I posted before, and got no respose, so I'll go at it again....
I guess I'm getting tired of listening to only four bars of music per tune. I wonder how much producers and hip hop artisit actually know about music nowadays. I would think that even if the artist doens't know much about music, they would at least learn to play an instrument or something, so they wont be restricted to sampling someone else's music. The standards in this music have gotten ridiculously too low, making it hard for those who are really trying to make MUSIC. Hip Hop listeners have been spoon - fed for too long. It's time fore a change... - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

i think why u didnt get much of a response the first time is cuz so many people on this site believe the same its kind of a given and obvious. i agree with u wholheartedly, this is why i got into jazz


"A seeker after Truth must be so humble as to the dust under his feet could crush him"- Mohandas K. Gandhi

"If a man steps on my toes, I'll step on his"- El-Hajj Malik Shabazz

"Cuz we on the same frequency/if not change the dial get on it!" -Mos Def

>I wonder how much producers and
>hip hop artisit actually know
>about music nowadays. I would
>think that even if the
>artist doens't know much about
>music, they would at least
>learn to play an instrument
>or something, so they wont
>be restricted to sampling someone
>else's music.

Hahaha!! Fam.....who are you listening to these days? You think Primo, Jay, and Pete don't know music?? They're talentless because they sample? Maybe I'm reading too much into your post, but you GOTTA have TONS of musical knowledge to do what these cats do on the boards.

Kyle

"Yo...on The Amen, Corner I stood, lookin at my former hood. Felt the spirit in the wind, knew my friend was gone for good. Threw dirt on the casket, the hurt, I couldn't mask it
Mixin down emotions, struggle I hadn't mastered. I coreograph seven steps to heaven. And hell, waiting to exhale and make the bread leavened. Veteran of a cold war It's Chica-I-go for. What I know or, what's known. So some days I take the bus home, just to touch home. From the crib I spend months gone. Sat by the window with a clutched dome listenin' to shorties cuss long. Young girls with weak minds, but they butt strong. Tried to call, or at least beep the Lord, but didn't have a touch-tone
It's a dog-eat-dog world, you gotta mush on. Some of this land I must own
Outta the city, they want us gone Tearin' down the 'jects creatin plush homes. My circumstance is between Cabrini and Love Jones. Surrounded by hate, yet I love home. Ask my God how he thought travellin the world sound Found it hard to imagine he hadn't been past downtown. It's deep, I heard the city breathe in its sleep. Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep. Deep, I heard my man breathe in his sleep. Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep"--Common

DO you have to know musical knowledge or technical?

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

When it drops you'll be happy....




But I swallow my pride and let that nonsense die. Because I'm positive it seems that negative dies.

"iamrecogninzingthatthevoi
ceinsidemyheadisurgingm
etobemyselfandneverfollow
someoneelse..." - Q-Tip

The current music scene is based on laziness, no one wants to push the envelope, they just wanna get paid...

All these cats(artists and producers-I use those terms loosely)are scared of losing their radio audience...

Pussies...

*******
allwedoiswindimoto.tumblr.com
www.windimoto.com

The Words - Audible Silence
coming soon to mp3.com

.

*******
allwedoiswindimoto.tumblr.com
www.windimoto.com

Someday my friend Keon Mill's music will be heard on the radio. i know none of you all know about him, but i need to get a link to some of his beats. they are all kind of simplistic, but pretty bangin, and best of all, MOBILE. he played me a song he didnt like, with a crazy piano loop, but the bass line kept going in all different directions. then about two minutes in, the piano completely dropped out and a synth came in!! after that, with the synth a new bass line came, which stayed for the rest of the song, as it flipped in between the piano and synth. damn it was so nice.

Irie,
Dub Spt

its all sig from here on

You see you cant please everyone, so ya, got to please yourself - Rick Nelson

You got soul, and everybody knows, that its alright - Curtis Mayfield

It aint what you know, it's what you feel. Don't worry bout bein right just be for real - Parliament

Some war with God, and some with the beast, some war for war but we war for peace - Dilated Peoples

Unity always begin with U-N-I - Dub Spt

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

fuck the rules.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

...Hip Hop 101:

Never forget where you came from.

Both true.

Alek

______________________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What?! What?!

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

would
>think that even if the
>artist doens't know much about
>music, they would at least
>learn to play an instrument
>or something,

Go back in time, and figure out why we weren't playing instruments like our elders. Then think about your statement.

Furthermore, if you do some research into our field as it stands, quite a number of artists and producers play instruments.

elitists...

k. orr
hip hop advocate
2 turntables and a mic fuck the rest

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

the f'ck i'm talkin bout right there!

---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

I say this in reference to your statement about 4 bars loops. Would you prefer it if Hip Hop groups started sounding like Yes, Genesis or Todd Rungren's Utopia? I told you the last time you posted this elitist bullshit,neither Jimi Hendrix or Louis Armstrong possesed any "musical knowledge" were they "spoon feeding" their audiences?


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

History shows that hiphop was always based on sample beats and breaks from songs looped, if you will, on turn tables. How many different times has a James Brown beat been sampled. I think PRimo and Pete Rock are masters at melodies. Thats the beauty of hiphop, making something out of nothing. Thats the history of our people.

both hendrix and armstrong were essentially self-taught (though hendrix had some lessons from friends early on), but that doesn't mean they had no musical knowledge. listen to louis sing a solo. that man OBVIOUSLY knows the theory behind what he's doing.

before he died jimi was leaning towards various concepts of jazz composition. he wasn't "lucky" and he wasn't merely "natural." jimi knew DAMN well how to stack thirds and build suspensions, how to change modes to fit chord voicings, etc.

to all those screaming "2 turntables and a mic," i support that foundation and i think there's nothing wrong with maintaining it, but shit can change, and i don't care HOW long you been around, if you wanna say that something's not true to hiphop because it's not 2 turntables and a mic, you're only fooling yourself. this IS the roots website, after all.

personally, my complaint is with the laziness in production i hear in a lot of hiphop these days, especially in swizz. i don't wanna hate, but every swizz track is thin drums, busy hat, basic single note melody that PRECISELY matches the poorly sung hook. what, motherfucker never heard of harmony? counterpoint? pete rock uses both of them and i dare ANYBODY to tell me swizz is more hiphop than pete.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

Thank you twinky...

