lol @ the idiots here who said he didn't use.
i see yall.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html

Bonds exposed
Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted: Tuesday March 7, 2006 12:55PM

NEW YORK (SI.com) -- Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.

(An excerpt of Game of Shadows that details Bonds' steroid use appears exclusively in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, which is available on newsstands beginning on Wednesday. The book's publication date is March 27.)

The authors, Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, describe in sometimes day-to-day, drug-by-drug detail how often and how deeply Bonds engaged in the persistent doping. For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

BALCO tracked Bonds' usage with doping calendars and folders -- detailing drugs, quantities, intervals and Bonds' testosterone levels -- that wound up in the hands of federal agents upon their Sept. 3, 2003 raid of the Burlingame, Calif., business.

Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, "F--- off, I'll do it myself.''

The authors compiled the information over a two-year investigation that included, but was not limited to, court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, confidential memoranda of federal agents (including statements made to them by athletes and trainers), grand jury testimony, audiotapes and interviews with more than 200 sources. Some of the information previously was reported by the authors in the Chronicle. Some of the information is new. For instance, in an extensive note on sourcing, the authors said memos detailing statements by BALCO owner Victor Conte, vice president James Valente and Anderson to IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky were sealed when they first consulted them, but have been unsealed since.

The preponderance of evidence is by far the most detailed and damning condemnation that Bonds, formerly a sleek five-tool player, built himself into a hulking, record-setting home run hitter at an advanced baseball age with a cornucopia of elaborate, illegally-administered chemicals. Through 1998, for instance, when he turned 34, Bonds averaged one home run every 16.1 at bats. Since then -- what the authors identify as the start of his doping regimen -- Bonds has hit home runs nearly twice as frequently (one every 8.5 at bats).

The authors describe how Bonds turned to steroids after the 1998 season because he was jealous of McGwire. Bonds hit 37 home runs in '98 -- a nice total and the fourth most of his career at that point -- but he was ignored by fans and the media who were captivated by McGwire's 70 home runs and his duel for the record with Sammy Sosa, who hit 66 that year.

According to the book, Bonds, in comments to his mistress, Kimberly Bell, often dismissed McGwire with racially-charged remarks such as, "They're just letting him do it because he's a white boy." But Bonds looked at McGwire and his hulking physique and decided he needed to dramatically increase his muscle mass to compete with him.

It was immediately after that 1998 season, the book said, that Bonds hooked up with Anderson, a gym rat known to obtain steroids and growth hormone from AIDS patients in San Francisco who were legally prescribed the drugs but sold them to make money. The authors write that the San Francisco Giants, Bonds' employer, would later discover through a background check that Anderson was connected to a gym that was known as a place to score steroids and that he was rumored to be a dealer. Yet the Giants -- who didn't want to upset their superstar -- continued to allow Anderson free reign about their ballpark and inside their clubhouse.

The authors write that Anderson started Bonds on Winstrol, also known as stanozolol, the longtime favorite steroid of bodybuilders, disgraced sprinter Ben Johnson and baseball player Rafael Palmeiro. In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast. He tore his triceps tendon, telling Bell that the steroids "makes me grow faster, but if you're not careful, you can blow it out."

The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well.

Bonds added more drugs after the 2000 season, when Anderson hooked up Bonds with BALCO and its founder, Conte, according to the authors. In addition to the Cream and the Clear, the steroids designed to be undetectable, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant.

Whereas Anderson's drug acumen had been forged in the gym culture, Conte and his chemists brought Bonds to another level of sophistication, by prescribing him elaborate cocktails of drugs designed to be even more effective and undetectable. For instance, the authors write that in 2002, when Bonds won his fifth MVP Award and had a .700 on-base percentage in the World Series, he was fueled by meticulous three-week cycles in which he injected growth hormone every other day, took the Cream and the Clear in the days in between, and capped the cycle with Clomid. The cycle was followed by one week off. The authors write that Anderson usually administered the drugs to Bonds at Bonds' home, using a needle to inject the growth hormone and a syringe without a needle to squirt the Clear under his tongue.

In addition to detailing the drug usage, the excerpt portrays Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat and an adulterer given to (probably because of the rampant steroid use) sexual dysfunction, hair loss and wild mood swings that included periods of rage. The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS. Theirs was a volatile relationship. Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her.

In 2003, as their relationship completely unraveled, Bell angered Bonds by showing up late for a hotel rendezvous. According to the excerpt, Bonds put his hand around her throat, pressed her against a wall and whispered, "If you ever f-----' pull some s--- like that again I'll kill you, do you understand me?"

A few weeks later, the authors write, Bonds told Bell, "You need to disappear."

In secret grand jury testimony obtained by the authors, Bonds testified that he did not know what the substances were that Anderson gave him and he put in his body, saying at one point, "It's like, 'Whatever, dude.'" Bonds testified under a grant of immunity, though he was told the immunity did not extend to perjury.

Bonds begins this season with 708 home runs, seven short of passing Babe Ruth for second on the all-time list and 48 from surpassing Hank Aaron as the all-time leader. Three knee surgeries limited Bonds to 14 games last season, have reduced his mobility and left in question his fitness for regular duty this year.

In October, Conte was sentenced to four months in prison and four months of home confinement as part of a plea deal with prosecutors. Anderson pled guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge. He was sentenced to three months in prison and three months of home confinement. Valente pled guilty to reduced charges of steroid distribution and was sentenced to probation.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth.doc0313/

The Documentation
The authors' extensive research produced compelling evidence of Bonds' use of performance enhancers


By Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams

This narrative is based on more than a thousand pages of documents and interviews with more than 200 people, many of whom we spoke to repeatedly. In our reporting on the BALCO story for the San Francisco Chronicle, we obtained transcripts of the secret grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and seven other prominent professional athletes. We also reviewed confidential memorandums detailing federal agents' interviews with other athletes and trainers who had direct knowledge of BALCO. Sealed material we reviewed also included unredacted versions of affidavits filed by the BALCO investigators; e-mail between BALCO owner Victor Conte and several athletes and coaches regarding the use and distribution of drugs; a list of evidence seized from the BALCO storage locker; and a document prepared to brief participants in the raid on BALCO.

