https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izS67QTVAjk

a certain person who shall remain nameless (sowhat) seems to think this is a substandard song.

i submit its the greatest pop record in MJs oeurve & therefore one of the great pop songs of all time.

what sayeth thou


does it really matter?

vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

>i submit its the greatest pop record in MJs oeurve & therefore
>one of the great pop songs of all time.

#1 - "Billie Jean" (and it has a case for not just one of, but GOAT pop song)

I will gladly go with "Thriller" as a #2. "Substandard" isn't the take I'd go with it. But it's top 3 pop in the MJ catalog, and one of the greatest pop songs of all time. it was a phenomenon jumped off with a song by all measures... shouldn't have been.

if not for the "Michael Jackson" element I don't think the song would have been a single, but one of those "cool songs" on a Quincy Jones-produced album. Mike's input took it over the top IMO. and thus it can never be "substandard"

it's certainly the point with which Michael ran for the rest of his career.

I was scared of the video so whenever my dad played the record in the house I could visualize everything that was happening in the video. I would hide under my bed or behind the couch. Frightening experience for a four year old at the time. With that said, Thriller is probably my fifth favorite song from the album behind Human Nature, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin, Billie Jean and PYT.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

one of my least-favorite MJ songs of all time.

well, no it's not. MJ made many worse songs than that one.

still, it's novelty fluff. if not for the video (ugh...that's another post) it'd be 'Monster Mash 1983'...b/c that's what it is.

fuck you.

Classic duet, fight over the lover type song.
The corniness works because of the juvenile nature of the subject matter.
Baby Be Mine is just corny for no reason, lol.
I know this is OKP where unsung shit is elevated solely because it's unsung,
but Baby Be Mine is the end piece of the loaf.
I'm ok with Thriller being the other end.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

BBM wins because it's "blacker."
but BBM, the girl is mine, and thriller is the
trifecta of songs that make it obvious that as albums, OTW > thriller.

it's difficult for MJ to make a song i won't at least somewhat dig,
but he did make songs i don't listen to often.
and since three of those songs make up 75 percent of side one of thriller...

OTW is better in a blowout.




>Classic duet, fight over the lover type song.
>The corniness works because of the juvenile nature of the
>subject matter.
>Baby Be Mine is just corny for no reason, lol.
>I know this is OKP where unsung shit is elevated solely
>because it's unsung,
>but Baby Be Mine is the end piece of the loaf.
>I'm ok with Thriller being the other end.

fuck you.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

but as i said, i rarely listen to them.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

does it really matter?

vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

The video is what propels the song.

https://digife.com

let alone the greatest of MJ's career

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

I didn't realize until I was older and into credits that my favorite songs were
the ones Mike wrote, himself... excepting Human Nature and PYT.
The Lady In My Life became a favorite when I came of age, but for the most part,
Temperton wrote run-of-the-mill hits. That's not to say they weren't good,
but they weren't tailor made for Michael... anyone could have sang those songs.
Luther could make Lady In My Life work. Hell I think he could have sung the
shit outta Thriller. He would sound stupid singing Wanna Be Startin' Something tho.
Beat It or Billie Jean? Forget it. Those are Michael Jackson songs, and those are
the ones I really fucked it.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

is in a weird void...As a pure song it is a bit corny, gimmicky and cliche and lags behind "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Staring Something," "PYT," and "Lady of My Life"...

But when u talk about "Thriller" IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to not discuss that song without bringing up the "Thriller" video....A video so groundbreaking, so influential, and a true landmark moment in pop culture that it elevates "Thriller" into MJ's top 10 songs of all time...

By itself, "Thriller" is not on the level of MJ's best material on that album....But people don't bring up "Thriller" without talking about the video....And considering that MJ remains the greatest music video artist of all time, "Thriller," being his greatest VIDEO work, elevates the song...

Like I said...it's not an easy answer...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

and not close to being one of his best singles. love the video though.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

i rarely played it as a kid.
side 2 is where it was at.

every SONG that made thriller what it was was on side 2.


of course, the video was crazy.
the song is whatever.

although i have grown to appreciate the song
because it had a NASTY rhythm guitar part.
but i didn't notice that until i became a music snob.

>i rarely played it as a kid.

