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Subject: " Can we talk about the blatant racism in NBA coaching hires?" Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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Tue Apr-16-19 03:07 PM

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" Can we talk about the blatant racism in NBA coaching hires?"


  

          

Let's start with Mike Brown:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownmi99c.html

In his first stint in Cleveland he went to playoffs every year, he took Lebron and some dudes from the club to the NBA Finals in his second year, won 60+ games his last 2 seasons and was fired and had to go work for ESPN.

A year later he was hired by the Lakers and went to playoffs in the lockout shortened season, the next season he was fired after 5 games due to a slow start when newly acquired Steve Nash was hurt, Dwight was recovering from back surgery and Kobe was playing with an injured foot and couldn't practice.

He had a second run in Cleveland with Kyrie and some bums and had his first losing season over 82 games and was fired again a year later.

He sat at home for 2 years until he was hired to be an assistant in Golden State. When Steve Kerr was out he led the Warriors to a 12-0 post season record but got zero credit for it. Luke Walton who Brown replaced went 39-4 in the regular season when Kerr was out and continues to get job after job because of that. Meanwhile Brown's name doesn't even come up for head coaching jobs any more even though he's only 49 and his .616 winning percentage is top 10 in NBA history for people that have coached more than 3 seasons.

Avery Johnson:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/johnsav01c.html

Won 60 games and went to the NBA Finals his first full season as head coach in Dallas, won 67 games the 2nd year but got upset in the first round because MVP Dirk bitched up. The following season won 51 games but lost in the first round to Byron Scott's Hornet's and was fired. He went to work for ESPN for 2 years and then took over a bad Nets team and was fired in his 3rd season with a .500 record just as they were starting to turn around. He went back to TV and ended coaching in college. Again his name doesn't even come up anymore for NBA head coaching jobs despite his .577 career winning percentage. The guy that replace him in Dallas Rick Carlisle won a title in his 3rd year but since had had 4 winning seasons in 8 years and has had a losing record the last 3 years but his job security isn't even in question.

Byron Scott:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/scottby01c.html

Took over a trash Nets franchise and had them in the NBA Finals in his 2nd and 3rd year. Was fired midway through the 4th season with a winning record. Took over a trash New Orleans franchise, had them in the playoffs his 4th & 5th seasons yet was fired 9 games into the 6th season. Took over a trash Cleveland team after Lebron left the first time and was fired after 3 seasons before he was able to turn them around...
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2013/04/cleveland_cavaliers_players_st.html
Took over a trash Laker team in Kobe's final 2 years while trying to develop younger players but was again fired before he was able to finish the job. He's now doing tv because he is not even on the NBA coaching radar...

Mark Jackson:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/jacksma01c.html

Took over a trash Warriors franchise and had them in the playoffs in years 2 and 3 and them was fired so Steve Kerr could reap the benefits of the players Mark Jackson developed. Now he's doing tv and barely gets a whiff for other NBA head coaching jobs despite a .526 winning percentage.





Meanwhile these trash ass white coaches lose and walk right into another head coaching job, they don't have to go back to being assistants or doing tv work...

I already talked about Rick Carlisle, 2011 was a long time ago...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/carliri01c.html

Luke Walton:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/waltolu01c.html
Rode Steve Kerr's coattails off the player's Mark Jackson developed, didn't do shit in his first head coaching job with the Lakers, after they "agreed to part ways" he was promptly given another head coaching job in Sacramento despite a .398 winning percentage.

Mike D'Antoni:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html
Got his first head coaching job with Phoenix and had some success but couldn't get them past the conference finals so he left there and went to the Knicks where he was mostly trash but still given the Lakers head coaching job and he ran them into the ground. He was an assistant in Philly for a year then was given the Houston job and is still trying to get them to the Finals.

Mike Budenholzer
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/budenmi99c.html

A Greg Popovich disciple that had some early success with his first head coaching job in Atlanta but the wheels fell off quickly. Eventually he and the Hawks "agreed to part ways" because white coaches rarely get fired they just decide to leave. He was given the Bucks job and is reaping the benefits of players developed by Jason Kidd.

Brett Brown:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownbr99c.html

Another Pop disciple, had 4 terrible seasons in Philly during "the process" but some of the young players he had eventually developed and they had some success the last 2 years but his teams have looked shaky in the playoffs but the players need to figure it out because white coaches are never blamed for their teams struggles.

Scott Brooks:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brooksc01c.html

Took over a bad OKC franchise that had some great draft picks and he eventually developed them into a contender than made it to the NBA Finals in his 4th year but failed to reach those same heights after that and was fired then CHOSE to sit out for a year:
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--scott-brooks-passing-on-interviews--likely-sitting-out-next-season-160503597.html

He was then given the Wizards job that continued to underachieve despite an All-Star back-court but the player's need to figure it out because it is never a white coach's fault.