Memos detailing the statements of Conte, BALCO vice president James Valente and Bonds's trainer, Greg Anderson, to IRS special agent Jeff Novitzky were sealed when we first reviewed them, but they have since become part of the public file in the BALCO case. The BALCO search warrant affidavits and other court records provided significant information. We also obtained a recording made without Anderson's knowledge in 2003 by a person familiar with Bonds's trainer; in it, Anderson acknowledged that Bonds was using an undetectable performance-enhancing drug to beat baseball's drug tests. Kimberly Bell, Bonds's former girlfriend, provided legal correspondence, transcripts, audiotapes of voice mail and many documents regarding her relationship with Bonds.

We conducted our interviews about BALCO from September 2003 until the autumn of '05. The names of many of our sources appear in the text or in the extensive chapter notes included in Game of Shadows. Some sources requested anonymity to avoid interfering with the federal BALCO investigation and a related grand jury probe that continued into '05. Some additional information about sources who requested anonymity appears in the chapter notes.

When they raided BALCO in September 2003, federal investigators began to accumulate evidence that Bonds was a steroid user. By the summer of '05, investigators had convincing proof that he had been using performance-enhancing drugs for years and that drugs had been provided to him by Anderson, who obtained them from BALCO and other sources. The evidence also showed that Bonds had not been truthful when he told the BALCO grand jury under oath that he hadn't knowingly used steroids.

After his grand jury appearance, Bonds continued to insist publicly that he had never used banned drugs, and the San Francisco Giants, who were paying him $90 million over five years, made no move to investigate his conduct or restrict his contact with suspected steroid dealers, arguing that there was no proof of wrongdoing.

Nevertheless, proof of Bonds's drug use exists, most of it in the possession of federal agents, much of it in the public domain. The evidence includes the statements of confessed steroid dealers, the account of a Bonds confidant as well as considerable documentary and circumstantial evidence. It also includes the account of a source familiar with Bonds who has specific knowledge of his use of banned drugs. That evidence forms the foundation of this narrative. Here is the evidence in review.

�Statements to Federal Agents

1. When he was questioned during the raid, BALCO's James Valente told Novitzky that Bonds had received the undetectable steroids the Cream and the Clear from BALCO. Valente said Anderson had brought Bonds to BALCO before the 2003 season, seeking steroids that would not show up on drug tests. Valente said he provided Anderson with drugs to give to Bonds. Valente pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge in 2005.


2. In his own statement during the raid, Conte gave an identical account of Anderson's bringing Bonds to BALCO and Bonds's subsequent use of the Cream and the Clear. Conte said Bonds used the drugs on a regular basis. Conte later claimed Novitzky's report contained words he never said. But it is significant that in 2005, Conte backed out of an evidentiary hearing in which he could have confronted Novitzky about the supposedly incorrect statements and sought to have them thrown out of court. Instead, Conte pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge.

3. When Anderson was questioned by agents on the day of the raid, he admitted giving banned drugs to many of his "baseball clients" but denied giving drugs to Bonds. In a search of Anderson's residence, agents found calendars referring to Bonds that plotted his use of steroids. When the agents sought to question Anderson about the calendars, the trainer said he didn't think he should talk anymore because he didn't want to go to jail. He pleaded guilty to steroid conspiracy and acknowledged in court that he dealt drugs to baseball players.

4. In the summer of 2004 the former Olympic shot putter C. J. Hunter told agent Novitzky that Conte had confided to him that Bonds was using the Clear. Hunter said their conversation had taken place in '03. Hunter's lawyer later said the federal agent's report was incorrect and that Conte had not implicated Bonds to Hunter.

� U.S. Grand Jury Testimony

1. In 2005 Kimberly Bell told the BALCO grand jury that in '00 Bonds had confided in her that he was using steroids, saying they helped him recover from injuries but also blaming them for the elbow injury that sidelined him in 1999.

2. In 2003 sprinter Tim Montgomery told the grand jury that when he visited BALCO in '00 or '01, he saw vials of the steroid Winstrol in BALCO's weight room. Montgomery testified that Conte said he was giving Winstrol to Bonds.

3. In 2003 five baseball players told the grand jury that they'd gotten steroids, growth hormone and other drugs from Anderson, whom they had met in his role as Bonds's trainer. The obvious import of their testimony was that they were receiving the same drugs that Anderson was giving Bonds, but the players claimed no direct knowledge of Bonds's steroid use.

� Documents

At Anderson's apartment, investigators found steroids, growth hormone and $60,000 in cash, along with a folder that contained doping calendars and other documents detailing Bonds's use of steroids. Prosecutors questioned Bonds about the documents during his appearance before the grand jury. Some document entries reflect payments for drugs for Bonds: $1,500 for two boxes of growth hormone; $450 for a bottle of Depotestosterone; $100 for 100 Clomiphene pills; $200 for the Cream and the Clear. Other entries reflect Bonds's drug cycle: For February 2002, a calendar showed alternating days of the Cream, the Clear and growth hormone followed by "Clow," or Clomid.

A document labeled "BLB 2003" listed cities where the Giants played away games in 2003, with notations for the use of growth hormone, the Clear, the Cream and insulin on specific days. Other documents associated with Bonds referred to the use of trenbolone and "beans," the Mexican steroid. At Anderson's apartment, and in a search of BALCO's trash, the agents also found evidence of Bonds's blood being sent to drug labs for steroid testing.

� Circumstantial Evidence

To some experts, the changes in Bonds's body in recent years constitute persuasive evidence of steroid use. No one at his age could put on so much muscle without using steroids, these observers reason.

According to team media guides, which are often imprecise, Bonds has grown one inch in height and gained 43 pounds since his rookie year of 1986. In 2004, the Giants reported his weight as 228, but sources familiar with Bonds say he was heavier. Bonds himself has claimed all the weight gain is muscle, not fat. In '97, when the Giants reported that he weighed 206, Bonds told USA Today that his body fat was an extraordinarily low 8%. In '02, when Bonds's weight was listed at 228, Greg Anderson told The New York Times Magazine that Bonds's body fat was even lower: 6.2%.

The belief that the changes in Bonds's body reflect steroid use is supported by the research of Harvard psychiatrist Harrison Pope, an expert on the mental-health effects of steroid abuse. In 1995, in The Clinical Journal of Sports Medicine, Pope and three colleagues published a mathematical formula for use in determining whether a person is using steroids. The "Fat-Free Mass Index," as the formula is called, predicts steroid use from a series of computations involving the subject's "lean muscle mass," which is determined from height, weight and percentage of body fat. The higher the index number, the leaner and more muscular the individual is. The average 30-year-old American male scores 20, Pope says, while the former Mr. America Steve Reeves, the most famous muscle man of the presteroid era, scored 25 in his prime. A score of more than 25 indicates steroid use.

