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Subject: "Reds fire Dusty Baker" Previous topic | Next topic
The Real
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Fri Oct-04-13 07:52 AM

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"Reds fire Dusty Baker"


  

          

Guess that's what 90 wins gets you.

From USA Today:
"Dusty Baker is out as manager after six seasons with the Reds, a team source said Friday morning.

Baker, 64, had a year remaining on his contract. He led the Reds to a 90-win season. They lost in the Wild Card game on Tuesday."
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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Good job Joey Votto
Oct 04th 2013
1
yassssssss
Oct 04th 2013
10
never should have thrown cueto
Oct 04th 2013
2
I wasn't a Dusty hater...
Oct 04th 2013
3
riggleman?!
Oct 04th 2013
8
It's not clear (yet) that he was fired
Oct 04th 2013
4
Natinals
Oct 04th 2013
5
this Cal rumor apparently has legs
Oct 04th 2013
15
yeah, definitely not a bad manager
Oct 04th 2013
6
RE: yeah, definitely not a bad manager
Oct 04th 2013
9
      agreed
Oct 04th 2013
13
           Keith Law had a nice one about this
Oct 04th 2013
19
                thats a good quote
Oct 04th 2013
22
                     It's a great job to have
Oct 04th 2013
23
                          yeah Mesoraco needs more starts
Oct 04th 2013
24
Nats need to be beating his door right now
Oct 04th 2013
7
I would love for the Padres to get Baker and dump Bud Black
Oct 04th 2013
27
Oh, and fuck Cueto
Oct 04th 2013
11
SMH!!! there's always work for dusty out there
Oct 04th 2013
12
LOL. Cubs haven't been relevant since he left.
Oct 04th 2013
14
I'm Saying...This Dude Restored 3 Franchises
Oct 04th 2013
16
Boooooooo
Oct 04th 2013
18
The Cubs lost 96 games in Baker's last season
Oct 04th 2013
17
and Lou Piniella got them back to the playoffs
Oct 04th 2013
20
      I *totally* forgot about that 2008 team
Oct 04th 2013
21
      But didn't they spend money after Baker left?
Oct 04th 2013
25
           They spent more than 90mm in 2006
Oct 04th 2013
26
mark prior hasn't been able to lift a paperclip since dusty left either
Oct 04th 2013
39
Nah, Pinella had success there after that
Oct 05th 2013
42
Heyman: Baker went to bat for hitting coach
Oct 04th 2013
28
Castellini disputes that report (swipe)
Oct 04th 2013
29
I hope he has "hell of a guy, a real renaissance man" on his card
Oct 04th 2013
32
      100% co-sign
Oct 04th 2013
35
damn, sounds like that got ugly
Oct 04th 2013
30
I respect the hell out of that if it's true
Oct 04th 2013
37
sounds like he was ready to go & this is sad if true:
Oct 05th 2013
44
Pitching Quay Toe, in a 1 game elimination against Liriano is a WTF
Oct 04th 2013
31
He didn't have much of a choice
Oct 04th 2013
34
      Hindsight from an outsider's perspective, I take it you're a fan
Oct 04th 2013
36
           it was either Cueto or Leake
Oct 04th 2013
40
*calls for a hit-and-run but the batter doesn't swing*
Oct 04th 2013
33
I always hoped when he left the Reds that the timing would
Oct 04th 2013
38
you know Dusty gonna land another in flight gig
Oct 05th 2013
41
Philly
Oct 05th 2013
43
Is that a good job at this point?
Oct 05th 2013
45
just shoot me
Oct 05th 2013
46
Bryan Price hired
Oct 22nd 2013
47
Interesting hire
Oct 22nd 2013
48
put some respect on his name
Oct 13th 2021
49
nice to see him body that drunk ass racist
Oct 13th 2021
50
      definitely, they've hated each other for years
Oct 13th 2021
51

Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Fri Oct-04-13 07:53 AM

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1. "Good job Joey Votto"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Dstl1
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:48 AM

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10. "yassssssss"
In response to Reply # 1


          

.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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osu_no_1
Member since Feb 26th 2003
9388 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 07:54 AM

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2. "never should have thrown cueto"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
3655 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 08:03 AM

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3. "I wasn't a Dusty hater..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I think it was time for him to go. Reds completely collapsed at the end. Yeah they got 90 wins and a wild card, but expectations were a lot higher for this team.