Dave Joerger:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/joergda99c.html

Took over and Memphis team that had fired Lionel Hollins after a 56 win season and a trip to the conference finals. Joeger never got anywhere close to that and lost in the first round 2 out of 3 years. Was fired but was promptly given another head coaching job in Sacremento where despite some young talent he wasn't able to finish over .500 in 3 seasons and was fired again but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets another head coaching job next season.

Mike Malone:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/malonmi99c.html

He was trash in Sacremento and was fired and stepped right into the Denver job and has them doing well but he may be over-matched in the playoffs.

Nick Nurse
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/nurseni01c.html

We'll see, somehow as an assistant under Dwane Casey, Nurse was credited with everything right with the Raptors while everything that went wrong with the Raptors was blamed on Casey who was fired. Nurse won 58 games, 1 less than the 59 Casey won in his last year we'll see how far they get in the playoffs with the addition of Kawhi Leonard.





These are just a few of the obvious examples, there are a lot more that have been more subtle...

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Anchor this shit forever
Apr 16th 2019
1
FACTS!!!
Apr 16th 2019
2
Love Mark Jackson. Avery, Byron, & Kidd were good. Mike Malone is good.
Apr 16th 2019
3
Basically
Apr 16th 2019
4
right...
Apr 16th 2019
5
I fucking hate Scott Brooks with a passion yo.
Apr 16th 2019
6
Man started a washed Kendrick Perkins
Apr 16th 2019
7
He's a terrible coach
Apr 17th 2019
8
He has done less with more than most coaches will ever get
Apr 17th 2019
10
Luke Walton is privilege personified
Apr 17th 2019
9
i was legit angry when he was hired a day after being fired.
Apr 17th 2019
11
      they fired DJ because Walton was going to become available.
Apr 18th 2019
46
Malone is most definitely not a trash ass coach
Apr 17th 2019
12
he had a losing record in Sacramento and walked right into another job.....
Apr 17th 2019
14
      He should’ve remained the Kings coach as well.
Apr 17th 2019
17
      why? because he was able to pacify Boogie?
Apr 17th 2019
18
           Cuz the team was trending in the right direction.
Apr 17th 2019
30
                Don't pester him with facts b/w Malone is not even the worst "support"
Apr 18th 2019
48
      Ok, still not a trash ass coach.
Apr 17th 2019
20
           he's won a grand total of 1 playoff game, chill
Apr 17th 2019
22
                #24
Apr 17th 2019
25
                     The point is Malone got fired with a losing record in Sacramento and got...
Apr 17th 2019
27
                     The point is he doesn't belong on your list as it was phrased.
Apr 17th 2019
28
                          okayplayer. n/m
Apr 17th 2019
29
                     im glad you peeped that lol
Apr 17th 2019
32
                          Please elaborate.
Apr 17th 2019
34
                          that's out of the OE playbook
Apr 18th 2019
52
Imagine labeling a guy as trash who has two 60-W seasons in 6 years
Apr 17th 2019
13
Imagine a dude with two 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance...
Apr 17th 2019
15
      I never said your other points aren't valid
Apr 17th 2019
16
           so what are you saying?
Apr 17th 2019
19
                omit Bud from your list of "trash ass coaches" immediately
Apr 17th 2019
21
                     Fuck him and you.
Apr 17th 2019
23
                     Umad
Apr 17th 2019
24
                          Very.
Apr 17th 2019
26
                     Budenholzer was GIVEN a playoff team in ATL that Larry Drew...
Apr 17th 2019
33
                          that is a bit revisionist or just ignoring a ton of drama in Atlanta
Apr 18th 2019
37
                               I said the wheels fell off, I didn’t say it was entirely his fault...
Apr 18th 2019
39
                                    Is there a recent CoY that has stayed unemployed?
Apr 18th 2019
40
                                         Yeah most of the dudes I named at the top of this post lol, that award.....
Apr 18th 2019
42
                                              Outside of Jackson, they all got jobs after they won it, too
Apr 18th 2019
43
                                                   post #39 n/m
Apr 18th 2019
44
                                                        huh?
Apr 18th 2019
51
You really can’t...
Apr 17th 2019
31
Quinn Snyder
Apr 18th 2019
35
I honestly don't have a problem with him, I feel like he does the most.....
Apr 18th 2019
36
So Quin's time with Mizzou has nothing to do with not getting Truth'd?
Apr 18th 2019
38
      I don’t care about that either way, he was slightly above average...
Apr 18th 2019
41
RE: Quinn Snyder ... is a very good coach
Apr 18th 2019
50
LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?
Apr 18th 2019
45
RE: LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?
Apr 18th 2019
47
      I read, I laughed, I got bored, I put on the new Paak record
Apr 18th 2019
49
its funny hearing announcers talk about what a 'great job' Nick Nurse...
May 08th 2019
53
While winning one fewer game and LeBron left for the western conference
May 08th 2019
54
      exactly.
May 08th 2019
55
There's enough actual racism in these hires that you don't need
May 08th 2019
56
“And another one...”(c)Christopher George Latore Wallace
Jun 11th 2019
57
How black coaches are still struggling to find their place in the NBA
Mar 03rd 2020
58
It’s comical that people are crying about Kenny Atkinson getting fired...
Mar 09th 2020
59
Preach! The one thing that hasn’t changed in last 20 years
Mar 09th 2020
61
Bulls are unsurprisingly the worst example of this
Mar 09th 2020
60
I’m also sick of all this crying about Becky Hammon and Pop picking...
Mar 10th 2020
62
this is a good post .
Mar 10th 2020
63

bshelly
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Tue Apr-16-19 03:59 PM