I'd play "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin" then flip the tape over and rewind to the
beginning of side B.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>i rarely played it as a kid.
>side 2 is where it was at.
>
>every SONG that made thriller what it was was on side 2.
>
>
>of course, the video was crazy.
>the song is whatever.
>
and this is why OtW is the better album

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

side 2 is where it's at.

fuck you.

>i submit its the greatest pop record in MJs oeurve & therefore
>one of the great pop songs of all time.

"billie jean" is the greatest pop record in MJs catalouge,
and therefore the best pop song ever recorded.


btw, "thriller" is not even MJ's best video.
it probably the most iconic, but MJ at his peak in terms of visuals
is "smooth criminal," which... like "thriller," has a video that trumps the song*.


* the album mix of smooth criminal is whatever.
the mix they use in moonwalker is better, and closer to a perfect song.
and the 12" dance mix, which uses the video mix of the song, is
in fact quite nasty.

>what sayeth thou
>
>
>does it really matter?
>
>vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

i agree w/all of that.

fuck you.

I'm going deep on this one I got some purp and the whole office is closing early so I can go in

You've been warned


does it really matter?

vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

ok thriller is goat precisely BECAUSE mike took the weirdest most off the wall song on the record and made it so accesible. no artist could EVER do that but michael jackson. anyone else who tried would be in weird al territory, its ridiculous. but in the hands of mike...it becomes not just a song not just a pop culture icon but like a statement of purpose

we are agreed the whole theme of the song is abt Mike, right? his id? run amok?

ok, cool. if so.

but yeah. its easy to make a good r&b pop song abt love. *yawn*

do it with while singing abt a thing with 40 eyes. with vincent price doing an extrended spoken word piece right in the middle of it. thats insane.

goat record. goat artist.

>we are agreed the whole theme of the song is abt Mike, right?
>his id? run amok?

go ahead and make your case. here are the lyrics. good luck:

"Thriller"


It's close to midnight and something evil's lurking in the dark
Under the moonlight you see a sight that almost stops your heart
You try to scream but terror takes the sound before you make it
You start to freeze as horror looks you right between the eyes,
You're paralyzed


'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike
You know it's thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight


You hear the door slam and realize there's nowhere left to run
You feel the cold hand and wonder if you'll ever see the sun
You close your eyes and hope that this is just imagination, girl
But all the while you hear the creature creepin' up behind
You're out of time


'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
There ain't no second chance against the thing with forty eyes, girl
Thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside of killer, thriller tonight


Night creatures call and the dead start to walk in their masquerade
There's no escapin' the jaws of the alien this time
(they're open wide)
This is the end of your life


They're out to get you, there's demons closing in on every side
They will possess you unless you change the number on your dial
Now is the time for you and I to cuddle close together, yeah.
All through the night I'll save you from the terror on the screen,
I'll make you see


That this is thriller, thriller night
'Cause I can thrill you more than any ghoul would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, diller, chiller, thriller here tonight


'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
Girl I can thrill you more than any ghoul would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, thriller

I'm gonna thrill you tonight


Darkness falls across the land
The midnight hour is close at hand
Creatures crawl in search of blood
To terrorize your neighbourhood
And whosoever shall be found
Without the soul for getting down
Must stand and face the hounds of hell
And rot inside a corpse's shell
The foulest stench is in the air
The funk of forty thousand years
And grisly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom
And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of the thriller

fuck you.

People out to get em, thing with forty eyes, etc

I mean read the lyrics dude, it's the terrified rantings of a child surrounded by monsters.

Hello, mcfly this is basics now


does it really matter?

vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

there is a streak of paranoia in MJ's lyrics starting right after "off the wall."

heartbreak hotel
billie jean
beat it
wanna be startin something
eaten alive
speed daemon
even "black or white" is about paranoia with a racist industry if you break it down.

TRANSLATED LYRICS:

"i took a brook shields on a Saturday Bang.
is she your kind? yes we're one and the same...
now i believe in miracles, and a miracle has happens to tonight,
but people talking shit about me, they hate cause I'm not white."

