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Subject: "Right-leaning films" Previous topic | Next topic
AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
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Thu Jul-26-12 10:03 AM

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"Right-leaning films"


  

          

I suspect Nolan is a republican, since TDK and TDKR are both pro-right fantasies. Forest Gump is definitely a rigth wing film. All the lefties are wrong/evil and Jenny pays the ultimate price for her libertine lifestyle.

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"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Most right-wing film ever? The Expendables.
Jul 26th 2012
1
RE: Most right-wing film ever?
Jul 26th 2012
4
      Jingoistic, but not overtly political
Jul 26th 2012
5
Nolan's films are largely inspired by Frank Miller, right wing nut
Jul 26th 2012
2
Eh, this last one is mostly inspired by Dixon and Rucka
Jul 26th 2012
8
      bottom line to me is our current Batman was birthed by a hate-filled man
Jul 26th 2012
9
           The whole helping troubled youth and orphans thing screams Reagan
Jul 26th 2012
23
           wat
Jul 26th 2012
27
                pretty sure all of that was meant to be sarcastic...
Jul 26th 2012
35
                     oh! (I didn't really get it either...)
Jul 26th 2012
37
           L Frank Baum was a virulent racist who advocated genocide against native...
Jul 26th 2012
30
                Wizard of Oz is intentionally a socialist story, soooo ... no
Jul 26th 2012
33
                     only argument you made was the author's political bent, soooo.... yeah
Jul 26th 2012
41
also fair/unfair to lump basically every Disney film in here?
Jul 26th 2012
3
FAIR
Jul 26th 2012
16
"An American Carol"
Jul 26th 2012
6
juno.
Jul 26th 2012
7
nah
Jul 26th 2012
17
      let the conservatives tell it.
Jul 28th 2012
54
StarShip Troopers Baby
Jul 26th 2012
10
isn't that meant as a parody of militaristic culture?
Jul 26th 2012
11
I file that as satire.
Jul 26th 2012
12
      ^^^
Jul 26th 2012
14
           Robocop is explicitly an indictment
Jul 26th 2012
18
                ^^^ Also correct
Jul 26th 2012
22
                YUP
Jul 28th 2012
49
                     they're remaking Robocop!?!!
Jul 28th 2012
51
                Yup
Jul 26th 2012
36
Atlas Shrugged.
Jul 26th 2012
13
All super heros are facists.
Jul 26th 2012
15
i wonder if this goes over people's head
Jul 26th 2012
19
      RE: i wonder if this goes over people's head
Jul 26th 2012
25
Just about anything John Milius has written can be considered
Jul 26th 2012
20
Apparently you guys don't understand the right-left axis.
Jul 26th 2012
21
I don't buy Nolan's Batman films as conservative exactly
Jul 26th 2012
24
yeah this pretty much negates the argument
Jul 26th 2012
26
      I'm not sure that it does...
Jul 26th 2012
32
           RE: I'm not sure that it does...
Jul 26th 2012
34
           I am.
Jul 27th 2012
45
                RE: I am.
Jul 28th 2012
47
                RE: I am.
Jul 30th 2012
60
                     RE: I am.
Jul 30th 2012
65
                          well....
Jul 30th 2012
66
the Dirty Harry movies
Jul 26th 2012
28
definitely. Death Wish too.
Jul 26th 2012
31
The shooting draft featured most of John Milius' uncredited
Jul 26th 2012
38
On the Waterfront
Jul 26th 2012
29
and how could I forget possibly the GOAT?! ---> Falling Down
Jul 26th 2012
39
Think ABOUT IT
Jul 26th 2012
40
Birth of a Nation nm
Jul 26th 2012
42
^^took it there ^^
Jul 27th 2012
46
not saying youre wrong
Jul 27th 2012
43
The Deer Hunter
Jul 27th 2012
44
Boogie Nights
Jul 28th 2012
48
i don't know about that.
Jul 28th 2012
52
      The hinge point is the New Year's Eve party
Jul 31st 2012
67
           What about the fact that he left his first family to join the Horners?
Jul 31st 2012
69
                I don't think Dirk needs to be whole
Jul 31st 2012
70
american psycho?
Jul 28th 2012
50
i would argue that's mostly an apolitical film
Jul 28th 2012
53
      i think i can agree with that
Jul 28th 2012
55
           strongly disagree.
Jul 28th 2012
56
                agreed.
Jul 28th 2012
57
                ehhh, I've read the book
Jul 29th 2012
59
                Yep. Satire.
Jul 30th 2012
64
RE: My Batman Breakdown, Cinderella Man and Rocky
Jul 29th 2012
58
i disagree with Forrest Gump
Jul 30th 2012
61
i dunno if it's as intentionally agenda based as people think
Jul 30th 2012
62
you guys could be right
Jul 30th 2012
63
Gump is a cypher
Jul 31st 2012
68

