Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #102658

Subject: "Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Sat Jul-19-14 06:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Poll question: Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?"


          

When people talk about Kevin Love the first thing they do is talk about his stats.

Much like Chris Bosh leaving Toronto going to Miami, Love's stats are most likely going to drop quite a bit going to a team with 2 other All-stars where he'll be the 2nd or possibly the 3rd option.

So then you have to look past the stats and determine what he'll actually bring to a team with Lebron and Kyrie and determine if that's really worth a max contract.

Poll result (62 votes)
Yes (25 votes)Vote
No (37 votes)Vote

  

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
What do you want out of a number one pick?
Jul 17th 2014
1
Another rumor..nothing official.
Aug 05th 2014
409
What do you want out of a number one pick?
Jul 17th 2014
2
not sure how any of this is even debatable.
Jul 17th 2014
3
      I guess it comes down to how good you actually think Kevin Love is...
Jul 17th 2014
5
      You need Wiggins to be good inside of one year, two max
Jul 17th 2014
10
      Not "eventually" even, how about "immediately?"
Jul 17th 2014
11
      Maybe not if I had a guarantee Hans stays healthy but anyone else, sure
Jul 18th 2014
29
Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +
Jul 17th 2014
4
RE: Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +
Jul 17th 2014
6
he doesnt have to
Jul 17th 2014
8
      RE: he doesnt have to
Jul 18th 2014
28
This is actually a good point:
Jul 17th 2014
14
      IMO that is a misleading stat though
Jul 18th 2014
63
Why not play it out a month or two into the season?
Jul 17th 2014
7
Twolves will move him
Jul 17th 2014
9
well said and now we see why this poll is swinging
Jul 17th 2014
13
That underestimates how singular of a commodity Love is.
Jul 17th 2014
12
^^ yup, the real turning point is rookie deal v. Kevin Love's $$$
Jul 18th 2014
50
      Flexibility for what? So they could sign a worse player than Love?
Jul 18th 2014
64
           Cavs roster, as is, has 3 All-Stars on it; they need rotation guys
Jul 18th 2014
72
                They dont have four years to wait and why should they?
Jul 18th 2014
141
                     that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns
Jul 18th 2014
159
                          RE: that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns
Jul 18th 2014
177
                               but we've just seen how the 3 MAX player scenario plays out
Jul 18th 2014
191
                                    Teams with three max players have won 5 of the last 7 chips lmap
Jul 18th 2014
204
                                    i love how the heat have become this failed experiment/cautionary tale
Jul 18th 2014
214
                                    MIA was one rebound away for being 1 for 4, only won in the lockout year
Jul 18th 2014
217
                                         the heat's window was small b/c wade got old overnight.
Jul 18th 2014
221
                                         They went to the Finals FOUR TIMES. Even if they Buffalo Billed it
Jul 19th 2014
228
                                    Each of those big 3's has a 2-way big as one of the max deals
Jul 18th 2014
218
                                         they wouldn't need *another* top dollar 2-way big on top of their big 3 ...
Jul 18th 2014
220
                                         "cheap" rim protectors? you know how much Hibbert gets paid, right?
Jul 18th 2014
222
                                         they could find one in the draft.
Jul 18th 2014
224
                                         If only it was that easy to project effective bigs
Jul 18th 2014
225
                                              I know, for every Ibaka, there's 2 or 3 Biyombo's and Rudy Gobert's
Jul 18th 2014
226
                                                   umm, what's wrong with biyombo or gobert?
Jul 20th 2014
239
                                                        aiyo.. seriously tho, guys...
Jul 22nd 2014
287
                                         You can keep repeating this, but it won't make it meaningful
Jul 20th 2014
233
                                              You repeatedly saying it isn't meaningful doesn't make that meaningful
Jul 20th 2014
242
                                                   Again, I'm just not seeing a net gain with Wiggins/dealbreaker w/Love
Jul 21st 2014
250
                                                   why not go after Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
251
                                                        And what do they use to acquire Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
255
                                                             Suddenly, I'm the guy under appreciating Hibbert?
Jul 21st 2014
262
                                                                  huh?
Jul 22nd 2014
272
                                                                       waiters/bennett really wouldn't get hibbert?
Jul 22nd 2014
275
                                                                            Conversation started? Sure. Deal done? I'm not as sure
Jul 23rd 2014
295
                                                   but it isn't.
Jul 21st 2014
253
                                                        EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson
Jul 21st 2014
256
                                                             dudes are tripping.
Jul 22nd 2014
267
                                                                  both of them are cheap because they're on rookie contracts
Jul 22nd 2014
276
                                                                       nothing's stopping CLE from drafting / trading for a guy...
Jul 22nd 2014
277
                                                                            an nba championship team doesn't start mozgov or mahinmi
Jul 22nd 2014
278
                                                                                 EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson
Jul 22nd 2014
279
                                                                                 to be honest...
Jul 22nd 2014
282
                                                                                 an nba championship team doesn't start haslem and joel anthony at center
Jul 22nd 2014
280
                                                                                 Biyombo didn't get enough meaningful minutes for those stats to matter
Jul 22nd 2014
286
                                                                                 question:
Jul 22nd 2014
288
                                                                                 Lopez would be nice. but he's not "cheap" anymore
Jul 23rd 2014
321
                                                                                 ok i see.
Jul 23rd 2014
352
                                                                                 it's not unreasonable
Jul 23rd 2014
355
                                                                                 it's a challenge i'd gladly welcome.
Jul 23rd 2014
357
                                                                                 Why not? They could get three or four such guys for $ of Hibbert
Jul 23rd 2014
343
                                                                                 playing next to duncan vs. next to love matters, imo
Jul 23rd 2014
351
                                                                                 why were people posting like they didnt have varejao and thompson tho?
Nov 02nd 2014
519
                                    "the best draft prospect in years"?
Jul 18th 2014
212
I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely
Jul 17th 2014
15
This is where I'm at:
Jul 18th 2014
16
RE: I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely
Jul 18th 2014
19
Sure, but they have completely different defensive roles
Jul 18th 2014
22
Exactly, his strengths are already the Cavs strengths
Jul 18th 2014
20
Bro, WTF does Bosh have to do with it?
Jul 18th 2014
68
      The point is you need rim and paint protection
Jul 18th 2014
135
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg
Jul 18th 2014
17
No - and I luls me some K Love but he plays ABSOLUTELY NO defense
Jul 18th 2014
18
So? Is Wiggins going to be their presence inside?
Jul 18th 2014
65
the NO votes are insane to me
Jul 18th 2014
21
I'm saying, WTF, how is this thing still basically even?
Jul 18th 2014
67
I'd at LEAST wait until the trade deadline.
Jul 18th 2014
23
It will HURT the CAVS defensively
Jul 18th 2014
24
Let's look at this from all angles:
Jul 18th 2014
25
i think they can win either way
Jul 18th 2014
26
If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb ass
Jul 18th 2014
27
it really is hard to believe.
Jul 18th 2014
34
U & I'll be back in this post later surveying the wreckage like this one...
Jul 24th 2014
360
RE: If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb...
Jul 18th 2014
46
/post
Jul 18th 2014
92
yes, over and over and over.
Jul 18th 2014
30
Cleveland has to try and win now..
Jul 18th 2014
31
I agree, this is their window
Jul 18th 2014
32
      if they think he won't leave again for a chance to win chips
Jul 18th 2014
33
           and that's the thing, keeping Wiggins even if Lebron leaves you still...
Jul 18th 2014
44
                but they're betting on winning & keeping Bron the rest of his career
Jul 18th 2014
116
What about opportunity cost?
Jul 18th 2014
35
Love's stats likely dropping doesn't matter
Jul 18th 2014
36
meh if lebron really is pushing for this then it's good as done
Jul 18th 2014
37
In all the months building up to the draft
Jul 18th 2014
43
      yea i'm talking about the excitement now
Jul 18th 2014
47
Y'all think Kyrie taking a backseat to Love?
Jul 18th 2014
38
Right, Love is going to be on Chris Bosh 3rd banana status and that's...
Jul 18th 2014
40
      he's more accomplished than kyrie and better offensively than bosh
Jul 18th 2014
41
           "more accomplished" in what regard?
Jul 18th 2014
42
                every?
Jul 18th 2014
45
                     neither one has ever been to the playoffs so neither has accomplished...
Jul 18th 2014
52
                          k
Jul 18th 2014
54
Lol, no brainer. Bird in the hand >>>>
Jul 18th 2014
39
it's 13+ boards, man...and if they throw in dieng...you HAVE to do it
Jul 18th 2014
48
Ok, so would the Cavs be the fav to win it all if they got Love?
Jul 18th 2014
49
whatever. Cavs come out the East.
Jul 18th 2014
51
And they can do that *without* Love lol but even w/Love I don't
Jul 18th 2014
55
lol, Kyrie didn't want to share the ball with Waiters and now he's gotta...
Jul 18th 2014
57
no...WAITERS gonna have to share the ball. Kyrie will be fine.
Jul 18th 2014
66
      I basically agree with you about Kyrie which is why I think Love is goin...
Jul 18th 2014
78
           it's more about his skills than his stats...
Jul 18th 2014
101
                I don't know, playing with 2 penetrators like Lebron and Kryie, Love...
Jul 18th 2014
118
                     he's been perimeter oriented. he's worked on improving range every year
Jul 18th 2014
128
                          right, and his rebounding numbers are going in the opposite direction
Jul 18th 2014
130
                               not really...there's not legit correlation there
Jul 18th 2014
132
nah, they're still behind the Spurs
Jul 18th 2014
59
that's thing, people are acting Love = automatic title when that ain't.....
Jul 18th 2014
73
      i don't think people are acting like that
Jul 18th 2014
80
To win it all? We don't know yet. To win the East? YES.
Jul 18th 2014
62
nah. which undermines the biggest part of the pro-Love argument
Jul 18th 2014
71
      my point exactly, lol
Jul 18th 2014
79
      ^^Egg zacklee.....if they (meaning Bron/front office) think by adding
Jul 18th 2014
81
      rose got locked up by bron when he was an uncut 100%...FOH!
Jul 18th 2014
87
      yeah I think Indy is still a bigger threat even without Stephens...
Jul 18th 2014
91
      ain't nobody scared of rose or the buLLs
Jul 18th 2014
90
      that assumes that Wiggins turns out to be great instead of Larry Hughes
Jul 18th 2014
94
      He will be better than Larry Hughes but the people thinking ...
Jul 21st 2014
258
      lol, how is it not likely to win now?
Jul 18th 2014
170
^^^This I agree with
Jul 18th 2014
53
where is this dieng rumor coming from?
Jul 18th 2014
60
      He's a piece that is in play and has the kind of contract that fits
Jul 18th 2014
70
      cavs pursuing this shit more than the wolves at this point
Jul 18th 2014
75
           rightfully so because the wolves can find another suitor for love wherea...
Jul 18th 2014
142
      I haven't seen him mentioned outside of this board
Jul 18th 2014
82
           its some "only on OKS" shit, lol
Jul 18th 2014
86
           yikes lmao
Jul 18th 2014
88
           it's on twitter, where all the rumors are
Jul 18th 2014
108
Wait they're talking about Dieng too?
Jul 18th 2014
61
      yes...that's why nothing's done. cavs want more for wiggins.
Jul 18th 2014
69
           That changes everything for me. Love PLUS Dieng for Wiggins...
Jul 18th 2014
77
                I agree with this
Jul 18th 2014
83
                Yeah, there's no reason you should give up your best player and...
Jul 18th 2014
115
                the thing is, there's no urgency for Minnesota, they can drag this out.....
Jul 18th 2014
84
                a half season rental vs. full season might hurt his trade value
Jul 18th 2014
93
                     Nobody is going to trade major assets for Love without him signing a new...
Jul 18th 2014
123
                          if he doesn't want to, and they're desperate enough, they will.
Jul 18th 2014
139
                Agreed. He solves a huge need for the Cavs going forward.
Jul 18th 2014
134
                Minny would be really silly to include Dieng
Jul 18th 2014
137
you niggers are acting like wig got a hummer in hs
Jul 18th 2014
56
lol
Jul 18th 2014
58
ha
Jul 18th 2014
95
lol
Jul 18th 2014
147
"the best draft prospect in years", apparently.
Jul 18th 2014
216
dyin.. lol
Jul 21st 2014
246
Why would they have to do this right now?
Jul 18th 2014
74
learn from the Knicks mistakes with Melo...
Jul 18th 2014
76
It's a NO for me. I think Wiggins is the real deal. CLE will regret
Jul 18th 2014
85
But if they win 2 titles in that time before he gets old and retires...
Jul 18th 2014
89
      I'm sayin. People talking 5 years from now as if Lebron is 25
Jul 18th 2014
96
      dude is 30 & Kawhi was eating his lunch the last 3 games of the finals
Jul 18th 2014
121
           And some of that (imo) was fatigue from having to guard Kawhi
Jul 18th 2014
131
                it was the overall load on Bron which at 23 wouldn't have been an issue
Jul 18th 2014
182
      that's thing, most people think that even with Love it won't be enough.....
Jul 18th 2014
97
      Like they thought past prime KG/Ray Allen/Pierce wasn't enough
Jul 18th 2014
99
           lol, KG was still in his prime when he came to Boston, I remember most.....
Jul 18th 2014
105
           Idiot, they said Pierce/KG wasn't enough (sans Ray)
Jul 18th 2014
199
      Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking
Jul 18th 2014
100
           How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?
Jul 18th 2014
102
           RE: How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?
Jul 18th 2014
109
           RE: Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking
Jul 18th 2014
122
                Suprised with all the LAL fans on here that nobody's made the Showtime
Jul 18th 2014
140
                     Remember when the sixers had 3 #1 picks and sucked
Jul 18th 2014
193
                          AI, Chris webber and who else?
Jul 18th 2014
194
                               I think it was Smith, Coleman and AI
Jul 18th 2014
205
If Danny Ainge was Cleveland's GM, Love would already be in Cleveland
Jul 18th 2014
98
oh no doubt ainge living off that 1 chip for a minute
Jul 18th 2014
104
Right, I said in another post Ainge's best move as a GM was actually...
Jul 18th 2014
107
they won a title and went to the finals another time...just stop
Jul 18th 2014
112
could have just said "cosign"
Jul 18th 2014
114
true
Jul 18th 2014
119
      lol
Jul 18th 2014
148
LMFAO
Jul 18th 2014
Uh, they also were within one game of a second title
Jul 21st 2014
257
And yet Danny Ainge is Boston's GM...
Jul 18th 2014
106
lol
Jul 18th 2014
110
right, lol
Jul 18th 2014
111
They haven't been lucky to tank & Danny Ocean the lottery 5 yrs in a row
Jul 18th 2014
120
      But but but but they have Fenway Park and an Ortiz Boston-cosign!
Jul 18th 2014
124
KG was the best defensive player in the game when they won
Jul 18th 2014
144
Of course not but you're putting Love next to THE best player in the gam...
Jul 18th 2014
210
most likely, but i do think this will get done eventually
Jul 18th 2014
171
no...Cavs have all of the leverage.
Jul 18th 2014
103
You HAVE TO roll the dice with Wiggins
Jul 18th 2014
113
no you don't
Jul 18th 2014
117
lol...
Jul 18th 2014
125
Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?
Jul 18th 2014
133
      RE: Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?
Jul 18th 2014
151
           He probably won't do a full max extension
Jul 18th 2014
163
                Love's style of play puts a lot of wear and tear on his body, I think he...
Jul 18th 2014
167
RE: cap flexibility
Jul 18th 2014
126
with older versions of mike miller and ray allen of course
Jul 18th 2014
127
      right, both of those dudes were running on fumes last year, lol
Jul 18th 2014
129
That's a lot of wrong packed into a little space. Bravo.
Jul 18th 2014
179
All I know is a Kyrie/Love/Old Guy 2 Guard super ain't stopping anyone
Jul 18th 2014
136
^^^REAL TALK
Jul 18th 2014
152
^^^ keen PEEPOLOGY
Jul 18th 2014
165
I'm not convinced that CLE is necessarily a better situation than
Jul 21st 2014
252
Just read Lamarcus will be a FA at the end of the season as well as
Jul 18th 2014
138
None of those guys will hit the market as UFAs. Not one.
Jul 18th 2014
143
LOL you ain't getting them
Jul 18th 2014
145
here are my thoughts:
Jul 18th 2014
146
It's the Showtime Lakers vs The Miami Heat Show
Jul 18th 2014
149
also, the Heat Big 3 were all better defensively
Jul 18th 2014
155
      yeah Miami's defense was actually built around Wade's shot blocking...
Jul 18th 2014
158
           yea this is why the kyrie+love >>>>>> bosh+wade comments were strange
Jul 18th 2014
161
agreed. pretty obvious imo
Jul 18th 2014
150
All facts.
Jul 18th 2014
166
they will suck on D... gotta get some goons...
Jul 18th 2014
175
Love is basically the no better than Barkley w/ the Rockets (96-97)
Jul 18th 2014
176
      Didnt they go to the conf finals that year b/w Love is much younger
Jul 18th 2014
180
           Keep Wiggins & trade Waiters/Bennett/Tristan for Al Horford
Jul 18th 2014
185
                If that is on the table, sure. Seems speculative at best though.
Jul 18th 2014
186
                     There had been rumblings about Horford to the Cavs around the draft
Jul 18th 2014
195
                          I heard he had been shopped, but lots of players get shopped
Jul 21st 2014
259
Cavs gonna fuck around and end up like the Cavs during Bron's 1st stint
Jul 18th 2014
153
This as well
Jul 18th 2014
157
fair points, but let's not equate Larry Hughes to K. Love
Jul 18th 2014
219
None of those players were even remotely in the universe of Kevin Love
Jul 19th 2014
229
How long a deal would Love sign?
Jul 18th 2014
154
I don't think he'll play the 1 or 2 year game like Lebron, I think he...
Jul 18th 2014
160
      Just kinda funny to me, cuz if Bron does bounce
Jul 18th 2014
162
           Bron ain't bouncing, he's just doing opt-outs for the next five years
Jul 22nd 2014
263
Is there a plan B?
Jul 18th 2014
156
Would you give a 32 year-old Lebron a $200+mil contract? (swipe)
Jul 18th 2014
164
damn so the he's not going anywhere he's just waiting for the new tv
Jul 18th 2014
168
      Him leaving again would be such a PR disaster though
Jul 18th 2014
172
      and it could definitely happen.
Jul 18th 2014
174
      He blows out his knee in the next 2 seasons and he's done
Jul 18th 2014
196
           That's true of any contract for any player at any age. So, moot.
Jul 21st 2014
244
Minny AP writer: neither Wiggins nor Klay have yet been offered for Love...
Jul 18th 2014
169
seems reasonable to me, doesnt really support either side of argument
Jul 18th 2014
173
      I'm feeling over arguing about it. I just want it to happen.
Jul 18th 2014
178
           yeah i mean i dont think there is any urgency for either team
Jul 18th 2014
188
ProBBallDraft reporting the Wolves are content to wait.
Jul 18th 2014
181
man cavs bout to give up wiggins, dion, bennett and some 1sts
Jul 18th 2014
183
There are also reports they want Klay more than Wiggins.
Jul 18th 2014
184
      That makes sense, I mean Klay is a pretty nasty player
Jul 18th 2014
187
      back up. let's not try being friends on klay, fence-sitter.
Jul 18th 2014
192
           eat a dick, thanks
Jul 20th 2014
237
      shit, I'd take Klay on the Cavs
Jul 18th 2014
223
it's chicken and the wolves are pretty sure they're going to crash regar...
Jul 18th 2014
189
like I said, they have until the trade deadline, no urgency for them...
Jul 18th 2014
190
      Could hurt minny though
Jul 18th 2014
198
           as long as Love is healthy, putting up numbers and white, there will be....
Jul 18th 2014
200
Now ESPN....
Jul 18th 2014
197
espn.....or chris broussard?
Jul 18th 2014
201
RE: espn.....or chris broussard?
Jul 18th 2014
202
Isn't Bennett basically supposed to be K-Love lite?
Jul 18th 2014
203
Nah, he was supposed to be "Better than LJ EVER was!"
Jul 18th 2014
206
      Oh yeah, that too, lol
Jul 18th 2014
209
I'd do it*
Jul 18th 2014
207
NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IN CLEVELAND INCLUDING KLOVE.
Jul 18th 2014
208
      lol if the reason you dont want Love is because you want to run
Jul 18th 2014
211
      I don't want him because he'll cost too much and is a bad teammate
Jul 18th 2014
215
      the cap is an interesting point.
Jul 18th 2014
213
      Worry about that when the time comes.
Jul 20th 2014
236
      LOL, running teams love guys like Love and Duncan you dunce
Jul 20th 2014
234
           This guy just can't help him self.
Jul 21st 2014
254
           I'm always right....
Jul 21st 2014
261
           Duncan plays defense therefore your point is moot.
Jul 21st 2014
260
                the part that gets the break going is defensive rebounding
Jul 22nd 2014
273
I kinda liked the idea of Lebron mentoring those young guys...
Jul 19th 2014
227
my two cents
Jul 20th 2014
230
could work if he hadn't already signed with adidas, sony, etc.
Jul 20th 2014
231
i'd offer them an
Jul 20th 2014
232
      Nothing smarter than asking major sponsors to drop you!
Jul 21st 2014
249
      you are a fool. bye.
Jul 23rd 2014
297
you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that
Jul 20th 2014
235
RE: you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that
Jul 20th 2014
238
      he holds no cards and would look really bad doing that as a rookie.
Jul 20th 2014
241
Everything after the first sentence is LOUD AND WRONG.
Jul 20th 2014
240
exactly he
Jul 20th 2014
243
I remember a couple of years ago OKS was hyping an article about...
Jul 21st 2014
245
      IMO that shit is dead, no one has made it work yet
Jul 23rd 2014
344
It's basically instant gratification vs. gambling for long term success
Jul 21st 2014
247
RE: Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?
Jul 21st 2014
248
Bulls making a strong push by offering Taj and Jimmy Butler
Jul 22nd 2014
264
They are making a push.
Jul 22nd 2014
265
It's better than the 'monster push' tag placed on the Lakers
Jul 22nd 2014
266
      Haha
Jul 22nd 2014
271
On what planet is that a better offer?
Jul 22nd 2014
268
casm.
Jul 22nd 2014
269
Because.
Jul 22nd 2014
270
*Breaks this down*
Jul 22nd 2014
274
      nobody want Jimmy Butler Mobile, AL mechanic YMCA game ass
Jul 22nd 2014
285
           *sips tea*
Dec 30th 2014
527
This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels
Jul 22nd 2014
284
At least Tyrus was a top pick.
Jul 23rd 2014
292
And he 30.
Jul 23rd 2014
300
RE: This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels
Jul 23rd 2014
309
Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph .
Jul 23rd 2014
324
      RE: Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph .
Jul 23rd 2014
340
           no one wants taj but y'all.
Jul 23rd 2014
358
                RE: no one wants taj but y'all.
Jul 24th 2014
363
                     6th man of the year FINALIST?
Jul 24th 2014
367
Dawg, it might be the craziest Bull Fan distortion of reality yet
Jul 24th 2014
361
      If only it was that simple....
Jul 24th 2014
362
      you keep repeating this:
Jul 24th 2014
366
      That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove trade
Jul 27th 2014
370
           RE: That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove t...
Jul 28th 2014
371
      I'm starting to think every fanbase has a player they overcyse
Jul 24th 2014
368
           Bulls Fans seem to have four or five annually tho
Jul 27th 2014
369
Bulls making the smart move, forcing CLE to give up more
Jul 23rd 2014
290
can we just talk re: the "value" of defensive boards?
Jul 22nd 2014
281
PREACH ON, PREACHER!! (/>_<)/
Jul 22nd 2014
283
That sums it up.
Jul 22nd 2014
289
Not a soul will argue the D improves with Love instead of Wiggins.
Jul 23rd 2014
291
That's the thing, Love isn't a great offensive player, he's a good...
Jul 23rd 2014
305
^^^REAL TALK
Jul 23rd 2014
303
The TWolves have basically been an average DRebounding team w/Love
Jul 23rd 2014
319
The Pistons werent tops w/Ben Wallace, but then they got Rasheed
Jul 23rd 2014
349
      the argument is personal rebound #s tell you very little about reboundin...
Jul 23rd 2014
354
Nice dissertation, I just have one question ...
Jul 23rd 2014
347
Nice dissertation, I just have one question ...
Jul 23rd 2014
348
      Love's rebs have offensive impact, totally unclear re: extra possessions
Jul 23rd 2014
356
What if this was a 25 year old Dirk?
Jul 23rd 2014
293
dirk had been to the playoffs many times
Jul 23rd 2014
294
So? He also had two all-stars and depth on his team
Jul 23rd 2014
296
      like i said, it's an open question. seems like dirk wouldn't have NEVER
Jul 23rd 2014
342
           with pekovic and ricky rubio? in this west?
Jul 23rd 2014
346
                not once? dirk go from every year second round+ to never?
Jul 23rd 2014
350
when Dirk was 25 the #1 overall pick in the draft was Lebron James...
Jul 23rd 2014
308
To be fair, Dirk + Duncan would be fun as hell to watch
Jul 23rd 2014
313
Andrew Wiggins is not in the same universe as a prospect
Jul 23rd 2014
333
      and Dirk is a much better player than Love, and while people though...
Jul 23rd 2014
341
           LOL, what? LeBron was the most touted prospect in a long time
Jul 23rd 2014
345
Prime Dirk was a far better player than Love
Jul 23rd 2014
317
      I don't know, if you were rating them out of 100, what would "far" be?
Jul 23rd 2014
335
This is the longest drawn out trade shit ever. Bulls new offer
Jul 23rd 2014
298
Dumb trade for the Bulls.
Jul 23rd 2014
299
yep
Jul 23rd 2014
301
Smh....Yep. And Donte just got arrested during his comeback too.
Jul 23rd 2014
302
RE: Dumb trade for the Bulls.
Jul 23rd 2014
311
McBuckets, Mirotic, and Butler might be their best possible offer.
Jul 23rd 2014
304
And I think Minny would like to have a potential white star coming back....
Jul 23rd 2014
306
I don't believe this to be a genuine offer
Jul 23rd 2014
307
If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo...
Jul 23rd 2014
310
It's not about giving up Taj for Melo.
Jul 23rd 2014
312
RE: If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo...
Jul 23rd 2014
315
they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to
Jul 23rd 2014
316
      RE: they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to
Jul 23rd 2014
318
I agree.
Jul 23rd 2014
314
that would be some Bulls(hit).
Jul 23rd 2014
330
MURPH PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT--TRUST THE KNOWABLE
Jul 23rd 2014
320
We screamed for shooters last season...
Jul 23rd 2014
322
NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING
Jul 23rd 2014
323
RE: NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING
Jul 23rd 2014
328
RE: We screamed for shooters last season...
Jul 23rd 2014
325
cavs may very well have depth, too, they definitely have shooting
Nov 02nd 2014
520
Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs
Jul 23rd 2014
326
RE: Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs
Jul 23rd 2014
329
Your sources more reliable than RJC27's?
Jul 23rd 2014
331
Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???
Jul 23rd 2014
332
      If Minnesota makes that bullshit deal, they are dead to me
Jul 23rd 2014
334
      RE: Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???
Jul 23rd 2014
336
      Yeah no
Jul 23rd 2014
338
      The word leaked that Wiggy was signing-- but i dont think it was
Jul 23rd 2014
339
      If the deal goes through without Wiggins...
Jul 23rd 2014
353
           this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happens.
Jul 23rd 2014
359
           RE: this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happen...
Jul 24th 2014
365
           You? Never
Jul 24th 2014
364
           and if it doesn't?
Jul 28th 2014
372
Eric Bledsoe's Long, Hot, Restricted Summer (via Lowe)
Jul 23rd 2014
327
I want to see Monroe leave Detroit
Jul 23rd 2014
337
      I wish Portland would grabbed Monroe instead of Kaman...
Aug 04th 2014
379
starting to sound like this deal is basically done
Jul 31st 2014
373
Jonah Hill Windhorst reporting that a "handshake deal" has been made.
Aug 04th 2014
374
He also reported that the Cavs were gonna offer Gordan Hayward the max
Aug 04th 2014
375
WORST TRADE IN LEAGUE HISTORY
Aug 04th 2014
376
Will you still ride for AB if he's in Philly?
Aug 04th 2014
377
Me? I was never a huge AB guy.
Aug 04th 2014
381
they should ship waiters to philly
Aug 04th 2014
378
Dion called himself Lebron's new D-Wade.
Aug 04th 2014
380
      you keep saying this. but the signs are pointing to bron wanting him
Aug 05th 2014
395
      If he's happy to take fewer shots and commit on defense...
Aug 05th 2014
415
           Kyrie needs to do the same 2 things
Aug 05th 2014
509
      did he really? Or are you talking about this?
Aug 05th 2014
490
Sixers win. Wolves make out okay. Cavs lose.
Aug 04th 2014
382
      Shit, Wolves win BIG.
Aug 04th 2014
383
      But I'm sure at some point they thought they'd get more for Love.
Aug 04th 2014
384
      i doubt it. they didn't even have a trade plan. they're lucky if it happ...
Aug 04th 2014
385
      agree... Thad and Pekovic keeps that frontcourt nice too on the glass
Aug 05th 2014
389
      I'll see what draft picks come in/leave before judging
Aug 05th 2014
391
      Lmao, you such a pressed college fan
Aug 05th 2014
386
           pressed college fan
Aug 05th 2014
387
           Wait....what does college have to do with this now?
Aug 05th 2014
388
                only a college fan
Aug 05th 2014
390
                     Lol...I'm not watching Kansas or UNLV. I have zero horses in this.
Aug 05th 2014
392
                          this right here is what i mean
Aug 05th 2014
393
                          People are in love with potential
Aug 05th 2014
396
                          See, I'm saying the trade is short sighted & your response is...
Aug 05th 2014
398
                          They wont even contend for the ECF
Aug 05th 2014
400
                          Who said that?
Aug 05th 2014
401
                               I missed the season she was on
Aug 05th 2014
407
                                    I just watched it last week on Hulu. I'm watching all the seasons.
Aug 05th 2014
419
                          they're winning the East easy, then it depends on the matchup
Aug 05th 2014
402
                               Okay, I have you down for "winning the East easy"
Aug 05th 2014
403
                               Because I am not scared of numbers
Aug 05th 2014
404
                                    No, you're confused. Nobody is questioning Bron. The other pieces, yes.
Aug 05th 2014
405
                                         we'll see
Aug 05th 2014
412
                               RE: they're winning the East easy
Aug 05th 2014
437
                          The East is not as strong due to injury/player movement.
Aug 05th 2014
423
                               yeah, you just want to back into an ECF title to save Rose's legacy
Aug 05th 2014
450
                                    lol @ the concept of "backing into an ecf" coming from a bron stan
Aug 05th 2014
452
                                         you mean the guy who's won 5 conference titles and 2 rings?
Aug 05th 2014
454
                                              you didn't address my point.
Aug 05th 2014
461
                          as a basketball fan i like the prospects of this WAY better
Aug 05th 2014
397
                               Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get them...
Aug 05th 2014
399
                               That's The Issue Though
Aug 05th 2014
408
                               You think Bron wants to take Wiggins under his wing?
Aug 05th 2014
410
                               Nope so the paragraph in The Letter about grooming young talent
Aug 05th 2014
413
                               That's Your boy!
Aug 05th 2014
414
                                    plea cop what?
Aug 05th 2014
417
                                         Wiggins said in the ESPN interview he hasn't heard from him.
Aug 05th 2014
422
                                              yet bron reached out to kevin love and is tweeting all crazy
Aug 05th 2014
426
                                                   Yep, it is a complete Lebron move. And I'm not down with...
Aug 05th 2014
432
                               I would think Bron is bigger than that & has enough ego to not be...
Aug 05th 2014
420
                                    LOL @ Bron being threatened by Wiggins
Aug 05th 2014
463
                                         That's what Shawn suggested.
Aug 05th 2014
488
                                              I'm a Sixers fan, by time Wiggins comes into his own, Twin Towers here
Aug 05th 2014
494
                                                   Nah, I'm still good with saying they won't make the ECF *shrugs*
Aug 05th 2014
498
                                                   okay. How bout a wager with u taking the field on Cavs in Final?
Aug 05th 2014
499
                                                        I don't wager. Me saying it is enough for me.
Aug 05th 2014
500
                                                             Good thing for that. You'd be broke with these type of prognostications
Aug 06th 2014
511
                                                   Twin Hype
Aug 06th 2014
512
                               RE: Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get the...
Aug 05th 2014
424
                               As a guy who doesn't want title expectations on Lebron, you like it
Aug 05th 2014
411
                                    he won 2 already. you and cenerio and all the other idiots who hated
Aug 05th 2014
428
Not for nothing, but right today the following are UFAs in 2015:
Aug 05th 2014
394
Rondo is a UFA in 2015 too
Aug 05th 2014
427
      True, I was just posting up the bigs
Aug 05th 2014
443
Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10.
Aug 05th 2014
406
RE: Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10.
Aug 05th 2014
418
I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's...
Aug 05th 2014
416
RE: I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's...
Aug 05th 2014
421
when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as...
Aug 05th 2014
425
      if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love stans
Aug 05th 2014
431
      RE: if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love s...
Aug 05th 2014
435
           of course not
Aug 05th 2014
438
                RE: of course not
Aug 05th 2014
444
      RE: when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as....
Aug 05th 2014
439
           lmao the NBA is basically soap operas now
Aug 05th 2014
440
           Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer.
Aug 05th 2014
442
                RE: Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer.
Aug 05th 2014
448
                     we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates...
Aug 05th 2014
455
                          RE: we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates....
Aug 05th 2014
471
I think the opposite is about to happen
Aug 05th 2014
429
this is true of both love and kyrie imo. if cavs don't win it shouldn't
Aug 05th 2014
430
How is Kyrie is a top 5 point guard???
Aug 05th 2014
433
What 5 point guards are better than Kyrie RIGHT TODAY?
Aug 05th 2014
436
I'm asking you the question.
Aug 05th 2014
441
At this point I think CP, Curry and Westbrook are clearly top 3, after.....
Aug 05th 2014
445
i think most ppl rating kyrie are talking out of their ass
Aug 05th 2014
446
      same way everybody's a kevin love expert...
Aug 05th 2014
449
           You guys are right, well we get see plenty of them this year, I'm sure.....
Aug 05th 2014
456
                juggled? cavs getting opening day and a christmas slot lol
Aug 05th 2014
458
                     speakin of ant davis. i'm on that this year. playoffs or else.
Aug 05th 2014
459
                          If they can stay healthy the Hornets should definitely be in the playoff...
Aug 05th 2014
462
                          naw he in the western conference
Aug 05th 2014
464
                          playoffs...he supposedly a top 10 player already. that's playoffs to me....
Aug 05th 2014
466
                          2 points
Aug 05th 2014
465
                          damn forgot about this
Aug 05th 2014
467
                          should be 50...he top 10...and jrue an all-star....should be 55
Aug 05th 2014
469
                          Jrue was a two season-ending injuries and playing in the East All-Star
Aug 06th 2014
513
                               This was and still is such a massive plea cop.
Aug 06th 2014
516
                                    just seeing this now so apologies for pummeling belatedly:
Nov 06th 2014
523
                          yeah they finna have that paint on clack-clack.
Aug 05th 2014
475
                          *being unreasonable and acting stupid when confronting with legit facts*
Aug 05th 2014
468
                               lolz
Aug 05th 2014
476
                          How is he getting a pass? He's been in the league two whole years.
Aug 05th 2014
470
                          same shit i said about kyrie last summer, after his SECOND season
Aug 05th 2014
473
                               Meh. Don't let other's reaction to Kyrie cloud your perspective on AD
Aug 05th 2014
477
                                    i think AD a superstar...my judgement of him not clouded at all.
Aug 05th 2014
478
                                    HE set that bar. Read my sig.
Aug 05th 2014
492
                                         man I just don't think I have the energy for this lol
Aug 05th 2014
493
                                         Too bad I ain't make sigs for Tyrus and Ben Wallace cysage
Aug 05th 2014
495
                          http://i.imgur.com/lrlYV13.gif
Aug 05th 2014
472
                          just playin the game, dogg.
Aug 05th 2014
474
                               Whatever makes it interesting for u bruh.
Aug 05th 2014
480
                          why everybody scared? that's a fair standard and he gonna do it
Aug 05th 2014
481
                               Right.
Aug 05th 2014
485
                               Shit even I agree.
Aug 05th 2014
491
I'd think the most nba analysts would have this top 5 I'd bet
Aug 05th 2014
453
      you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of practices...
Aug 05th 2014
460
           RE: you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of pract...
Aug 05th 2014
479
           you're a fucking genius.
Aug 05th 2014
482
           even still, then Rondo then moves into the top 5
Aug 05th 2014
486
                He's basically in the same boat with Rose, if you miss over half your...
Aug 05th 2014
496
                     Is that directly from the hypothetical OKS rankings rulebook?
Aug 05th 2014
505
                          Exactly.
Aug 06th 2014
514
Kyrie is definitely NOT a top 5 point guard.
Aug 05th 2014
489
      This is a good list.
Aug 05th 2014
501
      RE: This is a good list.
Aug 05th 2014
502
           this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited
Aug 05th 2014
503
                RE: this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited
Aug 05th 2014
504
                the kings wouldn't even pick thomas....like 3 times.
Aug 05th 2014
507
                http://tinyurl.com/nyqhs92
Aug 05th 2014
508
      Isiaah Thomas is not better
Aug 05th 2014
506
      that list is some bullshit, lol...
Aug 06th 2014
515
Haven't you already "exposed him as a fraud" like 30 times?
Aug 05th 2014
434
alright so
Aug 05th 2014
447
      you know the game he's playing.
Aug 05th 2014
451
      Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same...
Aug 05th 2014
457
           RE: Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same...
Aug 05th 2014
483
           My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat...
Aug 05th 2014
484
                I still think Love gets a bad rap as if he's been starring since day 1
Aug 05th 2014
487
                RE: My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat...
Aug 05th 2014
497
           he's getting that 20 and 13
Aug 05th 2014
510
                He was putting up 25/15 & not sniffing the post-season
Nov 02nd 2014
521
look at these niggas who don't know shit about basketball
Nov 02nd 2014
517
Love playing like Carlos Boozer in a Cavs uniform...winning!
Nov 02nd 2014
518
tonight: Big Love - 2 for 8, 14pts, Big Wig - 7 for 12, 17pts, #IJS
Nov 06th 2014
522
Wig BETTER.
Dec 30th 2014
524
Hell he doesn't even need to be BETTER
Dec 30th 2014
525
youre acting like guys cant be taught defense
Dec 30th 2014
526
      Love lacks both willingness and ability at that end though
Dec 30th 2014
529
           ^^^
Dec 31st 2014
530
Bosh BETTER
Dec 30th 2014
528
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Jun 17th 2015
531

ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "What do you want out of a number one pick?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ideally you want a player who will produce at a high level and be an important part of your team for multiple seasons, like five or more.

They are getting that in Love and they have to spend ZERO time developing him.

That wouldn't necessarily be the ideal thing for every time, but for a team that has LeBron on what is effectively a one-year contract but has the opportunity to have him for the rest of his career? Yes, you want that, you get that.

There is also the scarcity of opportunity. How many times does an all-star hit the market at 25? Very infrequently. I can't think of any examples under the last two CBAs (there were some guys who became all-stars, but not established ones).

The bottom line is this, if they acquire Love they are a more competitive team immediately. They have the opportunity have both him and LeBron for the rest of their prime. If they gamble and this group does not success, LeBron could opt out next summer and bail. So you could either have LeBron and Love for their entire primes or you could have neither and be back at square one within a year.

Not only do I think they should trade Wiggins--who I think will be an excellent pro--I would trade another asset with him to get it done. Bennett, Waiters, Thompson ... these are not irreplaceable talents. They have to get this done, but it's going to be a protracted thing. Minnesota also has to get it done because Wiggins is the best player they are going to get for Love. But neither side can be too eager, or they will lose the battle for peripheral assets.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
409. "Another rumor..nothing official. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Yup.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "What do you want out of a number one pick?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ideally you want a player who will produce at a high level and be an important part of your team for multiple seasons, like five or more.

They are getting that in Love and they have to spend ZERO time developing him.

That wouldn't necessarily be the ideal thing for every time, but for a team that has LeBron on what is effectively a one-year contract but has the opportunity to have him for the rest of his career? Yes, you want that, you get that.

There is also the scarcity of opportunity. How many times does an all-star hit the market at 25? Very infrequently. I can't think of any examples under the last two CBAs (there were some guys who became all-stars, but not established ones).

The bottom line is this, if they acquire Love they are a more competitive team immediately. They have the opportunity have both him and LeBron for the rest of their prime. If they gamble and this group does not success, LeBron could opt out next summer and bail. So you could either have LeBron and Love for their entire primes or you could have neither and be back at square one within a year.

Not only do I think they should trade Wiggins--who I think will be an excellent pro--I would trade another asset with him to get it done. Bennett, Waiters, Thompson ... these are not irreplaceable talents. They have to get this done, but it's going to be a protracted thing. Minnesota also has to get it done because Wiggins is the best player they are going to get for Love. But neither side can be too eager, or they will lose the battle for peripheral assets.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "not sure how any of this is even debatable."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

for the ppl voting no: if there was a player in this past draft that you knew for a fact would eventually be as good as kevin love is right today, you're telling me you wouldn't take him first?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "I guess it comes down to how good you actually think Kevin Love is..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

and how good you think Wiggins will be and how long it will take him to get there.

For some people Love is just a guy putting up empty stats on a bad team. In limited samples of him playing with other talented players on Team USA and in All-Star games he hasn't really stood out and sometimes has even looked out of place.

In general a volume scoring power forward is not a part of a traditional recipe for winning.

Then on the other side you have Wiggins, how often has a legit #1 overall talent landed on a team where he doesn't have to be a savior but is actually playing with best player in the world AND one of the top point guard talents in the NBA?

Can you imagine Kyrie running the break with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings and how frightening that would be?

Or Lebron and Wig on the defensive end?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "You need Wiggins to be good inside of one year, two max"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I am a big fan of his and think he will be an excellent player. But you have to give to get. You're trading a wing for a big, a prospect for a player in his prime and it all fits your current situation. Like I said, both teams HAVE to make this deal. Minnesota is going to lose Love but here they get actual fair return, Cleveland needs a star in his prime.

Does Love give them a guy to protect the rim? LOL, no, but neither do any of the players mentioned. They have the best defender in the league in LeBron, who can play almost any role at that end. Sideshow Bob and some other role player can grind and hack. Meanwhile Love gives them a third consistent 20 PPG producer, an inside weapon that's also an outside weapon, a very good rebounder and a guy who can get the break going. Is he tailor made for them? No. Is he by far the best player they can get today and, honestly, into the foreseeable future? There is no question, even taking the lowest opinion of him that exists (yours).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Not "eventually" even, how about "immediately?""
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

That, to me, is the key. Talent for talent, whatever, Wiggins may turn out to be as good. But it will take a few years for him to reach his peak. Love is there now. So, a better way of putting would be that if there were an automatic, instant 20/9 player in this year's draft, would he have been taken above Wiggins? Of course.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Maybe not if I had a guarantee Hans stays healthy but anyone else, sure"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Allow me to rant for what I hope will be the last time on this subject:

You're Cleveland.

You won the NBA lottery 4 times in the last 9 years and you ain't been to the Finals since the Bush Administration.

You won the geographic lottery with Lebron James.

TWICE.

Do NOT fuck this up again trying to play fortune telling scout genie.

Be grateful for the bird in your hand and don't give away opportunities to add a ring to it by reaching for the bush.

This isn't an LBJ, Duncan, Shaq type of #1 pick.

Wiggins has yet to play a minute of NBA Basketball & was a bad draft-week X-Ray away from going 3rd to Philly.

Would I love to have him as a building block on a young developing team?

Sure.

More than I'd like to have Kevin Love play with Lebron James and be the definitive odds-on favorite to win a ring each of the next two seasons?

Fuck No.

And again, I really like Andrew Wiggins more than most others I know.

They can bluff for a bit, maybe grind down the additional player details to their advantage but bottom line is Flip has gotta get Wiggins in that deal or even David Kahn will be publicly clowning him.

You already have seen offers better than any other combo of young talent you got.

It's cute to think you can give them a couple of mid-to-late firsts, cyse Bennet's summer league svelte figure or Dion's empty scoring totals from last year but eventually you wake up and say 'wait, why am I trying to get cute about this shit?!?'

You take the Top 3 PF to give you two Top 20 players to pair with Lebron James.

A man who left your franchise once and watched you lose 47 more games plus set the record for consecutive defeats the following season.

The guy who has been to the last four finals while you have averaged 23 wins in his absence.

Dude who already declared two years ago what a dream it would be to play with Kevin Love while they were winning Gold Medals for a country full of goofy, overthinking, talking just to talk muggfuggas still applauding for a soccer team winning one out of four games this summer.

A generation deep of draft geeks out here making a mockery of basic logic on this issue.

Kevin Love is actually really good, fellas.

Better than Bosh ever was and that turned out okay.

The agenda-deranged can move the 'no playoff' mantra over to accusing them of being Bron byproducts next year if need be.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-17-14 10:40 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

like Frankie says


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3n8ks-l-r8

1) Outlet passing. Lebron and Kyrie leaking out after rebounds. Game over.
2) Interior passing from the low post/midpost
3) Shooting and ability to spread the floor either via spot up or pick and roll pick and pop situations
4) Ability to finish garbage shots inside
5 great hands


Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk

42 and 16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk

31 and 31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI



Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today run an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead. Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris Bosh?


I keep hearing this wait wait approach. Lebron doesnt want to wait. For all we know he plays 3-5 more years and then just retires. He aint leaving Cle again no matter what.

Cap flexibility is the major thing I see, but Cle has shown by going out to get Mike Miller and james Jones that theyre comfy sorrounding Bron with old guys. Theyre going all in here. Ray Allen next.

Kyrie is gonna be the future when Brons done.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "RE: Let's change this to what does Kevin love bring focus on +"
In response to Reply # 4


          


>Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk
>
>42 and 16
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk
>
>31 and 31
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI

Like I said above, Love's not going to have many 30 and 40 point games playing with Lebron and Kyrie like he did in Minny when he was the #1 option.

>
>Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves
>his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over
>him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today run
>an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead.
>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>Bosh?

It's not about ISO's, basketball is a team game even on the defensive end at least for good teams. Post players are expect to be able to provide help when they're perimeter guys get beat. All Love is concerned about is getting in position for the rebound. It's tough to hide a defensive liability in the front court. Carlisle managed to do it for one season when he had a DPOY guy at center and it's not like those guys grow on trees.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "he doesnt have to"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Jul-17-14 10:56 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

The point is he's one of the few guys in the league who has the potential to even have that kinda game. Then we havent even talked about his offensive rebounding.

Your theory is he only gets this many rebounds because his defense? Hes just a poor defender.

Youre the one in the other post crying conspiracy if Cle got him and kept wiggins. Why cry if he sucks so bad.


>>Who else is putting up these 40 and 19 games?
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZhxwzfwMpk
>>
>>42 and 16
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nr-jkjr9Jk
>>
>>31 and 31
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOvr3G5mpzI
>
>Like I said above, Love's not going to have many 30 and 40
>point games playing with Lebron and Kyrie like he did in Minny
>when he was the #1 option.
>
>>
>>Defensively hes obviously below average. Even when he moves
>>his feet, hes short and has 0 lift so guys just elevate over
>>him. Lets be honest though, how many NBA teams right today
>run
>>an ISO for their 4 play after play. The post up Iso is dead.
>>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>>Bosh?
>
>It's not about ISO's, basketball is a team game even on the
>defensive end at least for good teams. Post players are expect
>to be able to provide help when they're perimeter guys get
>beat. All Love is concerned about is getting in position for
>the rebound. It's tough to hide a defensive liability in the
>front court. Carlisle managed to do it for one season when he
>had a DPOY guy at center and it's not like those guys grow on
>trees.
>

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "RE: he doesnt have to"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>The point is he's one of the few guys in the league who has
>the potential to even have that kinda game. Then we havent
>even talked about his offensive rebounding.
>
>Your theory is he only gets this many rebounds because his
>defense? Hes just a poor defender.
>
>Youre the one in the other post crying conspiracy if Cle got
>him and kept wiggins. Why cry if he sucks so bad.

I'm not crying about anything but if they get Love for Bennett and some picks it's definitely suspect

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "This is actually a good point:"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>Which 4s in the east are gonna shit on Kevin Love? Chris
>Bosh?

The Eastern Conference lineup helps. Though they will need someone to help when the guards blow by Kyrie and Dion (hopefully Brewer comes over).

Disagree about him finishing inside though-- isn't he statistically down at the bottom of the bigs for finishes at the rim? I thought I read that. It's certainly not where he does the majority of his damage anyhow.

Not that his ability inside is remotely a deal maker or deal breaker. But yknow. Just saying.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "IMO that is a misleading stat though"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

The eye test says he can do damage with paint catches. He does take a lot of threes and float a bit, but if they wanted him to play like Boozer did early on for the Jazz, you don't think he could get paint catches and finish? Please, he's got good hands, a big body and a soft touch.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "Why not play it out a month or two into the season?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't really see how the TWolves are going to get a better offer than Wiggins (and possibly another player) from another team in the near future.

Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4 years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

Miami's run ended prematurely because within 4 years, Bosh and Wade (especially) were not worth max contracts, and they had zero flexibility to get anyone besides old guys on their last legs and late 1st round rookies to fill out the roster. Not that Bron/Kyrie/Love will not be worth the max in 3-4 years, and the CBA will probably be blown up by then, but if they keep some cap flexibility, who's to say they can't get a good player next summer as well?

My big concern for these Cavs would actually be rim protection. Varejao is a great interior defender, but a good bet to miss half a season, and no one else on the roster can protect the paint, plus Bron ain't flying in from behind for chase down blocks anymore. Love/Bron/Kyrie would be a GREAT offensive combo, but any team with Bron and Kyrie is gonna score in bunches anyway. Where are the good defenders on this team outside of Bron, Varejao, and possibly Wiggins? It would really help if they had some insurance for Varejao on defense.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 10:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
9. "Twolves will move him"
In response to Reply # 7
Thu Jul-17-14 11:03 PM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

Say you have wiggins playing off the bench and his numbers dont look great or he doesnt look great. Trade value also goes down there or Minn has even more leverage. The chance of that happening is higher with a rookie playing next to Bron and Kyrie.



Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4 years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

Lebron doesnt care about when Lebron is slowing down. Hes pulling the strings here. He cares about his legacy. If I were just the cavs id understand keeping Wiggins. But they signed the King. They gotta listen.



Miami's run ended prematurely because within 4 years, Bosh and Wade (especially) were not worth max contracts, and they had zero flexibility to get anyone besides old guys on their last legs and late 1st round rookies to fill out the roster. Not that Bron/Kyrie/Love will not be worth the max in 3-4 years, and the CBA will probably be blown up by then, but if they keep some cap flexibility, who's to say they can't get a good player next summer as well?



Kyrie and Love are younger (though they have proven to be injury prone)



My big concern for these Cavs would actually be rim protection. Varejao is a great interior defender, but a good bet to miss half a season, and no one else on the roster can protect the paint, plus Bron ain't flying in from behind for chase down blocks anymore. Love/Bron/Kyrie would be a GREAT offensive combo, but any team with Bron and Kyrie is gonna score in bunches anyway. Where are the good defenders on this team outside of Bron, Varejao, and possibly Wiggins? It would really help if they had some insurance for Varejao on defense.

Theyll add some cheap depth there.

If the deal as constructed remains true, they can trade Wiggins for a big. Or they can move Varejao and his expiring contract.

If they dont give up picks in this dal, they still have picks to give.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "well said and now we see why this poll is swinging"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

"yes" made up ground in a hurry

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "That underestimates how singular of a commodity Love is."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

And, as Mike Armentrout says, "Never take a half measure."

You ride the fence and risk losing out on him. That also means potentially losing LeBron (again).

You don't think other teams will be interested? As I told Frank, there are a lot of franchises, they all want an all-star big man entering his prime. Sure, some teams don't have the assets or financial flexibility, but that doesn't describe everyone. This is not a two-horse race between the Warriors and Cavs, do not be naive.

The thing Longo was pointing to was Love's lack of interest in most of the other teams. That may be true, but they are all better than Minnesota so as the list of suitors expands, so too will his list of suitable destinations.

Short of Love demanding a trade to Cleveland specifically, Cleveland doesn't stand to gain any leverage by waiting IMO.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "^^ yup, the real turning point is rookie deal v. Kevin Love's $$$"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Secondly, I think Wiggins will be a perfect complement to
>Lebron going forward. Lebron's going to start slowing down at
>some point, and he'll see someone else to chase around tough
>perimeter matchups and lock em up, and you know Kyrie won't be
>the one to do it. Plus, he's cost controlled for the next 4
>years or so, which is past the current CBA. Look how big of an
>advantage San Antonio had by having Leonard blow up while
>still on his rookie contract, letting them pay star guys like
>Duncan/Parker/Manu AND get depth.

If the Cavs want to maintain flexibility, the best thing to do is to keep Wiggins and hope he's a stud. Personally I don't know why people don't recognize that just with his athleticism, Wiggins would be a monster on the fast break with Bron and Kyrie. He doesn't even need to be an amazing half-court player, just getting up and down the floor, Wiggins should have plenty of games where he can get 10+ points just in transition, feeding of Kyrie and Bron. Have we forgotten how aggressively Wade + Bron were getting down the floor in the early Heat years, back when Wade had knees?

Of course, Love is genuinely a great outlet passer and would complement Kyrie and Bron in that regard, too, so it's tough, but then the pain of the decision rests in the salary structure. If Wiggins is a stud, you get him at cost for four years, AND you have another first-rounder coming up next year. If you move for Love, you've already re-upped Kyrie, you know Bron is focused on maxing out earnings, and it would be pretty silly to talk to Kevin about a paycut when you know tons of teams are lining up to rain money down on him the first chance they get. So now you have your three high-priced superstars locked in, and you have to hope that's good enough, even though you have the extremely recent example of Miami where lack of depth can really come with a cost.

But yeah -- I think as far as talent / win-now considerations, you take Love. But if you're thinking about roster building, it's damn hard to give up four years of rookie scale on a guy that could definitely be an All-Star somewhere within that timeframe.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "Flexibility for what? So they could sign a worse player than Love?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "Cavs roster, as is, has 3 All-Stars on it; they need rotation guys"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

granted, Wiggins might not be an All-Star this year, but there's a very good chance he will warrant that within the next four years, ESPECIALLY if you bring him up in a healthy ecosystem where he can learn from LeBron and not suffer under the weight of superstar pressure from day one.

What the Cavs really need beyond that is depth, and salary flexibility will help them insert themselves in trades for rotation guys or be able to shop for them in free agency. With Love in the picture, they go to the Miami model of roster construction, and we've seen how that plays out. Only way it changes is if the salary cap jumps dramatically, which would be in 2 years when Wiggins will likely be an All-Star anyway.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "They dont have four years to wait and why should they?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

If they flop this year, it's "The Decision Part III"

Going to Bron's rookie year, I said they needed to take the long view, not be the insecure boyfriend. They should stay flexible and use him as a bargaining chip. But he's not 18 anymore. He's about 30. He's also not under contract for four years. He's under contract, effectively, for one.

Time to win now, today. Not next year, not in four years. THIS YEAR.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
159. "that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

Firstly, you ignore the possibility that adding Love could result in the same thing as keeping Wiggins, i.e. no chip, in which case two years from now Cleveland wouldn't just be a struggle situation for Bron, but in the Love scenario a struggle situation with less flexibility and a dimmer future. More or less the same situation he just left in Miami. He also could be in the Finals, possibly even winning, with Wiggins. We don't know how good Wiggins is.

You act as if there are two choices: add Love and become champs, or keep Wiggins and don't become champs. That's just a completely ridiculous way to frame the options.

Secondly, you seem to assume Cleveland's only hope of retaining Bron is winning championships, when there's absolutely nothing to support this. I thought it was pretty transparent that the 2-year deal is in order to maximize his earnings after the new TV deal kicks in, and at that time Cleveland will be able to offer him the most years and the most money. Why shouldn't Cleveland proceed confidently with a strong shot at winning the East this yearr, while still putting themselves in position to compete at the highest level for years to come?

Basically you're framing this as "get Love or lose Bron" when there really are many, many more scenarios than just that.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
177. "RE: that sort of short-term thinking woulda been a hit at Bear Stearns"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

>Firstly, you ignore the possibility that adding Love could
>result in the same thing as keeping Wiggins, i.e. no chip, in
>which case two years from now Cleveland wouldn't just be a
>struggle situation for Bron, but in the Love scenario a
>struggle situation with less flexibility and a dimmer future.
>More or less the same situation he just left in Miami. He
>also could be in the Finals, possibly even winning, with
>Wiggins. We don't know how good Wiggins is.

We know how good Love is. With Love, the Cavs would be odds-on favorites to win the East. They would be championship contenders immediately. Not on any unspecified timeline. If they don't *win* the title, I don't think LeBron, who stressed his patience in the letter, will bail just because of that. If they spend the year bowling with the bumpers on because they have a bunch of kids, then yes, he will have a wandering eye. Your argument is a relativist one and the comparison to Bear Stearns is, frankly, really fucking stupid. We are not talking about a 31-year-old mercenary with Love, we are talking about a guy in his mid 20s who is already balling. It's a fine move for the future.

>You act as if there are two choices: add Love and become
>champs, or keep Wiggins and don't become champs. That's just
>a completely ridiculous way to frame the options.

No, the choice is between acquiring Love and contending for a title or keeping Wiggins and risking a return to the dark ages. In a way, that is an even more dire proposition. I really like Wiggins, but a college freshman with some raw elements to his game is not the lynchpin of a title team right today. They don't have tomorrow to wait for. They have two years, and maybe just one.

>Secondly, you seem to assume Cleveland's only hope of
>retaining Bron is winning championships, when there's
>absolutely nothing to support this. I thought it was pretty
>transparent that the 2-year deal is in order to maximize his
>earnings after the new TV deal kicks in, and at that time
>Cleveland will be able to offer him the most years and the
>most money. Why shouldn't Cleveland proceed confidently with
>a strong shot at winning the East this yearr, while still
>putting themselves in position to compete at the highest level
>for years to come?

Oh really? That's apparent? Then why can he opt out after one year? This is LeBron we are talking about, not Tony fucking Gwynn.

>Basically you're framing this as "get Love or lose Bron" when
>there really are many, many more scenarios than just that.

There are but almost ALL the favorable ones include them acquiring Love. Love is not a short-term rental, he is a cornerstone for a long time. Wiggins might be that, but we aren't sure, and he is certainly not that immediately. You're trading prospect for proven and small for big. In what fucking universe is that a difficult decision???