"they talking shit about me in the Saturday Sun
I told those racist i ain't second to none.
And i told them about equality, and the truth is that you're
wrong or your right...
but all these racists hate me and they hate cause I'm not white.

i am tired of this (white) devil
i am tired of this shit.
i am tired of this (racist music) business (that I've been in all my life)
so when the going gets rough.

i ain't scared of your brother.
i ain't scared of no sheets.
i ain't scared of nobody!

*morphs into a black panther*


anyway, by the time he got to "blood on the dancefloor,"
his psyche had pretty much turned against itself
tracing his catalouge from "ABC" to "morphene"
looks like something of a tragedy.


but i wouldn't make that point using those lyrics
in isolation.

taken by themselves, those lyrics are about
watching a scary movie and getting close to a girl.


it's only when you look at them along side lyrics like
"I don't want to get eaten alive"
and "they're out to get you better leave while you can"
and "it's too high to get over, too low to get under, you're stuck in the middle
and the pain is thunder" that you can see a theme of
paranoia that MJ was running with after OTW.


>People out to get em, thing with forty eyes, etc
>
>I mean read the lyrics dude, it's the terrified rantings of a
>child surrounded by monsters.
>
>Hello, mcfly this is basics now
>
>
>does it really matter?
>
>vote for bin: http://tinyurl.com/qz8zep5

any attempt i make to read some deeper meaning feels forced.

fuck you.

>any attempt i make to read some deeper meaning feels forced.

i mean...weve had posts compiling your fav rap songs for the half of 2014, when literally NONE of these shits will be remembered by October. thats the point.

the song itself?

just the title track?

it's still one of the weakest songs on the album.
and it's not the SONG that created michael mania.
it was the video.

but really, it wasn't even that video that did it.
it was the motown 25, where he lip synced his greatest record-- billie jean.


i am not saying it's a BAD song.
he's done much worse.

but the song itself, without the video, is pretty forgettable.
so much so that doubt most ppl remember that song has a bridge. (it was
edited out of the video version) and they can't figure out why they can't do the thriller
dance in the club when they play it on Halloween (the video
plays the chorus 3 times, so you can't do the full dance
to the album version of the song).




>ok thriller is goat precisely BECAUSE mike took the weirdest
>most off the wall song on the record and made it so accesible.
>no artist could EVER do that but michael jackson. anyone else
>who tried would be in weird al territory, its ridiculous. but
>in the hands of mike...it becomes not just a song not just a
>pop culture icon but like a statement of purpose
>
>we are agreed the whole theme of the song is abt Mike, right?
>his id? run amok?
>
>ok, cool. if so.
>
>but yeah. its easy to make a good r&b pop song abt love.
>*yawn*
>
>do it with while singing abt a thing with 40 eyes. with
>vincent price doing an extrended spoken word piece right in
>the middle of it. thats insane.
>
>goat record. goat artist.
>
>

You know how iconic songs get taken out of their original context and you start hearing it for what it is instead of what is was. Or something like that.

I mean....the instrumental passage of Thriller is basically a sex soundtrack. That's how I hear it without the 'iconic' kinda cultural meaning attached to the video and his tour. If you strip all that stuff away....it's basically an eff track. Dirty and disgraceful. There's nothing 'family' about the vibe of the song.

i was born in 82.
i don't remember the first time i heard thriller,
i was too young and Michael was just always there.

I don't have conscious memories of anticipating new NJ stuff until "Bad" came out.
but i DO remember only liking side 2 of thriller.
and really, i used to start the needle at billie jean.

so it can't be a chance of "thriller," the song, being over exposed.
i never loved it.



in fact, now that i think about it, i probably didn't even SEE the
thriller video until 86.

i know that because the VHS tape i used to play it on
was recorded by my mom, on the same tape that she recorded the end of
"motown returns to the Apollo," which aired in 85.

and my mom had this quirk where she wouldn't let me play back stuff she recorded on tv until the VHS was out of tape. and i remember her telling me she
recorded MJ videos last night on Friday night videos, but we couldn't
watch them yet.

since that stuff was being aired on Friday night videos
to promote the Bad album, that means i hadn't even SEEN the video for thriller--
at least at a time when i could remember it-- until i was 5 or 6.
and even then, i didn't know it was a mini movie because the tape only started
when he was coming our the theatre.
I didn't see the wherewolf part until i rented "the making of thriller."


sooo... "thriller," the song wasnt over exposed to me.
i just never liked it that much.

i already loved the thriller album before i saw the video,
and what i loved was on side 2, not side 1.




