The post is finally here. I always hear people debating this left & right - but I want to see people get on record and be prepared to defend their selections. Also - when people say "pick your top 10 or top 5" it becomes easy to just throw everybody in there without paying close attention to ordering. So, I'll start

(1)(a) Michael Jordan: Most prolific scorer in NBA history with a Mayweather-like unblemished record in the Finals (though he's not perfect w/ some first-round/early exits). Transcendent talent that defied conventional wisdom on needing a dominant big to win multiple titles. The greatest winner in NBA history. Electrifying, fan-friendly style of play helped endear almost universal recognition as the GOAT.

(1)(b) LeBron James: The greatest all-around basketball player to ever live and the most accomplished individual talent. The league has never seen a more complete player - and likely never will. A gifted Magic-like passer who can volume score with the greatest scorers of all-time. Elite two-way player in his prime who can affect the game in more ways than any of his peers. Never before has such a package of athleticism, IQ, skill-set, natural gifts, physicality and committed work ethic been witnessed in a singular player. Holder of the most historic and improbable title in NBA History (2016). Destroyer of history books.

(2) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Standard bearer of longevity GOATness with exemplary individual accomplishments (titles, MVPs, all-time leading scorer etc...). The single most unstoppable and unguardable move in NBA history: The Sky Hook. The original Duncan "my play speaks for itself" type player who was the epitome of "calm waters run deep" with one of the greatest intellects in the game's history.

(3) Magic Johnson: Transcendent talent that redefined conventional thinking of what it meant to be a point - set in motion a new wave of open-court, free flowing basketball as the greatest player of his time who dominated without being a score-first guy. Got the better of his rivals in a time of great competition. Snake charmer as the floor general and arguably the game's greatest offensive orchestrator.
-->

You can debate the order, but it's those 3 .

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I just think it’s funny Vex won’t pick a consensus #1.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

That's why he's in here trolling.

It's comedy.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

cats up in here like "who is debating that bron is in the top 3/5?" but it was just a moment ago when everyone was debating whether he was even top 10 - so I'm calling for people to defend their arguments here. Interesting that few are up for it.
-->

there's one person who has said that in this post. you can probably throw ThaTruthiness in there since he's still clinging to his kobe>bron agenda like a japanese soldier hiding out in the jungle refusing to surrender after WWII ended. other that that not sure where you are getting there are a lot of them.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

and 99% the peak of jordan
if so, i think i might put him 1 by himself

>and 99% the peak of jordan
>if so, i think i might put him 1 by himself

That's the logic of the 1(a) & 1(b) rankings. I think Bron can get to GOAT status if he remains on this trajectory.

-->

So, he has a headstart, if you will, on professional accomplishments and achievements.

And remember that, Kareem's four years at UCLA are what separates him even further from Bron and Jordan. It's another reason why I made him #1.

3× NCAA champion (1967–1969)
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1967–1969)
3× National college player of the year (1967–1969)
3× Consensus first-team All-American (1967–1969)
No. 33 retired by UCLA
2× Mr. Basketball USA (1964, 1965)

--- praying for peace, love, and power

his longevity has come to overshadow it, but kareem's peak was as dominate as anyone's in NBA history.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and 5.) Bob Horry.

-->

isn’t in there.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

but if people try to discount his ridiculous statistical accomplishments because he “only” has 2 rings then we’re back to the the #RingsMatter argument which gets uncomfortable for some folks...

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=103936

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

And he’ll do it in just one more season (barely).

And he’s won more. Not just rings, but his teams have won more games. He’s better, dude.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

or 81 for that matter. The ONLY thing he has over Wilt is 1 more ring and if we’re counting rings....

See how that works?

You want it to be one way but it’s the other way.(c)Marlo Stansfield

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

by about 3 inches, that the league had ever seen, with the talent he has and could camp in the paint without a 3 sec call.