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1. "Anchor this shit forever "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
30565 posts
Tue Apr-16-19 04:57 PM

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2. "FACTS!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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37994 posts
Tue Apr-16-19 05:44 PM

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3. "Love Mark Jackson. Avery, Byron, & Kidd were good. Mike Malone is good."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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RexLongfellow
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Tue Apr-16-19 07:21 PM

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4. "Basically"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That Lionel Hollins shit in Memphis was disgraceful...I almost forgot all about that.

Sad thing is out of the 4 major sports this league is the most progressive with black coaches, and STILL this happens.

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue Apr-16-19 07:36 PM

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5. "right..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


>Sad thing is out of the 4 major sports this league is the most
>progressive with black coaches, and STILL this happens.

The NFL is even worse, MLB is a joke too

  

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B.J.S.301
Member since Nov 30th 2005
7027 posts
Tue Apr-16-19 08:23 PM

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6. "I fucking hate Scott Brooks with a passion yo. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

That dude is a fucking moron. In every sense.

He should be an assistant coach.

  

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MEAT
Member since Feb 08th 2008
18945 posts
Tue Apr-16-19 10:19 PM

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7. "Man started a washed Kendrick Perkins"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

For no observable reason

-------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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The Real
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Wed Apr-17-19 10:54 AM

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8. "He's a terrible coach"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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Marauder21
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Wed Apr-17-19 11:03 AM

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10. "He has done less with more than most coaches will ever get"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
28528 posts
Wed Apr-17-19 11:01 AM

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9. "Luke Walton is privilege personified"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
64656 posts
Wed Apr-17-19 11:25 AM

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11. "i was legit angry when he was hired a day after being fired. "
In response to Reply # 9


          

shut up already, damn

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71221 posts
Thu Apr-18-19 03:33 PM

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46. "they fired DJ because Walton was going to become available."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

i didn't agree with that but it didnt shock me

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
258 posts
Wed Apr-17-19 12:42 PM

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12. "Malone is most definitely not a trash ass coach"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He has been instrumental in unfucking a super fucked roster on the heels of the Brian Shaw/Ty Lawson debacles and developing a whole bunch of mildly-regarded-at-best prospects into arguably the most promising core in the league.

But the main point of the post is inarguable, and even regarding Malone... it's still true in the sense that he's gotten plenty of time to get everything together. Hard to imagine a black coach would have gotten the same.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:19 PM

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14. "he had a losing record in Sacramento and walked right into another job....."
In response to Reply # 12
Wed Apr-17-19 01:22 PM by ThaTruth

  

          

>He has been instrumental in unfucking a super fucked roster
>on the heels of the Brian Shaw/Ty Lawson debacles and
>developing a whole bunch of mildly-regarded-at-best prospects
>into arguably the most promising core in the league.

Shaw was there less than 2 season what exactly are you blaming him for?

"mildly-regarded-at-best prospects"? Murray was a #7 overall pick

Jokic was a 2nd round pick but does Malone get credit for that or the GM?

Millsap is a 4-time All-Star

>But the main point of the post is inarguable, and even
>regarding Malone... it's still true in the sense that he's
>gotten plenty of time to get everything together. Hard to
>imagine a black coach would have gotten the same.

exactly

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:25 PM

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17. "He should’ve remained the Kings coach as well."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I can’t name too many coaches better than Malone in the NBA

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:26 PM

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18. "why? because he was able to pacify Boogie?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>I can’t name too many coaches better than Malone in the
>NBA

I just named a few that aren't in the NBA

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Wed Apr-17-19 03:59 PM

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30. "Cuz the team was trending in the right direction. "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Then they took 5 steps backwards.

All of those coaches aren’t better than Malone.

Sorry.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71221 posts
Thu Apr-18-19 03:42 PM

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48. "Don't pester him with facts b/w Malone is not even the worst "support""
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Dude is talking about D'Antoni, Bud and Carlisle like they were some falling-up white dudes who never won shit LMAO.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
258 posts
Wed Apr-17-19 01:45 PM

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20. "Ok, still not a trash ass coach."
In response to Reply # 14


          

Either debate that, or don't.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:56 PM

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22. "he's won a grand total of 1 playoff game, chill"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
258 posts
Wed Apr-17-19 02:04 PM

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25. "#24"
In response to Reply # 22
Wed Apr-17-19 02:09 PM by khn

          

EDIT ORRRR tell me more about how it's uncertain that Malone deserves credit for Jokic but Kidd apparently definitely does for Giannis ("players Kidd developed" referring to Budenholzer above).