But on the other hand, if the Reds make Jim Riggleman the manager then they have no idea what they are doing. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/04/la-russa-is-not-a-reds-managerial-candidate-jim-riggleman-is-for-some-reason/ (I think/hope Bob Castellini is smarter than that)

  

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Binlahab
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:40 AM

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8. "riggleman?!"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

LOL


does it even matter?

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:14 AM

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4. "It's not clear (yet) that he was fired"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I mean, he had a year left on his contract so he probably didn't walk away from money and 90+ win team on his own. But he's also not that young, so maybe he did.

I think he's done a decent job with this team, navigated the Chapman ambiguity well, and has shaken a lot of the pitcher-killer stuff that (fairly, in my mind) dogged him with the Cubs. His lineup construction caused a lot of hilarious interaction with the press, and his utter disinterest in putting disciplined hitters at the top of the order remains really weird. But he's hardly ever done a bad job anywhere.

If the Twins were in a totally different spot and ended up passing on Gardenhire, I could have lived with Baker. Actually, a couple teams decided to roll with their "meh" managers that would have been decent openings for him. Kansas City thinks this is their window, that's a good look for Baker. The Mets are going to be good sooner than people think.

Who're the Nats looking at after Davey Johnson?

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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The Real
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:19 AM

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5. "Natinals"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Living in the DC area I'm hearing rumblings of them going after Joe Girardi but that doesn't make sense since the ownership really doesn't want to spend that kind of money.

Then there is a rumor of Cal Ripken but I don't buy that because if Ripken makes this move - he can pretty much close the door on anything within the O's organization.

To me, I think Matt Williams is the front runner.

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:17 AM

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15. "this Cal rumor apparently has legs"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

He's been seen with Rizzo on a few occasions through the season, and Werth called him his "number one choice." Werth saying that leads me to belive Ripken is a legitimate candidate for skipper.

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:31 AM

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6. "yeah, definitely not a bad manager"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I agree that pitcher killer stuff was overblown and he did a good job with the young talented pitchers in Cincy.

My biggest gripe with him was always lineup construction. Everyone got on Votto about his RBI totals this year but he had Zach Cozart batting in front of him most of the year. He shouldve gone with Choo-Votto-Phillips-Bruce at the top of the lineup.

One other disagreement I had is I wanted Chapman as a starter. Yeah, it kind of worked itself out when Broxton went down, but still in the most important week of the season Chapman didn't pitch once. It will be interesting to see if the new manager will want Chapman as a starter and go with Hoover or LeCure (or Broxton if healthy) as the closer.

While as a Reds fan I am ready for a change, I think Dusty did a better job in Cincy than a lot will give him credit for. Reds could certainly do a lot worse than Dusty.

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:48 AM

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9. "RE: yeah, definitely not a bad manager"
In response to Reply # 6


          

>I agree that pitcher killer stuff was overblown and he did a
>good job with the young talented pitchers in Cincy.

I think the reputation was entirely earned, but that he should similarly get credit for improving so much. Mark Prior's 2003 pitch counts down the stretch are... awful. And include some oddities like 131 pitches thrown in a 7-0 win. I know they were making a playoff push, but that one in particular is bad news.

Still, he's learned new tricks. It sucks to hang Mark Prior on him when he led a staff of, as you point out, young pitchers that stayed really healthy all year.

>Reds could certainly do a lot worse than Dusty.

Basically. His record as a manager isn't an accident. If you've got a solid team with steady veterans and you need to get them over the playoff hump, Baker should be at or near the top of the list.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:12 AM

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13. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Yeah, you can put Prior on him.

