Hey man, first of all I want to apologize for all the stuff I said about the Qu' ran. That you say is not in the Qu' ran. But I want to let you know that everything I said I heard from Muslims. They told me that this is what the Qu' ran said. But I see that one thing Christianity has in common with Islam is people of the same religion so to speak that have different interpretations of the same book. I am pretty sure you encounter that with other muslim sects. But my main point in this was to show you that the bible and the Qu' ran are completely opposite of each other. Look below.


>There are many reasons why we
>don't accept Muhammad's teachings in
>the Qu' ran.
>
>First of all, they completely contradict
>all 66 books in the
>bible. The 66 books in
>the bible were written by
>over 40 different people throughout
>a span of over 2000
>years. Yet all these 66
>books agree with each other
>on this simple principle, man
>was created perfect. He lost
>His perfection through sin. God
>made a plan to restore
>mankind back to where Adam
>was. He created a sacrifice
>system that allowed men to
>have their sins forgiven.
In Islam we are on the same lines.

This
>was done first by animals
>which provided temporary forgiveness.

Muslim sacrifice animals as well. As a matter fact most Muslim meat stores sacrifice animals in a certain manner. The animal is killed in a humane way and the animal is killed in the name of Allah. So from the meat that comes from the animal, people are fed. The person who sacrfices the animal feeds his/her family and can give the other parts away for charity to the needy or other friends and family.

-->> Question???? When you sin, do you sacrifice an animal on the altar of God for your sins? This according to the law of Moses must be done at least one day a week on the sabbath, which is on Saturday. Do you keep the Sabbath? Do you follow the law of Moses to the letter? If not, that is a main difference right there. Since muslims don't believe in Jesus as the final sacrifice for man's sin, then you must follow the strict rituals of the law as it was revealed to Moses. If Muhammad has a different law, then his law disagrees with the law of Moses. Therefore, how can they be from the same God. Only God can change His law or make His law void or supercede His law. So explain to me how you account for the differences between these two prophets as you call them. None of the other prophets disagreed with the law of Moses. For this comparison, take Jesus out of the picture, because the bible says that Jesus is God. So let us, for this discussion take Jesus out of the picture and look at just all the Jewish prophets, and the one arabic one. So why does every Jewish prophet from Moses to Malachi follow the Law of Moses but Muhammad comes up with own rules? And the animal sacrifices had to be sacrificed in God's temple that was built by a Jewish king, King Solomon. But the romans burned down the temple in 70A.D. So without the temple of God, where are you guys sacrificing your animals at. Because there was only one temple God abided in. One place that all the jews came to every year to offer sacrifices for their sins. Blood sacrifices of animals that were eaten by the high priest. That no longer exists.

>But
>the problem was that man
>was still in a fallen
>state because we were all
>still descendants of Adam. So
>God sent Himself, enclosed in
>flesh.To live a perfect
>life with no sin.

As Muslims we believe Allah to be perfect. Allah is the creator, the first, the last, the one, the unique, the all knowing ..all powerful. We hold Allah in high esteem. In such a esteem that he's beyond having to stoop to this level.