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

What? indeed. my essertion that Jimi Hendrix and Louis Armstrong didn't have "musical knowledge" is fact. They may have been able to play music with a virtuosity that would suggest some theoretical know how but the fact is that neither of them could read or write music in standard western notation.None of these concepts apply to hip hop anyway so there is no point in discussing them, I was simply trying to prove a point.


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

you sound small-minded.

wes montgomery also didn't read standard musical notation before he began playing guitar and indeed he may never have learned it.

but all of these men understand incredibly complex musical concepts. just because they don't read music (though the assertion that they didn't is only half-true) doesn't mean they don't have a great grasp of the intricacies of music theory. they had great ears, but they processed things according to theory, whether they had significant demonstrable knowledge or not.

now, re: the half-truth, true, neither jimi nor louis were formally trained. but after playing with other musicians for several years (especially louis) both had some level of competency with western musical notation.

are you a musician yourself? it seems that you're bringing prejudices to your analysis of this question.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

>you sound small-minded.
>
I don't see how, but if that is your opinion...

>wes montgomery also didn't read standard
>musical notation before he began
>playing guitar and indeed he
>may never have learned it.
>
>but all of these men understand
>incredibly complex musical concepts.
>just because they don't read
>music (though the assertion that
>they didn't is only half-true)
>doesn't mean they don't have
>a great grasp of the
>intricacies of music theory.
>they had great ears, but
>they processed things according to
>theory, whether they had significant
>demonstrable knowledge or not.
>
>now, re: the half-truth, true, neither
>jimi nor louis were formally
>trained. but after playing
>with other musicians for several
>years (especially louis) both had
>some level of competency with
>western musical notation.
>

Dog I hope you are not misunderstanding the point that I am trying to prove. I am in no way discrediting the music that Louis and Jimi created simply because they had little or no knowledge of western theory. What I am saying is that their music is still brilliant regardless of this. Hip Hop producers often create brilliant works of music without knowledge of musical theory the same way Jimi and Louis Armstrong did, that is the point that I was trying to make

>are you a musician yourself?
>it seems that you're bringing
>prejudices to your analysis of
>this question.

Yes I am a musician, but I don't see how I am being prejudiced at all. I am in no way trying to say that the knowledge of (or lack of) musical theory either validates or invalidates the music that a person creates. No disrespect but maybe you should go back and read what I wrote initially, because I am having a hard time seeing what we are disagreeing about.


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

your point is well noted, but you dont' seem to have your facts straight. despite their lack of formal training, louis AND jimi BOTH had a real understanding of western theory. that they didn't is something of a myth perpetuated by those who revere them with a cult-like status. jimi may not have graduated from berklee, but he certainly knew what a 7/#9 chord was and that he could rock a dorian figure over it, how to substitute in a I-IV-V progression, and what a 3-on-2 polyrhythm was. he followed his ears but by the time he died he KNEW what he was doing and why it worked.

louis likewise followed his ears but louis knew that chords were built by stacking thirds and that as a singer, instrumentalist, and overall soloist, he had to grab certain notes because they were within the chords he wanted to accent, or because they would alter or color those chords.

now, some of my initial post was directed towards k_orr as well and i should have pointed that out, but as you can see, i made that post at some ungodly hour when i should have been sleeping, and i hope you'll forgive my carelessness. i don't think we're at odds here, i just think that you're ignoring some pertinent information in your discussion of the subject.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

>your point is well noted, but
>you dont' seem to have
>your facts straight. despite
>their lack of formal training,
>louis AND jimi BOTH had
>a real understanding of western
>theory.
>
>i just think
>that you're ignoring some pertinent
>information in your discussion of
>the subject.
>

I understand where you are comming from. My initial point is that a grasp of theory be it western or any theory for that matter, is meaningless when dealing with a musicians proficientcy at his/her craft. I think that my naming of Jimi and Louis has detracted from this point. From what I understood neither Hendrix or Armstrong could read or notate music at some point in their careers as musicians.I used them as examples regardless of whether or not they could "hear" what they were doing on or if they knew why it worked. If I am incorrect then I apologize maybe I should have used other examples. My knowledge of theory (and believe me I'm no Debussy) has helped me a great deal in terms of creating my own compositions, but the point that I wanted to make was that theory is not an essential part of music making.


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

yes, I think theory is a very essential part of creating music. Of course there are those who don't know this and that...It is a stepping stool for those who don't know... I didn' tknow it at first, and now that i've learned it my compositional skills have grown. There are definitly folks that are extremely and don't know theory. I think knowing theory would take them just one step beyond... It sure couldn't hurt. - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

LOL!!! I graduated from Berklee.... lol

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

what kind of one- or two-year programs do they have? i go to swarthmore right now, i'm a junior so if all goes well i'll have my degree by spring '03. i've been kicking around the idea of doing a compressed study track at some place like berklee because i want to work in sound engineering so i can hopefully move into production, etc. do you know if i could do something like that in a short program, no more than 3 or 4 semesters, as something AFTER college?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

you coould possible get a diploma from them in two years in music engineering and production... that progam is a hard one at Berklee though... - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

on tour by then--dont sweat it




just having some fun today

http://myspace.com/139003080
http://www.last.fm/user/micheleqj/
http://myspace.com/alluswe
http://myspace.com/fermentedspirits
http://www.last.fm/music/Alluswe

neither Jimi
>Hendrix or Louis Armstrong possesed
>any "musical knowledge"

Its clear by that statement you dont know what the fuck youre talking about




SheRise
AIM carmel3494 say your okp

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>neither Jimi
>>Hendrix or Louis Armstrong possesed
>>any "musical knowledge"
>
>Its clear by that statement you
>dont know what the fuck
>youre talking about
>
How profound I thought I'd only find informed responses like that in General Discussion.