Wilt played in the developmental stages of the NBA. That doesn't mean he isn't 'a' GOAT but his play gets discounted a bit because of his era. The NBA wouldn't have gone as 'Black' as the current NBA is so a lot of talent was probably left off the table too.

I know they changed the rules for him (which is another reason his stats get discounted, imagine if Shaq had no 3 sec rule) in essence to make him less dominant but again, developmental stages of the league.

Wilt is in my top 4 (behind the obvious 3). Not sure why Vex has Magic's front running a** top 4. Top 10 sure. Not top 4.

>or 81 for that matter. The ONLY thing he has over Wilt is 1
>more ring and if we’re counting rings....
>
>See how that works?
>
>You want it to be one way but it’s the other way.(c)Marlo
>Stansfield

____________

its not even close. Let the league in scoring 7 times, lead the league in rebounding 11 times including his last season when he wasn't just "bigger than everybody else". All-time leader in career rebound totals AND per game and nobody is ever coming close to those records either. They didn't keep block stats until after he retired or he would've led every year in that. He lead the league in assists one year.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Take the first first nine seasons of their respective careers and compare the scoring. Chamberlain was challenged to score LESS and facilitate more and he did. Even when he essentially stopped shooting, he would go rip off 50 just to remind people he could still do it. There is no zero comparison between Wilt and LeBron as scorers, none, frankly there isn't much comparison between Jordan and LeBron in terms of scoring.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

or just applying that selectively?

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

the quality of centers that wilt faced was much higher than what the majority of great centers faced, for example throughout the entire decade of the 2000s (shaq, d12 in his prime, et al). he was playing bill russell, nate thurmond, willis reed and later even kareem and in some cases he was facing them TWELVE times a year as opposed to the two meetings that guys like robinson and ewing had during the year even the position had real depth during the 90s.

wilt played a very strong quality of competition in terms of both individuals who played the center position and the teams he faced. you had the celtics with seven or eight HOF players in a given year. you had the knicks with stacked rosters at times. cinci had two HOF'ers, the Lakers had West and Baylor plus a formidable supporting cast. there weren't as many good players in the world but there only needed to be half as many because of how few teams there were.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

Though I wouldnt disput Magic over Bill.


The short answer is that 2nd place finishes arent
to be celebrated- no matter how hard you try.

MJ- anyone who doesnt say MJ is either too
young or has an agenda. Mike dominated the
game (individually and his team) in such a way
his shadow STILL lumes in 2018.

And, Vex, he accomplished what he did without
having to run to another team, constantly
reset the roster, etc.

And before you try to give credit to the Bulls
franchise, please remember this orgsnization
broke up a dynasty in ‘98 and have been a dumpster
fire since.

I know you want to say Bron is better, or that its close,
but it teally isnt.

Bron is a better human though.


Cap? Kareem matches Bron’s individual accomplishments,
longevity, etc. But...rings vex. Rings.

2nd place finishes just arent legend making.


Bill? Yeah, different era. Slow white guys. Of course,
Bill also had to deal with not being sble to enter
through the front door. And rings. Rings, vex.

But I wouldnt argue against Magic. Individual
accomplishments, rings, and revolutionized
a position.

And one thing to note about Magic and MJ is
that they made their impact in relatively low
amount of seasons.

No HIV and no Reinsdorf, their cases probably
become even stronger.

The guys on this list didnt have to ring chase,
reset their rosters, etc.




No need to hang your head. Over the last few years
Bron had passed up many amazing players on
the list.

Just sit back and enjoy that incredible feat.

In ten years, no one is going to look back and say
“Remember when Bron beat the raptor
juggernot of Lowry and Derozan?”

Lol. Well, except maybe you.

But no one is beleiving that lie in present day, let
alone doen the road.

You want it one way, but its another.

I don't agree - but everyone is entitled to their preferences. With all due respect to Bill Russell - and he is a GOAT (I'd have him in my top 7) - I just don't think you can point to rings as the end-all be-all. Yes - his ring-count is amazing, and he was a supremely unique talent who could control the game on the defensive end - but he played in an era that simply was not competitive compared to today's game. Your points about his achievements as a human being in a time of adversity and ultra racism are well taken, though.