-->> You assume to know God and think for Him, that He would not stoop to the level of man. Yet all the Jewish prophets from Abraham to Malachi prophesized that He would "stoop" to our level. But Muhammad says that God won't. So again, the disagreement. The bible doesn't say God stooped to man's level but reached. In other words, there are three aspects of God that Christianians call the trinity. Not 3 gods, but One God who operates in three different ways. The Father, who is the originator of everything that God does. The Word which proclaims who God is and carries the spiritual building material of everything that exists. And the Spirit of God who is the power of God who brings to pass everything that God says. All these three make up one God. When Adam was on earth, before He sinned. God's Spirit was in him, on him, and all around Him. When Adam disobeyed God, the Spirit of God left him. And God and man were no longer one because man was now unholy and God is Holy. But God refused to leave the situation like that, so God had to redeem mankind so that man could once again be holy so God could be one with Him again like He originally intended to be from the jump. So along came the law of Moses. The jews built a sanctuary for God to dwell in. A building, which was as close as God could get to fallen man. God longs for the fellowship He had with Adam before the fall just like a loving father who longs to spend time with his children. But the sin problem was still the issue. Animal sacrifice helped but the animal sacrifice could only clean the sin, but it couldn't take sin away. Until sin itself could be removed from man, God could not be one with man like he was Adam before he sinned. So the Father who is God, who is omnipresent,meaning He can exist in a billion places at one time. Took his Word, which is Him, and sent it to earth. God the Father, was still on the throne. But now His word was on earth, wrapped in flesh. And the Word who is God, was able to keep His own commandements because He gave them. And he made a promise to Abraham and all the jews, anyone who can live a perfect life, will be holy enough for me to abide with him as one. But no human could do it. But when God made himself human, in the form of a Jew, and kept every commandment in the law of Moses, he fullfilled man's part of the deal. So that when he died as a sacrifice, not only did His pure blood clean sin but literally destroyed it's power over man. So that after Adam, every human being is born of man and therefore born with a sin nature. But when you become born again through Jesus, the bible says God takes out that thing that motivates you to sin and puts His Spirit in you to motivate you to practice righteous. So you ask then, why do Christians still sin? That is because we still have the mind of a sinner even though we have the heart of God. This is why God commands us as Christians to renew our mind to His word so we can think like He thinks. Now that God's spirit is in me and on me, I no longer have something driving me to sin. But yet in my unrenewed mind, I still think like a sinner. But God realizing this made provision for us through the blood so that when we do sin, rather than losing the Spirit of God like Adam did, the blood of Jesus has already washed me of that sin so that God's spirit stays with me forever. The only way God's spirit will depart from me now is if I stop believing in the power of the blood to cleanse me of my sin.


>Being
>innocent of sin, like the
>animals, he qualified to be
>a sacrifice for the sins
>of the Jews.

So God in his infinite position allowed himself to be sacrificed?

-->> You can't sacrifice God. God is a spirit. You can't nail a spirit to a cross. God wrapped Himself in flesh. The flesh was sacrificed. After the flesh died, God's spirit was still alive. But it was the flesh that died. The human flesh had to be sacrificed. The blood of a human that had never sinned had to be sacrificed. The only human that could do that was a human that had God's spirit in Him and on Him. That human spirit is what the bible says in the Word of God. The bible says that man is a triune being. He is a spirit(which comes from God who is a spiritual being), he has a soul(your mind, will, intellect, and emotions), and lives inside a physical, fleshy body. Jesus was human(spirit, soul, and body). But unlike other men, His spirit was the Word. With a human soul, in a human body.

I know you don't believe this, but my point again us to show you why the Qu' ran doesn't teach what the bible teaches but teaches against what the bible teaches.

>But since
>He was God, the creator
>of all men, He also
>qualified to be a sacrifice
>for the sins of all
>men. And again, since He
>was and is God, whatever
>He did one time, lasts
>for eternity. So now there
>is no longer a need
>for another sacrifice for sin.


>So now when I sin,
>rather than cracking open a
>goat on the altar, I
>can just plead the blood
>which not only covers my
>sins like the blood of
>animals but literally washes away
>the sin from me completely
>to the point where I
>can appear before God as
>if I had never sinned.

So thats it. You can sin and continue to sin and no matter what your sins will be forgiven? So for example: A person can rape children and just keep raping children and his sins are always forgiven? As long as he or she sacrifices he or she is cool and the sins are forgiven without a doubt.


