(Usually) are really outstanding and some even great defensive players

Hakeem
Manute
Mutombo
Deng
Ibaka

It seems like that's a constant w/their skillset just like Euro players are usually good jump shooters.

Its been awhile since I can recall a college player having a nose for the ball like Oladipo. He's really the best player on that squad, not Zeller.

grassrootsphilosopher

what about the OTHER deng...that sorry uconn one.

...Mahktar

...Yinka

....Ekezie

....all-time #1 overall bust...Kandi Man

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Really where we hang our hat, the 2 footballs though? Sheeee't

------------------
One Hundred.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

------------------
One Hundred.

One played a lil bit of NBA ball, and another played pro in Europe. All of them say Ajou Deng was on some KG shit, and easily the best basketball player the UK has produced, but was injured before he came over, and was never the same again.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

He was kicking everybody's ass in practice, blah blah blah...

Calhoun saw him as a rich man's Donyell Marshall....but alas...we got the wrong Deng.

------------------
One Hundred.

I saw Angels in America, the student production. Boateng was in my Drama class and had to see it for credit.

There's a nudity scene in which Prior is laying down on his back, totally naked, being examined. This student... wasn't especially well endowed, tragically. But it's a serious play and a heartbreaking scene, so no one really makes a big deal of it.

Except when Boateng saw it.

He was texting through most of it, and looked up halfway through the examination scene, just to see penis on the stage.

He exclaims "OH SHIT" and vainly tries to stifle his giggles.

Jamal Boykin was looking at him shaking his head like "this uncultured motherfucker."

I mostly felt bad for the actor, who was onstage naked while a 7 foot African cackled at his dick in the distance.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

I CANNOT be on these boards when I'm TRYING TO
GET SHIT DONE

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

__________
YARDS

i still blame hip-hop.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

------------------
One Hundred.

jumps like a jackrabbit.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

west africans tend to have em, east africans less so but have other advantages (hence their dominance in distance running).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

this angers me!

fuckers would have been great soccer players

Alonzo Mourning

But on a serious note. We beat the shit out of Nigeria and Angola something serious.

I don't recall any Ike Diogu defensive stopper posts either.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

I do believe this small sample size of two proves the point correct.

>I do believe this small sample size of two proves the point
>correct.

See: Midnight Run & Training Day

I can't deal with dumb shit like this

At least get the categories right

You didn't even do that

>(Usually) are really outstanding and some even great
>defensive players
>
>Hakeem
>Manute
>Mutombo
>Deng
>Ibaka

You listed 5 players, and among them, there are 3 reasons
that they are good defenders:

Deng and Ibaka - Bammas

Hakeem - springy leaper, among the best footwork
and positioning of all time, timing

Mutumbo, Manute: Two of the tallest players with
the longest reaches in league history. Both also
had good timing

And Oladipo is a bamma in the Deng case

He's more like Ron Artest than any African

Mark Eaton was more like Mutumbo and Bol than Olajuwon or
Ibaka was either of them.


>It seems like that's a constant w/their skillset just like
>Euro players are usually good jump shooters.

LOL

For every Drazen Petrovic there is a Sarunas
Marciulionus (slasher).

And when you throw in Spain, then everything gets thrown
off, since Marc Gasol is good specifically because he's
like the only old school banging 7 footer in the league
and Ricky Rubio is John Wall-lite horrid shooter

White Americans are actually the group with the highest
fraction of good jumpshooters.

Europeans (and Argentinians) are actually reknowned for their
slashing and around-the-rim ability: Tony Parker, Ginobli, etc.

>Its been awhile since I can recall a college player having a
>nose for the ball like Oladipo. He's really the best player on
>that squad, not Zeller.

Then just make a post about him


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I'm in tears.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>I can't deal with dumb shit like this

Explains why you invariably OVERanalyze your point but its cool

>
>At least get the categories right

Categories? Seriously?

>You didn't even do that

Because its irrelevant to this topic lol

>>(Usually) are really outstanding and some even great
>>defensive players


>>Hakeem
>>Manute
>>Mutombo
>>Deng
>>Ibaka
>
>You listed 5 players, and among them, there are 3 reasons
>that they are good defenders:

The *reason* why they're good defensive players is because they put forth the effort on that end of the floor, plain and simple...nothing else because defense is all abt effort and desire and less abt any physical attributes a given player or players might possess. Makes me think african born players are coached early on w/an emphasis on defense because its the one aspect of the game that you don't need tons of athleticism to excel at, only effort and a willingness to exert yourself. They're coached (I think) to their strengths (just like they are in soccer); I think the same can be said of the euro players w/fundamentals and outside shooting.

>Deng and Ibaka - Bammas
>
>Hakeem - springy leaper, among the best footwork
>and positioning of all time, timing
>
>Mutumbo, Manute: Two of the tallest players with
>the longest reaches in league history. Both also
>had good timing
>
>And Oladipo is a bamma in the Deng case
>
>He's more like Ron Artest than any African

He's only like Artest in that both like playing defense. He's eons more athletic and nowhere near as big a body.

