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Subject: "Jason Witten: Hall of Fame?" Previous topic | Next topic
will_5198
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Thu Sep-17-15 12:53 PM

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"Poll question: Jason Witten: Hall of Fame?"


  

          

Poll result (17 votes)
Undoubtedly, right now (11 votes)Vote
Needs a few more years (1 votes)Vote
Not ever (5 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Stats-wise, no doubt
Sep 17th 2015
1
crazy that Tony Gonzalez has 1/3 more receiving yards than Witten
Sep 17th 2015
2
outside of any agenda-ing or Cowboy hate...
Sep 17th 2015
3
Witten should finish second in total TE yards by a healthy margin.
Sep 17th 2015
4
Age isn't that big a factor
Sep 18th 2015
16
plus side:
Sep 17th 2015
5
To be fair...
Sep 17th 2015
6
      that's true, I just looked at Jimmy Graham's numbers and
Sep 17th 2015
7
Has the numbers but fails the eye test
Sep 17th 2015
8
Should the changing nature of the game affect HOF considerations?
Sep 17th 2015
9
i think that is overstating it but yes obviously the standards are risin...
Sep 18th 2015
14
That the thing tho...
Sep 19th 2015
21
1st ballot.
Sep 17th 2015
10
Fuck yes, 1st ballot, and I hate the Cowboys.
Sep 17th 2015
11
Say it again.
Sep 18th 2015
18
Yes but I'd stop short of first ballot
Sep 17th 2015
12
he'll get in ..not 1st ballot tho
Sep 17th 2015
13
He's A 1st Ballot HOF...Just Not the Best TE Ever
Sep 18th 2015
15
Let's not toss this first-ballot thing around too casually
Sep 18th 2015
19
      He'd need to play 3-4 more years and get closer to Tony G's numbers.
Sep 19th 2015
24
           How many first-ballot TEs have there been? Ever? Exactly zero.
Sep 20th 2015
25
                ... I was agreeing with you. Why are you telling me to stop?
Sep 20th 2015
29
                     Even if he has career seasons, he will not be first ballot
Sep 20th 2015
30
fa sho
Sep 18th 2015
17
numbers and Longevity
Sep 19th 2015
20
With 61st pick the Eagles take LJ Smith...With the 69th, the Cowboys
Sep 19th 2015
22
didn't realize that. i woulda disliked LJ much more had i known. nm
Apr 27th 2018
33
Heath better.
Sep 19th 2015
23
i'll never forget this play, smh
Sep 20th 2015
26
watching him run away from M's fastest guys was a HOF bummer lol
Sep 20th 2015
27
haha, SEC speed
Sep 20th 2015
28
announced his retirement today*
Apr 27th 2018
31
the answer to OP is resounding yes btw
Apr 27th 2018
32
happy trails to a worthy foe
Apr 29th 2018
35
based on how he plays against the Giants...
Apr 27th 2018
34

Mack
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:04 PM

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1. "Stats-wise, no doubt"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-17-15 01:05 PM by Mack

          

Jason Witten compared to Hall of Fame tight ends

Tight end	 REC	 YDS	 YDS/GM	 TD   Pro Bowl  All-Pro
Jason Witten	 943	 10,502	 55.0	 57	9	2
Shannon Sharpe	 815	 10,060	 49.3	 62	8	4
Ozzie Newsome	 662	 7,980	 40.3	 47	7	3
Jackie Smith	 480	 7,918	 37.7	 40	5	4
Kellen Winslow	 541	 6,741	 61.8	 45	5	2
Mike Ditka	 427	 5,812	 36.8	 43	5	3
John Mackey	 331	 5,236	 37.7	 38	5	0
Dave Casper	 378	 5,216	 35.5	 52	5	3
Charlie Sanders	 336	 4,817	 37.6	 31	3	1

  

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will_5198
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:09 PM

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2. "crazy that Tony Gonzalez has 1/3 more receiving yards than Witten"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

 

--------

  

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Dstl1
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:09 PM

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3. "outside of any agenda-ing or Cowboy hate..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

there's simply no way he can't be...and I'd gladly listen to anyone who could make a real argument against it.

...cleaned up my act, made a few violent songs...but, they wack like Glen Rice with New Balance on - Sean Price

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:16 PM

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4. "Witten should finish second in total TE yards by a healthy margin."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-17-15 01:18 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

He's got a 500 yard lead on Gates, a couple more games before Gates returns from suspension, and he's younger than Gates.

He'll also easily crack the top ten players ever in terms of most receptions of all time, and it's weirdly not impossible that he could crack the top five.