-->

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

We are trying so hard to bombard this board with as many posts to illuminate the so called greatness of one man?

Listen, if he was that great, we won't need 15 posts like a political campaign trail.

Let us stop reinventing history. Lebron is not anywhere close to Jordan. I watched Jordan play. It is not about bunching up stats.

He isn't top 5.

Lets stop this stupid shit and just watch basketball. He beat a crappy ass Toronto. Give him props and move on. All of this hoopla is hiding the fact he isn't winning a chip this year.

So we have to keep shifting narratives to highlight his greatness.

Please stop. He ain't winning a chip. Let it be

>Lets stop this stupid shit and just watch basketball. He beat
>a crappy ass Toronto. Give him props and move on. All of this
>hoopla is hiding the fact he isn't winning a chip this year.

He also beat a 73 win team for a chip.

And of course he ain't winning. Jordan ass was getting
bounced by the Pistons and them before the finals.

It's all good.

-->

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

serious question

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

At this point the only thing Kobe is better at
is foul shooting.

Lebron is better at every single facet of the game.

He's a better, smarter, more efficient version of
Kobe.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>At this point the only thing Kobe is better at
>is foul shooting.
>
>Lebron is better at every single facet of the game.
>
>He's a better, smarter, more efficient version of
>Kobe.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "


-->

>Lebron is better at every single facet of the game.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Or Wilt? Or Zeek? Or Hakeem?

Answer: because you're not mad at them. They are winners. So is LeBron. To say "he's not good at winning" when he's the all-time leader in playoff advanced analytics and has had extraordinary success in the playoffs (3 rings/3 Finals MVP's/7 straight Finals Appearances) is just silly and says more about you than it does anything or anyone else.

-->

and no, Bird was not as good at winning as Tim Duncan either

so now what?

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>Answer: because you're not mad at them. They are winners. So
>is LeBron. To say "he's not good at winning" when he's the
>all-time leader in playoff advanced analytics and has had

He's the all-time leader in *some* playoff advanced analytics. He's the leader in total playoff win shares because he's played 50 more games than jordan, but jorn has a higher WS/48 and PER.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

.

I'd have Magic #3

I'm not old enough to have seen Cap's prime

...and that's the problem with these all time lists...

Nobody here is old enough to have a first hand account

It's all subjective

The debate is tired

Let Bron finish his career...then talk to me about all time

It's been all season for the last few years

Give it a fuckin break all ready

Is Bron at #2 even newsworthy today

Captain Obvious

...and you already can hear the plea cops if he makes the finals...and loses...again

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

i'd have wilt 3, but he played against midgets. he's the only other dude in consideration.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

We already did the Rushmore thing how many years ago?

No need to make this post...especially ahead of a ECF series in which they are favored

If someone doesn't have Bron top 5 = disregard their opinion.

No need to troll the board with a majority held opinion

What's the W here?

See, I told you so, Bron top 3 all time...in year 15...?

Pretty sure you needed to make that statement when he was wearing a HS jersey

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

I look at these things:

-Individual talent/game
-Individual accomplishment
-Impact on the game
-Status vs Contemporaries
-Length of that status
-Team Success/Accomplishments/make up
-Winning
-Historic impact (the most subjective so least important consideration but a good differentiator for those closely aligned)
-Era/Circumstance (The further back in history we go, the more greatness is discounted as over time the game develops and advances)

Looking at all of those things in totality:

1) Jordan
2a) Kareem
2b) LeBron
4) Wilt

5-10 (in no order); Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan
11-15 (in no order); Big O, Dr. J, Moses, Logo, Dream
16-20 (in no order); Zeke, Malone, McHale, Baylor, Gervin

By the time their careers end, I'll have guys like Curry, Durant, Harden, maybe Westbrook in this group.

