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Forum nameOkay Sports
Topic subject Can we talk about the blatant racism in NBA coaching hires?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2693565
2693565, Can we talk about the blatant racism in NBA coaching hires?
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-16-19 03:07 PM
Let's start with Mike Brown:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownmi99c.html

In his first stint in Cleveland he went to playoffs every year, he took Lebron and some dudes from the club to the NBA Finals in his second year, won 60+ games his last 2 seasons and was fired and had to go work for ESPN.

A year later he was hired by the Lakers and went to playoffs in the lockout shortened season, the next season he was fired after 5 games due to a slow start when newly acquired Steve Nash was hurt, Dwight was recovering from back surgery and Kobe was playing with an injured foot and couldn't practice.

He had a second run in Cleveland with Kyrie and some bums and had his first losing season over 82 games and was fired again a year later.

He sat at home for 2 years until he was hired to be an assistant in Golden State. When Steve Kerr was out he led the Warriors to a 12-0 post season record but got zero credit for it. Luke Walton who Brown replaced went 39-4 in the regular season when Kerr was out and continues to get job after job because of that. Meanwhile Brown's name doesn't even come up for head coaching jobs any more even though he's only 49 and his .616 winning percentage is top 10 in NBA history for people that have coached more than 3 seasons.

Avery Johnson:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/johnsav01c.html

Won 60 games and went to the NBA Finals his first full season as head coach in Dallas, won 67 games the 2nd year but got upset in the first round because MVP Dirk bitched up. The following season won 51 games but lost in the first round to Byron Scott's Hornet's and was fired. He went to work for ESPN for 2 years and then took over a bad Nets team and was fired in his 3rd season with a .500 record just as they were starting to turn around. He went back to TV and ended coaching in college. Again his name doesn't even come up anymore for NBA head coaching jobs despite his .577 career winning percentage. The guy that replace him in Dallas Rick Carlisle won a title in his 3rd year but since had had 4 winning seasons in 8 years and has had a losing record the last 3 years but his job security isn't even in question.

Byron Scott:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/scottby01c.html

Took over a trash Nets franchise and had them in the NBA Finals in his 2nd and 3rd year. Was fired midway through the 4th season with a winning record. Took over a trash New Orleans franchise, had them in the playoffs his 4th & 5th seasons yet was fired 9 games into the 6th season. Took over a trash Cleveland team after Lebron left the first time and was fired after 3 seasons before he was able to turn them around...
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2013/04/cleveland_cavaliers_players_st.html
Took over a trash Laker team in Kobe's final 2 years while trying to develop younger players but was again fired before he was able to finish the job. He's now doing tv because he is not even on the NBA coaching radar...

Mark Jackson:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/jacksma01c.html

Took over a trash Warriors franchise and had them in the playoffs in years 2 and 3 and them was fired so Steve Kerr could reap the benefits of the players Mark Jackson developed. Now he's doing tv and barely gets a whiff for other NBA head coaching jobs despite a .526 winning percentage.





Meanwhile these trash ass white coaches lose and walk right into another head coaching job, they don't have to go back to being assistants or doing tv work...

I already talked about Rick Carlisle, 2011 was a long time ago...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/carliri01c.html

Luke Walton:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/waltolu01c.html
Rode Steve Kerr's coattails off the player's Mark Jackson developed, didn't do shit in his first head coaching job with the Lakers, after they "agreed to part ways" he was promptly given another head coaching job in Sacramento despite a .398 winning percentage.

Mike D'Antoni:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html
Got his first head coaching job with Phoenix and had some success but couldn't get them past the conference finals so he left there and went to the Knicks where he was mostly trash but still given the Lakers head coaching job and he ran them into the ground. He was an assistant in Philly for a year then was given the Houston job and is still trying to get them to the Finals.

Mike Budenholzer
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/budenmi99c.html

A Greg Popovich disciple that had some early success with his first head coaching job in Atlanta but the wheels fell off quickly. Eventually he and the Hawks "agreed to part ways" because white coaches rarely get fired they just decide to leave. He was given the Bucks job and is reaping the benefits of players developed by Jason Kidd.

Brett Brown:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownbr99c.html

Another Pop disciple, had 4 terrible seasons in Philly during "the process" but some of the young players he had eventually developed and they had some success the last 2 years but his teams have looked shaky in the playoffs but the players need to figure it out because white coaches are never blamed for their teams struggles.

