Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Sports topic #2714901

Subject: "ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time" Previous topic | Next topic
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-15-20 11:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time"


          

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

10: Shaq
9: Kobe
8: Duncan
7: Bird
6: Wilt
5: Magic
4: Russell
3: Kareem
2: LBJ
1: MJ

I think they got the top 3 correct (regardless of how you rank) - not sure I'd rate Russell ahead of Wilt - and you could make a case for Hakeem being in this mix as well. I also think Durant is knocking on that top 10 door as well if he continues on his trajectory.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
It feels like this is close to a consensus top 3.
May 15th 2020
1
It really has developed into a strong consensus
May 15th 2020
4
      I just don't see how Wilt gets left out there
May 24th 2020
117
           To me the elevation of Russell above Wilt is comical
May 24th 2020
118
           Definitely agree with you on Wilt
May 27th 2020
119
lol
May 15th 2020
2
RE: ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time
May 15th 2020
3
I agree w/ you on Hakeem
May 15th 2020
5
      Shaq was better that Duncan AND Hakeem and it’s not really close lol
May 15th 2020
6
      So when Shaq got destoryed by Hakeem in the NBA finals
May 15th 2020
7
      that was young Shaq, 5 years before his peak
May 15th 2020
9
           and before Kobe
May 15th 2020
10
           Duncan in ‘03. He was the lone all-star for a 3-4 year stretch.
May 23rd 2020
111
           RE: that was young Shaq, 5 years before his peak
May 15th 2020
14
                Dream was great, but so was Shaq.
May 16th 2020
15
                     RE: Dream was great, but so was Shaq.
May 16th 2020
17
      I def think Shaq should get some more love
May 15th 2020
12
           The issue with Shaq is that he was dominant but inconsistent
May 15th 2020
13
                And Shaq’s “dominance” is questionable to me...
May 18th 2020
34
                     on basketball court for people that actually saw him play in his prime.....
May 19th 2020
52
                          ^
May 19th 2020
55
                          LOL... I watched him play just like you did.
May 19th 2020
56
                               when he got the ball in the paint you either fouled him or got dunked on...
May 19th 2020
61
                                    Fair points...
May 19th 2020
63
                                    so are you trying to say Shaq wasn't a great defensive player?
May 20th 2020
66
                                         He played great defense but I’m not, at all, giving him MDE.
May 21st 2020
79
                                              Head to head in the playoffs Shaq has dominated Tim Duncan...
May 23rd 2020
112
                                    LOL
May 19th 2020
64
      I LOVED those Rocket teams, and matchups reign supreme, but....
May 15th 2020
8
           Would've been *the* definitive Finals matchup of the 90's
May 15th 2020
11
           Lakers beat the Kings b/c of a corrupt referee tho.
May 16th 2020
16
lolz @ Russell getting fried on twitter
May 16th 2020
18
lol They're not wrong though.
May 16th 2020
19
      He played against the best of his time tho
May 16th 2020
20
           True indeed.
May 16th 2020
21
           Especially silly since few of those people are ragging on Wilt at 6.
May 17th 2020
23
                It’s not just the era.
May 17th 2020
24
                RE: It’s not just the era.
May 17th 2020
27
                What is the arbitrary cutoff?
May 17th 2020
25
Duncan is no worse than 5. Probably 4.
May 17th 2020
22
Top 3 All-time, maybe GOAT
May 17th 2020
30
Hakeem made Shaq look like a child. FOH
May 17th 2020
26
Surprisingly Kobe's passing hasn't lionized his greatness
May 17th 2020
28
Kobe is the 2nd best SG ever. Why wouldn’t he be in the top 10?
May 17th 2020
31
ESPN messed up. KAREEM is the best to ever do it.
May 17th 2020
29
Say it again
May 17th 2020
32
look at that gap in between finals MVPs
May 18th 2020
37
RE: look at that gap in between finals MVPs
May 18th 2020
42
      Longevity. Ain’t his fault that MJ quit twice before quitting a third.
May 18th 2020
49
           Agreed on that point about longevity.
May 19th 2020
54
                Fair points...
May 19th 2020
57
LOL. FOH. It's MJ.
May 18th 2020
44
      Because you bought his shoes and drank Gatorade?
May 18th 2020
50
           BECAUSE, if MJ played Kareem, MJ would BUST HIS ASS.
May 21st 2020
75
                You got it...
May 21st 2020
80
The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too.
May 18th 2020
33
RE: The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too.
May 18th 2020
35
RE: The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too.
May 18th 2020
40
Robertson
May 18th 2020
41
      my bad it was early lol
May 18th 2020
43
Has anyone EVER won back to bck rings with a weaker cast than Kobe?
May 18th 2020
36
Maybe Hakeem?
May 18th 2020
47
it's Hakeem's Rockets by a mile. n/m
May 18th 2020
48
Maybe Hakeem by a nose...but Drexler >>>> any of Kobe's teammates
May 19th 2020
51
      that wasn't Portland Drexler though
May 19th 2020
58
           What did any member of Kobe's cast achieve before or after though?
May 19th 2020
59
                about the same as Hakeem's cast
May 19th 2020
62
                     idk about that. Drexler won 2 WCF as the guy.
May 20th 2020
65
                          Fair point. I'm glad we're recognizing that winning a conference
May 20th 2020
67
                          thats a relative comparison tho
May 20th 2020
69
                               It's relative indeed, especially when you look at rosters
May 20th 2020
71
                                    well thats a little disingenuous
May 21st 2020
74
                                         Sure - Memphis had a nice little squad that year.
May 21st 2020
77
                                              theres a problem with this tho...
May 21st 2020
82
                                                   RE: theres a problem with this tho...
May 21st 2020
84
                                                   People will argue Pau Gasol > Clyde Drexler just to hate on Kobe lol
May 22nd 2020
88
                                                        yet to see anyone make that argument.
May 22nd 2020
96
                          not just a series. he didnt even win a playoff GAME before Kobe
May 20th 2020
72
                               And look what happened to Bynum, Odom, Artest etc AFTER Kobe
May 22nd 2020
87
Isiah has to at least be in this conversation.
May 19th 2020
53
      no he doesnt lol.
May 20th 2020
68
wow, all of that Hall of Fame coaching.....
May 18th 2020
38
RE: wow, all of that Hall of Fame coaching.....
May 20th 2020
73
RE: ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time
May 18th 2020
39
^^^i knew there were some old OKPs, but not anyone 70+^^^
May 18th 2020
45
no one over 70 would ever put wilt ahead of kareem
May 20th 2020
70
you got 3 people in your top 2
May 19th 2020
60
Different positions, different eras
May 18th 2020
46
Pierce has been getting universally dragged for omitting Bron
May 21st 2020
76
lol, I think you're misremembering a couple years.
May 22nd 2020
86
Yes this is correct.
May 22nd 2020
90
Yes the KG-PP-Allen-Rondo Celtics were Bron's version of Pistons
May 22nd 2020
95
      where is this mythical decade you're talking about?
May 22nd 2020
100
           2011, 2012, 2015, 2017, 2018
May 22nd 2020
102
                You counting Nets/Wizards/Clippers years?
May 22nd 2020
103
                Let’s be happy he’s not counting Pierce’s retired years too
May 22nd 2020
107
                I’m counting every time Bron faced Pierce in playoffs
May 23rd 2020
114
                Your math is funny.
May 22nd 2020
110
                     You’re from Boston
May 23rd 2020
113
                          I can move. Your idiotic post is forever.
May 23rd 2020
116
Do you have a link for this ?
May 22nd 2020
91
      laink:
May 22nd 2020
94
Magic: "LeBron is the best all-around basketball player of all-time...
May 21st 2020
78
do you hear yourself
May 21st 2020
81
      if you're going to quote you can at least quote accurately.
May 21st 2020
83
           Some people that played against both don’t put him over Kobe
May 21st 2020
85
                Most people that played against both
May 22nd 2020
89
                     facts, I was trying to be nice lol
May 22nd 2020
92
                     "most"? based on what?
May 22nd 2020
93
                          brb i am compiling an extensive list of interviews/responses just for yo...
May 22nd 2020
98
                               Of course I've heard some players say that.
May 22nd 2020
101
                                    See I’m not concerned with the media’s Bron centric agenda
May 22nd 2020
104
                                    #receipts:
May 22nd 2020
105
                                         Bosh must be bitter Bron left and he never mattered again /bron stans
May 22nd 2020
106
                                         that's a gigantic sample size. thanks.
May 23rd 2020
115
People really sleep on Duncan’s peak. Not so much career, but peak
May 22nd 2020
97
1 past his prime HOF'er and 2 pre-prime HOF'ers, Bruce Bowen...
May 22nd 2020
99
      Never once did people think Stephen Jackson was an All Star.
May 22nd 2020
108
           he had a couple of years when people said he was a snub
May 22nd 2020
109