>Mark Eaton was more like Mutumbo and Bol than Olajuwon or
>Ibaka was either of them.
>
>
>>It seems like that's a constant w/their skillset just like
>>Euro players are usually good jump shooters.
>
>LOL
>
>For every Drazen Petrovic there is a Sarunas
>Marciulionus (slasher).

Well allow me to recalibrate my statement: for all the African players that CAN PLAY, being a good defensive player is commonplace in their overall skillset.

>And when you throw in Spain, then everything gets thrown
>off, since Marc Gasol is good specifically because he's
>like the only old school banging 7 footer in the league
>and Ricky Rubio is John Wall-lite horrid shooter
>
>White Americans are actually the group with the highest
>fraction of good jumpshooters.
>
>Europeans (and Argentinians) are actually reknowned for their
>
>slashing and around-the-rim ability: Tony Parker, Ginobli,
>etc.

Euro players have never been known for putting the ball on the floor creating their own shot or being slashers, Ginobili (and Parker too) is an exception and doesn't qualify since he's latin America. If you recall, the alleged reason for the nba implementing the zone was to accomodate the euro players who were more outside shooters.

>>Its been awhile since I can recall a college player having a
>>nose for the ball like Oladipo. He's really the best player
>on
>>that squad, not Zeller.
>
>Then just make a post about him

I established both points
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

grassrootsphilosopher

>(Usually) are really outstanding and some even great
>defensive players
>
>Hakeem
>Manute
>Mutombo
>Deng
>Ibaka

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

i'm not even bothering to go into any further depth about how bizarre this idea is.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

To many Africans who get introduced to the sport...

-initially wasn't very good, became a late bloomer
-was told even by his nigerian father to give up the sport since he wasn't very good and tried to stir him to soccer
-worked on other aspects of the game besides offense







>i'm not even bothering to go into any further depth about how
>bizarre this idea is.

Nothing bizarre at all, no different than saying all euro players/white players usually can shoot from the outside or that NYC guards have great handles
>-----------
>It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

grassrootsphilosopher

all of those claims are pretty problematic (euros can shoot, nyc guards got handles, etc.) that aren't proven at all and are selected on the dependent variable. Or did Arvydis Sabonis not exist? RIk Smits was the dunking dutchman not the jumpshooting dutchman. Manu Ginobili (argentines often get lumped into the "euro" group) and Tony Parker are slashers, not shooters, etc.

the best argument you could make is that defense is played with the feet and african families play more soccer = more good footwork = better base for defense. but you claimed something about coaching and Oladipo played American AAU and at DeMatha so it's just wrong.

edit: also Oladipo wasn't very good? tell that to his three straight All-Met selections, his high major offers, and his status as a high rising prospect playing for an elite AAU squad. I knew about him in high school because some vocal hoyas fans were clamoring for JT3 to recruit him.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

Smits was a jumpshooter though. but other than that, yeah.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

because that name was all sorts of awesome.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

because Rik Smits riding a bicycle is never not funny.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

I love The Roots and have been a long time fan of these message boards for the humor everyone brings. My wife and I made love to an old Jill Scott song once too.

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Posters in High Griffinition.

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http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
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---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
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L D E A

Obina Ezikel, Bizmack Biyambo, Diop.........

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
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grassrootsphilosopher

You're like the king of offering half-assed versions of
opinions that everyone that else has already thought of

When the game is new to a culture, the easiest facet
to pick up is usually defense and rebounding.

Timmay was a dominant defender at Wake before he was a
dominant offensive player, etc.

He's not African.

Just stop.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

players who AREN'T good defenders? Who has more players who fit that description than the US.?

Could it be because a lot of american born players have no desire or lack the commitment needed to be a good defensive players because playing defense doesn't get you on Sportscenter top 10

>You're like the king of offering half-assed versions of
>opinions that everyone that else has already thought of

Is that right? So who else said this abt African born players? Surely it wasn't on this board because everyone disagreed w/the post. So who is this "everyone else" you're talking abt?

>
>When the game is new to a culture, the easiest facet
>to pick up is usually defense and rebounding.

Yeah, this is EXACTLY what I said in this very post when you were futilely and unnecessarily describing attributes that made/makes players like Olajuwon, Mutombo, Deng, Ibaka etc. great defensive players. Many African born players are usually good to great defenders not because they possess any particular skill set or because they have better footwork, but because they make an effort on that end of the floor which is really what defense is abt...

>
>Timmay was a dominant defender at Wake before he was a
>dominant offensive player, etc.

He was also a very polished offensive player, particularly his back to the basket game, which is what made his gm stand out and besides, there are exceptions to the rule. Every white dude isn't a good jump shooter, every left handed player doesn't have a pretty jump shot...and every African isn't a good defensive player but in general....
>
>He's not African.
>
>Just stop.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

grassrootsphilosopher

http://tinyurl.com/aezpos4

>players who AREN'T good defenders? Who has more players who
>fit that description than the US.?