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Jul-26-12 10:09 AM

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1. "Most right-wing film ever? The Expendables."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not surprising, since Stallone, Willis, and Arnie are famous right-wingers, and they brought in Chuck Norris for Round 2...

... but it's a movie about a private covert ops group staging a coup of an evil foreign dictatorship by... killing everyone, lol. Moral superiority, anti-foreign governments, and execution on a mass scale without judge or jury. Classic!

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Thu Jul-26-12 10:58 AM

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4. "RE: Most right-wing film ever? "
In response to Reply # 1


          

Red Dawn.

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Thu Jul-26-12 10:58 AM

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5. "Jingoistic, but not overtly political"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Jul-26-12 10:13 AM

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2. "Nolan's films are largely inspired by Frank Miller, right wing nut"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-26-12 10:13 AM by celery77

  

          

http://frankmillerink.com/

^^ the man who defined the "real" Batman accoring to many fans ^^

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mrhood75
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Thu Jul-26-12 11:10 AM

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8. "Eh, this last one is mostly inspired by Dixon and Rucka"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

And while Dixon is about as about as far to the right as someone like Ditko, Rucka's about as far to the left as possible.

And Miller didn't go ape-shit right-wing until about 2001, long past all of the Batman stories that Nolan's Batman films drew from.

-----------------

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Jul-26-12 11:31 AM

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9. "bottom line to me is our current Batman was birthed by a hate-filled man"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

and it's become increasingly difficult for me to ignore that aspect of the character in most of our current iterations of him.

The God obviously gets a pass...

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Orbit_Established
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Thu Jul-26-12 01:22 PM

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23. "The whole helping troubled youth and orphans thing screams Reagan"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


As does his refusal to hunt down lower-level criminals,
but only go for those people really responsible

As does refusal to use guns



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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40thStreetBlack
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27. "wat"
In response to Reply # 23


          

>As does his refusal to hunt down lower-level criminals,
>but only go for those people really responsible

Wat

>As does refusal to use guns

WAT

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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Thu Jul-26-12 04:34 PM

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35. "pretty sure all of that was meant to be sarcastic..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

----

  

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celery77
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Thu Jul-26-12 04:48 PM

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37. "oh! (I didn't really get it either...)"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

and I know I'm not really supporting my statements, but whatevs

personally I think the righteous anger at a "world gone mad" is one of the central themes of the contemporary Batman that a lot of people connect with. it's also my least favorite aspect of the character, and I've personally tied it into Frank Miller.

fin

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40thStreetBlack
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30. "L Frank Baum was a virulent racist who advocated genocide against native..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

americans.

will that make it difficult for you to watch The Wizard of Oz / Oz: The Great and Powerful?

___________________

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celery77
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Thu Jul-26-12 03:57 PM

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33. "Wizard of Oz is intentionally a socialist story, soooo ... no"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

this isn't an example of "I dislike the fiction because I dislike the creator," this is an example of "I dislike the creator's politics which I see reflected in his creation, which in turn sours me on the creation."

try harder.

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40thStreetBlack
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41. "only argument you made was the author's political bent, soooo.... yeah"
In response to Reply # 33


          

and as previously mentioned Miller's political views didn't careen overboard to the right until over a decade after writing the source material.

do better.