Scott Brooks:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brooksc01c.html

Took over a bad OKC franchise that had some great draft picks and he eventually developed them into a contender than made it to the NBA Finals in his 4th year but failed to reach those same heights after that and was fired then CHOSE to sit out for a year:
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--scott-brooks-passing-on-interviews--likely-sitting-out-next-season-160503597.html

He was then given the Wizards job that continued to underachieve despite an All-Star back-court but the player's need to figure it out because it is never a white coach's fault.

Dave Joerger:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/joergda99c.html

Took over and Memphis team that had fired Lionel Hollins after a 56 win season and a trip to the conference finals. Joeger never got anywhere close to that and lost in the first round 2 out of 3 years. Was fired but was promptly given another head coaching job in Sacremento where despite some young talent he wasn't able to finish over .500 in 3 seasons and was fired again but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets another head coaching job next season.

Mike Malone:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/malonmi99c.html

He was trash in Sacremento and was fired and stepped right into the Denver job and has them doing well but he may be over-matched in the playoffs.

Nick Nurse
https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/nurseni01c.html

We'll see, somehow as an assistant under Dwane Casey, Nurse was credited with everything right with the Raptors while everything that went wrong with the Raptors was blamed on Casey who was fired. Nurse won 58 games, 1 less than the 59 Casey won in his last year we'll see how far they get in the playoffs with the addition of Kawhi Leonard.





These are just a few of the obvious examples, there are a lot more that have been more subtle...
2693577, Anchor this shit forever
Posted by bshelly, Tue Apr-16-19 03:59 PM
2693584, FACTS!!!
Posted by isaaaa, Tue Apr-16-19 04:57 PM

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com
2693587, Love Mark Jackson. Avery, Byron, & Kidd were good. Mike Malone is good.
Posted by TheRealBillyOcean, Tue Apr-16-19 05:44 PM
2693590, Basically
Posted by RexLongfellow, Tue Apr-16-19 07:21 PM
That Lionel Hollins shit in Memphis was disgraceful...I almost forgot all about that.

Sad thing is out of the 4 major sports this league is the most progressive with black coaches, and STILL this happens.
2693593, right...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Apr-16-19 07:36 PM

>Sad thing is out of the 4 major sports this league is the most
>progressive with black coaches, and STILL this happens.

The NFL is even worse, MLB is a joke too
2693597, I fucking hate Scott Brooks with a passion yo.
Posted by B.J.S.301, Tue Apr-16-19 08:23 PM
That dude is a fucking moron. In every sense.

He should be an assistant coach.
2693613, Man started a washed Kendrick Perkins
Posted by MEAT, Tue Apr-16-19 10:19 PM
For no observable reason
2693661, He's a terrible coach
Posted by The Real, Wed Apr-17-19 10:54 AM

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2693663, He has done less with more than most coaches will ever get
Posted by Marauder21, Wed Apr-17-19 11:03 AM
2693662, Luke Walton is privilege personified
Posted by ErnestLee, Wed Apr-17-19 11:01 AM
2693667, i was legit angry when he was hired a day after being fired.
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Apr-17-19 11:25 AM
2693797, they fired DJ because Walton was going to become available.
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:33 PM
i didn't agree with that but it didnt shock me
2693669, Malone is most definitely not a trash ass coach
Posted by khn, Wed Apr-17-19 12:42 PM
He has been instrumental in unfucking a super fucked roster on the heels of the Brian Shaw/Ty Lawson debacles and developing a whole bunch of mildly-regarded-at-best prospects into arguably the most promising core in the league.

But the main point of the post is inarguable, and even regarding Malone... it's still true in the sense that he's gotten plenty of time to get everything together. Hard to imagine a black coach would have gotten the same.
2693673, he had a losing record in Sacramento and walked right into another job...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:19 PM
>He has been instrumental in unfucking a super fucked roster
>on the heels of the Brian Shaw/Ty Lawson debacles and
>developing a whole bunch of mildly-regarded-at-best prospects
>into arguably the most promising core in the league.

Shaw was there less than 2 season what exactly are you blaming him for?

"mildly-regarded-at-best prospects"? Murray was a #7 overall pick

Jokic was a 2nd round pick but does Malone get credit for that or the GM?