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
191. "but we've just seen how the 3 MAX player scenario plays out"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

>We know how good Love is. With Love, the Cavs would be odds-on
>favorites to win the East. They would be championship
>contenders immediately. Not on any unspecified timeline. If
>they don't *win* the title, I don't think LeBron, who stressed
>his patience in the letter, will bail just because of that. If
>they spend the year bowling with the bumpers on because they
>have a bunch of kids, then yes, he will have a wandering eye.
>Your argument is a relativist one and the comparison to Bear
>Stearns is, frankly, really fucking stupid. We are not talking
>about a 31-year-old mercenary with Love, we are talking about
>a guy in his mid 20s who is already balling. It's a fine move
>for the future.

But it's about the roster construction. With two players on long-term MAX and LBJ angling for top dollar, your left with very little flexibility. If that roster, for whatever reason, fails to win the chip ... well then that's your roster the next year, too. With Wiggins as the long-term piece, you can count on his development and still be a player in acquiring rotation pieces. Also, there will be other trade offers you can package a young guy in if you decide that's the right move. I know Love is young, but his presumed contract structure is what locks the roster in, not his age or decline or anything.

>No, the choice is between acquiring Love and contending for a
>title or keeping Wiggins and risking a return to the dark
>ages. In a way, that is an even more dire proposition. I
>really like Wiggins, but a college freshman with some raw
>elements to his game is not the lynchpin of a title team right
>today. They don't have tomorrow to wait for. They have two
>years, and maybe just one.

But this is also where you get to -- is Bennett in the deal? Thompson? Because while I don't expect either to be Kevin Love, they could still show real progression playing alongside LBJ. Wiggins is the center-piece, sure, but that's where you're left with the question of how serious a contender is left once Love arrives. Wiggins backstops LBJ, offers a bridge to the future, Thompson or Bennett COULD make Love less of a dire need. That's part of the flexibility you sacrifice flexibility, too...

>There are but almost ALL the favorable ones include them
>acquiring Love. Love is not a short-term rental, he is a
>cornerstone for a long time. Wiggins might be that, but we
>aren't sure, and he is certainly not that immediately. You're
>trading prospect for proven and small for big. In what fucking
>universe is that a difficult decision???

Kevin Love only plays one side of the floor. Wiggins might be ANYTHING, in what world is trading away supposedly the best draft prospect in years before he even plays a minute anything less than rash?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
204. "Teams with three max players have won 5 of the last 7 chips lmap"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

Boston, the Lakers (twice) and the Heat (twice) all essentially had three max guys (KG/Ray/PP, Kobe/Pau/Bynum and Bosh/Wade/Bron). They all managed to continue attracting free agents (ring chasers) and making decent draft picks in some cases. Those three teams also account for four more Finals appearances in which they lost. So, um, what exactly are we criticizing here? And what are they going to do with this magnificent "flexibility" between now and the time Wiggins gets his max deal? Maybe sign a player like Kevin Love, if they are insanely lucky.



>But this is also where you get to -- is Bennett in the deal?
>Thompson? Because while I don't expect either to be Kevin
>Love, they could still show real progression playing alongside
>LBJ.

Two guys that play the same position as each other and kinda sorta the same one as LeBron or Love? Who gives a shit? Bennett was a colossal bust in year one and what he does in summer league means shit to me. Guys like Waiters and Thompson will be solid pros but are they deal-breakers in a trade like this? I could see some reservation on Bennett if you seriously value his potential, but not enough to hold up the deal. Obviously the core of this deal is good for both teams, now, as I said, it's a battle to see who comes out ahead in peripheral assets. That said, they are still peripheral.

Wiggins is the center-piece, sure, but that's where
>you're left with the question of how serious a contender is
>left once Love arrives. Wiggins backstops LBJ, offers a
>bridge to the future, Thompson or Bennett COULD make Love less
>of a dire need. That's part of the flexibility you sacrifice
>flexibility, too...

What has either of those guys done to prove they are ready to play for a contender right now? Fucking nothing. This is not about asset management, if it were, you might be right. But it's not, it's about winning and it's about winning immediately. There is no reason to wait when you have the best player in the league. Would someone have taken this attitude if Michael Jordan went to some team like the Timberwolves when he came back the first time? Of course not, they would have immediately tooled up with veterans, especially if a star in his prime were magically available.


>Kevin Love only plays one side of the floor. Wiggins might be
>ANYTHING, in what world is trading away supposedly the best
>draft prospect in years before he even plays a minute anything
>less than rash?

In how many "years" are we talking? Two? He is very promising but I wouldn't say he is like heads above Anthony Davis. Do you think Wiggins is clearly going to be a better player than Love? How could anyone believe that, Love is a top 20 player in the league by even a pretty conservative estimate. Any time you add a great rebounder, your defense is not going to suffer that much, that's something I think is lost in these "one side of the floor" arguments.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
214. "i love how the heat have become this failed experiment/cautionary tale"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

'you can't do the superteam thing anymore, we all saw how that ended up in miami'

ummm, extremely fucking successfully?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
217. "MIA was one rebound away for being 1 for 4, only won in the lockout year"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

and I would pick the Cavs roster, as is, to emerge from the East this year.

Making the Finals four times, coming out of the East, isn't that mind-blowing. Two for four in Finals is good, but like I said that's a razor thin margin and I would hope the team with the best player in basketball (now the Cavs...) could capitalize on that at least half the time in the Finals.

So it's not that the Heat were bad, per se, it's makes for a small window. Why take the small window when the Cavs are poised to create a big one if they play it right?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:47 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
221. "the heat's window was small b/c wade got old overnight."
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

that isn't evidence that the big 3 model doesn't work, it just shows that you need to pick the right 3 guys.

kevin love is 25. kyrie irving's 22. in 4 years, both will still be well within their primes.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sat Jul-19-14 03:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
228. "They went to the Finals FOUR TIMES. Even if they Buffalo Billed it"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

that would have been successful, and they didn't, they won twice and weren't embarrassed or anything (think 2007 Cavs) the other times either.

This thread has made people lose their damn minds, I swear.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
218. "Each of those big 3's has a 2-way big as one of the max deals "
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

In our case, there were two. It's not easy to find versatile bigs who play both sides of the floor without paying top dollar, and once Cleveland locks in Love, they won't be able to ...unless Dieng is included which imo would be a colossal steal for Cleveland and fuck up by Minny.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
220. "they wouldn't need *another* top dollar 2-way big on top of their big 3 ..."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

just a cheap rim-protector.

you guys keep acting like it'd be impossible for them to add one once they've locked into bron/love/kyrie @ max.

like gorgui dieng wasn't drafted in the 20s. like ibaka wasn't. like taj and tiago weren't. like d jordan and asik didn't go 2nd rd.

there's always guys out there. they'd find someone.






>In our case, there were two. It's not easy to find versatile
>bigs who play both sides of the floor without paying top
>dollar, and once Cleveland locks in Love, they won't be able
>to ...unless Dieng is included which imo would be a colossal
>steal for Cleveland and fuck up by Minny.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
222. ""cheap" rim protectors? you know how much Hibbert gets paid, right?"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

and Hibbert isn't that great of a basketball player. Even Larry Sanders is on like $11M/yr, isn't he? And Splitter isn't even really a rim protector and he's making like $9M/yr? There's no such thing as "cheap" rim protection in the NBA any more. Maybe you could draft a guy ... maybe ... but outside the lotto, you'd probably have to target a project a la Steven Adams (who was lotto, anyway) and now you're outside the "WIN NOW!" mode if it's a draft project you're counting on putting you over.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
224. "they could find one in the draft."
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

>Maybe you could draft a guy ... maybe ... but outside the lotto, you'd
>probably have to target a project a la Steven Adams (who was lotto, anyway)

i just named a bunch of guys who went late 1st/2nd.

>and now you're outside the "WIN NOW!" mode if it's a draft project you're counting on
>putting you over.

so you're picking them to win the east right away w/ wiggins in a large role, but a rim-protecting bit player would take years to develop and delay the window?

a bron/love/kyrie/dieng core couldn't 'win now' because dieng isn't ready?

you sure you wanna go w/ that?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
225. "If only it was that easy to project effective bigs"
In response to Reply # 220
Fri Jul-18-14 07:55 PM by LA2Philly

  

          

Of course we have the luxury of hindsight so although guys may be available and have been in the past, that doesn't change that talent evaluation is often lacking......and the one thing that the Cavs management has shown, other than the 2 no-brainer picks, is that they aren't all that savvy in their draft evaluations.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
226. "I know, for every Ibaka, there's 2 or 3 Biyombo's and Rudy Gobert's"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

There's a reason proven rim protectors like Hibbert and Deandre who have barely any other skills are $10 million+ players. If it was that easy to pluck a starting quality rim protector, every team would just pick one at the back end of the 1st round.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 05:20 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
239. "umm, what's wrong with biyombo or gobert?"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

actually that's EXACTLY the type of guys i'm referring to when i mention cheap rim protection. you put a guy like that on a team with 3 top 20 players, give him a very specific defined role, which is to stand in front of the rim and goon out for 20 or 25 min a night, and he'd be fine. his impact on that team would be a lot different than on say a utah or charlotte.

they wouldn't need $15M for a roy hibbert, who's indy's #2 scoring option in addition to his defensive duties. they'd just need a younger joel anthony or birdman andersen. if that guy gives them 5 pts a game, that's fine. and being on the court with a guy like lebron is going to elevate everyone's level of play. ppl are making that argument for wiggins, why wouldn't it be the same for a young shot-blocking big?

it's contradictory to act like finding a decent rim-protector is impossible w/ 3 max contracts on the books, and then fawn over how perfect gorgui dieng -- a late 1st rd pick in last yr's draft i.e. a very available type of player -- would be in that role.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 11:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
287. "aiyo.. seriously tho, guys..."
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

what's wrong with bismack biyombo?

http://bkref.com/tiny/9f7j9

2nd in the league in blocks per 36 min, behind serge

http://bkref.com/tiny/RavQd

1st in blocks per 100 possessions, just ahead of AD, serge and hibbs

(btw, gobert would've been 1st in both categories but didn't play enough minutes to qualify)

http://bkref.com/tiny/KSDwQ

3rd in block percentage, behind AD and serge

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

1st in the league in opponent's FG% @ the rim, by a wide margin

...

i need to know why biyombo couldn't be the center on a contender, if it also included a top 5 PF, a top 5 PG, and the best player in the world, and all he had to do was guard the front of the rim.

like, i need a more compelling reason than LOL DOOD IT'S BISMACK BIYOMBO LOLZ

cleveland should actually go after dude whether they land love or not. watch some smart team swoop him up @ a decent price while everybody else is LOL'ing.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
233. "You can keep repeating this, but it won't make it meaningful"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

If they have a healthy Varejao and another big who can protect the rim--it doesn't have to be Hibbert or Gasol or anyone crazy--they are in business. LeBron is the rangiest defender in the league. Love is one of the best rebounders. Bosh and Garnett were so critical because they had little else up front. If they have Love and then get some depth around him, role guys, then they will be totally fine. No one things Love is going to come in and play like Hakeem. They will need to round out their team in other ways, but again Wiggins doesn't protect the rim either.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 07:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
242. "You repeatedly saying it isn't meaningful doesn't make that meaningful "
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

I don't think Varejao is all that good of a rim protector, he's a good positional player but he doesn't provide much protection vertically. KG and Bosh were important because they are bigs who provide the majority of backside cover, horizontally and vertically, with their length and versatility. Lebron may be the rangiest defensive player, but how often is he rotating in the paint? I feel with Love you need a very strong rim protector to complement him, Varejao isn't that guy. With Wiggins, you allow yourself another excellent wing defender who can force the defense into their 3rd, 4th, 5th options while also making your rotations that much quicker, and you allow more salary flexibility in order to find that strong rim protection.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 12:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
250. "Again, I'm just not seeing a net gain with Wiggins/dealbreaker w/Love"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

You're not filling the need you're looking at with Wiggins, you may or may not be improving your defense as a whole (consider a raw Wiggins defense against a developed Love's rebounding) and you can go out and get a piece that fills that need. Is it available? Maybe, maybe not, but the only argument that it would be more available with Wiggins is that he gives you salary flexibility for next year. IMO no marquee rim protector is going to hit the market. So either way you are looking at secondary options. I just don't see it as a consideration here. If we were talking about trading like Nerlens Noel for Love (which I would do, incidentally), I could see a stronger argument because he is a rim protector. As it is, this sort of secondhand addressing of the need (perimeter defender that might ease the burden on the interior guys) is just not convincing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 01:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
251. "why not go after Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 250


  

          

you can keep wiggins, Hibbert's a rim protector who doesn't need touches, his contract's up in a couple years.

indy would get dion and thompson or bennett for a guy who supposedly disappeared. it actually makes too much sense. i guess the in-the-division stuff is the problem?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
255. "And what do they use to acquire Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

You think Indiana is going to take some clearance rack prospects for one of their main players? Do you see them taking say Waiters and Thompson for him? I don't.

Is a team with Hibbert and a rookie Wiggins better than a team with Love? I am not entirely sure, and again you have to give up assets to get Hibbert.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 08:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
262. "Suddenly, I'm the guy under appreciating Hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 255


  

          

Wow
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 05:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
272. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 262


  

          

what i meant was that they dont have assets to move for hibbert and they wouldn't move wiggins for him, so like the horford speculation that seems moot to me.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 06:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
275. "waiters/bennett really wouldn't get hibbert?"
In response to Reply # 272
Tue Jul-22-14 06:02 PM by thejerseytornado

  

          

waiters/thompson? i'm honestly surprised that those guys wouldn't at least get the convo started.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 09:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
295. "Conversation started? Sure. Deal done? I'm not as sure"
In response to Reply # 275


  

          

The Pacers get younger (but without trading a real veteran like say West) and smaller when they are trying to compete in an open east? I don't see it. I think if anything a deal for a lesser big man and a good point guard would be what they wanted for Hibbert. I also think Bennett's trade value is really limited at the moment. Cavs should hang onto him if possible, have faith in their evaluation of him.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 02:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
253. "but it isn't."
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

your argument is that lebron/love/irving wouldn't work because you'd still need a rim protector and you wouldn't have the money to go out and get one. that simply isn't true. you'd have to value-shop, sure, but you could find a guy for cheap who would suffice.

you couldn't do it year one -- they'd have to just make do with varejao + a stopgap vet-min type -- but next summer they have the full MLE, the BAE, and possibly 3 first round picks, minus whatever they'd move in the love deal. with those tools at their disposal, they can get decent rim protection. you're not getting hibbs or ibaka but you wouldn't need to. those guys make 8 figs annual b/c they also have significant offensive responsibilities, a bron/love/irving core would have that covered. they'd literally just need a guy to protect the paint, w/ no real scoring duties. guys like that are eminently available and affordable.

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

there's plenty of guys on that list that could be had w/ MLE money or less and who'd give them exactly what they needed. robin lopez, mahinmi, udoh, mosgov, withey, o'quinn, the aforeshitted-on biyombo and gobert. you might laugh at some of those names, but you might have laughed at joel anthony and chris andersen too. and it's not that i'm even endorsing those specific names, just pointing out the types of guys they could realistically target who would be more than sufficient. or if they decided to go the draft route, i named some guys earlier who went late 1st and 2nd rd. they wouldn't need an all star there, or even a guy who they'd depend on at all for scoring. just somebody to stand in front of the rim, alter shots and be a presence.

to paraphrase big boi, you don't worry about the wood grain steering wheel til after you get the rims. kevin love is the fucking rims, man. get him into the fold and worry about the accoutrements later. as i said in the other thread, the challenge of building around 3 top 20 guys is a *good* problem to have.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
256. "EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 03:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
267. "dudes are tripping."
In response to Reply # 256


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/22Vr7tc.png

biyombo and gobert were 2 of the better young rim protectors in the league last year. per-minute blocks on a par with hibbert and ibaka.

you add 2 cheapo guys like that to a lebron/love/irving core, with waiters, thompson and a couple veteran wing shooters off the bench. play them 20 minutes apiece and go smallball w/ thompson @ center for the other 8. and you're winning the damn title.

it's not rocket science.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 06:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
276. "both of them are cheap because they're on rookie contracts"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

let's slow our roll on how cheap rim protectors are when the only examples of cheap ones are on rookie deals.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 06:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
277. "nothing's stopping CLE from drafting / trading for a guy..."
In response to Reply # 276
Tue Jul-22-14 06:42 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

who's still on rookie scale.

and even after rookie scale, guys that are SOLELY rim protectors with no real offensive duties can be had for MLE or thereabouts. and that's all a bron/love/irving cavs team would need @ center.

>let's slow our roll on how cheap rim protectors are when the
>only examples of cheap ones are on rookie deals.

this isn't true. saying it over and over won't make it true.

look at the list i posted. every guy on there isn't either on rookie scale or making huge money. robin lopez and mahinmi were MLE guys. udoh and mozgov are UFAs that won't break the bank. koufos is cheap. i'm not saying there's a ton of guys, but they're out there and smart front offices find them.

we're not talking about all pros here. you guys are setting the bar too high w/ this hibbert/ibaka stuff. you're not gonna get great all around players @ every single position.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 07:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
278. "an nba championship team doesn't start mozgov or mahinmi"
In response to Reply # 277


  

          

at center and not desperately try to upgrade. biyombo couldnt get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the rim protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 08:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
279. "EGGZACKLEE (c) Magic Johnson"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 09:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
282. "to be honest..."
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

i don't think cleveland is going to be looking to invest 10 or 12 or 14 million a yr on a starting center regardless of whether or not they trade for love. they are going to have to resign thompson and waiters and wiggins at some point.

i think they're going to be looking for the 25 yr old equivalents of haslem and birdman and joel anthony, exactly the type of cheapo role guys that you all are disparaging.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 08:08 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
280. "an nba championship team doesn't start haslem and joel anthony at center"
In response to Reply # 278
Tue Jul-22-14 08:25 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

until one did.

i wouldn't call either of them a markedly better rim protector than ian mahinmi.

>biyombo couldnt get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the
>rim protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.

sure. why not?

biyombo didn't play more minutes in charlotte because the team was poorly constructed with no real scoring punch on the wing and desperately needed jefferson's scoring from its center position. a team with 20+ppg scorers at 3 other positions would have different needs there.

when biyombo was on the floor, opponents shot under 39% at the rim. that's elite level rim protection. if you're writing him off at 21 years old and don't think he could make a bigger contribution in the future in a different situation, you're being very shortsighted.

what about robin lopez? he couldn't be an effective starter w/ bron, love and irving? he's currently on a 3yr 15M contract, after being given up on early in his career by multiple teams.





>at center and not desperately try to upgrade. biyombo couldnt
>get 20 minutes a game in charlotte, but he'll be the rim
>protector Cleveland needs? ok, player.
>
>-----------
>Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014
>-Rex LongFellow
>
>Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt
>after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario
>
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 11:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
286. "Biyombo didn't get enough meaningful minutes for those stats to matter"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

He was a scrub playing against other teams scrubs.

Robin Lopez is the best example you've got and he's making almost seven million on a contract that would be deemed cheap for what he provides. So....not a cheap player.

Miami starting Harlem and Anthony and bird man is a part of why they only won two rings while starting Lebron, bosh, and wade. Alternatively, I'd say Lebron, Irving, and a better constructed set of role players would do better than Lebron, Irving, love, and cheap players.

But please, let's both continue saying the same thing at each other with different examples. Fun!
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 11:25 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
288. "question:"
In response to Reply # 286


  

          

so let's say they don't trade for love, keep wiggins and pursue a rim protector instead, via trade or free agency next yr.

can you give me some specific examples of guys you think they should pursue? i'm just trying to get an idea.

i know you already mentioned hibbert. who else?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
321. "Lopez would be nice. but he's not "cheap" anymore"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

a gortat or asik woulda been perfect. this is the point, though. I don't think rim protectors are out there in numbers. that's why i value it highly.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:56 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
352. "ok i see."
In response to Reply # 321


  

          

see, if i'm cleveland, i'd rather have lebron, love and irving, and then try to find the NEXT gortat or asik. not the 30 yr old versions that already require big money, but the orlando gortat or the chicago asik.

i really do think that you could put those three with a low-cost specialist like biyombo or gobert @ center and be in business. pair one of those younger guys with a cheap vet like udoh or mahinmi and they'd be fine. i'm not targeting guys in the 10-15M/yr range, i think that's overkill and an unnecessary waste.





>a gortat or asik woulda been perfect. this is the point,
>though. I don't think rim protectors are out there in numbers.
>that's why i value it highly.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 06:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
355. "it's not unreasonable"
In response to Reply # 352


  

          

but it's not likely you'll find the asik or gortat, else, they wouldn't get 10+ mil in fagency.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 07:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
357. "it's a challenge i'd gladly welcome."
In response to Reply # 355


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
343. "Why not? They could get three or four such guys for $ of Hibbert"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

Look at the Spurs, they have had guys like Oberto and Rose playing next to Duncan. I am not saying Love is on Duncan's level, I am just saying that you can have a star and then a bunch of depth specialists. That seems like a fine recipe. They don't need Mutombo, shit they could probably settle for Kendrick Perkins.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
351. "playing next to duncan vs. next to love matters, imo"
In response to Reply # 343


  

          

duncan was the defensive leader in the paint when they had scrub ass guys playing next to him.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 01:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
519. "why were people posting like they didnt have varejao and thompson tho?"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

healthy varejao is a hustle guy, rebounder, rim protector. thompson can hit the boards. love, obviously, is an asset on the glass. if they got another guy like a mozgov he wouldn't be a huge piece of the puzzle or even a starter.

the whole "NO RIM PROTECTOR" argument snowballed quickly and i can't figure out why. i also can't figure out why this poll didnt swing appropriately when it was about even. a lot of people will live to regret what they said in here.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
212. ""the best draft prospect in years"?"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

you talking about the guy who was going 3rd to philly until embiid broke his foot? let's not pretend that cleveland is punting on '85 ewing or '92 shaq here.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Thu Jul-17-14 11:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
15. "I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 12:06 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

For as much people want to poo poo on Bosh about his performance, he was the defensive lynchpin for that Miami team due to his combination of length and agility...a team that was predicated on their defense. He was also big enough to play at the 5 so you could move Bron to the 4 which made for a very quick defensive team. We know that in the playoffs the game turns into a grind and weaknesses in your half-court defense get amplified....and they certainly would get amplified with Love in the game. Wiggins is going to be a stud defensively....not only due to his athleticism and length but he clearly already shows a dedication that side of the ball that you often don't see in players of his age and especially of that level of being hyped. Further, with Wiggins being on a rookie contract vs Love's (what will be a) max, that allows the team some financial flexibility in acquiring a paint protector.

I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "This is where I'm at:"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


>I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his
>defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on
>a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure
>with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary
>defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
woodsen2
Member since Jan 14th 2003
996 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "RE: I wouldn't, their team defense would suffer immensely"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>I really like Love but I think if Kyrie increases his
>defensive effort (which will happen since he's now playing on
>a winning team and not just for buckets) and ball pressure
>with Lebron and Wiggins on the wings, that's a really scary
>defensive unit who can take away a lot of offensive options.

Couldn't the same be said for Love or is he just incapable of being a solid defender? He was carrying the entire wolves offense

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "Sure, but they have completely different defensive roles "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

As a 4, Love is going to be playing in space defensively and asked to protect the paint and rim. That's going to be an issue with his size, strength, and speed limitations. Kyrie has the lateral ability and quickness to apply ball pressure, it's just a matter of effort.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "Exactly, his strengths are already the Cavs strengths"
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Jul-18-14 12:16 AM by MothershipConnection

  

          

There's only so many shots to go around and only so many missed shots to grab, and any team with Kyrie/Bron is gonna score a grip of points, and the Cavs as constructed are already a strong rebounding team.

At some point you have to address defense and young athletic defenders who aren't a total offensive liability don't grow on trees. I mean it's easy to say "oh we can just teach these guys to defend" but there's a reason why guys like Kawhi Leonard are so valuable. I'm trusting Wiggins can defend at an above average clip while filling the lane for a dunk and making a few open shots once in a while (he doesn't even have to do things he sucks at like dribble or create next to Bron!).

And I realize that the Cavs need to impress this year and next, but as Bron gets older, his skills are going to gravitate to the playmaking 4, which is the same thing Love does.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "Bro, WTF does Bosh have to do with it?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Is losing Wiggins going to hurt their INTERIOR defense? It may not even hurt their perimeter defense in the short run (though ultimately he will be good at that end). Is losing Bennett or Waiters going to hurt their interior D?

You add Love--bang, 10+ boards a game, fuels transition--then you have a healthy Andy, who does nothing but hustle and defend, and you get Dieng in the deal. Now your team is bigger and better defensively. I am really surprised that you've had 24 hours to think about this and are still pushing this flimsy argument.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
135. "The point is you need rim and paint protection"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I've had more than 24 hours to think about it and it's still pretty simple to me: With Love at the 4, you are going to have some major issues on the backside of your defensive rotation and I was using Bosh as an example to show the kind of complementary piece and fit that Cleveland should wait to pay rather than locking themselves in with Love. You wanna call my argument flimsy yet fail to recognize that defensive rebounding and outlet passing aren't nearly equal to a backside rim protector especially when A) Love will be pulled away from the paint far more often and B) Varejao isn't much of a rim protector either. I haven't seen the iteration of the deal where Cleveland gets Dieng and Minny would remiss to include him imo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsy6BOgIEAAsGA5.jpg

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "No - and I luls me some K Love but he plays ABSOLUTELY NO defense"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 12:17 AM by vee-lover

  

          

He's worse than Bosh on that end of the floor

His game would be a better fit on a team like GS

While I don't completely subscribe to this idea that "he's putting up numbers on a bad squad," I do wonder why his impressive stats don't seem to translate into team wins - the Timberwolves haven't even been in the hunt for an 8th seed...

Now, maybe he'll become more committed on defense if he were playing w/Lebron but I think he's just a lousy defender and might always be a liability on that end of the floor

Wiggins has the makings to be a special defensive player because of his length, quickness, and the effort to which he puts forth on that end of the floor ALREADY and his offensive game can and will improve, especially practicing and playing w/Lebron everyday - I just think it's befitting that Cleveland drafts him no.1 and then Lebron returns w/an opportunity to be a mentor to Wiggins who ppl were making comparisons to Lebron, ironically, although their gms aren't similar in any way (odd that Parker has been compared to Melo more so than any other player)

Love almost gives the Cavs the same thing Bosh gave the Heat: the ability to stretch the floor..but what he doesn't give the Cavs is also what Bosh couldn't give the Heat and that's an inside presence, somebody that you can throw the ball into the low post and they can get you 2, which is what that Cavs team is going to need just as the Heat could no longer mask that weakness of not having a real post threat (Tristan Thompson/Varajeo/Bennett ain't enough although Bennett has been looking impressive in summer league)

W/Wiggins, I like the idea of the Cavs being an up tempo team, w/Love, they'd probably be more of a half-court team.

Like I said before, as far as I'm concerned, Wiggins' potential is worth the risk of losing a proven double-double machine in KLove

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "So? Is Wiggins going to be their presence inside?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

No, although he projects to be a good defender, that isn't his position/role. Are you going to say having a stopper in 2-3 years is worth giving up 20+ and 10+ RIGHT TODAY? Are these other guys that might go in the trade going to do it?

If they have Varejao and Dieng, they have plenty of inside muscle, plus Love doing his thing on the glass.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35261 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
21. "the NO votes are insane to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A starting lineup with Irving, James, Love, and Varejao can put a journeyman at 2 guard and be a legit contender. If they can hold on to Waiters they are a favorite.

An Irving, Wiggins, James, AB?, Varejao lineup will struggle to score and will get pounded on the glass. Love will create offense for everyone in the frontcourt, and his defensive rebounding keeps him from being bad enough defensively to justify NOT making the trade.

Love will immediately be the best teammate lebron has ever had.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "I'm saying, WTF, how is this thing still basically even?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

And I really, really like Wiggins.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:32 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
23. "I'd at LEAST wait until the trade deadline."
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:33 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "It will HURT the CAVS defensively"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "Let's look at this from all angles:"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 01:03 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

K-Love shot 18 times a game...30% of his shots were 3's. He shot 45% from the field (50% on 2's, 37% on 3's). Very strong defensive rebounder, avg offensive rebounder. 4.4 apg. Less than a steal and a .45 blocks per game.

Kyrie shot 17 times a game...27% of his shots were 3's. He shot 43% from the field, (45% on 2's, 35% on 3's). 1.5 spg.

Bron shot 17 times a game...27% of his shots were 3's. He shot 56% from the field (62% on 2's, 37% on 3's). 1.5 spg.


Now...playing with Bron, Wade and Bosh put up 14 and 12 shots per game. I'm thinking there's gonna be some HUGE sacrifices here. Is love really worth Wiggins' potential at 14 shots? 4 of which will probably be 3's? I will say that he might have better rebounding numbers BUT, he might not. Might be lateral. And he doesn't intimidate anyone on D. Love's shot chart shows that he spent his time either shooting 3's or posting up/getting layups off penetration. When he's shooting 3's he can't rebound.

To top that off...he'll make 15 mil next season and will want a Max extension.

I dunno fam. If he was a much better defender, this would be a no brainer but I don't see them being as effective as Miami. And the reason is that 2010-2012 Wade>>>>>>>>>Kyrie as a defender, Bosh>>>>>>>Love as a defender. A LOT of their defensive prowess rested on the big 3 and guys like Battier and UD. The Cavs don't have those guys and can't get them if they sign Love.

I'd much rather develop Wiggins under Bron, let those two (and Kyrie's quick hands) pressure the perimeter, Andy and Tristan eat glass and let Kyrie/Bron take the bulk of the shots (efficiently) and distribute accordingly.