There are also, like, a few orders of magnitude more
African-American players than there are "African" players,
which confounds your little group comparison.

But whatever, let's settle this rather quickly:

- there are springy, athletic, hard working defenders.

-They have more in common with each other than they do
with the ethnic groups they are affiliated with.

-Those differences cross racial and ethnic lines.

-Same with people who run for president, and teach
astrophysics.


>Could it be because a lot of american born players have no
>desire or lack the commitment needed to be a good defensive
>players because playing defense doesn't get you on
>Sportscenter top 10

So Americans are, on average, lazy relative to kids from poor
countries. Very original idea.


Except when the American kids aren't lazy, like in the case
of Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, Ron Artest and Michael Cooper.

Then the theory falls apart.

And so again: common thread is that people who are good
athletes and work hard at defense are good defenders.

We could just make that point, you know.


>>Timmay was a dominant defender at Wake before he was a
>>dominant offensive player, etc.
>
>He was also a very polished offensive player, particularly his
>back to the basket game, which is what made his gm stand out
>and besides, there are exceptions to the rule. Every white
>dude isn't a good jump shooter, every left handed player
>doesn't have a pretty jump shot...and every African isn't a
>good defensive player but in general....

LOL. You're plain wrong, here. You don't watch basketball.

You didn't see Tim Duncan as a freshman at Wake.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tim-duncan-1.html

Not even double-digit scoring.

He was entirely garbage points. Had very little back to
the basket game. He was all defense and hustle. I remember
it because I watched the games.


So, you're wrong.








----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

NBA ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM 2012

Lebron James
Serge Ibaka
Tony Allen
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard

2nd Team

Kevin Garnett
Luol Deng
Kobe Bryant
Rajon Rondo
Tyson Chandler

African Americans are winning this...


let's look at history

Best defenders ever (according to NBA All Defensive Team nods)

KG
Jordan
Kobe
Gary Payton
Tim Duncan
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman



not going to list them all but you have Hakeem and Deke and that's it...


out of all the African centers and African players, where did all the great defenders go?

The best defenders in the league TODAY are Paul George, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, Tim Duncan, Joakim Noah, Chris Paul, Iman Shumpert....I could list PLENTY of non African players that are good-great defenders...you have Luol Deng and Ibaka....who else fam?

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

Best part of the game for me.

>Best part of the game for me.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Oh shit

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

And early on they were almost all big men, teams were not scouring Africa when travel was challenging and international scouting wasn't as common, they wanted some "Air Up There" type shit that would change their program.

Dude on Xavier, Romain Sato (sp?) was like the first real featured African guard I saw and I think he picked up the game late, like 14 or 15, had played soccer previously. Same shit with Dalembert, whom I realize is not African, but Haiti is like a little slice of Africa in the Caribbean, no?

So, if we are talking about actual Africans, there is an explanation that goes beyond "Oh, they long-armed Africans" (c) OE.

Oladipo is American though, isn't he? Born here, I mean, I know his parents are immigrants. He is a two-way player, sure he excels on defense but I wouldn't lump him in with guys who are specialists. There are a lot of second and third generation Africans in the NFL, NBA and even a couple in the NHL (Kyle Okposo and Jarome Iginla both have Nigerian born fathers, I believe). I think we'll see more diversity in talent in those later generations and really we already are.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

- there's a conversation about immigrants working harder,
valuing education, coming from two parent homes, which
fosters hard work, etc.

- there's a conversation in here about kids from poor
countries, in particular, being very receptive to teaching
because they know about the alternatives better than
Americans, appreciate the opportunities more than Americans
do

- there's something in here about white people liking
poor blacks from other countries because they are more
obedient, demand less, etc (See: Sheffield's correct but
poorly-phrased point about Latinos in baseball)

- there's something in here about the body/genetic makeup of
west Africans

- there's something in here about the rise of West African
NFL prospects, which is increasing in proportion
to how long they are in the US (New York Giants had two
nigerians and a Haitian pass rushers on the same defensive
line)

- there's something in here about the positions that get
dominated by Africans being the ones that require the least
"skill" -- you'll see African quarterbacks and point guards
after you will power forwards and centers (Columbia University
had a Nigerian QB a few years back, though, god bless that
niglet).


Some of these are related to interesting phenomenon.

Some of them aren't.

Its complicated, and the OP doesn't do any of these points
justice.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I find some of those convos dull, too, they are just unimaginative re-hashing of similar debates about black american athletes vs white american athletes or poor black american athletes versus middle class or upper class black american athletes.

To me sports are a specialized thing at a high level and a case by case thing. Anywhere you can instill a strong culture around a sport, that place is going to produce some top level players ultimately.

Some of the generalizations there are true but how instructive are they? Maybe an overlooked source of talent could get identified, but at this point I kind of feel like all cats are bagless and it's just a matter of doing the work on the ground to expand each individual sport.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

i forgot how to spell it

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.