-->> I always get this response. I think I explained this above. But let me give you a brief summary again. Adam, when he sinned, cursed all human flesh. So that now, all humans are born with a sin nature. Everyone's sin nature is different depending on what their weakness is. Most people's weakness are the sins that are legal in that country, like sexual lust, alcohol, cussing, jealousy, envy, partying, and etc. Because of this sin nature, God could no longer be one with man. So God created a temporary sacrifice system to clean man as best as he could with animal blood so He could get close enough to man to lead us through time to when He could redeem us back to Himself. By sacrificing Jesus on the cross who was in the form of a human, God was able to redeem man. He was able to take the sin nature out of man and place in Him His own nature who is Him, the Spirit of God. So now as a born again believer, I now have a God nature and not a sin nature. I have something in me, if you will, that drives me to do the things of God. I still have a human soul though. And even though my spirit is has been redeemed, I will spend the rest of my life renewing my mind. And my body won't be renewed until Jesus comes back to give me a new body. Now you used rapist, a man who practices raping women. But a true born again person doesn't go around raping women. Because when the spirit of God is in you, you are compelled to do righteous. You practice righteousness and every now and then you sin. Now I am not saying that a rapist can't get born again. Because I can rape 20 women, and then confess Jesus as my Lord and savior and the bible says that God will look at all the torture that Jesus went through and accept Jesus' suffering on the cross as payment for my sin, and forgive me. However, the bible says that whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap. So I may get born again, and God forgives me. But the US gov't won't. And I will still have to go to jail, even get put on death row. But at least I can know that I will get into heaven because the blood of Jesus is powerful enough to cleanse me of the most haneous sin. The only sin the blood can't forgive me for is not believing in the power of the blood to forgive me.

-->> Now I know this blows your mind because you are religious, you believe that a man must earn his right to get into heaven. That's why the Qu' ran doesn't agree with the bible because the bible says all men have come short of God and therefore cannot go to heaven. In order to go to heaven we must be right with God like Adam was before he sinned and no man, no man has done that. None are righteous, none except God. So you can live the perfect life for 80 years and sin one time and God says you are not worthy to enter the kingdom. Do you understand what I am saying? There are none righteous except God. So whether you are Mother Teresa or Jeffery Dahmer, God's put all men in the same catagory, children of Adam who sinned against God. So whether you are Mother Teresa or Jeffrey Dahmer, we all get the same judgement as Adam, sinner. The only chance man has, since we can't earn God's righteousness, is that God gives us His righteousness as a FREE gift. That's the only chance we had. And because God loves us so much and longs for us to be His children again. He seperated Himself a man by the name of Abraham. He made a covenant with Abraham that He knew Abraham couldn't keep, He told Abraham to walk before Him and be perfect. But the good thing about this covenant was, Abraham's descendants could also have a shot at this as well. But none could do it. But God knew what He was doing. He preserved the jews. When they messed up and went after other gods, God accused them of adultery because He viewed them as His wife. (Please ask me for the scripture on this so I can show you). But why? Why call them a wife? Because God planned on having a child from them. A child being that this person would be human, but really God in disguise, for lack of a better word. And you say, why did God disguise Himself? The bible says that God could not let satan know what He was doing because God needed satan to sacrifice this perfect human so that the blood of this perfect human would not only clean man, but restore mankind to the status of Adam. So now through that sacrifice, any man who believes can be righteous. All you have to do is believe and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and the blood will allow someone who used to be a sinner to stand before God as if He had never sinned. Jesus being 100% God and 100% man bridged the gap between man and God that was created by Adam. So now a rapist, who has in him a sin nature that compels him to rape, chooses to believe in the blood and confess that Jesus is Lord, and God reaches into his heart and pulls out that sinful nature and puts in that man a God nature. Now, he still thinks like a rapist. So he may go and attempt to rape again, but when he tries to, it will no longer feel right to him like it did when he had the sin nature. With the sin nature, sin feels right. But with that God nature, sin feels wrong. And a guy who use to be a rapist is no longer driven to practice it. This is what happens when people hear the true word of God and believe in its power to redeem them from not just from their past sins, but from the bondage of sin itself.
-->> So you look at someone like a mother teresa and thinks she has a much better chance of Getting into heaven than a Jeffery Dahmer. Yet I am trying to tell you that the same blood that saved Mother Teresa can save a Jeffery Dahmer. All God needs is one thing from both of them, to believe. And what you believe, you'll confess with your mouth. Mother Teresa wasn't right with God because of all her good works, she was right with God because she believed in the blood of Jesus. Her good works are the result of the Spirit of God in her propelling her to good works. And had Jeffery Dahmer gotten born again, he too would have changed his life but he wasn't given that chance because someone ended his life. Which also goes along with scripture, what a man sows he reaps. Jefferey sowed murder, so he reaped his own death. Now I'm not saying the guy went to hell, because I don't know if he accepted Jesus or not before he died. Because if he did, then he is in heaven.
See!! That's what I am talking about! Your mind can't accept that because you're religious. You still think a man has to earn it, but he can't. Jesus paid the price for every man's sin on this planet. The price that a Jeffery Dahmer has to pay was already paid by Jesus when they whipped him 39 times, beat him up like Rodney King. Crucified Him on that cross for 3 hours and He drowned in His own blood that filled His lungs and eventually suffocated Him. Jesus went through all that so anyone who calls on His name can be saved. This is what the bible preaches. And if the Qu' ran doesn't say this, then it not only contradicts the bible, but calls the bible a lie.