A Cavs team with Love will have huge issues getting stops and filling out the roster due to the cap sitch.

A Cavs team with Wiggins has to wait on his development and may need to lean on Bron and Kyrie for more O but they'd be a solid defensive team with cap to fill out the roster with a rim protector and depth possibly.

I'd rather have the D and flexibility. People keep referring to Miami's big 3 as what it could look like but it could also look like the Laker's big 3 last year that didn't work. Would Love (and Kyrie to a lesser extent) be less effective with less opportunity?

Because Bron gonna get his.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "i think they can win either way"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people in here devaluing love's game will be the first ones to say he cant hold it down as the MAN..which i agree he cant at all..so he has to be the second or 3rd guy...kyrie is going to have to adjust his game anyways with bron on the floor...i think love is the perfect fit ...with the ability to lure a big from the middle and open it up for bron with his 3pt shooting or pound the glass...the outlet passing and fast break aspect shawn spoke on makes him more enticing ..

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb ass"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I will give you personally a pass from that designation because I know your objections to this trade are mostly agenda & good ole fashioned hating based.

The rest of y'all need to smarten up or shut up because it's getting tiring to listen to already and we're a week into The Return.

Cleveland is a team with no post players and Love is a 25-year-old proven elite power forward, one of the leagues best rebounders, outlet passers and jump shooting big men.

To think that you would pass up a peak year or more of Lebron's peak years as he turns 30 and just returned to a franchise with no titles, all out of fear that a 19-year-old swing man yet to play a pro game might hurt you is the sorriest exercise in overthinking a team could do.

Luckily for the City of Cleveland, as long as Bron has opt-outs at the end of each season, Lebron is running the Cavaliers and he left those last two picks' names out that letter for a reason.

He's gonna make sure they get his Team USA teammate.

Try to do the deal without Wiggins but when that fails, as it will, they're gonna bite the bullet as they should.

You don't get players of that caliber without giving up something good and you don't hope that you can wait out a guy for a calendar year in hopes he will head to Cleveland in free agency.

Whatever Wiggins develops into by the time he reaches his prime doesn't matter, because Lebron/Kyrie/Love will have already won a title or two by then or something disastrous happened anyway.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "it really is hard to believe."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

i mean, we've all got our individual opinions, sure. but objectively? statistically? kevin love was one of the top 5 players in the league last year. even allowing for 'padding' and what not, you don't 'stat stuff' your way to those type of historic numbers unless you're really really fucking good. the idea that fans, media, and even actual nba execs have been balking on whether to include guys like klay thompson, brad beal, jimmy butler or an unproven 19 yr old andrew wiggins in an effort to acquire him is profoundly mind boggling to me.

if only one of the GMs with balls and vision, someone like morey or ainge or the dallas guys, had the necessary assets. they'd have gone out and sealed the deal on this guy months ago.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 04:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
360. "U & I'll be back in this post later surveying the wreckage like this one..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=66263&mesg_id=66263&listing_type=search

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:25 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "RE: If that's what it takes then HELL YES & anyone disagreeing is a dumb..."
In response to Reply # 27


          





^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Like for real. This is some over-thinking/bizarro world shit.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "/post"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15308 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "yes, over and over and over."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really, really like the idea of this backcourt of an all-star becoming a superstar and a rookie destined for good things combined with one of the five dudes who's handled expectations as humbly and professionally as anyone possibly could while also becoming the best since the best..

But you give that story up for the fantastic all-star, the best since the best and the best player in the league who hash't figured out how to lead yet. That player doesn't need to lead anymore, but gets to learn how, while you avoid having to teach NBA basketball to a guy who'll haunt you championships down the road.

The only reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins is I (the Cavs GM/Gilbert) happen to really like him as a person and don't want to put him in that situation, or LeBron openly discusses it in a negative way to myself or worse the media.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:54 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "Cleveland has to try and win now.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and what if Wiggins never becomes the player that Love is?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DeepAztheRoot
Member since Dec 19th 2003
13992 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "I agree, this is their window"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Fuck tomorrow, LeBron's hourglass is belching sand

this is the same as baseball guys who overvalue prospects over a legitimate opportunity at a WS appearance

<-Fear Ameer

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "if they think he won't leave again for a chance to win chips"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

they'll be burning jerseys again...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "and that's the thing, keeping Wiggins even if Lebron leaves you still..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

have Wiggins and Kyrie for possibly the next 10-15 years, with Love's style of play I could see him falling off in few years while you're still paying him max money

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. "but they're betting on winning & keeping Bron the rest of his career"
In response to Reply # 44
Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

I can't be mad at that..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Marz
Member since Feb 08th 2008
217 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "What about opportunity cost?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Let's say Cleveland has two trade packages:

Package A: Wiggins, Thompson, and a 1st round pick

Package B: Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and two first round picks

Package A is superior. But couldn't they leverage Package B into an inferior power forward who might improve their defense?
For example, couldn't Package B get Kenneth Faried or Al Horford?

Horford + Wiggins >>> Love + Waiters IMO.

That said, if it comes down to Wiggins for Love, then yes, the trade should be made. But unless Golden State comes off Klay, Minnesota will wait and Cleveland should make them wait to see exactly what they have in Wiggins.

Come to think of it, is there a realistic trade package anywhere in the league that does not involve Klay that tops Package B?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10884 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Love's stats likely dropping doesn't matter"
In response to Reply # 0


          

That's just what happens when any star (other than LeBron) joins a more talented team... you don't have to do EVERYTHING; you can either focus on what the team needs most or what you do best.

Love's weakest area is defense so as long as THAT isn't what a team needs most from him, he's a great addition because he can do just about anything else.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "meh if lebron really is pushing for this then it's good as done"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 07:55 AM by southphillyman

  

          

the two things i don't like about it:

a)we probably never will see the full potential of wiggins if he goes to minny. if wiggins struggles early in a shitty situation the people in here campaigning hard as hell for yes votes (lol @ dula high 5'ing everyone that agrees with him) will use that as some sort of validation but i think most ppl understand the excitement over his potential lies in the assumption he develops on a good team under the tutelage of bron. if wiggins goes to minny i think fans of basketball lose out overall

b)the addition of love will take shots away from kyrie and likely knock him down to 3rd banana. not that big a deal as he'll still probably get off. i was just interested in seeing what he could do on a good team in the spotlight , his contribution will be diminished with the additional all star and i could see there being questions about what he could have done like there were with bosh


the funny thing about all the debate is i think most ppl on both sides would agree with the following.....
EITHER team is a contender to come out the east
NEITHER team would be a clear cut favorite against a strong western team in the short term
props to bron for wanting to deal with the big 3 pressure/hate again and we'll finally see how kyrie and love will react to the daily microscope

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "In all the months building up to the draft"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

> but i think most ppl
>understand the excitement over his potential lies in the
>assumption he develops on a good team under the tutelage of
>bron. if wiggins goes to minny i think fans of basketball lose
>out overall

Nobody thought Wiggins would be playing with Lebron. It was assumed that he would be a very high pick, likely going to a bad team. Prior to a couple weeks ago, nobody thought Wiggins and Lebron would be playing together in 2014-15, and people were still high on Wiggins' prospects.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "yea i'm talking about the excitement now"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

which i think is at another level than it was pre bron
obviously if wiggins becomes a superstar in minny, then it's a clear win for them (probably is regardless) and even more question marks will be there if the cavs don't become champions multiple times

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "Y'all think Kyrie taking a backseat to Love?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I can understand taking a backseat to Bron but Love? Nah. I think this is gonna be a problem unless Love is cool being the 3rd option.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "Right, Love is going to be on Chris Bosh 3rd banana status and that's..."
In response to Reply # 38
Fri Jul-18-14 08:07 AM by ThaTruth

          

the thing, you can deal with a guy that's a defensive liability if he's giving you 25-30 points a night, when they're give you 15-18ppg and giving up 20+ on the other end then you start to wonder what the point is.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "he's more accomplished than kyrie and better offensively than bosh"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

not sure it's really comparable to bosh joining wade and bron but maybe yall right
of course limiting love offensively diminishes his value so i'm leaning to him maintaining a healthy output

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. ""more accomplished" in what regard?"
In response to Reply # 41


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "every?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

i mean if we're going with the whole bird in the hand shit
love is a better player than kyrie right now. even his defensive rating is better (lol)
this ain't kyrie team anymore folks, lol. it's brons. kyrie role will be whatever bron tells gilbert it will be. let's relax and see what this becomes before any assumptions get made

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "neither one has ever been to the playoffs so neither has accomplished..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

anything my eyes

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "k"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

guru0509
Charter member
45358 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:04 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
39. "Lol, no brainer. Bird in the hand >>>> "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "it's 13+ boards, man...and if they throw in dieng...you HAVE to do it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Ok, so would the Cavs be the fav to win it all if they got Love?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I still say they wouldn't

and if they don't win it this upcoming season (or next) then the trade will prove not to be as ideal as ppl believe it will...and by adding Love, it will limit the Cavs to go out and sign players in the future


The chances of them coming out of the east would definitely increase adding Love...but they were picked as the team to come out of the east even w/o Love or at least one of the top 3 teams in the east

A lineup of...
G/Kyrie
G/Waiters
C/Varajeo
F/Love
F/Bron

Looks like a team that won't be very good defensively

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "whatever. Cavs come out the East. "
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "And they can do that *without* Love lol but even w/Love I don't"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

think they would be the favorites to win it all

Which a trade like that should mean - a title right away

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "lol, Kyrie didn't want to share the ball with Waiters and now he's gotta..."
In response to Reply # 49


          

share it Waiters, Bron, AND Love? People really think he's going to play the 3rd banana role behind Love? Do people realize how big that kid's ego is?

>A lineup of...
>G/Kyrie
>G/Waiters
>C/Varajeo
>F/Love
>F/Bron
>
>Looks like a team that won't be very good defensively

and lol@ all these people talking about Varajeo as a starter. He's averaged less than 30 starts a season for his entire 10 year NBA career now all of a sudden people think he's going to start all 82? or even half that?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "no...WAITERS gonna have to share the ball. Kyrie will be fine. "
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Kyrie gonna handle the ball no matter what and he knows how to get open without it. hte idea of waiters being a 4th option is comedy, because i know enough of that dude now. he gotta go. that's a disaster waiting to happen.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "I basically agree with you about Kyrie which is why I think Love is goin..."
In response to Reply # 66


          

to be the 3rd option so if he's giving you 15-18ppg instead of 25 is he really worth it?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "it's more about his skills than his stats..."
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Jul-18-14 10:02 AM by Basaglia

  

          

elite rebounder - which prevents second opportunities on one end and creates them on the other.

can hit from outside - opening lanes for lebron and kyrie

one of the best passing bigs.

great in pick and roll - clutchtime execution and lots of scoring options, whether he runs it with lebron and kyrie spots up or vice versa.

he damn sure ain't gettin 25 with bron and kyrie, but his rebounding might even increase. 18 and 15 would be just fine.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "I don't know, playing with 2 penetrators like Lebron and Kryie, Love..."
In response to Reply # 101


          

might be forced to become even more perimeter-oriented in Cleveland, moving his game away from the basket is going to affect his rebounding numbers. You already see him trending that way in Minnesota.

Look Bosh's rebound numbers in Miami. Its not like he forgot how to rebound all of a sudden. He had to move his game away from the basket to accommodate Wade and Lebron.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "he's been perimeter oriented. he's worked on improving range every year"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "right, and his rebounding numbers are going in the opposite direction"
In response to Reply # 128


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "not really...there's not legit correlation there"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:09 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "nah, they're still behind the Spurs"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

and probably a couple other Western teams, but they'd definitely be favorites in the East now that the Pacers lost Lance.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "that's thing, people are acting Love = automatic title when that ain't....."
In response to Reply # 59


          

the case, so what's the point of shitcanning your future for 1 or 2 eastern conference titles?

After 2 years of not winning a title with Love and Bron, Love and Kyrie's contracts on the books with little room to add anything else Lebron is going to bounce again. Hell it may happen after year 1 if he sees the writing on the wall.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "i don't think people are acting like that"
In response to Reply # 73
Fri Jul-18-14 09:43 AM by pretentious username

  

          

but he obviously gets them closer to a title in the immediate future. it's a star big man joining Bron, why wouldn't people be getting excited about that?

we also don't know what Love and Kyrie's next contracts will look like, or the salary cap in a couple years for that matter, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about money

edit: just to be clear, I don't think this trade is a good idea, but there is logic behind it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "To win it all? We don't know yet. To win the East? YES."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "nah. which undermines the biggest part of the pro-Love argument"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
yaye?

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "my point exactly, lol"
In response to Reply # 71


          

>build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
>yaye?
>

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "^^Egg zacklee.....if they (meaning Bron/front office) think by adding"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

love this puts them over the top then go out and roll the dice

But

IMO that team still wouldn't be the favorites to win it all...and could they even beat a *healthy* Rose-led team?


>build a win now team......that likely wouldn't win now
>yaye?
>

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "rose got locked up by bron when he was an uncut 100%...FOH!"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "yeah I think Indy is still a bigger threat even without Stephens..."
In response to Reply # 87


          

PG can play Lebron to a draw, I think West and Hibbert would feast on Love and Varejao inside.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "ain't nobody scared of rose or the buLLs"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


>IMO that team still wouldn't be the favorites to win it
>all...and could they even beat a *healthy* Rose-led team?


with Love though this shit is title or bust for Bron
and with the jordan stans looking for any leverage in postponing bron legacy eclipsing jorn...bron can't really afford any more finals Ls

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "that assumes that Wiggins turns out to be great instead of Larry Hughes"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Lebron is worried he'll be Larry Hughes. I'd be worried about that too.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
258. "He will be better than Larry Hughes but the people thinking ..."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

blue-chip superstar? I dunno. I think he will be a player similar to Eddie Jones or Shawn Marion in terms of his star quality/impact. That's a very good player, but not a generational talent.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
170. "lol, how is it not likely to win now?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

with love, they are heavy favorites in the east. reaching the finals is the first step to winning the title. would they need to shore up defensively? yes. can they attract players with this group? absolutely.

you don't not acquire a star because you don't have the role players in place. that's especially true when the outgoing players don't fill those roles either. this is just about the dumbest fucking argument i have ever heard, and that is saying something.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 08:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "^^^This I agree with"
In response to Reply # 48
Fri Jul-18-14 09:00 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

If Dieng is included...bye wiggy!

Otherwise I'd have reservations. Especially when they could probably get a more affordable option with Marz' package B suggestion. Denver would eat that deal alive.

Either way the team will be good but I don't think love will answer the issues those in favor of the trade are minimizing.

First time they're in a close playoff game, Kyrie gets beat off the Dibble and love doesn't rotate fast enough, shit will get real and you'll see that 'disgust' face from Bron. Now, a team that had locker room issues takes on a guy who's had issues with his front office and has a rep as being a dick to teammates. If things go sour, which would me anything less than conf finals this year, finals next year, then what? Because the expectations will rise with love. At least a year or 2 was expected with Wiggins. If it's gonna be the same span of time to it, I'd take my chances on Wiggins.

I wonder if this was a 19 year old Lebron, would people so feel the same. Because hindsight is a bitch. Players shouldn't GM. GM's should and if you can get a deal that satisfies your needs not including Wiggins, I'd do that first.

And let's not forget, this is the Cavs front office we are talking about not Miami's.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "where is this dieng rumor coming from?"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

i saw someone mention it in a thread and now cats running with it
i guess broussard sources worth bout as much as a reply in a thread but most what i'm seeing is wiggins and waiter||bennett and some firsts for love and some kibble and bits
if they get dieng then yea you do that shit since it addresses the cavs main deficiency

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "He's a piece that is in play and has the kind of contract that fits"
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Jul-18-14 09:23 AM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Even if they don't get him, you don't think a similar player could become available? The bottom line is that you're not getting Love in free agency or the draft or a minor trade. You could get a banger through any of those avenues.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "cavs pursuing this shit more than the wolves at this point"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

really the wolves have played this whole thing brilliantly by being patient and bluffing like they don't have to move love
cavs done already reneged on the wiggins part of the deal
dieng not being included ain't going block it at this point
would be nice if they got him though

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "rightfully so because the wolves can find another suitor for love wherea..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

cleveland cannot find another player his caliber.

the idea that cleveland had all the leverage was ridiculous. i do not think minnesota has *all* the leverage, especially as time passes, but they have slightly more.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "I haven't seen him mentioned outside of this board"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

It's possible he's in play, but are any other outlets reporting this? Is this the Sports equivalent of some weird True Detective fan theory?

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "its some "only on OKS" shit, lol"
In response to Reply # 82


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "yikes lmao"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

> Is this the Sports equivalent of some weird
>True Detective fan theory?

as a bron fan i hope dude is included
just seemed like ppl were pulling a name out of their ass since the rumored pieces would leave the cavs with some holes

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "it's on twitter, where all the rumors are"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:11 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
61. "Wait they're talking about Dieng too?"
In response to Reply # 48


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "yes...that's why nothing's done. cavs want more for wiggins. "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:33 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "That changes everything for me. Love PLUS Dieng for Wiggins..."
In response to Reply # 69


          

and Cavs undesirables is a solid deal. To the point where the Wolves will be pretty stupid to do it and not ask for Bennett too.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "I agree with this"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>To the point where the
>Wolves will be pretty stupid to do it and not ask for Bennett
>too.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
115. "Yeah, there's no reason you should give up your best player and..."
In response to Reply # 83


          

best young player during the 2nd year of his rookie deal just for Wiggins and a bunch of guys the Cavs probably don't want anyway, because they've essentially drafted over them already.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "the thing is, there's no urgency for Minnesota, they can drag this out....."
In response to Reply # 77


          

until the trade deadline which they probably will

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:49 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "a half season rental vs. full season might hurt his trade value"
In response to Reply # 84
Fri Jul-18-14 09:50 AM by pretentious username

  

          

but it depends on how desperate the team getting him is too. they're not in a good position right now. if they can get wiggins they should jump at the chance.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
123. "Nobody is going to trade major assets for Love without him signing a new..."
In response to Reply # 93


          

contract and he WANTS that sign and trade so he can get the max money

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:15 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
139. "if he doesn't want to, and they're desperate enough, they will."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "Agreed. He solves a huge need for the Cavs going forward."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

I'd be okay with that deal too if Dieng is involved.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
41249 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
137. "Minny would be really silly to include Dieng "
In response to Reply # 77
Fri Jul-18-14 11:08 AM by LA2Philly

  

          

He has a very unique skillset and is clearly improving. Love + Dieng would be highway robbery imo.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "you niggers are acting like wig got a hummer in hs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck outta here.. that nigga gone.. and still gotta
prove himself

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "ha "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59181 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:45 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
216. ""the best draft prospect in years", apparently."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 09:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
246. "dyin.. lol"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

jdevolve1
Member since Mar 04th 2003
4230 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "Why would they have to do this right now?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Love wants to play with Bron (and vice versa) as bad as we think he does, why won't the Cavs just be patient and wait til to scoop him up in Free Agency next year? I get it, Wiggins is a "prospect" but for arguments sake lets say he lives up to his hype/potential? Why make that trade right now to "maybe" win something this year? If I'm the Cavs, I chill and take my relative "lumps" this year and go after Love next year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
57006 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:29 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
76. "learn from the Knicks mistakes with Melo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "It's a NO for me. I think Wiggins is the real deal. CLE will regret"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trading him

4-5 years from now, when Bron is looking at retirement, or at least slowing down a bit

Wiggins will just be hitting his stride and looking to take the reigns

CLE w/Love and Irving and no Bron = MIN

I'm not a big Love fan

comparison to Bosh aside, he did take TOR to the offs and a division title

Love can't even get MIN to a winning record

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "But if they win 2 titles in that time before he gets old and retires..."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Isn't that worth it?

Especially given how many #1 picks don't become great.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "I'm sayin. People talking 5 years from now as if Lebron is 25"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "dude is 30 & Kawhi was eating his lunch the last 3 games of the finals"
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Jul-18-14 10:22 AM by LegacyNS

  

          

Bron has maybe 2 or 3 year to remain physically dominant over the rest of the league and that clock has already started ticking..

Plus Cleveland has a 2 year lease. You gotta go for it now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "And some of that (imo) was fatigue from having to guard Kawhi"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

one mintue, Danny Green the next then TP and then throw in Diaw and occasionally, Duncan

He looked worn down to me...particularly on the defensive side

Which is why at this point in his career he needs another young stud on D taking some of the pressure of having to always guard the other team's best player or hot hand...

Do what Pip eventually started to do for MJ when MJ hit his 30s...

I see him burdened on D if they trade Wiggins for Love because Kyrie/Love/Waiters and whoever else aren't any good on that end of the floor...and Bron gin be saddled once again w/having to do too much (on defense) to cover up the team's weaknesses.

>Bron has maybe 2 or 3 year to remain physically dominant over
>the rest of the league and that clock has already started
>ticking..
>
>Plus Cleveland has a 2 year lease. You gotta go for it now.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><---- 5....
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo
>
>=======================================
>
>Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard
>to 32462!

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
182. "it was the overall load on Bron which at 23 wouldn't have been an issue"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

but at 30 after 4 str8 NBA finals trips the wear is starting to show. Bron is still in his prime but he's also 30, not 23..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "that's thing, most people think that even with Love it won't be enough....."
In response to Reply # 89


          

to beat the better teams out west in the finals so what's the point?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "Like they thought past prime KG/Ray Allen/Pierce wasn't enough"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Man make the deal.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "lol, KG was still in his prime when he came to Boston, I remember most....."
In response to Reply # 99


          

of the questions about that team going in were about Rondo and whether he was ready to run a championship team

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
199. "Idiot, they said Pierce/KG wasn't enough (sans Ray)"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

KG didn't sign off until Ray signed off.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking"
In response to Reply # 89
Fri Jul-18-14 09:58 AM by bentagain

  

          

and that's where I'm a no

As someone posted above

this is a unique, and ideal situation for a #1 pick

having Bron in CLE is going to make the game alot easier for Wiggins

he's not coming to CLE and being asked to carry the team

his role is much more defined

and from what I've seen

I think he'll thrive

everything else with Love is an ?

I wouldn't trade Wiggins for a ?

what makes you think they can't win a chip without Love?

Bron carried a hobbled Wade (and Bosh for those that don't remember) to 4 straight finals and back to back chips

I don't see any reason to not expect chips in CLE w/Wiggins, IMO.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

We've seen him play 0 pro games....0

And you're telling me a mutiple all star double double machine is a ?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "RE: How is Love a ? and Wiggins not?"
In response to Reply # 102
Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM by bentagain

  

          

just my opinion is all

as I said, IMO, I think he's the real deal

base, we're talking about trading for a complimentary player to run with Bron

IMO, Wiggins not only has the ability to play that role early in his career

and still have CLE in title contention

but also has the possiblity of becoming the franchise player when Bron slows down

and still have CLE in title contention

I don't see that with Love

all I see is a complimentary player to run with Bron

if he's asked to be more, CLE = MIN.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "RE: Do you trade Wiggins for an IF, I guess is what you're asking"
In response to Reply # 100


          



U got that backwards, homie....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "Suprised with all the LAL fans on here that nobody's made the Showtime"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

analogy

2 #1 overall picks + a GOAT player

I would rather have that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
193. "Remember when the sixers had 3 #1 picks and sucked"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

#1 picks work sometimes, don't work other times

A #1 pick is always a risk, no matter how great you think someone may be.

Could Wiggins become an all time great and help Cleveland in 5 years? Yes, but he also could be a total bust

Will Love joining Cleveland get them to the NBA finals where anything can happen multiple times at least? That's pretty much the minimum for the Love trade is a few finals appearances.

If you were doing something based on the best risk/success ratio you're going with Love, even if the ultimate ceiling may be lower. It's fine if you don't want to play the safer route, but you're talking like Wiggins is a sure thing and Love is a bust.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
194. "AI, Chris webber and who else?"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

unless you mean one of those early 80s team
but i don't think anyone would say they sucked

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Y2Flound
Member since Aug 16th 2005
9819 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
205. "I think it was Smith, Coleman and AI"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

Point is being a #1 pick doesnt promise anything

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "If Danny Ainge was Cleveland's GM, Love would already be in Cleveland"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Riley, RC, Phil Jackson, etc was the GM, Love would already be in Cleveland.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "oh no doubt ainge living off that 1 chip for a minute"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

meanwhile big al just won 3rd team all nba and is still in his prime
and the celtics throwing up more tanks than no limit in '96
but that chip got ainge that good joe dumars life span
he good

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "Right, I said in another post Ainge's best move as a GM was actually..."
In response to Reply # 104


          

a favor from his boy McHale

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "they won a title and went to the finals another time...just stop"
In response to Reply # 104
Fri Jul-18-14 10:14 AM by Basaglia

  

          

whatchu think teams play for? you think ainge giving up his ring and exec of the year award to get that eggplant nose nigga back? nobody in boston care about no damn al jefferson.

a title buys a GM or coach a DECADE. ainge did his job.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "could have just said "cosign""
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "true"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59181 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "lol"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"LMFAO"


  

          

>whatchu think teams play for? you think ainge giving up his
>ring and exec of the year award to get that eggplant nose
>nigga back?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
257. "Uh, they also were within one game of a second title"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

And also within a game of the finals the following year.

Yeah, that experiment was really lamentable.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "And yet Danny Ainge is Boston's GM..."
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

...and there's no fucking way Kevin Love ends up there...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "lol"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "right, lol"
In response to Reply # 106


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
120. "They haven't been lucky to tank & Danny Ocean the lottery 5 yrs in a row"
In response to Reply # 106


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "But but but but they have Fenway Park and an Ortiz Boston-cosign!"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
144. "KG was the best defensive player in the game when they won"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

Honestly do you think that if you put 2013 Kevin Love with 2008 Paul Pierce and 2008 Ray Allen that they'd be the favorite to win a title? Or would that team give up 110 points per game?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
210. "Of course not but you're putting Love next to THE best player in the gam..."
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

in Lebron and with a PG who may end up being a top 5 PG.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
171. "most likely, but i do think this will get done eventually"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

ultimately bron holds the cards here and what do you think he wants?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

PIMPINCHICAGO
Member since Mar 11th 2003
7441 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "no...Cavs have all of the leverage."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Love doesn't have to sign an extension so even if he is traded he can still be a FA after this season.

Minnesota is trying to get what they can, but that doesn't mean Cleveland should jump on that now when they can just move Varejao this off season and some other contracts and trim the roster to just add him as a free agent.



I hope Cleveland is Cleveland and trades him though.

My Bulls can handle a jumpshooting PF easy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "You HAVE TO roll the dice with Wiggins"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 10:40 AM by John Forte

          

He's probably going to be a disruptive defender right off the bat, and has the potential to develop into a superstar (the kind that leads his team to the 'offs, not the kind who puts up great numbers without winning). His rookie deal gives you the cap flexibility to fill out the roster with quality players.

Also, Love is still going to be around if Wiggins doesn't pan out, either via mid-season trade or free-agency next year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "no you don't"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

if you're dan gilbert
you have to do what lebron instructs you to do
just like he did when he got big Z, shaq, mo willz, jamison, fired mike brown and all the other bron GM decisions

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "lol..."
In response to Reply # 117


          

>if you're dan gilbert
>you have to do what lebron instructs you to do
>just like he did when he got big Z, shaq, mo willz, jamison,
>fired mike brown and all the other bron GM decisions

right, I've said before I think part of the reason Lebron left Miami was because Pat Riley wouldn't let Lebron and his peeps run shit like they get to do in Cleveland.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
133. "Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?"
In response to Reply # 117
Fri Jul-18-14 10:53 AM by auragin_boi

  

          

He didn't win until he went to a front office that did their job and made him do his.

Though I don't have faith in the Cavs FO, the better play is to hold your hand AND explore other trade options. You get a deal for a good PF and/or rim protector (Faried, Monroe, Josh Smith) on the table, we'll see how fast Minny comes off wiggins.

Love already said he wouldn't sign an extension in gstate so they not adding Klay.

If Love just says "I'm not signing an extension unless I go to Clev, otherwise I'll explore FAgency next summer" all this ends and Minny bows down. THAT'S the power play that needs to happen.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "RE: Yup and those moves got Bron how many titles?"
In response to Reply # 133


          


>If Love just says "I'm not signing an extension unless I go to
>Clev, otherwise I'll explore FAgency next summer" all this
>ends and Minny bows down. THAT'S the power play that needs to
>happen.

But he wants that full max extension that he can only get via a sign and trade so he has to play nice

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
John Forte
Member since Feb 22nd 2013
15361 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
163. "He probably won't do a full max extension"
In response to Reply # 151


          

He knows the cap is going up with the next CBA and isn't going to lock himself into a "low" contract. I expect him to sign a 2 year deal like Bron's. Unlike, say Bosh or Melo, he's young enough to be virtually guaranteed to command a mega-max two years from now.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
167. "Love's style of play puts a lot of wear and tear on his body, I think he..."
In response to Reply # 163


          

wants to cash in now

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "RE: cap flexibility "
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

yeah, I was wondering how this would work

with 'Rie's max and Bron's max

how do you add Love, and still fill out a chip roster in CLE?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "with older versions of mike miller and ray allen of course"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "right, both of those dudes were running on fumes last year, lol"
In response to Reply # 127


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
179. "That's a lot of wrong packed into a little space. Bravo."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
136. "All I know is a Kyrie/Love/Old Guy 2 Guard super ain't stopping anyone"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 11:15 AM by MothershipConnection

  

          

I am a fan of Love and I think he is a top 10 player but his strengths double up the Cavs strengths and there are only so many shots to go around and only so many boards to grab. Adding 25 PPG + 25 PPG + 20 PPG scorers won't make them score 120 points a game, it turns to 25 PPG + 20 PPG + 18 PPG (like in Miami and that was an all time great offensive team). I'm sure a Love/Kyrie/Bron lineup is going to score at ridiculous efficiency since their offensive games complement each other so well, but I also know a Love/Kyrie/Anthony Bennett/Old Guy 2 (seriously are they gonna run out Mike Miller or Ray Allen for 30 minutes a game?) is going to absolutely bleed points on the other end. Didn't we see that with the Dwight/Kobe Lakers? Lebron can't cover up for 4 other guys forever and he was already starting to slow down on defense last season.

