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Subject: "David Robinson is the most underrated player of all time" Previous topic | Next topic
AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 08:46 AM

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"David Robinson is the most underrated player of all time"
Thu Feb-14-13 09:31 AM by AnonymousCoward

  

          

When he was playing, I always thought of a 2nd tier superstar, on par with Zeke and slightly above Drexler. You never see him mentioned on anyone's top-10 list, and rarely anyone's top-20. However, when you look at the stats, it becomes evident that,of his contemporaries only Jordan was CLEARLY better. You can make an argument for Hakeem, ,but it's just that...an argument.

The Admiral's resume includes:

10 Time All-star
Rookie of The Year
1 MVP
1 DPOY
All NBA, 1st team x4, 2nd team x3, 3rd team x4
Scoring title
4th Highest career PER
10th Highest career WS
The highest single season PER of any player not named Wilt, MJ or LeBron

The Admiral was better than Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Kobe, KG and possibly even Duncan.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I agree.
Feb 14th 2013
1
kinda weird how he preferred take it from the top of the key
Feb 14th 2013
2
He could beat 90% of the centers in the NBA off the dribble
Feb 14th 2013
11
also, subject of a GOAT photobomb http://i.imgur.com/ylRz8.gif
Feb 14th 2013
3
and how you'd forget 2x NBA Champion?
Feb 14th 2013
4
rings don't matter
Feb 14th 2013
5
      Lakers fans be like http://i.imgur.com/dAUpv.gif
Feb 14th 2013
8
      lies we tell ourselves
Feb 14th 2013
9
      troll troll troll your post, gently down the page
Feb 14th 2013
35
whaaaaaat?????.......no he is not.
Feb 14th 2013
6
Elmo stole his shine
Feb 14th 2013
7
I always thought Robinson was over the hill for that 1st ring
Feb 14th 2013
12
He was basically Rupaul status in '99 and Chandler in '03
Feb 14th 2013
97
The thing is, Duncan's legacy would probably be a lot different if he...
Feb 14th 2013
13
Kinda like Kobe Bryant: Charlotte Hornet
Feb 14th 2013
47
i mostly disagree...he's been a title contender for 4 iterations of a te...
Feb 14th 2013
55
Unlike Bean being carried on Shaq's back, riiiiiiiight.
Feb 14th 2013
98
probably not.
Feb 15th 2013
116
more like Elmo saved him & gave him a chance to win rings
Feb 14th 2013
14
Robinson was already a first ballot HOF'er when Timmy got there
Feb 14th 2013
19
      sure, also on the downside of his career & never woulda sniffed a ring
Feb 14th 2013
24
Before Tim Duncan came the views on the Admiral were totally diff
Feb 14th 2013
31
^ true stories
Feb 14th 2013
33
saved me the effort
Feb 14th 2013
45
this is EXACTLY why this entire post is completely laughable...
Feb 14th 2013
48
Barkley didn't eat anybody's food...unless you mean that literally
Feb 14th 2013
49
      who was olajuwon's best teammate his first 8 seasons?
Feb 15th 2013
109
           Ralph Sampson
Feb 15th 2013
112
Mail Man had the best physique
Feb 15th 2013
118
Dream was clearly better. Not an argument. Just the truth.
Feb 14th 2013
10
Dream sonned him in one 6 game series. ONE
Feb 14th 2013
15
Dream was so good he's still guru to today's best
Feb 14th 2013
22
eh, so Dream is a master technician and teacher
Feb 14th 2013
26
      he taught the Kobester
Feb 14th 2013
27
The only time they ever played in the playoffs.
Feb 14th 2013
29
cmon...dude had a 25 PER in 99 on 32 mpg
Feb 14th 2013
37
did DRob ever son Dream doe?
Feb 15th 2013
110
RE: Dream was clearly better. Not an argument. Just the truth.
Feb 14th 2013
16
I'm a Knicks fan. Robinson was better
Feb 14th 2013
18
definitely just you
Feb 14th 2013
17
Dream clowned the admiral
Feb 14th 2013
20
logical fallacy only applied in basketball
Feb 14th 2013
23
      did he ever son BHop?
Feb 15th 2013
111
D-Rob just never had the "clutch" gene in him
Feb 14th 2013
51
i agree but i would say
Feb 14th 2013
56
the term underrated is so overrated
Feb 14th 2013
21
Plus he had one of the greatest video games EVER!
Feb 14th 2013
25
71
Feb 14th 2013
28
They musta forgot(c)rjj
Feb 14th 2013
32
Arenas has a 60 point game against Kobe, DRob clowned on Bo Outlaw
Feb 14th 2013
96
On the Olajuwon thing:
Feb 14th 2013
30
By OKS logic, Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron
Feb 14th 2013
34
      RE: By OKS logic, Dirk=Lebron
Feb 14th 2013
36
           .
Feb 14th 2013
38
           When they played in the Finals what happened?
Feb 14th 2013
39
                Dirk Shined. Lebron Choked
Feb 14th 2013
63
                     ^Real talk.....Dirk/LBJ didn't guard each other
Feb 14th 2013
95
I thought you were making a case for him being underrated
Feb 14th 2013
40
Kevin Mchale and Robert Parrish might not agree
Feb 14th 2013
41
abolutely false.
Feb 14th 2013
42
I'd say 3 is false as well
Feb 14th 2013
43
yeah, DRob wasn't better than Chuck.
Feb 14th 2013
44
Dream was not consumed with basketball...
Feb 14th 2013
52
I would take Malone over Robinson every damn day
Feb 14th 2013
90
      #lacksclutchgene
Feb 14th 2013
101
           That could be said of most of those guys
Feb 14th 2013
103
                Barkley>Mail Man > Admiral
Feb 14th 2013
104
                     F>F>C?
Feb 15th 2013
113