___________________

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celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
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Thu Jul-26-12 10:15 AM

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3. "also fair/unfair to lump basically every Disney film in here?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___________

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astralblak
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Thu Jul-26-12 12:53 PM

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16. "FAIR"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

.

  

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mrhood75
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6. ""An American Carol""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But it that case, right "leaning" is an understatement.

-----------------

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Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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PlanetInfinite
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7. "juno."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
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astralblak
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Thu Jul-26-12 12:55 PM

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17. "nah"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Diablo said people shouldn't read that into the story. She just wanted to tell the tale of a girl who decided to keep a baby

  

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PlanetInfinite
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54. "let the conservatives tell it."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

  

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BigReg
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10. "StarShip Troopers Baby"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Might makes motherfucking right.

  

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celery77
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11. "isn't that meant as a parody of militaristic culture?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

but yeah -- considering the friend I had who was a HUGE fan of that film and his general taste / political sophistication, I think it's completely fair to say that the parody aspect was largely lost.

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Frank Longo
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12. "I file that as satire."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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ZooTown74
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14. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Verhoeven's Robocop should also not be taken as a literal call for extreme right-wing politics

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astralblak
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18. "Robocop is explicitly an indictment "
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

of 80s laissez fair capitalism and cop centered social paranoia

  

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ZooTown74
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22. "^^^ Also correct"
In response to Reply # 18
Thu Jul-26-12 01:17 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

I think (hope) that Reg was trying to be sarcastic

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BigReg
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49. "YUP"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>I think (hope) that Reg was trying to sarcastic

The kicker isi ts so over the top guaranteed its got its fans that dont get it. Which is why im mad the remake apparently is gonna tone all that shit down.

  

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astralblak
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Sat Jul-28-12 12:41 PM

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51. "they're remaking Robocop!?!!"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

:/

  

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spades
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36. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

********************************

Get Out The Room!
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
@fakewilliamkatt

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do!" - Olin Miller

  

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Hitokiri
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13. "Atlas Shrugged."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fuckthatshit.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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15. "All super heros are facists."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

  

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astralblak
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19. "i wonder if this goes over people's head"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

i mean outside of X-Men, most super Heroes ensure the safety and continued success of the State/Nation.

my left wing nut ass was in glee when Bane's "thugs" were tossing the privileged rich out into the snow and taking all they material shit

  

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Hitokiri
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25. "RE: i wonder if this goes over people's head"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


>my left wing nut ass was in glee when Bane's "thugs" were
>tossing the privileged rich out into the snow and taking all
>they material shit

Me too. I just didn't understand the reactions of the Gothamites.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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ZooTown74
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20. "Just about anything John Milius has written can be considered "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"right wing"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0587518/

That said, he co-wrote Apocalypse Now, and that's not exactly a right-wing fantasy

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Orbit_Established
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21. "Apparently you guys don't understand the right-left axis. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Because almost none of the movies being mentioned
are right-leaning

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
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Thu Jul-26-12 01:24 PM

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24. "I don't buy Nolan's Batman films as conservative exactly"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As discussed earlier, Frank Miller's version of Batman has had a huge influence on every adaptation after that so it's always going to come across a bit conservative, but I think you have to keep in mind that all of this exists within the world of Gotham. Nolan isn't blind of course, but Gotham is so far gone compared to the real U.S. that a 1-to-1 comparison isn't really intended imo.

The films have been interpreted as anti-big government when I think they're more anti-corruption. Batman's taking things into his own hands, but isn't that more because he knows the police force is so corrupt and inefficient that they can't do the dirty work? Or perhaps because the city is so strapped for cash that they don't have the resources? He doesn't simply dismiss the system either, he works with the people he trusts and lets the system pick up where he leaves off. When things are peaceful he lets the gov't take over completely.

Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost? I don't know that the films really answer those questions for Gotham let alone the larger world.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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26. "yeah this pretty much negates the argument"
In response to Reply # 24
Thu Jul-26-12 03:03 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a
>couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go
>along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to
>the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost?
>I don't know that the films really answer those questions for
>Gotham let alone the larger world.