Right now I'm ok with the firing, but will withhold complete judgment until I see who the Reds hire. Right now rumors are Reds will stay in house, if thats the case I'd rather have Dusty back. But I do have more faith in Castellini than I did Lidner who would just go with cheapest option available.

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:33 AM

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19. "Keith Law had a nice one about this"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>Right now rumors are Reds will stay in house, if thats the case I'd >rather have Dusty back.

It wasn't about Baker specifically, just about internal searches. Something like "if your best answer is the guy who was standing closest when the job was vacated, you probably didn't look hard enough."

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:39 AM

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22. "thats a good quote"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

and I completely agree. Reds have enough talent that they should be able to attract a good manager as long as they don't go cheap.

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:50 AM

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23. "It's a great job to have"
In response to Reply # 22


          

>and I completely agree. Reds have enough talent that they
>should be able to attract a good manager as long as they don't
>go cheap.

Good, stable veterans on a team with a deep base of talent on both sides of the ball.

I forgot to ask above about Mesoraco. We've had catcher after catcher prove that learning on the fly to hit big league pitching, managing an MLB rotation, and staying healthy is really, really difficult to do as a young player. This fact makes me profoundly happy as a Joe Mauer fan who's seen a bunch of guys get tagged with the next Mauer. So, if Mesoraco just doesn't have what it takes to reach the All-Star peak that folks saw for him a few years ago then that's an entirely reasonable outcome.

But it seems crazy to me that he was the #16 prospect in baseball prior to 2012 and had already seen more than 500 plate appearances at Louisville at that point, and Dusty Baker hasn't managed to find more than 400 plate appearances in a season for him since. Managing a contending team while breaking in young prospects is tough, understood. But it was part of his job and it seems unclear to me, as somebody who doesn't watch them regularly, that he dealt with Mesoraco correctly.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:59 AM

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24. "yeah Mesoraco needs more starts"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Hannigan is great defensively, but is pretty much an automatic out at this point in his career. Mesoraco's defense improved this year too, so the defensive dropoff wouldn't have been that huge. I definitely wanted to see more of Mesoraco this year, but I did like what I saw of him, he was the most improved player on the team. Future is still very bright for him, I think he can become #4 or #5 hitter in the lineup. I'm hoping the Reds release Hannigan and/or make Devin the #1 catcher in 2014.

  

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Binlahab
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7. "Nats need to be beating his door right now"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

i dont understand why he got fired period, dude has done nothing but produce winning, playoff bound teams


does it even matter?

  

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calij81
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Fri Oct-04-13 11:41 AM

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27. "I would love for the Padres to get Baker and dump Bud Black"
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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Dstl1
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11. "Oh, and fuck Cueto"
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

when I threw the rifle in the river,
it looked like Bol Bol was diving in the river - Action Bronson

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:12 AM

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12. "SMH!!! there's always work for dusty out there"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:15 AM

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14. "LOL. Cubs haven't been relevant since he left. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


The Reds are about to suck.

  

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RexLongfellow
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:24 AM

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16. "I'm Saying...This Dude Restored 3 Franchises"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Only one of them won a World Series (Giants)

Giants stunk before him, he got there, great franchise
Cubs stunk before him, he gets there, great franchise, he leaves, they stink
Reds stunk before him, he gets there, great franchise

It's insane that he keeps getting canned with that track record...if you replace baseball with football, that sounds almost like Bill Parcells

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:32 AM

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18. "Boooooooo"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>Giants stunk before him, he got there, great franchise

I think changing leftfielders between '92 and '93 mattered more a little bit more hiring than Dusty Baker.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:28 AM

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17. "The Cubs lost 96 games in Baker's last season"
In response to Reply # 14


          

The path to irrelevancy (or, more to the point, just being shitty at baseball) was pretty well set regardless of who was managing them after 2006.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:34 AM

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20. "and Lou Piniella got them back to the playoffs"
In response to Reply # 17
Fri Oct-04-13 09:36 AM by THRILLHOUSE

  

          

Cubs won the NL Central twice under Lou, so the Cubs didn't exactly go to shit immediately after they fired Baker.