                     Just player to player, otherwise
Feb 15th 2013
117
                     That was my order for years but I was blinded by emotion
Feb 15th 2013
121
I'd say he's pretty perfectly rated.
Feb 14th 2013
46
I agree.
Feb 14th 2013
53
Pretty much...
Feb 14th 2013
58
agreed.
Feb 14th 2013
60
I mean among centers but overall I think he is a tad overlooked
Feb 15th 2013
122
KG is pretty much the modern day Admiral
Feb 14th 2013
50
If KG has started his career on the same team with the Admiral like...
Feb 14th 2013
91
      I didn't say otherwise but Elmo actually has the chips to show for it
Feb 14th 2013
94
      KG would probably still have 1 ring so not really.
Feb 15th 2013
119
      only way KG status=TD is by goin out in a hail of bullets like Pac & BIG
Feb 15th 2013
120
not sure he's underrated..... he's ranked about where he should be
Feb 14th 2013
54
lulz@ Russell
Feb 14th 2013
57
Dawg....you one of them? Lol
Feb 14th 2013
61
here's the thing about Russell...
Feb 14th 2013
67
      My dad and uncles saw him play.
Feb 14th 2013
71
      Meh. Old people think everything was better back in their day.
Feb 14th 2013
73
      you didn't have to see the earth created to know it was great
Feb 14th 2013
85
           THANK U b/w uh, yeah, my dad saw both those guys play. A lot
Feb 15th 2013
123
c'mon son
Feb 14th 2013
62
right, exactly
Feb 15th 2013
124
He's in the top 10 of C's all time though right?
Feb 14th 2013
59
Why are we so certain that Shaq was better?
Feb 14th 2013
66
      shaq was better than duncan, duncan was better than 50
Feb 14th 2013
68
      Prime Shaq, no question.....post/pre 3peat Shaq hell naw
Feb 14th 2013
99
           shaq turned the corner on him before the threepeat
Feb 15th 2013
128
                '99 was the year Elmo ended Shaq reign as the best big in the game
Feb 15th 2013
130
      Even without rings and teammates, Shaq eats David's lunch.
Feb 14th 2013
69
      Shaq in his prime
Feb 14th 2013
70
      Shaq's prime was the weakest era for the center position
Feb 14th 2013
74
           I'd argue
Feb 14th 2013
77
           You might not know but he was, by a fairly wide margin.
Feb 14th 2013
79
           What did Shaq do better than Robinson?
Feb 14th 2013
82
                Dominate.
Feb 14th 2013
84
                oh so we back to technique now. in which case Hakeem>>>David
Feb 14th 2013
86
                Being a technician doesn't matter and niether do rings!
Feb 14th 2013
88
                Give credit when credit is due
Feb 14th 2013
100
           Psst... Jordan dominated that era of great centers.
Feb 14th 2013
81
      Dude unless Right Today you have a flattop & a bushy mustache...
Feb 14th 2013
72
      Well first, that was just a list of the 10, not my rankings.
Feb 14th 2013
75
      Shaq better, BUT when you consider competition and teammates
Feb 14th 2013
78
           not really.
Feb 14th 2013
80
           It's not really close. You haven't presented much of a case either.
Feb 14th 2013
83
           eh, it's not close enough to call close, shaq was CLEARLY better
Feb 15th 2013
126
      Come on man, Robinson NEVER dominated like Shaq
Feb 14th 2013
93
I'd Take Ewing over Robinson All Day
Feb 14th 2013
64
Why's that?
Feb 14th 2013
65
      I'm gonna say it starts with him being a Knick fan
Feb 14th 2013
87
           I want to give him a fair chance
Feb 14th 2013
92
                Honestly, David Robinson Couldn't Handle NY IMO
Feb 14th 2013
102
                     I guess we are going to have
Feb 15th 2013
115
lol bill russell lol
Feb 14th 2013
76
log off fam.....
Feb 14th 2013
105
An all time great defender vs a guy who barely avg 1 block/game?
Feb 15th 2013
114
He is definitely underrated, I dunno about most underrated
Feb 14th 2013
89
Here's where the 'ring' argument is relevant.
Feb 15th 2013
106
*Dream shakes all over this post*
Feb 15th 2013
107
Hakeem better
Feb 15th 2013
108
hakeem was better in every way, talent, career, accomplishment
Feb 15th 2013
125
      Statistically, they're very similar.
Feb 15th 2013
127
           right, on paper they produce evenly across categories and ...
Feb 15th 2013
129
                Horry was a beast and their outside shooter were money in the bank
Feb 15th 2013
131
Actually that would be Moses Malone
Feb 18th 2013
132
He had a scoring title?
Feb 18th 2013
133
He got Shaq beat w/ 71 at the last game of the season
Feb 18th 2013
134
5 people in NBA history won MVP & DPOY, D-Rob, MJ, Dream, KG, Giannis...
Apr 21st 2022
135
Underrated, yes. But I still think this title goes to Kareem
Apr 22nd 2022
136

ThaTruth
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Thu Feb-14-13 08:52 AM

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1. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 08:55 AM

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2. "kinda weird how he preferred take it from the top of the key"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and drive to the hoop so much

big man with his skill set you would think would prefer to post up 90% of the time

That's just how I remember his game though obviously it's been a long time since I've seen footage of him

agreed on underrated though

how much of Timmy's success can we attribute to the Admiral's mentorship?

