I suspect Nolan is a republican, since TDK and TDKR are both pro-right fantasies. Forest Gump is definitely a rigth wing film. All the lefties are wrong/evil and Jenny pays the ultimate price for her libertine lifestyle.

Not surprising, since Stallone, Willis, and Arnie are famous right-wingers, and they brought in Chuck Norris for Round 2...

... but it's a movie about a private covert ops group staging a coup of an evil foreign dictatorship by... killing everyone, lol. Moral superiority, anti-foreign governments, and execution on a mass scale without judge or jury. Classic!

Red Dawn.

http://frankmillerink.com/

^^ the man who defined the "real" Batman accoring to many fans ^^

And while Dixon is about as about as far to the right as someone like Ditko, Rucka's about as far to the left as possible.

And Miller didn't go ape-shit right-wing until about 2001, long past all of the Batman stories that Nolan's Batman films drew from.

and it's become increasingly difficult for me to ignore that aspect of the character in most of our current iterations of him.

The God obviously gets a pass...

As does his refusal to hunt down lower-level criminals,
but only go for those people really responsible

As does refusal to use guns



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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>As does his refusal to hunt down lower-level criminals,
>but only go for those people really responsible

Wat

>As does refusal to use guns

WAT

and I know I'm not really supporting my statements, but whatevs

personally I think the righteous anger at a "world gone mad" is one of the central themes of the contemporary Batman that a lot of people connect with. it's also my least favorite aspect of the character, and I've personally tied it into Frank Miller.

fin

americans.

will that make it difficult for you to watch The Wizard of Oz / Oz: The Great and Powerful?

this isn't an example of "I dislike the fiction because I dislike the creator," this is an example of "I dislike the creator's politics which I see reflected in his creation, which in turn sours me on the creation."

try harder.

and as previously mentioned Miller's political views didn't careen overboard to the right until over a decade after writing the source material.

do better.

.

But it that case, right "leaning" is an understatement.

i'm out.
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@etfp

Diablo said people shouldn't read that into the story. She just wanted to tell the tale of a girl who decided to keep a baby

i'm out.
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@etfp

Might makes motherfucking right.

but yeah -- considering the friend I had who was a HUGE fan of that film and his general taste / political sophistication, I think it's completely fair to say that the parody aspect was largely lost.

Verhoeven's Robocop should also not be taken as a literal call for extreme right-wing politics

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of 80s laissez fair capitalism and cop centered social paranoia

I think (hope) that Reg was trying to be sarcastic

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We out here trying to function.

>I think (hope) that Reg was trying to sarcastic

The kicker isi ts so over the top guaranteed its got its fans that dont get it. Which is why im mad the remake apparently is gonna tone all that shit down.

:/

Fuckthatshit.

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"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

i mean outside of X-Men, most super Heroes ensure the safety and continued success of the State/Nation.

my left wing nut ass was in glee when Bane's "thugs" were tossing the privileged rich out into the snow and taking all they material shit

>my left wing nut ass was in glee when Bane's "thugs" were
>tossing the privileged rich out into the snow and taking all
>they material shit

Me too. I just didn't understand the reactions of the Gothamites.

"right wing"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0587518/

That said, he co-wrote Apocalypse Now, and that's not exactly a right-wing fantasy

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We out here trying to function.

Because almost none of the movies being mentioned
are right-leaning

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

As discussed earlier, Frank Miller's version of Batman has had a huge influence on every adaptation after that so it's always going to come across a bit conservative, but I think you have to keep in mind that all of this exists within the world of Gotham. Nolan isn't blind of course, but Gotham is so far gone compared to the real U.S. that a 1-to-1 comparison isn't really intended imo.

The films have been interpreted as anti-big government when I think they're more anti-corruption. Batman's taking things into his own hands, but isn't that more because he knows the police force is so corrupt and inefficient that they can't do the dirty work? Or perhaps because the city is so strapped for cash that they don't have the resources? He doesn't simply dismiss the system either, he works with the people he trusts and lets the system pick up where he leaves off. When things are peaceful he lets the gov't take over completely.

Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost? I don't know that the films really answer those questions for Gotham let alone the larger world.

>Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a
>couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go
>along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to
>the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost?
>I don't know that the films really answer those questions for
>Gotham let alone the larger world.