>You know how iconic songs get taken out of their original
>context and you start hearing it for what it is instead of
>what is was. Or something like that.
>
>I mean....the instrumental passage of Thriller is basically a
>sex soundtrack. That's how I hear it without the 'iconic'
>kinda cultural meaning attached to the video and his tour. If
>you strip all that stuff away....it's basically an eff track.
>Dirty and disgraceful. There's nothing 'family' about the
>vibe of the song.

aint nobody tryna get down to Thriller..and its hard to sing

"Beat It" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin" are hard to sing for most folks too.
That don't really mean a hill of beans.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>"Beat It" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin" are hard to sing
>for most folks too.
>That don't really mean a hill of beans.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

Yes, Beat It is also hard to sing but Wanna is truly that hard..plus its got the chant and the register its sung in is also mich easier than Thriller in many sections

If ya cant feed the baby
then dont have the baby
etc

plus the cadence of Wanna is easier

Beat It is a simple different genre ..i.e. basic meat n poatoes rock but it also has the portions But you wanna be bad... section(s)

and there are parts of Thriller that are easy enough to sing with some fervor:

Cause nothins gonna save u form the beastwith 40 eyes gurlll" etc and even Vince baby's "the funk of 49 thousand years" etc

but its such a dirge to get through the song because its like a long ride thats not as rnb pleasant as Off The Wall is.

So while yes, saying its hard to sing, isnt the only reason its graded less, its one of four reasons that I posted. Mixed with all four is the reason for the low grade

We good now?

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

No offense to rdhull but this is a very strange argument to me; like, I'm not actually walking around singing Cecil Taylor-solos or Slayer-riffs. However, I can hear them in my head and know what they sound like and it's dope which is what matters.

Overall, I'd (controversially?) argue that part of the replay value of music is that you can *not* sing it, like how can you do James Brown justice by singing his prime material? No, you need to *listen* to (alternatively think about) that shit for it to make sense... What separates a good catchy pop-song from a bad one to me is that the latter has nothing to deliver but a catchy melody that you can easily recreate in your head and just hum/whistle/whatever and still do it justice. The good one however has more to offer:it could be unique vocal-inflections, a cool arrangement, a killer groove or just a *sound* that gives it an edge etc.

Regarding Thriller, I don't really understand the hate because the bassline is cool, the "horror"/novelty-thing works for me due to my metal-roots so I don't find it "cheesy" at all but instead more inspired than a love-song and I like that Vincent Price is on the song even if that concept was ripped-off from Alice Cooper who had him doing a recitation on a song on the successful "Welcome to my nightmare"-album (and no, I don't put it "below" MJ to be inspired by Alice; MJ was into the theatrical and visual and VERY few artists had pushed that aspect as far as Alice did then).

Still, callign it one of the best-or even best-MJ songs sounds like quite a stretch to me; as others have pointed out, there are several stronger songs on the very same album; even a relative "non-hit" like PYT sounds better to me...

>No offense to rdhull but this is a very strange argument to
>me; like, I'm not actually walking around singing Cecil
>Taylor-solos or Slayer-riffs. However, I can hear them in my
>head and know what they sound like and it's dope which is what
>matters.
>
>Overall, I'd (controversially?) argue that part of the replay
>value of music is that you can *not* sing it, like how can you
>do James Brown justice by singing his prime material? No, you
>need to *listen* to (alternatively think about) that shit for
>it to make sense... What separates a good catchy pop-song from
>a bad one to me is that the latter has nothing to deliver but
>a catchy melody that you can easily recreate in your head and
>just hum/whistle/whatever and still do it justice. The good
>one however has more to offer:it could be unique
>vocal-inflections, a cool arrangement, a killer groove or just
>a *sound* that gives it an edge etc.



Hmm. While I love a pop song that offers more than a catchy melody,
I don't necessarily think it has to offer more than that to be great.
Harry Nilson's "Coconut" comes to mind... or Talking Heads' "Once In A Lifetime"
as well... though both have great instrumentals and Byrne's frantic sounding
voice make OIAL an interesting listen, so maybe I'm agreeing with you.
You can definitely sing along with both of them easily though. In some
cases, I think that's actually what makes a pop song great.


