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Subject: "RE: What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?" Previous topic | Next topic
A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
3053 posts
Fri Nov-17-17 11:08 AM

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59. "RE: What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?"
In response to In response to 58


          

>Pioneered in the 1950s by musicians breaking the rules of jazz
>and composition, free improvisation is still as difficult –
>and potentially transcendent – as it ever was. A Guardian
>documentary takes you inside its world

to me it's not difficult. in fact, it's very simple and direct. you will feel it instantly. that is to say if the performance is open and including.

>“There are people that hear it once and think: never
>again!” says Evan Parker of free improvisation, a musical
>style that some might compare to a jazz band falling down the
>stairs – and others find transcendental. “Then there are
>people who hear it once and say, ‘My god, what was that?’
>But they creep back, because there’s something that’s
>connected for them. There’s a worldview involved that
>touches people.”

yes, some people react this way but to me it's not important if you like/not like it, or if you feel that you would or wouldn't go to a improv concert again. the experience then and there is the thing. what happens after is not important. also, every improv concert is not the same. for starters, they can sound wildly different from each other and also i would say that the intent of the musicians can vary a lot, and that shows in the music and the experience of listening.

the woldview thing. yeah, maybe for the most part.

>None of this is to say that the music is elitist – in fact
>it represents the absolute rejection of the elite. The origins
>are disputed, but at some point in the late 1950s jazz players
>and modern composers who were repelled by the codification
>conservatism of their peers and broke free. There is no
>manifesto, no union or club you can join, just a shared
>worldview and an acceptance that no one is going to get rich
>from it. The claims of non-hierarchical band structures are
>not always borne out – you can’t deny the seniority of
>experience, or the person who organised the gig – but this
>is as close as you’re going to get to a music that reflects
>socialist values.

about the rejection of the elite. yeah, definitely back in the days but nowadays people choose to play so called free improv for different reasons and have different intent in doing so.

wynton and crouch are elitist but there definitely are elitist among improv musicians now too.

in an ideal session there is no hierarchy at all but i think that rarely is the case. even though there is no outspoken hierarchy (or more of an authority i would say), it occurs while the performance is happening.

i can try and explain it better if you want. i have some experience in this.

>There are key recordings – Parker’s Topography of the
>Lungs, AMM’s AMMMusic – but for many of the musicians, the
>process of making the music is as important as the results.
>This creates a suspicion that free improvisation is simply
>music for musicians, that an audience can never get close to
>it in the same way a performer can. There is some truth in
>this. Occasionally at live shows, you feel as if you’ve
>intruded on someone’s private space, or that you’re
>watching scientists at work in the lab. But if you put the
>effort in and offer yourself to it, the shock you might feel
>at first will recede, and, as Parker says, you’ll creep
>back.

i think the only part of this paragraph that is parkers is "you'll creep back", the rest is the writer of the article. it's weird that he says that musicians feel that the result is important. i think it's mostly not the case.

about the music for musicians. i think it often becomes that due to the performance not being open and including as i mentioned before. also, musicians playing strictly from their ego. if it is open, inclusive and non authoritarian, the listener is exectly as much of a part of the creation as the musician.

about the intruding into someone's space, i don't know where he gets that. maybe the writer experienced that.

  