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:16 AM

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11. "He could beat 90% of the centers in the NBA off the dribble"
In response to Reply # 2


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Thu Feb-14-13 08:58 AM

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3. "also, subject of a GOAT photobomb http://i.imgur.com/ylRz8.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/ylRz8.gif

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Thu Feb-14-13 08:59 AM

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4. "and how you'd forget 2x NBA Champion?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 09:00 AM

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5. "rings don't matter"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu Feb-14-13 09:02 AM by AnonymousCoward

  

          

See Bryant, Kobe or Russell, Bill.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:06 AM

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8. "Lakers fans be like http://i.imgur.com/dAUpv.gif"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/dAUpv.gif

>See Bryant, Kobe or Russell, Bill.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 09:08 AM

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9. "lies we tell ourselves"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 11:35 AM

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35. "troll troll troll your post, gently down the page"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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Ink_Spot
Member since Mar 26th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:02 AM

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6. "whaaaaaat?????.......no he is not."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.....

  

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melmag
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:05 AM

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7. "Elmo stole his shine"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-14-13 09:13 AM by melmag

  

          

ironic too cus Elmo was one of the most understated superstars ever. If Duncan never happened, he'll prolly be respected/valued more.

And getting murked by Dream in the 'offs dint help either.. that iconic footage of Dream has somehow become his lasting legacy

but I called it b4 tho.. best basketball physique ever! neither Dwight nor Bron got nothing on Admiral. lol

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:17 AM

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12. "I always thought Robinson was over the hill for that 1st ring"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

but that season Robinson actually had a higher PER, WS/48, Reb%, Block% than Duncan.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:27 PM

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97. "He was basically Rupaul status in '99 and Chandler in '03"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

C'mon now, all due to Elmo but Admiral was ballin' in '99. In '03 he was still a force on the defensive end.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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13. "The thing is, Duncan's legacy would probably be a lot different if he..."
In response to Reply # 7


          

hadnt lucked out and landed on a team with Robinson instead of a typical lottery team

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ErnestLee
Member since Mar 03rd 2003
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Thu Feb-14-13 01:23 PM

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47. "Kinda like Kobe Bryant: Charlotte Hornet"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------

  

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rob
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:45 PM

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55. "i mostly disagree...he's been a title contender for 4 iterations of a te..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

winning titles with 2 (or debatably 3) different squads.

yes it would have been a different story, but he would have found a way to some titles and mvp-level seasons regardless

  

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FILF
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:28 PM

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98. "Unlike Bean being carried on Shaq's back, riiiiiiiight. "
In response to Reply # 13
Thu Feb-14-13 10:29 PM by FILF

  

          

Elmo was presented w/ an opportunity and he took full advantage and then some. He is practically an over achiever among all time greats.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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116. "probably not."
In response to Reply # 13


          


___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Bombastic
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:22 AM

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14. "more like Elmo saved him & gave him a chance to win rings"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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ThaTruth
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19. "Robinson was already a first ballot HOF'er when Timmy got there"
In response to Reply # 14


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Bombastic
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24. "sure, also on the downside of his career & never woulda sniffed a ring"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

so I don't wanna hear any nonsense about how Duncan stole his shine, that's just not the case.

Duncan is the reason that dude has two shiny rings, that last one he was a role player at best for too.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:39 AM

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31. "Before Tim Duncan came the views on the Admiral were totally diff"
In response to Reply # 7


          

He was a choker and soft.

A regular season player.


Barkley ate his food a lil bit.

Karl Malone really ate his food.

Dream left him his food but only cuz he farted in the whole dinner even dessert.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:51 AM

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33. "^ true stories"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Thu Feb-14-13 12:55 PM

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45. "saved me the effort"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

>He was a choker and soft.
>
>A regular season player.
>
>
>Barkley ate his food a lil bit.
>
>Karl Malone really ate his food.
>
>Dream left him his food but only cuz he farted in the whole
>dinner even dessert.

Peyton Manning of the NBA kind of. Beautiful stats then folded in the clutch.

  

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CyrenYoung
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Thu Feb-14-13 02:03 PM

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48. "this is EXACTLY why this entire post is completely laughable..."
In response to Reply # 31
Thu Feb-14-13 02:09 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..no shade against robinson, but he was far from underrated

dude was certainly talented, skilled, and disciplined. beyond that, he was mostly considered a career underachiever until duncan came along (at the tail end of the robs career). before that, he was the guy that always looked good on paper (stats), but couldn't really get it done.


-------
"..i was born a free man. nobody beat me accept i beat them right back..."

..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 02:27 PM

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49. "Barkley didn't eat anybody's food...unless you mean that literally"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Before Duncan, The Admiral's best teammate was Sean Elliot. In his 8 pre-Duncan years, Robinson went to the playoffs 6 times, and only failed to advance twice. One of the years they missed the playoffs was the year he only played 6 games.

Olajuwon played on better teams and had 5 first round exits in his first 8 seasons.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Fri Feb-15-13 05:30 AM

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109. "who was olajuwon's best teammate his first 8 seasons?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Fri Feb-15-13 07:53 AM

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112. "Ralph Sampson"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

Followed by Sleepy Floyd, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, and Vernon Maxwell

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Fri Feb-15-13 03:24 PM

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118. "Mail Man had the best physique"
In response to Reply # 7
Fri Feb-15-13 03:24 PM by FILF

  

          

>but I called it b4 tho.. best basketball physique ever!
>neither Dwight nor Bron got nothing on Admiral. lol

DRob was all upper body and no legs.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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10. "Dream was clearly better. Not an argument. Just the truth."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-14-13 09:15 AM by TheRealBillyOcean

          

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on Pat vs Admiral though.

Barkley's clearly better too.

I'd probably go with Pat. But that's just me.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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15. "Dream sonned him in one 6 game series. ONE"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Feb-14-13 09:39 AM by AnonymousCoward

  

          

That does not mean that he was clearly a better player for the majority of their careers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=olajuha01

In regular season matchups, their block, rebound and assist numbers are virtually identical. Hakeem averaged 2 more points...on 6 more shots. Robinson's teams were 30-12 in those matchups.