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

get ready for example.

polyrhtyhmatic with a big fat boom.

me.
http://newelement.org/frankie

----------------------------------------
www.fwmj.co
@fwmj

just lookin out 4 ya
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
*please place cliched phrase or quote here*

also: put yer fingers in the swirly tub...stop typing for about a week. - illmeta. ha ha. he said swiirrrrly
Ignorance is an issue irrespective of economic class. - janey

(disheartened) back to the drawing board..... - me

(disenchanted) i quit..... - me

"Let me get this straight. We're behind the other class, so we're going to catch up to them by going SLOWER than them? That's cukoo!" - Bart Simpson quoted by REDeye

Shimmy's thoughts on God & religion- Its all just stories, man's way of trying to describe this here thing called life.
Creates heaven to convince himself he won't just end up being eaten by worms in the ground.
Creates the devil to explain his behavior when he does something heinous.
Plain and simple. - Shimmy

Take off my glasses and let my eyes be independant of me. - OrangeLoni

I have a headache and wish to cause some measure of confusion since i cannot share my pain with you all. - Marla

columbine kids get balloons, flowers and a huge concert with amy grant..."urban" school shootings get an extra gang unit hired. almost makes you lose hope don't it. - thepreacher

Why would anyone listen to what you consider "the truth" when it doesn't sound any different from what you consider "lies." Why would one chose to believe in system based on hollow rewards and sadistic punishment meeted out by a egomaniac in the sky, just because it's an option. If God want's heaven stocked with his folks, he needs to cut all this shy bullshit and set up a press conference. - mcbadfeet

____________________

be Good.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2n8vg29.png
(by a guy named Wes Whaley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/8779317/Light-paintings-by-Wes-Whaley.html )

80 words a minute does that to you sometimes

me.
http://newelement.org/frankie

----------------------------------------
www.fwmj.co
@fwmj

i'd like to see YOU match up beats that are in the same (or adjusted to be) tempos.....time signatures........keys.......and that WORK together and that are funky... that takes SKILL.

when you say knowledge of music. what do you mean? do you mean the ability to make a phat beat? or do you mean the ability to identify keysigs/modes/chord changes/read music....? PLEASE be more specific.

much of hiphop is about seeing just how creatively one can be in recycling something.

besides...there is lots of hiphop out there (esp. live band hiphop) that has a four (or even ONE) bar groove.... that SUBTLELY CHANGEs... drops...hits... a lotta times it's about nuance

why do u think that it is necessary for a producer to learn an instrument to avoid sampling? sampling is an important part of hiphop...and requires incredible patience, attention to detail and experience...

PEACE,
igors_groove

“I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude.”
--Bashir Shakur/Me’Shell NdegeOcello

"The revolution will not be televised."
--Gil Scott Heron

link:myspace.com/blackblondiemusic/|BLACK BLONDIE]

I'm saying I don't think most cat's can do something without a recording... from scratch! I do not think sampling is an important aspect of hip - hop. There are a few artist that have already proved that... anything else? - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

why does it matter?
obviously if soooooo many cats cant do something without a recodring then sampling IS an important aspect of hiphop!


“I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude.”
--Bashir Shakur/Me’Shell NdegéOcello

"The revolution will not be televised."
--Gil Scott Heron

link:myspace.com/blackblondiemusic/|BLACK BLONDIE]

Its one thing to be a purist and say hip hop started wit 2 turntables & a mic, sampling is an art-live instrument dont belong in hp hop, weve gotta stay true to the roots etcc.. but the other part of me yearns for the growth that developes in any serious art form. Its only natural to progres & expand, the addage "a rolling stone gathers no moss" is true indeed. When cats stop advancin in anything it becomes stagnent. You are either progresion or regresion their is no standin still.

Hip hop for the most part is regresion BUT (a big BUT)I posted a while about the past 6 yrs being the Production era. Meaning a lotta advances are being made in production techniques that are being overlooked but in years to come we will look back on & be like "how did I mis that". This Production era is fueled by the cats that are getting heavily into music theory, history etc...


----------------------------------------
Write rhymes dureing the break of nightline/Ted Koppel
Set Mc's up so the topple
Wobble like a deflected spiral or needle to warped vinal
Viral like contaminated spinal
Fluid untapped/lungs lined wit Gortex-heat trap my raps
The golden age of MCin is done we whats left of..
unrealeased,unsigned comin out wit a best of..
vocal engravements available for any festive occasion
roughing out the smooth spots wit maximim abrasion'militant like Malasians and Indonesions in Cleveland
It't the same 1 God we believe in without seein like internal breathin
relievin Mc's on the night shift
mic is ny nightstick
voice pepper spray get stabbed wit a bic rounded
didnt say stick cuz I ain't like the way it sounded......

Algebra of the Iron Triangle-D.E.F.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

Check out Heiroglyphics' "Off the Record" on third eye vision. it's not done by their band or anything but they rhyme over a jazz break. pretty dope.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere- Martin Luther King, Jr.

some of yaw'll got me wrong.. I love the things that some of these cats do today. I love Jaydee, Pete Rock and all these other cats. I think cats need to be alot more original now. Sampling is cool and everything, but why cant a cat sit down at a piano and make something.... more than four bars? How long do you think it takes to do that. I'm a jazz musician from philly that grew up and still listens to alot of music today I'm not trying to take anything away from these cats... I just now more can be done. Look at the history of black music and look at what's going on now. It's sad! Even R&B is nothing but four bars looped...No Bridge... JUST THE SAME BARS LOOPED! HOW ABOUT SOME EFFORT? Not saying that's bad all the time, but does everyone have to do it? Does every artist have to be the same and just sample? Do you think that even 70% or 50% percent of the artist out there know anything about music? Try again... Really listen to these "Tracks" again... without the vocalist and tell me how many of them took any effort! In the meantime, check out Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Roy Ayers, James Brown.. The Roots.... C'mon... wake up yaw'll - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

are you new here?

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

tell em why u mad son!

for real though ease off him even though it's been beaten to death. It does deserve merit.
----------------------------------------
Write rhymes dureing the break of nightline/Ted Koppel
Set Mc's up so the topple
Wobble like a deflected spiral or needle to warped vinal
Viral like contaminated spinal
Fluid untapped/lungs lined wit Gortex-heat trap my raps
The golden age of MCin is done we whats left of..
unrealeased,unsigned comin out wit a best of..
vocal engravements available for any festive occasion
roughing out the smooth spots wit maximim abrasion'militant like Malasians and Indonesions in Cleveland
It't the same 1 God we believe in without seein like internal breathin
relievin Mc's on the night shift
mic is ny nightstick
voice pepper spray get stabbed wit a bic rounded
didnt say stick cuz I ain't like the way it sounded......

Algebra of the Iron Triangle-D.E.F.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

Who are you???