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
40375 posts
Fri May-15-20 11:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "It feels like this is close to a consensus top 3."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm tired of this argument and have been for a long time now, but I have no qualms with how people rate the top 3 so long as it's those dudes.

------------------------------
'19-'20 LA Lakers

James. Davis. Kuzma. Howard. Rondo. Caldwell-Pope. Green. Cook. Bradley. McGee. Dudley. Caruso...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-15-20 03:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "It really has developed into a strong consensus "
In response to Reply # 1


          

>I'm tired of this argument and have been for a long time now,
>but I have no qualms with how people rate the top 3 so long as
>it's those dudes.

Agreed. The arguments for Kareem, MJ & LeBron are extremely compelling when you're forced to narrow it down to 3.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71246 posts
Sun May-24-20 02:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "I just don't see how Wilt gets left out there"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Even ranking Cap ahead of Wilt seems odd or in that case I think Russell would have to be higher because you'd be looking at career/team accomplishments.

I also think Oscar and Elgin get short-changed often. That whole era is getting to be out of sight out of mind and that is just wrong.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Sun May-24-20 11:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "To me the elevation of Russell above Wilt is comical"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Wed May-27-20 08:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
119. "Definitely agree with you on Wilt"
In response to Reply # 117


          

And the ranking of Russell over Wilt shows just how often we conflate team success/achievement with individual success/achievement.



-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Fri May-15-20 12:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-15-20 12:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "RE: ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-15-20 12:27 PM by allStah

          

Duncan ahead of Hakeem is just criminal. The greatest two way center off all time. Man won MVP, championship MVP and defensive player of the year all in one year.



I have Lebron in the top 10, but not ahead of magic. He is my number 2, went to the championship in three different decades. Him and Bird saved the NBA, won five championships, had possibly the greatest game in championship history where he played center for Kareem, where he scored 42 points and 15 rebounds as freaking rookie.

1/1a. Jordan/Wilt
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4.Lebron
5. Russell
6 Hakeem
7 Bird
8.Duncan
10. Kobe

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-15-20 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "I agree w/ you on Hakeem"
In response to Reply # 3


          

and think it's yet another example of how this can't simply just be a ring-count. If it was, Russell would be on everyone's list as #1 (and nobody really has him as the GOAT).

At their respective peaks, Hakeem was more dominant and a greater individual player. Duncan was perfect in the S.A. system, but without being surrounded by so many HOF'ers and two iterations of elite Spurs teams (Robinson & Kawhi teams), does Duncan win as many rings? Highly unlikely.

Hakeem also is only player in league history to be DPOY, MVP & Finals MVP in same season. I also think that Jordan and the Bulls were fortunate to miss that Rockets team. If Jordan hadn't retired in '94 - that Rockets team could've dethroned them - especially looking back now and seeing gassed Jordan was (emotionally and physically) after the first three-peat.




-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-15-20 05:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "Shaq was better that Duncan AND Hakeem and it’s not really close lol"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-15-20 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "So when Shaq got destoryed by Hakeem in the NBA finals"
In response to Reply # 6


          

what was that?

SMH.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
14835 posts
Fri May-15-20 06:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "that was young Shaq, 5 years before his peak "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41007 posts
Fri May-15-20 06:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "and before Kobe"
In response to Reply # 9
Fri May-15-20 06:46 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

Dream was an all time though.

He got his first without that true #2 option to boot, which is huge.

MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Tim, Isaiah, Brawn, Steph, they all had at least one HOF in their prime for their chips.

Only two cats I can recall who didn't have that is Dream (one the first) and Dirk. I suppose you could debate how close Kidd was from his prime, but IMO he was nowhere his prime at that point. He, Marion and Terry were still good players, but none were at a level of a HOF at that time.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
7447 posts
Sat May-23-20 06:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "Duncan in ‘03. He was the lone all-star for a 3-4 year stretch. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Parker and Ginobli were nowhere close to their peak and DRob was severely limited with his age and injuries. Not a single go to scorer he could rely on. Ginobli, Stephen Jackson, and Parker all shot below 38%.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Fri May-15-20 11:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "RE: that was young Shaq, 5 years before his peak "
In response to Reply # 9
Fri May-15-20 11:07 PM by allStah

          

Lol what?

Dude

Not one year did Shaq lead the league in rebounding or block shots...not one year.. how can you be a dominant center?

Hakeem lead the league in rebounding twice and block shots 4 times!

And he is 1 of three players to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season. The other two players are Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Hakeem has a foot work like a guard and insane skill level.

Shaq wasn’t skillful. No perimeter jump shot, nothing....shaq just bowled over people, and had nothing else. Couldn’t hit free throws

You are bugging. Hakeem was the michael Jordan of centers.

Dude destroyed Shaq, Ewing and Robinson all in the same era.

Shaq is so overrated it’s hilarious.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41007 posts
Sat May-16-20 02:04 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "Dream was great, but so was Shaq."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>
>Not one year did Shaq lead the league in rebounding or block
>shots...not one year.. how can you be a dominant center?