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Avant-garde jazz [View all] , hip bopper, Thu Oct-26-17 09:32 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
Sonny Sharrock - Black Woman
Oct 26th 2017
1
This shit is straight fire!!!!!!
Oct 26th 2017
2
      ^^^Ditto, this is FLAMES n/m
Dec 26th 2017
75
RE: Avant-garde jazz
Oct 26th 2017
3
nice list dude! :-)
Oct 27th 2017
4
      Thanks!
Oct 27th 2017
6
           RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
9
                RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
12
                     RE: Thanks!
Oct 28th 2017
13
                          wow. I missed that thread
Oct 28th 2017
16
Don Cherry
Oct 27th 2017
5
Some cool jams:
Oct 27th 2017
7
another nice list! dubble thumbs up. :-)
Oct 28th 2017
10
han bennink playing tabla! wtf!? awesome! haha
Oct 28th 2017
11
      Yup!
Oct 28th 2017
14
RE: Avant-garde jazz
Oct 28th 2017
8
Matthew Shipp
Oct 28th 2017
15
Mazz Swift
Oct 28th 2017
17
Art Ensemble of Chicago
Oct 29th 2017
18
Jon Bap "Yesterday's Homily"
Oct 29th 2017
19
Dope
Oct 29th 2017
20
Have you guys ever given this Coltrane record a listen?
Nov 01st 2017
21
a few that maybe you guys haven't heard.
Nov 05th 2017
22
RE: a few that maybe you guys haven't heard.
Nov 05th 2017
24
Have you heard this record?
Nov 12th 2017
38
      RE: Have you heard this record?
Nov 13th 2017
39
It is the awesome n/m
Nov 05th 2017
23
Ivo Perelman
Nov 06th 2017
25
I LOVE YOU PEOPLE I LOVE THIS PLACE
Nov 06th 2017
26
Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Nov 06th 2017
27
good stuff, thanks!
Nov 12th 2017
36
      Not a problem
Nov 12th 2017
37
more
Nov 07th 2017
28
Man I was going to post Marion next... lol
Nov 07th 2017
30
      nice. hehe
Nov 08th 2017
32
           Most definitely
Nov 08th 2017
33
gotta post some coltrane. :-)
Nov 07th 2017
29
Eddie Gale
Nov 07th 2017
31
Mahavishnu Orchestra & Mahavishnu John McLaughlin
Nov 08th 2017
34
Herbie Hancock Mwandishi
Nov 11th 2017
35
evan parker/derek bailey/han bennink - the topography of the lungs
Nov 14th 2017
40
Some new blood: Christian Scott
Nov 14th 2017
41
RE: Some new blood: Christian Scott
Nov 14th 2017
42
      How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?
Nov 15th 2017
44
           RE: How do you feel about Esperanza Spalding's latest album?
Nov 15th 2017
46
           I loved this album
Nov 15th 2017
56
Chick Corea - Return to Forever
Nov 14th 2017
43
Art Ensemble of Chicago (again)
Nov 15th 2017
45
more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude
Nov 15th 2017
47
RE: more new blood: tyshawn sorey - verisimilitude
Nov 15th 2017
48
yup.
Nov 15th 2017
50
Nice! I can definitely hear the Xenakis influence
Nov 15th 2017
52
oh man...
Feb 11th 2018
87
Steve Lehman
Nov 15th 2017
49
love that octet record.
Nov 15th 2017
51
Yeah great stuff
Nov 15th 2017
54
thanks for this
Dec 30th 2017
81
Jon Benjamin's Jazz Dare Devil
Nov 15th 2017
53
Frank Lowe
Nov 15th 2017
55
Free improvisation: still the ultimate in underground music? (swipe)
Nov 16th 2017
57
What do you agree with... and what don’t you agree with?
Nov 16th 2017
58
     
           Good points
Nov 17th 2017
62
                i don't know.
Nov 18th 2017
63
henry threadgill sextett - theme from thomas cole
Nov 17th 2017
60
Makaya McCraven - Highly Rare
Nov 17th 2017
61
Corea, Holland, Altschul
Nov 21st 2017
64
Sun Ra - A Joyful Noise
Nov 24th 2017
65
Sun Ra - I Roam the Cosmos
Nov 28th 2017
66
two albums with sven-åke johansson
Nov 30th 2017
67
Charles Mingus
Dec 10th 2017
68
Milford Graves Full Mantis Feature Film
Dec 22nd 2017
69
I think I’m gonna pledge to this!!!!
Dec 22nd 2017
70
      great!
Dec 23rd 2017
71
           Since you mentioned him here you go!!!!!!!!
Dec 23rd 2017
72
                nice!
Dec 25th 2017
73
Jack DeJohnette belongs in this discussion wtf??!
Dec 26th 2017
74
I will put something up of his eventually.
Dec 26th 2017
76
Shit my bad (here some lainks)
Dec 26th 2017
77
      I find these two recordings by him to be very interesting...
Dec 26th 2017
78
RE: Jack DeJohnette belongs in this discussion wtf??!
Dec 27th 2017
79
Here’s a few more
Dec 28th 2017
80
Keith Jarrett - No End
Jan 02nd 2018
82
Richard Davis - Epistrophy
Jan 02nd 2018
83
Dope
Jan 02nd 2018
84
Jaimie Branch - Fly or Die
Jan 02nd 2018
85
Sam Rivers
Jan 14th 2018
86
It’s like I’ve died and gone to heaven
Apr 28th 2018
88
Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity
Jul 05th 2018
89
Matthew Shipp - SAMA
Jul 13th 2018
90
Andromeda Mega Express Orchestra
Sep 19th 2018
91
McCoy Tyner - Enlightenment
Sep 20th 2018
92
Sun Ra - The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra
Sep 21st 2018
93
Exploding Star Orchestra - Stars Have Shapes
Sep 22nd 2018
94
Bill Dixon with Exploding Star Orchestra
Sep 23rd 2018
95
Fred Anderson & Hamid Drake
Sep 25th 2018
96
Irreversible Entanglements
Oct 02nd 2018
97
Joe Henderson - Barcelona
Oct 02nd 2018
98

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