If there was a more obvious fit like a Serge Ibaka available, Wiggins would be gone yesterday for me, but this ain't fantasy basketball and there are two ends of the court to play. I mean a Love/Bron team would definitely be a contender but I'm still not sure I'd take them over the top Western Conference team.

I also like the "Wiggins is a #1 draft pick, he could bust!" argument. Sure he could bust, but from 2000 to 2012, the 10 of those 13 #1 picks became All Stars. From 1990 to 1999, 8 of those 10 became All Stars. The 80s, 9 of 10 of those guys became All Stars. So if a guy has a roughly 80% chance of being an All Star, he's a fungible asset now?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
152. "^^^REAL TALK"
In response to Reply # 136


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
165. "^^^ keen PEEPOLOGY"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

Bron can't defend everybody.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 01:58 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
252. "I'm not convinced that CLE is necessarily a better situation than"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

trying to reload in Miami... time will tell. Cleveland isn't done making moves..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
138. "Just read Lamarcus will be a FA at the end of the season as well as"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Marc Gasol

I say go after one of them in the off season or try and sign KLove as a FA in the off season

grassrootsphilosopher

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "None of those guys will hit the market as UFAs. Not one."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Rjcc
Charter member
94964 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
145. "LOL you ain't getting them"
In response to Reply # 138


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
146. "here are my thoughts:"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 12:08 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

I will try to condense them here:

I am not opposed to Kevin Love on the Cavs.

they don't need to include Wiggins in any deal, just because Minnesota says so. Minnesota can lose Love in the offseason if he isn't traded for nothing. the Cavs don't need to use Wiggins to make salaries match.

Love would have been GONE if someone was THAT interested. with the money that went out for RFAs this offseason?

Cavs need more (elite) defense to win a title, and that's going to be harder to find with 3 dudes tied up in max salaries.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "It's the Showtime Lakers vs The Miami Heat Show"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

Showtime = Magic #1, Kareem MVP, Worthy #1. Great role players/deep bench.

They got like what 8 finals trips outta that? Extended Cap's career until he was 40. Won 5 rings

Heat = 3 legit stars, role players all around that fit. 4 yr run, one star aged out, one bailed and two had to dramatically change their game to make it work.

If the Cavs keep Wiggins, they can build a showtime and extend LeBron's career. If the get Love, they have a 2-3 yr window and limited flexibility. And most people don't think they'd win the title, just maybe the East.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
155. "also, the Heat Big 3 were all better defensively"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

than a Love/Kyrie/LeBron combo.

the reason the Heat could get away with the bigs they did was largely because of Bosh. Wade was a great defender. LeBron is LeBron.

so you could get "lesser dudes". Cavs have way more holes around them. that's gonna cost.

unless you're gonna gamble on LeBron being selfless about the salary, which really is about as believable as much as Peter Dinklage posterizing Dwight Howard about now.

that dude's taking Jordan deals for the rest of his career if he can manage it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
158. "yeah Miami's defense was actually built around Wade's shot blocking..."
In response to Reply # 155


          

ability...

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/14003/dwyane-wades-historic-block-party-rolls-on

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
161. "yea this is why the kyrie+love >>>>>> bosh+wade comments were strange"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

uh not if you watch both sides of the floor, lol
maybe '14 bosh and wade u could argue, though wade actually had a good season outside of the finals

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "agreed. pretty obvious imo"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

both roster plays should make cavs fans happy
one just costs more, applies pressure, and kills flexibility
not rocket science

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
166. "All facts."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
175. "they will suck on D... gotta get some goons..."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Ditch the paper, save the trees, and go mobile! Text bizcard to 32462!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
176. "Love is basically the no better than Barkley w/ the Rockets (96-97)"
In response to Reply # 146
Fri Jul-18-14 01:42 PM by FILF

  

          

He'll put up numbers but muphucka isn't going to swing the pendulum against elite competition b/c he's a one way player & doesn't draw double teams just like post-prime Chuck. Muphuckin' Dream couldn't even hide Chuck on defense....so I'm not so sure Sideshow Bob will make a difference.

If anything the Cavs w/ Love might turn into the 2004-04 Mavs when they had:

Dirk
Shimmy Walker
Jamison
Finley
Nash
.......all in their primes & got bounced in the 1st rd b/c they were a horrific defensive team. Let's not forget that the Spurs proved that Bath-Salts Bron by himself isn't going to win you more than a game against elite competition thus the Cavs w/ Love/Kyrie might not get bounced in the 1st rd ala the Mavs but I doubt they could compete w/ OKC/Clips/Mavs/Spurs/Bulls(w/ a healthy Rose).

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
180. "Didnt they go to the conf finals that year b/w Love is much younger"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

I see what you are getting at but this is a weak ass conference by comparison. Even getting an old Barkley (who I'd argue wasn't as good as Love right today) would benefit the Cavs tremendously. He doesn't put them over the top, but at the top. Their next moves will be what could put them over. I don't get the people hyping "Salary Flexibility" either. For what? To sign a UFA? UFAs are generally sorry, teams don't let healthy, productive, winning players walk. So they keep Wiggins and overpay some guy who is older and wacker than Love. Seems pointless.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
185. "Keep Wiggins & trade Waiters/Bennett/Tristan for Al Horford"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

>I see what you are getting at but this is a weak ass
>conference by comparison. Even getting an old Barkley (who I'd
>argue wasn't as good as Love right today) would benefit the
>Cavs tremendously. He doesn't put them over the top, but at
>the top. Their next moves will be what could put them over. I
>don't get the people hyping "Salary Flexibility" either. For
>what? To sign a UFA? UFAs are generally sorry, teams don't let
>healthy, productive, winning players walk. So they keep
>Wiggins and overpay some guy who is older and wacker than
>Love. Seems pointless.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
186. "If that is on the table, sure. Seems speculative at best though."
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
195. "There had been rumblings about Horford to the Cavs around the draft"
In response to Reply # 186
Fri Jul-18-14 03:05 PM by FILF

  

          

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2014/6/10/5798076/nba-trade-rumors-al-horford-atlanta-hawks

Buried inside Zach Lowe's well written piece on potential landing spots for Lance Stephenson today was a little nugget regarding Atlanta's Al Horford and Danny Ferry shopping him at the trade deadline last season. Lowe previously mentioned this rumor on a podcast with Bill Simmons:

"No one can figure these guys out, which means Danny Ferry is doing his thing. They have cap flexibility and a good roster, though they dangled Al Horford at last year's trade deadline in a very targeted fashion, per sources around the league."

Naturally people picked up on this and when combined with Chad Ford's recent rumor about the Cavs looking at Horford it sparked some discussion. However, I think it is important to look at Lowe's quote closely and put it in context because I saw it get twisted up in a couple of places around the internet.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 05:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
259. "I heard he had been shopped, but lots of players get shopped"
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

They were also thinking if they could get fair return and get it now for the playoffs probably. Who knows? Guys are getting shopped constantly and usually nothing comes of it. It's not personal unless it becomes very public, and it's usually not that serious. And if they do get Horford, what are they sending out? As with Hibbert, I feel like Wiggins is way too much to ship out, but they don't have any other real solid assets that I would take for my best or second best player if I am Ferry, Bird, et al.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
153. "Cavs gonna fuck around and end up like the Cavs during Bron's 1st stint"
In response to Reply # 0


          

You don't gotta listen to Bron and get who he wants to play with. Or try to make shortsighted moves and panic to win now. That's how you end up throwing money at/trading for/signing:
Larry Hughes
Mo Williams
Antawn Jamison
Wally Sczerbiak
Donyell Marshall
Ben Wallace
Drew Gooden

Bron ain't a GM or exec. Let him fall back and you build a team. Before you're locked into to some dumb shit.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
157. "This as well"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>That's how you end up throwing money at/trading for/signing:
>Larry Hughes
>Mo Williams
>Antawn Jamison
>Wally Sczerbiak
>Donyell Marshall
>Ben Wallace
>Drew Gooden
>
>Bron ain't a GM or exec. Let him fall back and you build a
>team. Before you're locked into to some dumb shit.

granted, the reason they do some of those deals is because of the bullshit Paxson did in that one year they sucked with him there. that 2004 offseason was some absolute shit for the future.

I'm not mad at the Tawn and Mo pick ups, but Larry Hughes is the ultimate symbol of "Bron wants, Bron gets, team sucks" moves.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
65616 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 06:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
219. "fair points, but let's not equate Larry Hughes to K. Love"
In response to Reply # 157


          

I'm continually bewildered by this community's attitude
towards Love, as if he has a communicable disease.

He's a proven commodity who helps Cleveland win not just right now,
but for a decade to come (which he'd likely do if Cleveland wins titles, which they should with a Kyrie/Love/Bron star trio).

Sure, it's understandable to not want to give up Wiggins, but if you
have to to get Love? I think you regret it if you don't. Big gamble to assume Wiggins becomes a perpetual all-star caliber player within 3 years.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Sat Jul-19-14 05:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
229. "None of those players were even remotely in the universe of Kevin Love"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

And you lost all credibility saying that team wouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals.

We can put anything on that you want once the deal gets done.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
154. "How long a deal would Love sign? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
160. "I don't think he'll play the 1 or 2 year game like Lebron, I think he..."
In response to Reply # 154


          

wants max money for max years now

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
162. "Just kinda funny to me, cuz if Bron does bounce"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

Love is back in Minnesota, but just a shittier, smellier, horribler version.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 10:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
263. "Bron ain't bouncing, he's just doing opt-outs for the next five years"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

After each season in order to hold Gilbert's feet to the fire and maximize his earning potential, he's also going to try to lead the charge to abolish max deals in the next CBA once they have the TV figures.

He's gonna want to get a couple of those salaries like MJ got late in his career after carrying the league for years and being relatively underpaid.

His intent is going to be staying in Cleveland, Love being there only will add to that.

And Lebron is not going to find a better second/third player tandem then Cleveland if they land Love.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
8564 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 12:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "Is there a plan B? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let's say flip goes after the warriors offer and Love re-signs. Then what? A lotta of eggs in this just get Kevin Love basket. Do they just go back to the bron, kyrie, and that maturation of the young guys?




----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
164. "Would you give a 32 year-old Lebron a $200+mil contract? (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/18/sheridan-structure-of-lebrons-new-contract-empowers-him-as-king-of-the-cavs/

Sheridan: Structure of LeBron’s New Contract Empowers him as King of the Cavs

July 18, 2014 by Chris Sheridan

LeBron James can play the rest of his career on the equivalent of one-year contracts. It has exposed a loophole of sorts in the CBA while making him the most powerful man in the NBA.

Nobody saw this coming, but when James signed a two-year deal with Cleveland and had an opt-out included after Year One, the entire power structure of the NBA changed. If the Cavs don’t keep him happy, he’ll leave — that is the implication that goes along with having the best player in the game so uniquely empowered under the structure of his new deal.

Two years from now, when James becomes an unrestricted free agent again, he’ll be able to reap the financial rewards of signing after the NBA’s new television deals are cut. If the money paid by ESPN, Turner Sports and Fox Sports (yes, they NBA could have three TV partners instead of the current two, following the trail blazed by the NFL) is double what is being paid under the current deal, the salary cap will rise accordingly.

If, for argument’s sake, if the salary cap rises to $100 million, James would be eligible for a new contract with a maximum salary of 35 percent of the cap. With 7.5 percent annual raises, James would be eligible for a new five-year contract with salaries of $35 million in Year 1, then $37,626,000, $40,250,000, $42,875,000, $47,550,000.

That adds up to $201.5 million.

Or, he could keep doing two-year contracts with one-year opt outs. That would imperil his ability to lock up a nine-figure deal, but it would keep his empowerment structure in place.

You thought the Decision II brought some finality to James’ moving van options? Wrong. We haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of what James can do by being empowered with a player option after Year One of his next deal … and the deal that comes after that … and the one after that. With a player option. If he declines to exercise that option, he immediately would become an unrestricted free agent. It is a heavy hammer to hold, an enormous position of power that would give James the ability to influence each and every roster decision the Cavs make for the next four years. (Under CBA rules, if James signed a five-year deal he could not have a player option or an Early Termination Option until after the fourth year. A series of two-year contracts would keep him empowered the way he is now).

The Cavs’ evolving stance on the availability of Andrew Wiggins in a potential Kevin Love trade is just the beginning.

Clearly, James is trying to influence Cleveland’s decision making.

Imaginary conversation between LeBron and Dan Gilbert:

LBJ: “I want Kevin Love.”
DG: “We can’t get him, because the Timberwolves want Andrew Wiggins.”
LBJ: “Then give them Wiggins.”
DG: “But Wiggins is 19 and could become the best player in the league down the road.”
LBJ: “When exactly?”
DG: “It might only take four or five years.”
LBJ: “You don’t have four or five years. If you don’t make this trade, I’ll walk next summer. The Knicks and Lakers will both have enough cap space for a max contract. You want me to walk?”
DG: “No.”
LBJ: “Then make the damn trade.”

What might a Wiggins-for-Love trade look like?

Love makes $15.72 million in the upcoming season, and Wiggins will eventually sign for $5.5 million. So the salaries do not come close to matching, but the Cavs and Wolves could get a third team to broker the trade so that other players would not have to be included. Philadelphia is the most logical broker because the Sixers have only $28 million in committed salaries for next season, giving them a whopping $35 million in cap room.

The Cavs could conceivably offer Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and three No. 1 draft picks in 2015 (their own, Memphis’ No. 1 and Miami’s No. 1) for Love.

Flip Saunders would be able to turn to his owner and his fan base and say he got five No. 1 picks, including the top overall picks from 2013 and 2014. Dan Gilbert could turn to his fan base and explain that he made a deal that will allow the Cavs to immediately compete for a title with a starting five of James, Love, Kyrie Irving, Anderson Varejao and Dion Waiters.

LeBron would be placated — and a placated King is a happy King.

And one year from now, LeBron could again go to Gilbert and make whatever roster demands he wished.

Gilbert would have no choice but to comply, because Gilbert would not be the most powerful member of the Cleveland Cavaliers organization.

That title would belong to King James, who already is wielding his power.


Read more at http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/18/sheridan-structure-of-lebrons-new-contract-empowers-him-as-king-of-the-cavs/#rUGvb5S5axPfIRlv.99

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
168. "damn so the he's not going anywhere he's just waiting for the new tv"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

contracts narrative lasted all of a week?
bwhahahahaha
like i said in that other thread...uh guys there is a 1 yr player option on that thang
bron want that flexibility
i like that he has gilbert by the balls, essentially running the franchise at this point
but he can't get carried away with his yes men cosigning every lil idea he has

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
172. "Him leaving again would be such a PR disaster though"
In response to Reply # 168
Fri Jul-18-14 01:27 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

I mean barring Gilbert making Lebron run with a squad of guys from the local Y (minus the Marine, of course), him skipping town again would be a PR mess.

Dude is all about legacy at this point. He knows won't catch Jordan on the 6 for 6, perfect in the Finals thing. He has an outside shot of catching up on total ring count, but he also knows he already has two disastrous Finals under his belt (I don't think most people hold his first Cavs Finals apperance against him). His chance for a legacy is to be that local boy who made good and brought a title to Ohio finally. What, is he gonna skip town at the first sign of adversity again? I mean the one year deal thing does give him a ton of leverage with the franchise but they have to have some foresight here.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
174. "and it could definitely happen. "
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

we dont know that any changes to the salary structure would benefit him that much more staying than leaving. he wanted the flexibility for a variety of reasons.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
196. "He blows out his knee in the next 2 seasons and he's done"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

All his leverage will go out the door and he won't have the security of a long term deal. And it'll compromise him being able to command top dollar on that TV deal. The deal should have been 4 years with a player option after yr 2. Granted he's rich and doesn't NEED the dough but he's short sighted as a player. An org has to look at now AND the future.

Bron loses ANYTHING skill wise in the next 2-3 seasons and Love ain't picking up the slack accept on scoring and he'll be nearing 30.

Wiggins + Kyrie could carry a 'lesser' Brom in 3-4 seasons on both sides of the ball.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 08:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
244. "That's true of any contract for any player at any age. So, moot."
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
169. "Minny AP writer: neither Wiggins nor Klay have yet been offered for Love..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No official offer including either presently exists.

@APkrawczynski: Andrew Wiggins has not been offered for Kevin Love. Klay Thompson has not been offered for Kevin Love. This is where things stand.

@APkrawczynski: Talking to execs out here in Vegas, almost universal that IF wolves get Wiggins for Love that is as good a deal as they could make

@APkrawczynski: Wiggins is still a possibility if LeBron tells the Cavs "Get me Love." What LeBron wants, LeBron gets. That's what Wolves are counting on.

@APkrawczynski: @TyTyBuckets the only thing that matters is there is no offer. If there's no offer, there can be no deal

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
173. "seems reasonable to me, doesnt really support either side of argument"
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
178. "I'm feeling over arguing about it. I just want it to happen."
In response to Reply # 173
Fri Jul-18-14 01:36 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Either to Cleveland or Golden State. Or wherever. Just end the speculation.

At the end of the day, there's no definitive way to prove a team would be better off one way or the other when it's all said and done-- even if titles happen. So I just want it to be over at this point, lol.

This is just me being an old fart though, probably.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
188. "yeah i mean i dont think there is any urgency for either team"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

the season is months away and love is under contract. sooner than later, sure, but not immediately.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
181. "ProBBallDraft reporting the Wolves are content to wait."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

@Probballdraft: Everyone acting like a deal for Love is imminent should pump the brakes. Wolves waiting, not rushing. Hopeful he reconsiders staying.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
183. "man cavs bout to give up wiggins, dion, bennett and some 1sts"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

flip saunders jedi mind tricking this whole thing

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
184. "There are also reports they want Klay more than Wiggins."
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

Because Flip wants to win now and thinks Klay is more ready to lead a win now team.

Hard to tell what is and what isn't a smokescreen.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
187. "That makes sense, I mean Klay is a pretty nasty player"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

Can shoot and defend, plus we have seen him a little subdued due to being in development and not being the No. 1 option in GS.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 02:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
192. "back up. let's not try being friends on klay, fence-sitter. "
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

i'm back, remember? he mine.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
237. "eat a dick, thanks"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 07:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
223. "shit, I'd take Klay on the Cavs"
In response to Reply # 184
Fri Jul-18-14 07:00 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

and by all rights, they should have had him. The one time Chris Grant doesn't Chris Grant.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
189. "it's chicken and the wolves are pretty sure they're going to crash regar..."
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 01:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
190. "like I said, they have until the trade deadline, no urgency for them..."
In response to Reply # 181


          

Wiggins isn't going anywhere.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
198. "Could hurt minny though"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

If they start the season together and Wiggins balls out and Bron takes a liking to him, Wolves are done. Lose all leverage (though the only thing they have is the Warriors offer as that). G-State would win as they could get Love minus Klay. But I'm sure other teams will eventually offer up something good too so it could work out for both teams.

Personally, I think the Cavs have to at least see the team in action.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
200. "as long as Love is healthy, putting up numbers and white, there will be...."
In response to Reply # 198


          

a market for him.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
197. "Now ESPN...."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-18-14 03:28 PM by murph71

          


Is saying that the Cavs have made an official offer.....Wiggins, Bennett and a 2015 pick...

That sounds more reasonable than giving up 3 quality players AND a draft pick....

Anyway you look at it, shit is about to get interesting....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
201. "espn.....or chris broussard?"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
202. "RE: espn.....or chris broussard?"
In response to Reply # 201


          



Don't matter at this point....With Broussard it could go either way...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
203. "Isn't Bennett basically supposed to be K-Love lite?"
In response to Reply # 197


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
206. "Nah, he was supposed to be "Better than LJ EVER was!""
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
209. "Oh yeah, that too, lol"
In response to Reply # 206


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 04:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
207. "I'd do it*"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

*Assuming Love is ALL the Wolves are giving up in the deal

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
208. "NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IN CLEVELAND INCLUDING KLOVE."
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

I'm tweeting KLove telling him to avoid Cleveland at all costs. He seems like a great fit with Bay Area culture.

Dan Gilbert needs to step in and veto the deal. This team is built to run and that is the exact opposite of what Kevin Love forces us to do. What if the cap only goes up by five million in the future? You can't have three players on max deals and expect to field a competitive team.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
211. "lol if the reason you dont want Love is because you want to run"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

>I'm tweeting KLove telling him to avoid Cleveland at all
>costs. He seems like a great fit with Bay Area culture.
>
>Dan Gilbert needs to step in and veto the deal. This team is
>built to run and that is the exact opposite of what Kevin Love
>forces us to do. What if the cap only goes up by five million
>in the future? You can't have three players on max deals and
>expect to field a competitive team.



You know nothing about Kevin Love

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
215. "I don't want him because he'll cost too much and is a bad teammate"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

Dion will hook on him the first time he mentions his name in a press conference. I can't give up Wiggins in any deal.

KLove should tank this deal by coming out and naming the cities he'll play in. I want KLove to go on a tour of the yay area. SAVE YOURSELF KEVIN LOVE.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
34879 posts
Fri Jul-18-14 05:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
213. "the cap is an interesting point. "
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

What if the cap only goes up by five million
>in the future? You can't have three players on max deals and
>expect to field a competitive team.

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 12:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
236. "Worry about that when the time comes."
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

If Wiggins is the real deal, it won't be long after that bump that he needs a max deal, too. LeBron has shown some willingness to sacrifice in the past and if not, oh well, make the Harden type trade then when you're forced to. The organization also showed a willingness to have a high payroll in Bron's first stint. I don't see that being a compelling argument, you're talking about essentially inane speculation about a couple years down the line versus going all in right today.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
234. "LOL, running teams love guys like Love and Duncan you dunce"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

Just because they don't run the floor like the Mailman or a young Amare doesn't mean they don't key the break. Bill Walton, Wes Unseld, Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, these are all relatively slow/stiff players for the fast break but their teams often ran like hell. Why? Rebounding and outlet passing.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
muzuabo
Member since Dec 03rd 2009
2064 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 02:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
254. "This guy just can't help him self."
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

Every time he opens his mouth it is an instant L.

______________________________
PSN ID - muzuabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/muz_e/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 06:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
261. "I'm always right...."
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

... Especially against trolls.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 06:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
260. "Duncan plays defense therefore your point is moot."
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 05:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
273. "the part that gets the break going is defensive rebounding"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

love does tons of it.

face it, you got caught lacking some basic knowledge. i love the "i am always right" response. as if anyone is, but it's particularly comical coming from you. perhaps you calculated the 100 percentage by using Quick Math?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Sat Jul-19-14 12:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
227. "I kinda liked the idea of Lebron mentoring those young guys..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-19-14 12:10 AM by BlassFemur

  

          

not trading them away. I think it would be good for the league and I think they'll still be extremley successful without Love. I don't see why they don't give it a minute, for fucks sake.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
230. "my two cents"
In response to Reply # 0


          

wiggins should not sign his name on that contract. he should release a statement via the press that while everyone is looking out for their interests no one is looking out for him. he should also add that he wants to go somewhere with a strong corp structure and basketball system in order to develop his skills as a basketball player. he should then list teams that he would be willing to sign with, chicago, detroit, philly, boston, charlotte, atlanta, n.o., okc, san an, dallas, golden state, portland, miami, oops almost forgot tdot. he should also add that he is no longer interested in playing with cleveland and that he would not sign with them. he should then add if or until that happens he'd be in europe looking to negotiate a three year deal (with no early outs) and will return when he is off the rookie pay scale, ala mitotic. then he should add a deadline whatever it would be for him to sign and begin working with a eurpean team.

but that is just me. he could play in europe work on his j and playing in a system.

i usually dislike people who overturn the draft, kobe, elway, eli, steve francis.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 09:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
231. "could work if he hadn't already signed with adidas, sony, etc."
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

no

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 10:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
232. "i'd offer them an"
In response to Reply # 231


          

opportunity to renegotiate their deals or drop me (that would be in the letter as well, kinda forcing their hands as well as giving them options), europe is a good market and he would be the first NBA number pick to do it. i am sure their would be enough press. he wouldn't be going to some hole in the wall team. he should go somewhere with former nab players or known for developing players for the nba. another reason for the 3 year contract show a euro club you won't just up and leave when the nba came knocking.

adidas is a european company anyway. he'd be 22.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 11:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
249. "Nothing smarter than asking major sponsors to drop you!"
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
297. "you are a fool. bye."
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 12:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
235. "you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 01:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
238. "RE: you sound hurt. he will play it smarter than that"
In response to Reply # 235
Sun Jul-20-14 01:49 PM by loveluv

          

so what would be smarter? i should add he should wait till the "rumors" firmed up and send somebody in to the cleveland organization and let them know what his position is, before going to the press.

the organization is dysfunctional in a way that no 19 year old is going to fix. why not take control of the situation? it is logical. everybody is looking out for self. wiggins needs to do the same. why should he sit by while lebron james, gilbert, Klove, flip and whoever else decides the next 4-6 years for him? he did that once with the draft. should he really have to go through that again? he is also in a unique position, he has leverage. should he give up what little power he has? lebron did it why shouldn't he?

ion't know but i probably would want someone on my team/in my circle to at least raise my proposal. or else i need to find a new agent cause he/she is already sleeping on the J-O-B.

can his agent get on the horn and call up teams to see if it could go down? he isn't signed to the cavs, so would it be tampering? he should be. shoot other GMs should get on the horn, and "tell him don't sign that, we got you lets try and make it happen."

i know if i was a GM i woulda contacted silver and been like "he ain't signed can i contact him, bout something?" or i would get one of my players to reach out to him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 05:32 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
241. "he holds no cards and would look really bad doing that as a rookie."
In response to Reply # 238


  

          


>can his agent get on the horn and call up teams to see if it
>could go down?

>i know if i was a GM i woulda contacted silver and been like
>"he ain't signed can i contact him, bout something?" or i
>would get one of my players to reach out to him.

there's no way either of these things is allowed.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 05:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
240. "Everything after the first sentence is LOUD AND WRONG."
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

>wiggins should not sign his name on that contract. he should
>release a statement via the press that while everyone is
>looking out for their interests no one is looking out for him.
> he should also add that he wants to go somewhere with a
>strong corp structure and basketball system in order to
>develop his skills as a basketball player. he should then list
>teams that he would be willing to sign with, chicago, detroit,
>philly, boston, charlotte, atlanta, n.o., okc, san an, dallas,
>golden state, portland, miami, oops almost forgot tdot. he
>should also add that he is no longer interested in playing
>with cleveland and that he would not sign with them. he should
>then add if or until that happens he'd be in europe looking to
>negotiate a three year deal (with no early outs) and will
>return when he is off the rookie pay scale, ala mitotic. then
>he should add a deadline whatever it would be for him to sign
>and begin working with a eurpean team.
>
>but that is just me. he could play in europe work on his j and
>playing in a system.
>
>i usually dislike people who overturn the draft, kobe, elway,
>eli, steve francis.

I agree that he shouldn't sign his name on the contract. Do NBA players get paid in the preseason? I'd play sparingly in preseason games if that's the case. There's no rush for him to sign his contract. Let KLove come into Wolves camp and hope GSW gets anxious to trade. He's in a far better situation staying in Cleveland than going to Minnesota where there is a logjam at his position.

You're talking like Wiggins is Lebron right now. Lebron could pull that move. We'll see but the general consensus is he needs development time. Bron been ready since his first preseason game.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Sun Jul-20-14 09:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
243. "exactly he"
In response to Reply # 240


          

needs development. are the timberwolves the team that is going to get that done?

far as him not having the leverage why doesn't he? he is the number one pick? kobe wasn't nor was he ready straight out the gate. elway and eli were number one, and steve francis was two. i believe it worked out pretty well for those guys on the p.r. level and for their careers well cept stevie.

"p.r. wise" i think this is different than pouting about the draft. i think we can all agree he is getting dicked in this situation, right? i don't think it would come to him leaving anyway. he'd just be forcing a three way to deal to be made. i don't think he could play for cleveland if it came to that though, but why should that be high on his priority.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 09:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
245. "I remember a couple of years ago OKS was hyping an article about..."
In response to Reply # 230


          

professional leagues in places like Russia and others had all this major bread and were going to start luring NBA stars over because they could go beyond the NBA salary cap and rules but it ended up only being a couple of mediocre level players like Josh Childress and that theory quickly died but it would be interesting if a dude like Wiggins said "fuck it, I'm going overseas"

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
344. "IMO that shit is dead, no one has made it work yet"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

There is just enough money in those leagues to be dishing out the big dollars. Even Childress's sweetheart deal ended prematurely.

It's more of a threat in the NHL, and even then there is only one league that can pay the money. They have and will continue to have a lo of difficulty attracting players, though they have gotten some notable ones (Jagr previously, currently Kovalchuk and Radulov).