___________________

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The Analyst
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Thu Jul-26-12 03:38 PM

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32. "I'm not sure that it does..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>>Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a
>>couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go
>>along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to
>>the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost?
>>I don't know that the films really answer those questions for
>>Gotham let alone the larger world.

To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping" element. Fox had beef with it, but ultimately he jumped on board and they used it anyway, and it was crucial - necessary, even - in making sure Batman found and defeated The Joker.

Also, there was that scene in TDKR where Catwoman and her friend were in some house that had been taken from the rich and the friend was happy about it but Selena was clearly not - she said something like, "this used to be someone elses..." or something. It was kind of her turning point when she "went good." Considering the bad guys sort of echo the right-wing perception of the OWS movement and socialism I thought Selena's refutation and eventual swing towards being a hero was a pretty blatant Fox News moment.

----

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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34. "RE: I'm not sure that it does..."
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Jul-26-12 04:01 PM by pretentious username

  

          

>
>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping"
>element. Fox had beef with it, but ultimately he jumped on
>board and they used it anyway, and it was crucial - necessary,
>even - in making sure Batman found and defeated The Joker.

as I said, it works, but at what cost? it leaves you with that question as fox leaves the room, effectively resigning. essentially saying "we got 'em this time, but what does this mean for the future?" along the same lines: the fake harvey dent story is created to maintain peace and order. gordon goes along with it reluctantly, but it's ultimately part of the unraveling of gotham. again, it begs the question of whether it was worth it?

I think the commentary is mostly people connecting the wrong dots. Batman is fighting agents of anarchy who are being misconstrued as agents of liberalism. And do people (not here, I mean in general) think this movie was written AFTER the occupy movement started?

  

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40thStreetBlack
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45. "I am."
In response to Reply # 32
Fri Jul-27-12 06:09 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping"
>element.

Absolutely not. Fox voices the moral objection to it that raises the issue of how far over the line is too far for Batman to go. Fox finally relents but tells Bruce that if it's still there afterwards he'll resign. Bruce built the self-destruct into it so that it can't be used again. If it unconditionally endorsed it they would have just used it without raising any issue over its use and wouldn't have made a point of destroying it after so it couldn't be used again.


>Also, there was that scene in TDKR where Catwoman and her
>friend were in some house that had been taken from the rich
>and the friend was happy about it but Selena was clearly not -
>she said something like, "this used to be someone elses..." or
>something. It was kind of her turning point when she "went
>good." Considering the bad guys sort of echo the right-wing
>perception of the OWS movement and socialism I thought
>Selena's refutation and eventual swing towards being a hero
>was a pretty blatant Fox News moment.

so because she had reservations about running people out of their homes and taking every last thing they own makes it right-wing? Wow.
and that wasn't her turning point; she said she takes from those who have far more than they'd ever need, not that she totally cleans them out and destroys their lives leaving them out on the street with nothing.

TDKR also shows rich people and politicians as morally bankrupt (dude with wifey in Ibiza & sleazy congressman hitting on Selena, Bruce saying these high-society fundraisers are thrown by old hags just to indulge their vanity) - not exactly Fox News fodder (well unless they're liberals that is)

___________________

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
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47. "RE: I am."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal
>wiretapping"
>>element.
>
>Absolutely not. Fox voices the moral objection to it that
>raises the issue of how far over the line is too far for
>Batman to go. Fox finally relents but tells Bruce that if it's
>still there afterwards he'll resign. Bruce built the
>self-destruct into it so that it can't be used again. If it
>unconditionally endorsed it they would have just used it
>without raising any issue over its use and wouldn't have made
>a point of destroying it after so it couldn't be used again.

Yeah, but like you said, all he did was "voice" his moral objection. Then he used it anyway. And they key is, they NEED it to beat Joker. At the end of the day, them needing it, using it, and winning with it, seems to me to suggest it's OK to use that kind of technology when extreme situations arise and ensuring safety is more important than invading some people's privacy. Sort of reminiscent of the Patriot Act.

