According to my current studies, "Allah", is derived from the root word "Ilu", found in the dialect of the Semites meaning

'one God'. To quote from the book I mentioned a few posts ago, the writer says "Ilu", whose name was later modified in their

dialects into 'Yahweh', 'Jahweh', 'Jehova', and 'Elohim' with the Hebrews and 'Allat', 'Allah', and 'Ilah' with the Arabs.

The origin of all these, however, is 'Ilu'.

-->> Thanks for that info. So the word Allah is arabic for One God. Check this out the word Elohim, which you used to mean

one God, it is actually plural meaning gods. Not in the since of more than One God but One God with many aspects to Himself.

You can look up the word Elohim in hebrew to see what I mean.

Also in the book of Genesis 1:26, God(Elohim) said let US make man into OUR image and likeness.

Why did this One God say let us and our? Don't get me wrong, I believe in One God. But I believe this One God, His Word, and

His Spirit are One. The bible says in John 1, that God's Word is God. And we know God and His spirit are one. However, you

have to ask yourself in the book of Genesis why God seperates Himself from His own Spirit and His word(throughout the old

testament) as if they are important facts as to what makes God, God.



Quick question. How does one gain "understanding" but not "agreement" whereas this is concerned?


Oh this is easy. If a man is hungry and he steals some food to eat. I can understand his motivation, however I do not agree

with stealing. Since I use to fornicate, I can understand why people fornicate, because it feels good. But I disagree with

fornication because I know that it is not of God.

The bible says in Hebrews 4 that Jesus understands the sins of man yet He Himself knew no sin. So what I am saying is this. I

understand human weakness because being human, I can relate to it. However, there are some weaknesses I don't understand

because I can't relate. But I disagree with them because they are not of God. And since I am of God, and He has given me His

nature, I disagree with sin because I now know the consequences of sin. This is hard to explain to you since you are not a

believer. So I have to explain the best way I can and pray that the God's spirit will give you understanding like He gave it

to me. Because I can understand human weakness based off an old understanding of being in sin myself. But now my disagreement

with sin comes from a new understanding. And although I have this new understanding, I haven't forgotten my old way of

thinking and understanding.



Adam was
>created perfect. He was right
>with God yet He did
>absolutely nothing to earn it.
>He had no rules to
>follow, no rituals to commit
>to.

Hold it right there. As I mention a few posts ago, the ONLY *rule* that divides us (believers from disbelievers) is the 'OBEY

GOD RULE'.

-->> Exactly. Until Adam disobeyed God, He was righteous. Because he was made that way. As long as he did not touch that

tree, he obeyed God. He wasn't disobedient until he touched the tree. Like the law of speeding. If I am at rest and the speed

limit is 55mph. And I begin to accelerate, as long as I am going less than 55mph, I am obedient to the law. But once I exceed

the speed limit, I have now broken the law. So until Adam touched the tree, he was obedient and right with God.

>Now I know you don't believe
>this, but because we are
>all the seed of Adam,
>no human being born of
>a mother and father could
>be perfect, no one. Not
>Muhammad, not Buddha, no one.

Now, let's examine this statement for a moment. Since you mention Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Buddah, why was Jesus not

mentioned here? You said 'no one', right? More on this later.

Excuse me, I should have clarified myself. I meant human mother and human father. Because no one from Adam could be born

perfect. But Jesus had a earthly mother and Heavenly Father who is God. Because his Father is God, He was born perfect. But

since he had a earthly mother, He was born with the option to sin, but not the desire too like all other humans are.

>You could do all the
>good works you could and
>you would still make a
>mistake and come short of
>God. And coming short of
>God won't suffice. Because no
>matter how many good works
>you did, you would all
>be judged for what Adam
>did. Which seems unfair.

And this, Mr. Thompkins, would make Allah unjust. Wouldn't you agree?

Absolutletly, only if He didn't make a way out of this trap. Go back to Genesis at the fall. Read Genesis 3:15 where God said

he would enmity between her(Eve) seed and satan's seed and that Eve's seed would bruise his(the serpent) head and he satan

would bruise his(the seed of the woman) heel. What was God doing here? He was making a plan of redeemption for man. Keep in

mind, the fall of Adam was not a surprise to God for God said after the fall, "man is indeed flesh." So God had already made

provision for man. Think about it, by grouping all men under Adam worked out best. Because, since by one man, all men were

born condemned, then by one man, all men could be made righteous. But this one man, he had to be like Adam. He couldn't have

an earthly Father. His birth had to be supernatural. Adam and Jesus had the same Father as far as their fleshly bodies were

concerned in that they were both human and capable of doing everything that humans do. So God is just, because He could have

left us like we were. He didn't have to redeem us. He didn't redeem satan, a fallen angel. He didn't have to redeem us. He's