Dream was probably better, but not clearly and demonstrably so.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:53 AM

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22. "Dream was so good he's still guru to today's best"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

this is a prime example of how stats lie

Admiral wasn't showing nothing to nobody technique wise

Duncan benefited from a leadership / experience standpoint solely

  

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AnonymousCoward
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26. "eh, so Dream is a master technician and teacher"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

Doesn't make him the better player. Jorn ain't teaching nobody shit, and he's the GOAT.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:06 AM

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27. "he taught the Kobester"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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29. "The only time they ever played in the playoffs."
In response to Reply # 15


          

Dream was the man who led his team to back to back titles.

David Robinson was supporting actor on one title and then a character actor on the other.

That shit is clear.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 11:42 AM

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37. "cmon...dude had a 25 PER in 99 on 32 mpg"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 05:31 AM

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110. "did DRob ever son Dream doe?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Numba_33
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16. "RE: Dream was clearly better. Not an argument. Just the truth."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>I'd probably go with Pat. But that's just me.

I'm an Ewing fan, as evidenced by the screen name, but I'd go with David Robinson as I rememeber him being much quicker than Ewing when both were in their relative primes.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:35 AM

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18. "I'm a Knicks fan. Robinson was better"
In response to Reply # 16
Thu Feb-14-13 09:35 AM by AnonymousCoward

  

          

Quicker, more athletic, better defender, more polished offensive game, slightly better head-to-head.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=robinda01&p2=ewingpa01

Pat was tougher and more of a leader. It's close, but Admiral was better.




http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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melmag
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17. "definitely just you"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


>I'd probably go with Pat. But that's just me.

Admiral was clearly better in every aspect of the game, not even debateable

  

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Binlahab
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20. "Dream clowned the admiral"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

He's better period.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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Thu Feb-14-13 09:57 AM

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23. "logical fallacy only applied in basketball"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Is Jermaine tailor a better boxer than B-hop?

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 05:32 AM

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111. "did he ever son BHop?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:29 PM

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51. "D-Rob just never had the "clutch" gene in him"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

He's better than Ewing though

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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rob
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:48 PM

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56. "i agree but i would say"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

1. dream

2a. admiral
2b. barkley (but i could easily see him at 2)

3. pat

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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21. "the term underrated is so overrated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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bnicedh
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:00 AM

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25. "Plus he had one of the greatest video games EVER!"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-14-13 10:01 AM by bnicedh

  

          

.

  

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FromTheGo
Member since Feb 04th 2003
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:09 AM

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28. "71"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
http://s17.postimg.org/6r7bfqpnz/kyrieglass.jpg - They Call Him Mr. Glass

  

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ThaTruth
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32. "They musta forgot(c)rjj"
In response to Reply # 28


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:25 PM

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96. "Arenas has a 60 point game against Kobe, DRob clowned on Bo Outlaw"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:33 AM

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30. "On the Olajuwon thing:"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-14-13 10:35 AM by AnonymousCoward

  

          

Dream was probably better, but it's laughable to say that we can use a 6 game sample of two guys who played a combined 2493 NBA games to determine one was the better player.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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ThaTruth
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34. "By OKS logic, Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lebron"
In response to Reply # 30


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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Thu Feb-14-13 11:40 AM

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36. "RE: By OKS logic, Dirk=Lebron"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

they both have 1 ring.

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 11:46 AM

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38. "."
In response to Reply # 36
Thu Feb-14-13 11:54 AM by CherNic

  

          

.

  

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ThaTruth
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39. "When they played in the Finals what happened?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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RexLongfellow
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63. "Dirk Shined. Lebron Choked"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

That doesn't mean they went head to head
Olajuwon went to Robinson head to head and delivered one of the worst head to head destructions basketball has seen...the way Olajuwon was abusing Robinson he should've been arrested

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 10:23 PM

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95. "^Real talk.....Dirk/LBJ didn't guard each other "
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
44848 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 11:54 AM

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40. "I thought you were making a case for him being underrated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As in, people don't rate him highly enough and why he should be ranked higher. I'm seeing you say those things, not really seeing the case being made for them.

This idea that rings don't matter is nonsense; it's a convenient argument for your premise and nothing more. This is even more egregious when you bring Dream into the conversation, calling it "just an argument". In the end, the two are actually pretty similar, statistically speaking. Dream still has an edge to win this battle though.

Listen to Dream himself tell you about his skills (pulledfrom wiki):

Olajuwon has referred to basketball as a science, and described his signature move in vivid detail: "When the point guard throws me the ball, I jump to get the ball. But this jump is the set-up for the second move, the baseline move. I call it the 'touch landing.' The defender is waiting for me to come down because I jumped but I’m gone before I land. Defenders say 'Wow, he’s quick,' but they don’t know that where I’m going is predetermined. He’s basing it on quickness, but the jump is to set him up. Before I come down, I make my move. When you jump, you turn as you land. Boom! The defender can’t react because he’s waiting for you to come down to defend you. Now, the first time when you showed that quickness, he has to react to that quickness, so you can fake baseline and go the other way with your jump hook. All this is part of the Dream Shake. The Dream Shake is you dribble and then you jump; now you don’t have a pivot foot. When I dribble I move it so when I come here, I jump. By jumping, I don’t have a pivot foot now. I dribble so now I can use either foot. I can go this way or this way. So he’s frozen, he doesn’t know which way I’m going to go. That is the shake. You put him in the mix and you jump stop and now you have choice of pivot foot. He doesn’t know where you’re gonna turn and when."

No, that doesn't "prove" Dream is the better player. That's a hell of an insight into how he approaches the game though. This sort of understanding of the game is precisely why he's so highly sought. It's not as though he's some coach from Indiana with great insight; he actually beasted off these techniques.