Is leading the league the sole criteria now? I think his rebounding numbers were a bit low overall, but they compare favorably with Dream, who wasn't an obscenely great rebounder.

>Hakeem lead the league in rebounding twice and block shots 4
>times!
>
>And he is 1 of three players to get 200 steals and 100 blocks
>in a season. The other two players are Michael Jordan and
>Scottie Pippen. Hakeem has a foot work like a guard and
>insane skill level.

Agreed. Hakeem was insanely good. Had he been drafted to Portland, he and Drex very well could have been a dynastic duo in their own right.

Pair him with a top shelf point guard, a Gary Payton, or Tim Hardaway, or a two, shit give him a Mitch Richmond. He may have had a few more chips, and Mike may have had one or two less.

It's worth noting that he didn't have a big time number 2 until drex showed up at the end of his caree, and he got chuck when both were at the end.


>Shaq wasn’t skillful.

Dead wrong, at least offensively. Defensively he was a beast, but not.for the reasons Dream was. Dream was a superior defender.

>No perimeter jump shot

For WHAT? his size, strength, agility, and quickness on the block was unmatched in his era. Shaq shooting jumpers detracts from the things that made him such an imposing, intimidating force.

>nothing....shaq just bowled over people, and had nothing else.

Spin move, baby hook, excellent passer from the block, an alley oop machine, and, yes, he could bowl people over in ways few ever could.

Just being able to bowl people over isn't an easy thing. We've seen big and strong centers, but not with HIS strength at HIS size with HIS quickness and athleticism. He's a matchup nightmare.

>Couldn’t hit free throws

Yeah, he had some weaknesses.

>You are bugging. Hakeem was the michael Jordan of centers.
>Dude destroyed Shaq, Ewing and Robinson all in the same era.

He did. And I think he's criminally unheralded in the pantheon discussions.

>Shaq is so overrated it’s hilarious.

Not in the slightest. Your love for Dream seems to be clouding your judgement ok n Shaq
.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Sat May-16-20 04:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "RE: Dream was great, but so was Shaq."
In response to Reply # 15
Sat May-16-20 04:20 AM by allStah

          

You just pointed out all the reasons why shaq is slightly overrated.

He wasn’t fundamentally sound and he was lazy. He didn’t take care of his body.

He never established a midrange, so when he couldn’t overpower people in the post any longer, he didn’t have a shot he could rely on. Like Kareem played forever because he had an unstoppable shot

Hakeem was the better athlete, better center and had the way better all around game,
just saying.

Even putting shaq over Moses Malone is criminal , who won mvp three times and was a rebounding beast , possibly the greatest PURE rebounding center of all time , and played from the age of 19 to the age of 39. Led league in rebounding 6 times. He holds the record for most offensive rebounds in a career, season, and game.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-15-20 07:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
12. "I def think Shaq should get some more love"
In response to Reply # 6
Fri May-15-20 07:34 PM by Vex_id

          

In terms of dominant big men. Shaq was the alpha MVP in Laker Land; Finals MVP for all three of those titles with Kobe as 2nd in command. I think we often confuse team dominance with individual dominance. Shaq and Hakeem were more individually dominant than Duncan - as was Wilt. Wilt killed Russell every time they played (averaging damn near 30 & 30! lol) - and holding Russell to 14 ppg shooting under 37% from the field. Russell clearly was on the better team - but I don't know how you can say he was better than Wilt.



-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
7426 posts
Fri May-15-20 09:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "The issue with Shaq is that he was dominant but inconsistent"
In response to Reply # 12
Fri May-15-20 09:22 PM by obsidianchrysalis

  

          

At Shaq's peak he was literally unguardable. Just a force. It was great to watch.

But he also didn't sustain that pace throughout his career. He knew when to pick his spots, especially in the postseason. All in all, his career doesn't match up to Hakeem and even Duncan.

Having Shaq in the top 10 just seems odd to me. Kobe as well, to be fair. It's hard to seperate their myth from their play. It also doesn't help that they played so recently and their greatness is so embedded into our minds, relative to greats of past eras.

It's clear to see Shaq or even Jordan and think you're seeing something that humans shouldn't be able to do. But obviously Duncan and Hakeem and others managed to do great things but just weren't as flashy. Seperating the style from the substance is hard and, this is just me talking, less athletically gifted players get short-thrift relative to great athletes because we (me included), in this modern age, value spectacular play over craft.

I'd have Shaq (and Kobe) closer to 12 or 15 then top 10.

But really once you get anywher from 8 to 12 or 15, your lists just favor personal preference more than anything. I'm not mad at the ESPN list, it just isn't my top 10, which is fine.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Mon May-18-20 09:25 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "And Shaq’s “dominance” is questionable to me..."
In response to Reply # 13
Mon May-18-20 09:25 AM by Creole

  

          

Dude never led the league in rebounds or blocked shots. Dude only made three All-Defensive teams and none of them were 1st team.

I fail to understand the word dominance as it relates to Shaq especially since its no seen in his overall game.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Tue May-19-20 08:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "on basketball court for people that actually saw him play in his prime....."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

and don't just read nerd ass stats. The entire league was afraid of Shaq.

He's easily the most dominant player since Wilt.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Tue May-19-20 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
55. "^"
In response to Reply # 52


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Tue May-19-20 10:03 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "LOL... I watched him play just like you did."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

There was a point in time where he dominated the competition that was put in front of him. This was especially after the other top centers were gone. But yes... He did dominate.

We, IMO, throw that word around too easily. Of course, mofos feared a 7’3” 340+ pound mofo who was in the paint. I just don’t understand how people say he was that dominant when he never led the league in blocks or rebounds especially during that time.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Tue May-19-20 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "when he got the ball in the paint you either fouled him or got dunked on..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

almost .60% CAREER fgp at almost 25ppg.

NOBODY will EVER come close to that.

I know some people will run in here to say Zion but can he do it as long as Shaq did? We'll see...

MDE

Most Dominant Ever.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Tue May-19-20 05:25 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "Fair points..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

It seems to me that you measure his dominance by what he did on the offensive end. There’s no dispute there.

However, I equate dominance to consistent superiority on both ends.

I get your point though. He was a monster in the paint during his peak era.


--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "so are you trying to say Shaq wasn't a great defensive player?"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

The Lakers were only able to three-peat because they had people like AC Green, Horace Grant & Samaki Walker bolstering their trash center?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Thu May-21-20 04:19 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "He played great defense but I’m not, at all, giving him MDE. "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

During that run, he made the 2nd or 3rd Team NBA Defensive Team. He didn’t lead the league in rebounds or blocks during those years or any other one. But yes... During that run, he played great defense.

A good two or three year run doesn’t necessarily make him the MDE though especially when there are cats, like TD, Hakeem, and Kareem, who were consistently playing great on both sides of the ball.