He's way behind on TDs (not even ahead of Vernon Davis!), where guys like Gronk and Graham will pass him the second he retires-- and feasibly could even before that. That's an easy knock against him...

... but then again, he's also crushed the total numbers in general of most of the older TEs who are already in the HOF.

I think he gets in. Not first ballot.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Fri Sep-18-15 06:46 AM

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16. "Age isn't that big a factor "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

When comparing him to Gates. He's played more games and even with that he's not that far ahead in yards. Gates blows him out of the water when it comes to TD receptions.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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will_5198
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5. "plus side:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

- he's white
- 10 Pro Bowls
- he's played for a single major media market team his entire career
- he has the numbers for now (although in 5-10 years, the current wave of tight ends will lap him)
- superb route runner
- fairly clutch player against division rivals
- never had an issue with the media
- he can actually block

negative side:
- lean postseason resume
- Pro Bowls are shitty gauges of player accomplishment
- his career numbers are very good, but he can also be seen as a compiler (55 ypg average)
- never scored double-digit TDs in any season
- doesn't pass the eye test as an "explosive, special talent", and media members couldn't tell you the difference between a good route runner and bad one anyway
- nobody cares about tight ends who can block

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Frank Longo
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:21 PM

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6. "To be fair..."
In response to Reply # 5
Thu Sep-17-15 01:22 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

>- he has the numbers for now (although in 5-10 years, the
>current wave of tight ends will lap him)

... I assume we're only talking Gronk and Graham, both of whom realistically will *also* have HOF resumes if they can manage to stay healthy for that next 5-10 (which isn't necessarily a given either, though they have such strong head starts that even if they *aren't* healthy consistently, they could feasibly still crack 10k yards and will easily pass Witten's relatively blah TD totals).

I don't think anyone would argue that Witten is as good as some of the other guys who are in/will be in the HOF... but when you combine numbers and his general affability, it's going to be hard to keep him out.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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will_5198
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Thu Sep-17-15 01:30 PM

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7. "that's true, I just looked at Jimmy Graham's numbers and"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

he has a long ways to go. Witten nearly has a 6,000 yard lead despite being only four years older than Graham (age is a big issue for the latter, since he came into the NFL at 24 and has never played a full season).

and as Gronk should know, staying on the field is a big part of being in the HOF. Witten has not missed a game in 11 years.

--------

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Sep-17-15 05:40 PM

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8. "Has the numbers but fails the eye test"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's at a position where there are not a lot of HOF'ers and when you think about the Mackeys and Newsomes and Ditkas, you think of a different player than the modern tight end. That isn't to say that Witten was soft or a shitty blocker or whatever, just that he compares more closely with guys from the 90s forward (Sharpe, Davis, Coates, Gates, Gonzalez, et al). Right now obviously stats and consistency wise he looks like a lock but in time that position might be evaluated differently. Obviously the team has won nothing of import while he was there either.

But I think he will probably make it because he played in a prominent market, his numbers are big and he isn't done yet, shit he just had two touchdowns on Sunday.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
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Thu Sep-17-15 05:45 PM

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9. "Should the changing nature of the game affect HOF considerations?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean his stats are largely a result of the fact that the Cowboys (and teams in general) pass a lot.

So any TE who hangs around the league long enough will have stats that surpass the current HOF'ers.

_______________________________________
You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again.
Devin tha Dude

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Fri Sep-18-15 12:55 AM

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14. "i think that is overstating it but yes obviously the standards are risin..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

in terms of statistics at least. he's been good and remarkably consistent. of course i hate the cowboys and i am also a big fan of putting guys in the hall of very good. but realistically speaking, he will make it. it should take some time though, definitely not first ballot.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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jimaveli
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Sat Sep-19-15 10:37 AM

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21. "That the thing tho..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>I mean his stats are largely a result of the fact that the
>Cowboys (and teams in general) pass a lot.
>
>So any TE who hangs around the league long enough will have
>stats that surpass the current HOF'ers.

TEs BE getting hurt and falling off the face of the earth after 5 or 6 years. Aka The Kellen Winslow Jr. Witten has survived and surpassed that, which is another feather in his cap. And it looks like he has a few years to go even though he's slowing down. Dez's foot is gonna get more stats turned towards Witten too.

