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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #3720

Subject: "Yes it's okay to allocate fault." This topic is locked.
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Pinko_Panther
Member since Dec 11th 2002
11808 posts
Fri Oct-10-03 01:11 PM

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36. "Yes it's okay to allocate fault."
In response to In response to 33


  

          

>Ok, bro. I am a Jew, my dad is Israeli. I read my share
>about this. To my knowledge, the Palestinians want the Jews
>out of Israel, so they can have the land. Most middle
>eastern countries and palestinian organisations refuse to
>recognise Israel as a nation. They say those people have no
>right to be there and want to kick them out. To me that
>comes to the same thing. I refer yo to my initial post. Both
>sides are wrong.

NO! Both sides are not wrong! Every event in history consists of an action and a reaction. And by my extensive study on the subject(and it really doesn't take much to comprehend this) the Zionist movement that was responsible for settling the State of Israel with the help of the British HAD to displace 750,000 Palestinian Arabs in order to create a state that is "Jewish in character". The Palestinians did not cause the Jews any harm prior to losing their lands, homes and dignity and Israel has certainly never done anything to show either remorse for this occurence nor has Israel even given the slightest impression that the state of Israel owes any reparation to the Palestinians. Meanwhile the Palestinian people are among the world's largest refugee population to absolutely no fault of their own while Israel builds even more settlements in the occupied territories at an unprecedented rate. The issue here is sovereignty, and Israel violated the sovereignty of Palestinians, not vice versa.

If you want a truly passionate perspective on the topic then go read some of the works of the Jewish author Norman Finkelstein. This man is a professor at New York State University and offers a similar perspective to my own. Both of his parents were survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and Aushwitz(sp?). Finkelstein disguted at how the wealthy Zionist enterprised has exploited the suffering of poor Jews for profit, is a principled defender of Palestinian rights and sovereignty.

Yes, you are correct, there are extremists on both sides. Here is the difference, however. Zionism, in order to create a Jewish State, settled Israel by means of extremism and racism. Palestinian extremism is the direct product of Israeli occupation and settlement. This difference is key! If there was no occupation then there would be no Palestinian extremism.

Don't ask yourself whether extremism is moral or not because that will obscure the answers to this question we are discussing and you will not find any solutions. Rather, you should be asking "Why do people become extremist? Why do everyday people look to extremists for answers?" The answer to such questions is far more simple than the one you are grappling over. Firstly, when people are starved, poor and desperate then they are easily bribed and held hostage. Legitimacy in these groups only occur when desperate people have been exhausted of all other answers and have percievably, absolutely, no other options but desperately following extremists who offer them far more than anyone else. With this point established you must ask what made this population of refugees so poor? Could it be that a military occupation that helps in redirecting resources from Palestinian neighborhoods to Israeli settlements might have some cause of this desperation? Could the humilation of watching family members, children shot or starved to death might drives someone crazy enough to follow extremists that offer them a path?

Do you know what determinism is? It is the philosophical ideology that explains that one's environment, social conditions and history determine one's mentality and behaviour. Do you really think that leaders of Hamas would have any legitimacy among regular Palestinians if the normal life of a Palestinian was to have guaranteed food, clothing, shelter, and a right to work? Why would a Palestinian who has a decent life need to pay any mind to Hamas? They could no longer offer them anything if this was the case.

Then we must look at all the horrible Palestinian leaders that the Israeli government and Mossad had a deep hand in bringing to public attention. Arafat was a propped up puppet that Israel helped bring to power because they knew that whether or not Arafat failed or succeeded all blame could be placed on this corrupt man. Also Mossad has a long history of assassinating moderate leftist voices in Palestine. What happens when you murder the majority of moderates? What are left with? Your own gravediggers, that's what.

One more time and I can't stress this enough. If there was no occupation, there would be no suicide bombers or mass extremism. The ball, my friend, is easily in Israel's court.

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

  

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Palestine & Israel: Both wrong. [View all] , insanejake, Tue Oct-07-03 04:20 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
1
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
2
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
3
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
4
      RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
6
           RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
7
                RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
8
                     RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
9
                          RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
11
                          Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own state'
Oct 08th 2003
13
                          RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 08th 2003
14
                          RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 08th 2003
22
                               RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 09th 2003
25
                               RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 09th 2003
32
                                    RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 10th 2003
40
                               RE: Barak did not offer the Palestinians their 'own sta
Oct 12th 2003
46
                          RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
18
                               RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 09th 2003
24
                               RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 09th 2003
31
                                    RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 10th 2003
39
                                         RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 11th 2003
44
                                              RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 12th 2003
45
                                                   RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 12th 2003
47
                                                        RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 12th 2003
48
                                                             RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 13th 2003
50
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 07th 2003
5
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
10
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
12
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
15
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
16
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 08th 2003
21
zionism is racism
Oct 08th 2003
17
RE: zionism is racism
Oct 08th 2003
19
RE: zionism is racism
Oct 08th 2003
20
RE: zionism is racism
Oct 08th 2003
23
      Exactly!
Oct 09th 2003
26
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
27
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
28
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
35
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
33
          
                RE: Yes it's okay to allocate fault.
Oct 10th 2003
37
                RE: Yes it's okay to allocate fault.
Oct 10th 2003
38
                uhhh... ever heard of the....
Oct 10th 2003
41
                RE: Yes it's okay to allocate fault.
Oct 11th 2003
43
                RE: Yes it's okay to allocate fault.
Oct 12th 2003
49
                     Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
52
                          RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
53
                               RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
54
                               RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
57
                                    RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
62
                                         RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
66
                                              RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
70
                               RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
58
                                    RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
63
                                    RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
67
                                         RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
71
                                         RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
73
                                    RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 13th 2003
64
                                         RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
68
                                              RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 14th 2003
72
                                                   RE: Wow, logical argument is beyond you I guess
Oct 15th 2003
76
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
29
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
30
      RE: zionism is racism
Oct 09th 2003
34
      you kicked them off of it to get it
Oct 15th 2003
80
           RE: you kicked them off of it to get it
Oct 16th 2003
84
RE: Palestine & Israel: Both wrong.
Oct 10th 2003
42
The moderates speak up
Oct 13th 2003
51
WHEEEEE! WONDER WHEEL! WONDER WHEEL!
Oct 13th 2003
55
RE: WHEEEEE! WONDER WHEEL! WONDER WHEEL!
Oct 13th 2003
56
RE: WHEEEEE! WONDER WHEEL! WONDER WHEEL!
Oct 13th 2003
59
      Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 13th 2003
60
           RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 13th 2003
61
                RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 13th 2003
65
                     RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 14th 2003
69
                          RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 14th 2003
74
                               RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 15th 2003
75
                                    RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 15th 2003
77
                                         RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 15th 2003
78
                                              RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 15th 2003
79
                                                   RE: Oh, PLEASE!
Oct 15th 2003
82
the exloited becoming the exploiter
Oct 15th 2003
81
RE: the exloited becoming the exploiter
Oct 15th 2003
83

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