Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #37650

Subject: "RE: Insider reqest on Gammons reaction?" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28533 posts
Wed Mar-08-06 01:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "RE: Insider reqest on Gammons reaction?"
In response to In response to 152


  

          

Bonds embodies best, worst of eraposted: Wednesday, March 8, 2006

In Orlando, Phoenix and San Juan, baseball has begun its celebration of the diversity of baseball cultures called the World Baseball Classic. In spring training camps, there are an unprecedented number of teams that have the right to dream of playing in October. In Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Grady Sizemore, Johan Santana, Roy Oswalt, et al, there is a new generation of superstars, while the faces of the game have turned from Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa to Derek Jeter, David Ortiz and Pujols, faces that represent the best and the brightest.

It is almost as if everyone outside San Francisco is waiting for The Bonds Show to be over. There is no question that the latest revelations in the new book by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams could be devastating to any chance that Bonds had to pass Babe Ruth and exit with dignity. This is not a kiss-and-tell book. Fainaru-Wada and Williams earned the reputation of the Woodward and Bernstein of this generation (Mark and his brother, Steve Fainaru, are two of the best journalists of the last 20 years). And while the Jose Canseco book had a great deal that deserved our attention -- despite its mistakes and self-absorption -- Bonds faces a mountain of evidence, not to mention potential grand jury problems.


At the ESPN event at Disney World March 3-5, we did four "Baseball Tonight" shows, three in a studio and one before an outdoor stage audience. Each time, when we got to the Bonds subject, Karl Ravech asked the audience, "As Barry Bonds approaches Babe Ruth, will you be cheering for him?"



Every time, there was an overwhelming crescendo of boos.



It will be years before the Steroid Era will be put in its historical perspective. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro will have to endure intense scrutiny about their Hall of Fame legitimacy, as we learn how large a percentage of players used performance-enhancing drugs. Likely, we will learn that the percentage was far greater than so many of us thought. The revelation might lead many to accept these players as Hall of Famers because they were the best players during a period in which steroids were a major part of the baseball culture, just as Canseco and Ken Caminiti told us.



If Fainaru-Wada and Williams are right about the Bonds steroid timeline, this is a sad way for Bonds' career to end. Before 1998, he was already a Hall of Famer, one of the 20 best players of all time. He had three MVPs and should have had a fourth. He was the best modern-day defensive left fielder. His workout habits were legendary back in 1993 after he won his third MVP award.



Admittedly, the enhancers were not illegal in the baseball workplace and were a part of the workplace's culture, but for such an intelligent, talented man to make the alleged decision that he had to have more because McGwire and Sosa had it is the sort of greed that led to the demise of Richard Nixon and former Enron CEO Ken Lay, and Americans have little pity for a fall based on greed.



In many ways, baseball fans have already put Bonds in their rearview mirror. Bud Selig stays awake at night hoping that if Bonds does catch Ruth, he will do it in San Francisco or face the black eye of having one of sports' great achievements greeted with a shower of boos. If he passes Aaron, rest assured, the greatest record in sports will no longer be the career home run champion.



Oh, sure, there are going to be players who get the best in designer drugs to beat the testing system -- which isn't foolproof, by any stretch -- but baseball has endured the steroids scandal and moved on from the era that so many of its administrators allowed to mushroom.



Whether he's ever found guilty by anyone but the court of public opinion, Bonds, the best player of his era, now stands as the monument to the worst of the era. Selig has to pray that if Bonds hits home runs No. 715 and 716, he does it in San Francisco against the Rockies in a 10:05 p.m. ET start with three rain delays.

And as far as 75-90 percent of fans are concerned, knowing he may retire at the end of the season, every time a Bonds story comes on "SportsCenter," it might as well be accompanied by Green Day's "Wake Me Up When September Ends."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


• Alfonso Soriano insists he will not move to the outfield when the WBC is over. The Nationals are counting on his eventually relenting because he has no choice -- he is virtually untradable, and he won't sit on the bench in his free-agent walk year.


"They never even talked to me; they just made the trade and announced I am moving," says Soriano. "Am I embarrassed? Yes. They tried to corner me. Now when I come back, how can I learn to play the position in a week or 10 days? I've played four games in my life in left field. How am I going to do at a position I haven't played?"


• David Ortiz on the difference between the Caribbean Series and the WBC: "There's not any comparison. In the Caribbean Series, the winning team from each country's winter ball picks up some more players, and you play for your country, but this is much bigger, much more important. This is the world, with the U.S., Japan, everyone. For the Dominicans to win this with the U.S. in it would be the biggest thing for Dominican baseball."