Your point is strong enough without dragging good coaches into this dude.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 02:12 PM

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27. "The point is Malone got fired with a losing record in Sacramento and got..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

another job IMMEDIATELY.

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
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Wed Apr-17-19 02:19 PM

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28. "The point is he doesn't belong on your list as it was phrased."
In response to Reply # 27


          

YOU chose YOUR words. In the case of a few coaches you named, they're wrong.

  

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ThaTruth
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29. "okayplayer. n/m"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Wed Apr-17-19 07:21 PM

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32. "im glad you peeped that lol"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

funny how some coaches developed guys and others were just there while players developed themselves

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 09:37 PM

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34. "Please elaborate."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Apr-18-19 03:49 PM

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52. "that's out of the OE playbook"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

OE: Coaching in the NBA is irrelevant (tears down Pop, Kerr, whomever)

Also OE: ZOMG VENERATE THE GREAT (insert moderately successful black HC here)

It's a good thing these guys are only the champions of black coaches in their own minds, otherwise things would be even more fucked up than they already are.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:11 PM

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13. "Imagine labeling a guy as trash who has two 60-W seasons in 6 years"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:22 PM

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15. "Imagine a dude with two 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

that can't get a job

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:23 PM

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16. "I never said your other points aren't valid"
In response to Reply # 15


          

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:27 PM

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19. "so what are you saying?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:46 PM

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21. "omit Bud from your list of "trash ass coaches" immediately"
In response to Reply # 19


          

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-17-19 01:57 PM

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23. "Fuck him and you."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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Deebot
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Wed Apr-17-19 02:01 PM

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24. "Umad"
In response to Reply # 23


          

  

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ThaTruth
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26. "Very."
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ThaTruth
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33. "Budenholzer was GIVEN a playoff team in ATL that Larry Drew..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

had developed, Bud had some early success in his 2nd year winning 60 games and going to the conference finals but then the wheels quickly fell off. He CHOSE to leave and was promptly GIVEN another playoff team in Milwaukee that Jason Kidd had developed.

That’s the thing black coaches usually don’t get these type of opportunities. They usually have to take over a lottery team and build it from scratch and just as they are getting things turned around they are usuallly fired and a white coach is usually brought in to reap the benefits of the black coach’s hard work.

  

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B9
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37. "that is a bit revisionist or just ignoring a ton of drama in Atlanta"
In response to Reply # 33


          

The Atlanta team he inherited had already plateaued and there was rebuild work he and Ferry did (where is Josh Smith these days?) after he got the job to keep them relevant. That team that won 60 games and made it to the conference final had a heavy Bud influence (Millsap, Schroeder, Bazemore), but that was also peak East being trash era. He left after the management drama unfolded and this new group made it clear they were going to stick with a cheap draft rebuild despite early chest-beating to be luxury spenders: there was money for Dwight (a horrible decision on Bud's part, to be honest, to agree to that signing) but not Horford, even though they would have stayed under the cap to keep him. Then trading Korver sealed it. It is a bit unfair to hold an ownership change that stripped away the roster from a coach that was signed and paid (expensively) to be a contender.

How he got the Bucks job over whatever other candidate is another question, but he certainly hasn't failed there.

  

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ThaTruth
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39. "I said the wheels fell off, I didn’t say it was entirely his fault..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

the point is he got another job IMMEDIATELY.

  

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B9
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40. "Is there a recent CoY that has stayed unemployed? "
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ThaTruth
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42. "Yeah most of the dudes I named at the top of this post lol, that award....."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

is like the kiss of death for black coaches.

  

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B9
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43. "Outside of Jackson, they all got jobs after they won it, too"
In response to Reply # 42


          

Bud won in 16 then had his team dismantled.
There are a lot of coaches that get questionable amount of slack in the NBA, but I don't think Bud fits the bill just yet.

  

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ThaTruth
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44. "post #39 n/m"
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ConcreteCharlie
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51. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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hip bopper
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
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31. "You really can’t..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and here’s why.

In the NBA coaches are given time to produce. After that period is up then if they fire you then that coach can’t blame anyone but themselves. Blatt was fired in Cleveland after having gone to the NBA Finals without Kyrie and Love the year prior and was having a second successful season when he was fired and replaced by Lue.

Coach firings happen no matter what color you are (in the NBA). In terms of “racism” the NBA is about the most fair league in all of professional sports here in the USA. Now the NFL is a totally different story as well as baseball, and in hockey never mind coaches black players are equivalent to seeing a unicorn in that league.