In 1997, when Bonds reportedly weighed 206 and had 8% body fat, he scored 24.8 on the index. In 2002, when Bonds reportedly weighed 228 and had body fat of 6.2% his score was 28 -- well over the level of a "presumptive diagnosis" of steroid use.

Issue date: March 13, 2006

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

not because of its relation to Bonds just because I didnt know it existed.

are always credible.

i'm still not sure what the big controversey is though, even if he did use... it wasn't a banned substance, he didn't cheat.

i still blame hip-hop.

n/m


----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop

...

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

So if that's where you fall on this debate, then essentially, you also agree that there is nothing wrong with McGwire, Sosa, Giambi and the like, who have never been caught since its been against MLB policy right? If that's the case, it's a different argument. In essence, you believe pre-roids policy it was ok to use, and I can understand that.

I'm very much someone who dislikes the roiding even before baseball acted. It was still an illegal act. As I've said before. Fuck Bonds, fuck McGwire, fuck Giambi, fuck Sosa, Fuck palmeiro, fuck Sheffield (although in truth, I didn't like him even when I didn't think he was dirty).

I just don't wanna hear any more of that "it's never been proven" bullshit.

-------------------
RIP Puck
There'll never be anyone else quite like Kirby Puckett.

>So if that's where you fall on this debate, then essentially,
>you also agree that there is nothing wrong with McGwire, Sosa,
>Giambi and the like, who have never been caught since its been
>against MLB policy right? If that's the case, it's a different
>argument. In essence, you believe pre-roids policy it was ok
>to use, and I can understand that.
>
>I'm very much someone who dislikes the roiding even before
>baseball acted. It was still an illegal act. As I've said
>before. Fuck Bonds, fuck McGwire, fuck Giambi, fuck Sosa, Fuck
>palmeiro, fuck Sheffield (although in truth, I didn't like him
>even when I didn't think he was dirty).

I don't need a weak-ass MLB steroid policy to tell me whether or not bonds/sosa/mcguire were being dishonest.


>I just don't wanna hear any more of that "it's never been
>proven" bullshit.

that's what I'm getting at with this post.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

the people who are up in arms about players using steroids are the same ones who will bitch about a player not playing to win or going through the motions.

so you have to be willing to do anything to win, except not the stuff we tell you not to do, except it wasn't against the rules?

what the fuck kind of logic is that?

i still blame hip-hop.

Steroids and performance enhancing drugs are dishonest. In a sport that bases its identity on the all-time greats and their records, Bonds/Mcguire/Sosa's achievements are a joke to me.

>the people who are up in arms about players using steroids
>are the same ones who will bitch about a player not playing to
>win or going through the motions.
>
>so you have to be willing to do anything to win, except not
>the stuff we tell you not to do, except it wasn't against the
>rules?
>
>what the fuck kind of logic is that?

i don't know, you'll have to talk to "the people." I can only speak for myself. Steroids are not an acceptable form of 'doing whatever it takes to win'.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

getting a knee surgery that wouldn't have been possible 30 years ago is okay?

cortisone shots are cool?

anti-inflams that have at the very least strong anecdotal evidence (see: alonzo mourning; sean elliot) of causing kidney problems are okay?

so basically it's okay to take performance-enabling drugs, but not performance enhancing drugs?

i still blame hip-hop.

--------

but i know which side of the line steroids are on.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

that's why i'm asking.

it would appear that you're avoiding this argument because you know you can't win it.

that's fine.

if you want to damn a guy because you feel that he's damnable and you think he did something wrong, that's your right, but i personally think it has a lot of holes in it.

i still blame hip-hop.

they would murder other teams stars. It's not banned by baseball. That would be doing everything to win.

Reminds me of The Last Boy Scout when dude pulled out a gun and started shooting people trying to tackle him.

between steroids and anything else allowed by the mlb.

if you're debating the legality of it, sure, it's a shame that folks are breaking the law. but it's a lot less upsetting than oh, i don't know, leonard little for example.

i don't give a shit if he did or didn't. he's still the greatest player of my generation (if you want to call the players i grew up watching 'my generation') and i like watching him hit baseballs.

i still blame hip-hop.

between steroids and anything else allowed by the mlb.

if you're debating the legality of it, sure, it's a shame that folks are breaking the law. but it's a lot less upsetting than oh, i don't know, leonard little for example.

i don't give a shit if he did or didn't. he's still the greatest player of my generation (if you want to call the players i grew up watching 'my generation') and i like watching him hit baseballs.

i still blame hip-hop.

>i'm still not sure what the big controversey is though, even
>if he did use... it wasn't a banned substance, he didn't
>cheat.

from: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2217361

"Baseball ignored its own rules about steroids. In 1991, then-Commissioner Fay Vincent effectively put steroids on baseball's list of banned substances in a memo sent to all MLB teams. Baseball could not test for steroids, the memo said, but should a player be caught with steroids, he would be sent for treatment and subject to penalties. This memo was never publicized and, seemingly, was largely ignored by both management and the players' union. Commissioner Bud Selig reissued the same memo in 1997, with minor changes but with the same lack of conviction. Several GMs at the time tell ESPN the Magazine the memo probably was lost in the blizzard of other paperwork coming out of the commissioner's office."

Obviously, this "ban" is almost completely impotent, but the governing bodies for different sports do stuff like this all the time so there's a discipline mechanism in place in case somebody is stupid enough to say, get caught with steroids in their car like Manny Alexander in 2000. Alexander's only "punishment", I believe, was to be tested for steroids - which turned up negative and prompted no further disciplinary action.

In any case, it's perfectly accurate to say that baseball never demonstrated any interest in drug testing or that baseball's drug testing was so thoroughly defanged as to make it effectively non-existent. But it isn't accurate to say that steroids weren't banned.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

but like you said, it wasn't enforced in any way, and in my opinion no precedent=effectively no law.

i still blame hip-hop.

---------------------------------------
Riley: "Gangstalicious got shot, we got to do something!"