Watching Ortiz, Miguel Tejada, Albert Pujols, et al interact led to the observation that the Dominican team is closer than most regular-season teams. "It is," says Ortiz. "We are all close friends. We grew up together, we hang out together in the winter. This is as close a group as you will ever find."


• Excuse me for being repetitious, but Manny Acta should be managing in the major leagues.


• Curiously, Victor Martinez might be the best catcher in the major leagues right now, but he is DH-ing and batting seventh for Venezuela, with Ramon Hernandez catching and hitting in the five-hole. "I don't mind; I'm just happy to play," says Martinez, who has grown into a leader on the Indians. And, by the way, he led all major-league catchers in average, on-base and slugging percentage, and RBI last season.


• What awes so many of the young players on the Dominican team is how seriously Pujols takes every swing in BP. "There is no time to fool around when you practice," says Pujols. "Every swing has a purpose, and I try to never get away from that. It's hard enough hitting a 95-mile-an-hour fastball. So habits are important."


Jim Leyland was in spring training for four years with Pujols. "He has the best work ethic I have ever been around," says Leyland. "I've never seen a player more dedicated or serious."


• The buzz on the Dominican team has been about young Twins lefty Francisco Liriano. "He hit 98 the other day," says Acta. "He may be special right away. Imagine having him and Santana on the same staff."


---------------------------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy


CNNSI reports: damning evidence of Bonds and STEROIDS [View all] , smutsboy, Tue Mar-07-06 01:32 PM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
The Documentation
Mar 07th 2006
1
I fidn the circumstantial evidence stuff interesting
Mar 07th 2006
5
tell all books
Mar 07th 2006
2
Lets not insert good sense so early in this post. Please.
Mar 07th 2006
3
Jermain Jackson wrote the Introduction
Mar 07th 2006
9
He used illegal steroids
Mar 07th 2006
10
co-sign
Mar 07th 2006
13
why do you care if they're being honest?
Mar 07th 2006
17
      i ain't playing that semantics game
Mar 07th 2006
42
      but taking creatine is cool?
Mar 07th 2006
123
           ya know?
Mar 08th 2006
144
           you have no idea where I draw the line
Mar 08th 2006
151
                at color
Mar 08th 2006
155
                of course i have no idea
Mar 08th 2006
161
      For real, if players really cared about winning
Mar 07th 2006
46
           ha! It's true, that's the same line of thinking.
Mar 07th 2006
65
i mean i fail to see the distinction
Mar 07th 2006
i mean i fail to see the distinction
Mar 07th 2006
14
That's not technically true
Mar 07th 2006
21
      good talk
Mar 07th 2006
23
He's Blaaaaaaack
Mar 07th 2006
4
why is he so huge now then?
Mar 07th 2006
6
No homo.
Mar 07th 2006
8
wtf?
Mar 07th 2006
11
who say's he's off?
Mar 07th 2006
16
For real, Palimero didn't quit because of the testing
Mar 07th 2006
50
the 2 guys who "shrank" did so because of
Mar 07th 2006
18
good question
Mar 07th 2006
39
eyesight better?> hmmm
Mar 07th 2006
7
I tried explaining to some folks that steroids/HGH can improve eye-sight
Mar 07th 2006
113
uh oh lol.
Mar 07th 2006
12
This debate will be fruitless becase
Mar 07th 2006
15
^^^The Realest Talk^^^
Mar 07th 2006
19
steroids cause kidney failure?
Mar 07th 2006
20
      Liver failure, my bad.
Mar 07th 2006
22
           commensurate
Mar 07th 2006
26
           typing fast; thanks.
Mar 07th 2006
30
           RE: Liver failure, my bad.
Mar 07th 2006
75
IT WASN'T AGAINST THE RULES!!!
Mar 07th 2006
24
yes it was, stop copping pleas
Mar 07th 2006
27
it's not "stated in the rules" explicitly...but neither is
Mar 07th 2006
32
the "story" ain't about baseball's shitty ass policies
Mar 07th 2006
38
not saying a lot of this isn't true but it seems like a major source of....
Mar 07th 2006
25
Here's something else that makes me a bit shaky about this:
Mar 07th 2006
31
uh, yeah they did
Mar 07th 2006
34
Not to this extent, they haven't
Mar 07th 2006
43
those are very reasonable observations
Mar 07th 2006
35
I suspect there's a lesson in there about mistresses
Mar 07th 2006
33
      for some of us famous people, this isn't an option
Mar 07th 2006
37
           My sympathies...
Mar 07th 2006
40
                i need a good lawyer
Mar 07th 2006
53
So, "reporters" gathered "info" from some "sources"...
Mar 07th 2006
28
to the Bonds apologists....Do y'all have TVs in your house???
Mar 07th 2006
29
^^^serious post game
Mar 07th 2006
36
WOW!! Coolidge gets gully on them thar bleeding hearts.
Mar 07th 2006
45
^^Coming from a Dodger fan. lol!!
Mar 07th 2006
56
that really doesn't matter...that rivalry
Mar 07th 2006
79
      Come on man, you know you bleed that Dodger blue....
Mar 07th 2006
90
           naw...not at all..
Mar 07th 2006
96
                Man, Coolidge, cool off. lol!!
Mar 07th 2006
103
                     I put the cool in Coolidge..lol.
Mar 07th 2006
107
                          RE: I put the cool in Coolidge..lol.
Mar 07th 2006
112
The purest Bonds apologists don't even deny he used 'roids.
Mar 07th 2006
58
And there u have it. he didn't even need roids
Mar 07th 2006
71
if he didn't need them...where are the 70 HR seasons
Mar 07th 2006
80
      did u read what I wrote?
Mar 07th 2006
92
      yes I did...
Mar 07th 2006
97
      where are hank aaron's 70 HR season, you dumb ass nigga?
Mar 08th 2006
157
           755
Mar 08th 2006
158
                and guess what...barry gonna have 756 one day. cry about it
Mar 08th 2006
159
                HAHA
Mar 08th 2006
165
RE: The purest Bonds apologists don't even deny he used 'roids.
Mar 07th 2006
81
Lol. You also proved my point about these boards being racist.
Mar 07th 2006
88
      we can talk about you some other time
Mar 07th 2006
93
           Lol. I'm glad you agree.
Mar 07th 2006
100
RE: The purest Bonds apologists don't even deny he used 'roids.
Mar 07th 2006
91
><
Mar 08th 2006
137
Very well said, Coolidge
Mar 08th 2006
147
RE: The purest Bonds apologists don't even deny he used 'roids.
Mar 07th 2006
122
Everyone that gains muscular bodyweight over a period of time isn't...
Mar 07th 2006
76
but the chances that it would be related to steroids would
Mar 07th 2006
78
      some of that may be true but I'm just disputing the whole theory of...
Mar 07th 2006
82
           this is one of many, many suspect parts of the Bonds saga
Mar 07th 2006
85
           RE: some of that may be true but I'm just disputing the whole theory of....
Mar 07th 2006
98
listen to this man please.....
Mar 07th 2006
95
AMEN!!!
Mar 08th 2006
142
those who don't care: rally here
Mar 07th 2006
41
I don't care...
Mar 07th 2006
44
I don't care either
Mar 07th 2006
47
this is honesty.
Mar 07th 2006
49
RE: this is honesty.
Mar 07th 2006