  

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bshelly
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35. "Quinn Snyder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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ThaTruth
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36. "I honestly don't have a problem with him, I feel like he does the most....."
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with what he has. He basically has 22 year-old Donovan Mitchell and some guys. Gobert is a great defender but he's nothing special offensively. The rest of that team is mostly some random journeyman guys. Top-tier free-agents are not going to sign with Utah so they have to build mostly through the draft and third tier free-agents.

  

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B9
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38. "So Quin's time with Mizzou has nothing to do with not getting Truth'd? "
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He was spared the arbitrary wrath purely on merit...

sure.

  

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ThaTruth
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41. "I don’t care about that either way, he was slightly above average..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

at Mizzou, to me he’ll always be a Dookie.

But he’s been ok in Utah, it’s always going to be tough to be a legit contender there because of the reasons I stated above. Nobody wants to play there and the guys they draft that are good leave as soon as they can.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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50. "RE: Quinn Snyder ... is a very good coach"
In response to Reply # 35
Thu Apr-18-19 03:46 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

Some of the scandal stuff might have buried a black coach but in terms of just coaching Snyder has delivered the goods.

I'm encouraged that McMillan and Casey have (deservedly) made their way into the carousel. Doc now is on a level where very few coaches have reached, Pop's level, probably ahead of Pringles.

I'm discouraged about the lack of opportunity for first-time black HCs and some of the short-leash firings that don't make any damn sense.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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45. "LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I could waste my time picking this apart but I'd rather just laugh at how dumb it is.

You had very low-hanging fruit from evidence that easily provable--two black coaches with zero expectations mysteriously fired, tons of worthy assistants not getting jobs--instead you hung your hat on the same tired losers and fired shots at some of the top coaches in the game. Classic post.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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47. "RE: LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

https://www.rif.org/

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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49. "I read, I laughed, I got bored, I put on the new Paak record"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ThaTruth
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53. "its funny hearing announcers talk about what a 'great job' Nick Nurse..."
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is doing, dude took over a 59 win team and added at top 3 player lol

  

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The Real
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54. "While winning one fewer game and LeBron left for the western conference"
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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ThaTruth
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55. "exactly."
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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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56. "There's enough actual racism in these hires that you don't need "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

these biased descriptions of coaches to try and make your point

_________________________________________

  

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ThaTruth
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57. "“And another one...”(c)Christopher George Latore Wallace"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/11/report-grizzlies-hiring-jenkins-coach

  

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ThaTruth
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58. "How black coaches are still struggling to find their place in the NBA"
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https://sports.yahoo.com/how-african-american-coaches-are-still-struggling-to-find-their-place-in-the-nba-173318612.html

How black coaches are still struggling to find their place in the NBA

Vincent Goodwill
Yahoo Sports
Feb 27, 2020, 11:33 AM


Atlanta Hawks head coach Lloyd Pierce didn’t think the NBA would be his route to a head coaching job, simply because he didn’t fit the typical head-coaching profile.

He wasn’t a former player, nor did he hobnob through the ranks as a great networker. But opportunity “fell into his lap” — his words — which normally doesn’t happen for black coaches in the NBA.

“I was thrown into player development. Just hoop with NBA guys, helping them get better,” Pierce told Yahoo Sports. “I was coaching in college , which was all I really knew.

“When I got to the NBA, it wasn’t I wanted to be a head coach. I wanted to grow and get better at my craft. I had a formula. Mine was put your head down and work.”

Pierce is one of seven African-American head coaches in the NBA, and the roll call was quite easy when he was prompted: Doc Rivers, Alvin Gentry, Nate McMillan, Dwane Casey, J.B. Bickerstaff and Monty Williams.

That number may seem paltry, considering there are 30 teams and around 75 percent of the players are black, but it’s better than the other major professions sports, particularly the NFL.

“We're clearly better than every other league, but that shouldn't be our benchmark,” Rivers, the head coach of the L.A. Clippers, told Yahoo Sports recently. “That's not good enough, in my opinion. Easy excuse, but we should still be better.”

They’ve been better. At the start of the 2012 season, 14 head coaches were black, the highest mark in NBA history.

The opportunities have been cut, for various reasons, but those arguments can be applied to other coaches who’ve managed to keep their jobs through tumultuous situations.

“You always want more, better opportunities,” Casey, the head coach of the Detroit Pistons, told Yahoo Sports. “I don't think anybody in the NBA can say African-Americans don't have the opportunity to get the job done. Whether you get longer leashes as other coaches, that's another story. But the opportunity is all you can ask for.”

Rivers is the dean of the group, a Yoda of sorts. He won a championship with the Boston Celtics in 2008 and is one of the longest-tenured head coaches in the league, joining the Clippers for the 2013-14 season.

Rivers is acutely aware that he’s the anomaly, in his third NBA head-coaching job and being the calming presence while steering the Clippers franchise away from embarrassment after the Donald Sterling scandal in 2014.

“We’ve taken a hit lately, in my opinion,” Rivers said about the state of black coaching in the NBA. “We gotta get back to it. I don't know why, it just seems to go in ebbs and flows.”