Millsap is a 4-time All-Star

>But the main point of the post is inarguable, and even
>regarding Malone... it's still true in the sense that he's
>gotten plenty of time to get everything together. Hard to
>imagine a black coach would have gotten the same.

exactly
2693677, He should’ve remained the Kings coach as well.
Posted by TheRealBillyOcean, Wed Apr-17-19 01:25 PM
I can’t name too many coaches better than Malone in the NBA
2693678, why? because he was able to pacify Boogie?
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:26 PM
>I can’t name too many coaches better than Malone in the
>NBA

I just named a few that aren't in the NBA
2693708, Cuz the team was trending in the right direction.
Posted by TheRealBillyOcean, Wed Apr-17-19 03:59 PM
Then they took 5 steps backwards.

All of those coaches aren’t better than Malone.

Sorry.
2693799, Don't pester him with facts b/w Malone is not even the worst "support"
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:42 PM
Dude is talking about D'Antoni, Bud and Carlisle like they were some falling-up white dudes who never won shit LMAO.
2693680, Ok, still not a trash ass coach.
Posted by khn, Wed Apr-17-19 01:45 PM
Either debate that, or don't.
2693683, he's won a grand total of 1 playoff game, chill
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:56 PM
2693687, #24
Posted by khn, Wed Apr-17-19 02:04 PM
EDIT ORRRR tell me more about how it's uncertain that Malone deserves credit for Jokic but Kidd apparently definitely does for Giannis ("players Kidd developed" referring to Budenholzer above).

Your point is strong enough without dragging good coaches into this dude.
2693690, The point is Malone got fired with a losing record in Sacramento and got...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 02:12 PM
another job IMMEDIATELY.
2693693, The point is he doesn't belong on your list as it was phrased.
Posted by khn, Wed Apr-17-19 02:19 PM
YOU chose YOUR words. In the case of a few coaches you named, they're wrong.
2693694, okayplayer. n/m
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 02:21 PM
2693726, im glad you peeped that lol
Posted by cgonz00cc, Wed Apr-17-19 07:21 PM
funny how some coaches developed guys and others were just there while players developed themselves
2693732, Please elaborate.
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 09:37 PM
2693803, that's out of the OE playbook
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:49 PM
OE: Coaching in the NBA is irrelevant (tears down Pop, Kerr, whomever)

Also OE: ZOMG VENERATE THE GREAT (insert moderately successful black HC here)

It's a good thing these guys are only the champions of black coaches in their own minds, otherwise things would be even more fucked up than they already are.
2693671, Imagine labeling a guy as trash who has two 60-W seasons in 6 years
Posted by Deebot, Wed Apr-17-19 01:11 PM
2693674, Imagine a dude with two 60 win seasons and a Finals appearance...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:22 PM
that can't get a job
2693675, I never said your other points aren't valid
Posted by Deebot, Wed Apr-17-19 01:23 PM
2693679, so what are you saying?
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:27 PM
2693681, omit Bud from your list of "trash ass coaches" immediately
Posted by Deebot, Wed Apr-17-19 01:46 PM
2693684, Fuck him and you.
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 01:57 PM
2693686, Umad
Posted by Deebot, Wed Apr-17-19 02:01 PM
2693689, Very.
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 02:11 PM
2693731, Budenholzer was GIVEN a playoff team in ATL that Larry Drew...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed Apr-17-19 09:36 PM
had developed, Bud had some early success in his 2nd year winning 60 games and going to the conference finals but then the wheels quickly fell off. He CHOSE to leave and was promptly GIVEN another playoff team in Milwaukee that Jason Kidd had developed.

That’s the thing black coaches usually don’t get these type of opportunities. They usually have to take over a lottery team and build it from scratch and just as they are getting things turned around they are usuallly fired and a white coach is usually brought in to reap the benefits of the black coach’s hard work.
2693762, that is a bit revisionist or just ignoring a ton of drama in Atlanta
Posted by B9, Thu Apr-18-19 09:33 AM
The Atlanta team he inherited had already plateaued and there was rebuild work he and Ferry did (where is Josh Smith these days?) after he got the job to keep them relevant. That team that won 60 games and made it to the conference final had a heavy Bud influence (Millsap, Schroeder, Bazemore), but that was also peak East being trash era. He left after the management drama unfolded and this new group made it clear they were going to stick with a cheap draft rebuild despite early chest-beating to be luxury spenders: there was money for Dwight (a horrible decision on Bud's part, to be honest, to agree to that signing) but not Horford, even though they would have stayed under the cap to keep him. Then trading Korver sealed it. It is a bit unfair to hold an ownership change that stripped away the roster from a coach that was signed and paid (expensively) to be a contender.