>Regarding Thriller, I don't really understand the hate because
>the bassline is cool, the "horror"/novelty-thing works for me
>due to my metal-roots so I don't find it "cheesy" at all but
>instead more inspired than a love-song and I like that Vincent
>Price is on the song even if that concept was ripped-off from
>Alice Cooper who had him doing a recitation on a song on the
>successful "Welcome to my nightmare"-album (and no, I don't
>put it "below" MJ to be inspired by Alice; MJ was into the
>theatrical and visual and VERY few artists had pushed that
>aspect as far as Alice did then).


Nice observation.


>Still, callign it one of the best-or even best-MJ songs sounds
>like quite a stretch to me; as others have pointed out, there
>are several stronger songs on the very same album; even a
>relative "non-hit" like PYT sounds better to me...


Agreed. Thriller is just grandiose. It's as close as Mike could get to "trying
too hard" back then lol.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>
>
>Hmm. While I love a pop song that offers more than a catchy
>melody,
>I don't necessarily think it has to offer more than that to be
>great.
>Harry Nilson's "Coconut" comes to mind... or Talking Heads'
>"Once In A Lifetime"
>as well... though both have great instrumentals and Byrne's
>frantic sounding
>voice make OIAL an interesting listen, so maybe I'm agreeing
>with you.
>You can definitely sing along with both of them easily though.
> In some
>cases, I think that's actually what makes a pop song great.


Of course, a great melody won't work *against* a pop-song, it's obviously a plus. Just saying that there should be more than that and *all* the songs you mentioned have that. I mean, "coconut" doesn't even have much of a great melody IMO, it's almost all in the delivery to me. Anyway, my point was that even if you can't necessarily sing a song, it can still be dope, it's not much of a point to me...

>

but we are on the same page.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

That's what Rod Temperton was trying to emulate when he came up with Thriller


http://boundless-expression.tumblr.com/

http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/

BJ is the successor to Heartbreak Hotel in lyrics, mood, and production. In fact its BJ is Heartbreak Hotel pt II imo.

and Rod said that knowing full well that Thriller was Boogie Nights part 3? (with Off The Wall being part II)?


>That's what Rod Temperton was trying to emulate when he came
>up with Thriller
>
>
>http://boundless-expression.tumblr.com/
>
>http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/

fixed it for you

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>

"getting a pass" and "jamming" ain't the same

Mike brought a quality to songs that few artists could.

I'm not interesting in granting passes.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

It's a good song with a wack ass concept and since the wack ass concept was turned into a good groove, not only does it not matter but it in fact makes it better.

Nah...I'll stick with its a wack ass concept regardless of the musicality. I rather listen to a quality song witha good concept.

It's the same theory people have when they give a hip-hop song a pass for either having a dope beat and wack ass lyrics or dope lyrics with a wack ass beat.

>It's a good song with a wack ass concept and since the wack
>ass concept was turned into a good groove, not only does it
>not matter but it in fact makes it better.


I never said anything about it was wack. I think it's silly and fun.
I also think Mike's voice and delivery elevate it to a place few other artists (if any)
in the history of music could have taken it.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

>I also think Mike's voice and delivery elevate it to a place
>few other artists (if any)
>in the history of music could have taken it.
>

I don't care who sang it and nor am I interested in giving a song I think is a novelty (silly and fun) credit based on "where a singer took it"

I think the shit is a wack ass concept and that *is* where he took it. So why would that be a positive.

Here's the thing with this song...

It IS a novelty and corny as fuck. That is a fact. The difference is, some of us are cool with that and "give it a pass" as "silly and fun" and others don't look for their music to be silly and fun. Eminem's singles are silly and fun and they're wack as shit. And one could say "he took it where no one else could" but for someone who isn't interested in silly and fun in their music, that's not a positive.

We can agree to disagree all day but it's very easy to see the different sides of this one.