Shaq’s great! Yes! Shaq, as the most dominant ever, just doesn’t resonate with me.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Sat May-23-20 10:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "Head to head in the playoffs Shaq has dominated Tim Duncan..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

it’s funny how people want to put Hakeem over Shaq for winning that one series when Shaq STILL put up numbers but don’t look at Shaq having a better record in multiple series AND having better significantly numbers in the playoffs against Duncan.

It’s one of those things people want both ways like counting rings when it only benefits their side of the argument.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Tue May-19-20 07:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
64. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 61


          

>RE: when he got the ball in the paint you either fouled him or got dunked on...

^^^ true as hell. Funny to read in writing.


>almost .60% CAREER fgp at almost 25ppg.
>
>NOBODY will EVER come close to that.
>
>I know some people will run in here to say Zion but can he do
>it as long as Shaq did? We'll see...
>
>MDE
>
>Most Dominant Ever.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
5921 posts
Fri May-15-20 06:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "I LOVED those Rocket teams, and matchups reign supreme, but...."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>Hakeem also is only player in league history to be DPOY, MVP &
>Finals MVP in same season. I also think that Jordan and the
>Bulls were fortunate to miss that Rockets team. If Jordan
>hadn't retired in '94 - that Rockets team could've dethroned
>them - especially looking back now and seeing gassed Jordan
>was (emotionally and physically) after the first three-peat.

they were an AVERAGE John Starks shooting performance from losing in 7 to a Knicks team that the Bulls sans Mike took to 7, and if not for that Hugh Hollins call, may have lost to the Bulls in 6.

Dream was EATING regardless of who was guarding him, but with Jordan and Pippen on the wing, are those guards getting those open kickout threes? Bulls centers were rarely more than serviceable but they knew how to use their size and their fouls. Second three peat Bulls may fare better due to Rodman being able to defend Dream better than Horace, but Bulls championship teams always had formidable front courts.

Would have been some classics to watch. And nerve wracking as shit....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-15-20 07:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
11. "Would've been *the* definitive Finals matchup of the 90's"
In response to Reply # 8
Fri May-15-20 07:31 PM by Vex_id

          

That Back-to-Back Rockets team was likely better than all of the other Finals opponents for the Bulls.

>they were an AVERAGE John Starks shooting performance from
>losing in 7 to a Knicks team that the Bulls sans Mike took to
>7, and if not for that Hugh Hollins call, may have lost to the
>Bulls in 6.

True - but that Knicks team was no slight. That same Knicks team took prime Jordan and prime Pip/MJ/Horace '92 Bulls to 7 games and pushed them to the brink. Also, that Pippen-led Bulls team in '94 was *very* good, and Pip lead them barely any falloff from the previous year with MJ (just a 1-game difference in the reg. season).

Also, the Rockets *swept* Shaq and the Magic in '95 after they beat the Knicks. Jordan and the Bulls got stopped in '95 in the semis by that same Magic squad, and even if the Bulls would've pulled that series out and won in the ECF, that's a tall order to beat prime Hakeem and that Rockets team. Dream was unstoppable for those two years. Ate up everyone on both sides of the ball.

>Dream was EATING regardless of who was guarding him, but with
>Jordan and Pippen on the wing, are those guards getting those
>open kickout threes? Bulls centers were rarely more than
>serviceable but they knew how to use their size and their
>fouls. Second three peat Bulls may fare better due to Rodman
>being able to defend Dream better than Horace, but Bulls
>championship teams always had formidable front courts.

Indeed. Clearly, prime MJ/Pip and the Bulls could beat *any* team in NBA history - including that Rockets squad - but I also think the timing is key here. If Jordan decides to continue in '94 and go for 4-in-a-row - does he get worn out (especially given what we know now from the "The Last Dance" in terms of his on and off the court strains)?

Jordan faced an older Magic in the Finals in '91 - and then lost to a very young '95 Shaq who was learning how to win (albeit in a late-stage comeback attempt where Jordan wasn't prime) -- but I think it's pretty clear that '94/'95 Hakeem clearly would've been the best individual talent & two-way player that Jordan ever faced in the 90's.

>Would have been some classics to watch. And nerve wracking as
>shit....

Would've been epic.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52723 posts
Sat May-16-20 02:19 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "Lakers beat the Kings b/c of a corrupt referee tho. "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


So those Laker teams have their stuff too

Also: Portland couldnt get a call against the
Lakers in that comeback in the first chip I believe

So that "Starks" stuff is bullshit



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

melmag
Charter member
18428 posts
Sat May-16-20 10:59 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "lolz @ Russell getting fried on twitter"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat May-16-20 11:03 AM by melmag

  

          

https://twitter.com/i/status/1260610651355058177

https://twitter.com/lukerose2525/status/1260581440036777989

https://twitter.com/lukerose2525/status/1260581440036777989

https://twitter.com/LanceTHESPOKEN/status/1260651075477991425

https://twitter.com/ClutchLikeRomo/status/1260650103242539009

https://twitter.com/NathenVieira/status/1260663861780320257

https://twitter.com/GAPhilterfish/status/1260678592121450497

https://twitter.com/thefake_mglocks/status/1260895838567567360

https://twitter.com/mikejayss/status/1260882834757214210

https://twitter.com/DynastyTV__/status/1260868585934725120

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sat May-16-20 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
19. "lol They're not wrong though."
In response to Reply # 18


          

Anyone who thinks Russell wouldn't get destroyed by Hakeem isn't being honest.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52723 posts
Sat May-16-20 05:32 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "He played against the best of his time tho"
In response to Reply # 19
Sat May-16-20 05:32 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

It's like people who clown Jack Johnson's comp.

You beat everyone, you beat everyone.

That said, he not in my top 5 Lol

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sat May-16-20 09:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
21. "True indeed."
In response to Reply # 20


          

>It's like people who clown Jack Johnson's comp.
>
>You beat everyone, you beat everyone.

Good analogy. Both Johnson & Russell also had to perform under enormous social pressures and were transformational figures on and off the court/ring. Have to respect Russell - he was the centerpiece of that Celtic dynasty and he neutralized just enough of Wilt to secure those chips.

>That said, he not in my top 5 Lol

Curious to who you've got in your 5? It kinda feels like 5-10 are interchangeable.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
83174 posts
Sun May-17-20 12:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Especially silly since few of those people are ragging on Wilt at 6."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Like, why is having someone of that era at 6 okay... but having someone at 4 is absurd? Why the arbitrary cutoff? lol

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
bshelly
Charter member
71615 posts
Sun May-17-20 12:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "It’s not just the era."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

It’s the difference between a guy who once averaged 50 versus a 43 percent career shooter.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11241 posts
Sun May-17-20 02:05 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "RE: It’s not just the era."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>It’s the difference between a guy who once averaged 50
>versus a 43 percent career shooter.

https://images.app.goo.gl/7ZYwwaDionMSq84g6

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sun May-17-20 12:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
25. "What is the arbitrary cutoff?"
In response to Reply # 23
Sun May-17-20 12:44 PM by Vex_id

          

>Like, why is having someone of that era at 6 okay... but
>having someone at 4 is absurd? Why the arbitrary cutoff? lol

I didn't see anyone making a case against a certain era - but the fact that there was only a dozen of teams (with most of them not being very good at all) when Russell won all those rings has to be considered, as the playoffs were a formality and it was all but guaranteed that you'd see the Lakers v. Celtics in the Finals every year. The modern era is far more competitive.