When Dream retired, he was top ten in scoring, rebounding, blocks, and steals. He was also the only person to ever do that.

He's also the only player to win MVP, Finals MVP, and DPOY in the same season. He's either first, second, or tied in blocked shots in a 4/5/7 game series, blocks in a half, blocks in a quarter. Where he is second or tied, he initially held the record before it was broken. He's got the highest career blocks average of any other player, not to mention he owns the blocks record overall. He's one of 5 people to lead the league in blocks and rebounds in the same season. He's one of 7 players to ever score 30 points in every game of a playoff series.

Comparitavely, Robinson was the only player to be top 5 in rebounds, blocks, and steals in the same season and the only player to be top 7 in 5 statistical categories.

Dream has more DPOY (by 1) and 1st team All NBA/ALL Defense selections, by 2 I believe.

Dreams career point, block, and rebound averages are higher than Admirals. Admiral leads in FG% and FT%. None of these numbers are all that far apart, usually within a few points. Admiral gets PER and WS by fair margins.

So, we can see that while they are statistically similar and both have some incredible feats to their credit, Dream still maintains that overall edge. He also won two titles at the peak of his career and won those two Finals MVP's. Those, sorry to say, do seperate the men from the boys at this level. They just do.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Thu Feb-14-13 12:13 PM

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41. "Kevin Mchale and Robert Parrish might not agree"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Mchale is somewhat forgotten when pf's are talked about amongest the greatest though kevin garnett and charles barkley talk about him being the best one they saw.

Robert Parrish never gets much love and he had a great career.

david robinson had a nickname back when it counted to have one so he is hardly underrated.

71 points, rings, mvp, all star, gold medal

he was just considered too corny to be a pitch man.

very strong cat that was still seen as soft until rodman came to town.

of course him and mr.duncan made history together david robinson had his john elway send off.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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JohnnyKilroy
Member since May 02nd 2012
930 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 12:21 PM

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42. "abolutely false. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

1. Dream better. Always was.

2. He wasn't on par with Zeke. He didn't have the same drive, nor was he totally consumed by basketball the same way Zeke and Dream were. DR was good, but he was always a guy you could not win a ring with because he didn't elevate his teammates level of play the same way Zeke and Dream did.

3. At their peaks, the only players you listed that DR was better than was Stockton and Malone. DR had a better overall career than Barkley, but at their peaks, Barkley was more dominant. Kobe too.


>When he was playing, I always thought of a 2nd tier
>superstar, on par with Zeke and slightly above Drexler. You
>never see him mentioned on anyone's top-10 list, and rarely
>anyone's top-20. However, when you look at the stats, it
>becomes evident that,of his contemporaries only Jordan was
>CLEARLY better. You can make an argument for Hakeem, ,but it's
>just that...an argument.
>
>The Admiral's resume includes:
>
>10 Time All-star
>Rookie of The Year
>1 MVP
>1 DPOY
>All NBA, 1st team x4, 2nd team x3, 3rd team x4
>Scoring title
>4th Highest career PER
>10th Highest career WS
>The highest single season PER of any player not named Wilt, MJ
>or LeBron
>
>The Admiral was better than Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Kobe,
>KG and possibly even Duncan.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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43. "I'd say 3 is false as well"
In response to Reply # 42


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Bombastic
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Thu Feb-14-13 12:36 PM

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44. "yeah, DRob wasn't better than Chuck."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:31 PM

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52. "Dream was not consumed with basketball..."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

in fact early in his career he's said he took it for granted...

He later dedicated himself to his skills around the same time he re-dedicated himself to his religon...then the rest is history..

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 06:52 PM

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90. "I would take Malone over Robinson every damn day"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Shit Malone might be the most underrated player ever, reading this thread at least. Later in his career he was not that great in the playoffs (ironically the team around him was at its best, the western conference arguably at its worst), but it wasn't a habitual thing.

The guy ran the floor as well as anyone I have ever seen and was a master of the pick and roll. He could face the basket or post up on offense, he was the PF playing the center's offensive role way before it was fashionable. He generally played with a shot blocker and didn't do that too often but he was a very good man defender. He had spectacular hands and good range for a big, too. There really wasn't a hole in his game.

Barkley and I guess Robinson were better rebounders. Barkley was a better one-on-one player but who needs that when you've got Stockton? I would take Malone's post game. There is no denying Malone had a better career than Barkley. It pains me to admit it, but he was also the better player.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:44 PM

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101. "#lacksclutchgene "
In response to Reply # 90
Thu Feb-14-13 10:54 PM by FILF

  

          

Malone was also a system's player. He flourished in the PnR and passing to cutters. Asides from being able to run the floor as well as anyone that has played the game, he pretty much had a solid jump shot but I don't remember him dominating anyone in the post aside from the occasional fade away. Defensively, he did have great hands and he was an excellent man on man post defender but as you mentioned he didn't dominate the paint defensively either. When push came the shove, he was also not a guy that you could count on in the clutch.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71387 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 11:03 PM

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103. "That could be said of most of those guys"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

Barkley played big in big spots but he was in very few of them, especially before he was fat and back achey.

Robinson was a pretty average playoff performer overall.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 11:09 PM

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104. "Barkley>Mail Man > Admiral "
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Creole
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15425 posts
Fri Feb-15-13 09:19 AM

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113. "F>F>C?"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Feb-15-13 03:22 PM

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117. "Just player to player, otherwise"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

Modern Era: Elmo>McHale>Barkley>KG>Malone>Dirk>CWebb>Worthy>Rodman>Sheed

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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121. "That was my order for years but I was blinded by emotion"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

I fucking LOVED Chuck, man, I can remember the confusion and sadness when he had been traded, even though my dad told me it was likely to happen (he was not such a Barkley fan, though he later learned to love him).