And a lot of people in real life take approach too, so it's not that far fetched. I know a lot of people who supported the Patriot Act and the idea of secret wire-tapping if they thought it would help keep them safe.

----

  

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denny
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60. "RE: I am."
In response to Reply # 45


          

The change in heart of catwoman is certainly a turn from the left to the right. Private property and ownership is a cornerstone of right-wing idealogy. She starts the movie believing that stealing from the rich is justifiable....a leftist perspective. She changes her mind.

There's also all the allusions to the common critique of leftist revolutions wherein people are tried and prosecuted without due process....like in Cuba's revolution.

There's no doubt in my mind that there's a right-wing perspective in the movie.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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65. "RE: I am."
In response to Reply # 60


          

>The change in heart of catwoman is certainly a turn from the
>left to the right. Private property and ownership is a
>cornerstone of right-wing idealogy. She starts the movie
>believing that stealing from the rich is justifiable....a
>leftist perspective. She changes her mind.

she doesn't change her mind that stealing from the rich is justifiable - she justifies stealing from the rich by saying they have more than they could possibly ever need, not that they should be stripped of every last possession and thrown out into the street. she's a jewel thief, not a radical left-wing revolutionary.


>There's also all the allusions to the common critique of
>leftist revolutions wherein people are tried and prosecuted
>without due process....like in Cuba's revolution.

as opposed to right wing revolutions like in Pinochet's Chile?


you guys are reading too much into it.

___________________

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denny
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66. "well...."
In response to Reply # 65


          

the revolution in THE MOVIE is very clearly characteristic of a left-wing revolution. All the wealthy capitalists in a kangeroo court.

And the dialogue clearly shows that Catwoman was questioning her prior views....it went something like this:

'But this house used to belong to someone'

(Her Friend): 'But isn't this what you always wanted?'

(Catwoman stares off into distance)

I think alot of people are having problems because they enjoyed the movie....and they can't reconcile that with suggestion that it's message runs counter to their personal views. I don't have a horse in either race. I didn't really like the movie and I'm not a leftist.

There's simply too much allusions to the right to ignore....the patriot act thing, the value of property rights and ownership, tougher crime laws and jail sentencing instilled by Harvey Dent, the madness of the proletariat mob, the pro-police stance, the altruistic billionaire who saves the city, the failure of an environmentally friendly energy source, the inability for social institutions to solve social problems, etc.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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28. "the Dirty Harry movies"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I've never actually watched any of them but from what I've heard and the few scenes I've seen I think it's a safe bet to say so.

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pretentious username
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31. "definitely. Death Wish too."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
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38. "The shooting draft featured most of John Milius' uncredited"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

contributions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Harry#Development

___________________________________________________________________________
We out here trying to function.

  

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Mynoriti
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29. "On the Waterfront"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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celery77
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39. "and how could I forget possibly the GOAT?! ---> Falling Down"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

white man enacts righteous anger against minorities, old people, young people, whomever. that was one of those movies that REALLY changed when I watched it again later in life...

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

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handle
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40. "Think ABOUT IT"
In response to Reply # 39


          

One of the most despicable films I've ever seen. And I was the only person I knew who felt that way in REAL TIME.

It's like every lame/bullshit fantasy people have when presented with mild/petty irritations people say "He was so rude not holding the elevator for me - I wanted to shoot him in the head" actually came true.

Loved the skinhead character though - so outlandishly over the top he was enjoyable.

I think the next film this despicable was Crash (the Matt Dillon character was fun there.)

  

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DVS
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42. "Birth of a Nation nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Waldorf and Statler Vol 4:CONAN IS OUT NOW!!!: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

and don't forget to check "DVS 4 ALDERMAN"

http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/dvs-4-alderman-bandcamp-exclusive-expanded-editio

  

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smooth va
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46. "^^took it there ^^"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

"This is dedicated to whom it may concern."-Donny Hathaway

  

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justin_scott
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43. "not saying youre wrong"
In response to Reply # 0


          

But I enjoyed all the movies listed, right leaning or not, and NEVER noticed it (tho I don't look for it either)

************************************************************

  

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denny
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44. "The Deer Hunter"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Walleye
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48. "Boogie Nights"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It looks like a kind of Thomist aesthetic run through a fairly conventional story of the fall as a stubborn bit of self-assertion. I don't like that "right" is the tag for these things, but it is what it is.