I don't see foreign leagues seriously threatening the NBA or MLB, and really not even the NHL.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
247. "It's basically instant gratification vs. gambling for long term success"
In response to Reply # 0


          

With the gamble being at $5 milly still giving you TONS of wiggin room.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

SsenepoD
Member since Nov 13th 2007
4331 posts
Mon Jul-21-14 10:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
248. "RE: Should Cleveland trade Wiggins for Love?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the scoring will drop, & his defense isn't as good as Bosh's (even though Bosh improved tremendously in Miami, I don't think Love has it in him to get beyond decent, which would be a big upgrade) BUT on offense he'd be a better version of Bosh.

he's a much better 3 point shooter & a great rebounded. If Love just focused on getting boards & shooting 10 3s a game, he'd get up to 20/15 easy

___________________________
He has the confidence of Vernon Maxwell on a yayo binge.

http://www.2amDonuts.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 01:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
264. "Bulls making a strong push by offering Taj and Jimmy Butler"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/22/report-bulls-making-push-to-trade-for-kevin-love/

Their offer is better than the Cleveland offer. If they toss in a pick that should get the deal done. It's about time the Bulls swung for the fences.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 02:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
265. "They are making a push."
In response to Reply # 264


  

          

The word "strong" is thrown around too loosely these days.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 02:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
266. "It's better than the 'monster push' tag placed on the Lakers "
In response to Reply # 265


  

          

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 04:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
271. "Haha"
In response to Reply # 266


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 04:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
268. "On what planet is that a better offer?"
In response to Reply # 264


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 04:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
269. "casm."
In response to Reply # 268


  

          

he's an anti wiggins-for-love cavs fan.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 04:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
270. "Because. "
In response to Reply # 268


  

          

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 05:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
274. "*Breaks this down*"
In response to Reply # 268


  

          

Jimmy Butler is a solid star/star-in-the-making who, given the minutes, can blossom into an all-star. You see dem 'tangibles?

Taj Gibson brings defense and playoff experience. All Chicago has to toss in is a draft pick and this should seal the deal.

That is a far better than offer than fat fuck Dion, Bennett's allegedly bust ass, and Wiggins. We don't know how good Wiggins is. He could tear his achilles and never reach star status. Those Bulls players can win now versus the development time the Cavs players need. Wolves don't need prep time they need room to operate and win.

Of course, Golden State deads all of this by offering Klay LIKE THEY SHOULD'VE DONE IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 10:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
285. "nobody want Jimmy Butler Mobile, AL mechanic YMCA game ass"
In response to Reply # 274


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
527. "*sips tea*"
In response to Reply # 285


          

_______________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 10:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
284. "This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels"
In response to Reply # 264


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
292. "At least Tyrus was a top pick."
In response to Reply # 284


  

          

So they could always fall back on "he has the *potential* though."

Taj doesn't even have that. He is what he is: a fine basketball player.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
300. "And he 30. "
In response to Reply # 292


  

          

This is actually more Hinrich cysage than Tyrus. They thought Hinrich was a beast and was on the way up...he was 27 and maxed out.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:19 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
309. "RE: This Taj cyse is reaching Tyrusian levels"
In response to Reply # 284


          



Tell that to Minny, homie...They are the team that has been calling about Taj/Butler, ect...

You been riding this kid for the longest...lol....But he continues to improve his game and fell short of that sixth man award...Nobody is calling this kid a superstar.

And I'm willing to bet that any package would be more than just Taj and Butler...

Ya dig?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
324. "Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph ."
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

Taj was near maxed out coming into the league.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:54 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
340. "RE: Taj is 30. He ain't no fuckin kid, Murph ."
In response to Reply # 324


          

>Taj was near maxed out coming into the league.


Whether he's a kid or an old man he played well...Very well actually. I've been on record many times, though. If Minny wanted to make that deal I would drive Taj to the airport myself....

But my point stands. Minny was calling the Bulls about Taj before the Splash Brother/Wiggins talk started to pop off...They must have had some kind of interest in the "kid"....

But it's all moot. Love is going to the Cavs..Bron will get his superstar big....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 07:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
358. "no one wants taj but y'all. "
In response to Reply # 340


  

          

you gonna get all the taj you want this season. and i'll be here smiling.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 08:22 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
363. "RE: no one wants taj but y'all. "
In response to Reply # 358


          

>you gonna get all the taj you want this season. and i'll be
>here smiling.


Was u smiling when he was a sixth man finalist after shitting on dude like he stole your porn stash?

And really U r mixing your apples with oranges. I may be of the minority amongst Bulls fan who would pull the trigger on a deal involving Taj, Mirotic, and McBuckets. There's no over-valuing of Taj, at least when it comes to me.

He's a strong defensive minded big who can give u some scoring on any given night. Nothing more, nothing less....







GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 09:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
367. "6th man of the year FINALIST?"
In response to Reply # 363


  

          

dogg, all i said was 8 and 5 wasn't worth no damn 10 a year. he earned that contract after putting up 8 and 5. and 13 and 7 ain't worth 10 a year either.

and he 30. enjoy.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 05:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
361. "Dawg, it might be the craziest Bull Fan distortion of reality yet"
In response to Reply # 284


  

          

Wilbon on PTI talking like Taj & McBuckets for Love is too rich for his blood.

I can't with these people.

Taj couldn't get picked out a lineup walking down Figueroa even tho he went to college at USC, ask some of these Bull Fans & they'll act like Taj Gibson gets more love in Chicago than Kanye West.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 08:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
362. "If only it was that simple...."
In response to Reply # 361
Thu Jul-24-14 08:10 AM by murph71

          

>Wilbon on PTI talking like Taj & McBuckets for Love is too
>rich for his blood.
>
>I can't with these people.
>
>Taj couldn't get picked out a lineup walking down Figueroa
>even tho he went to college at USC, ask some of these Bull
>Fans & they'll act like Taj Gibson gets more love in Chicago
>than Kanye West.

I get the jokey one-liners and all, Bomb...But I think such reservations come from the Bulls having a strong defensive identity. SOME fans are spooked that getting Love AND giving up a Taj/Butler, ect would create a swizz cheese defense and drive Thibs insane...lol...It's less about over-valuing players and more about putting together the right package to ensure that we stay strong on D...

But of course I've been on record as saying that I would give up Taj, McBuckets, and Mirotic (that's the Bulls' trade proposal that's being thrown out there...) without a second thought...I would help all three pack their bags...lol...Of course I'm of the minority on that thinking on this board...


But this of course is all moot. Because we all know Bron is going to get his gift...Love to the Cavs is happening.

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
nighttripper
Charter member
17453 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 09:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
366. "you keep repeating this:"
In response to Reply # 362


  

          

>lol...Of
>course I'm of the minority on that thinking on this board...
>

but in actuality, only two Bulls fans on these boards disagreed with you so far, as I recall

others just don't feel like they need to have an opinion one way or the other because of this:
>
>But this of course is all moot. Because we all know Bron is
>going to get his gift...Love to the Cavs is happening.

like multiple folks (including you) already pointed out, these rumors are just that, rumors, leaked by either Bulls' or Wolves' FOs to try and force Cleveland into giving up Wiggins. so there's really no point in wasting time figuring out if you like the trade or not as a Bulls supporter.

but just for shits and giggles...to me that trade would've made a lot more sense before the Bulls got Gasol and amnestied Boozer. at this point, it seems like it would leave us with a somewhat awkward roster (not to mention that the Bulls could offer a more attractive package back then). however, I still think I'd do it if it was a real possibility.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Sun Jul-27-14 11:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
370. "That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove trade"
In response to Reply # 362


  

          

So I won't even bother getting into all the defensive identity stuff for a team that's never been anywhere or won anything.

Taj Gibson is 29 & coming off his first year scoring over like 8 points and 6 boards in a damn season, please FOH with this silliness.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Jul-28-14 07:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
371. "RE: That package, quite simply, is garbage not worthy of a legit KLove t..."
In response to Reply # 370


          

>So I won't even bother getting into all the defensive
>identity stuff for a team that's never been anywhere or won
>anything.
>
>Taj Gibson is 29 & coming off his first year scoring over like
>8 points and 6 boards in a damn season, please FOH with this
>silliness.

Again...your snark is misplaced, homie...lol

It's not like Gibson was deemed the centerpiece of that package...Gibson, Mirotic, D. McBuckets, draft picks..That's what the Bulls was officially offering...

I don't see that package any worse than what Cavs are offering....

That other deal with Jimmy Butler was among the names that Minny were acquiring about...

But Love wants to play with Bron....So that's going to happen...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 09:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
368. "I'm starting to think every fanbase has a player they overcyse"
In response to Reply # 361


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Sun Jul-27-14 11:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
369. "Bulls Fans seem to have four or five annually tho"
In response to Reply # 368


  

          

>

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4342 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
290. "Bulls making the smart move, forcing CLE to give up more"
In response to Reply # 264


  

          

Jacking up the market of a division rivals trade is exactly what you want to do in this situation

CLE can't tell if Chi is bluffing, etc. and GarPax can ride this shit show as much as you want to Cleveland.

Try us fuckers.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 08:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
281. "can we just talk re: the "value" of defensive boards?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yes, I'm looking at you, Concrete Chuck.

Having good individual rebounds numbers DOES NOT make you a "valuable" defensive player on the glass. It just makes you good at ball hawking. You know has had consistently good rebound numbers, but has always sucked ass? JJ Hickson. JJ Hickson is an extremely minus defensive player, just sucks. It doesn't matter what it says in the boxscore, he's a turnstile, he doesn't protect the rim, and all he really does is take the ball away from his teammates. He offers NEGATIVE value on the defensive end, it doesn't matter what his individual rebound stat is. It's no coincidence that the Trailblazers got immediately better (by quite a bit) when they replaced JJ Hickson with Robin Lopez, despite the fact that Robin Lopez offered less in the way of points and rebounds than JJ Hickson.

The thing is, there's only a certain number of rebounds to go around. This is the whole Shane Battier thing -- even if his rebound numbers suck, team rebounding goes up while he's in the game, so doesn't that make him a good rebounder? It's not just about securing the ball, it's about boxing your guy out. It's also, not coincidentally at all, why LaMarcus Aldridge just posted a career high in rebounds playing alongside Robin Lopez instead of JJ Hickson. LaMarcus didn't suddenly transform over the summer, he just got an unselfish teammate that was willing to box out while LA grabbed the ball.

All that to say -- the idea that Kevin Love somehow shores up the defensive end because his individual rebounding #s are good is asinine (never mind that rebounds only occur when you force a miss, which Kevin Love is below average at). Kevin Love is a strong individual rebounder, sure, but that doesn't give you a distinct advantage on that end. You still need other guys responsible in boxing out alongside him, and you still need a team defense in front of him that forces the miss.

And after all that, the REAL strength of Love's rebounding is that he's good (well, great, really) at ball-hawking, and then he's a great outlet passer, which would be an OFFENSIVE benefit because it would allow Cleveland to break. Of course, Wiggins could be a big benefit in this regard as well, but the if you want to paint Love's boards as a positive I would focus on the offensive impact on it, not the negligible to non-existent "defensive" impact of being able to eat glass.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 10:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
283. "PREACH ON, PREACHER!! (/>_<)/"
In response to Reply # 281


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Tue Jul-22-14 11:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
289. "That sums it up."
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
291. "Not a soul will argue the D improves with Love instead of Wiggins."
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

Because it can't be argued. It wouldn't.

The argument seems to be that the offense would be so overpowering that finding defensive pieces later would get the job satisfactorily done. Love rebounds, outlet to Bron/Ky, quick buckets. Often. That seems to be the central argument-- three incredibly gifted offensive players should be able to trump whatever other teams throw at them.

I can't imagine any arguments that the team D improves with Love. It's got nowhere to go but up from last year, so maybe that's an argument-- but no one would argue that a team with Love on the floor is better defensively than one with Wiggins on the floor. It's an indefensible position, and it seems like an irrelevant position to the argument the pro-Love collective is making.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
305. "That's the thing, Love isn't a great offensive player, he's a good..."
In response to Reply # 291
Wed Jul-23-14 11:01 AM by ThaTruth

          

offensive player that takes a lot of shot on a losing team. On a winning team where he's probably the 3rd option taking a lot less shots, scoring less points and still being a defensive liability, is he really that valuable?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
303. "^^^REAL TALK"
In response to Reply # 281


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
319. "The TWolves have basically been an average DRebounding team w/Love"
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

It could be that Love raises them from awful to just average on that end, but the three seasons Love has been a full time starter and not hurt (2011, 2012, 2014), the Timberwolves have ranked 16th all 3 years in Defensive Rebound Rate. Definitely supports the rebound stealer theory over him making them significantly better than the competition at defensive rebounding.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
349. "The Pistons werent tops w/Ben Wallace, but then they got Rasheed"
In response to Reply # 319


  

          

Is the argument here that a great rebounder should make his teammates better rebounders? That is a fresh one.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 06:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
354. "the argument is personal rebound #s tell you very little about reboundin..."
In response to Reply # 349


  

          

LaMarcus Aldridge was exactly as good of a rebounder in 2014 as he was in 2013, but his rebounding numbers jumped to a career high, improving upon his career average by something like 4+ rebounds per game. Yeah, sure, you could try to say he somehow transformed in the summer, but the truth is simply Robin Lopez joined the team. I even saw a reporter ask LA (in a post-game interview or something) what changed, why the big jump in rebounding, and without hesitation LA replied, "Robin Lopez." LA wouldn't give himself credit in any way, because he's an unselfish player who recognizes his teammates are just as key to his success as anything else.

So with regards to Love, the fact that he individually has good #s is largely meaningless. Like I said, you can argue offensive impact. It's definitely meaningful there. But as far as defensive impact goes, individual rebound #s tells you basically nothing.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
347. "Nice dissertation, I just have one question ..."
In response to Reply # 281
Wed Jul-23-14 05:10 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

does Love's rebounding--both defensive and offensive--make him an asset to your team? Does it get you more possessions? I guess that was two questions.

You are describing him as some Dirk or Carmelo Anthony like rebounder, a guy who sags and drifts. That is not his game, sorry.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
348. "Nice dissertation, I just have one question ..."
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

does Love's rebounding--both defensive and offensive--make him an asset to your team? Does it get you more possessions?

You are describing him as some Dirk or Carmelo Anthony like rebounder, a guy who sags and drifts. That is not his game, sorry.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 06:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
356. "Love's rebs have offensive impact, totally unclear re: extra possessions"
In response to Reply # 348


  

          

Love's a strong offensive player, that's not being debated. His ability to secure the ball and outlet is good for a transition offense (which should be a strength of this Cleveland roster). His positioning and strength also makes him a nuisance on the offensive glass. He will definitely expose weak defensive rebounding teams, which is a strong part of his offensive game.

But defensively? He's slow and lacks verticality. He is a soft spot in his team's defensive scheme. His personal ability to secure the glass in case of a miss does nothing to make up for that, and his high individual # in no way indicates he would make Cleveland a superior rebounding team with his presence alone. Again, the JJ Hickson example -- JJ has strong rebounding #s, but JJ also sucks and makes any team he's on worse. JJ's rebounding #s represent nothing but his determination to grab loose balls to fill out his box score. It doesn't matter what his average is, he hurts his team on the defensive end.

i.e. individual rebound #s tell us very little (or more accurately "nothing" or "completely mislead) about the value of a player on the defensive end.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

woodsen2
Member since Jan 14th 2003
996 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
293. "What if this was a 25 year old Dirk?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like you can get as many guys not named LeBron and Kyrie as you want. The trade would get done overnight. No one would question it.

Now Dirk's a better overall player than Love, but still a stretch 4 who is a knockdown shooter who isn't known for playing much defense (Dirk got better defensively later in his career) and doesn't protect the rim. Love is a better rebounder and passer, while Dirk gets the nod on offense and on-ball defense.

Love is a superstar and makes the Cavs better than they are with Wiggins and the rest of the guys being offered or with anybody the Cavs could get for those guys.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 02:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
294. "dirk had been to the playoffs many times"
In response to Reply # 293
Wed Jul-23-14 02:40 AM by rob

  

          

doing things like 1) winning first round series consistently 2) dropping damn near 40/20 on prime tim/fading admiral in an elimination game 3) sweeping prime k.g. 4) making the western conference finals. teams like the kings and spurs bested him, not teams like the suns and nuggets.

let's not get it twisted...the only knock on dirk was people didn't believe he had it in him to carry a team to a title. and we hated on him HARD for just that one question. but he and his team made adjustments and answered that *one* question. even if it did take him going absolutely bonkers and an opponent's collapse to get there.

the questions with love are a lot more numerous.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
296. "So? He also had two all-stars and depth on his team"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

Do you think Love would have magically missed the playoffs with a prime Finley and entering-his-prime Nash?

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 02:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
342. "like i said, it's an open question. seems like dirk wouldn't have NEVER"
In response to Reply # 296
Wed Jul-23-14 02:32 PM by rob

  

          

made the playoffs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
346. "with pekovic and ricky rubio? in this west?"
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
350. "not once? dirk go from every year second round+ to never?"
In response to Reply # 346


  

          

shit put kevin love with them 809 year olds and monta this year and he probably woulda fucked it up.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
308. "when Dirk was 25 the #1 overall pick in the draft was Lebron James..."
In response to Reply # 293


          

the MVP that year was Tim Duncan, who was only 26 at the time but say he was 30. Do you trade unproven 18 year-old Lebron for prime Dirk to play with Duncan?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
313. "To be fair, Dirk + Duncan would be fun as hell to watch"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          

But 18 year old Lebron to 19 year old Wiggins isn't a fair comparison either, Lebron tops out in the MJ/Magic range with a much higher floor while Wiggins tops out at Paul George/Pippen with a bigger bust factor. I do think Dirk is a far better player in his prime than Love though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
333. "Andrew Wiggins is not in the same universe as a prospect"
In response to Reply # 308


  

          

As LeBron or Tim Duncan.

Why didn't you ask about Shaq or Wilt Chamberlain for chrissakes?

Wiggins is definitely the next level down. He is not Kenyon Martin either, but he's not close to the same level of untouchable as an every-ten-years kind of guy. MAYBE he will be on a level with an every-five-years type, like Chris Webber.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 02:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
341. "and Dirk is a much better player than Love, and while people though..."
In response to Reply # 333


          

Lebron would be good but not many people thought he was 4+MVP good although most people will probably say different now.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 05:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
345. "LOL, what? LeBron was the most touted prospect in a long time"
In response to Reply # 341


  

          

Outside of maybe Duncan and Shaq, probably the most touted in the last 25 years.

I do think Dirk was better than Love, but relative to the best at their position at the time, they are at least comparable if not equivalent.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
317. "Prime Dirk was a far better player than Love"
In response to Reply # 293


  

          

Dude put up a 50/40/90 season and came damn close to it two more times when his best teammates were guys like Jason Terry and Josh Howard. Not scrubs but not exactly the Big 3 either. Dirk is one of the most efficient offensive players of all time while being a #1 option his whole career without a ton of offensive help (besides young Nash but Dirk's best years came after anyway).... I know he gets some hate on here but that's just crazy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
335. "I don't know, if you were rating them out of 100, what would "far" be?"
In response to Reply # 317


  

          

I don't think it'd be any more than five points and probably closer to 2-3.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
298. "This is the longest drawn out trade shit ever. Bulls new offer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

supposedly

Taj,
Mirotic
and McBuckets

for Love

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:22 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
299. "Dumb trade for the Bulls. "
In response to Reply # 298


          

Lose depth for pf. When you just signed a pf.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
301. "yep"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

selling the dream of mcbuckets summer league teh way morey sold Kings on Donte Greene after he dropped 50

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:44 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
302. "Smh....Yep. And Donte just got arrested during his comeback too. "
In response to Reply # 301


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
311. "RE: Dumb trade for the Bulls. "
In response to Reply # 299
Wed Jul-23-14 11:37 AM by murph71

          

>Lose depth for pf. When you just signed a pf.


I'm glad u r not our GM....lol


So u mean to tell me that we would be trading an unproven college player who may or may not be as good as Chandler Parsons, an overseas player who may or may not be the next Toni Kukoc...And a 30 year-old PF who is a damn good defender off the bench and a player who was thisclose to winning a 6th Man of Year, but who you could find a replacement for?

I would make that trade in a heartbeat given that we don't even know if McBuckets and Niko will even see significant playing time in the next two years....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 10:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
304. "McBuckets, Mirotic, and Butler might be their best possible offer."
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

Under the constraints of realism.

I think more of Jimmy's potential than I do of Taj's.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
306. "And I think Minny would like to have a potential white star coming back...."
In response to Reply # 304


          

to replace Love

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
2867 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
307. "I don't believe this to be a genuine offer"
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

Either the source is incorrect or the Bulls made the offer to get Cleveland to give up more.

They promised Mirotic, who've they've been wanting for 3+ years, that he wouldn't get traded when they signed him and they just signed McBuckets to his rookie contract. Not to mention their largest offseason acquisition was a PF.

If the Bulls were hesitant to give up Taj to get Melo, no way they're offering Taj, Jimmy Butler, and two rookies they've had their eyes on for a long time to land Love.

I'm calling bullshit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
310. "If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo..."
In response to Reply # 307


  

          

... then someone in the front office has lost their motherfucking mind.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
36966 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:36 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
312. "It's not about giving up Taj for Melo."
In response to Reply # 310


  

          

I don't think that was ever the case with the Bulls.
The real question: Would Melo want to play on a team without Taj?
It's just like the Deng for Kobe talk that always seems to rear its head in reference to the Bulls front office.
Kobe wanted to play WITH Deng, not on a depleted Bulls team.
I think the same goes for Melo.

https://digife.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:40 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
315. "RE: If the Bulls hesitated to give up Taj for Melo..."
In response to Reply # 310


          

>... then someone in the front office has lost their
>motherfucking mind.


That's not what happened....It was Melo who gave that stipulation...He wanted to play with a defensive minded PF...

Bulls would have happily driven Taj to the airport to get Melo...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
2867 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
316. "they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to"
In response to Reply # 310


  

          

For the record, I think most knowledgeable Bulls fans were content with the FO's pursuit of Melo. They did everything they could to land him without preemptively gutting their roster. They offered Melo several options, one of which was less money and Taj stays.

Taj for Love is a no brainer. Taj, Mirotic, and McDermott is a great deal for Chicago as well. I just don't think it's legitimate because the Bulls just signed Mirotic and McDermott, and it would hurt their image to future free agents to trade Mirotic after giving their word that they wouldn't.

Hopefully this will get Golden State to include Klay Thompson or force Cleveland to give up more assets. Either way it's a good move by the Bulls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:49 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
318. "RE: they were willing to give him up, but they didn't want to"
In response to Reply # 316


          


>Taj for Love is a no brainer. Taj, Mirotic, and McDermott is a
>great deal for Chicago as well. I just don't think it's
>legitimate because the Bulls just signed Mirotic and
>McDermott, and it would hurt their image to future free agents
>to trade Mirotic after giving their word that they wouldn't.


Nah...this is a pros, homie. No one would look badly at the Bulls pulling off such a trade except Niko...

It's just business....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
36966 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 11:37 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
314. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 307


  

          

The Bulls have done a good job of adding shooters and depth to a team that could perform well in a weak eastern conference. They'd sacrifice both of those things if they were seriously going for Love.

https://digife.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
330. "that would be some Bulls(hit)."
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:03 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
320. "MURPH PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT--TRUST THE KNOWABLE "
In response to Reply # 0


          



Remember kids. If you find yourself hesitating on whether or not you trade an unknown commodity to land a known commodity, seek immediate help....

I keep hearing all this talk about my Bulls' depth. And on the real, we will undoubtedly have the ability to throw out bodies on any given night. It was that power of the Bench Mob those years that helped guide Chicago to some pretty fucking gaudy win totals...

But regular season success is not enough...

U also need talent...Depth is meaningless if you don't have players who can make an impact beyond the hustle, gritty teammate plays...

If you say goodbye to McBuckets, Mitoric, and Taj for a chance to get Kevin Love (and add player filler here to make any deal happen), u do it...

Depth is only depth if it has history....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
36966 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
322. "We screamed for shooters last season..."
In response to Reply # 320


  

          

...but now we got them at various positions, you're saying toss 'em.

We criticized Thibs for playing guys 38+ minutes a game when he didn't have a bench to use. They GAVE him a bench again, and now you're saying trade that.

How many minutes do you think Love is gonna get without a back up PF?
What do the Bulls do if/when Noah goes down?
Why are we trying to have our cap tied up in Love, Gasol and Noah?

https://digife.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
select_from_where
Member since Jan 03rd 2011
4342 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
323. "NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING"
In response to Reply # 322


  

          

just because sheridan posts it doesn't mean its going to actually happen

This is old-fashioned market jacking, and I'm actually proud of Foreman for playing it this way

Jack up the market for Love, Cavs are DESPERATE to surround Bron with other stars. Cavs WILL get fleeced. cavs WILL get weaker, Bulls WILL Beat the shit out of cleveland in a 7 game series.


Fuck these rumors, im substantially proud of my FO this offseason, they are finally playing the leverage game right back at the league.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
328. "RE: NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECEUSE NONE OF ITS HAPPENING"
In response to Reply # 323


          

>just because sheridan posts it doesn't mean its going to
>actually happen
>
>This is old-fashioned market jacking, and I'm actually proud
>of Foreman for playing it this way
>
>Jack up the market for Love, Cavs are DESPERATE to surround
>Bron with other stars. Cavs WILL get fleeced. cavs WILL get
>weaker, Bulls WILL Beat the shit out of cleveland in a 7 game
>series.
>
>
>Fuck these rumors, im substantially proud of my FO this
>offseason, they are finally playing the leverage game right
>back at the league.


That def. could be going on...If Cleveland goes HAM and gives up too much, that's good news for the rest of the East and more importantly my Bulls...

But I also think Foreman has been hot for Love (see what I did there?) for a minute...

Still, I don't think this trade is going down....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 12:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
325. "RE: We screamed for shooters last season..."
In response to Reply # 322


          

>...but now we got them at various positions, you're saying
>toss 'em.
>
>We criticized Thibs for playing guys 38+ minutes a game when
>he didn't have a bench to use. They GAVE him a bench again,
>and now you're saying trade that.
>
>How many minutes do you think Love is gonna get without a back
>up PF?
>What do the Bulls do if/when Noah goes down?
>Why are we trying to have our cap tied up in Love, Gasol and
>Noah?


I mean, we all know this trade will never happen....So let's just start with that...lol

Otherwise, we don't know what kind of shooting we are getting from two unproven players who have yet to set foot on an NBA court....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 01:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
520. "cavs may very well have depth, too, they definitely have shooting"
In response to Reply # 320


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
326. "Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

we'll see.

Same source said it was done last week.


If its not signed tomorrow I wont comment on Love/Wiggins again until its over...tradetalkfatigue

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:15 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
329. "RE: Sources: Its done will be announced tomorrow to Cavs"
In response to Reply # 326


          

>we'll see.
>
>Same source said it was done last week.
>
>
>If its not signed tomorrow I wont comment on Love/Wiggins
>again until its over...tradetalkfatigue


LOL....

Would not surprise me....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
331. "Your sources more reliable than RJC27's?"
In response to Reply # 326


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
332. "Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???"
In response to Reply # 326


  

          

*crosses fingers*

It can't be Wiggins because he just signed his contract.

This has to be a rental anyway because of the salary cap. Kevin Love has to make more than Kyrie if he resigns so that hurts our cap even more. This is a dumb trade if Kevin Love doesn't agree to take less than 16 mill. Let's say the cap jumps to 68 mill.

13.67 + 15 + 22 = 50.67

The salary cap is 63.1 mill. This is a shit trade. Fuck Kevin Love's non defense playing ass. Either way Dion is gone. I hope the buffets in Minny or Philly are ready for him. He's going to gun on unprecedented AI levels.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
334. "If Minnesota makes that bullshit deal, they are dead to me"
In response to Reply # 332
Wed Jul-23-14 01:38 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

How are you going to take two crappy draft picks and the scraps of a team looking to contend? Kind of collusion shit is that? I doubt it happens though. Again they don't have to trade him.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
336. "RE: Dion, Tristan, and two first roud picks???"
In response to Reply # 332
Wed Jul-23-14 01:44 PM by murph71

          

>*crosses fingers*
>
>It can't be Wiggins because he just signed his contract.



That doesn't mean anything. They could announce the deal and wait 30 days for it to officially go through....Right?

Oh yeah...Minny ain't taking Dion, Tristan and picks for Love...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
338. "Yeah no"
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
339. "The word leaked that Wiggy was signing-- but i dont think it was"
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

ever officially signed.


All the googling I do shows that it was supposed to have been don but with no final announcement.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 06:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
353. "If the deal goes through without Wiggins..."
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

... I'm going to be petty as shit about it.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 08:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
359. "this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happens."
In response to Reply # 353


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 08:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
365. "RE: this board is going to look like The Towering Inferno if that happen..."
In response to Reply # 359


          



The question is who will be Shelley Winters?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Thu Jul-24-14 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
364. "You? Never"
In response to Reply # 353


  

          

>... I'm going to be petty as shit about it.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Mon Jul-28-14 08:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
372. "and if it doesn't?"
In response to Reply # 353


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
327. "Eric Bledsoe's Long, Hot, Restricted Summer (via Lowe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Eric Bledsoe’s Long, Hot, Restricted Summer



Eric Bledsoe and Greg Monroe are the last guys in the free-agency green room, discovering together how the weird netherworld of restricted free agency — where you’re neither fully restricted nor fully free (but perhaps verklempt) — can unfold at a snail’s pace.