>The Qu' ran has no
>sacrifice system for sin. The
>Qu' ran doesn't teach about
>bloodshed which is necessary to
>forgive sin according to the
>bible. So how are muslims
>getting their sins forgiven? Just
>by asking Allah? Doing some
>atonement ritual? Then Allah is
>a different god from the
>God of the bible. Because
>the God of the bible
>requires a blood sacrifice for
>sin. And that blood sacrifice
>has to be completely innocent
>of sin.

In Islam the system of forgiveness is called Taubah. First and foremost the way to forgiveness is as follows:

1) Muslims are taught to not go near to sin. For example a Muslim man or woman shouldnt be alone with the opposite sex that is not a spouse or a family member without a third party.
"Go not near to fornication"

2) Say that you do make a mistake and commit sin. No you should go to repent. There is a condition for repentance: you should feel remorse and bad that you have commited this sin. Even if no one knows but you Allah knows. Allah is all knowing, all hearing...all seeing.

3) From the remorse which is based on your level of faith, love and fear for Allah you go to repent.

4) Repentance is simply a sincere prayer to Allah for forgiveness. There is another condition for true repentance. That condition is the sinner should have no intention on retruning to the sin. If the sinner is weak they will ask Allah to help them become strong and then try thier best to put something in place to combat to temptation of the particular sin.

Example: If the sinners problem is fornication (sex without marriage). The sinner should strive to not be alone with the opposite sex. Another option is: If there are two people (a male and a female) that are in love with each other they should work towards marriage.

5) There are other ways to atone from sin. One way is sacrifice a animal but it doesnt stop there. A person can fast. A person can feed and or help out the needy or give charity. A person can visit the sick. A person can really just strive to do good deeds. In Islam good deeds can wash away sins. Allah loves constancy. Meaning he loves what is done constantly with pure intention. The purest of intentions is doing some thing for Allah's pleasure only not to show off or grand stand for people to see you.


-->> Again, all of these are works. You say atone for sin which means to cover sin up. But if I deficate on your floor, and you cover it up with a area rug. The room may look clean, but after a while, the smell will prove that the room is not as clean as it appears. But if I thoughly clean the floor by washing away the mess, then it not only looks clean, but smells clean and is clean. That's what the blood of Jesus does. This is why the animal sacrifices were only temporary. The blood of Jesus washed sin away completely.
>
>Also the bible teaches that God
>made a covenant with Abraham,
>Isaac, and Jacob. But the
>Qu' ran only acknowledges Abraham
>and says that Isaac and
>Jacob did not have a
>covenant with God.

I dont know what you mean by covenant but Allah aknowledges and uplifts Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They all seen as prophets and thier stories are told by Allah in the Quran as examples for us to follow. As a matter of fact Hajj is built completely around Abrahams life and example.


-->> The whole point of the bible is covenant. Again, another difference. All the Jewish prophets from Abraham to Malachi talk about covenant. Why doesn't the Qu' ran talk about the most powerful agreement between God and man? It was this covenant that saved the Jews from total annihilation and eventually lead to the birth of Jesus who would be the final sacrifice for sin.