I will say that boring lefties like me probably enjoy the way in which the pro-family narrative is cracked and put back together. That was fun.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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astralblak
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52. "i don't know about that."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

care to go deeper or clarify

  

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Walleye
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67. "The hinge point is the New Year's Eve party"
In response to Reply # 52


          

There's a lot of interesting stuff that occurs there, all kind of hung on a kind of charmingly over-stated transition between the 70s and the 80s, but the thing that always gets me is the rival producer bringing his kind of scuzzy, absurdly young looking actors to the party and pitching Jack on the virtues of videotape. The new actors offer a refigured view of sex-on-film which is tagged as something more realistic but which is actually (as we'll see when those actors start showing up in Jack's movies) something more abusive and contrary to what Jack understands as beauty. Similarly, videotape offers a solution to the industry's financial problems, but at the expense of beauty.

You've kind of got to apply a thick layer of irony over this whole thing. It's still porn. In spite of Dirk's "it's not cool and it's certainly not sexy" speech when he develops the Brock Landers character, it's not like they're constructing that statue of St. Theresa or something.

Anyhow, Aquinas' aesthetic has three characteristics of beauty: integrity, consonance, and clarity/radiance. This movie... isn't the place to really explore these ideas in great depth, but I like the idea that the current underneath the whole movie is a conversation about what beauty is, what it isn't, and the stakes for human believers in this discussion. The view of sex that Horner, etc. is trying to get on film is something idealized (at least to them) and beautiful, a weirdly cracked "holy sadness" that prompts the ascent of the soul. Not well, since it's still porn. But that's why it's funny.

Anyhow, all this is overlayed with Dirk's fall. It's a pretty modest reading. He's a wondrous performer and a gracious person, until he makes a willful self-assertion from the Horner "family" - prompted by a small mountain of cocaine. I don't think there's something necessarily "right" about pretty straightforward Christian themes like these, but for the sake of getting to talk about a movie I like it seems worth it to give in to conventional wisdom that Christian thought is the same as conservative thought.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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ZooTown74
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69. "What about the fact that he left his first family to join the Horners?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

If this really were a "conservative" narrative, wouldn't Dirk, in order to become whole again, actually return not to the Horner family in the end, but to his original one?

___________________________________________________________________________
We out here trying to function.

  

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Walleye
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70. "I don't think Dirk needs to be whole"
In response to Reply # 69


          

He just needs to repent. To cry like Ignatius of Loyola - whose feast day is today, incidentally. Anderson seems to have a lot of fun cracking idea of a traditional family without sacrificing its important. I don't disagree with you, though, as there's a taking-a-villageness to Dirk's time as viator that would make Hillary Clinton smile. But since the question said "right leaning" I figured I'd chirp up about the fairly traditional Christian themes in the movie about beauty and sin/grace.

It's not perfect, but metaphors that fit perfectly are kind of boring.





______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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GriftyMcgrift
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50. "american psycho?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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astralblak
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53. "i would argue that's mostly an apolitical film"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

more concerned with human nature and social pathology

  

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GriftyMcgrift
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55. "i think i can agree with that"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

its like a very right wing...setting but its more of just a backdrop, so politics doesnt really play a role

  

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denny
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56. "strongly disagree."
In response to Reply # 55


          

It's very clearly a critique of the 80's wall street/yuppie culture which is associated with the right. It's a left-leaning movie.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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57. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>It's very clearly a critique of the 80's wall street/yuppie
>culture which is associated with the right. It's a
>left-leaning movie.

more of a social critique than a political one, but the social group they're criticizing tend to be right wingers.