And I HATED Malone. I remembered seeing him decapitate Zeke, fly in to guys with his legs out and all that bullshit. I also hated his country ass demeanor. I hated everything about him. I hated the Jazz and Jerry Sloan (although I liked Jeff Malone and their OG uniforms). I just couldn't stand anything about Karl Malone.

But over time, not only did he last longer, he proved to be the better, more effective, more accomplished and more complete player than Barkley was. If Barkley had Malone's physique and durability, sure, he would have been way better. But his other gifts didn't make up for that gap. I would probably throw dedication in there, too, but drinking and eating were what made Chuck, well, Chuck.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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bignick
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Thu Feb-14-13 01:20 PM

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46. "I'd say he's pretty perfectly rated. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


  

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guru0509
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53. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          


______________________
Ghostface Killah - Bulletproof Wallets
One Be Lo - The R.E.B.I.R.T.H.
KRNDN - Everythings Nothing

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:03 PM

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58. "Pretty much..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Hall of fame player. Hall of fame career.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

  

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JohnnyKilroy
Member since May 02nd 2012
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:13 PM

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60. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 09:53 PM

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122. "I mean among centers but overall I think he is a tad overlooked"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I would have him in the top 30 all time, I think. You seldom hear him talked about anymore.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:27 PM

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50. "KG is pretty much the modern day Admiral "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First ballot HOfers who couldn't carry corpses on their back to promise land during their primes.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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91. "If KG has started his career on the same team with the Admiral like..."
In response to Reply # 50


          

your boy Tim did things would be a lot different.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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FILF
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94. "I didn't say otherwise but Elmo actually has the chips to show for it"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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40thStreetBlack
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119. "KG would probably still have 1 ring so not really."
In response to Reply # 91


          



___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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Bombastic
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120. "only way KG status=TD is by goin out in a hail of bullets like Pac & BIG"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

^^^had to bring that one back for ya since you'd asked that question on what it would take for them to be viewed the same here many moons ago.

But seriously, pretending that regardless of cast KG was going to be mature enough to carry the load to be a first-team All-NBA as a rookie and then be The Guy on a title team the following year is just silly.

Duncan was the most ready-made star upon entry to the league that I've seen in my life.

Moving further to Wolves/Spurs, KG's '04 TWolves squad that couldn't even make the Finals was better than the '03 cast Duncan won his second chip & second Season/Finals MVPs while carrying.

Tim Duncan's been the only constant in a team that's won 50+ every year he's been in the league that wasn't a strike season.

That ain't an accident.

He's still better and more integral to winning than KG right today & KG's been remarkable from a longevity perspective.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:38 PM

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54. "not sure he's underrated..... he's ranked about where he should be"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean you have your trifecta of great centers.... Wilt...Russell...Kareem..

The next group who would sit at that table would be Moses.....Dream.....Shaq....

David Robinson would probably be in the next group after that.... probably....

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 03:50 PM

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57. "lulz@ Russell"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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61. "Dawg....you one of them? Lol"
In response to Reply # 57


          

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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AnonymousCoward
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67. "here's the thing about Russell..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

NOBODY SAW HIM PLAY. Not me, not you, not your father, not his father. The league didn't even have a television contract when he played. All we have to go on is anecdotal accounts and stats. The stats say hge was not an all-time great.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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71. "My dad and uncles saw him play. "
In response to Reply # 67


          

And it's been well documented how great he was.

Shit's facts. Not a conspiracy.

He's one on the shortlist as one of the best basketball players ever. Not the Admiral at all.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:41 PM

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73. "Meh. Old people think everything was better back in their day."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

  

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Warren Coolidge
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85. "you didn't have to see the earth created to know it was great"
In response to Reply # 67
Thu Feb-14-13 05:08 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

>NOBODY SAW HIM PLAY. Not me, not you, not your father, not
>his father. The league didn't even have a television contract
>when he played. All we have to go on is anecdotal accounts
>and stats. The stats say hge was not an all-time great.


there are measurables....

11 Championships....

the last one being as a Player/head coach.... (which by itself is something not done before or since)

12 year career averaging 22.5 rebounds per game.... They didn't count blocked shots back then, but he's known as the greatest shot blocker ever.... the best research says he probably averaged about 6-7 blocks per game in his prime....

You should understand something...When a player is the key figure in revolutionizing how a team sport is played..he deserves to be ranked high in that sport..

there is no question that the Boston Celtics revolutionized the way the game is played. The way defense was played and the way they used the floor up and down offensively.... Bill Russell's defense made that possible.

He's the central figure of the modern game of Basketball...more than any other player. You can't rank him ahead of Wilt or Kareem because of those guys prowess offensively....but you can't rank Moses, the Dream or Shaq ahead of him because what he did on the defensive end was at least as impactful as what those guys did offesnively...


plus here's the other thing..... I always say...tell me what Shaq's Field goal percentage and PPG would have been if the dunk was not allowed????

Russell....Wilt..... Kareem in college.....those guys had to deal with a game that outlawed the Dunk....

what would shaq have been without the dunk?

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 09:57 PM

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123. "THANK U b/w uh, yeah, my dad saw both those guys play. A lot"
In response to Reply # 85
Fri Feb-15-13 10:04 PM by ConcreteCharlie

  

          

AND in addition to local games, the league had weekly broadcasts on Friday nights AND by the time they were mature players they were on TV.

People didn't see Russell and Wilt? FOH. I've seen a good number of their games. The FINALS were on TV, I watched the entire Celtics-Royals Finals and several Celtics-Lakers.