Kyle

"Yo...on The Amen, Corner I stood, lookin at my former hood. Felt the spirit in the wind, knew my friend was gone for good. Threw dirt on the casket, the hurt, I couldn't mask it
Mixin down emotions, struggle I hadn't mastered. I coreograph seven steps to heaven. And hell, waiting to exhale and make the bread leavened. Veteran of a cold war It's Chica-I-go for. What I know or, what's known. So some days I take the bus home, just to touch home. From the crib I spend months gone. Sat by the window with a clutched dome listenin' to shorties cuss long. Young girls with weak minds, but they butt strong. Tried to call, or at least beep the Lord, but didn't have a touch-tone
It's a dog-eat-dog world, you gotta mush on. Some of this land I must own
Outta the city, they want us gone Tearin' down the 'jects creatin plush homes. My circumstance is between Cabrini and Love Jones. Surrounded by hate, yet I love home. Ask my God how he thought travellin the world sound Found it hard to imagine he hadn't been past downtown. It's deep, I heard the city breathe in its sleep. Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep. Deep, I heard my man breathe in his sleep. Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep"--Common

Why expect anything out of hip hop that has not previously exist within it's traditions? The melodic and rhythmic changes in hip hop are in the vocals the instrumental is simply a basic rhythmic background that exists only to support the vocalist. I must have had my eyes poked out dog cuz I'm really having a hard time seeing your point. You expecting hip hop beats to have chord changes is like me listening to Coltrane and saying "I like it but how come he didn't use any synthesizers?" That is as silly as you thinking that there should be chord changes in rap songs.

Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

1)"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
2)"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"

On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

Have you listen to EVERYTHING that Trane did.... he kept growing musically throughout his whole life... Unless you really know about 'Trane, please don't even mention him... it makes you look worst... Guess what 'Trane was dealing with berfore he died! - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

>Have you listen to EVERYTHING that
>Trane did.... he kept growing
>musically throughout his whole life...

Thanks for the music history lesson.

>Unless you really know about
>'Trane, please don't even mention
>him... it makes you look
>worst...

...and you not knowing how to spell worse doesn't make you look bad?

Guess what 'Trane was
>dealing with berfore he died!
>
I would have to assume by this statement that you are saying that Coltrane was dealing with synths before he died. You have officially missed my point. I could have said anything "how come Coltrane didn't play rock", "how come there aren't any big band/swing arrangements on Ascension?" etc. The point still remains that I would be foolish to expect something from a single musician or a group of musicians that they have not traditionally touched on. The same thing goes with "musical knowledge" in hip hop.


Random Quotes from Dub Reggae pionner Lee "Scratch Perry"

On Race:

"If Michael Jackson was black he would be on my right hand still...I gave him to Satan for changing from black to pink"
"I am black, but I'm not even black anymore"
On religion:

1)"God is black...look at the sun when it casts a shadow. That's the spirit the spirit is black"
2)"I am Jesus Christ!"
3)"God's soup is water"
4)(On Peter Tosh)"him say him don't believe in Jesus Christ, but when the first gun shot got him, him say "Jesus Christ!"

On sex:

1)"I am a sexpert! God loves sex"
2)What I like to see is naked girls...my plan for the future is to see lots of naked girls"

Random Quotes:

1)"When I shit my enemies cry, when I speak they die"
2)"All people who love my music will be fully supported. Them that don't love my music shall sureley perish"
3)"I am the internet"
4)"Bellvue can't help me man"
5)"I discovered that teachers could teach me nothing...I refused to waste my time listening"
6)"Politicians are saps"
7)"I am not here to teach Bob Marley. I'm here to teach the universe"
8)"I art the future"
9)"Without music you are all dead"
10)"Their mistake is my irish sweepstakes!"

A whole lot of producers have talent. Timberland, Primo, Pete Rock, RzA, Dre, Even Mannie Fresh has talent. you can't be serious. All of these guys have made songs that don't have four measure loop. And many of these guys mix and arrange songs, and coach vocals.

Puffy got rich by taking hip-hop backwards to when rappers where basically rapping over the instrumentals of hit songs.
Why innovate if you can get paid to stagnate?
Swizz does not sample much but his idea of music is limited to harmony(sing with the melody) but did that stop him from being a millionaire? No.
DJ Shadow might be missing out on his Vitamin D, locked up in his basement cutting rare drum loops to shreds. Pretty Boy will simply loop a classical song and give it to Nas(Hate Me Now).
Who will get more paid?
The masses are content with mediocrity, so why should innovate?
We must realise that okayplayer-ish people are in the minority.
Will.I.Am just dropped an album with almost no samples. Will it make it to radio? Maybe...but not because he played the Moog live. If it hits, it will simply be for being "phat". The average listener does not really care about all that shit.

SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
"I'm not looking...forward to seeing
him"- Snoop on Suge's release.
understatement of the year
**************************
NE LOVE/ LOVE
(THE HICE IS URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a
registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

RIP JDILLA
THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

But.... if the average listener got used to hearing music that was far more original that what we mostly hear today, do you think he/she wouldn't appreciate it?

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

maybe not... listeners have gotten very complacent and lazy. i've seen people actively reject things that sound too "different"

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

One of my really good friends constantly disses my tastes as too"organic." He consciously stays away from anything that looks or sounds like Erykah Badu. He hates shows where they use live instruments. He thinks Afroman made a good song but I'm just too organic to appreciate it because I said it was a stupid song that was only funny the first time.
let's face it...the average listener today is musically unadventorous. The only producer who can take them out of their village is Timbaland and even then he better have a catchy chorus or they're not coming for the journey.
And we have a whole new generation coming up that was raised on Jah Rule and The Hot Boys and lyrics like "Players they wanna play and ballers they wanna ball..." They love this shit.
At it's most primitive state, music was supposed to make the cave dwellers shake thier asses or scare the animals way. jah rule manages to do both so why should I hate his rodent looking ass?
I use music for much more than that but I believe you can't force "better" music on people. For the most part, it's still a business and Trackmasters probably have better cribs than your "eight bar and then bridge and then key change" producer.

SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
"I'm not looking...forward to seeing
him"- Snoop on Suge's release.
understatement of the year
**************************
NE LOVE/ LOVE
(THE HICE IS URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a
registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

RIP JDILLA
THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

and I'm talking about people who are "smart"!

you'd think that all these folks are just some gold tooth-having, uneducated bamas, but I know knowledgeable people with expansive worldviews and reasonable musical knowledge… and they just prefer Joe to D'Angelo because it's "more meaningful"

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>and I'm talking about people who
>are "smart"!
>
yep. "smart" in quotations for sure. I'm talking about cats who can absorb Genetics and Quan Physics and go on for post grad and all that(shit which I can't do). So, it's not that they lack some "intelligence" in the accepted form of the word.
They just ain't feeling that "other" stuff and thier black asses will not be in attendance at the next "progressive" show. And they will have original copies of Nutty Professor Soundtrack, parts I and II
The masses have spoken and they just want to shake their ass and if possible scare off a few animals.

SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
"I'm not looking...forward to seeing
him"- Snoop on Suge's release.
understatement of the year
**************************
NE LOVE/ LOVE
(THE HICE IS URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a
registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

RIP JDILLA
THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

lol... they really DO have both them joints!

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>The masses are content with mediocrity,
>so why should innovate?
>We must realise that okayplayer-ish people
>are in the minority.

You make a good point. But I also can see where Jaleel is coming from. Bottom line is that there has to be a medium I think. For instance on one side of the scale you have stuff like YNQ. The average head can't digest that type of material. On the other you have stuff like "Livin' It Up" or Petey Pablo. Which is strictly for cat's to bob they head. I'm not dissin any artist by the way, just making a point.

Hip-hop has always been a music to relate to, so the very essence of a "hip-hop" records should be made for the listener. That doesn't mean that it can't be musical. It also doesn't mean that it can't grow beyond loops and beat breaks, as various cats have demonstrated that it can. I have to give love to Jay-Dee because I think this is where he comes in. Jay has a way of taking theory and musical compostition and making it relateable to the average head. He uses live instruments and makes them sound sampled, he also uses electronic equipment and flips ish with it. I think he does a good job of making that balance. (If you think he simply loops everything, give it another listen, especially W2D stuff)

I think we will see more of this. I think the question really is...Will it be popular? That, I don't think any of us can answer, it goes in tandem with the whole artist/label fiasco. If YNQ was in heavy rotation does that mean it would sell a million joints? Is it even meant to be that kind of music?

I think that what Jaleel is asking for is available with more to come (ie. YNQ, Jay-Dee, Roots, WillIAm, Com, Badu, Jill, etc..). It's just a matter of, will we know when it hits if it's not advertised or made available.






_____________________________________________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

Even the most musically "ignorant" cats I've come across always admit to being familiar with the Roots. Some of them like certain songs, some just don't feel them at all.
So, it's not always marketing. Common crossed over with "The Light". Every cat I know was feeling it, but guess what? They still did not rush out to buy LWFC. One girl who did buy LWFC, admitted to me that "It only has like five good songs on it." and she was being honest. I had to agree with her. It only had five songs that I think will appeal to her taste. I like LWFC but I've only listened to that long winded intro, in it's entirety only three times.
So lets not blame promotion, some songs got less play than "The Light" or "You Got Me"(Ironically neither song represents the level of either artists artistry but are more like radio compromises) and the album still sold well.
Nelly did not receive that much promotion in my area but his nursery rhymes and pedestrian beats caught on pretty quick in the clubs and on radio it was being requested.
Like I said, they simply "prefer" this stuff.

SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
"I'm not looking...forward to seeing
him"- Snoop on Suge's release.
understatement of the year
**************************
NE LOVE/ LOVE
(THE HICE IS URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a
registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

RIP JDILLA
THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

I'm not blaming promotion, as we see with Jill and Nelly, as you said. Although, I think it does play a part as with any product/service. Like I said in the last line of my post. I think what he is looking for is available, just a matter of if he is aware of it of not.

The point you make about The Roots and Common is funny though. I've only heard of a few people that have actually copped a Roots album. Most of my peeps have never copped Common nor care to. But if you pop it in on a road trip or something they feel it. Weird. It's kinda like a "fiend" it they don't get that immediate high off of the music, then they just don't feel it. No way to really address that. Even with cats like Primo. Primo can definitely hit you with bangers, but Gangstarr album sales are less than impressive. That's Ill....

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

>We must realise that okayplayer-ish people
>are in the minority.


The average listener
>does not really care about
>all that shit.

Well put,dog.The masses are not 'heads',never have been,never will be.

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

one thing to keep in mind is that hip-hop was/is "rebellious" music, a youth movement if you will. It is now getting to the point were the pioners are in their late 30's-40's & the next generation are becoming fathers & approaching 30. Their will be an older audience but this art form won't stray to far from its roots. Keeping that in mind how many of the hip hop core audience(lower class urban youth AND middle class white kids) are into "advanced music"?

Hip hop will expand at the rate of its participants. Me personaly I am trying to advance what hip hop is or as we know now it but when I was 20 I looked at it a whole diff way. Not only have my musical tastes change as I have gotten more mature but also my moral,social, spiritual ettiquete.

Have we gotten lazy in out music yes, have the standards lowered-I think so. But at the same token lets not look for Beethoven style hip hop. Elderly folk, talking proper, playing to a seated audience.....I see at as meeting in the middle you will see older heads but its essence will be the same.

Hip hop has aged but not neccesarily matured.
----------------------------------------
Write rhymes dureing the break of nightline/Ted Koppel
Set Mc's up so the topple
Wobble like a deflected spiral or needle to warped vinal
Viral like contaminated spinal
Fluid untapped/lungs lined wit Gortex-heat trap my raps
The golden age of MCin is done we whats left of..
unrealeased,unsigned comin out wit a best of..
vocal engravements available for any festive occasion
roughing out the smooth spots wit maximim abrasion'militant like Malasians and Indonesions in Cleveland
It't the same 1 God we believe in without seein like internal breathin
relievin Mc's on the night shift
mic is ny nightstick
voice pepper spray get stabbed wit a bic rounded
didnt say stick cuz I ain't like the way it sounded......

Algebra of the Iron Triangle-D.E.F.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

How can you say that hip ho can't evolve.... or stray from it's roots? Look at all the other genre's of music. Can you tell me one that hasn't evolved? Look at Jazz, classical, R&B, rock? C'mon man.. there's no way that you can say that... I mean... lokk how far hip - hop has come.... what I'm saying is that these cats are making $$$$$$ now and need to get off of there asses! - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

How can you say that hip ho can't evolve.... or stray from it's roots

How did u deduce thatfrom what

----------------------------------------
Write rhymes dureing the break of nightline/Ted Koppel
Set Mc's up so the topple
Wobble like a deflected spiral or needle to warped vinal
Viral like contaminated spinal
Fluid untapped/lungs lined wit Gortex-heat trap my raps
The golden age of MCin is done we whats left of..
unrealeased,unsigned comin out wit a best of..
vocal engravements available for any festive occasion
roughing out the smooth spots wit maximim abrasion'militant like Malasians and Indonesions in Cleveland
It't the same 1 God we believe in without seein like internal breathin
relievin Mc's on the night shift
mic is ny nightstick
voice pepper spray get stabbed wit a bic rounded
didnt say stick cuz I ain't like the way it sounded......