>>Batman's tactics don't go unquestioned either. I think a
>>couple telling moments in TDK are Gordon's reluctance to go
>>along with the Harvey Dent story and Lucius Fox's reaction to
>>the tracking device. Batman's tactics work, but at what cost?
>>I don't know that the films really answer those questions for
>>Gotham let alone the larger world.

To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping" element. Fox had beef with it, but ultimately he jumped on board and they used it anyway, and it was crucial - necessary, even - in making sure Batman found and defeated The Joker.

Also, there was that scene in TDKR where Catwoman and her friend were in some house that had been taken from the rich and the friend was happy about it but Selena was clearly not - she said something like, "this used to be someone elses..." or something. It was kind of her turning point when she "went good." Considering the bad guys sort of echo the right-wing perception of the OWS movement and socialism I thought Selena's refutation and eventual swing towards being a hero was a pretty blatant Fox News moment.

>
>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping"
>element. Fox had beef with it, but ultimately he jumped on
>board and they used it anyway, and it was crucial - necessary,
>even - in making sure Batman found and defeated The Joker.

as I said, it works, but at what cost? it leaves you with that question as fox leaves the room, effectively resigning. essentially saying "we got 'em this time, but what does this mean for the future?" along the same lines: the fake harvey dent story is created to maintain peace and order. gordon goes along with it reluctantly, but it's ultimately part of the unraveling of gotham. again, it begs the question of whether it was worth it?

I think the commentary is mostly people connecting the wrong dots. Batman is fighting agents of anarchy who are being misconstrued as agents of liberalism. And do people (not here, I mean in general) think this movie was written AFTER the occupy movement started?

>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal wiretapping"
>element.

Absolutely not. Fox voices the moral objection to it that raises the issue of how far over the line is too far for Batman to go. Fox finally relents but tells Bruce that if it's still there afterwards he'll resign. Bruce built the self-destruct into it so that it can't be used again. If it unconditionally endorsed it they would have just used it without raising any issue over its use and wouldn't have made a point of destroying it after so it couldn't be used again.


>Also, there was that scene in TDKR where Catwoman and her
>friend were in some house that had been taken from the rich
>and the friend was happy about it but Selena was clearly not -
>she said something like, "this used to be someone elses..." or
>something. It was kind of her turning point when she "went
>good." Considering the bad guys sort of echo the right-wing
>perception of the OWS movement and socialism I thought
>Selena's refutation and eventual swing towards being a hero
>was a pretty blatant Fox News moment.

so because she had reservations about running people out of their homes and taking every last thing they own makes it right-wing? Wow.
and that wasn't her turning point; she said she takes from those who have far more than they'd ever need, not that she totally cleans them out and destroys their lives leaving them out on the street with nothing.

TDKR also shows rich people and politicians as morally bankrupt (dude with wifey in Ibiza & sleazy congressman hitting on Selena, Bruce saying these high-society fundraisers are thrown by old hags just to indulge their vanity) - not exactly Fox News fodder (well unless they're liberals that is)

>>To me, TDK unconditionally endorsed the "illegal
>wiretapping"
>>element.
>
>Absolutely not. Fox voices the moral objection to it that
>raises the issue of how far over the line is too far for
>Batman to go. Fox finally relents but tells Bruce that if it's
>still there afterwards he'll resign. Bruce built the
>self-destruct into it so that it can't be used again. If it
>unconditionally endorsed it they would have just used it
>without raising any issue over its use and wouldn't have made
>a point of destroying it after so it couldn't be used again.

Yeah, but like you said, all he did was "voice" his moral objection. Then he used it anyway. And they key is, they NEED it to beat Joker. At the end of the day, them needing it, using it, and winning with it, seems to me to suggest it's OK to use that kind of technology when extreme situations arise and ensuring safety is more important than invading some people's privacy. Sort of reminiscent of the Patriot Act.

And a lot of people in real life take approach too, so it's not that far fetched. I know a lot of people who supported the Patriot Act and the idea of secret wire-tapping if they thought it would help keep them safe.

The change in heart of catwoman is certainly a turn from the left to the right. Private property and ownership is a cornerstone of right-wing idealogy. She starts the movie believing that stealing from the rich is justifiable....a leftist perspective. She changes her mind.

There's also all the allusions to the common critique of leftist revolutions wherein people are tried and prosecuted without due process....like in Cuba's revolution.

There's no doubt in my mind that there's a right-wing perspective in the movie.