Also, many here have continually regarded Wilt as belonging in the ATG category. Same era as Russell - it's just that you have to look at the individual accomplishments outside of the team accomplishments. Wilt clearly was the more dominant individual talent and just a better basketball player than Russell. Also, saying that Russell wasn't as good as Wilt is not a knock at all - given Wilt's anomalous greatness.

I think people often cite Russell in GOAT arguments as a proxy argument for Jordan or LeBron - because for some - GOAT rankings is simply a ring-count. But Russell is the perfect reason why it *shouldn't* be just a ring-count. Russell has more rings than fingers, but it's virtually impossible to make a credible claim that he was a greater basketball player than Jordan, LeBron, or Kareem (all of whom have less rings by a wide margin).


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
37998 posts
Sun May-17-20 08:59 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "Duncan is no worse than 5. Probably 4."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That list is some shit from top to bottom.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
26064 posts
Sun May-17-20 04:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "Top 3 All-time, maybe GOAT"
In response to Reply # 22


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
3064 posts
Sun May-17-20 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "Hakeem made Shaq look like a child. FOH"
In response to Reply # 0


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

melmag
Charter member
18428 posts
Sun May-17-20 02:56 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "Surprisingly Kobe's passing hasn't lionized his greatness"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun May-17-20 02:59 PM by melmag

  

          

Or maybe its still too early?

Usually the norm when an all time great passes, it happens in every genre..

But I fully expected him to be wrongly included in the top 5 somewhere. I feel his impact/popularity somewhat outweigh his actual gamesmanship, and that sort of thing usually takes precedent in these kind of lists, for fear of backlash. Prolly why Bill Russell is even in the top 10 convo at all.

I mean, Kobe over Shaq & Hakeem? Really?? Granted, it isn't much of leap considering they ranked right after another. But it kinda diminishes their greatness & sheer dominance imo. Gotta be the rings!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Sun May-17-20 07:21 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "Kobe is the 2nd best SG ever. Why wouldn’t he be in the top 10?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Sun May-17-20 03:06 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "ESPN messed up. KAREEM is the best to ever do it. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His entire career’s ridiculously overlooked. And his NBA stats, awards, and accomplishments are more than enough to solidify his standing over MJ.

And I’m talking BASKETBALL; not sneakers and marketing campaigns.

I mess with MJ but just not as the game’s best ever.

And for ESPN to have LeBron there, above Kareem, is mad disrespectful to that man’s legacy. I got LeBron, over Bird, as the best SF to ever do it but not the best player to ever do it.


6× NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1986)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1985)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974, 1975, 1979–1981)
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970, 1971, 1976–1978, 1984)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1970)
2× NBA scoring champion (1971, 1972)
NBA rebounding champion (1976)
4× NBA blocks leader (1975, 1976, 1979, 1980)
No. 33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
No. 33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
3× NCAA champion (1967–1969)
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1967–1969)
3× National college player of the year (1967–1969)
3× Consensus first-team All-American (1967–1969)
No. 33 retired by UCLA Bruins
2× Mr. Basketball USA (1964, 1965)
Presidential Medal of Freedom (2016)

79-2 in high school.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bshelly
Charter member
71615 posts
Sun May-17-20 07:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Say it again"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>His entire career’s ridiculously overlooked. And his NBA
>stats, awards, and accomplishments are more than enough to
>solidify his standing over MJ.
>
>And I’m talking BASKETBALL; not sneakers and marketing
>campaigns.
>
>I mess with MJ but just not as the game’s best ever.
>
>And for ESPN to have LeBron there, above Kareem, is mad
>disrespectful to that man’s legacy. I got LeBron, over Bird,
>as the best SF to ever do it but not the best player to ever
>do it.
>
>
>6× NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
>2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
>6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977,
>1980)
>19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
>10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1981,
>1984, 1986)
>5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1985)
>5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974, 1975, 1979–1981)
>6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970, 1971, 1976–1978,
>1984)
>NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
>NBA All-Rookie First Team (1970)
>2× NBA scoring champion (1971, 1972)
>NBA rebounding champion (1976)
>4× NBA blocks leader (1975, 1976, 1979, 1980)
>No. 33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
>No. 33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers
>NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
>3× NCAA champion (1967–1969)
>3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1967–1969)
>3× National college player of the year (1967–1969)
>3× Consensus first-team All-American (1967–1969)
>No. 33 retired by UCLA Bruins
>2× Mr. Basketball USA (1964, 1965)
>Presidential Medal of Freedom (2016)
>
>79-2 in high school.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
6355 posts
Mon May-18-20 12:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "look at that gap in between finals MVPs"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


>2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Mon May-18-20 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "RE: look at that gap in between finals MVPs"
In response to Reply # 37


          

>
>>2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)

Kareem's longevity is a big reason why he's in the GOAT discussion and a consensus top 3 -- but that same list (only 2 Finals MVPs out of 6) has to be considered as well. He was carried by prime Magic for a lot of those chips on historic, all-time great Laker teams with crazy depth.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Mon May-18-20 10:16 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Longevity. Ain’t his fault that MJ quit twice before quitting a third."
In response to Reply # 42
Mon May-18-20 10:40 PM by Creole

  

          

Carried by Magic. GOH... He won the Finals MVP in 1985. Carried?

And I’m including Cap’s entire basketball career; not just the NBA time.

LeBron (your guy) has been in the league longer than MJ too. So he’s got the longevity without the rings. How did he make it into the top 3 and over Cap?

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Tue May-19-20 09:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
54. "Agreed on that point about longevity. "
In response to Reply # 49
Tue May-19-20 09:29 AM by Vex_id

          

Kareem has set the standard for longevity greatness - but LeBron is knocking on that door in a very real way (he could finish 1st in points and top 3 in assists all-time, which is bananas).

>Carried by Magic. GOH... He won the Finals MVP in 1985.
>Carried?

1980 Finals MVP: Magic
1982 Finals MVP: Magic
1987 Finals MVP: Magic
1988 Finals MVP: Worthy

Kareem was on all of those teams - but often wasn't the best player on his team for those 4 years in the biggest moments (and wasn't even the 2nd best player on some of those teams late in his career). So the bulk of his titles came on a ridiculously deep team to where he could essentially be role player. Still, he's in my top 3 because of how great he was for so long (he was ATG level for so many years earlier in his career - even though he only won 1 title playing at that level) - but his road to 6 championships was very different than Jordan's - who had to carry all of those championship teams as the undisputed #1 guy.

