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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectYes it's okay to allocate fault.
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=3720&mesg_id=3761
3761, Yes it's okay to allocate fault.
Posted by Pinko_Panther, Fri Oct-10-03 01:11 PM
>Ok, bro. I am a Jew, my dad is Israeli. I read my share
>about this. To my knowledge, the Palestinians want the Jews
>out of Israel, so they can have the land. Most middle
>eastern countries and palestinian organisations refuse to
>recognise Israel as a nation. They say those people have no
>right to be there and want to kick them out. To me that
>comes to the same thing. I refer yo to my initial post. Both
>sides are wrong.

NO! Both sides are not wrong! Every event in history consists of an action and a reaction. And by my extensive study on the subject(and it really doesn't take much to comprehend this) the Zionist movement that was responsible for settling the State of Israel with the help of the British HAD to displace 750,000 Palestinian Arabs in order to create a state that is "Jewish in character". The Palestinians did not cause the Jews any harm prior to losing their lands, homes and dignity and Israel has certainly never done anything to show either remorse for this occurence nor has Israel even given the slightest impression that the state of Israel owes any reparation to the Palestinians. Meanwhile the Palestinian people are among the world's largest refugee population to absolutely no fault of their own while Israel builds even more settlements in the occupied territories at an unprecedented rate. The issue here is sovereignty, and Israel violated the sovereignty of Palestinians, not vice versa.

If you want a truly passionate perspective on the topic then go read some of the works of the Jewish author Norman Finkelstein. This man is a professor at New York State University and offers a similar perspective to my own. Both of his parents were survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and Aushwitz(sp?). Finkelstein disguted at how the wealthy Zionist enterprised has exploited the suffering of poor Jews for profit, is a principled defender of Palestinian rights and sovereignty.

Yes, you are correct, there are extremists on both sides. Here is the difference, however. Zionism, in order to create a Jewish State, settled Israel by means of extremism and racism. Palestinian extremism is the direct product of Israeli occupation and settlement. This difference is key! If there was no occupation then there would be no Palestinian extremism.

Don't ask yourself whether extremism is moral or not because that will obscure the answers to this question we are discussing and you will not find any solutions. Rather, you should be asking "Why do people become extremist? Why do everyday people look to extremists for answers?" The answer to such questions is far more simple than the one you are grappling over. Firstly, when people are starved, poor and desperate then they are easily bribed and held hostage. Legitimacy in these groups only occur when desperate people have been exhausted of all other answers and have percievably, absolutely, no other options but desperately following extremists who offer them far more than anyone else. With this point established you must ask what made this population of refugees so poor? Could it be that a military occupation that helps in redirecting resources from Palestinian neighborhoods to Israeli settlements might have some cause of this desperation? Could the humilation of watching family members, children shot or starved to death might drives someone crazy enough to follow extremists that offer them a path?

Do you know what determinism is? It is the philosophical ideology that explains that one's environment, social conditions and history determine one's mentality and behaviour. Do you really think that leaders of Hamas would have any legitimacy among regular Palestinians if the normal life of a Palestinian was to have guaranteed food, clothing, shelter, and a right to work? Why would a Palestinian who has a decent life need to pay any mind to Hamas? They could no longer offer them anything if this was the case.

Then we must look at all the horrible Palestinian leaders that the Israeli government and Mossad had a deep hand in bringing to public attention. Arafat was a propped up puppet that Israel helped bring to power because they knew that whether or not Arafat failed or succeeded all blame could be placed on this corrupt man. Also Mossad has a long history of assassinating moderate leftist voices in Palestine. What happens when you murder the majority of moderates? What are left with? Your own gravediggers, that's what.

One more time and I can't stress this enough. If there was no occupation, there would be no suicide bombers or mass extremism. The ball, my friend, is easily in Israel's court.