I fucking HATE this idea of "oh, you never saw him play, so automatically he is crappier than any common 'star' today." Just sickening. It's especially upsetting in the NBA, where the league's *real* history has more or less been synced up with televised sports. It just had some stumbling blocks early gaining national interest.

you can do the man who beat the man thanks to kareem, too. kareem played against the wilts of the world, he also played against hakeem, ewing, et al. you can basically go from russell to shaq in one step with jabbar.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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JohnnyKilroy
Member since May 02nd 2012
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:16 PM

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62. "c'mon son"
In response to Reply # 57


          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 09:59 PM

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124. "right, exactly"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

you'd have the great talents and winners first with some order of wilt, cap, russ, shaq, moses, hakeem ... then you get into the next level of robinson, reed, ewing, thurmond, walton,howard, unseld, cowens, maybe dan issel, et al. he would probably be the best among that group, although cowens and unseld were goddamn beasts as undersized guys. walton was better, but didn't last long enough at a high level, obviously.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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59. "He's in the top 10 of C's all time though right?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cap, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Russell, Duncan, Robinson, Reed, Mikan...I dunno something like that.

Like Nick said, he's probably perfectly rated.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Thu Feb-14-13 04:24 PM

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66. "Why are we so certain that Shaq was better?"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Shaq's prime was an era where Big Z, Brad Miller, Ben Wallace and Jamaal Magloire were all-star centers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=robinda01&y1=2003&p2=onealsh01&y2=2011

He won more rings, but he played with Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron and KG.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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rob
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68. "shaq was better than duncan, duncan was better than 50"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

so it follows

i mean we're not talking extreme gaps here, and david robinson could blow up in a game in ways that the others couldn't

but if i were in a playoff series with one of the three in their primes, that's obviously the order

  

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FILF
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:34 PM

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99. "Prime Shaq, no question.....post/pre 3peat Shaq hell naw"
In response to Reply # 68
Thu Feb-14-13 10:34 PM by FILF

  

          

Elmo eviscerating Shaq in '03 is on the same level as Dream whipping up Admiral. He took down the big bully that no one dared to challenge for 3 straight post-seasons. DRob was soft to begin with so, in retrospect the destruction just doesn't have the same magnitude that it did have when it happened.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 10:05 PM

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128. "shaq turned the corner on him before the threepeat"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

and was still as good or better (more effective, i would argue) in 2006 when he got ring number four.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Feb-15-13 11:15 PM

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130. "'99 was the year Elmo ended Shaq reign as the best big in the game"
In response to Reply # 128
Fri Feb-15-13 11:15 PM by FILF

  

          

I got a copy of an SI magazine w/ those words written on the cover after the '99 sweep. Then Phil came along the year after and 3peat Shaq happened.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:30 PM

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69. "Even without rings and teammates, Shaq eats David's lunch. "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

Let's not get carried away.

I get looking at players in context. While everyone loves to chirp about the riches Kobe has had bestowed upon him, Shaq has had the same riches and that factors into how he is perceived far less than it is.

Still- all that aside? No. Sorry. Shaq is the better player and it's not even a question.

  

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Numba_33
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70. "Shaq in his prime"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

is much more unguardable than David Robinson was. Me might have been better defensively that Shaq, but I don't remember it being by such a huge margin that you'd give David Robinson the nod of Shaq based on any differences in defensive skills.

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:41 PM

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74. "Shaq's prime was the weakest era for the center position"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

He didn't sniff a ring until the other great centers were washed-up or retired. He was certainly more dominant than The Admiral, but I don't know about better.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Numba_33
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77. "I'd argue"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

that now is the era of the weakest centers, but overall I'm off the opinion that Shaq in his prime would present a tougher defensive effort than trying to guard David Robinson in his prime.

  

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Bombastic
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79. "You might not know but he was, by a fairly wide margin."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>He was certainly more dominant than The
>Admiral, but I don't know about better.

  

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AnonymousCoward
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:58 PM

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82. "What did Shaq do better than Robinson?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Better defender? Rebounder? Shooter? Passer? More or better moves?

You do realize that Shaq never lead the league in blocks or rebounds?

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 05:01 PM

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84. "Dominate. "
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 05:42 PM

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86. "oh so we back to technique now. in which case Hakeem>>>David"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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88. "Being a technician doesn't matter and niether do rings! "
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Don't you remember?!?!?

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:36 PM

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100. "Give credit when credit is due"
In response to Reply # 82
Thu Feb-14-13 10:36 PM by FILF

  

          

Shaq has been there, done that and has the chips to show for it. There is no questioning his legacy as the most dominant force of the early 2000s.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:55 PM

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81. "Psst... Jordan dominated that era of great centers. "
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Shaq won when he got Phil and Kobe on beast mode.
Shaq is still a better player than Admiral.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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72. "Dude unless Right Today you have a flattop & a bushy mustache..."
In response to Reply # 66


          

you have no reason to be this pressed.

He's not better than Shaq.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:45 PM

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75. "Well first, that was just a list of the 10, not my rankings."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

But second, Shaq was better.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:48 PM

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78. "Shaq better, BUT when you consider competition and teammates"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

it's closer than people think.

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Bombastic
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80. "not really."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>it's closer than people think.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Feb-14-13 05:00 PM

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83. "It's not really close. You haven't presented much of a case either. "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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126. "eh, it's not close enough to call close, shaq was CLEARLY better"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Shaq was the undisputed best player in the world for a period of at least five seasons. Robinson was never that for even one season. Even taking Jordan out of the equation to give him a chance, he wasn't. He wasn't the best player at his own position.

He was a big ass star, a hall of famer and a great player. Shaq was the baddest motherfucker in the universe.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 10:16 PM

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93. "Come on man, Robinson NEVER dominated like Shaq"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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RexLongfellow
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Thu Feb-14-13 04:18 PM

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64. "I'd Take Ewing over Robinson All Day"
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Numba_33
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65. "Why's that?"
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Bombastic
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87. "I'm gonna say it starts with him being a Knick fan "
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Numba_33
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92. "I want to give him a fair chance"
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and see what his reasons are.