Huey: "I got an idea, lets go to college, so we don't end up like Gangstalicious."

thats the only thing i can't figure out
u see his arms and shoulders when he was in that dress?
why didn't get smaller like giambi and them?
anyway fuck barry bonds
fake ass theo huxtable ass nigga

~~~~~~

>u see his arms and shoulders when he was in that dress?

Probably a waste of time asking you to qualify with a 'no homo', but I'm sayin.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop

uh he was wearing a dress the other week for some promo shit
and alot of news was on his arms and shoulders, because they were so developed...even tho he's missed alot of time
my question is, how did he maintain that physical level if he had to stop using steriods

~~~~~~

everyone makes this assumption that with supposed stricter testing policies that everyone did a 'Lattimer' and flushed all their shit down the toilet and went cold turkey. testing is a joke, PERIOD. you can get around it. it's almost smarter to keep up with whatever youre doing than going off and shrinking like Sosa and Giambi did, cause then it makes it incredibly obvious of what you were doing in the past.

bonds is still holding a ton of water weight. dude is bloated as fuck.

I don't know why Bonds would automatically quit because his chances of being caught went from .0000000001% to .01%.

injury and illness...... Giambi had that parasidic condition that caused him to loose weight..... Ryan Klesko had a shoulder injury and thus could not work out...

Barry's injury was to his lower body, so the fact that he was out for most of the year...couldn't run....gained weight...but could still lift is why he's still got mass....

barry's performance this season will be interesting

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his eyesight as well.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

but they werent' hearing it. I feel vindicated.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

>The book said Anderson and Bonds subsequently tweaked the
>program, adding such drugs as the steroid Deca-Durabolin and
>growth hormone, which allowed Bonds to retain his energy and
>physique without rigorous training. Not only did the growth
>hormone keep him fresh, but after complaining in 1999 about
>difficulty tracking pitches, he noticed it improved his
>eyesight as well.


� Okayplayer Rookie of the Year
____

Stay calm, he got this ----> http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/2192/kbfinals258dd.jpg

a) Bonds is an asshole, which means that his defenders will use his attitude as the reason the accusations persisit and will provide for reason enough that Bonds will never be forthcoming about what he was doing with Anderson and BALCO.
b) We won't know for sure untill he dies/doesn't die in the next 10 years of massive kidney failure. Even then, his supporters will say that nothing is conclusive, like how you don't know which cigarette it is that causes lung cancer.

>b) We won't know for sure untill he dies/doesn't die in the
>next 10 years of massive kidney failure.

and strictly within 10 years? WOW. a lot of lucky cats walking around then....

And the sideeffects are all commisorate with the amount of cycles and range of drugs you're taking. If it's like these two author's are saying, he'll start showing signs very soon. but something about both Bonds' attitude and fear of what his public persona has become tells me he'll be far far from the public's eye after this season, so we may never know if his body starts failing on him.

>commisorate with the amount of
>cycles and range of drugs you're taking. If it's like these
>two author's are saying, he'll start showing signs very soon.
>but something about both Bonds' attitude and fear of what his
>public persona has become tells me he'll be far far from the
>public's eye after this season, so we may never know if his
>body starts failing on him.

__________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jaboonday

R.I.P. Dilla 1974-2006

>And the sideeffects are all commisorate with the amount of
>cycles and range of drugs you're taking.

true....

But he was/is supposedly on testosterone and GH, right? Your liver wouldnt be affected much by those two drugs.

>If it's like these
>two author's are saying, he'll start showing signs very soon.

I didn't read the article. But that's really not true, if that's what they said. How the fuck would they know what he took, or what each individual drug does/causes? Like I said, the ones that he's at least accused of taking wouldnt be a problem. But they're baseball writers - what would they know about steroids?

And in regards to your assertion that Bond's will suffer from liver failure within 10 years is really, really not true as well. Your liver is a fucking tank. It can take A LOT of abuse. The whole notion that steroids cause extensive liver damage came under false pretenses. Basically, when they first started doing tests on drug using bodybuilders, they found elevated aminotransferase levels (liver enzymes, AST/ALT's specifically). So, they made the leap in logic that steroids=liver damage without doing any further investigation. What they failed to realize at the time was that exercise-induced muscle damage (ie. lifting weights) alone can cause a rise in aminotransferase levels. More thorough indicators of liver damage need to be performed (ie. GGT) when attempting to distinguish between exercise induced muslce damage and drug induced liver damage (steroids or even more notably alcohol).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11476029&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11476029&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

No Barry Bonds didn't cheat because what he did wasn't against the rules of baseball.
End of Story

It was on the banned substances list for well over a decade when the Balco scandal broke open.

It just wasn't able to be enforced in the form of testing because of the labor agreement with the player's union.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

taking out a gun and shooting the pitcher.....So that would not be against the rules of baseball using your reasoning...although it would be illegal in society...


did he cheat..in the hair splitting manner some are using..maybe not..

but he not only did something illegal...he also is going for a record that should very much be tainted by his illegal activity....

Barry, the Players union, and MLB are all culpable in this...

but trying to gloss over what has gone on is a joke.

baseball is a joke with it's "drug testing" and "steroid policy"

barry bonds used steroids, etc, in order to threaten the all-time home run record. (along with sosa, mcguire, giami, palmiero)

that's the end of the story.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

a lot of this info is from his EX-mistress that he kicked to the curb so I'm sure she probably has an axe to grind

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Notice the authors of the book are the reporters who covered this story for the SF Chronicle. Yet neither of these guys actually, you know, reported this stuff to this extent while working with the paper. This leads me to draw two possible conclusions:

1. They were concerned about making the most many that they could out of this story. Now as someone who's worked at a few newspapers in my life, I understand this: the pay sucks (even for a large paper like the SF Chronicle)and you need to make money where you can. But also speaking as a former reporter, ethically it's kind of skeevy. Can you imagine every reporter holding out on breaking a huge story until they got a book deal?

2. Maybe they're evidence isn't as clear cut as they're letting on. When you write for a prestegious daily newspaper and you're going to print something as controversial as proof that Barry Bonds was a major steroid user for years, you better damn well make sure you've got all your ducks in a row or you are going to get yourself and the paper in some serious shit. An editor of a paper like the Chronicle wouldn't print something like this unless he/she was convinced that the story was ironclad, lest he/she begin incur a huge libel lawsuit. If you're publishing a book, the threshold sometimes isn't set as high. Sure there are fact checkers, but then again, Jose Canseco's autobiography was printed with him saying he struck out in Game 6 of the 2000 World Series.

I'm not saying what these guys wrote isn't true, but you have to look a little deeper before you except what they've wrote as total fact just because you want to believe it.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

the Chronicle was the paper that leaked the BALCO testimony and have long been the clearing house of information about athletes connected with BALCO and the grand jury since way back when.