As easily as Pierce can name the men who walk the sideline, Rivers can name men who haven’t gotten calls for repeat opportunities — probably the aspect that bothers him more than sheer numbers.

“I can name a bunch of guys. Ty should be coaching. Mike Woodson, you look at his record and he couldn't get another job,” Rivers said.

Woodson coached the Hawks to three playoff appearances from 2008-10 and then had a winning record with the Knicks in nearly three seasons from 2012-14. The Knicks haven’t been to the playoffs since Woodson was there.

Lue is on Rivers’ staff not long after leading the Cleveland Cavaliers to an NBA title in 2016 and three straight Finals appearances before being fired six games into the 2018-19 season. He was in talks to coach the Lakers last summer, but the sides couldn’t reach an agreement, so he joined Rivers with the Clippers.

There are others, coaches who won’t win in the battle of public opinion but have won on the sidelines. Jason Kidd is an assistant with Frank Vogel for the Lakers, alongside Lionel Hollins. Mark Jackson established the Golden State Warriors as playoff contenders before being dismissed in 2014, as Steve Kerr developed them into champions the next season. Jackson has been a commentator for ABC/ESPN but hasn’t gotten a serious look since.

“We just gotta stay at it. Keep at it. Keep meeting people,” Rivers said. “We gotta get more access for the black assistants to meet owners. You hire who you're comfortable with, who you have a relationship with. Our league does a good job of that, but we can do better so we can establish relationships.”

Pierce has a circle, even though he doesn’t consider himself in that group of coaches who put themselves out there at every turn. In his group chat are men who are in the same boat — guys who didn’t play professionally, started out in the video room and have grinded their way to better spots on the bench, even if there is a glass ceiling.

It’s Pierce, David Vanterpool (Timberwolves), Phil Handy (Lakers), Bickerstaff (Cavs), former Knicks coach David Fizdale, Jamahl Mosley (Mavs), Johnnie Bryant (Jazz) and J.J. Outlaw (Cavs). They all trade similar war stories about the business, what they hope to accomplish and the struggles they encounter daily. Pierce feels Vanterpool has been knocking on the door long enough, interviewing for a number of jobs over the last few years but not getting the opportunity to run his own show.

“The numbers are what the numbers are,” Pierce said. “Is it ever gonna be 12? Is it ever gonna be predominantly black coaches?”

He points upstairs, and while agreeing with Rivers that getting in front of ownership is important, having more color on the executive side is critical.

“How do you know guys are really getting their opportunities? If you start seeing more black coaches in addition to black general managers,” Pierce said. “That's where the growth will be, the perception of opportunity. You'll see more black coaches if you see more black GM’s.”

That number doesn’t seem to be on the rise, which could contribute to the lack of quality jobs black coaches are offered. Pierce is in a rebuilding situation in Atlanta, Williams took over a team in Phoenix that hasn’t made the playoffs since 2010. Many had their doubts when Fizdale took over the Knicks in May 2018, and he was fired earlier this season.

Casey was on Rick Carlisle’s staff in Dallas when the Mavs won the 2011 NBA title, three years removed from a short stint in Minnesota where he was fired after going 20-20 to start the 2006-07 season.

When the Toronto Raptors came calling in the summer of 2011, Casey knew he wasn’t in a position to turn down this chance even though it wasn’t a marquee job.

“You build up a résumé where you can be choosy on the jobs you take. Unless you've won, I don't think you can be choosy,” Casey said. “Rick told me, you take it and you build it up. That’s what we did.”

By Casey’s third season, the Raptors were in the playoffs and two years later, they made the conference finals. Even though LeBron James and the Cavaliers ended their season three years in a row, Casey helped turn a bad job into a good job — and was fired before the Raptors acquired Kawhi Leonard, who led them to the 2019 title.

Casey’s situation is the outlier; Lue was in the right place, at the right time of sorts, getting the Cavaliers job when the David Blatt experiment went awry. Those chances come few and far between for black coaches, and their successes don’t stick to the masses as much as the failures.

“Blacks aren’t a monolithic group. They don’t give us the same chances or look at each individual case,” a high-ranking African-American executive told Yahoo Sports. “If Lloyd Pierce goes into a tough situation or Fizdale, it’s not an indictment. Blacks are put in position, historically, that they have to take the worst circumstances and make it right in the short period of time.

“One black guy gets a shot to hold a position, if he fails then the establishment looks at it and says black guys can’t do that. White counterparts fail and fail up all the time, and get replaced by more white guys.”

All job openings aren’t created equal, and many are rebuilding situations with terrible circumstances — for some. Kerr inherited a ready-to-win team in the Bay Area — after passing up the Knicks job earlier in the coaching cycle. When the Oklahoma City Thunder still employed Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook in 2015, they hired Billy Donovan from the college ranks to replace Scott Brooks.

Most recently, the Milwaukee Bucks and Lakers have been the “hot” jobs, and they’ve gone to Mike Budenholzer and Vogel, respectively.