Monroe’s free agency was earmarked for melodrama when Joe Dumars signed Josh Smith to a big-money contract last summer. That Bledsoe sits unsigned seems peculiar. He blossomed as a two-way beast in his first chance as a starter in Phoenix. The league is deeper than ever in quality point guards, and the Suns entered free agency with two — Bledsoe and Goran Dragic. But Dragic can be a free agent after next season, and the Suns thrived playing turbo-ball with both point guards on the floor. Phoenix also has one of the cleanest cap sheets in the league; splurging on a 24-year-old long-armed menace would be a no-brainer.

But the Suns signed a third starting-caliber point guard, Isaiah Thomas, and negotiations with Bledsoe have been stuck ever since. Could something sinister be going on here?

Probably not. It was only a year ago when Nikola Pekovic, also a restricted free agent, sat untouched until mid-August. The market dried up as potential suitors used their cap space, and the Wolves eventually re-signed Pekovic to a five-year, $60 million deal that was basically fair.

The same outcome is likely in Bledsoe’s case, though the market dynamics are different. Paul Coro of the Arizona Republic reported this week that the Suns had offered Bledsoe a four-year, $48 million contract, and that Bledsoe’s team is holding out for a five-year max offer that could run north of $80 million.

And here’s where you can see the wheels turning. The Suns’ offer would slot Bledsoe in the salary range of just about every “good but not great” point guard that has approached free agency over the last two years, with Ty Lawson ($12 million per year) and Jrue Holiday (a hair south of $11 million) the two closest comparable players. (You could toss in Stephen Curry’s ridiculous four-year, $44 million extension, but Curry’s chronic ankle issues forced him to accept a discount in exchange for locking in long-term security early.)

The Suns’ offer would pay Bledsoe exactly what fellow bulldog Kyle Lowry will make over the next four years, and much more than Mike Conley, Brandon Jennings, and Jeff Teague. That seems fair, considering Bledsoe has never logged 2,000 minutes in any season, and missed major time last season after undergoing a second operation on the meniscus cartilage in his right knee. Lawson and Holiday logged more combined minutes in their first three seasons, before signing contract extensions, than Bledsoe has in four full NBA campaigns. The luck of landing on Chris Paul’s team obviously affected that, but so have injuries and major early issues with shooting and turnovers.

Bledsoe had only a portion of the damaged meniscus removed, not the entire band of cushioning between bones, and he played well upon his return. This is nothing close to a Brandon Roy situation, or even a Dwyane Wade situation. But as great as he is, Bledsoe’s NBA track record is limited in comparison to most free agents who grab eight-figure deals after their fourth seasons, and the Suns would be taking on at least some long-term injury risk. Those injuries might scare Bledsoe off the nuclear option for any restricted free agent — taking the one-year qualifying offer, $3.7 million in Bledsoe’s case, and entering free agency unrestricted next summer.

The Suns also understand they are in a good position to play hardball. Most of the cap room around the league has dried up. There weren’t that many teams with both max-level cap space and an urgent need for a starting point guard, and three of those teams — Milwaukee, Orlando, and the Lakers — punted on chasing Bledsoe.

Some teams just don’t believe in pursuing restricted free agents. It’s easy to deliver Bledsoe’s agent a mammoth offer sheet, but it’d be much harder to sweat the 72 hours Phoenix would have to decide whether to match that offer sheet — three full days in which unencumbered teams could snatch up all the other free agents you might want.

And a team with matching rights can actually add an extra couple of days onto that window if it wants to be mean, which it should probably want to be. A little-known clause of the collective bargaining agreement gives any team that matches an offer sheet — Phoenix in this Bledsoe scenario — two days beyond that 72-hour window to administer the player in question a physical. The amount of the offer sheet stays on the rival team’s books during those two days, meaning a team in Phoenix’s position could lock a rival out of free agency for longer than 72 hours.

That’s why some teams just stay out of the derby entirely. The Lakers couldn’t dive into the Bledsoe sweepstakes right away, since they had to keep space open for LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony, and once those stars spurned them, the Lakers immediately gobbled up unrestricted free agents. The Magic and Bucks decided Bledsoe and restricted free agency weren’t for them, and neither seems likely to change course now. The Sixers have more cap room than anyone, but they appear to feel reflex nausea at the sight of any good veteran player on another team.

The Suns are right to push for a deal that is both fair and below the five-year mega-contract Bledsoe wants. There may come a point at which the Suns wish to trade Bledsoe, and options multiply if they have him on a contract with leaguewide appeal. Tacking on a fifth year would also prevent Phoenix from trading Bledsoe now, since teams cannot sign-and-trade a player inked to a contract that runs longer than four seasons. Ryan McDonough, the Suns’ GM, has had a killer first year on the job, and he’s not in the business of overpaying anyone on long-term deals. Ask Channing Frye.

But then you can hear the rejoinder from Rich Paul, Bledsoe’s agent: Gordon Hayward and Chandler Parsons just signed for $15 million per season apiece! One of those guys barely cracked 40 percent from the floor last season, and the other is two years older than Bledsoe, fresh off three seasons of playing minimal defense as a third option. Paul could argue that those contracts aren’t even that insane, since the cap is set to rise dramatically over the next three seasons — especially after the NBA signs the new national television deal that will kick in after the 2015-16 season.

You can see the line of thought. The cap will rise for Bledsoe too. The Holiday-Lawson-Curry $11 million–plus deals were signed two years ago, and they’re obsolete now — apples to oranges. Bledsoe sits squarely at the intersection of all sorts of competing trends.

The Suns might counter that if Bledsoe is really confident in both his own abilities and the leaping salary cap, perhaps he should sign a shorter deal at the kind of annual salary Phoenix is offering and set himself up to enter free agency again when the cap takes its biggest jump. We’ve already seen LeBron and Lance Stephenson try to time their next free agency this way, and we’re going to see more guys do it.

And that’s where things get interesting: Executives on lots of teams have gotten the sense from the league office that the NBA will try to smooth the increase of the cap level to minimize the impact of any massive one-year jump in revenue. Exactly how it would do that is unclear. The precise team salary cap — $58 million last season, $63 million this season — is tied to overall league revenues; the two rise and fall together. Players are guaranteed about 50 percent of the league’s “basketball-related income,” and the league and union set the cap figure so player salaries add up to a number in that 50 percent ballpark.

The league’s specific plan for smoothing out the cap increase is unclear, and in the end, it may opt against doing so at all. The players will receive their guaranteed 50 percent share of revenues regardless of any engineering.

You can see the sort of unpredictability it’s guarding against. A few teams have internal projections showing the cap level might jump as much as 30 percent over the next two years, and there is some anxiety that there could be a massive one-year jump in there somewhere depending on the exact timing of the announcement and implementation of the new national TV contract.

It’s a Wild West economic environment that makes it harder for teams and players to plan. It’s easier if you’re a no-brainer max guy, like LeBron, since you can sign one- or two-year deals with full confidence in locking up a long-term max whenever the cap rockets up by the largest amount. The challenge for teams is obvious, with Bledsoe’s free agency serving as a nice example. Gauging the proper value of a player changes if the cap jumps wildly year over year; constructing a long-term core is harder if more players start pushing for shorter contracts. On the flip side, shorter contracts today allow teams to plan for cap space tomorrow.

There are fairness issues for players too. Any guy with upside who signed a long-term contract last summer has to sit on the sideline now as the revenue bonanza ramps up. For players entering free agency now or next summer, the choice between long-term security and annual salary maximization is more stark than it has ever been. How much should a player have to sacrifice in hedging against injury or a decline in skill?

There are no easy answers, but the league may try to make them easier by artificially easing in the cap increase.

All of this plays into Phoenix’s negotiations with Bledsoe, which really aren’t so unusual within restricted free agency. Bledsoe is a really good player who is only starting to harness his skills as a creative floor leader. He has always been explosive off the bounce, but he learned under Chris Paul the power of a change-of-pace dribble — the ability to slow down, probe the lane, read the defense, and fire the right pass.

He reads the floor well, and he has emerged as a league-average 3-point shooter — a major win for him this early in his career. He got to the line six times per 36 minutes last year, a strong number for a guard.

He can still be a bit turnover-prone, but the yips of his first two seasons are gone, and more of his turnovers stem from patient prodding rather than the go-go-go recklessness that marked his first year or two. Bledsoe coughed it up on nearly 19 percent of his transition chances, the 22nd-worst mark among 229 players who finished at least 50 possessions in transition, per Synergy Sports. But fewer of those mistakes were head-slapping dashes to nowhere.

Bledsoe would often race ahead of his team, slow down, pull the ball out, and then try to hit a cutter with a risky pass that was just a tad offline. He likes to attack backpedaling defenders, and there were some spin moves in semitransition that ended badly. But these were not bananas-crazy Lance Stephenson–style transition turnovers, and that is encouraging.

And of course, Bledsoe is a beast on defense — what I like to call a Mirror Guy. A Mirror Guy reacts to the moves of his mark, both on and off the ball, with such perfect timing and balance that it almost appears as if the offensive player is working against his own reflection. Kawhi Leonard might be emerging as the league’s best perimeter Mirror Guy. Larry Sanders, when he’s actually playing basketball, has an uncanny knack for mimicking every jab step and feint a point guard throws at him on the pick-and-roll. He’s a big-man Mirror Guy.

Attacking Bledsoe one-on-one on the perimeter or from the block is usually going to lead to a brutally tough shot — even if you can drive into the restricted area. He’s so strong that one chest-to-chest bump stalls the momentum of almost any guard, and his giant wingspan allows him to challenge floaters and layups from all angles.

He’s not a perfect defender; he can get a little flat-footed ahead of a drive or a pick-and-roll, and he likes to press hard and reach for steals. Water bugs with quick crossovers gave him issues last season. But those guys give everyone issues, and Bledsoe’s elite speed and length allow him to recover from an early misstep better than most can manage.

He’s strong enough to guard some wing players, and the Suns would occasionally slot him on those types so that Dragic, Ish Smith, or even (in tiny doses) Gerald Green might take a run at opposing point guards. But Bledsoe mostly defended point guards, even while playing alongside Dragic.

There is also the small matter of Phoenix’s offense stalling out when Bledsoe ran solo. The Suns scored 108.4 points per 100 possessions when Dragic and Bledsoe played together, and just 100.7 when Dragic sat — a mark that would have ranked 25th among 30 teams over the full season. The team’s overall turnover rate spiked, and Bledsoe made more mistakes when he had to work as the lead ball handler.

Bledsoe also shot 55 percent in those non-Dragic minutes, and Phoenix, as fun as it was last season, wasn’t exactly awash in second-unit perimeter threats who could help Bledsoe create offense.

Bottom line: Bledsoe is a really good player, probably the most intriguing long-term guy of all the high-level restricted free agents. But the Suns are smart to push for a deal well below the max.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Wed Jul-23-14 01:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
337. "I want to see Monroe leave Detroit"
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

I think Dumars made some vow to Bill Davidson that he would ruin the next ownership's fucking lives. Signing an expensive bum that could lead to the departure of your best player would fit the bill nicely as a final fuck you.

Bledsoe I would kind of like to see stay. Wherever he lands I would like to see him stay healthy.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 09:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
379. "I wish Portland would grabbed Monroe instead of Kaman..."
In response to Reply # 337
Mon Aug-04-14 09:46 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

I mean, I'm not sure what the guy is asking as far as salary, or if they can afford him, but they're paying Kaman almost 5 mill.

Kaman makes them solid, but Monroe makes them better.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Thu Jul-31-14 10:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
373. "starting to sound like this deal is basically done"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 05:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
374. "Jonah Hill Windhorst reporting that a "handshake deal" has been made."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Wiggins to Minnesota, Bennett to Philly, Thad Young to Minnesota, Love to Cleveland. Other parts yet to be reported.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
kevlar skully
Member since Mar 13th 2007
6049 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 06:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
375. "He also reported that the Cavs were gonna offer Gordan Hayward the max "
In response to Reply # 374


  

          



just saying

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 08:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
376. "WORST TRADE IN LEAGUE HISTORY"
In response to Reply # 374


  

          

Bron will regret this trade inside of three years, WATCH.

Lebronon will ask more help after realizing Kevin Love makes too much and Bron won't win another title.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 09:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
377. "Will you still ride for AB if he's in Philly?"
In response to Reply # 374


  

          

Anti-Philly trumps Pro-Canada

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 09:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
381. "Me? I was never a huge AB guy."
In response to Reply # 377


  

          

Ask concreteCharlie and MothershipConnection how I responded when the Cavs picked him, lol.

I just think he'll be better than his historic bust season indicated-- a kid with some real offensive potential. And I think dealing him with Wiggins is too much unless they get something-- anything-- else back.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 09:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
378. "they should ship waiters to philly"
In response to Reply # 374


  

          

even if they have to tweak it a bit since i'd assume right now philly is angling for a pick or two. see if they can get back lavine (lol) or airbud or brewer or barea.

k.j. mcdaniels and wroten are good rotational players but no reason they can't come off the bench. ne'd have the minutes and green light he wants to be happy there.

i know they're gonna need wings cause they're (stupidly) giving up wiggins, but a team with 30 mins every night of kyrie, dion, and love together is gonna be some drama.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 09:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
380. "Dion called himself Lebron's new D-Wade."
In response to Reply # 378


  

          

He's about to be the fourth option.

He gots to go.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
395. "you keep saying this. but the signs are pointing to bron wanting him"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          


>He gots to go.

and tristan to stay

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
415. "If he's happy to take fewer shots and commit on defense..."
In response to Reply # 395


  

          

... then I'll be happy for him to stay.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18639 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
509. "Kyrie needs to do the same 2 things"
In response to Reply # 415


  

          

and stay healthy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18639 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 04:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
490. "did he really? Or are you talking about this?"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          

“I have to make adjustments,” Waiters said. “I like to have the ball and we have Kyrie, and he likes to have the ball. So I have to find ways to impact the game without having the ball. I’m planning to go watch tape to see what D-Wade did when he played with LeBron. I need to learn how to be effective out there with him.”


“(Wade) is a ball-dominant guard too, and when LeBron came over he had to change his game too,” Waiters said. “He was so efficient, though, and that really helped their game. I think I can learn a lot from what he did.”

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 10:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
382. "Sixers win. Wolves make out okay. Cavs lose. "
In response to Reply # 374


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 10:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
383. "Shit, Wolves win BIG."
In response to Reply # 382


  

          

They got Wiggins and Young for a guy that was gonna leave in a season anyway.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 10:45 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
384. "But I'm sure at some point they thought they'd get more for Love."
In response to Reply # 383


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Mon Aug-04-14 10:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
385. "i doubt it. they didn't even have a trade plan. they're lucky if it happ..."
In response to Reply # 384


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
rjc27
Charter member
14602 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 08:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
389. "agree... Thad and Pekovic keeps that frontcourt nice too on the glass"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          

Less Love jacking equals more ball movement... oh, and you get wiggins!


@rob_starrk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 08:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
391. "I'll see what draft picks come in/leave before judging"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          

But Thad and Wiggins makes me pretty happy.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 06:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
386. "Lmao, you such a pressed college fan"
In response to Reply # 382


  

          

When has a team that has received a superstar with 5-8 years left in his prime regretted it?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 08:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
387. "pressed college fan"
In response to Reply # 386


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 08:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
388. "Wait....what does college have to do with this now?"
In response to Reply # 386


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 08:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
390. "only a college fan"
In response to Reply # 388


  

          

could think giving up bennett and wiggins for kevin love represents a bad trade. it's born out of the fact that y'all spend all winter watching college games, know these players, and overrate their likelihood, and the extent, of their future success in the nba each and every year.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
392. "Lol...I'm not watching Kansas or UNLV. I have zero horses in this."
In response to Reply # 390


          

Cavs lose because:
-they now have to pay Kevin Love
-I like Kevin Love, but I don't think what he does well this team needs.
-according to some Cavs fans Dion needed to get moved. This trade didn't serve that.
-they still have Tristan playing the same position as Love. Didn't move him. His contact is due.
-they give up Bennett who has a boatload of potential.
-they give up on Wiggins who has even more potential than Bennett
-the Cavs lose out in roster flexibility with Bron, Kyrie, & Love locked up. And only 1 of them dudes play defense.
-in the long run, I think a team of Bron, Kyrie, Dion, Wiggins, & Bennett is better than this team. Bennett is an ultimate mismatch and Wiggins could essentially do all of the super duper athlete & lock down defender shit that Bron doesn't want to do.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
393. "this right here is what i mean"
In response to Reply # 392


  

          

>
>Wiggins, & Bennett is better than this team. Bennett is an
>ultimate mismatch and Wiggins could essentially do all of the
>super duper athlete & lock down defender shit that Bron
>doesn't want to do.

lmao at this wishcasting. Bennett just finished the worst rookie season for a number 1 pick ever and wiggins hasn't played a game yet.

might they turn into what you said? sure, maybe, but it's no sure bet, and history says neither will get to championship level for at least three more years.

so, what, you want to just waste the next two years (at least) of Bron's prime and miss trading for a top ten players who's 26 all so you can hope that these guys reach their potential?

bird in the hand.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
396. "People are in love with potential"
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

We all know Love's positives and negatives, but Bennett and Wiggins (the versions in my mind) have no downside.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:12 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
398. "See, I'm saying the trade is short sighted & your response is..."
In response to Reply # 393


          

"What about Bron's prime?"

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

With Kevin Love they're not winning a title this year anyway.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
400. "They wont even contend for the ECF"
In response to Reply # 398


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
401. "Who said that?"
In response to Reply # 400
Tue Aug-05-14 10:18 AM by TheRealBillyOcean

          

Oh and Kristen Kish is the bees knees.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
407. "I missed the season she was on"
In response to Reply # 401


  

          

but man her face, is stunning. Top 5 in my book, right today.


---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
419. "I just watched it last week on Hulu. I'm watching all the seasons."
In response to Reply # 407


          

She is bad.

And a beastly chef too. Them dudes were shook at her talent.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
402. "they're winning the East easy, then it depends on the matchup"
In response to Reply # 398
Tue Aug-05-14 10:22 AM by bshelly

  

          

yes, the spurs would probably sweep that team while putting up 130 a game for the entire series. the spurs are a different animal though, if the spurs are going to repeat this season, everyone else is just kind of screwed.

i don't think it's a given that a bron/love/kyrie tandem automatically loses to okc or the clippers.

EDIT: also, love's awfulness as a defender is overstated, kyrie will get a lot better, and with those three guys, you could flip dion for a dalembert-caliber rim protector and be straight.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:28 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
403. "Okay, I have you down for "winning the East easy""
In response to Reply # 402


          

And OKC is definitely a lot better than the Cavs. Just stop.

And Kevin Love's lack of defense is getting overblown because......?
All of the key stops you seen the Wolves get over the years?
All of the defensive lockdowns he's done?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
404. "Because I am not scared of numbers"
In response to Reply # 403


  

          

Advanced stats say he's progressed to "meh" level defense. He's not good, but he's far from the horrible Harden level. Yeah, you want to get a rim protector next to him, but he'll be fine in a sound defensive concept.

As far as OKC being clearly better than them, y'all are seriously sleeping on how good Bron and especially Love really are. It's cool. Sounds like the trade is done, so you'll learn.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:39 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
405. "No, you're confused. Nobody is questioning Bron. The other pieces, yes."
In response to Reply # 404


          

Lol...at your "How dare you question Kevin Love?" stance.

He's done absolutely nothing to warrant this level of optimism.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
412. "we'll see"
In response to Reply # 405


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
437. "RE: they're winning the East easy"
In response to Reply # 402


  

          

absolutely.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
423. "The East is not as strong due to injury/player movement."
In response to Reply # 393


  

          

Chicago is probably the biggest threat but has health concerns.

But even without those concerns, Cavs+Bron = Cavs still better *wink*.

So basically, Cavs get two years to develop their youngsters in a conference that has minimal roadblocks to the finals and then they get to learn HOW to play championship ball 2 yrs running.

Cavs STILL maintain cap flexibility and the ability to add more pieces that would extend Bron's prime and set Clev up for a 15-20 year contender run given Wiggins/Bennett/Kyrie post-Bron and whatever they could move Dion for.

>lmao at this wishcasting. Bennett just finished the worst
>rookie season for a number 1 pick ever and wiggins hasn't
>played a game yet.

So if you're going to wishcast, it would be given the opportunity. The Spurs won a title in Tim Duncan's second season. D-Wade got one yr 3 because of Shaq. Bron can get the Young Bol's to the mountaintop. Their talent will get them further as it grows. Kevin Love isn't getting much better on either side of the ball (maybe a smidge on D if he commits), is gonna cost 20 mil a year and doesn't guarantee a ring more than keeping the young guys.

>so, what, you want to just waste the next two years (at least)
>of Bron's prime and miss trading for a top ten players who's
>26 all so you can hope that these guys reach their potential?

How is it a waste when even WITH the youngsters, ECF is their MINIMUM? That means they are contenders and could only get BETTER. I think Bron would be happy if in 5 years he got 3-5 more shots at a ring and towards the end, those guys were coming into their own to help him even more versus a few shots at it then being stuck for the last 3 due to lack of roster flexibility with a guy hitting/past 30 (Love) as his best wing man.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
450. "yeah, you just want to back into an ECF title to save Rose's legacy"
In response to Reply # 423


  

          


>But even without those concerns, Cavs+Bron = Cavs still better
>*wink*.
>
>So basically, Cavs get two years to develop their youngsters
>in a conference that has minimal roadblocks to the finals and
>then they get to learn HOW to play championship ball 2 yrs
>running.

which only happens if wiggins and bennett reach their potential, which is far far far far far from assured. i get kevin love, i got a chance at a ring next year.

>So if you're going to wishcast, it would be given the
>opportunity. The Spurs won a title in Tim Duncan's second
>season. D-Wade got one yr 3 because of Shaq.

so now Andrew Wiggins is going to be as good as Tim Duncan and D-Wade, guaranteed. there's no chance he could be anything less than a first ballot all star. ok.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
452. "lol @ the concept of "backing into an ecf" coming from a bron stan"
In response to Reply # 450


  

          

n/m

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
454. "you mean the guy who's won 5 conference titles and 2 rings?"
In response to Reply # 452


  

          

versus the guy who has zero, zero, and zero healthy knees?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
461. "you didn't address my point. "
In response to Reply # 454


  

          

i mean, he had a very easy path to the finals, yes? it's hard to debate that.

he backed into those finals (one of which he was lucky to win) with the help of rose's bad knees. the east was arguably at an all-time weakest point the last couple years.

regardless, you are posting mad lately.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
397. "as a basketball fan i like the prospects of this WAY better"
In response to Reply # 392


  

          

.
>-in the long run, I think a team of Bron, Kyrie, Dion,
>Wiggins, & Bennett is better than this team.


bron is putting himself into a title or bust EVERY year scenario again
and that's fine
but people keep talking about brons window like he's 35 or something
i don't mind waiting 2-3 yrs as a fan if it means seeing a more dominant balanced team at the end of that timeframe
bron's prime might even be extended a bit if the expectations aren't title and bust with him playing 48 minutes a night because the cavs shit depth after the love deal

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:16 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
399. "Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get them..."
In response to Reply # 397


          

and to where playing with Lebron can get them, that's a bankable 62 to 68 wins each year with Bron not playing crazy mins and chilling through the regular season. That's a proper dynasty.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
RexLongfellow
Charter member
18296 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
408. "That's The Issue Though"
In response to Reply # 399


  

          

The key word to what you said is IF
I can't say that Wiggins won't be a star. Personally, I think he will, so let's take that IF out of the deal

But Bennett RIGHT TODAY is a HUGE IF. IF he plays up to his potential, then whoever gets him in the trade wins BIG. If he turns out to be like LJ, then Cleveland will look like idiots. But IF he turns out to be more Joe Smith, then Cleveland would've made the smart move.

Personally, I would rather get the known then the unknown. Especially the known that although might cost more, you know what you're gonna get. Trading Wiggins hurts a bit, but if Bennett has to be in the deal and that's it? Make that deal. If the Cavs are giving up Wiggins and Bennett, that's the right move. They're keeping Dion and Tristan (who I think is doodoo, but that's another story)

There's not a lot of Kevin Love's out there...and he's not an IF

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
410. "You think Bron wants to take Wiggins under his wing?"
In response to Reply # 399


  

          

That's supposed to be his competition, the next "alpha male" if you will. In theory its great and a great story, but as you pointed out yesterday, Lebron hasnt even reached out to the kid. That tells you enough about the view of Wiggins narrative as the "crown prince" or the "born usurper".

Bron on His Joffrey

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
413. "Nope so the paragraph in The Letter about grooming young talent"
In response to Reply # 410


  

          

in Cleveland was a lie

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
414. "That's Your boy!"
In response to Reply # 413


  

          

You just want him to have aweaker team in the short term so you have some time to cop pleas. Its okay, with Love they'll be fine. After last time around I think they're allowed at least 1 year grace period.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
417. "plea cop what?"
In response to Reply # 414


  

          

bron already has his chips , which i ain't even pressed about anyway, and he already is getting positioned as a legit threat to jordan's goatness with only 2 chips
i like lebron but i didn't cosign this move to cleveland and i don't cosign him painting a narrative about going back home only to have him immediately trying construct another super team
if he didn't reach out to wiggins at all that's some nut ass shit

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:29 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
422. "Wiggins said in the ESPN interview he hasn't heard from him."
In response to Reply # 417


          

Then threw out some, "I guess we're both busy." type of excuse.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
426. "yet bron reached out to kevin love and is tweeting all crazy"
In response to Reply # 422


  

          

dude had time to send wiggins a text
he's basically on vacation right now
that's the thing i don't like. i think this kevin love shit is entirely bron motivated
cavs seemed totally content to keep the young core going forward, the coach said as much
when bron gave the edict that shit was a wrap though

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
432. "Yep, it is a complete Lebron move. And I'm not down with..."
In response to Reply # 426


          

letting Lebron pick the team.

Riley didn't let that happen.

The Cavs let Bron do that the first go around.

And what happens if this shit falls apart and he leaves in 2 yrs? He'll hit them with, "Y'all should've made better moves."

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:28 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
420. "I would think Bron is bigger than that & has enough ego to not be..."
In response to Reply # 410


          

threatened by Wiggins.

He works out with Durant. Durant is more heir to the throne than Wiggins.

Wiggins by all accounts is the nicest of nice kids. If anything Bron could jump in, take him under his wing and earn some points for making him who he is just like MJ did with Scottie.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
463. "LOL @ Bron being threatened by Wiggins"
In response to Reply # 420


  

          

and wanting him traded for a 25-year-old four-time All-Star that will take touches from him.

I'm sure Bron would be fine with keeping Andrew Wiggins over Anthony Bennett and Dion Waiters, unfortunately for them even Minnesota in the Kahn era wouldn't be that dumb and desperate.

Love's prime on paper should last longer than Lebron's from here and Cleveland's entire purpose as a city who hasn't won anything in 50 years that just had the #1 pick in the draft 3 out of the last 4 years because of how shitty they've been since Lebron left, is taking as many cracks as possible at a title before Lebron's prime concludes.

You said Lebron/Love/Kyrie wouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals.

I'd imagine you'll start to walk back that laugh-worthy bit of bullshit by now, instead I'll be generous and give you the entire east field next postseason while I get the Cavs.

You let me know what you wanna bet on it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
488. "That's what Shawn suggested."
In response to Reply # 463


          

Nice to know you're a Cavs superfan now though.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 05:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
494. "I'm a Sixers fan, by time Wiggins comes into his own, Twin Towers here"
In response to Reply # 488


  

          

So I'd suggest they start trying to win right now while Lebron is at his peak and Love is reaching his rather than wait on a raw 19-year-old you were lucky enough to land and provided you with an 'upside' asset you can sell to a team forced to get rid of their best player.

I'm aware that Shawn was the one to trot that out first, not sure he was being altogether literal but the notion is something I chuckled at much like I did at your claim that Kevin Love, Lebron James, Kyrie Irving wouldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals.

Like I was saying, I'm guessing you can and will back off that statement as we move along here, you can always blame it on Indiana's mismanagement and misfortunes.

This is why I gave you two additional rounds of win as a charitable donation for any wager we would make on the matter.

I'm more excited about the Sixers than I have been since Iverson was cupping his ears in the direction of my corner seats on the home floor during his doube-nickel evisceration of the Hornets in the '03 playoffs.

But in addition to that I'm also a fan of NBA basketball, Lebron James' contributions to it and of winning wagers on either of those two subjects amongst others.

Maybe next reply you can give me a response on this generous offer. peace.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 06:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
498. "Nah, I'm still good with saying they won't make the ECF *shrugs*"
In response to Reply # 494


          

Pacers going down is a blow. But I Don't know why I'll change.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 06:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
499. "okay. How bout a wager with u taking the field on Cavs in Final?"
In response to Reply # 498


  

          

>Pacers going down is a blow. But I Don't know why I'll
>change.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 06:29 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
500. "I don't wager. Me saying it is enough for me. "
In response to Reply # 499


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 05:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
511. "Good thing for that. You'd be broke with these type of prognostications "
In response to Reply # 500


  

          

It is noted tho so now that I know u won't be losing money I/we can laugh about it later.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 05:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
512. "Twin Hype"
In response to Reply # 494


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
424. "RE: Exactly. If those guys get to where their natural talent can get the..."
In response to Reply # 399


          



Everybody loves that word...

"IF"


Until they don't....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:07 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
411. "As a guy who doesn't want title expectations on Lebron, you like it"
In response to Reply # 397


  

          

way better.