____________

>I look at these things:
>
>-Individual talent/game
>-Individual accomplishment
>-Impact on the game
>-Status vs Contemporaries
>-Length of that status
>-Team Success/Accomplishments/make up
>-Winning
>-Historic impact (the most subjective so least important
>consideration but a good differentiator for those closely
>aligned)
>-Era/Circumstance (The further back in history we go, the more
>greatness is discounted as over time the game develops and
>advances)
>
>Looking at all of those things in totality:
>
>1) Jordan
>2a) Kareem
>2b) LeBron
>4) Wilt
>
>5-10 (in no order); Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan
>11-15 (in no order); Big O, Dr. J, Moses, Logo, Dream
>16-20 (in no order); Zeke, Malone, McHale, Baylor, Gervin
>
>By the time their careers end, I'll have guys like Curry,
>Durant, Harden, maybe Westbrook in this group.

How do you feel about Wade for that last group? Just curious...and I think KG has to be in that top 20...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

But I don't think they had some of the same responsibilities other guys on the list did. Wade had Shaq to get an early ring and then sunk every year after that until Bron, where he was basically a Pippen.

And KG was in no mans land until Boston.

I wouldn't be mad at swapping out a couple of guys I have in 16-20 for both, but that's about as high as I take them.

____________

>But I don't think they had some of the same responsibilities
>other guys on the list did. Wade had Shaq to get an early ring
>and then sunk every year after that until Bron, where he was
>basically a Pippen.
>
>And KG was in no mans land until Boston.
>
>I wouldn't be mad at swapping out a couple of guys I have in
>16-20 for both, but that's about as high as I take them.

As far as Wade I’m saying at least equal to people like Harden & Westbrook.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

and even more so in the playoffs

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

At least you offered some logic and went out and articulated your top 3 list - unlike others who are in here crying and failing to formulate a credible list.

-->

And Magic is my favorite player of all-time.

To round out my all-time starting five, it's a toss-up between Karl Malone and Tim Duncan.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

>To round out my all-time starting five, it's a toss-up between
>Karl Malone and Tim Duncan.

Not mad @ Duncan being there - but interesting selection re: Malone. What about his career compels you to rate him that high?


-->

that I’ve seen in my, almost 40 years, of watching the NBA, he led the charge. I didn’t like him during his time but there can be no argument about his dominance over other PFs during that period. Essentially, there’s a long period of sustained excellence, achievement, and dominance as it relates to Karl Malone.


From Wiki:

“Malone was a two-time NBA Most Valuable Player, a 14-time NBA All-Star, and an 11-time member of the All-NBA first team. His 36,928 career points scored rank second all-time in NBA history (behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), and holds the records for most free throws attempted and made, in addition to co-holding the record for the most first team All-NBA selections in history (tied with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James). He is considered one of the best power forwards in NBA history.”


2× NBA Most Valuable Player (1997, 1999)
14× NBA All-Star (1988–1998, 2000–2002)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1989, 1993)
11× All-NBA First Team (1989–1999)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1988, 2000)
All-NBA Third Team (2001)
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1997–1999)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1988)
NBA All-Rookie Team (1986)
No. 32 retired by Utah Jazz
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
Second-team All-American – NABC (1985)
Southland Player of the Year (1983)
No. 32 retired by Louisiana Tech
Louisiana Tech Athletic Hall of Fame (1992)

--- praying for peace, love, and power

One of the most sustained talents in terms of excellence in longevity the game has ever seen. I have him in my top 12 - but I do have guys like Shaq and Hakeem ahead of him because their peak dominance was so elite that it puts them over the top (to me).

-->

appears on my list.

Kareem
Wilt
Russell
David Robinson
Hakeem

It bothers me that Shaq's so-called dominance doesn't include any major accomplishments for defense, blocks, and rebounding. He never led the league in the blocks or rebounding despite his size. So I often wonder what "dominance" means as it relates to him.