Algebra of the Iron Triangle-D.E.F.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

...I said. I didn't say it cant evolve or wont but how far. just cuz I personally like to hear progresive hip hop I don;t think all of it should be. You may be new so u havn;t heard my numerous rants about hip hop mimicing jazz.

I just dont think the whole hip hop world is as evolved as the small "advanced/intelligent" hip hop popu;ace would have you believe.
----------------------------------------
Write rhymes dureing the break of nightline/Ted Koppel
Set Mc's up so the topple
Wobble like a deflected spiral or needle to warped vinal
Viral like contaminated spinal
Fluid untapped/lungs lined wit Gortex-heat trap my raps
The golden age of MCin is done we whats left of..
unrealeased,unsigned comin out wit a best of..
vocal engravements available for any festive occasion
roughing out the smooth spots wit maximim abrasion'militant like Malasians and Indonesions in Cleveland
It't the same 1 God we believe in without seein like internal breathin
relievin Mc's on the night shift
mic is ny nightstick
voice pepper spray get stabbed wit a bic rounded
didnt say stick cuz I ain't like the way it sounded......

Algebra of the Iron Triangle-D.E.F.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

I think that there is a difference between having a skill to match up and cut up already composed sounds to create a song and creating everything basically from scratch. One is more of a techincal thing to me, and the other is more of a creation thing. Both of them have their place in hip hop, but I think that more emphasis needs to be put on making some true original shit. I have done both, but I am more impressed with myself when I make up my "own" shit.

Kao=Your favorite baby mama's favorite baby daddy!
----------------------------------------
kaorazen@hotmail.com
AIM, Yahoo IM, & MSN IM:Kaorazen
----------------------------------------
http://members.blackplanet.com/Kaorazen/
----------------------------------------
KRUCIBLE KULTURE MP3s http://www.rapstation.com/artists/artist.php3?artist_id=9397

------------------------------
Golden Ratio?

EVERWAR.
...in time the universe will bleed...

http://www.facebook.com/kaorazen

>I would think that even if the artist doens't know much about >music, they would at least learn to play an instrument or >something, so they wont be restricted to sampling someone >else's music."

But isn't what the artists are doing now anyway????? Well, your Swizz Beats and nem........

The downside of sampling is that you'd have to pay someone loot for use of the sample if it isn't clevely disguised. Since there isn't many producers that can do that with the proper technique this days, the next alternative would be to replay the sample yourself, saving a little cash, and giving light to one's 'suposed' creativity....

Unfortunately, it takes talent and hard work to sound nice with an instrument. It would take years to become adaquate on a Piano. But now, anyone can press on average about 5 Piano keys on a synthesizer and make a song, and it qualifies as being "Dat hot shit". No chords, no progressions, just exactly what it is; hot shit.

I can't really say that I would want to assasinate every garbage artist with my whole heart. Even If Puffy came down with Anthrax right now, I'd be concerned, because I'm a loving person. But you're right Jaleel, these that don't convey the slighted sense of musical talent should hang it up immediately. But it's the cash that keeps them comming back for more and more. But don't be surprised when musical taste reverts back to the ones that deserve it the most. The media and public have a reputation for being wishy washy (I bet ya'll 4 months after this War Business is over, you won't see an American Flag in sight). So for all the producers, musicians, artists, and whoever I missed, we all should get back to making the music that best represents themselves, not the inconsistant public that will turn on you in less than a second(you remember what happened to Hammer).

And for what? A dollar?????

You know, Hip Hop has grown in to something much more significant that a dollar. It's only too ironic that Hip Hop is all about that damn dollar these days.......


Newer material is on the site.......
http://www.rapstation.com/artists/artist.php3?artist_id=13953

AIM IM: Nautilus Strong


Love Infinite.........



ObsidianBlue@hotmail.com

--
http://www.obsidianblue.com

http://obsidianblue.bandcamp.com

http://soundcloud.com/obsidianblue

https://meridian2.bandcamp.com/

Love Infinite...

I'm a musician & I say that in the whole sense of the word. I've played music all my Life & majored in music in college. To be honest, I feel both sides of this arguement. From a musical stand point alot of the things you hear on the radio are "boring" when you've been listening to Coltrane's "Giant Steps" which has 2 new chord changes every 2 beats. But at the same time I'm learning not to be a "jazz-snob". I recently got a chance to sit in the studio w/ a hip-hop producer. There is skill involved in producing hip-hop. I sat in the studio & watched this cat cut and splice a sample & make a 5 second loop into a 4 minute song...now that's amazing. As well, I've also sat in a club & watched a jazz musician improvise...creating new music that's never been heard...on the spot & in the moment. My thing is you need contrast to make this world interesting. When I feel like hearing a song w/ 2 chords I can turn on the radio or for that matter I can put on "So What" by Miles Davis. It's all music.


"It took me 20 years of study & practice to work up to what I wanted to play in this performance. How can she expect to listen for 5 minutes & understand it?"
-Miles Davis

"Servant or slave,monarch or monster, what has money got to do with music"
-Duke Ellington


"you can improve as a player by improving as a person"
-John Coltrane


"keep doin what you doin...in 30 years they'll catch on"
-Thelonious Monk

>I recently got a chance
>to sit in the studio
>w/ a hip-hop producer. There
>is skill involved in producing
>hip-hop. I sat in the
>studio & watched this cat
>cut and splice a sample
>& make a 5 second
>loop into a 4 minute
>song...now that's amazing.

This is a good point. I actually left and had to come back and repsond to this. People seem to have forgotten that sampling is an art. The ability to chop/loop/filter etc.. Is not an easy task. Sure with modern software and samplers it is somewhat easy to loop a sample, but the way Pete, Primo, Prince Paul, etc.. Have flipped samples shows that there is an art to it. MPC's, SP12's, and ASR's are instruments just the same as a sax or drums. To learn how to utilize the functions takes time, and then to develop your own style and sound is another thing. I think most have forgotten to appreciate the value of the artform.

