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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2728288

Subject: "NBA: Is 20/10 still the baseline for an elite player?" Previous topic | Next topic
Cocobrotha2
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Wed Dec-23-20 03:59 PM

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"NBA: Is 20/10 still the baseline for an elite player?"


          

For lottery picks, they used to say “You’ll be able pencil him in for at least 20 pts and 10 rebounds a game”. That was the baseline for a perennial all star.

With the emphasis on shooting now, it’s all shooting percentage based, right? If a kid can shoot 38/45/85 (3pt/FG/FT), he’s probably gonna be somebody?

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
there are different types of shooters...
Dec 23rd 2020
1
wth positions faded out, the value of 10 rebounds vs 10 assists
Dec 25th 2020
2
Fewer big men means fewer 20/10 seasons.
Dec 25th 2020
3
All of that is ancient and dead.
Dec 25th 2020
4
it's gotta be shooting (w/those percentages) and something else
Dec 26th 2020
5
The NBA has basically evolved into 3 types of players and they all...
Dec 26th 2020
6

ThaTruth
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Wed Dec-23-20 04:15 PM

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1. "there are different types of shooters..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>For lottery picks, they used to say “You’ll be able
>pencil him in for at least 20 pts and 10 rebounds a game”.
>That was the baseline for a perennial all star.
>
>With the emphasis on shooting now, it’s all shooting
>percentage based, right? If a kid can shoot 38/45/85
>(3pt/FG/FT), he’s probably gonna be somebody?

some guys are strictly spot-up shooters, some guys can shoot off the bounce, the elite guys can do both. The numbers from college to the NBA don't always translate because the games are so different.

________________________________________
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Rjcc
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Fri Dec-25-20 03:59 AM

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2. "wth positions faded out, the value of 10 rebounds vs 10 assists"
In response to Reply # 0


          

is....hard to pinpoint.

but now more than ever, anyone on the court is capable of going for 20 if the offense runs through them

so it's really about how easily you can get 20 and how many possessions that would eat up, I think

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Fri Dec-25-20 11:59 AM

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3. "Fewer big men means fewer 20/10 seasons."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-25-20 11:59 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

To this day, most of the guys getting 10 boards a game are guys in drop coverage defense who only hang out near the rim on both sides— Gobert, Whiteside, Tristan Thompson, Capela, Jordan, Jonas, etc. There are very few guys who do more for your team who also get 10 boards a game— last year Giannis and Bam were the only ones who’d roam more on defense and still get ten boards.

So 20/10 is definitely not something you can pencil in even the best lotto big men to do anymore, because the offense likely doesn’t run through them, and they likely can’t play as many minutes in a stretched-out, perimeter-oriented game.

Elite means something different today. Efficiency matters, diversity of skills matters.

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri Dec-25-20 01:05 PM

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4. "All of that is ancient and dead."
In response to Reply # 0


          

It’s more about abilities than benchmark averages.

Can he 3 and D, and can he guard and play multiple positions and spread the floor?

A player who can play and guard 1-5 ( like a Scottie Pippen) is more valuable than a player who can get 20/10, but can’t play multiple positions or defend well.

In this day and age, almost every position or player is required to be able to hit the 3 and play some defense.

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Sat Dec-26-20 03:25 PM

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5. "it's gotta be shooting (w/those percentages) and something else"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like defense, assists (especially), and more of the things you need to actually see on film. because "stat padding turdery" (© RandomFact) runs rampant in this age of basketball.

Trae Young is on the road to being elite because he can dominate the stat sheets BUT he gives you lowkey Steph behind the arc. it isn't just the percentages but what you see on the court.

You just know Luka is elite because of how he gets his numbers.

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Dec-26-20 07:29 PM

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6. "The NBA has basically evolved into 3 types of players and they all..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

revolve around shooting. You have your elite guard that can shoot and do everything else, you have "3&D" wings and you have "bigs" who are "rim-protectors" and the elite players in this category can step out and hit 3's and switch out on smaller players on D like Giannis, AD, Bam and Jokic although he struggles on the D side.

Of course you have your freaks like Bron, Kahwi, Luka & Zion who don't really fit a category. I feel like everyone is ready to crown Luka but I feel he needs to step it up on the defensive end and get his team to a top 4 seed on the west before he gets any MVP trophies.

I remember one of the last "20&10" guys the board argued about was Thomas Robinson. He never lived up to the hype. A lot of people that excelled as a undersized 4 "tweeners" in college don't have that same success in the pros. They don't have the length to excel at the 4 nor the lateral quickness to consistently stay with wing players. Everyone always wants to bring up Barkley but he had freak athleticism that we haven't seen until Zion. Blake Griffin was an undersized 4 that excelled early on because he had elite athleticism until injuries took that athleticism away and he basically had to re-invent himself. Kind of the same with Kevin Love who most people don't think of as a great athlete because he wasn't a high jumper but was an elite quick jumper until injuries took a toll on him.

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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