I live in the Bay, so I've been reading this shit in the Chronicle as its unfolded. And these guys have NEVER reported that Bonds had used steroids to this extent. This is the first time they've flat out said Bonds was using steroids for years, rather than reporting someone linked to the BALCO case said they heard Bonds was being given the clear.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

personally there's too much corroborating evidence in the form of testimony and federal documents for me to really doubt the basic points these guys are making.

not to mention the fact that balco created steroid regimens. professional ball players have testified that they got these regimens from barry's trainer. and there are documents and email seized in the balco trial that have barry's fingerprints all over them.

lol @ the calendar of SF Giants away games. that's quite a coincidence.




>Notice the authors of the book are the reporters who covered
>this story for the SF Chronicle. Yet neither of these guys
>actually, you know, reported this stuff to this extent while
>working with the paper. This leads me to draw two possible
>conclusions:
>
>1. They were concerned about making the most many that they
>could out of this story. Now as someone who's worked at a few
>newspapers in my life, I understand this: the pay sucks (even
>for a large paper like the SF Chronicle)and you need to make
>money where you can. But also speaking as a former reporter,
>ethically it's kind of skeevy. Can you imagine every reporter
>holding out on breaking a huge story until they got a book
>deal?
>
>2. Maybe they're evidence isn't as clear cut as they're
>letting on. When you write for a prestegious daily newspaper
>and you're going to print something as controversial as proof
>that Barry Bonds was a major steroid user for years, you
>better damn well make sure you've got all your ducks in a row
>or you are going to get yourself and the paper in some serious
>shit. An editor of a paper like the Chronicle wouldn't print
>something like this unless he/she was convinced that the story
>was ironclad, lest he/she begin incur a huge libel lawsuit. If
>you're publishing a book, the threshold sometimes isn't set as
>high. Sure there are fact checkers, but then again, Jose
>Canseco's autobiography was printed with him saying he struck
>out in Game 6 of the 2000 World Series.
>
>I'm not saying what these guys wrote isn't true, but you have
>to look a little deeper before you except what they've wrote
>as total fact just because you want to believe it.
>

>

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

It's either not to have them at all or not to dump them.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

>It's either not to have them at all

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

I believe it. Once you've piled up a few MVPs, turning down all the sex being offered to you must be an immense administrative hassle. Unless you want to hire a secretary to review applicants, there really a whole lot of options.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

who can write up a solid non-disclosure contract.

>I believe it. Once you've piled up a few MVPs, turning down
>all the sex being offered to you must be an immense
>administrative hassle. Unless you want to hire a secretary to
>review applicants, there really a whole lot of options.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

Then wrote a book. Great.

I reckon some of this is true, some tainted, some complete BS.

---------------------------------------------------------

I mean...I have my favorite players....but I also have 2 eyes that can see....

You've seen Barry on the Pirates....

You've seen him for the last few years....

You saw Sammy on the Sox and Rangers...

You saw McGuirre on the A's early...

You saw him break Maris record....

you can count the number of years from 1964, to 2000 to now...

You see the numbers....

You know that although illegal in society, steroids were not tested for in Baseball....

You know that human growth hormones are not detectable by current testing in baseball....

You've seen all that, and for whatever reason, y'all are unwilling to admit something that is as obvious as it gets.....

just amazing.

I have been trying to communicate this shit for years, I wish you better success than I've had

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

<--- we've got bush!

doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco Giants had won a world series in their history it would matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**

but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and pleas that are being copped for this guy are just beyond amazing.

>doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco
>Giants had won a world series in their history it would
>matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**
>

...and love to take a shot at a Giant. lol!!

>but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and pleas
>that are being copped for this guy are just beyond amazing.

Its not pleas, its keeping things in perspective. Barry Bonds ain't the bad guy in all of this. HE did what everybody else did. Everybody suspects, supporters and non-supporters of Bonds,that he took *something* other than vitamins. But to pile up on him disproportionately when other players have done is what the root of the problem is.

<--- we've got bush!

>>doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco
>>Giants had won a world series in their history it would
>>matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**
>>
>
>...and love to take a shot at a Giant. lol!!

in fact I'd probably be inclined to like Barry Bonds (if he didn't come across as such a cry baby a-hole for so many years) because I like his father as a player (showing my age...lol)...

Willie McCovey is one of 5 favorite baseball players ever.....my #1 favorite Baseball player ever was the Giants manager for many years, Dusty Baker....

don't hate the Giants at all...but I am a Dodger fan..

I don't really hate any of my teams main rivals really...at least not anymore.....Love and hate don't have to co-exist in sports....

>
>>but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and pleas
>>that are being copped for this guy are just beyond amazing.
>
>Its not pleas, its keeping things in perspective.

it's pleas man....people playing the race card with a cat who 10 years ago would have cursed you out for coming at him with some Black stuff......and saying "everyone else does it" to justify or minimize the issue..

those are pleas and excuses man...

Barry Bonds
>ain't the bad guy in all of this.

yeah he is. But there are culpable elements...Major league Baseball..and the players union are culpable...but Barry Bonds is responsible for what he did..as with any grown man.

How can we say he's the stand up Black man getting attacked by the White devils, and then say that he's so weak that he is not responsible for what he does....

can't have it both ways man.

HE did what everybody else
>did.

and if my son came to me and used that as an excuse as to why he got in trouble...he's going to get in extra trouble with me......


Everybody suspects, supporters and non-supporters of
>Bonds,that he took *something* other than vitamins. But to
>pile up on him disproportionately when other players have done
>is what the root of the problem is.

he's being piled upon...yet he was given a pass on testifying in front of congress??? he's being piled upon yet he is being accused of doing something that is illegal, and he's not been arrested, indited or anything of the sort....

he's being piled upon????

no way...

the fact that a guy who is a great player is under this suspistion....and hasn't been man enough to come clean on what he's done...is a story...it's a big story, and it deserves to be covered...and even in the coverage..he's getting a pass at every turn.....Don't let his cry baby act fool you about he and his family being destroyed by the media...the facts...the plain and simple facts show that to be pure and utter bullsh*t

>>>doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco
>>>Giants had won a world series in their history it would
>>>matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**
>>>
>>
>>...and love to take a shot at a Giant. lol!!
>
>in fact I'd probably be inclined to like Barry Bonds (if he
>didn't come across as such a cry baby a-hole for so many
>years) because I like his father as a player (showing my
>age...lol)...
>
>Willie McCovey is one of 5 favorite baseball players
>ever.....my #1 favorite Baseball player ever was the Giants
>manager for many years, Dusty Baker....
>
>don't hate the Giants at all...but I am a Dodger fan..
>
>I don't really hate any of my teams main rivals really...at
>least not anymore.....Love and hate don't have to co-exist in
>sports....
>
>>
>>>but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and
>pleas
>>>that are being copped for this guy are just beyond amazing.
>>
>>Its not pleas, its keeping things in perspective.
>
>it's pleas man....people playing the race card with a cat who
>10 years ago would have cursed you out for coming at him with
>some Black stuff......and saying "everyone else does it" to
>justify or minimize the issue..
>
>those are pleas and excuses man...
>

Its not necessarily the race card. Last time I checked, Barry was on some OJ Simpson sh*t. lol!! Its not like we are talking about MLB's version of Jim Brown here.