>I don't care who sang it and nor am I interested in giving a
>song I think is a novelty (silly and fun) credit based on
>"where a singer took it"


That's cool. Sounds like you're judging the song based on what it is rather
than how it sounds... which is a weird way to judge music, imo, but it's your
right. I like that you mentioned Eminem, as that will allow me expound on
this point momentarily.


>I think the shit is a wack ass concept and that *is* where he
>took it. So why would that be a positive.
>
>Here's the thing with this song...
>
>It IS a novelty and corny as fuck. That is a fact. The
>difference is, some of us are cool with that and "give it a
>pass" as "silly and fun" and others don't look for their music
>to be silly and fun. Eminem's singles are silly and fun and
>they're wack as shit. And one could say "he took it where no
>one else could" but for someone who isn't interested in silly
>and fun in their music, that's not a positive.

1st main difference to point out between Em and Mj is MJ is a dance/pop
artist who makes music for the purpose of dancing, mainly. Em is rapper
who makes music for his lyrical content/wordplay etc. If you lookin' for sick
lyrics from MJ, you already fuckin up, lol. If not, let's get to the meat of this thing...
The reason Em's singles suck is because they just don't SOUND good. I mean,
sure the concepts are silly, but if he managed to even make people wanna
dance to them or nod their heads, they might have some saving grace.

The thing with Thriller is that it's a good dance song. Silly, corny, whatever...
the groove makes you dance to some silly ass shit. The focus ain't so heavy
on the lyrics as it is with an Eminem song. This is music that's about feeling
and rhythm.



>We can agree to disagree all day but it's very easy to see the
>different sides of this one.
>


Fo sho

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

I have stated several times that I am a person that judges a song and album by all aspects.

It is very clear in my reply here that I said I need both, the music and the lyrics to be at a high level.

I am not about saying "the music is not good but the lyrics are so it's a great song"

Not really sure how low everyone's reading comprehension here is but damn

"Lyrics" regardless of how important they are are not music. As someone who cares about music more than anything else, I would never hold lyrics against a piece of dope music (and in Hip-Hop, a rappers flow, delivery and rhythm are part of the music-I find it quite interesting that you mention lyrics and beats rather than rapping and beats; rapping is more than lyrics; lyrics are important but the flow and delivery and rhythm *needs* to be there IMO because I like music and those are *musical* qualities, lyrics are not-I don't know a single rapper I'd give a pass on lyrics alone).

Basically, any problems there might be with "Thriller" should not be defined by its lyrics because it's music we are dealing with...

With all due respect, shut the fuck up

With all due respect, show me how what you wrote is relateable to music at all...

Damn man... You are not bright.

Music is more than just the music. The lyrics are part of the music. If they weren't then we would all listen to Jazz, Classical and Instrumentals.

Anti-musical indeed...

I clearly said I don't care if I don't like the content.

I'll appreciate it and recognize the good parts of the song but as a whole, I'm not trying to listen to no novelty bullshit because it's good musically.

You said that you didn't care about those things and now, those *musical* qualitiest are apparently not even content... *SMH*

I said IN THIS CASE I don't care about those things because the foundation of the song, the lyrical content, does not warrant me to.

I clearly said I JUDGE MUSIC BY EVERY ASPECT. The music, the lyrics, the delivery, etc. If there is something I don't rock with, I'm not giving the others a pass...especially when it's on some novelty shit.

That goes for ALL aspects, not just the music.

If the concept is great and the beat is terrible or the delivery is wack I'm not rocking with it.

If the music is excellent but the lyrics are ass, I'm not rocking with it.

I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time understanding this.

I mean, if you judge the music by all aspects, the look and fashion of the artists matter too, right? And if you say that lyrics are different, think again because modern kids can bring up pics of their idols at any stage...

Either way, I always felt that middle-age Dylan fans were the same as teenage chicks into boybands. Sure, lyrics stand the test of time wheres looks don't but so what? Both are extraneous bullshit that's not related tothe music...

>I mean, if you judge the music by all aspects, the look and
>fashion of the artists matter too, right? And if you say that
>lyrics are different, think again because modern kids can
>bring up pics of their idols at any stage...
>
>Either way, I always felt that middle-age Dylan fans were the
>same as teenage chicks into boybands. Sure, lyrics stand the
>test of time wheres looks don't but so what? Both are
>extraneous bullshit that's not related tothe music...

