Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 83174 posts
Thu Sep-17-15 01:16 PM
4. "Witten should finish second in total TE yards by a healthy margin." In response to Reply # 0 Thu Sep-17-15 01:18 PM by Frank Longo
He's got a 500 yard lead on Gates, a couple more games before Gates returns from suspension, and he's younger than Gates.
He'll also easily crack the top ten players ever in terms of most receptions of all time, and it's weirdly not impossible that he could crack the top five.
He's way behind on TDs (not even ahead of Vernon Davis!), where guys like Gronk and Graham will pass him the second he retires-- and feasibly could even before that. That's an easy knock against him...
... but then again, he's also crushed the total numbers in general of most of the older TEs who are already in the HOF.
16. "Age isn't that big a factor " In response to Reply # 4
When comparing him to Gates. He's played more games and even with that he's not that far ahead in yards. Gates blows him out of the water when it comes to TD receptions.
**************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic
- he's white - 10 Pro Bowls - he's played for a single major media market team his entire career - he has the numbers for now (although in 5-10 years, the current wave of tight ends will lap him) - superb route runner - fairly clutch player against division rivals - never had an issue with the media - he can actually block
negative side: - lean postseason resume - Pro Bowls are shitty gauges of player accomplishment - his career numbers are very good, but he can also be seen as a compiler (55 ypg average) - never scored double-digit TDs in any season - doesn't pass the eye test as an "explosive, special talent", and media members couldn't tell you the difference between a good route runner and bad one anyway - nobody cares about tight ends who can block
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 83174 posts
Thu Sep-17-15 01:21 PM
6. "To be fair..." In response to Reply # 5 Thu Sep-17-15 01:22 PM by Frank Longo
>- he has the numbers for now (although in 5-10 years, the >current wave of tight ends will lap him)
... I assume we're only talking Gronk and Graham, both of whom realistically will *also* have HOF resumes if they can manage to stay healthy for that next 5-10 (which isn't necessarily a given either, though they have such strong head starts that even if they *aren't* healthy consistently, they could feasibly still crack 10k yards and will easily pass Witten's relatively blah TD totals).
I don't think anyone would argue that Witten is as good as some of the other guys who are in/will be in the HOF... but when you combine numbers and his general affability, it's going to be hard to keep him out.
7. "that's true, I just looked at Jimmy Graham's numbers and" In response to Reply # 6
he has a long ways to go. Witten nearly has a 6,000 yard lead despite being only four years older than Graham (age is a big issue for the latter, since he came into the NFL at 24 and has never played a full season).
and as Gronk should know, staying on the field is a big part of being in the HOF. Witten has not missed a game in 11 years.
8. "Has the numbers but fails the eye test" In response to Reply # 0
He's at a position where there are not a lot of HOF'ers and when you think about the Mackeys and Newsomes and Ditkas, you think of a different player than the modern tight end. That isn't to say that Witten was soft or a shitty blocker or whatever, just that he compares more closely with guys from the 90s forward (Sharpe, Davis, Coates, Gates, Gonzalez, et al). Right now obviously stats and consistency wise he looks like a lock but in time that position might be evaluated differently. Obviously the team has won nothing of import while he was there either.
But I think he will probably make it because he played in a prominent market, his numbers are big and he isn't done yet, shit he just had two touchdowns on Sunday.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
9. "Should the changing nature of the game affect HOF considerations?" In response to Reply # 0
I mean his stats are largely a result of the fact that the Cowboys (and teams in general) pass a lot.
So any TE who hangs around the league long enough will have stats that surpass the current HOF'ers.
_______________________________________ You ain't the only one whose got problems. You ain't the only one who knows pain. Get up off your ass and just solve them. You still got a chance to try to change, try the shit again. Devin tha Dude
14. "i think that is overstating it but yes obviously the standards are risin..." In response to Reply # 9
in terms of statistics at least. he's been good and remarkably consistent. of course i hate the cowboys and i am also a big fan of putting guys in the hall of very good. but realistically speaking, he will make it. it should take some time though, definitely not first ballot.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
21. "That the thing tho..." In response to Reply # 9
>I mean his stats are largely a result of the fact that the >Cowboys (and teams in general) pass a lot. > >So any TE who hangs around the league long enough will have >stats that surpass the current HOF'ers.
TEs BE getting hurt and falling off the face of the earth after 5 or 6 years. Aka The Kellen Winslow Jr. Witten has survived and surpassed that, which is another feather in his cap. And it looks like he has a few years to go even though he's slowing down. Dez's foot is gonna get more stats turned towards Witten too.
And folks will care about blocking at some point..maybe when there's a graph/some metric to say 'this dude be blockin too y'all' in an obvious way that folks can digest.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 83174 posts
Sat Sep-19-15 10:41 PM
24. "He'd need to play 3-4 more years and get closer to Tony G's numbers." In response to Reply # 19
If he can get 1000 yards per season for another 3-4 years and get to, say, 13,000+ yards, it'd be tough to deny him first ballot.
As of right now, he has to wait. They made Sharpe wait, what, 3 or 4 years? They'll make Witten wait at least past first ballot, easily. Unless he can really stack those numbers for a couple more seasons.
25. "How many first-ballot TEs have there been? Ever? Exactly zero." In response to Reply # 24
Just stop, dude. There is no argument for Witten as a first ballot. I am not going to harp on it but it would be historically unprecedented. I would be slightly surprised to see Gonzalez go in as a first ballot and I would bet my LIFE against a case of Tasty Kakes as far as Witten being first ballot.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 83174 posts
Sun Sep-20-15 12:41 PM
29. "... I was agreeing with you. Why are you telling me to stop?" In response to Reply # 25
I'm saying he'd need to put up numbers that one can justify as historic for the position. Tony G is the only guy who I expect to be a first-ballot TE. I said Witten will have to come damn close to Tony's numbers to get to first ballot.
mistermaxxx08 Member since Dec 31st 2010 16076 posts
Sat Sep-19-15 12:22 AM
20. "numbers and Longevity" In response to Reply # 0
he is viewed as the ultimate team guy which is a diss by the media to T.O. and also later to Dez. however as Much as I like ROmo, JW has covered his behind more than anything else and sold that "New" Cowboys vibe.
mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB
22. "With 61st pick the Eagles take LJ Smith...With the 69th, the Cowboys" In response to Reply # 0
take Jason Witten. UGH. Lance Briggs was taken at 68th too. 2 players who could have filled a big need and put us over the top. Ugh.
Props to Witten. Would have loved him on the Eagles. Tough, punishing and reliable threat who terrorized us through the years. He's definitely HOF worthy imo. If we're making the distinction between 1st ballot (sure fire lock, 1-2 best at position for long time, etc.) and HOF (outstanding career, top 5 at position for most of career, etc.) then yeah, he's not 1st ballot. Outstanding career though. No doubt about that.
========================================= I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and not having much to show for it. (c) mad
classic game. that Tennessee team was loaded: Witten, Donte Stallworth, Kelley Washington, John Henderson *and* Albert Haynesworth inside...too bad they choked against LSU in the SEC Championship.
they would've lost to Miami of course, but they still should've been there.
31. "announced his retirement today*" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Apr-27-18 06:56 PM by will_5198
props to a guy who went from an average blocking, athletic seam tight end to a three-down, do-it-all weapon who somehow managed to get open using old man geometry way past the expiration date of his physical advantages.
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