God, and whatever He decides is just. Even if He decided not to redeem mankind, He would have been just. For who is higher

than Him to judge whether or not His decisions are Just. But to be the loving God that He says He is, then you're right. He

had to make a second chance for man to get back to where He was created to be, in right standing with God. But how could God

do this. How could a spiritual being, like man, be restored to being right with God. First of all, there had to be a way to

pay for his sin. Then there had to be a way to continually cleanse him of his sin. Then there had to be a way he could

receive a new body that was perfect like Adam's body before Adam sinned.

So
>God impregnated a woman. He
>took her egg and made
>her egg one with His
>word. This was prophesized in
>the old testament.(Let me know
>if you want the scriptures).
>And so God's word became
>flesh. And when God's word
>became flesh, this fleshly version
>of God was called His
>Son.

Unfortunately, this is where we part ways in understanding of the scripture. That is what we call a "spooky" (no offense)

understanding of the Word. If you had a young daughter and she came home pregnant sayin' "it was the 'holy ghost' who did it,

daddy", you would'nt be lookin' for a spirit who entered your daughter, would you? You'd be lookin' for a man. A MAN. Jesus

is called throughout the scripture the "son of MAN" not "son of SPIRIT." In addition, the "son" factor has always been a

point of contention w/ Muslims and Christians. The Holy Qur'an is very clear on this point when it states "He begetteth not,

nor is He begotten." I'd elaborate further, but I'll continue for space and time sake.

-->>Yeah, you are right. If my daughter got pregnant, then I would be looking for man. Because in my limited human

understanding, I know that a woman can only get pregnant by natural means. And Joseph, the fiancee of Mary also thought the

same thing and intended on divorcing Mary because he thought she was lying. But God sent an angel to Joseph to explain to

Joseph that this was the fullfillment of the prophecy He spoke of in the old testament, in the book of the prophets. That in

Isaiah 11:1-5, the bible says that there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of His

roots: And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon(or up on) Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of

counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the Lord: And shall make him of quick understanding in the

fear of the Lord....."

The bible is talking about a man here, born out of Jesse, the father of king David who is from the jewish tribe of Judah.

In Isaiah 9:6-8, the bible says "For unto us a child is born and a son is given, and the government shall rest upon His

shoulder: and his name shall be called wonderful counselor, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Of

the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it,

and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform

this."

Who is this child that was prophesized by a Jewish prophet long before Jesus was born on earth. Look what Isaiah says, He

says that this person is an earthly God yet He shall be called Mighty God. He again mentioned that this person was from the

throne of King David who was from the tribe of Judah. (Please keep this in mind as we go forward)

In Isaiah again in chapter 7, verses 13-14, for it says "......hear ye now, O house of David (tribe of Judah), Is it a small

thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin

shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Again, another reference to the tribe of Judah. A mention of a virgin given birth to man who's name is called Immanuel which

means in the Hebrew "God is with us."


So I am saying all this to say, that God promised that a descendant of david would sit on the throne forever. How could a

king sit upon a throne forever unless He was God. But now, how could God being the creator be a descendant of His own

creation? Unless He planned on becoming one with man through a virgin.

Now let us address my daughter getting pregnant and claiming to be impregnated by the Spirit of God. I know she is a lie

because what she just said doesn't line up with prophecy. First of all, I am not a descendant of David, so I am disqualified

right there. Joseph was a descendant of David. The book of Matthew traces his direct descendant to David as well as Mary.

Both of them were from the tribe of Judah. This is why they lived in Judea which was occupied by the descendants of Judah.

Also Mary was a virgin. So what happened to Mary lines up with the prophecy written by the prophet Isaiah. No other Jewish

women in Jewish history have claimed to be impregnated by God. People of other ethnic groups have all through out history.

And I would entertain the thought of their sons being the one Isaiah spoke of if they were (1) Jewish and (2) from the tribe

of Judah. So yeah, if my daughter got pregnant, then yeah, I'll know it wasn't God. But when Mary Got pregnant, I knew it was

the Spirit of God. God doesn everything by His Spirit. We see that in Genesis 1:2, that the Spirit of God was presence before

God could begin creating. I hope now you are starting to see how different the Qu' ran and the bible are. As well as all

other religions.