And folks will care about blocking at some point..maybe when there's a graph/some metric to say 'this dude be blockin too y'all' in an obvious way that folks can digest.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
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Thu Sep-17-15 07:07 PM

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10. "1st ballot."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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J_Stew
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Thu Sep-17-15 07:11 PM

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11. "Fuck yes, 1st ballot, and I hate the Cowboys."
In response to Reply # 0


          

One of the best check-down, save the QB's ass players in the history of the game

  

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Dr Claw
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18. "Say it again."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>One of the best check-down, save the QB's ass players in the
>history of the game

  

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Jon
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12. "Yes but I'd stop short of first ballot"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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LAbeathustla
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Thu Sep-17-15 11:20 PM

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13. "he'll get in ..not 1st ballot tho"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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RexLongfellow
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Fri Sep-18-15 01:43 AM

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15. "He's A 1st Ballot HOF...Just Not the Best TE Ever"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-18-15 01:43 AM by RexLongfellow

  

          

And there's nothing wrong with that

Whereas some of his contemporaries were fighting for that crown (Gonzalez, Sharpe...maybe Gronk if healthy)

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Fri Sep-18-15 09:12 PM

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19. "Let's not toss this first-ballot thing around too casually"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

That's very difficult to earn and hell no he will not do it barring some totally unforeseen events in the next few years.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Frank Longo
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Sat Sep-19-15 10:41 PM

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24. "He'd need to play 3-4 more years and get closer to Tony G's numbers."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

If he can get 1000 yards per season for another 3-4 years and get to, say, 13,000+ yards, it'd be tough to deny him first ballot.

As of right now, he has to wait. They made Sharpe wait, what, 3 or 4 years? They'll make Witten wait at least past first ballot, easily. Unless he can really stack those numbers for a couple more seasons.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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25. "How many first-ballot TEs have there been? Ever? Exactly zero."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Just stop, dude. There is no argument for Witten as a first ballot. I am not going to harp on it but it would be historically unprecedented. I would be slightly surprised to see Gonzalez go in as a first ballot and I would bet my LIFE against a case of Tasty Kakes as far as Witten being first ballot.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Frank Longo
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29. "... I was agreeing with you. Why are you telling me to stop?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I'm saying he'd need to put up numbers that one can justify as historic for the position. Tony G is the only guy who I expect to be a first-ballot TE. I said Witten will have to come damn close to Tony's numbers to get to first ballot.

We agree, lol.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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30. "Even if he has career seasons, he will not be first ballot"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

There is no realistic scenario in which he could become first ballot. And of course you know it's all love, dude.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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LegacyNS
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Fri Sep-18-15 09:41 AM

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17. "fa sho"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

  

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mistermaxxx08
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Sat Sep-19-15 12:22 AM

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20. "numbers and Longevity"
In response to Reply # 0


          

he is viewed as the ultimate team guy which is a diss by the media to T.O. and also later to Dez. however as Much as I like ROmo, JW has covered his behind more than anything else and sold that "New" Cowboys vibe.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Mignight Maruder
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22. "With 61st pick the Eagles take LJ Smith...With the 69th, the Cowboys"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

take Jason Witten. UGH. Lance Briggs was taken at 68th too. 2 players who could have filled a big need and put us over the top. Ugh.

Props to Witten. Would have loved him on the Eagles. Tough, punishing and reliable threat who terrorized us through the years. He's definitely HOF worthy imo. If we're making the distinction between 1st ballot (sure fire lock, 1-2 best at position for long time, etc.) and HOF (outstanding career, top 5 at position for most of career, etc.) then yeah, he's not 1st ballot. Outstanding career though. No doubt about that.

  

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poetx
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33. "didn't realize that. i woulda disliked LJ much more had i known. nm"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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40thStreetBlack
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23. "Heath better."
In response to Reply # 0


          

--------

  

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southphillyman
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26. "i'll never forget this play, smh"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7k-YaMfwZM

~~~~~~

  

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cgonz00cc
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27. "watching him run away from M's fastest guys was a HOF bummer lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Was a portent of the asswhipping to follow

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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will_5198
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28. "haha, SEC speed"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

classic game. that Tennessee team was loaded: Witten, Donte Stallworth, Kelley Washington, John Henderson *and* Albert Haynesworth inside...too bad they choked against LSU in the SEC Championship.

they would've lost to Miami of course, but they still should've been there.

--------

  

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will_5198
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31. "announced his retirement today*"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-27-18 06:56 PM by will_5198

  

          

props to a guy who went from an average blocking, athletic seam tight end to a three-down, do-it-all weapon who somehow managed to get open using old man geometry way past the expiration date of his physical advantages.

* rumored. not announced yet.

--------

  

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cgonz00cc
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32. "the answer to OP is resounding yes btw"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

crazy hes 4th in career catches. new NFL and all, but still.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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35. "happy trails to a worthy foe"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Fri Apr-27-18 11:04 PM

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34. "based on how he plays against the Giants..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he’s the greatest football player in the history of western civilization.

  

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