Shaq was a 3x All-Defensive 2nd Team.
Robinson was a 8x All-Defensive Team. 4x on the 1st and 4x on the 2nd. He led the league in rebounding ('91) and blocks ('92).
Hakeem was 2x Defensive POY, 2x rebounding leader, 3x blocks leader, and 9x All-Defensive team. 5 on the 1st team. 4 on the 2nd team.
Wilt is an 11x rebounding champ. 2x All-Defensive team 1st team.
Russell is 4x rebounding champ. 1x 1st Team All-Defensive
Kareem is 5x 1st team All Defensive and 6x 2nd team All-Defensive. 4x blocks leader. and 1x rebounding champ.

I fail to see his "dominance" which should be on full display considering he was bigger and stronger, as well as allegedly more athletic, than his peers and even his predecessors at the position.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

>appears on my list.
>
>Kareem
>Wilt
>Russell
>Hakeem

I can see arguments for these

>David Robinson

But here...hmmm...not all sure about this.

I'm not mad at you for putting Shaq's legacy under the microscope though and if you're gonna do it, lack of defensive accolades is the way to go.

Tough sell though for a guy with 4 rings, 3 finals MVPs and 6 finals trips, a Roy, 3 allstar game MVPs and a league MVP. It is very strange he only has 1 MVP though.

>It bothers me that Shaq's so-called dominance doesn't include
>any major accomplishments for defense, blocks, and rebounding.
>He never led the league in the blocks or rebounding despite
>his size. So I often wonder what "dominance" means as it
>relates to him.
>
>Shaq was a 3x All-Defensive 2nd Team.
>Robinson was a 8x All-Defensive Team. 4x on the 1st and 4x on
>the 2nd. He led the league in rebounding ('91) and blocks
>('92).
>Hakeem was 2x Defensive POY, 2x rebounding leader, 3x blocks
>leader, and 9x All-Defensive team. 5 on the 1st team. 4 on the
>2nd team.
>Wilt is an 11x rebounding champ. 2x All-Defensive team 1st
>team.
>Russell is 4x rebounding champ. 1x 1st Team All-Defensive
>Kareem is 5x 1st team All Defensive and 6x 2nd team
>All-Defensive. 4x blocks leader. and 1x rebounding champ.
>
>I fail to see his "dominance" which should be on full display
>considering he was bigger and stronger, as well as allegedly
>more athletic, than his peers and even his predecessors at the
>position.
>
>
>
>

____________

>>appears on my list.
>>
>>Kareem
>>Wilt
>>Russell
>>Hakeem
>
>I can see arguments for these
>
>>David Robinson
>
>But here...hmmm...not all sure about this.
>
>I'm not mad at you for putting Shaq's legacy under the
>microscope though and if you're gonna do it, lack of defensive
>accolades is the way to go.
>
>Tough sell though for a guy with 4 rings, 3 finals MVPs and 6
>finals trips, a Roy, 3 allstar game MVPs and a league MVP. It
>is very strange he only has 1 MVP though.
>

Shaq wins no rings without Kobe dominating and carrying them in some cases. I'm talking more so about the things the player could do on their own which speaks even more to passion and a desire to dominate, on an individual level, in ways other than scoring. At Shaq's size, one could reasonably expect his dominance to be inclusive of owning the paint. He didn't. That's why, he's always been sort of overrated in my book.

And to add, I'm a Lakers fan who does his best to be as objective as possible. All the other subjective stuff like him just being a complete ass irks me ways that I try not to have influence my discussions on his talent and accomplishments.