How he got the Bucks job over whatever other candidate is another question, but he certainly hasn't failed there.
2693776, I said the wheels fell off, I didn’t say it was entirely his fault...
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 11:06 AM
the point is he got another job IMMEDIATELY.
2693778, Is there a recent CoY that has stayed unemployed?
Posted by B9, Thu Apr-18-19 11:16 AM
2693781, Yeah most of the dudes I named at the top of this post lol, that award...
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 11:22 AM
is like the kiss of death for black coaches.
2693782, Outside of Jackson, they all got jobs after they won it, too
Posted by B9, Thu Apr-18-19 11:32 AM
Bud won in 16 then had his team dismantled.
There are a lot of coaches that get questionable amount of slack in the NBA, but I don't think Bud fits the bill just yet.
2693783, post #39 n/m
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 12:04 PM
2693802, huh?
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:47 PM
2693714, You really can’t...
Posted by hip bopper, Wed Apr-17-19 04:46 PM
and here’s why.

In the NBA coaches are given time to produce. After that period is up then if they fire you then that coach can’t blame anyone but themselves. Blatt was fired in Cleveland after having gone to the NBA Finals without Kyrie and Love the year prior and was having a second successful season when he was fired and replaced by Lue.

Coach firings happen no matter what color you are (in the NBA). In terms of “racism” the NBA is about the most fair league in all of professional sports here in the USA. Now the NFL is a totally different story as well as baseball, and in hockey never mind coaches black players are equivalent to seeing a unicorn in that league.
2693754, Quinn Snyder
Posted by bshelly, Thu Apr-18-19 05:56 AM
2693756, I honestly don't have a problem with him, I feel like he does the most...
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 07:10 AM
with what he has. He basically has 22 year-old Donovan Mitchell and some guys. Gobert is a great defender but he's nothing special offensively. The rest of that team is mostly some random journeyman guys. Top-tier free-agents are not going to sign with Utah so they have to build mostly through the draft and third tier free-agents.
2693763, So Quin's time with Mizzou has nothing to do with not getting Truth'd?
Posted by B9, Thu Apr-18-19 09:36 AM
He was spared the arbitrary wrath purely on merit...

sure.

2693779, I don’t care about that either way, he was slightly above average...
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 11:18 AM
at Mizzou, to me he’ll always be a Dookie.

But he’s been ok in Utah, it’s always going to be tough to be a legit contender there because of the reasons I stated above. Nobody wants to play there and the guys they draft that are good leave as soon as they can.
2693801, RE: Quinn Snyder ... is a very good coach
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:46 PM
Some of the scandal stuff might have buried a black coach but in terms of just coaching Snyder has delivered the goods.

I'm encouraged that McMillan and Casey have (deservedly) made their way into the carousel. Doc now is on a level where very few coaches have reached, Pop's level, probably ahead of Pringles.

I'm discouraged about the lack of opportunity for first-time black HCs and some of the short-leash firings that don't make any damn sense.
2693796, LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:27 PM
I could waste my time picking this apart but I'd rather just laugh at how dumb it is.

You had very low-hanging fruit from evidence that easily provable--two black coaches with zero expectations mysteriously fired, tons of worthy assistants not getting jobs--instead you hung your hat on the same tired losers and fired shots at some of the top coaches in the game. Classic post.
2693798, RE: LOL D'Antoni, Budenholzer and Malone are on the trash list?
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Apr-18-19 03:38 PM
https://www.rif.org/
2693800, I read, I laughed, I got bored, I put on the new Paak record
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Apr-18-19 03:43 PM
2695366, its funny hearing announcers talk about what a 'great job' Nick Nurse...
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed May-08-19 11:46 AM
is doing, dude took over a 59 win team and added at top 3 player lol
2695367, While winning one fewer game and LeBron left for the western conference
Posted by The Real, Wed May-08-19 11:56 AM

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2695368, exactly.
Posted by ThaTruth, Wed May-08-19 12:09 PM
2695400, There's enough actual racism in these hires that you don't need
Posted by icecold21, Wed May-08-19 02:34 PM
these biased descriptions of coaches to try and make your point
2698735, “And another one...”(c)Christopher George Latore Wallace
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Jun-11-19 11:40 AM
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/11/report-grizzlies-hiring-jenkins-coach