Not because the Father
>came before the word, but
>because the Word became flesh.
>And so Jesus now, being
>100% man, yet 100% God
>refered to God as His
>Father, only because He now
>had flesh. And He kept
>every commandment and became a
>sacrifice.

Now, according to your understanding, Jesus either suffered from a mental disorder having multiple personalities () or we

don't have a proper understanding of Jesus' identity. The bible that *I* read depicts Jesus as being the servant/messenger

and God as the Master.


Well I don't what bible you are reading, but in the King James Version, it clearly says John 1:1 "In the beginning was the

Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Then later in verse 14........"and the Word was made FLESH, and dwelt

among us and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.

John 3:1-7, 13-21

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him,

Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with

him.Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom

of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb,

and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot

enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(v. 13-21)
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as

Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him

should not perish, but have eternal life.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever

believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;

but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is

condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation,

that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one

that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth

cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

As you can see, Jesus called Himself the son of man and the son of God. This also lines up with the prophecy, that Immanuel

would be the son of man, a descendant of David but yet He is God. He is God and man at the same time. This was the plan of

God from the beginning that He and man would become one so that he could lift man back up to the place where we were before

we fell. So yes, Jesus was the son of man but he is the Son of God. Don't try to understand or make sense of this from your

human understanding, because you can't. What seems like foolishness to us is wisdom to God. For what are our minds that we

think that we can make sense out of the things God does. This is why the bible says in the old testament in Proverbs 3:5 for

us to not lean on our own understanding but trust God, and trust His word. But if you choose not to believe His word. That's

on you. But Jesus has already given you the consequences.



>In the old testament, Jews sacrificed
>animals for their sins. The
>reason they could do this
>was because an animal couldn't
>be guilty of sin. So
>what the Jewish priest would
>do, is impute all the
>sins of man on this
>goat and kill the goat
>thereby killing sin. But the
>problem was, the blood of
>animals was only temporary, this
>is why the Jews had
>to do this, year after
>year. But when God made
>Himself flesh, lives with no
>sin, and became a sacrifice.
>His blood is eternal. So
>what the blood of Jesus
>did was clean sin forever.
>It was able to go
>into the past and clean
>the sins of the men
>and women who lived before
>that time, yet go into
>the future and cleanse us
>who were not yet born
>or had believed. Therefore Jesus,
>became the final sacrifice for
>sin.

Please tell me where did you get this information so I can read up on this stuff!!! Is this scriptural?


-->>Oh yeah, read the entire book of Hebrews. All Apostle Paul talkes about is sacrifices. Specifically pay special attention to

Hebrews 10 which starts off "For the law(of Moses) having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the

things, can NEVER with those sacrifices(of animals) which they continually offered year by year continually make the comers

there unto perfect.

Apostle Paul, who himself a jew, from the tribe of Benjamin, talks about the weakness of animal sacrifices in that you had to

make these sacrifices every year but that Jesus is the final sacrifice in that after Him there is no further need for another

sacrifice like with the animals.


In Adam,
>we all come short of
>God. But in Jesus(covered and
>washed by His sacrificial blood)
>we are MADE(like Adam) right
>with God.

This is a favorite topic of mine that I always have w/ my family (who are majority Christian). I reply to it w/ one ? Min.

Farrakhan posed when the subject was introduced:

"If Jesus "paid the price in blood" as the Christians say, why is there still a need for a judgement?"


-->>Which judgement are you talking about. There are 3 judgements mentioned in the bible. The eternal judgement, the judgement of the saints(followers of Jesus), and your individual judgement.

1. Eternal judgement is still needed for those who reject Christ as the messiah
2. Judgement of the saints is to judge all those who did accept Christ but the bible says this judgement is different from that of the world.
3. And your individual judgement which is just you reaping what you sow. This judgement can be good or bad depending on what you sowed. So if you murder, your judgement will be murder. If you sow a sperm seed, your judgement could be a baby. You plant a tomato seed in fertile soil, your judgement for that action will be tomatoes.

(Please ask me for scripture for this, because everything I say comes from true understanding of the word)

So even when
>I mess up, I always
>get judged based off what
>Jesus did, which is perfection.
>Where as an unbeliever, who
>may do more good deeds
>than me, will always be
>judged based off what Adam
>did.

Please elaborate and tell how you came to the above conclusion. (?)
Once again, this would make Allah an unjust, biased, even prejudiced God.