One of things I like to do is chop down to single notes. Say a note from a piano or vibes, manipulate the sound and use that note to create a completely original song. For me this is a challenge and also great deal of fun. I like that I can take a sound and completely flip it. I also like the fact that I can sample a complete set of vibes from single notes and the sounds maintain integrity but also have added features from other instruments in the background and such. This is what I like to do. That to me is an artform and as such I try and develop chords and progression and what-not.

There are alot of cats trying to develop from a purely musical standpoint. I think the future holds alot of promise for hip-hop from a production standpoint. I think we will continue to see a standard set whereas hip-hop producers will have to know both sampled and acoustic/live to some degree, much like The Roots. This will become the de facto standard, because the listeners will become acustom to a certain sound, even from a commercial standpoint.
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subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

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subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

I'm sorry... but I cannot give the same credit to someone that takes music from someone else and tries to claim it as I would someone that sits down and creates something off the top of his head. If I say quoate something that someone els thought of, but only use maybe a sentence of a quote, does that mean that I created that quote now? Or.... say... I take a page out of a book and re-type it.... does that mean that I wrote that excerpt? Come one yaw'll get real. These artist are sitting down and studying.. coming up with original material, only to have some cat take it and claim it.... Being able to sample maybe be technical talent... but definitly not musical... a sampler is not a musical instrument. It doesn't create the music... it replays it!!! - J

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

I sorta agree with your sentiment but you really gotta be careful 'cause nothing can be "original".
Unless you are born in isolation from the world and then exposed to the piano later on in life, you cannot create TRULY original music.
Even young jazz cats know this, when they pick up the trumpet to compose they can't tell whether it's miles davis speaking or if it's them. Musicians are the best thieves in the world. They listen to alot of music and absorb it all like a sponge. But then they transform it into something that can sometimes sound "new".
How original was Fela for instance? He's one of the musicians that I respect the most but some of those polyrythms you shake your ass to have been in existence for centuries in the Yoruba musical tradition.
In this day and age, it is almost impossible to orginiate(ambient techno does not count )...you can improve on existing ideas but the musical foundation has already been built.
Mofos were thinking they discovered something new when they slowed down hip-hop breaks and called it trip-hop. Again...nothing new.
When I get on the keyboard to play a bassline, stylistically it's a toss between jaydee and fela stuff. Why? Because that's what I consider dope. That's what moves me.
I might not be directly biting but nevertheless it IS biting.
So in summary: "Original material" does not exist.
p.s. radio has never really been adventurous anyway. listen to the hits from the 70s. Most of them were "loopy" anyway. Only diff was that they used live instruments and sometimes had brief solos.

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THE ILLEST THAT EVER DID IT

unless your talking about using straight loops, your book typing arguement just doesnt hold up in this case. its a very different context.
unlike you, i think the sampler IS a musical instrument. i would say that it is similar to a keyboard. the only difference is that you have to load the sounds into it(you can do this with some keyboards) and you have an unlimited source of sounds... and you have more control over the sounds(chop, layer, filter, etc)



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"we put language in zoos to observe caged thought and toss peanuts and p funk at intellect. and motherfuckers think these are metaphors, i speak what i see, all words and worlds are metaphors of me" -saul williams
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>I'm sorry... but I cannot give
>the same credit to someone
>that takes music from someone
>else and tries to claim
>it as I would someone
>that sits down and creates
>something off the top of
>his head.

I have to say that everyone has a musical influence. I agree that improvisation is nice, but that does not necessarily make it superior to other forms of music. Most artist are inspired by other artist, from that inspiration comes ideas that one puts into their own style and form.

In terms of taking other music. We all do that in a since. If there was no Coltrane or Miles, you would draw you inspiration from some other artist to develop your own style. This is what is done in hip-hop in so many forms it's ridiculous. Influences from Soul, Jazz (all eras), Classical, Folk, World, etc....If this is not artistic I don't know what is.

>Come one yaw'll get
>real. These artist are sitting
>down and studying.. coming up
>with original material, only to
>have some cat take it
>and claim it

Once again because an artist studies music and become proficient does not make it good music or superior music. Getting back to the original point you made. You have to look at hip-hop for what it is. It is not Jazz or Classical. It's hip-hop and I personally see alot of development by various producers to expand in aspects of theory and composition. I'm excited when I listen to Jay Dee or Madlib (and there are others) because I see them pushin the envelope of hip-hop, not Jazz, but hip-hop.

>Being able
>to sample maybe be technical
>talent... but definitly not musical...
>a sampler is not a
>musical instrument. It doesn't create
>the music... it replays it!!!

Wha???? I take this one kinda personal. Because I sit my ASR (the ASR is a keyboard) for hours mulling over "original" tracks. I have tracks that I have created from single notes that I have sampled and played out chords. You would never be able to tell where I sampled from or even that I had sampled for that matter. I have tracks that I have created from sound disks that I have loaded and played out each and every instrument (ie drums, vibes, piano, synths, etc).

I would challenge you to sit behind one of these machines and attempt to make a track that is cohesive and sounds good. As I have appreciation for musicians that study, write and play instruments. I also appreciate hip-hop artist that sit behind these machines and sample, sequence, and filter.

As I have said in earlier posts. This music you are looking for in terms of hip-hop is there and from what I see there is alot of development to move from the standard 2 and 4 bar loops to more composition based music.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

>I'm sorry... but I cannot give
>the same credit to someone
>that takes music from someone
>else and tries to claim
>it as I would someone
>that sits down and creates
>something off the top of
>his head.


I feel you...I hear where you're coming from....BUT cats have been copying other cats as long as music's been around case in point...I'm a trumpet player....I like Jazz...let's just say I like to listen to Roy Hargrove...well at some point Roy liked to listen to Freddie Hubbard/Lee Morgan...& at some point Lee & Freddie were listening to Clifford Brown...& at some point Clifford was listening to Dizzy Gillespie...who was listening to Roy Eldridge...who listened to Louis Armstrong ...who listened to King Oliver...now with there being only 12 notes that I can play...what are my chances of sounding like or playing something that someone is the list has already played?