You literally don't like the fact that he's expected to seriously contend for a title right away.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
428. "he won 2 already. you and cenerio and all the other idiots who hated"
In response to Reply # 411


  

          

on bron ALREADY LOST
he could never win again and i wouldn't lose sleep over it from an agenda pov
espn/bayless and them going do what they do regardless
i don't argue with them niggas though so don't care

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

snacks
Member since Sep 15th 2005
5814 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
394. "Not for nothing, but right today the following are UFAs in 2015:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Paul Millsap
Brandon Bass
Brook Lopez (player option)
Al Jefferson (player option)
Roy Hibbert
David West
Glen Davis
DeAndre Jordan
Carlos Boozer
Marc Gasol
Omer Asik
Amare Stoudemire
Nick Collins
Kendrick Perkins
Thad Young
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love (doubt Minny lets this happen, but still)

_____________________________________

The Brand Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@themonarchbrand
https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2023071.rss

The Life Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@thewaterpodcast
https://redcircle.com/shows/the-water-podcast

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
427. "Rondo is a UFA in 2015 too"
In response to Reply # 394


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
snacks
Member since Sep 15th 2005
5814 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
443. "True, I was just posting up the bigs"
In response to Reply # 427


          

_____________________________________

The Brand Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@themonarchbrand
https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2023071.rss

The Life Pod
https://www.youtube.com/@thewaterpodcast
https://redcircle.com/shows/the-water-podcast

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
406. "Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bennett and Wiggins just not ready.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:20 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
418. "RE: Fair trade. Love will still average 20 and 10."
In response to Reply # 406


          

>Bennett and Wiggins just not ready.


This^^^is where I'm at....(Although when I really look at it I think the Cavs are kind of skating in terms of what they are giving up...Minny stupid for not trying to hold out for Tristan or Dion...)

But in terms of Love working out for this team, I'm with that thinking....I think Wiggins will show how REALLY good he is in his 3rd, 4th year...The kid def. has the goods...Bennett? I don't know how he will be...He's a huge question mark...And as much as I shit on Love for not leading his team to even a 8th seed I never confuse that with his talent....

Anyone asking what he will bring to the Cavs is either someone who is letting their hate for Love blind them to his actual skills or is just fucking around...

Love will bring rebounding, pure shooting (outside/3 pt), scoring and interior passing (he's shown that he can pass the rock when he has real options)...What he lacks in defense can be masked...

Bottom line...Love ain't good enough to be a no. 1 option on a team...But I believe he will play that Robin role very well with James...His specific skill set creates the perfect combo with James...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
416. "I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

officially out of PLEA COPS now. a top 5 PF playing with the best player in the world and a top 5 PG?

No more "bad team" excuses, we'll get to see what he's really all about.

It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers he puts up playing with Lebron and Kyrie...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:29 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
421. "RE: I can't wait to see Love get EXPOSED for the fraud he is, he's..."
In response to Reply # 416


          

>officially out of PLEA COPS now. a top 5 PF playing with the
>best player in the world and a top 5 PG?
>
>No more "bad team" excuses, we'll get to see what he's really
>all about.
>
>It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers he puts up
>playing with Lebron and Kyrie...


It's one thing to question Love on not being a true no. 1 option, which I believe to be the case...

It's quite another to call the guy a fraud...lol

James has made MUCH lesser players into playoff caliber talents..He's taken players that shouldn't even be starting to the playoffs...

Love will be fine as a Cav...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
425. "when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as..."
In response to Reply # 421


          

a player. I think playing with Lebron and Kyrie he's numbers are going to fall off like Bosh's did when he went to Miami as the 3rd option behind Lebron and Wade.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
431. "if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love stans"
In response to Reply # 425


  

          

love is about to get 5-7million per MORE than what bosh got
and he's supposed to be a better scorer rebounder at this point of his career than bosh ever was (according to new love stans)
i'm not trying see 16 points a game from dude
that would be a complete individual failure given the support he'd have on this team
22ppg+ and 10rpg or it's a L

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
435. "RE: if Love is a 3rd banana like bosh was then that's a L for new Love s..."
In response to Reply # 431
Tue Aug-05-14 12:29 PM by murph71

          


I don't know any of these Love STANS that u speak of except for the STAT obsessed folks and people who need that great white hope...

Mostly everyone else has pointed out that Love has never led his team to the playoffs..They point out that he has not been the best teammate...But they also see that beyond KG's stint at Minny, that franchise has been a wasteland...

Only folks on message boards care about STANNING/L's as it pertains to 2nd/3rd banana status on a pro team....I'm sure at this point in his career Love just wants to win some games and make the playoffs...Something that he has been unable to do in Minny...

In other words...It ain't that serious, my dude...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
438. "of course not"
In response to Reply # 435
Tue Aug-05-14 12:38 PM by southphillyman

  

          

>In other words...It ain't that serious, my dude...lol
>
>

this thread ain't that serious as it pertains to my life
but i'm in here with hella other niggas 400 replies deep
yall picked yall side on this love shit. own it.
cavs need to win a title this year and multiple titles over all....as that's the main incentive for adding love. amiright
and love needs to ball better than bosh did

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:54 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
444. "RE: of course not"
In response to Reply # 438
Tue Aug-05-14 12:58 PM by murph71

          

>>In other words...It ain't that serious, my dude...lol
>>
>>
>
>this thread ain't that serious as it pertains to my life
>but i'm in here with hella other niggas 400 replies deep
>yall picked yall side on this love shit. own it.
>cavs need to win a title this year and multiple titles over
>all....as that's the main incentive for adding love. amiright
>and love needs to ball better than bosh did


I don't think anyone is reaching by saying that u choose the knowable vs. the unkownable (made up a word...but u get it....)...That's what much of the 400 plus post debate has been about...Do you go for the kid with potential or the guy who has shown he can put in work in the NBA....?

It's not jumping to the side of Love by making the reasonable argument that the Cavs r making the right move by going with the player that is a known PRO commodity....

I'm not a Love fan by any stretch...I think he's not a no. 1 guy...But then again, I'm not much for potential...He can def. be your two or he can share the load with a gifted player...

But again...debating over potential vs. the knowable is totally different than going the route of creating Love STANS out the air and making the white boy out to be the reason James won't bring a ring to Cleveland...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
439. "RE: when he's not volume scoring I don't think he has the same value as...."
In response to Reply # 425


          

>a player. I think playing with Lebron and Kyrie he's numbers
>are going to fall off like Bosh's did when he went to Miami as
>the 3rd option behind Lebron and Wade.


I don't think he cares about that...lol...As I said below Love just wants to get out of that joke of a franchise...He wants to taste some wins...he wants to get in the playoffs...We talking about a player that has never sniffed the 'Offs....He's been on some terrible teams so I'm sure he wants to prove that he can be a winner.

U guys are doing way too much with this other soap opera shit...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
440. "lmao the NBA is basically soap operas now"
In response to Reply # 439


  

          


>U guys are doing way too much with this other soap opera
>shit...lol

the first week of FAgency this year was better than 80% of the playoff series that proceeded it
no one is talking x's and o's on here right now
it's all speculation and arguments over potential plot twist

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
442. "Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer."
In response to Reply # 439


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
448. "RE: Kevin Love doesn't care about stats? okayplayer."
In response to Reply # 442


          



I'm sure dude wants to experience the playoffs...U actually think if Love was averaging 16 and 10 that he would be raising bloody hell? On a Team with LeBron James?...lol...Come on, dog...

I think u doing too much....To "me" the logical discussions to be having r the debate of the unproven Pro commodity vs. the proven Pro commodity...Or whether or not the Cavs would be missing a rim protection and should they give up Dion to get that dirty work guy...

But jumping off the deep end about a player WHO HAS NEVER BEEN TO THE PLAYOFFS kicking up dust because he's not averaging 24 and 12 while playing next to the best player of his generation?

The only way u will see Love bitching is the same reason u see any star player bitching about their "touches"...

If they are losing...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
455. "we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates..."
In response to Reply # 448


          

for rebounds.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
471. "RE: we're talking about a guy who routinely boxes out his own teammates...."
In response to Reply # 455


          



When u r losing team, stats are all u got...

I think it's good that Love has the chance to play his true role...Because he's not a 1st option/leader for a team...

Basically, I think Love will be OK playing next to James...And Love won't be barking on Bron the same way he was with his Minny teammates....

The least thing to be worried about....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 11:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
429. "I think the opposite is about to happen"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

I have that nagging feeling this Cavs teams will win more games next season than the Heat won in each of the last 4 years.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
430. "this is true of both love and kyrie imo. if cavs don't win it shouldn't"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

be on lebron unless he disappears in the finals again
we already know what lebron can do with a good cast
if they lose again or don't even make the finals it's time to evaluate love and kyrie as supporting players

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
433. "How is Kyrie is a top 5 point guard???"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

I love the Cavs but I need some help with this one.

Is Kyrie a top 5 point guard? He's clearly top 15 but top 5 is a stretch.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
436. "What 5 point guards are better than Kyrie RIGHT TODAY?"
In response to Reply # 433


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
441. "I'm asking you the question."
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

Why do you think Kyrie is a top 5 point guard in the NBA?

You didn't say top 5 young nigga, you said the entire league.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
445. "At this point I think CP, Curry and Westbrook are clearly top 3, after....."
In response to Reply # 441


          

that it's a tossup. Parker is obviously more accomplished but is he really a better player than Kyrie? Personally I don't think so.

Are we putting Rose back up there based of a few practices and a half of a scrimmage? I'm not.

Deron has obviously fell out of the convo.

Rondo isn't otherworldly without 3 HOF'ers with him.

From there it's a tossup between other young guys like Wall and Lillard depending on what you want your pg to do.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
446. "i think most ppl rating kyrie are talking out of their ass"
In response to Reply # 441


  

          

most of these PGs we're arguing about we ALL have seen in multiple prime time games. many on the biggest stage (playoff)
unless you live in the cleveland area who the fuck was really watching 20+ cavs games last yr
and even if you were what were the context of his performances?
was it garbage time by the 3rd quarter? was the other team even trying hard that night?
who knows
this year we will really see how good kyrie and love are on prime time under the lights.

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
449. "same way everybody's a kevin love expert..."
In response to Reply # 446


  

          

knowing good and gotdamn well they ain't watched 10 timberwolves games since KG left.

but they know his game inside and out. okay.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
456. "You guys are right, well we get see plenty of them this year, I'm sure....."
In response to Reply # 449


          

those national tv schedules are being juggled as we speak, lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
458. "juggled? cavs getting opening day and a christmas slot lol"
In response to Reply # 456


  

          

this ain't the NFL
you going have every opportunity to shit on Love this year
he bet not brick any game winners when bron deflects and bet not get destroyed in the paint by LA, blake, or ant davis
kyrie going finally be under that same microscope

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
459. "speakin of ant davis. i'm on that this year. playoffs or else. "
In response to Reply # 458


  

          

all i see is a giant pass given to him. he been MORE injury prone than kyrie and he ain't made the playoffs.

same way kyrie got knocked down a peg this year, i expect the same treatment for AD.

he need to carry them bums to the playoffs.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
462. "If they can stay healthy the Hornets should definitely be in the playoff..."
In response to Reply # 459


          

this year.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
464. "naw he in the western conference"
In response to Reply # 459


  

          

he lost jrue and anderson and still won more games than kyrie in a tougher conference
pellies a lock to win 40 games next year
he leapfrogged kyrie and got that #1 young player crown already

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
466. "playoffs...he supposedly a top 10 player already. that's playoffs to me...."
In response to Reply # 464


  

          

this being unreasonable thing is gonna be fun this year. i'mma make it work for me instead of always having to present facts. i'm taking hardline stances and i'm acting stupid about ancillary factors...all that matters is the result.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
465. "2 points"
In response to Reply # 459


  

          

a) missing the offs out west: waaay different than missing them in the east

b) when holiday, smith and anderson all went out, there was no way he was carrying them. he could've put 40/20 and it wouldn't have mattered

that said, i see your point. i do think they make the postseason this year tho. low key, the asik pickup was one of the best of the summer.






>all i see is a giant pass given to him. he been MORE injury
>prone than kyrie and he ain't made the playoffs.
>
>same way kyrie got knocked down a peg this year, i expect the
>same treatment for AD.
>
>he need to carry them bums to the playoffs.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
467. "damn forgot about this"
In response to Reply # 465


  

          

>, the asik pickup was one of
>the best of the summer.

modify my above response to lock for 45 wins

~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
469. "should be 50...he top 10...and jrue an all-star....should be 55"
In response to Reply # 467


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 05:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
513. "Jrue was a two season-ending injuries and playing in the East All-Star"
In response to Reply # 469


  

          

He will never flash that Colgate smile as a player at All-Star Weekend ever again.

Still, the Pelicans should at least be an eight-seed off Brow alone.

No way in hell do they see 55 wins tho.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Kajun
Member since Jan 11th 2008
1007 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 12:25 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
516. "This was and still is such a massive plea cop."
In response to Reply # 513


  

          

At the 2013 All Star break:

"This season, Holiday is averaging team-highs of 19.0 points and 9.0 assists along with 4.2 rebounds and 1.45 steals per game. He ranks 13th in the NBA in scoring and fourth in assists and is the only player in the league averaging at least 19.0 points and 9.0 assists."


19, 9 and 4 is an All Star any year, in any league.

Now whether or not he ever gets back there is certainly up for debate, but Jrue absolutely, 100% was a deserving All Star in 2013 regardless of injuries or whatever revisionist bullshit you wanna keep trotting out.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Thu Nov-06-14 04:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
523. "just seeing this now so apologies for pummeling belatedly:"
In response to Reply # 516


  

          

>At the 2013 All Star break:
>
>"This season, Holiday is averaging team-highs of 19.0 points
>and 9.0 assists along with 4.2 rebounds and 1.45 steals per
>game. He ranks 13th in the NBA in scoring and fourth in
>assists and is the only player in the league averaging at
>least 19.0 points and 9.0 assists."
>
>
>19, 9 and 4 is an All Star any year, in any league.
>
19/9 on a 22-30 team as the first option on low 40s FG% is All-Star in any league/conference/year?

Over Russ, CP3 & Parker if he'd been in the West?

Hell No.

Over Rondo & Kyrie in the East if Rondo (the elected starter) wasn't hurt?

No again.

Shoot even Wall was better than that when he came back that season, in every statistical category, with a better team record while in the lineup.

>Now whether or not he ever gets back there is certainly up for
>debate, but Jrue absolutely, 100% was a deserving All Star in
>2013 regardless of injuries or whatever revisionist bullshit
>you wanna keep trotting out.
>
He was a deserving injury-replacement in an Eastern Conference low on All-Star PG's and eventually finished with 17/8/4 which was basically .3 points, 1.7 assists (with no one to pass to) more and 2 less boards per game than MCW in his much-critiqued ROY campaign in a weak year.

Whoopty-Damn-Do.

No one is mistaking either season or player's game for a *must have* All-Star.

Nothing revisionist about the truth, spoken by someone who lived thru both & had reason to study each closely.

There's nothing for Jrue to 'get back' to......him on his best day was/is/shall-be barely a Top 10 PG.

That isn't likely to change moving forward in now his sixth season as a pro.
>
>

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
475. "yeah they finna have that paint on clack-clack."
In response to Reply # 467
Tue Aug-05-14 02:45 PM by dula dibiasi

  

          

reke had a nice second half too. 17, 6 and 5 after the break.

i think they make a solid leap and AD gets some MVP chatter.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
468. "*being unreasonable and acting stupid when confronting with legit facts*"
In response to Reply # 465


  

          


he need to make the playoffs.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
476. "lolz"
In response to Reply # 468


  

          

no doubt. when in rome.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
470. "How is he getting a pass? He's been in the league two whole years. "
In response to Reply # 459


  

          

>all i see is a giant pass given to him.

He's played two years for N.O. That giant pass is called "youth".
Based on his progress thus far, this is definitely a show/prove year for him, but saying he's gotten a pass up to this point is absurd. He's got three nice guards around him and a decent player in Ryan, but let's not act like he walked onto CP3's NO squad.

he been MORE injury
>prone than kyrie and he ain't made the playoffs.

In just two years. What were you expecting from him in his first two years?

>same way kyrie got knocked down a peg this year, i expect the
>same treatment for AD.
>
>he need to carry them bums to the playoffs.

Well yeah, now. Going forward. But up to this point? Nah, he's straight. No pass.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
473. "same shit i said about kyrie last summer, after his SECOND season"
In response to Reply # 470


  

          

but dudes were talking about how he missed the playoffs.

all i'm saying is...playoffs. no excuses.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
477. "Meh. Don't let other's reaction to Kyrie cloud your perspective on AD"
In response to Reply # 473


  

          

>but dudes were talking about how he missed the playoffs.

Whoever was saying that was an idiot.

>all i'm saying is...playoffs. no excuses.

No, excuses. Reke/Gordon/Jrue is a nice trio of guards, but unless one of them breaks out in a big way this year, they don't have much to make a lot of headway out west. They could be good enough if AD makes another leap forward, but he needs better players around him.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
478. "i think AD a superstar...my judgement of him not clouded at all. "
In response to Reply # 477
Tue Aug-05-14 02:52 PM by Basaglia

  

          

i'm just not gonna be fair to him on this board...out of pure spite.

his TEAM needs to make the playoffs, no matter how injured or sorry they are.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20939 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 04:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
492. "HE set that bar. Read my sig."
In response to Reply # 477


  

          

Then had to eat it.

The Cavs set him up nice last year.

3 top 5 pick teammates, Andy, Bynum...then later Deng.

They was TRYING to win.

Then Dion went all "YALL BUDDY BALLIN'" on 'em and B tapped out.

lol

But let's not act like folx was just throwing Kyrie out there. Ba did it too. Now he gonna play jilted when he egged it on. smh

Don't believe the hype.

____________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44851 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 05:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
493. "man I just don't think I have the energy for this lol "
In response to Reply # 492


  

          

I forgot how grueling and tedious some of these OKS convos get. I think I'm gonna rest up on the Agenda Wars until the season starts lol.

-Sig-

“Why didn’t you do this in your own god damn country?"

-All Stah's view on undocumented immigrants wanting to be treated like human beings.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 05:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
495. "Too bad I ain't make sigs for Tyrus and Ben Wallace cysage "
In response to Reply # 492


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
472. "http://i.imgur.com/lrlYV13.gif"
In response to Reply # 459


          

http://i.imgur.com/lrlYV13.gif

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
474. "just playin the game, dogg. "
In response to Reply # 472


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
480. "Whatever makes it interesting for u bruh."
In response to Reply # 474


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
481. "why everybody scared? that's a fair standard and he gonna do it"
In response to Reply # 459


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
485. "Right."
In response to Reply # 481


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Kajun
Member since Jan 11th 2008
1007 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 04:52 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
491. "Shit even I agree."
In response to Reply # 481


  

          

If they are moderately healthy this year he's on notice, 50+ wins por favor. Not his fault the narrative on him has spun out of control, but it is what it is.

This is new NBA reality, and we're all just talking shit anyway.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
453. "I'd think the most nba analysts would have this top 5 I'd bet"
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

if they're assuming Rose is coming back healthy

Rose
CP3
Westbrook
Curry
Parker

and then the rest of the 10

Rondo
Lillard
Kyrie
Wall
Deron

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
460. "you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of practices..."
In response to Reply # 453


          

and a half a scrimmage.

Not after he's missed almost 2 seasons.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
479. "RE: you can't put Rose back in the top 5 based off of a handful of pract..."
In response to Reply # 460


          



That's why he said "assuming" that Rose comes back healthy....lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
482. "you're a fucking genius."
In response to Reply # 479


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
486. "even still, then Rondo then moves into the top 5"
In response to Reply # 460


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 05:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
496. "He's basically in the same boat with Rose, if you miss over half your..."
In response to Reply # 486


          

teams games for 2 consecutive seasons you aren't allow in the convo for top 5 anything

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:58 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
505. "Is that directly from the hypothetical OKS rankings rulebook?"
In response to Reply # 496


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 08:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
514. "Exactly."
In response to Reply # 505


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 04:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
489. "Kyrie is definitely NOT a top 5 point guard."
In response to Reply # 433


  

          

Chris Paul
Damian Lillard
Russ Westbrook
Rondo
Stephen Curry
John Wall
Isaiah Thomas Jr. (yeah, he's better as of right now)
Goran Dragic (um, yeah)
Tony Parker

He ain't even close to being top 5. He may take a jump this season, playing with Lebron, but that's obviously yet to be seen.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28846 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 07:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
501. "This is a good list."
In response to Reply # 489


  

          

>Chris Paul
>Damian Lillard
>Russ Westbrook
>Rondo
>Stephen Curry
>John Wall
>Isaiah Thomas Jr. (yeah, he's better as of right now)
>Goran Dragic (um, yeah)
>Tony Parker
>
>He ain't even close to being top 5. He may take a jump this
>season, playing with Lebron, but that's obviously yet to be
>seen.

I get where you're coming from with Isaiah Thomas. Obviously, I'm bias so of course I'll ride with Kyrie over Isaiah. However, objectively speaking, it's a push at worst.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
502. "RE: This is a good list."
In response to Reply # 501
Tue Aug-05-14 09:55 PM by BlassFemur

  

          

>
>I get where you're coming from with Isaiah Thomas. Obviously,
>I'm bias so of course I'll ride with Kyrie over Isaiah.
>However, objectively speaking, it's a push at worst.

Yeah, that one is pretty close. I honestly wouldn't argue anyone picking Irving over him, cause it is that close. Curious to see how both play with their new roles.

Oh, and don't forget about Mike Conley. That's close too. I think I'd actually say Conley is better right now by a hair. Kyrie really ain't done shit. Let's be honest. At least Mike helped carry that team to the playoffs in the west and took OKC to 7 games.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
503. "this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited"
In response to Reply # 502
Tue Aug-05-14 09:45 PM by Basaglia

  

          

so because kyrie had a down year, which was still better than lillard's and wall's, he ain't better than fuckin isaiah thomas?

see, now i'm frying that lil goomba ass nigga all year. i don't care what his role is. he better have stats and team success equal to kyrie.

for the record, no one will be better than kyrie this season. not one point guard.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
BlassFemur
Member since Mar 26th 2008
10309 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
504. "RE: this the type shit that's said on the humble and never revisited"
In response to Reply # 503


  

          

>Yeah, that one is pretty close. I honestly would argue anyone picking Irving over him, cause it is that close.<

I meant "I honestly wouldn't"...

They're close, so to me it can go either way. I would pick Thomas, myself.

https://banafrit.com/
http://middlebrainmedia.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
rob
Charter member
23210 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
507. "the kings wouldn't even pick thomas....like 3 times. "
In response to Reply # 504


  

          

he's good but cmon okp

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
38224 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:00 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
508. "http://tinyurl.com/nyqhs92"
In response to Reply # 503


          

http://tinyurl.com/nyqhs92

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18639 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 09:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
506. "Isiaah Thomas is not better"
In response to Reply # 489
Tue Aug-05-14 09:59 PM by DJR

  

          

And I like him, and have been FAR from a Kyrie cheerleader. But that's ridiculous.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Wed Aug-06-14 08:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
515. "that list is some bullshit, lol..."
In response to Reply # 489


          

>Chris Paul
>Damian Lillard - nope
>Russ Westbrook
>Rondo - been hurt for 2 years
>Stephen Curry
>John Wall - nope
>Isaiah Thomas Jr. (yeah, he's better as of right now) - hell naw, lol
>Goran Dragic (um, yeah) - nope
>Tony Parker - debateable

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 12:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
434. "Haven't you already "exposed him as a fraud" like 30 times?"
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
447. "alright so "
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

safe to say 60 wins and a finals appearance is an L for you?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
451. "you know the game he's playing. "
In response to Reply # 447


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
457. "Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same..."
In response to Reply # 447


          

Love and Kyrie wouldn't really be a shocker.

>safe to say 60 wins and a finals appearance is an L for you?

If Kevin Love puts up anywhere close to his Minnesota numbers on a good team that's a L for me, if he falls back and becomes a 3rd banana role player he's basically what I said he was back in 2010.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
483. "RE: Lebron won 66 games with Big Z and Mo Williams, doing the same..."
In response to Reply # 457


          

>Love and Kyrie wouldn't really be a shocker.
>
>>safe to say 60 wins and a finals appearance is an L for you?
>
>If Kevin Love puts up anywhere close to his Minnesota numbers
>on a good team that's a L for me, if he falls back and becomes
>a 3rd banana role player he's basically what I said he was
>back in 2010.


I don't get this...at all....lol

Even as someone who has got on Love more than enough I can't for the life me see where u r going with this....

You can't say Love is going to bitch about not getting his numbers and THEN in another post say u will judge him if he doesn't hit his numbers...

Dog...the only thing Love AND ANY PLAYER should be judged on is can that player help their team win...Because what happens if Love doesn't hit his numbers and they make a deep playoff team?

U can't play this game, homie...U will tie yourself up and knots...Just fry the fuck out of Love if he doesn't help the Cavs win...That would be good enough, right?

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
484. "My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat..."
In response to Reply # 483


          

padder on a bad team. If he's you're best player you don't have a very good team.

Check the archives.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
487. "I still think Love gets a bad rap as if he's been starring since day 1"
In response to Reply # 484


  

          

Dude didn't become a full time starter till his 3rd year, his 4th year was a lockout short season, his 5th he was hurt and only played 18 games, and his 6th (last year) he finally played his 2nd full season and hung tough in a fierce west. I think he's being undersold a bit, but is about to have a big impact in Cleveland a la Pau Gasol going to LA in '08. No he's not the defensive player Pau was of course, but his offensive skills I think compliment Lebron and Kyrie well.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 06:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
497. "RE: My position on him hasn't changed, he's not a star, he's been a stat..."
In response to Reply # 484


          

>padder on a bad team. If he's you're best player you don't
>have a very good team.
>
>Check the archives.


Nah...I know your MO, homie....It's all good...

In fact, I agree with u (to a point)...if Love is your best player u will not have a good playoff contending team (at least in the West...)

But that's the rub.

Love won't be called upon to be the best player on the Cavs...So that kind of deads that debate, right? I think it's now about judging Love on his ability to be an impact player on a team that will undoubtedly have a winning record...

So whether he score 24 and 12 or 18 and 9 means little if they are winning games...

Now let me stop talking about this Love dude. Fuck him and his team...

Bulls all day....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6426 posts
Tue Aug-05-14 10:21 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
510. "he's getting that 20 and 13"
In response to Reply # 457


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 01:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
521. "He was putting up 25/15 & not sniffing the post-season"
In response to Reply # 510


  

          

It's not the numbers, it's how he's getting them that's going to matter for them to win a chip.
-Is he efficient?
-Does he make his teammate better?
-Does he make an impact on the defensive end?
-Does he hustle?
or....Is he CHASING rebounds/cherry picking?


WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 12:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
517. "look at these niggas who don't know shit about basketball"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Sun Nov-02-14 12:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
518. "Love playing like Carlos Boozer in a Cavs uniform...winning!"
In response to Reply # 517


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Nov-06-14 12:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
522. "tonight: Big Love - 2 for 8, 14pts, Big Wig - 7 for 12, 17pts, #IJS"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 10:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
524. "Wig BETTER."
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
525. "Hell he doesn't even need to be BETTER"
In response to Reply # 524


  

          

I honestly haven't seen that much of Wiggins (cause who has time for that) but from the 2 or 3 games I've seen the T-Wolves he looks OK, not a surefire star but there's enough promise there.

But he was by far their #1 tradeable chip and they sent him for a guy who wasn't an obvious no brainer fit SMH... yes a guy who is all offense no D is going to thrive in a situation where he's going to get less shots and lean more on his defense. And those shots they do give him take away from the boards, his other strength. He might have been the most available big name option but I guarantee you there would have been a better fit available if they gave that #1 pick a more honest shopping around. When will people learn that there's only one ball and two sides of the court???

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
35261 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
526. "youre acting like guys cant be taught defense"
In response to Reply # 525


  

          

Rip Hamilton was one of the worst defensive 2 guards in the league until he came to play for Rick Carlisle. But Rick Carlisle was a strong voice who had won 50 games the year before and made defense a priority. The Cavs have a coach who most players seem to be indifferent to, regardless of whether or not he knows what he's doing.

On its face, Wiggins for Love was a no brainer. He just turned 26 and should have 2 more years of improvement in front of him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
MothershipConnection
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
7498 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
529. "Love lacks both willingness and ability at that end though"
In response to Reply # 526
Tue Dec-30-14 11:41 PM by MothershipConnection

  

          

It's one thing for a defensive minded coach to take a guy like Rip Hamilton or Ray Allen and turn them into adequate or better defensive players. Those guys absolutely had the length and athleticism to play D, they just needed the right situation (less offensive burden so they can expend more energy on defense) and right coach directing them to step it up.

It's another thing for guys who aren't super athletic or super long cause they have to expend extra effort and extra attention just to be adequate on that end. Take someone like JJ Redick and he spends extra energy to be in the right spot in that end and you know he's still just gonna get beat in some matchups. And that's a guy who's bought into being a role player. Or better example, for bigs a Zach Randolph... he's still a defensive liability against the wrong matchups but he'll at least take something out of you regardless cause he'll beat you up.

Take someone like Love though who thinks he's a star and has been told he's by everyone that he's a star and then tell him "Alright we want you to score 17 points instead of 25 points and get your kicks beating the shit out of people on the other end but you'll still probably be embarrassed in the wrong matchups anyway..." You think the human layup line wants any of that? Hell no what makes you think that? It probably took a full year and a half for Bosh to buy into that and he was always a more gifted/willing defender.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Wed Dec-31-14 03:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
530. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 529


  

          

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Dec-30-14 11:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
528. "Bosh BETTER"
In response to Reply # 524


  

          

Not all about offensive stats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
19788 posts
Wed Jun-17-15 12:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
531. "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! "
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jun-17-15 12:12 AM by mtbatol

          

EDIT: MOAR WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!! (/^O^)/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #102658 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com