  

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Walleye
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21. "I *totally* forgot about that 2008 team"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Which is weird, because I lived there and knew a great deal of super obnoxious Cubs fans. Though maybe the answer is encoded in that sentence.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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The Real
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25. "But didn't they spend money after Baker left?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


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Walleye
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26. "They spent more than 90mm in 2006"
In response to Reply # 25


          

They weren't a small-payroll team during Baker's tenure. A lot of the additional payroll was on big raises for players like Zambrano and Ramirez that were continuous through these periods. And a lot of it was on Alfonso Soriano.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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bshelly
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:21 PM

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39. "mark prior hasn't been able to lift a paperclip since dusty left either"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Bombastic
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42. "Nah, Pinella had success there after that"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>
>The Reds are about to suck.

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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Walleye
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Fri Oct-04-13 11:43 AM

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28. "Heyman: Baker went to bat for hitting coach"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Wow. Things got kind of ugly in Cincinnati.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24001371/baker-challenged-reds-gm-if-you-want-to-fire-someone-fire-me

It all came to a head in one conversation, a conversation about a coach, and sources say Dusty Baker wasn't about to let a coach take the blame for what went down with the Reds this year.

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty in a year-end hash-out session about the team's dissatisfying season told Baker he was intending to fire hitting coach Brook Jacoby, according to a person familiar with the situation. And that was all Baker had to hear.

Baker wasn't the one who brought in Jacoby, but he also knew it wasn't Jacoby's fault. So Baker took the bold step that led to Jocketty ousting him as Reds manager.

REDS FIRE BAKER
Bounced after playoff exit
"If you want to fire someone, fire me,'' Baker told Jocketty.

Baker may have been worn out by all the recent negativity regarding the Reds' unsatisfying season, anyway. Rare has someone been criticized so much for guiding an imperfect team to a 90-win season, but Baker became a target. He was a target of some fans, of many sabremetricians. And ultimately, he was a target of Jocketty.

The conversation ended right there on Wednesday with Baker's invitation to dismiss him. The two are not close, and people close to the situation say their relationship was "distant" or even "strained." But Baker couldn't have been sure Jocketty would take him up on his offer.

But he did. The next day, Thursday, Baker was called in. And Jocketty fired him. So there went Baker's Reds career, blown up trying to protect a coach under attack.

There's a wonder whether Baker sensed something was up and was testing Jocketty. But Baker, who didn't dispute the conversation, says no, that wasn't it.

"I wasn't testing anyone,'' Baker said. "I was just doing what I thought was right."

"Sometimes it gets to the point where you're always blaming the teacher (meaning Jacoby). Sometimes it's the pupils,'' Baker said.

The Reds may say it was a "mutual" call to part ways, but there it is. That's how it happened.

They may even tell someone Baker wants to take a year off. And maybe that's a story. But there's no doubt Baker wants to manage, and will consider any and all opportunities. So that year off may turn out to be a few months off, or weeks.

"My son is already picking out teams,'' Baker said.

You remember the son, the cute little boy saved by J.T. Snow in the postseason. he's grown up to be a player. Today, Baker said, he was crying for the first time since Baker had a hospital stay a year ago.

The game's been good to the Bakers. Though, today is not good.

"It hurts. It hurts big-time," Baker said. "It's a double whammy being swept out of the playoffs, and two days later this."

It wasn't all about one conversation, of course. Baker quite likely started to sense that maybe his time was up in Cincinnati. Maybe that's why he said what he said.

"The last couple weeks, I've been getting a rash of hate mail, racial mail,'' he said. "Maybe it is time to go."

"This is really ugly," he said. "There are all sorts of references to Barack Obama. So now I know where they are coming from. I don't know, maybe people are mad at him, so they don't like the idea of blacks in authority."

Baker gave the go-ahead for what went down. But there's no question the support was slipping.