>LeBron (your guy) has been in the league longer than MJ too.
>So he’s got the longevity without the rings. How did he make
>it into the top 3 and over Cap?

Because he's a better all-around basketball player.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Tue May-19-20 10:12 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "Fair points..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

I’m still with Kareem though.

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
PROMO
Charter member
25541 posts
Mon May-18-20 04:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
44. "LOL. FOH. It's MJ. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Mon May-18-20 10:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "Because you bought his shoes and drank Gatorade? "
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Dude was in the league for 7 years before he sniffed a chip. He captured 6 titles in the following 8 years. Put up a bunch of points. Played helluva defense. Won a dunk contest or two. Sold a ton of sneakers, Gatorade, and underwear. Can’t forget the movie too. Oh yeah... Back to basketball..

Show or tell us exactly how MJ was “FOH” better than Kareem.

6× NBA champion (1991–1993, 1996–1998)
6× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993, 1996–1998)
5× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
14× NBA All-Star (1985–1993, 1996–1998, 2002, 2003)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988, 1996, 1998)
10× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993, 1996–1998)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993, 1996–1998)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
NBA All-Rookie Team (1985)
10× NBA scoring champion (1987–1993, 1996–1998)
3× NBA steals leader (1988, 1990, 1993)
2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1987, 1988)
No. 23 retired by Chicago Bulls
No. 23 retired by Miami Heat
3× AP Athlete of the Year (1991–1993)
Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (1991)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NCAA champion (1982)
Consensus national college player of the year (1984)
2× Consensus first-team All-American (1983, 1984)
ACC Player of the Year (1984)
2× First-team All-ACC (1983, 1984)
ACC Rookie of the Year (1982)
No. 23 retired by North Carolina Tar Heels
2× USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (1983, 1984)
Presidential Medal of Freedom (2016)

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
PROMO
Charter member
25541 posts
Thu May-21-20 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
75. "BECAUSE, if MJ played Kareem, MJ would BUST HIS ASS."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Also, as mentioned, Magic carried Kareem in his later career. Not to mention James Worthy an' 'nem helping out big time. any Jud Beuchler's on them Laker teams?

lol. FOH dawg.

ain't have shit to do with sneakers and gatorade.

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Creole
Charter member
15355 posts
Thu May-21-20 04:31 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "You got it..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

--- praying for peace, love, and power

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Mon May-18-20 08:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
melmag
Charter member
18428 posts
Mon May-18-20 10:14 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "RE: The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


I think Westbrook's recent onslaught of triple doubles has kinda diminished Oscar's alleged greatness, in a sense.

Obviously not parallel situations but it somewhat gives context to how a player can be that productive but still not regarded as being all that great.

If I didn't witness Westbrook, I prolly still hold Oscar in higher regard, I had him in my top 5 at one point. lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
1865 posts
Mon May-18-20 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "RE: The Oscar Robinson disrespect is comical too."
In response to Reply # 35


          

I witnessed it too, and it was not on the level of Oscar. It was watered down.

There was no three point shooting back then, so there were no long easy rebounds. Also, Oscar didn't have teammates giving him rebounds.

PLus teams don't play under the basket anymore. They run a spread offense, with the majority of the teams set behind the three point line.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
83174 posts
Mon May-18-20 02:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "Robertson"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Mon May-18-20 03:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "my bad it was early lol"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7205 posts
Mon May-18-20 11:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Has anyone EVER won back to bck rings with a weaker cast than Kobe?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

No.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
14835 posts
Mon May-18-20 08:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "Maybe Hakeem?"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52723 posts
Mon May-18-20 09:53 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "it's Hakeem's Rockets by a mile. n/m"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7205 posts
Tue May-19-20 07:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "Maybe Hakeem by a nose...but Drexler >>>> any of Kobe's teammates"
In response to Reply # 47


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Tue May-19-20 10:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
58. "that wasn't Portland Drexler though "
In response to Reply # 51


          

And Pau was a great fit for that Lakers squad. Lakers also had arguably the most dynamic front lines in the game with Gasol/Bynum (when he was balling) and Odom supporting Kobe. So that Laker team wasn't hurting for talent.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7205 posts
Tue May-19-20 02:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "What did any member of Kobe's cast achieve before or after though?"
In response to Reply # 58


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Tue May-19-20 04:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
62. "about the same as Hakeem's cast"
In response to Reply # 59
Tue May-19-20 04:13 PM by Vex_id

          

None of those guys were champions until Hakeem took them there, and only Horry went on to contribute to a championship team (as a role player playing a lesser role than when he played in Houston).

I just think that Laker team gets under-rated in terms of its depth and talent. When Kobe had a bad night in the Finals - particularly in game 7 vs. Boston in 2010 when he went 6-for-24 from the field - the Lakers still could win (and they won that game with great team contributions). Hakeem was so individually dominant in the Finals - particularly in '95.




-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
65. "idk about that. Drexler won 2 WCF as the guy."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Gasol never even won a series pre-Lakers

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "Fair point. I'm glad we're recognizing that winning a conference "
In response to Reply # 65


          

is a notable accomplishment.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
69. "thats a relative comparison tho"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

a conference title is huge deal when the comparison is to a guy that never won a series

other situations it means less

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Wed May-20-20 09:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
71. "It's relative indeed, especially when you look at rosters"
In response to Reply # 69


          

Pau was riding with Mike Miller and Chucky Atkins in Memphis.

Those great Portland teams were strong 1-5 -- just look at the contributions you got from their core on that team that won the WCF in '90:

Clyde: 23/6/5
Porter: 17/9
Kersey: 16/8
Buck Williams: 13/10
Duckworth: 16/6

And you had Cliff Robinson off the bench (who was a 6th man of the year, 2nd all defensive team, and even an all-star).

That was a stacked team. Memphis didn't feature nearly the talent of those Blazers teams.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Thu May-21-20 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
74. "well thats a little disingenuous"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Memphis was a 50 win team in 04

Jason Williams had his best years in Memphis at that time then turned around and started at PG for a title team in 06

Chucky Atkins played 22 min a game for a conference finalist in 2003 that had no one nearly as talented as Gasol, but his 27 mpg contributed to a 1st round sweep for Memphis?

yes, portland was very good and well balanced. that doesnt mean Memphis wasnt good enough to win *A* playoff game over 3 years instead of going 0-12

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Thu May-21-20 03:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "Sure - Memphis had a nice little squad that year."
In response to Reply # 74


          

but they had nothing on the comprised core of that Portland team.

Career for career - Clyde was obviously the better player - but context matters. Houston Clyde was very late-stage career Clyde. He simply wasn't the same player in Houston that he was in Portland. Conversely, Lakers got a prime Pau Gasol (who combined with prime Bynum and Lamar Odom were widely recognized as being the most dominant front-line in the game) + Kobe. That was a talented squad.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
82. "theres a problem with this tho..."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          


>Career for career - Clyde was obviously the better player -
>but context matters. Houston Clyde was very late-stage career
>Clyde. He simply wasn't the same player in Houston that he
>was in Portland.