>
>The Qu' ran says that Arabic
>people are the chosen people
>of God.

No it doesnt. Allah only mentions that he chose Arabic as the language for the Quran and a Arab to be his prophet (Muhamed (SAWS)
>But the bible
>says that the Jews were
>the chosen people of God
>and that(before Jesus), the arabic
>people were enemies of God.
>
>
>The bible teaches in the new
>testament that Jesus is the
>Son of God and that
>anyone who says that Jesus
>is not the Son of
>God is the antichrist. The
>Qu' ran clearly says that
>Jesus is a prophet, not
>the son of God and
>Muhammad clearly said that Allah
>had NO son.
>

TRUE very TRUE

>The Qu' ran says that Muhammad
>is the greatest prophet.

No it doesnt. The only thing special about the Prophet Muhammed is that Allah chose him as the last prophet to mankind. Allah mentions in the Quran for believers to not put any prophet over any other one they were all great and they all came with the SAME message. Allah also teaches that all prophets were Muslim. Meaning they submitted to Allahs will.

-->>> This too goes against the bible. The bible clearly says that John the Baptist was the greatest prophet before Jesus death. And there is no mention of a last prophet. There are still plenty of prophets today even greater than the prophets of old because even though Jesus said that John the baptist was the greatest prophet, Jesus also said that John is the least in the kingdom of heaven. Why, because He didn't have the Spirit of God in him like all Christians do. But there are plenty of prophets with the Spirit of God in them and on them doing great miracles in the earth, raising the dead, healing the sick, rebuking storms, and taking authority over demons by casting out evil spirits just by commanding them to go. So the bible definitely says that John was NOT the last prophet and any body after Jesus who was a prophet had to be born again and baptised in the Holy Ghost. And since Muhammad says that Jesus was not the Son of God, the bible considers him to be a false prophet.

> But
>the bible says that John
>the baptist was the greatest
>prophet because he made the
>way for the Son of
>God to come into His
>ministry of salvation, preaching repentance
>to the Jews and pointing
>out who the messiah is
>to them.
>
>The Qu' ran says that Muhammad
>recieved the words of the
>Qu' ran from the arch
>angel Gabriel. But the bible
>says that all the writers
>of the books of the
>bible received those words from
>the Spirit of God Himself,
>who is God with all
>the power and authority of
>God. None of the men
>in the bible were inspired
>to write what they wrote
>by angels, but by God
>Himself.
>

Allah sent the Angel Jibrail (gabriel) as just a messenger with his word. Allah also mentions in the Quran that he doest speak to anyone except through a veil. As far the prophet Muhammed is concerned along with Moses they both were sent the Angel Jabrail. He was the veil.

-->> That doesn't agree with the bible. The bible says that God Himself spoke to Moses from a burning bush and that God Himself gave Moses the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai. Not some angel.

>The bible says that if anyone
>tells you something that goes
>against the word, even an
>angel, believe the word. Because
>not all the angels follow
>God and the bible says
>that even satan has the
>ability to appear to men
>as an angel of light.
>
>
>So as you can see their
>are a lot of contradictions
>between what the bible teaches,
>and what the Qu' ran
>teaches. Therefore, only one of
>those books are the word
>of God because the One
>true and living God won't
>contradict Himself.

True. Muslims have to believe in the bible in its original form to be the word of Allah. To my knowledge and the knowledge of many Scholars, historians and even other Christians the bible has been tampered with by humans BIG TIME. It takes me the Paul thing.


-->> The King James Version of the bible is the direct translation of the original Hebrew and greek texts. They found the dead sea scrolls written by the prophet Daniel and translated them to english and it didn't say anything different from what the King James Version said. The Spirit of God made sure that His word would not be tampered with by any man so that all men will know the truth. So even if you go back to the original Hebrew text, you'll still see it saying the same thing I just told you.

-->>> Please keep in mind, I realize that all of this won't convince you to believe what I believe. My only point is to show you that the bible calls the Qu 'ran a lie and the Qu' ran call the bible a lie. So you have to believe in one or the other. You can't believe in both.