"I pissed somebody off, I guess," he said.

The funny thing is, Baker only wanted a one-year deal a year ago. The team insisted on giving him two.

So if he doesn't get a job immediately he is covered. No matter how it's couched, they are on the hook to pay him.

Someone else should want him. The man wins. He may not have won over the sabermetric crowd, but he wins games.

The Reds, with a top heavy lineup, and a lefty heavy one, still won 90 games. They won without Johnny Cueto, Sean Marshall, Ryan Ludwick and others who were hurt. The front office kept saying that rather than acquiring players, they were waiting for players to return.

Eventually, they did return. But they weren't quite the same. And it wasn't enough.

"I think we overachieved," Baker said.

Baker didn't agree when Jocketty fired pitching coach Dick Pole previously. And like many managers and GMs, there were disagreements over how many coaches would be Baker hires and how many would be front office guys. Baker's guys were Chris Speier, who's been in the crosshairs of management a couple times, and Juan Lopez. Baker sensed that the coaches were less and less his guys.

Things just weren't comfortable between Baker and Jocketty. So Jocketty quite likely was looking for the opening to make the change.

And Baker gave it to him.

The Reds may couch Baker's firing as something that was done by "mutual agreement" but it's clear Jocketty was no supporter.

Reds people surely weren't happy to lose to the rival Pirates and be eliminated in that one-game winner-take-all playoff. But this wasn't all about one game.

Had Baker let Jacoby be fired, he'd more than likely still be Reds manager.

This was far from the first disagreement, though.

There were many disagreements about player acquisitions. And there were disagreements over coaches. But this was the final disagreement.

Baker stood up for what he thought was right. And now he is gone.

Baker has his detractors. Fans were upset because they heard how great the Reds were supposed to be this year, and saw the team go out with barely a whimper.

The sabermetric crowd isn't a fan of Baker's. They kept mentioning how Baker doesn't use on-base percentage to his favor.

There was a drumbeat of negativity. Always the drumbeat.

Jocketty had some ammunition to do what folks on the inside believed he wanted to do. But he probably didn't have the go-ahead -- until Baker gave it to him, that is.

The reality, though, is that the Reds' eventually unsatisfying season isn't Baker's fault. While many baseball people would agree that there are better strategic in-game managers, he won 90 games and made the playoffs again with Jocketty's flawed team.

The Reds are too top heavy. No team relied on four guys like the Reds. Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Shin-So Choo and Brandon Phillips provided a greater percentage of the Reds' offense than any foursome in baseball, and it's not even close. The bottom half of the Reds' lineup was a virtual black hole. That's on Jocketty, not Baker.

The Reds are too left-handed. Three of those players -- all but Phillips -- are left-handed. This made the Reds especially susceptible to lefty pitchers. The Pirates started Francisco Liriano in the one-game playoff game, and the Reds were pretty much dead meat once Liriano's slider was working the way it was.

The Reds don't have enough leaders. Scott Rolen was one. Jonny Gomes was another. Rolen retired, but they needed to replace him. That isn't on Baker.

Jocketty isn't as high profile or as much a magnet for criticism as Baker. But he didn't exactly have a perfect season, either.

Perhaps a crack in the relationship showed in the postgame session when Baker mentioned that Marlon Byrd really helped the Pirates. Perhaps he was just stating fact. Byrd did hurt the Reds a few times since Pittsburgh got him at mid-year.

That was on Jocketty. The Reds could have used a righty hitter like Byrd, but even if they figured there wouldn't be room in the starting lineup once Ryan Ludwick returned (and why think that? Byrd was having a great year), they needed at least to claim Byrd to make sure the Pirates didn't get him.

Byrd only made $700,000 this year, and the Mets wouldn't have given him away, anyway, so a claim on Byrd would have served only as a block. But the Reds, who were in position to block Pittsburgh at the time by virtue of a slightly worse record, passed.

"The Reds were asleep at the switch," is the way one competing GM put the decision not to claim Byrd.