1995 was one of the 5 best years of Clyde's career from just about any statistical measure.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html

1995 was prime Clyde anyway you slice it

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Thu May-21-20 07:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
84. "RE: theres a problem with this tho..."
In response to Reply # 82


          


>1995 was one of the 5 best years of Clyde's career from just
>about any statistical measure.
>
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html
>
>1995 was prime Clyde anyway you slice it

He had a nice season in '95 - but I don't think his playoff performance/numbers in '95 were in the top 5 of his best years in terms of productivity and impact - either from a numbers or from an eye-test point of view - but he was still *very* good and an integral reason why they won back to back chips. Without Clyde, that doesn't happen.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7205 posts
Fri May-22-20 03:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "People will argue Pau Gasol > Clyde Drexler just to hate on Kobe lol"
In response to Reply # 82


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
96. "yet to see anyone make that argument."
In response to Reply # 88


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Wed May-20-20 09:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "not just a series. he didnt even win a playoff GAME before Kobe"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7205 posts
Fri May-22-20 03:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "And look what happened to Bynum, Odom, Artest etc AFTER Kobe"
In response to Reply # 72


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Tue May-19-20 08:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "Isiah has to at least be in this conversation."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
68. "no he doesnt lol."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mr. ManC
Member since Jan 26th 2009
11780 posts
Mon May-18-20 12:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "wow, all of that Hall of Fame coaching....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lebron should be jealous.

________________________________________________

SUPA NERD LLC.
Knowledge Meets Nature
Musica Negra
#13irteen

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Wed May-20-20 09:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
73. "RE: wow, all of that Hall of Fame coaching....."
In response to Reply # 38
Wed May-20-20 09:33 AM by Vex_id

          

>Lebron should be jealous.

He's the only guy on that list who didn't have the benefit of HOF coaching. Also goes to show you just how important elite coaching is.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
7361 posts
Mon May-18-20 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "RE: ESPN ranks top 10 players of all time"
In response to Reply # 0


          

1. B. Russ
1a. Wilt
2. Jabbar

In that order... you can put anyone else in any spot after that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
PROMO
Charter member
25541 posts
Mon May-18-20 05:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
45. "^^^i knew there were some old OKPs, but not anyone 70+^^^"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
32324 posts
Wed May-20-20 08:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
70. "no one over 70 would ever put wilt ahead of kareem"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12203 posts
Tue May-19-20 02:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "you got 3 people in your top 2"
In response to Reply # 39


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
14835 posts
Mon May-18-20 07:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "Different positions, different eras "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It’s impossible to put that into a numbered list.

But there’s nothing else for ESPN to cover and for us to talk about, so it’s cool.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Thu May-21-20 03:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
76. "Pierce has been getting universally dragged for omitting Bron"
In response to Reply # 0


          

from his top 5 - and rightfully so. Kendrick Perkins gave some great insight into the lineage of the Pierce/Bron static - but clearly his personal feelings are clouding his objectivity - though it is understandable considering how dominant LeBron was against Pierce, sending him home early for an entire decade and thwarting any chance Pierce and the original 3-headed monster (4-headed counting prime Rondo) Celtic teams had to win a 2nd 'chip.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11241 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:08 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "lol, I think you're misremembering a couple years."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

sending him home early for
>an entire decade and thwarting any chance Pierce and the
>original 3-headed monster (4-headed counting prime Rondo)
>Celtic teams had to win a 2nd 'chip.

Sent him home early for an entire decade? Bron couldn't defeat them in 08 or 10 with the Cavs, then he joined the Heatles to get over that hump. He defeated Pierce's Celtics in 11 and 12 and then Pierce's Nets in 14, so he's 3-2 against Pierce in the playoffs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
90. "Yes this is correct."
In response to Reply # 86


          

There's the famous clip of LBJ ripping his Cavs jersey off after the Celtics sent him home in 2010. That being his last moment in a Cavs jersey before the decision.

Weird to just omit that time period. LeBron himself even admitted that the Celtics were the hurdle he had to leap to cement his greatness and win a chip.


>Sent him home early for an entire decade? Bron couldn't defeat
>them in 08 or 10 with the Cavs, then he joined the Heatles to
>get over that hump. He defeated Pierce's Celtics in 11 and 12
>and then Pierce's Nets in 14, so he's 3-2 against Pierce in
>the playoffs

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
95. "Yes the KG-PP-Allen-Rondo Celtics were Bron's version of Pistons"
In response to Reply # 86


          

When Bron was young (not even 25) - the Celtics took advantage of a deficient Cavs roster to best him as a pup -- but as soon as LeBron had a squad and came of age - it wasn't even close and Bron terrorized the Celtics for an entire decade (with or without Pierce).

There's this narrative that Pierce was somehow on par with Bron and gave it to him in head to head matchups - but that's a myth. In the 30 playoff games against Pierce, James averaged 29.1 points, 5.3 assists, and 8.4 rebounds, while Pierce averaged 17.0 points, 2.8 assist, and 4.8 rebounds.

Pierce fancied himself as the Bron killer in many respects - and still does to this day - and while he played the game of his life in a game 7 vs Bron (where Bron still got the better of him in that matchup) - it was really more about Bron v. PP/KG/Allen/Rondo and the Celtics than it was Bron v. PP.


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
11241 posts
Fri May-22-20 02:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "where is this mythical decade you're talking about?"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

are you talking about Bron vs. Pierce or Bron vs. the Celtics regardless of if they had Pierce? The latter is closeish to true, the former is not.

Also the 2012 and 2018 series went 7 games, so your notion that it "wasn't even close" from 2011 onward isn't even true.

>There's this narrative that Pierce was somehow on par with
>Bron and gave it to him in head to head matchups - but that's
>a myth. In the 30 playoff games against Pierce, James
>averaged 29.1 points, 5.3 assists, and 8.4 rebounds, while
>Pierce averaged 17.0 points, 2.8 assist, and 4.8 rebounds.

No one except Pierce believes he's on par with Bron. Even me, one of the biggest Pierce fans on the planet, can laugh off some of his statements... but he was a killer. That much is true.

I believe Bron is one of 3 guys to have a legitimate claim to GOAT, but as always, you don't have to lie to sell people on that. In fact, acknowledging his playoff failures actually makes the narrative better.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 02:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
102. "2011, 2012, 2015, 2017, 2018"
In response to Reply # 100


          

that's a looooot of owning. You'd be hard pressed to find a more dominant run against a singular team in the playoffs in the modern era. I clarified that I'm talking about Bron v. Celtics w/ or without Pierce.

But in the head to head matchup - Bron owned Pierce in the games that mattered most. It's not even close.