>The change in heart of catwoman is certainly a turn from the
>left to the right. Private property and ownership is a
>cornerstone of right-wing idealogy. She starts the movie
>believing that stealing from the rich is justifiable....a
>leftist perspective. She changes her mind.

she doesn't change her mind that stealing from the rich is justifiable - she justifies stealing from the rich by saying they have more than they could possibly ever need, not that they should be stripped of every last possession and thrown out into the street. she's a jewel thief, not a radical left-wing revolutionary.


>There's also all the allusions to the common critique of
>leftist revolutions wherein people are tried and prosecuted
>without due process....like in Cuba's revolution.

as opposed to right wing revolutions like in Pinochet's Chile?


you guys are reading too much into it.

the revolution in THE MOVIE is very clearly characteristic of a left-wing revolution. All the wealthy capitalists in a kangeroo court.

And the dialogue clearly shows that Catwoman was questioning her prior views....it went something like this:

'But this house used to belong to someone'

(Her Friend): 'But isn't this what you always wanted?'

(Catwoman stares off into distance)

I think alot of people are having problems because they enjoyed the movie....and they can't reconcile that with suggestion that it's message runs counter to their personal views. I don't have a horse in either race. I didn't really like the movie and I'm not a leftist.

There's simply too much allusions to the right to ignore....the patriot act thing, the value of property rights and ownership, tougher crime laws and jail sentencing instilled by Harvey Dent, the madness of the proletariat mob, the pro-police stance, the altruistic billionaire who saves the city, the failure of an environmentally friendly energy source, the inability for social institutions to solve social problems, etc.

I've never actually watched any of them but from what I've heard and the few scenes I've seen I think it's a safe bet to say so.

contributions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Harry#Development

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white man enacts righteous anger against minorities, old people, young people, whomever. that was one of those movies that REALLY changed when I watched it again later in life...

One of the most despicable films I've ever seen. And I was the only person I knew who felt that way in REAL TIME.

It's like every lame/bullshit fantasy people have when presented with mild/petty irritations people say "He was so rude not holding the elevator for me - I wanted to shoot him in the head" actually came true.

Loved the skinhead character though - so outlandishly over the top he was enjoyable.

I think the next film this despicable was Crash (the Matt Dillon character was fun there.)

.

But I enjoyed all the movies listed, right leaning or not, and NEVER noticed it (tho I don't look for it either)

It looks like a kind of Thomist aesthetic run through a fairly conventional story of the fall as a stubborn bit of self-assertion. I don't like that "right" is the tag for these things, but it is what it is.

I will say that boring lefties like me probably enjoy the way in which the pro-family narrative is cracked and put back together. That was fun.

care to go deeper or clarify

There's a lot of interesting stuff that occurs there, all kind of hung on a kind of charmingly over-stated transition between the 70s and the 80s, but the thing that always gets me is the rival producer bringing his kind of scuzzy, absurdly young looking actors to the party and pitching Jack on the virtues of videotape. The new actors offer a refigured view of sex-on-film which is tagged as something more realistic but which is actually (as we'll see when those actors start showing up in Jack's movies) something more abusive and contrary to what Jack understands as beauty. Similarly, videotape offers a solution to the industry's financial problems, but at the expense of beauty.

You've kind of got to apply a thick layer of irony over this whole thing. It's still porn. In spite of Dirk's "it's not cool and it's certainly not sexy" speech when he develops the Brock Landers character, it's not like they're constructing that statue of St. Theresa or something.

Anyhow, Aquinas' aesthetic has three characteristics of beauty: integrity, consonance, and clarity/radiance. This movie... isn't the place to really explore these ideas in great depth, but I like the idea that the current underneath the whole movie is a conversation about what beauty is, what it isn't, and the stakes for human believers in this discussion. The view of sex that Horner, etc. is trying to get on film is something idealized (at least to them) and beautiful, a weirdly cracked "holy sadness" that prompts the ascent of the soul. Not well, since it's still porn. But that's why it's funny.

Anyhow, all this is overlayed with Dirk's fall. It's a pretty modest reading. He's a wondrous performer and a gracious person, until he makes a willful self-assertion from the Horner "family" - prompted by a small mountain of cocaine. I don't think there's something necessarily "right" about pretty straightforward Christian themes like these, but for the sake of getting to talk about a movie I like it seems worth it to give in to conventional wisdom that Christian thought is the same as conservative thought.