Edit:
Career highlights and awards

The Admiral -

2× NBA champion (1999, 2003)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1995)
10× NBA All-Star (1990–1996, 1998, 2000, 2001)
4× All-NBA First Team (1991, 1992, 1995, 1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1994, 1998)
4× All-NBA Third Team (1990, 1993, 2000, 2001)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1991, 1992, 1995, 1996)
4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1990, 1993, 1994, 1998)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1990)
NBA Sportsmanship Award (2001)
NBA scoring champion (1994)
NBA rebounding leader (1991)
NBA blocks leader (1992)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
No. 50 retired by San Antonio Spurs
National college player of the year (1987)
Consensus first-team All-American (1987)
Consensus second-team All-American (1986)
3× CAA Player of the Year (1985–1987)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (1986)
2 Gold Medals Olympics '92, '96
1 Bronze Medal Olympics '88

Career NBA statistics
987 games
Points 20,790 (21.1 ppg)
Rebounds 10,497 (10.6 rpg)
Blocks 2,954 (3.0 bpg)

Shaquille -

4× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2006)
3× NBA Finals MVP (2000–2002)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2000)
15× NBA All-Star (1993–1998, 2000–2007, 2009)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000, 2004, 2009)
8× All-NBA First Team (1998, 2000–2006)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1995, 1999)
4× All-NBA Third Team (1994, 1996, 1997, 2009)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2000, 2001, 2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1993)
2× NBA scoring champion (1995, 2000)
NBA 50th Anniversary Team
No. 34 retired by Los Angeles Lakers
No. 32 retired by Miami Heat
FIBA World Championship MVP (1994)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (1994)
College national player of the year (1991)
2× Consensus first-team All-American (1991, 1992)
2× SEC Player of the Year (1991, 1992)
No. 33 retired by LSU
McDonald's All-American MVP (1989)
1 Gold Medal Olympics '96

Career statistics
1207 games
Points 28,596 (23.7 ppg)
Rebounds 13,099 (10.9 rpg)
Blocks 2,732 (2.3 bpg)

--- praying for peace, love, and power

how ill do you have to be to rack up 10 blocks in a game multiple times?

I'm with you.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

yall funny

---------------------------------

So i'm smokin on this cactus, bangin Fat Patrick
hustla til i die baby grindin like a savage
pimp game sweet, breakin ankles and feet
cuz these hoes break they toes til they job complete

H-Town made L.A. paid

-->

but when russell comes up it becomes 1v1 like kevin garnett isnt the best 1v1 player of all time anyways.

so the goalposts move. if anyone thinks that Bill Russell, with today's training techniques amd nutrition, woulnt dominate, theyre crazy. dude coached and played at the same time...can you imagine his mind with full access to analytics and player movement/shooting charts?

please.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Two NCAA titles, 11 NBA titles and two as player-coach. Yes he had stacked teams but that hardly explains that kind of sustained dominance alone. They also lost in the finals and conference finals to a historically great team. The last two seasons they were far from favorites. Ultimate leader, ultimate leader and perhaps the greatest defensive player ever. Certainly he is a top 10 guy but I don't think he has the offensive ability to be considered top 3. You've got to be a very complete player.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

and why are there four players on a top 3 list

-----------------------------------------

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

-->

Bron currently stands at 2, just accept it and hope that he beats the Cheat Codes (c) Dr Claw. That'll vault him to irrefutable 1. Til then, don't say weird things like accomplished talent.

-----------------------------------------

"accomplished talent" means that LeBron has actually exceeded his out of this world expectations as a Star coming out of high school.

"accomplished talent" means that he will likely end up as the game's leading scorer, and top 10 (even top 5) in assists.

"accomplished talent" means 4 MPVs and 3 Finals MVPS.

"accomplished talent" means the living all-time playoffs leader in advanced stats/analytics.

Shall I go on?


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and Mark Price has all of them

dont do my dog like that

he prolly deserves the Hall adding in college accomplishment (3x All American, 3x All-ACC)

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Those were 3 of my personal favorite players to watch. That’s it.

and im glad im not the only OKP who holds Mark Price in high regard

i actually learned something in constructing my reply, Steve Kerr credits Price with "inventing" splitting a double team off of a ball screen. nice.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>and im glad im not the only OKP who holds Mark Price in high
>regard
>
>i actually learned something in constructing my reply, Steve
>Kerr credits Price with "inventing" splitting a double team
>off of a ball screen. nice.