  

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RexLongfellow
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102. "Honestly, David Robinson Couldn't Handle NY IMO"
In response to Reply # 92
Thu Feb-14-13 10:47 PM by RexLongfellow

  

          

As many up and downs as Ewing had as a Knick, he handled the NY pressure better than most. He came close, but didn't get a ring.

I don't think Robinson could handle NY...he would buckle under that pressure.

As far as centers go, Ewing had a better post game and a better jumpshot. Robinson was far more athletic, and a better ball-handler. They both were great defensively, but Ewing personally was a tougher center. Ewing was also better in the playoffs (in their primes) and did more with less. Ewing played Olajuwon and O'Neal tougher than Robinson did. And if it wasn't for Duncan, Robinson wouldn't sniff a Finals appearance.

I know the #'s are against Ewing (at least in the reg. season), but he was tougher in a much more cruel market (NY) and in a tougher conference in their primes, dealing with tougher competition (tougher centers in the East than the West back then)

  

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Numba_33
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115. "I guess we are going to have"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

to agree to disagree because there's no way to prove either of us are correct in terms of David Robinson being able to handle NYC media, but dude was in the Armed Forces, which I don't think was a bed of roses on a daily basis. I won't say much more because I don't want to trash Ewing too much since he did so much for the Knicks and since there's no way to prove if David Robinson would have wilted under NYC scrutiny, but IMO David Robinson individually was a better player.

  

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Guinness
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76. "lol bill russell lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the black jack sikma

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Feb-14-13 11:12 PM

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105. "log off fam..... "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

Bill Russell was a great defender...

Jack Sikma was a liability on defense..

Bill Russell had no offense away from the basket...

all of Jack Sikma's offense was away from the basket..

  

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mtbatol
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 10:11 AM

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114. "An all time great defender vs a guy who barely avg 1 block/game?"
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Cool story, bro

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Thu Feb-14-13 06:47 PM

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89. "He is definitely underrated, I dunno about most underrated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think maybe Bob McAdoo carries that crown and there are some other arguables.

There were things that hurt Robinson, some he couldn't control (was very unassuming, played in San Antonio) and others maybe he could have. I never really remember him turning it on in the playoffs. As a supporting player, he was extremely important, as recently as the win over the Nets in 2003. But as the main man, I never saw him turn it up the way Hakeem did and even Ewing at times. He had some pretty weak series in there, too.

He was kind of like the Pepsi to Hakeem's Coke (or the other way around, I really don't give a fuck what soda is better).

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BSharp
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106. "Here's where the 'ring' argument is relevant."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Among the best players in the league for years, but never looked the part in the playoffs.

Great player. One of the best.

Not as good as Hakeem. No grounds to argue that he was better than Duncan IMO. Compare where Timmy is at in his career now as a 'role player' versus where Robinson was.

  

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DanSpeak
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107. "*Dream shakes all over this post*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 05:17 AM

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108. "Hakeem better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the only argument is who had the better career.

but Hakeem better.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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125. "hakeem was better in every way, talent, career, accomplishment"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

head to head, you name it.

robinson was the B+ grade version of hakeem basically.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Fri Feb-15-13 10:04 PM

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127. "Statistically, they're very similar. "
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

Dream has accomplished more rarities though.

Actually watching both men play shows the gap more than anything IMO.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Fri Feb-15-13 10:07 PM

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129. "right, on paper they produce evenly across categories and ..."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

at a similar volume

but let's not forget that hakeem had several mopey years, several achey years, several years in flux and, overall, was a mild underachiever in his career or at least he was up to a point.

you look at the best of their best, hakeem's is way better. hakeem was sick in the finals against boston. in both of the back to back years, he was arguably the most valuable player ANY champion has ever had, i have never seen a successful that relied as much on one guy.

kids will look at the second year with clyde, man clyde was slowing down fast and they were a six seed. i loved clyde but i felt like hakeem had to do even MORE that year than the season before overall.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
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Fri Feb-15-13 11:18 PM

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131. "Horry was a beast and their outside shooter were money in the bank"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

They don't call them clutch city for nothing. There isn't much difference b/w Hakeem during the 2peat and Elmo in 2003.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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melmag
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Mon Feb-18-13 04:19 PM

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132. "Actually that would be Moses Malone"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



NBA Champion (1983)
NBA Finals MVP (1983)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1979, 1982–1983)
12× NBA All-Star (1978–1989)
2× ABA All-Star (1975–1976)
4× All-NBA First Team (1979, 1982–1983, 1985)
4× All-NBA Second Team (1980–1981, 1984, 1987)
6× NBA rebounding champion (1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985)
NBA All-Defensive First Team (1983)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1979)
ABA All-Rookie Team (1975)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

  

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Deebot
Member since Oct 21st 2004
26762 posts
Mon Feb-18-13 04:26 PM

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133. "He had a scoring title?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Damb.

  

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Mon Feb-18-13 06:34 PM

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134. "He got Shaq beat w/ 71 at the last game of the season"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

I think that where the Shaq hate towards Admiral stems from.....he wanted to be call the best center in the association but Dream had them both beat when it mattered most.

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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ThaTruth
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Thu Apr-21-22 03:01 PM

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135. "5 people in NBA history won MVP & DPOY, D-Rob, MJ, Dream, KG, Giannis..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

only MJ & Dream did it in the same season...

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/the-only-players-in-nba-history-to-win-mvp-and-dpoy-awards

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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The Real
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136. "Underrated, yes. But I still think this title goes to Kareem"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  

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