If this really were a "conservative" narrative, wouldn't Dirk, in order to become whole again, actually return not to the Horner family in the end, but to his original one?

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He just needs to repent. To cry like Ignatius of Loyola - whose feast day is today, incidentally. Anderson seems to have a lot of fun cracking idea of a traditional family without sacrificing its important. I don't disagree with you, though, as there's a taking-a-villageness to Dirk's time as viator that would make Hillary Clinton smile. But since the question said "right leaning" I figured I'd chirp up about the fairly traditional Christian themes in the movie about beauty and sin/grace.

It's not perfect, but metaphors that fit perfectly are kind of boring.

more concerned with human nature and social pathology

its like a very right wing...setting but its more of just a backdrop, so politics doesnt really play a role

It's very clearly a critique of the 80's wall street/yuppie culture which is associated with the right. It's a left-leaning movie.

>It's very clearly a critique of the 80's wall street/yuppie
>culture which is associated with the right. It's a
>left-leaning movie.

more of a social critique than a political one, but the social group they're criticizing tend to be right wingers.

Bret Easton Ellis is no lefty, but you're definitely not off base about what he's critiquing

**********DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED***********



>I suspect Nolan is a republican,
I doubt that.


The Batman Breakdown

Joker represents anarchy, order out of chaos philosophy. I like the Joker cause the nigga told the truth about the sad state of human affairs.
Batman/ Bruce Wayne represents oligarchy/military industrial complex. Like all superheroes he is hegelian in nature.
Harvey 2 face is hegelian/duality. He promotes the illusion of justice in the corrupt system.
Ra's Al Ghul represents the priesthood/mystery school. He has taken ancient wisdom teaching and corrupted them. On wikipedia they compare him to Osama Bin Laden and the comparison is valid, imo.

I don't see any of this as right wing. There is stuff in all of Nolan's films about different aspects of consciousness. IMO his movies are a bit too complex to label right wing.

Cinderella Man (2005) spoiler
Crowe's character was out of work during the Depression so he was getting a relief check. When he got employment he returned his welfare check back to the government,lol. That is clearly some republican shit right there.lol

I don't object to this because a real man should be able to handle his business and set his own wage. However, if hard times come along and you need some assistance from the food stamp president fine,lol, don't starve go and get that EBT card,lol.



Cinderella Man kinda reminded me of Rocky. Rocky has a similar theme about a man trying to lift his family out of poverty via becoming a boxer and acheiving the American Dream. IMO that is clearly a republican message.lol. I am no republican but i do love Rocky, lol, love that film.

Jenny's problems stem from her abusive father, who definitely wasn't a leftist. and while i wouldn't say Forrest is a leftist, he definitely isn't right leaning. Lieutenant Dan had his leftist views too, and he won in the end...big time. I'd say Gump is right in the middle. Some right leaning, some left leaning.

but the result does appear that way, and it's not hard to see why people on both sides of the political spectrum see it as a right leaning film.

>Jenny's problems stem from her abusive father, who definitely
>wasn't a leftist.

her dad probably wasn't a lefty, but that's kind of irrelevant. we really didn't know anything about her father except he was abusive. her response to a bad childhood was to live a life of sex, drugs, and free love, associating with hippies (her anti-war boyfriend was ironically abusive). The Black Panther's were pretty cartoonish in their portrayal. she wasn't happy until she put all that behind her and got married to Forrest, but by then she paid the price for her ways by contracting AIDS.

and while i wouldn't say Forrest is a
>leftist, he definitely isn't right leaning. Lieutenant Dan had
>his leftist views too, and he won in the end...

Lietuenant Dan was a self-destructive blasphemous drunk who didn't win until he finally "made his peace with God"

i don't think it's as much about Forrest's political leanings, but more that he represents a narrative that life is really simple and wonderful if you just do the right thing, no matter what the obstacle. serve your country, start a business and get rich, get married, believe in god, don't do drugs, or sleep around. Dan and Jenny found all that out the hard way, and learned from the magical simpleton.

the only thing remotely left wing was the gag that someone with such a low IQ fit right in the army

i just don't feel it was right leaning, but i'm willing to admit maybe i'm wrong

And the right make him fit their narrative.

Love to see Bubba Gump's BP Oil Spill happy ending.