-->>No it wouldn't. If you were hanging off a cliff. And you were slowly losing your grip. And I reached out my hand to you to save you from certain death. And you refused to take my hand to be saved because some Minister told you or your religion told you that my hand was unable to save you, and you fell and died. Am I unjust for trying to save you? It is up to you to grab my hand. It is your choice. God has reached His hand out to everyone who has heard this gospel. If they choose not to believe it, then it is like the man who refused to take my hand so I could pull him up from certain death. So God is just in doing this because He has made a way of salvation. But like Jesus said above in John 3, if you reject it, it's your choice. God would only be unjust if He didn't give you the choice and sent you to hell. Only those who have heard the gospel and refuse to believe it won't be saved.

>And then you say, well that
>means I can sin all
>I want right? Since the
>blood has already covered. But
>the thing is though, if
>God makes you like Him,
>then your nature will be
>a God nature, which means
>you won't practice sin, you'll
>practice what you are, righteousness.
>And when you do sin,
>because we still have this
>sinful flesh from Adam, the
>blood of Jesus has already
>covered it and took care
>of it. This allows man
>to stay where Adam was
>before he fell, in right
>standing with God. God used
>the sacrifice system so that
>man would never require another
>sacrifice.

Again, this is where there is a parting of the ways between us. There is so much to be said regarding the above paragraph

that I don't know where to start. Let's start here:

>And then you say, well that
>means I can sin all
>I want right? Since the
>blood has already covered.

See above question that the Min. posed.

>the thing is though, if
>God makes you like Him,
>then your nature will be
>a God nature, which means
>you won't practice sin, you'll
>practice what you are, righteousness.

Now this sounds good, but it, unfortunately, is contradictory to what you stated above regarding "no one" being capable to

walk w/ out sin. So one is forced to ask the question, "can man be sinless or not?" According to you, the answer is no/yes.


-->>Let me clarify myself again. I will try to explain this as best I can. You were born into sin or born with a nature to sin because you are born the son of Adam. Since you are born of him, you will be judged based off what he did. Jesus, also being human but the Son of God, in the likeness of Adam, lived a perfect life. Something that no human could do. So when he was crucified, he paid the price for man's sins. And then he was resurrected and brought back to life again. So now those that believe on him, have killed their sins in Him and are raised with Him unto life and righteousness with God. So I was born of Adam. but I am now born again in Christ. So when I was born in Adam, no matter what I did right, I was judged for what he did. This is unfair. So God lived perfect in Jesus, so that now by being born again in Him, I am now judged based off what Jesus did. Again, unfair seeing that I haven't lived perfectly but Jesus lived perfectly for me which now qualifies me to be right with God based off what Jesus did instead of being unright with God based off what Adam did. It seems to good to be true, but that is how good God is. This is why I say that according to the definition of Allah and who muslims says he is, he cannot be the God of the Jews and Christians. Because our God is good all the time.

?

>And when you do sin,
>because we still have this
>sinful flesh from Adam, the
>blood of Jesus has already
>covered it and took care
>of it.

To me, it looks like there's a "loop hole" in the contract or an "out clause" so to speak. Again, the question is asked "why

is there a judgement if Jesus already 'covered it'?" Moreover, if Jesus was sent to be an example to man, his testimonial

would have been for naught if the above is true.


-->> Again, which judgement are you talking about?

Would'nt it be great if when I paid my bills it was a representation of all who owed debt to anyone and therefore, there

debts also have been paid? Nice, but not quite the reality of Jesus' situation.

-->> Well Adam and all his descendants had a sin debt. Jesus is at the payment counter ready to pay for your sin debt to the Father. The only thing is, their are 6 billion people who owe this debt and can't pay it all off. So far, only about 1 billion have came to the counter to allow Jesus to pay for their bill. Now Jesus is sitting waiting for the other 5 billion to come to the counter so He can pay theirs before it's too late. But if they refuse to come, then that's their choice.

In closing, I'll just say what *I* got out of studying (and trying to walk) his example:

We all have our own cross to bear. No man can pick up yours for you. Jesus was just one (of many) that was sent to act as a

light-giving sun/son to show the way. The Qur'an says he was sent "as a sign." When you see a sign on the highway, do you

stop at the sign saying, "we've made it to our destination" or do you turn on your blinker to go left/right or wherever the

sign is directing you to go???


-->>> Again, this is where the bible conflicts with the Qu' ran. Jesus was not just a sign, but the path itself. He is the bridge between us and the Father. For it is written, John 14:5-7 (This is what Jesus said) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

-->> So my conclusion is this, that the Qu' ran and all other religions in the world are similar to each other. But they are a long way from the bible. So what it'll come down to is this, which book do you believe is the word. Because they both contradict each other to both be the word. I believe the bible is the written word of God and all other books were written by men.