>Barry Bonds
>>ain't the bad guy in all of this.
>
>yeah he is. But there are culpable elements...Major league
>Baseball..and the players union are culpable...but Barry Bonds
>is responsible for what he did..as with any grown man.
>

True.


>How can we say he's the stand up Black man getting attacked by
>the White devils, and then say that he's so weak that he is
>not responsible for what he does....
>

Who is saying he is a stand-up Black man. I don't think anybody is. He is man, who happens to be black, that speaks his mind and is his own person. THAT is problem for a lot of whites. Whether you are a pro-black panther type cat or a Theo Huxtable type cat?


>can't have it both ways man.
>
> HE did what everybody else
>>did.
>
>and if my son came to me and used that as an excuse as to why
>he got in trouble...he's going to get in extra trouble with
>me......
>

I'm not lessoning what he did. But if you are going to attack him in the same vile manner, lets go after everybody. Everybody is fair game. Steriods, cheating was as much as part of the game as chewing tabacco. Let's be real. MLB knew it and did nothing about it, which enabled the use and really suggests they approved of it.


>
>Everybody suspects, supporters and non-supporters of
>>Bonds,that he took *something* other than vitamins. But to
>>pile up on him disproportionately when other players have
>done
>>is what the root of the problem is.
>
>he's being piled upon...yet he was given a pass on testifying
>in front of congress??? he's being piled upon yet he is being
>accused of doing something that is illegal, and he's not been
>arrested, indited or anything of the sort....
>
>he's being piled upon????
>
>no way...
>

Yes he is being piled upon. Everything that is coming out is nothing new. Why should this be any shock. Its just redundant and reaks of an agenda. Its the same thing over and over again. Its character assasination. The fact that he is black, successful, and isn't a programmed robot adds fuel to the fire, Warren. Come on, let's be real. You know this.

>the fact that a guy who is a great player is under this
>suspistion....and hasn't been man enough to come clean on what
>he's done...is a story...it's a big story, and it deserves to
>be covered...and even in the coverage..he's getting a pass at
>every turn.....Don't let his cry baby act fool you about he
>and his family being destroyed by the media...the facts...the
>plain and simple facts show that to be pure and utter
>bullsh*t
>
>


Getting a pass? Warren, are you serious!? Now THAT is bullsh*t. What newspaper do you read and what news channels do you watch? You would think Barry is Satan, from everything I read and hear on then news. Its way overboard. Sure, Barry brought some of this on himself. But the media is trying to destroy him when they know good and well that they have an agenda that is bigger than seeking "justice" against Bonds only for the simple fact that he ALLEGEDLY knew he took steriods.

<--- we've got bush!

>>>>doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco
>>>>Giants had won a world series in their history it would
>>>>matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**
>>>>
>>>
>>>...and love to take a shot at a Giant. lol!!
>>
>>in fact I'd probably be inclined to like Barry Bonds (if he
>>didn't come across as such a cry baby a-hole for so many
>>years) because I like his father as a player (showing my
>>age...lol)...
>>
>>Willie McCovey is one of 5 favorite baseball players
>>ever.....my #1 favorite Baseball player ever was the Giants
>>manager for many years, Dusty Baker....
>>
>>don't hate the Giants at all...but I am a Dodger fan..
>>
>>I don't really hate any of my teams main rivals really...at
>>least not anymore.....Love and hate don't have to co-exist
>in
>>sports....
>>
>>>
>>>>but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and
>>pleas
>>>>that are being copped for this guy are just beyond
>amazing.
>>>
>>>Its not pleas, its keeping things in perspective.
>>
>>it's pleas man....people playing the race card with a cat
>who
>>10 years ago would have cursed you out for coming at him
>with
>>some Black stuff......and saying "everyone else does it" to
>>justify or minimize the issue..
>>
>>those are pleas and excuses man...
>>
>
>Its not necessarily the race card. Last time I checked, Barry
>was on some OJ Simpson sh*t. lol!! Its not like we are talking
>about MLB's version of Jim Brown here.

exactly....not you, but others on this board have acted like Barry Bonds was Paul robeson or something....lol

dude is conveniently Black....when he's in trouble ya know...

>
>>Barry Bonds
>>>ain't the bad guy in all of this.
>>
>>yeah he is. But there are culpable elements...Major league
>>Baseball..and the players union are culpable...but Barry
>Bonds
>>is responsible for what he did..as with any grown man.
>>
>
>True.
>
>
>>How can we say he's the stand up Black man getting attacked
>by
>>the White devils, and then say that he's so weak that he is
>>not responsible for what he does....
>>
>
>Who is saying he is a stand-up Black man. I don't think
>anybody is.

stick around this post..you'll see it....lol.

He is man, who happens to be black, that speaks
>his mind and is his own person. THAT is problem for a lot of
>whites. Whether you are a pro-black panther type cat or a Theo
>Huxtable type cat?

aww Jam.....You hurt my heart brother.....What would make Theo huxtable the antithesis of being a pro-black panther??? The guys who started the Panthers were educated folks....being bright and carrying yourself with that type of dignity doesn't mean one can't be revolutionary pro-Black......

and remember Theo's character chose a career in educating young people, which is very much in line with the Black panther agenda no???

I know that it's totally off topic, and I may be a bit touchy today, but since you're someone I respect on here I feel it cool to say that....A "Theo" type isn't going to face any less challenges from a White power structure than a kid from the streets..and in fact will probably face more......So they don't need us to divide them away from being "pro-Black"

can't have it both ways man.
>>
>> HE did what everybody else
>>>did.
>>
>>and if my son came to me and used that as an excuse as to
>why
>>he got in trouble...he's going to get in extra trouble with
>>me......
>>
>
>I'm not lessoning what he did. But if you are going to attack
>him in the same vile manner, lets go after everybody.