Jocketty has always had the luxury of a good, experienced manager. He had one in LaRussa in St. Louis, and he had Baker. LaRussa and Baker had their own rivalry for the Bay Area, then Cards-Cubs matchup, so maybe Baker and Jocketty had to overcome that.

Jocketty is very close to LaRussa, but he hasn't hinted to anyone he wants to come back to manage. If Jocketty could talk him into it, that would be a coup.

Anyway, that mistake was barely mentioned throughout the season, while the sabremetric crowd kept harping on Baker's lineups. It's easy to see how all the negativity eventually got to Reds owner Bob Castellini, who looked so upset in the box at the finale some started to wonder who might pay.

It was going to be Jacoby.

Until Baker stood up for him.

Castellini was really the one who hired Baker, as he was blown away in the interview. Wayne Krivsky, who himself was unceremoniously dumped after two years in favor of Castellini's old Cardinals associate Jocketty, was the GM at the time. But after the interview with Baker, Castellini made up his mind.

So Dusty became a high-paid manager in a small market. And he became a lightning rod for a team with out-sized expectations.

The team was just starting to win when Krivsky was fired after almost no time on the job, but the team took off with Baker at the helm. Baker has a terrific winning record, and it would be folly to assume he had nothing to do with its renewed success.

Baker wins a lot. He has won 1,653 games and lost 1,487. He has won three Manager of the Year awards. He hasn't quite won the big one, though, and that's haunted him. And it's given fodder to his detractors.

The Reds lost a big one to the Pirates in the wild-card playoff. The PNC Park crowd was big in the game. But Liriano -- the lefty -- was too tough for the Reds' lefty-heavy lineup.

Afterward, Jocketty was asked by the Cincinnati Enquirer whether there were any "questions" about Bakers's standing. He said, "I don't think so. He's signed for another year."

That was the tipoff. What they meant was that he wasn't sure he'd be able to get rid of him since Castellini still had $3.5-million he'd have to eat and still was thought to support Baker.

And he probably wouldn't have had Baker let Jacoby go without a fight.

But Jocketty got what he wanted, there's little doubt about that.

No word yet on who's taking over, but assuming LaRussa sticks to his word that he's retired, two internal candidates -- pitching coach Bryan Price and Triple-A manager Jim Riggleman -- are names sure to surface.

Someone publicly speculated on Joe Morgan's name. And we hope that's a joke.

To get rid of Baker because he isn't as familiar with stats as one might like and replace him with Morgan, who showed he doesn't know about new stats in his previous job, doesn't sound like something Jocketty would want to do. Plus, Morgan has no experience managing. He'd just be Baker lite. (Though that isn't fair to Baker because Baker is a warm person who deals exceptionally well with others.)

Barry Larkin, a Reds icon and Hall of Fame player, is a name that makes some sense. He has what it takes to eventually become a good manager, and he'd be an immediate hit with fans.

Price and Riggleman are good names, as well. Price is about the most respected pitching coach in the game, and Riggleman is a fine manager who was a big part of the Nationals turnaround.

Either would make a fine choice. So might Larkin.

But Dusty didn't have to go.

And he likely wouldn't be gone if he didn't stand up for what he thought was right.

Topics: Aroldis Chapman, Brandon Phillips, Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, Jonny Gomes, Marlon Byrd, Ryan Ludwick, Scott Rolen, Sean Marshall, Cincinnati Reds, MLB

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 11:58 AM

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29. "Castellini disputes that report (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20131004/SPT04/310040120/Castellini-denies-Baker-Jacoby-report

Owner Bob Castellini echoed what general manager Walt Jocketty said: Dusty Baker was fired because of the Reds' late collapse.

"It really was a tough decision," Castellini said. "I had a good relationship with Dusty. He's a hell of a guy, a real renaissance man. But it wasn't working with this particular team, at this particular minute. You've got to make a change."

"Did you see the team playing with great passion, vigor and and confidence? And as a team? I don't think that anyone can say that positively. I think it was apparent that they were not playing up to their potential."