Each situation has its own complexities, but in aggregate the results reveal the quality positions don’t make their way to African-American coaches.

It’s clear black coaching candidates see the trends, and even former accomplished players who’ve done their time as assistants realize how difficult it is to break through. Jerry Stackhouse had aspirations to be a head coach and was an assistant with the Raptors and Grizzlies, leading the Raptors’ then-D-League team to a title in 2016-17. But when Vanderbilt came calling, it was obvious he didn’t see a path in the NBA.

Patrick Ewing had years of coaching experience but didn’t get a sniff, going back to his alma mater, Georgetown. Juwan Howard spent years on Erik Spoelstra’s bench, but when nothing serious developed he went to Michigan, where he made his name as a Fab Fiver in the early 1990s.

The pipeline isn’t empty, but perhaps it’s underserved, making Rivers’ call for networking more poignant. Lost in his words is the need for allies in the establishment to champion black coaches.

Casey had one in Carlisle, noting Carlisle put him in charge of the defense during his years in Dallas, while Terry Stotts helmed the offense. Stan Van Gundy would tell anyone who asked that Ewing could be a head coach, and a good one, but it fell on deaf ears.

Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin had Scott Skiles in his corner, with Skiles telling him the second he was done playing he would bring him on as an assistant. Griffin played in Chicago for Skiles from 2006-08, near the end of his career.

“He was true to his word,” Griffin said. “I was cut the Bucks, he was the coach. … He hired me right on the spot. I went straight from the locker room to the coaches room.”

Highly regarded and respected, Griffin should be atop many teams’ lists should they have openings. But if he doesn’t break through, it’ll be another example of a downward trend, even if it’s just cyclical.

“My next ambition is to be a head coach,” Griffin said. “I think you gotta put as many things in your favor. You need to know the right people, have the right work ethic, the right resources, support group. It's not easy to get one of these jobs. If that means networking or pulling some all-nighters, it's worth it.”

  

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ThaTruth
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59. "It’s comical that people are crying about Kenny Atkinson getting fired..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

from a “playoff team” with a losing record. Dude had ONE winning season last year with a 42-40 record and has a .383 winning percentage and folks are trying act like he’s Red Auerbach.

Dwayne Case got fired coming off a 59 win season and 5 straight playoff appearances.

Jason Kidd got fired mid season with a WINNING record and his team in playoff position.

I’m even going to go over everything I said in OP last year. The FACTS were reiterated in post #58 directly about this one in the Yahoo Sports article from last week.

  

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calminvasion
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61. "Preach! The one thing that hasn’t changed in last 20 years"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Maybe more chances, but that leash disparity is still just as wide

  

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mashpg89
Member since Dec 08th 2004
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60. "Bulls are unsurprisingly the worst example of this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

One black head coach in the entire franchise history, and the only team to not hire a non-white head coach since 2004 besides the Spurs with Pop.

Bulls culture is militaristic loyalty with drill sergeant head coaches hired to whip their young black players into shape and teach them how to be men. Paxson and Boylen are literal skinheads and Gar is a Foreman.

  

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ThaTruth
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62. "I’m also sick of all this crying about Becky Hammon and Pop picking..."
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Duncan over her to lead to team. Duncan was a coach on floor for 20 years for Pop before Hammon was even thought of.

Where was this same outrage for people like Juwan Howard, Patrick Ewing and Jerry Stackhouse who had to go back could the college level to get jobs.

  