>Also the 2012 and 2018 series went 7 games, so your notion
>that it "wasn't even close" from 2011 onward isn't even true.

5-0 after 2010. That ain't close.

But it's true: The Celtics made Bron tougher (just like the Pistons made Jordan tougher). And like Zeke (who still can't give Jordan his just due) - Pierce is bitter from that rivalry and having his legacy ended prematurely by Bron (just like Zeke's legacy ended a bit early by Jordan). So it ain't a mystery to why Pierce can't give Bron his just due.



-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-22-20 04:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "You counting Nets/Wizards/Clippers years?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
37998 posts
Fri May-22-20 07:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
107. "Let’s be happy he’s not counting Pierce’s retired years too"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sat May-23-20 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
114. "I’m counting every time Bron faced Pierce in playoffs "
In response to Reply # 103


          

And every team LeBron faced a Celtics team in the playoffs.

So yes - that would include the Brooklyn Nets squad purchased by a Russian oligarch
when KG & Pierce teamed up with Joe Johnson and D. Will just to try and beat LeBron.

And got bodied.

Absolutely counts. Or were we only counting when Bron was a pup on a trash Cleveland roster?

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
110. "Your math is funny."
In response to Reply # 102


          

>RE: 2011, 2012, 2015, 2017, 2018 = decade.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sat May-23-20 10:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
113. "You’re from Boston "
In response to Reply # 110


          

My condolences.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Sat May-23-20 08:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
116. "I can move. Your idiotic post is forever."
In response to Reply # 113
Sat May-23-20 08:11 PM by Brew

          

.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
19444 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
91. "Do you have a link for this ?"
In response to Reply # 76


          

>Kendrick Perkins gave
>some great insight into the lineage of the Pierce/Bron static

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 11:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
94. "laink:"
In response to Reply # 91


          

>>Kendrick Perkins gave
>>some great insight into the lineage of the Pierce/Bron
>static

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSDprA7NAok


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Thu May-21-20 03:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
78. "Magic: &quot;LeBron is the best all-around basketball player of all-time..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-21-20 03:39 PM by Vex_id

          

Note that he still referred to Jordan as "the greatest -- which sort of reminds me of boxing analysis that refers to sugar ray robinson or mayweather as the best boxer of all-time, yet Ali as "the greatest" -- I like what Magic did there.

Admittedly, I didn't think that Bron's consensus in the top 3 would coalesce this rapidly (especially pre-retirment) - but we're already here. Well, unless your Skip Bayless or Paul Pierce. But everyone else seems to have come to their objective senses.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
HecticHavoc
Member since May 13th 2005
7378 posts
Thu May-21-20 04:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "do you hear yourself"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

"i didnt think Bron would be in the top 3 at this point" you have posted over a thousand times on this site he is consensus top 3.

-----------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Thu May-21-20 06:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
83. "if you're going to quote you can at least quote accurately."
In response to Reply # 81


          

actual quote:

"I didn't think that Bron's consensus in the top 3 would coalesce this rapidly (especially pre-retirment)"

"Consensus" means that the majority of analysts/experts are in general agreement. Everyone here knows where I rank LeBron (I made the claim a decade ago on the boards that he'd be a top 3 GOAT) - so of course I have in the top 3 - but the *consensus* opinion now has him in the top 3 to where even some of his loudest critics are putting him on Rushmore when they're forced to narrow down to a top 3 list.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Thu May-21-20 08:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "Some people that played against both don’t put him over Kobe"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "Most people that played against both "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "facts, I was trying to be nice lol"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
93. ""most"? based on what?"
In response to Reply # 89


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Fri May-22-20 01:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "brb i am compiling an extensive list of interviews/responses just for yo..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

lmao

if you just halfway pay attn to player interviews when the GOAT discussion comes up you'd know they think Kobe > Lebron. the most common order i hear is MJ, Kobe, Bron with Bron having the opportunity to pass Kobe if he gets a ring w/ the Lakers

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Fri May-22-20 02:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
101. "Of course I've heard some players say that."
In response to Reply # 98


          

but the notion that "most" feel that way lacks evidence - so yea - if you're gonna claim that you better be able to show your work.

I understand why you'd rate Kobe higher as a Laker fan - but the Kobe > LeBron argument died a long time ago bruh. That ship sailed.

-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Fri May-22-20 05:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "See I’m not concerned with the media’s Bron centric agenda"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>but the notion that "most" feel that way lacks evidence - so
>yea - if you're gonna claim that you better be able to show
>your work.
>
>I understand why you'd rate Kobe higher as a Laker fan - but
>the Kobe > LeBron argument died a long time ago bruh. That
>ship sailed.
>
>-->

These the same folk that thought Bron was better when Kobe has 5 and Bron had 0
Bron still got some work to do to move up my personal top 10.

Same folk that really thought Nash was putting in more and better work than Kobe when Nash was playing with all stars and Kobe was playing with grocery store workers

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-22-20 05:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "#receipts:"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ind4Kd2GkhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ8R6rlgapg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeUQhhrVtsM

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79004 posts
Fri May-22-20 05:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "Bosh must be bitter Bron left and he never mattered again /bron stans"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Vex_id
Charter member
64516 posts
Sat May-23-20 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
115. "that's a gigantic sample size. thanks."
In response to Reply # 105


          


-->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
7447 posts
Fri May-22-20 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "People really sleep on Duncan’s peak. Not so much career, but peak"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

For some strange reason I hear Dirk’s name mentioned a lot for leading a somewhat weak cast to a chip and also Dream, but rarely ever a mention of Duncan’s ‘03 team. JasonTerry was a more reliable and efficient scorer than anyone on Duncan’s team. I think people forget that Ginobli and Parker were nowhere close to the players they would eventually become. In the finals, Parker was the 2nd leading scorer with 14.0 pg on 38% shooting. He was so erratic at times that Speedy Claxton had to take over. I respect the hell out of Speedy, but he was a journeyman who never got considerable pt in the playoffs again. Admiral and Stephen Jackson averaged 10 a game and Ginobli just 8. Duncan averaged 24/17/5/5 and 10 minutes a game more than any of his teammates. They took out 3 good teams in Phoenix, Dallas, and the Lakers and Duncan was the absolute best player on the court in every series.

Obviously Duncan is lauded for his consistency and leadership, but he had a very dominant peak that often gets overlooked.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-22-20 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "1 past his prime HOF'er and 2 pre-prime HOF'ers, Bruce Bowen..."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

was All-Defense 8 times including 5-time first team and was DPOY runner-up 3 years in a row and top 5 in voting at least 5 times. Stephen Jackson became a borderline All-Star, lets not act like Timmy was playing with scrubs lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
TheRealBillyOcean
Charter member
37998 posts
Fri May-22-20 07:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
108. "Never once did people think Stephen Jackson was an All Star."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
ThaTruth
Charter member
89742 posts
Fri May-22-20 09:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "he had a couple of years when people said he was a snub"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby Okay Sports topic #2714901 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com