Castellini denied a report that Baker was fired after Jocketty told him hitting coach Brook Jacoby was going to be fired. Baker reportedly said: "If you're going to fire someone, fire me."

"That's somebody's imagination," Castellini said. "If he had that discussion with somebody, it wasn't me. That's No. 1. No. 2, that would never enter into a decision whether you would fire Dusty or not.

"That has never come up. We have never discussed Brook as far as next year or the year after. Those discussions come."

As for the new manager?

"We were looking for the best guy for this particular team," Castellini said. "Do we have anyone exactly in mind? No. We're going to search ad listen to a lot of people. We're on it right away."

  

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Walleye
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32. "I hope he has "hell of a guy, a real renaissance man" on his card"
In response to Reply # 29


          

Here's a proposition to consider:

A baseball manager can never have enough impact on a team to justify the sort of anger that Dusty Baker seems to generate.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 01:15 PM

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35. "100% co-sign"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>Here's a proposition to consider:
>
>A baseball manager can never have enough impact on a team to
>justify the sort of anger that Dusty Baker seems to generate.

Yeah his lineups and in game decisions were questionable at times, but he certainly doesn't deserve the hate he gets. Now the managers the Reds put out there in the years between McKeon and Baker were atrocious and deserve that kind of anger.

  

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ThaTruth
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30. "damn, sounds like that got ugly"
In response to Reply # 28


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Fri Oct-04-13 04:32 PM

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37. "I respect the hell out of that if it's true"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Especially after Davey Johnson was quoted all this season supporting hitting coach Rick Eckstein. Who was unfairly martyred in my opinion. In late June, Davey said, "But if you want to fire the hitting coach, you might as well fire me right with him. Because hes got the same philosophy I do, as far as hitting goes."

A few weeks later, they fired the hitting coach and Davey stayed.

If Dusty went out on his sword standing up for his guy, that's really cool.

It would seem that only one former player from the 1973-75 Atlanta Braves is about that life.

  

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Binlahab
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Sat Oct-05-13 09:11 AM

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44. "sounds like he was ready to go & this is sad if true:"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


>"The last couple weeks, I've been getting a rash of hate mail,
>racial mail,'' he said. "Maybe it is time to go."
>
>"This is really ugly," he said. "There are all sorts of
>references to Barack Obama. So now I know where they are
>coming from. I don't know, maybe people are mad at him, so
>they don't like the idea of blacks in authority."

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
15821 posts
Fri Oct-04-13 12:05 PM

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31. "Pitching Quay Toe, in a 1 game elimination against Liriano is a WTF"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

moment

CIN had a solid SP rotation

and Cueto basically wasn't a part of it

2 decent Sep starts, after not pitching since June

against 2 teams that were already eliminated, NYM and HOU

definitely a brain fart on Dusty's part

I think I heard a stat that Votto got the most IBBs since Bonds' retarded year where he walked >>> 200 times

so, it's not his fault that teams stopped pitching to his guy and Brandon Phillips had a bit of a dip this year

but pitching Cueto, c'mon

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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THRILLHOUSE
Member since Oct 26th 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 01:12 PM

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34. "He didn't have much of a choice"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

since Latos wasn't available due to bone spurs in his pitching elbow. And they weren't aware Latos wouldn't be available for the Wild Card game until Saturday night. So it was either Cueto or Leake. While Leake had a very good year, I'm not sure if I would've trusted him to start a 1 game playoff, and if Leake gets rocked then everyone is questioning why not Cueto. Obviously it backfired, but I get why he with with Cueto.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Oct-04-13 03:42 PM

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36. "Hindsight from an outsider's perspective, I take it you're a fan"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Pure reaction from me seeing Cueto on the mound in that situation

I'm sure it can be rationalized

but he and Volquez get HAHAs from me

CIN stumbled into the playoffs

and put themselves in that situation, which is probably the real story

losing 5 straight to end the season

including 3 straight to the team you're going to face in the WC game

and losing homefield for that game in the process

is probably more telling than the Cueto fail

but like I said, from the outside it was just a WTF moment

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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THRILLHOUSE
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Fri Oct-04-13 09:59 PM

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40. "it was either Cueto or Leake"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

most would've gone with Cueto in that situation, since he looked healthy again and Leake got rocked his last start. So I wasn't mad about Cueto getting the start. However Dusty should've had a quicker hook with him when it was obvious Cueto didn't have it that night. That is a big reason why Dusty got fired, he managed the game like it was a regular season game and not an elimination game.