"we play music - to touch people. Make people happy. Inspire. It has nothing to do with hotel rooms being ready, flights being cancelled, long overnight bus or van rides, etc. People who pay money to hear us play don't want to hear about that. They just want to feel better when they hear us play. This is the number one thing I tell every young student I meet. Young musicians have a tendency to be too idealistic. Some older ones, too. Too wrapped up into who's the "hippest," etc. Utimately, the scales and solos we learn MUST be filtered into pure emotion. Break down the wall and let God play us"-Christian McBride

First of all there's a difference between being inspired.... We're all inspired by something. When I say original I mean taking some music from someone and just claiming it... THere's a big difference between being inspired and just taking something you like and sampling it.... Why sample someone's notes and try to make chords from it when you can just play a damn chord yourself.... that is... if you know chords...
I'm sorry... I don't want yaw'll to think that I hate hip - hop... because that's not true at all... I just could never give the same credit to the person that took four bars of someones music and repeated it that I would to the person that sat down and actually wrote something from scratch. What are you going to do when someone samples the same song you did... are you gonna say " hey - that's my music... Are you going to copyright something that doesn't belong to you? I challenge all those cats that are in this hip hop game to write something at a piano... with chords... no sampling maybe spend a week at it.. hopefully you'll see what I'm saying... get off your asses and learn something

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

>First of all there's a difference
>between being inspired.... We're all
>inspired by something. When I
>say original I mean taking
>some music from someone and
>just claiming it... THere's a
>big difference between being inspired
>and just taking something you
>like and sampling it....
>Why sample someone's notes and
>try to make chords from
>it when you can just
>play a damn chord yourself....
>that is... if you know
>chords...

C'mon man....the snobby stuff is going too far. Personally my appreciation is there equally for certain hip-hop producers. They are pushing the envelope of "hip-hop", not Jazz. I'm sure we can all find some Classical Snob that looks down upon jazz, matter of fact my piano teacher was kinda like that. I appreciate an artist that comes from the heart in any genre, you shouldn't look down upon it because it doesn't live up to your expectation of what you think it should be. That's bull.

> I'm sorry... I don't
>want yaw'll to think that
>I hate hip - hop...

Point taken...

>because that's not true at
>all... I just could never
>give the same credit to
>the person that took four
>bars of someones music and
>repeated it

This speaks to the point I keep trying to make. The stuff you are looking for is out there. Ofcourse at this point "commercial" stuff is watered down. Will that ever really change? Besides, how much airplay does Jazz get for that matter? What contemporary Jazz???

>I challenge all
>those cats that are in
>this hip hop game to
>write something at a piano...
>with chords... no sampling maybe
>spend a week at it..
>hopefully you'll see what I'm
>saying... get off your asses
>and learn something

Once again the snobbery has to stop. Because a person writes music does not mean it's going to be sweet. Simply because I write a piece doesn't qualify me amongst those with talent. Likewise, if I play ball at the local court doesn't mean I deserve to be in the NBA.

Just as you made your challenge. I will make mine, again. I challenge you to take this musical knowledge that you want to see in hip-hop and apply it. Use and MPC, ASR or Triton and compose a "Bangin'" hip-hop track with drums and all. I'm sure you will gain a new perspective as well.

As with you, I like to see the music evolve and grow. Me and my crew are moving into live instrumentation. Not to be a band, but to grow in our style of music. You ask, "Why sample someone's notes and try to make chords from it?". Try sampling a single note of a piano or a vibe, change the pitch, throw some effects on it, then you will see. Then try and develop chords from there. Once again it's just another perspective. It's called creativity.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

I'm not looking down on no one. Like I said... I love alot of the hip hop I hear today. I just wish there was more to it musically. I'd love to hear something different and it all sounds the same. How many artist can exist without a producer nowadays? Not many! I guess I'm giving up on this post and you guys... You just don't get it. I'm a jazz musician and I play in NY and Philly alot... When I look in the audience, I see hardly any of peer in the club. When I go play somewhere, there's no one else playing or serious about the music.. They all wanna be rappers or hip - hop artist.... I wonder why? What percentage of the cats out there do you think are really in it for the money?? Trust me yaw'll it's a very high one. I wonder how many cats would survive if there weren't samplers... how many people would still want to do it if they didn't have to depend on somene else for the music? I just don't want the music of our culture to get worst than most of it is. If you look at the history of our music, we've come a long way and done alot. There's still so more we could do. What would jazz be if Duke ellington didn't sit on his ass and coming up with something fresh? The same for Charlie Parker and John Coltrane.... Whatever yaw'll.. I'm out.... Who would James Brown or Marvin Gaye be if he just took someone else's music and sang over it... I doubt it would be the same... I'm tired of buying a cd and hearing something that was sampled from one of my favorite records.... and most of the time the original is sooo much better... Like I said.. I don't hate hip hop... i'm a big fan... I just want more.. something fresh... People are making soo much money that they think that the music it GREAAAT! But most of it is sad... I'm out...

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

I Feel where you are coming from better now. I agree that the music has to evolve. The point I'm making is that it is. Maybe you don't see it, but from a production perspective MANY producers are looking at it from your standpoint and taking it serious and developing original joints. This is my personal goal as a hip-hop producer, but at the same time there is a balance. I don't want to make stuff so far out that people can't relate. If I do that then I would go straight for an experimental album for headz to relate on that level. Kinda like the Madlib joint. To each his own. Keep developin' focus.

Peace

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

supposed to have a buncha changes up in it! Neither is funk for that matter. Seems like you're trying to look at hiphop with a kind of jazz sensibility.

nabi

Hater-ism Quotables

What kind of self respecting music snob would use a term like "hateration"? That's ludicrass!

"You're a hater" is the "I know you are but what am I?" of the new millenium.

__________
"Justice is really love in calculation. Justice is love correcting that which revolts against love..." - MLK

hip hop is what the artist makes it nabi.

http://www.okayplayer.com/content/view/5850/5/
http://www.myspace.com/jaleelshaw
http://www.jaleelshaw.com

do you really wanna hear someone rapping over changes? People wouls say it was some kinda spoken word piece. They'd say it wasn't "real hiphop" and try to lump it somewhere else like Saul Williams.
nabi

Hater-ism Quotables

What kind of self respecting music snob would use a term like "hateration"? That's ludicrass!

"You're a hater" is the "I know you are but what am I?" of the new millenium.

__________
"Justice is really love in calculation. Justice is love correcting that which revolts against love..." - MLK

Two peeps come to my mind: DJ SHADOW and the cat they call MADLIB. peace...

HUSSA

In Rotation:
Bob Dylan- Love and Theft
Charlie Hunter- S/T
Common- L.W.F.C.
Alicia Keys- Songs In A Minor
DJ Shadow- Pre-emptive Strike