How vile is it though Jam??? I don't see anything vile at all about how he's being treated.....the most famous player in a sport is being accused of something that is not only illegal, but also calls into question his accomplishments...

are they supposed to NOT cover the story??

are they dragging his late father, or his wife and kids through the mud??? are the going after his godfather Willie Mays as being Culpable???

The only think close to it was them reporting what his mistress said under oath....had she just said they had an affair, they wouldn't have covered it...but she said he was on roids, so that made it news.


>Everybody is fair game. Steriods, cheating was as much as part
>of the game as chewing tabacco.

Chewing tabacco is not illegal.

Let's be real. MLB knew it and
>did nothing about it, which enabled the use and really
>suggests they approved of it.

and MLB is responsible for that...I agree.

>
>
>>
>>Everybody suspects, supporters and non-supporters of
>>>Bonds,that he took *something* other than vitamins. But to
>>>pile up on him disproportionately when other players have
>>done
>>>is what the root of the problem is.
>>
>>he's being piled upon...yet he was given a pass on
>testifying
>>in front of congress??? he's being piled upon yet he is
>being
>>accused of doing something that is illegal, and he's not
>been
>>arrested, indited or anything of the sort....
>>
>>he's being piled upon????
>>
>>no way...
>>
>
>Yes he is being piled upon. Everything that is coming out is
>nothing new. Why should this be any shock.

it's enough of a shock for people to continue to deny he's on roids, or to make excuses.

and really the fact he hasn't come clean is another reason.

Its just redundant
>and reaks of an agenda.

So you're saying that folks should just forget about it...or pretend that he hasn't used roids??? It's a big story, and it's a story that's gonna get covered.

Its the same thing over and over
>again.

actually it's DIFFERENT PEOPLE saying the same thing...and since there are folks who are still defending him....since he's still denying it.....and since he's on pace to set some pretty monumental records...it's still a story in progress.

Its character assasination.

no..it's a guy getting his card pulled, and getting exposed for a truth, he continues to lie about. That happens when you cheat..and when you do things that are illegal.


The fact that he is black,
>successful, and isn't a programmed robot adds fuel to the
>fire, Warren. Come on, let's be real. You know this.


But Black people being treated differently in society is a given. That's how it works. But that doesn't change the fact that the guy was on steroids. and that steroids are illegal.


>
>>the fact that a guy who is a great player is under this
>>suspistion....and hasn't been man enough to come clean on
>what
>>he's done...is a story...it's a big story, and it deserves
>to
>>be covered...and even in the coverage..he's getting a pass
>at
>>every turn.....Don't let his cry baby act fool you about he
>>and his family being destroyed by the media...the
>facts...the
>>plain and simple facts show that to be pure and utter
>>bullsh*t
>>
>>
>
>
>Getting a pass? Warren, are you serious!? Now THAT is
>bullsh*t. What newspaper do you read and what news channels do
>you watch?

They are covering a big story...that's what the media does.

You would think Barry is Satan, from everything I
>read and hear on then news.

no..you would think he used steroids.

Its way overboard. Sure, Barry
>brought some of this on himself.
But the media is trying to
>destroy him when they know good and well that they have an
>agenda that is bigger than seeking "justice" against Bonds
>only for the simple fact that he ALLEGEDLY knew he took
>steriods.

By getting a pass...I meant that he, even though being the most recognized Baseball player in the world.....with the greatest level of suspision...was not called to testify as others were in front of congress...

so explain that....how is he getting demonized like you're saying, yet wasn't seen as being needed to testify in front of congress????

>>>>>doesn't mean a lot nowadays...maybe if the San Francisco
>>>>>Giants had won a world series in their history it would
>>>>>matter...but since they haven't **shrugs**
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>...and love to take a shot at a Giant. lol!!
>>>
>>>in fact I'd probably be inclined to like Barry Bonds (if he
>>>didn't come across as such a cry baby a-hole for so many
>>>years) because I like his father as a player (showing my
>>>age...lol)...
>>>
>>>Willie McCovey is one of 5 favorite baseball players
>>>ever.....my #1 favorite Baseball player ever was the Giants
>>>manager for many years, Dusty Baker....
>>>
>>>don't hate the Giants at all...but I am a Dodger fan..
>>>
>>>I don't really hate any of my teams main rivals really...at
>>>least not anymore.....Love and hate don't have to co-exist
>>in
>>>sports....
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>but seriously...I'm just being honest..the excuses and
>>>pleas
>>>>>that are being copped for this guy are just beyond
>>amazing.
>>>>
>>>>Its not pleas, its keeping things in perspective.
>>>
>>>it's pleas man....people playing the race card with a cat
>>who
>>>10 years ago would have cursed you out for coming at him
>>with
>>>some Black stuff......and saying "everyone else does it" to
>>>justify or minimize the issue..
>>>
>>>those are pleas and excuses man...
>>>
>>
>>Its not necessarily the race card. Last time I checked,
>Barry
>>was on some OJ Simpson sh*t. lol!! Its not like we are
>talking
>>about MLB's version of Jim Brown here.
>
>exactly....not you, but others on this board have acted like
>Barry Bonds was Paul robeson or something....lol
>
>dude is conveniently Black....when he's in trouble ya know...
>
>>
>>>Barry Bonds
>>>>ain't the bad guy in all of this.
>>>
>>>yeah he is. But there are culpable elements...Major league
>>>Baseball..and the players union are culpable...but Barry
>>Bonds
>>>is responsible for what he did..as with any grown man.
>>>
>>
>>True.
>>
>>
>>>How can we say he's the stand up Black man getting attacked
>>by
>>>the White devils, and then say that he's so weak that he is
>>>not responsible for what he does....
>>>
>>
>>Who is saying he is a stand-up Black man. I don't think
>>anybody is.
>
>stick around this post..you'll see it....lol.
>
> He is man, who happens to be black, that speaks
>>his mind and is his own person. THAT is problem for a lot of
>>whites. Whether you are a pro-black panther type cat or a
>Theo
>>Huxtable type cat?
>
>aww Jam.....You hurt my heart brother.....What would make Theo
>huxtable the antithesis of being a pro-black panther??? The
>guys who started the Panthers were educated folks....being
>bright and carrying yourself with that type of dignity doesn't
>mean one can't be revolutionary pro-Black......
>

I got you. I look at Cosby being a revolutionary, pro-black. Even though his style is what people would think is the antithesis of that. I'm just talking on the surface and the presentation. Cuz, quiet as kept, the Panthers loved them some white women. lol!!!