And yeah Volquez starting game 1 2010 NLDS was a mistake but not a huge one since the Reds didn't get even get a hit that game so it didn't really matter.

  

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Flash80
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
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Fri Oct-04-13 12:53 PM

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33. "*calls for a hit-and-run but the batter doesn't swing*"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-04-13 12:54 PM by Flash80

          

i'm surprised mgmt extended his contract after they blew it in the divisional last year against the giants, aside from maybe continuity.

i like dusty, but like one of y'all said (think it was old pro), he invariably added a wrinkle here and there/overly-managed the game at times, when he shoulda sat back and done nothing.

sometimes it worked -- flipping bonds for kent in the batter order in '02 -- sometimes not.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Oct-04-13 08:07 PM

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38. "I always hoped when he left the Reds that the timing would"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

be right for him to manage the Dodgers. But since the Dodgers went on their run...not sure the timing is right...

I know in the back of Magic's mind he'd want that too...he was a Dusty Baker fan...

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sat Oct-05-13 01:27 AM

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41. "you know Dusty gonna land another in flight gig"
In response to Reply # 0


          

he too good to be out too long. I pull and root for Dusty.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Bombastic
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43. "Philly "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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The Real
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Sat Oct-05-13 10:48 PM

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45. "Is that a good job at this point?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make Money: http://jamesjenkins.acnrep.com
Save Money: http://jamesjenkins.acndirect.com

  

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bshelly
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Sat Oct-05-13 10:49 PM

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46. "just shoot me"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Walleye
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Tue Oct-22-13 08:49 AM

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47. "Bryan Price hired"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I remember just a few years ago that it seemed pitching coaches were way too narrow in their focus to be managers. But Bud Black and John Farrell later and voila, it's the new big thing.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24117437/report-reds-expected-to-name-bryan-price-manager-on-tuesday

Reds expected to name Bryan Price manager on Tuesday
By Mike Axisa | Baseball Writer

The Reds will name pitching coach Bryan Price their new manager on Tuesday, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com has confirmed. Paul Daugherty of the Cincinnati Enquirer first reported the news and says a press conference is scheduled.

Price, 51, has served as the team's pitching coach under Dusty Baker since the 2010 season. He had previously coached with the Mariners and Diamondbacks. Price does not have any managerial experience at the MLB level.

The Reds dismissed Dusty Baker soon after losing the NL wild-card game to the Pirates earlier this month. Price and Triple-A Louisville manager Jim Riggleman were the only rumored candidates for the job.

John Farrell of the Red Sox and Bud Black of the Padres have made the transition from pitching coach to manager in recent years.

Topics: Cincinnati Reds, MLB

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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The Real
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Tue Oct-22-13 10:17 AM

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48. "Interesting hire"
In response to Reply # 47
Tue Oct-22-13 10:17 AM by The Real

  

          

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make Money: http://jamesjenkins.acnrep.com
Save Money: http://jamesjenkins.acndirect.com

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-13-21 12:25 AM

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49. "put some respect on his name"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
4311 posts
Wed Oct-13-21 10:40 AM

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50. "nice to see him body that drunk ass racist"
In response to Reply # 49


          

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Oct-13-21 01:35 PM

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51. "definitely, they've hated each other for years"
In response to Reply # 50


          

________________________________________
"Stay out the dark, cause if I catch you when the sun is down..."
https://youtu.be/eaaTxVRG06c?t=89

  

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