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guru0509
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63. "this is a good post ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Let's start with Mike Brown:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownmi99c.html
>
>In his first stint in Cleveland he went to playoffs every
>year, he took Lebron and some dudes from the club to the NBA
>Finals in his second year, won 60+ games his last 2 seasons
>and was fired and had to go work for ESPN.
>
>A year later he was hired by the Lakers and went to playoffs
>in the lockout shortened season, the next season he was fired
>after 5 games due to a slow start when newly acquired Steve
>Nash was hurt, Dwight was recovering from back surgery and
>Kobe was playing with an injured foot and couldn't practice.
>
>He had a second run in Cleveland with Kyrie and some bums and
>had his first losing season over 82 games and was fired again
>a year later.
>
>He sat at home for 2 years until he was hired to be an
>assistant in Golden State. When Steve Kerr was out he led the
>Warriors to a 12-0 post season record but got zero credit for
>it. Luke Walton who Brown replaced went 39-4 in the regular
>season when Kerr was out and continues to get job after job
>because of that. Meanwhile Brown's name doesn't even come up
>for head coaching jobs any more even though he's only 49 and
>his .616 winning percentage is top 10 in NBA history for
>people that have coached more than 3 seasons.
>
>Avery Johnson:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/johnsav01c.html
>
>Won 60 games and went to the NBA Finals his first full season
>as head coach in Dallas, won 67 games the 2nd year but got
>upset in the first round because MVP Dirk bitched up. The
>following season won 51 games but lost in the first round to
>Byron Scott's Hornet's and was fired. He went to work for ESPN
>for 2 years and then took over a bad Nets team and was fired
>in his 3rd season with a .500 record just as they were
>starting to turn around. He went back to TV and ended coaching
>in college. Again his name doesn't even come up anymore for
>NBA head coaching jobs despite his .577 career winning
>percentage. The guy that replace him in Dallas Rick Carlisle
>won a title in his 3rd year but since had had 4 winning
>seasons in 8 years and has had a losing record the last 3
>years but his job security isn't even in question.
>
>Byron Scott:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/scottby01c.html
>
>Took over a trash Nets franchise and had them in the NBA
>Finals in his 2nd and 3rd year. Was fired midway through the
>4th season with a winning record. Took over a trash New
>Orleans franchise, had them in the playoffs his 4th & 5th
>seasons yet was fired 9 games into the 6th season. Took over a
>trash Cleveland team after Lebron left the first time and was
>fired after 3 seasons before he was able to turn them
>around...
>https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2013/04/cleveland_cavaliers_players_st.html
>Took over a trash Laker team in Kobe's final 2 years while
>trying to develop younger players but was again fired before
>he was able to finish the job. He's now doing tv because he is
>not even on the NBA coaching radar...
>
>Mark Jackson:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/jacksma01c.html
>
>Took over a trash Warriors franchise and had them in the
>playoffs in years 2 and 3 and them was fired so Steve Kerr
>could reap the benefits of the players Mark Jackson developed.
>Now he's doing tv and barely gets a whiff for other NBA head
>coaching jobs despite a .526 winning percentage.
>
>
>
>
>
>Meanwhile these trash ass white coaches lose and walk right
>into another head coaching job, they don't have to go back to
>being assistants or doing tv work...
>
>I already talked about Rick Carlisle, 2011 was a long time
>ago...
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/carliri01c.html
>
>Luke Walton:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/waltolu01c.html
>Rode Steve Kerr's coattails off the player's Mark Jackson
>developed, didn't do shit in his first head coaching job with
>the Lakers, after they "agreed to part ways" he was promptly
>given another head coaching job in Sacramento despite a .398
>winning percentage.
>
>Mike D'Antoni:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html
>Got his first head coaching job with Phoenix and had some
>success but couldn't get them past the conference finals so he
>left there and went to the Knicks where he was mostly trash
>but still given the Lakers head coaching job and he ran them
>into the ground. He was an assistant in Philly for a year then
>was given the Houston job and is still trying to get them to
>the Finals.
>
>Mike Budenholzer
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/budenmi99c.html
>
>A Greg Popovich disciple that had some early success with his
>first head coaching job in Atlanta but the wheels fell off
>quickly. Eventually he and the Hawks "agreed to part ways"
>because white coaches rarely get fired they just decide to
>leave. He was given the Bucks job and is reaping the benefits
>of players developed by Jason Kidd.
>
>Brett Brown:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownbr99c.html
>
>Another Pop disciple, had 4 terrible seasons in Philly during
>"the process" but some of the young players he had eventually
>developed and they had some success the last 2 years but his
>teams have looked shaky in the playoffs but the players need
>to figure it out because white coaches are never blamed for
>their teams struggles.
>
>Scott Brooks:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brooksc01c.html
>
>Took over a bad OKC franchise that had some great draft picks
>and he eventually developed them into a contender than made it
>to the NBA Finals in his 4th year but failed to reach those
>same heights after that and was fired then CHOSE to sit out
>for a year:
>https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--scott-brooks-passing-on-interviews--likely-sitting-out-next-season-160503597.html
>
>He was then given the Wizards job that continued to
>underachieve despite an All-Star back-court but the player's
>need to figure it out because it is never a white coach's
>fault.
>
>Dave Joerger:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/joergda99c.html
>
>Took over and Memphis team that had fired Lionel Hollins after
>a 56 win season and a trip to the conference finals. Joeger
>never got anywhere close to that and lost in the first round 2
>out of 3 years. Was fired but was promptly given another head
>coaching job in Sacremento where despite some young talent he
>wasn't able to finish over .500 in 3 seasons and was fired
>again but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets another head
>coaching job next season.
>
>Mike Malone:
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/malonmi99c.html
>
>He was trash in Sacremento and was fired and stepped right
>into the Denver job and has them doing well but he may be
>over-matched in the playoffs.
>
>Nick Nurse
>https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/nurseni01c.html
>
>We'll see, somehow as an assistant under Dwane Casey, Nurse
>was credited with everything right with the Raptors while
>everything that went wrong with the Raptors was blamed on
>Casey who was fired. Nurse won 58 games, 1 less than the 59
>Casey won in his last year we'll see how far they get in the
>playoffs with the addition of Kawhi Leonard.
>
>
>
>
>
>These are just a few of the obvious examples, there are a lot
>more that have been more subtle...

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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