>and remember Theo's character chose a career in educating
>young people, which is very much in line with the Black
>panther agenda no???
>

Yes, Warren. I know. lol!!


>I know that it's totally off topic, and I may be a bit touchy
>today, but since you're someone I respect on here I feel it
>cool to say that....A "Theo" type isn't going to face any less
>challenges from a White power structure than a kid from the
>streets..and in fact will probably face more......So they
>don't need us to divide them away from being "pro-Black"
>

I disagree. He will face challenges, but not as much. Its the presentation and image. A "Theo" type would have a better shot in the coporate-structure than say a "Jim Brown" type. Both are higly educated and intellectual, but the image is different. Unfortunately that is the way it is. Shouldn't be that way, but it is that way.

>can't have it both ways man.
>>>
>>> HE did what everybody else
>>>>did.
>>>
>>>and if my son came to me and used that as an excuse as to
>>why
>>>he got in trouble...he's going to get in extra trouble with
>>>me......
>>>
>>
>>I'm not lessoning what he did. But if you are going to
>attack
>>him in the same vile manner, lets go after everybody.
>
>How vile is it though Jam??? I don't see anything vile at all
>about how he's being treated.....the most famous player in a
>sport is being accused of something that is not only illegal,
>but also calls into question his accomplishments...
>
>are they supposed to NOT cover the story??
>

I'm not saying to NOT cover the story. They should be on it. Just like the situation with Gretzki and his wife. They were on it. BUT, the comments I hear and read from day-to-day being made by Bonds disturb me. Its over the line. Its in a vile manner. And I think this is the perfect avenue to channel whatever pent-up hatred people have and place it on Barry.

>are they dragging his late father, or his wife and kids
>through the mud??? are the going after his godfather Willie
>Mays as being Culpable???
>
>The only think close to it was them reporting what his
>mistress said under oath....had she just said they had an
>affair, they wouldn't have covered it...but she said he was on
>roids, so that made it news.
>
>
>>Everybody is fair game. Steriods, cheating was as much as
>part
>>of the game as chewing tabacco.
>
>Chewing tabacco is not illegal.
>

Yes, I hear you. Barry WAS wrong IF he did KNOWINGLY do that stuff. Nothing has been proven in a court of law.

>Let's be real. MLB knew it and
>>did nothing about it, which enabled the use and really
>>suggests they approved of it.
>
>and MLB is responsible for that...I agree.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Everybody suspects, supporters and non-supporters of
>>>>Bonds,that he took *something* other than vitamins. But to
>>>>pile up on him disproportionately when other players have
>>>done
>>>>is what the root of the problem is.
>>>
>>>he's being piled upon...yet he was given a pass on
>>testifying
>>>in front of congress??? he's being piled upon yet he is
>>being
>>>accused of doing something that is illegal, and he's not
>>been
>>>arrested, indited or anything of the sort....
>>>
>>>he's being piled upon????
>>>
>>>no way...
>>>

The Congress he was given a pass. But I think there was a reason for that. And I think there is a lot more to this story that is being reported. A whole lot more! But I understand where you are coming from.


>>
>>Yes he is being piled upon. Everything that is coming out is
>>nothing new. Why should this be any shock.
>
>it's enough of a shock for people to continue to deny he's on
>roids, or to make excuses.
>
>and really the fact he hasn't come clean is another reason.
>
> Its just redundant
>>and reaks of an agenda.
>
>So you're saying that folks should just forget about it...or
>pretend that he hasn't used roids??? It's a big story, and
>it's a story that's gonna get covered.
>

No. Being covered is one thing. But that attitude of the media that is there is beyond just merely "seeking justice".

> Its the same thing over and over
>>again.
>
>actually it's DIFFERENT PEOPLE saying the same thing...and
>since there are folks who are still defending him....since
>he's still denying it.....and since he's on pace to set some
>pretty monumental records...it's still a story in progress.
>
>Its character assasination.
>
>no..it's a guy getting his card pulled, and getting exposed
>for a truth, he continues to lie about. That happens when you
>cheat..and when you do things that are illegal.
>

I don't think Bonds is being exposed. I think its kind of assumed that everybody knows what happened with him, even Bonds.

>
> The fact that he is black,
>>successful, and isn't a programmed robot adds fuel to the
>>fire, Warren. Come on, let's be real. You know this.
>
>
>But Black people being treated differently in society is a
>given. That's how it works. But that doesn't change the fact
>that the guy was on steroids. and that steroids are illegal.
>
>

No, it doesn't.


>>
>>>the fact that a guy who is a great player is under this
>>>suspistion....and hasn't been man enough to come clean on
>>what
>>>he's done...is a story...it's a big story, and it deserves
>>to
>>>be covered...and even in the coverage..he's getting a pass
>>at
>>>every turn.....Don't let his cry baby act fool you about he
>>>and his family being destroyed by the media...the
>>facts...the
>>>plain and simple facts show that to be pure and utter
>>>bullsh*t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Getting a pass? Warren, are you serious!? Now THAT is
>>bullsh*t. What newspaper do you read and what news channels
>do
>>you watch?
>
>They are covering a big story...that's what the media does.
>
> You would think Barry is Satan, from everything I
>>read and hear on then news.
>
>no..you would think he used steroids.
>
>Its way overboard. Sure, Barry
>>brought some of this on himself.
> But the media is trying to
>>destroy him when they know good and well that they have an
>>agenda that is bigger than seeking "justice" against Bonds
>>only for the simple fact that he ALLEGEDLY knew he took
>>steriods.
>
>By getting a pass...I meant that he, even though being the
>most recognized Baseball player in the world.....with the
>greatest level of suspision...was not called to testify as
>others were in front of congress...
>

Again, that was some behind the scenes stuff with Congress and MLB. That is why I said, there is a lot more to why he wasn't called.

>so explain that....how is he getting demonized like you're
>saying, yet wasn't seen as being needed to testify in front of
>congress????
>

But the only thing you are referring to is the Congress situation. He is already being tried in the media and by a grand jury. The preponderance of character assassination attempts against Barry is enourmous in the media. That is what I'm talking about.