  

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astralblak
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59. "ehhh, I've read the book"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Bret Easton Ellis is no lefty, but you're definitely not off base about what he's critiquing

  

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Frank Longo
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64. "Yep. Satire."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

11/13: Hot Frosty (on Netflix)
11/23: Three Wiser Men & A Boy (on Hallmark)
11/27: Christmas Under the Lights (on Hallmark Mysteries)
12/14: The Santa Class (on Hallmark)

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
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58. "RE: My Batman Breakdown, Cinderella Man and Rocky"
In response to Reply # 0


          

**********DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED***********



>I suspect Nolan is a republican,
I doubt that.


The Batman Breakdown

Joker represents anarchy, order out of chaos philosophy. I like the Joker cause the nigga told the truth about the sad state of human affairs.
Batman/ Bruce Wayne represents oligarchy/military industrial complex. Like all superheroes he is hegelian in nature.
Harvey 2 face is hegelian/duality. He promotes the illusion of justice in the corrupt system.
Ra's Al Ghul represents the priesthood/mystery school. He has taken ancient wisdom teaching and corrupted them. On wikipedia they compare him to Osama Bin Laden and the comparison is valid, imo.

I don't see any of this as right wing. There is stuff in all of Nolan's films about different aspects of consciousness. IMO his movies are a bit too complex to label right wing.

Cinderella Man (2005) spoiler
Crowe's character was out of work during the Depression so he was getting a relief check. When he got employment he returned his welfare check back to the government,lol. That is clearly some republican shit right there.lol

I don't object to this because a real man should be able to handle his business and set his own wage. However, if hard times come along and you need some assistance from the food stamp president fine,lol, don't starve go and get that EBT card,lol.



Cinderella Man kinda reminded me of Rocky. Rocky has a similar theme about a man trying to lift his family out of poverty via becoming a boxer and acheiving the American Dream. IMO that is clearly a republican message.lol. I am no republican but i do love Rocky, lol, love that film.





  

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justin_scott
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61. "i disagree with Forrest Gump"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-30-12 01:35 AM by justin_scott

          

Jenny's problems stem from her abusive father, who definitely wasn't a leftist. and while i wouldn't say Forrest is a leftist, he definitely isn't right leaning. Lieutenant Dan had his leftist views too, and he won in the end...big time. I'd say Gump is right in the middle. Some right leaning, some left leaning.

************************************************************

  

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Mynoriti
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62. "i dunno if it's as intentionally agenda based as people think"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

but the result does appear that way, and it's not hard to see why people on both sides of the political spectrum see it as a right leaning film.

>Jenny's problems stem from her abusive father, who definitely
>wasn't a leftist.

her dad probably wasn't a lefty, but that's kind of irrelevant. we really didn't know anything about her father except he was abusive. her response to a bad childhood was to live a life of sex, drugs, and free love, associating with hippies (her anti-war boyfriend was ironically abusive). The Black Panther's were pretty cartoonish in their portrayal. she wasn't happy until she put all that behind her and got married to Forrest, but by then she paid the price for her ways by contracting AIDS.

and while i wouldn't say Forrest is a
>leftist, he definitely isn't right leaning. Lieutenant Dan had
>his leftist views too, and he won in the end...

Lietuenant Dan was a self-destructive blasphemous drunk who didn't win until he finally "made his peace with God"

i don't think it's as much about Forrest's political leanings, but more that he represents a narrative that life is really simple and wonderful if you just do the right thing, no matter what the obstacle. serve your country, start a business and get rich, get married, believe in god, don't do drugs, or sleep around. Dan and Jenny found all that out the hard way, and learned from the magical simpleton.

the only thing remotely left wing was the gag that someone with such a low IQ fit right in the army


  

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justin_scott
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63. "you guys could be right"
In response to Reply # 62


          

i just don't feel it was right leaning, but i'm willing to admit maybe i'm wrong

************************************************************

  

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handle
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68. "Gump is a cypher"
In response to Reply # 61


          

And the right make him fit their narrative.

Love to see Bubba Gump's BP Oil Spill happy ending.

  

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