64
Oh kiss my ass
Mar 07th 2006
52
I dont care
Mar 07th 2006
54
I hate Giambi equally.
Mar 07th 2006
57
Lol. If O_E had made this post, no one would take it seriously.
Mar 07th 2006
60
yeah, race is definitely the reason...
Mar 07th 2006
62
no one should take me seriously
Mar 07th 2006
67
which should make OE be that much more confused
Mar 07th 2006
68
it is the reason.
Mar 08th 2006
154
Actually, Shells making it makes it look even more outlandish
Mar 07th 2006
66
just stop
Mar 07th 2006
70
You're right, it's always been about Bonds.
Mar 07th 2006
126
^^^^ ether
Mar 08th 2006
169
      McGuire hasn't begged for it the way Bonds has
Mar 09th 2006
172
Lol. You continue to prove my point.
Mar 07th 2006
87
      RE: Lol. You continue to prove my point.
Mar 07th 2006
125
This read like a high school girl mad 'cause she didn't win prom queen
Mar 07th 2006
94
      I want nothing more than to be loved by white Okayplayers.
Mar 07th 2006
102
           RE: I want nothing more than to be loved by white Okayplayers.
Mar 07th 2006
105
           Lol. I'm glad we're on the same page.
Mar 07th 2006
111
                That all seemed like old hat
Mar 07th 2006
115
                     Lol. The cop-out attempt is much appreciated.
Mar 07th 2006
124
                          Remembering the name of a FF team that lasted less than a week.
Mar 07th 2006
128
           i'm more of a sorority girl than anything else
Mar 07th 2006
106
                You're a member of Delta Sigma Theta, methinks.
Mar 07th 2006
109
yup
Mar 07th 2006
110
I got four words for all you apologists
Mar 07th 2006
48
Barry Bonds is a hero
Mar 07th 2006
59
Somewhere, Pedro Gomez is crying tears of joy
Mar 07th 2006
51
i was just comin with this
Mar 07th 2006
61
      Jim Grey/Tyson - Jim Grey/Kobe n/m
Mar 07th 2006
72
in other breaking news water is wet. who gives a fuck?!?!
Mar 07th 2006
55
This is that Superhead book mixed with a newspaper
Mar 07th 2006
63
lololol
Mar 07th 2006
69
My friend
Mar 07th 2006
74
RE: on the real, i work at a newspaper
Mar 07th 2006
77
yeah, blame the messenger!
Mar 07th 2006
83
On the real, you'd have to have written for a newspaper...
Mar 07th 2006
89
      that's funny...
Mar 07th 2006
129
           I meant Watergate-era Woodward & Bernstein
Mar 07th 2006
133
                RE: I meant Watergate-era Woodward & Bernstein
Mar 07th 2006
134
Do the words "slander" and "libel" mean anything to you?
Mar 08th 2006
138
they are still accountable and wanted to publish earlier
Mar 08th 2006
141
Yeah, but you still gotta hit the ball.
Mar 07th 2006
73
Yup
Mar 07th 2006
86
      It really is.
Mar 07th 2006
108
           Griffey's is prettier...
Mar 07th 2006
116
                griffey's is more aesthetically pleasing
Mar 07th 2006
127
                     I'm just saying, in this case...
Mar 07th 2006
130
                          nah i agree with you
Mar 07th 2006
131
                               Bonds' swing is pure economy of motion.
Mar 08th 2006
145
                                    this is a better written
Mar 08th 2006
162
It really didnt say anything new
Mar 07th 2006
84
alot of misinformation about roids in that swipe
Mar 07th 2006
99
In other news, water is wet.
Mar 07th 2006
101
basically
Mar 07th 2006
104
and JJ sucks.
Mar 07th 2006
114
post #55. damn
Mar 08th 2006
140
SWAGGER JACKER
Mar 08th 2006
149
Reading over this thread, I'd say Warren and smutsboy are the MVPs
Mar 07th 2006
117
Barry is still the Greatest,nothing is Proved
Mar 07th 2006
118
Is Barry the sports version of RKelly for you?
Mar 07th 2006
120
      RE: Is Barry the sports version of RKelly for you?
Mar 07th 2006
121
      both Dominate there Fields
Mar 07th 2006
135
and what have we learned from this?
Mar 07th 2006
119
lol. great post.
Mar 07th 2006
132
you saw Crash!
Mar 07th 2006
136
      lol
Mar 08th 2006
139
anybody with common sense knows this
Mar 08th 2006
143
yo Bonds is crazy
Mar 08th 2006
146
not quite
Mar 08th 2006
150
for real that shit is so basic
Mar 08th 2006
153
I love how the same media that turns a blind eye to FACTS
Mar 08th 2006
148
Insider reqest on Gammons reaction?
Mar 08th 2006
152
      gammons lets himself and many others off the hook
Mar 08th 2006
163
He has to worry about a perjury charge
Mar 08th 2006
160
please...is palmeiro in jail? i WISH barry would get charged
Mar 08th 2006
164
      HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA @ Barry Bonds
Mar 08th 2006
166
      Palmeiro has an out in that he has not been accused of
Mar 08th 2006
167
           dumb ass nigga, did you see raphy raise his hand before congress?
Mar 08th 2006
168
           no
Mar 09th 2006
170
why didnt barry have to testify in front of congress?
Mar 09th 2006
171
because of what he might say
Mar 09th 2006
173
Yessir
Mar 10th 2006
174
I think both he and Giambi did not testify
Mar 10th 2006
179
Nothing new and too many unamed sources
Mar 10th 2006
175
lol. that's not good.
Mar 10th 2006
176
      yet, you were prolly oooing and ahhhing in 98 like the other crackas
Mar 10th 2006
177
           how dumb were people not to recognize that race for what it was?
Mar 10th 2006
178

Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #37650 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com