Yeah, I feel like that’s been brought up a few times on Open Court. Some of the others (maybe Webber and Smith?) were talking about that on there not too long ago.

>and im glad im not the only OKP who holds Mark Price in high
>regard

Mark Price was really good. If not for injuries, him and Daugherty…


>
>i actually learned something in constructing my reply, Steve
>Kerr credits Price with "inventing" splitting a double team
>off of a ball screen. nice.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

Different eras make it impossible. I’d go by tiers. That was something Simmons got right. LeBron is a no brainer tier 1 by now. If you want to start ranking them in a very specific order, that’s tricky and a never ending argument.

Kareem's career was so long that it lets us draw a line that's pretty direct from Wilt to Shaq. Statistical adjustment across eras is not all that drastic, even when you shift the gaudy numbers of Wilt and Oscar, they play out to be very strong in later eras as well.

I would agree with your statement in baseball or hockey or even American football where there have been major shifts in style and numbers as well as much longer histories of the top pro leagues.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

one was his rookie year

the other 4 were against the Pistons between 88-90, and these Celtics are NOT the Bad Boys

Jordan never went down on that Chris Webber "make the right play" bullshit. if the Bulls were losing Jordan was shooting 25 times minimum.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>
FOR AN ENTIRE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES (2011) HE AVERAGED 17.8 POINTS.

Even against the Spurs in 2007 he averaged 22 pts.

To tap the old cliche, it's not (solely) whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. That they lost to the Mavericks with him playing like that for an entire SERIES?? That's kind of why for me, he needs to win 6 for me to give him the crown, because he DAMN sure should have had four by now.

i will debate anybody on this guys,
Shaq is the most dominant of my lifetime and he changed the game period. the last 3 peat and we are talking almost 20 years despite Lebron and golden state's dominance.


Magic still ain't been matched in terms of style and how he flipped the script off day one.



Lebron best all around game. and still adding to his legacy.

Kareem the most unstoppable force in all levels of Ball period.

Bird actually more underrated and hasn't gotten enough due.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2655809&mesg_id=2655809&page=#2656400

Like I said there... I don't see it or understand this perception.

7'1 and 325 lbs. He never led the league in rebounding or blocks. He did in scoring and flair but nothing that I see indicates he was a completely dominant force. And he couldn't be counted on to close out games.

Signed,
Lakers Fan since '79

--- praying for peace, love, and power

That is legit crackhead talk but then again...you do drink Kells urine for a refreshing drink.

it's pretty simple..

Kareem had the greatest basketball career ever...and it's not even close.

He's the best High School player ever.....

He's the best College player ever....

He's the best NBA player ever...

during his time in college Freshman could not play varsity basketball...so his 1 game vs. Varsity competition was when his Freshman UCLA team played an exhibition vs. the Varsity UCLA team...which happened to be the 2-time defending National Champions...and Kareem scored 30 points and had 21 rebounds leading the Freshman to victory...

He lost 1 game in High School...

He lost 2 games over his 3 years at UCLA winning 3 National titles...

He won the NBA title in his 2nd season with the Milawakee Bucks...

All time leading scorer.....

3rd all time in rebounds....

19 All Star appearances in 20 seasons...

6 - Time league MVP...finished in the top 5 in MVP voting his first 12 years in the NBA.... and 15 out of his first 17 seasons in the NBA...

6 - Time NBA Champions



Started over 150 NBA games after the age of 40, and averaged over 12 points per game after the age of 40....

if we stick to the NBA, I go Jordan but I'm not mad at anyone who picks Kareem.

I have issues with Wilt or Russell being ahead of MJ and I think there are strong arguments against those guys.

Bron is working his way into, "if they go with Bron, I won't be mad convo" but he's not there yet. And in order for me to put him ahead of MJ, he has some road to go.

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