You're not serious right?

ppl butter their bread in different ways
and different fans fall into different types of hype (nttawwt)

some dylan fans really get off on his esoteric lyrics.
some springstein fans dig his blue collar appeal.

most artists have some image associated with them
that can make ppl dig them for reasons that go beyond the music itself.

I didn't bring up Bob Dylan

I didn't say lyrics were more important than the music

And I certainly didn't say I didn't care about the music.

(even though like Hellberg, I don't believe lyrics are music per se... but at least they are music-adjacent)

but you didn't talk about lyrics... you talked about CONCEPT.

And Hellberg is 300% correct that "concept" has as much to do with actual music as does the singer's haircut.

Yes, your entire stance is anti-musical.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

If your lyrical concept is novelty bullshit from the start then obviously your lyrics are not going to be good.

And no, he is not 300% correct because A) you can't be more than 100% and B) a singer's hair cut is not at all related to the music and the content of the song is DIRECTLY related to the music by having to match the mood, tempo, and movement of the arrangement. Every fucking songwriter on the planet fucking earth either A) listens to the musical arrangement and says "what does this make me feel like" in order to get a concept for the lyrics or B) writes a song with a concept and says "I need the music to evoke this feeling to match the lyrics". Lyrics which are part of the music stem from the concept. But I'm going out on a limb and guessing none of you have written a song in your life and if you have, you probably stopped because you sucked or if you do then you need to stop because you currently suck.

This only further proves my point because the concept of this song is directly related to the mood and feeling of the music. And it all just comes out as one corny novelty. Fright night bullshit. Like I'm going to be riding around playing some holloween nonsense in my car.

But nice try with the haircut bullshit. It was a great analogy.

>And no, he is not 300% correct because A) you can't be more
>than 100%

WOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW

YOU ARE TOTALLY BLOWING MY MIND

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>>And no, he is not 300% correct because A) you can't be more
>>than 100%
>
>WOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW
>
>YOU ARE TOTALLY BLOWING MY MIND

Says a lot about you

"I said IN THIS CASE I don't care about those things because the foundation of the song, the lyrical content, does not warrant me to."

Who the hell would consider the *foundation* of a song like "Thriller" its lyrical content? Yes, I'm saying silly shit and exageratting but that's because I'm trying to make you "get" it and you just don't so whatever...

If you consider the lyrics to a song like "Thriller" its foundation, if you don't think Mike's voice and delivery of said lyrics matter in a piece of music because the concept is "corny" and blah-blah, yes, I consider that anti-musical, bye!!!

First of all...you quoted a post well after my initial post in which your comprehension was already proven suspect as shit.

Secondly, for ME, everyone song gets looked at the same way. They need to check out in all 3 major categories; musically, lyrically and delivery.

The fact you said "who looks at Thriller for lyrics" further proves my point that people are giving it a pass.

I look at lyrics of EVERY song.

In the case of Thriller, Michael got pluses for the musicality and delivery. However, the lyrics to me are novelty bullshit which bring it down further than just having poorly written lyrics.

And my point this whole fucking time is; a so g that hits a home run in those 3 categories, is what I consider a great song.

Notice I didn't say Thriller was a bad song this entire post. Because it's not. 2 out of 3 categories are on point.

It just so happens, I can't stomach wack novelty bullshit like some of you can.

And please don't try to turn this into me sitting down and rating every song by three categories. That would only shine a brighter light on your ignorance, reading comprehension and agenda posting.

I'd go as far as saying that lyrics are practically never the *foundation* of a piece of musi; viewing them as uscj strike me as-again-anti.musical. And I suffer no comprehension-problems; quite the opposite, I comprehend you too well, to such an extent that you don't even see what I see in *your* writing and why are so anti-musical.

Here's another thing you wrote in reference to why we don't just listen to instrumental music:
"Music is more than just the music. The lyrics are part of the music. If they weren't then we would all listen to Jazz, Classical and Instrumentals."

Do you see the problem here or do I need to spell it out for you (clue:voice)?

And I don't give a shit about your criterias for good music, that's never been my issue, my issue is with the complete disregard for music that shines through in your posts in this thread.

And why do you give Mobb Deep props for their concepts? Is it not because of their style and delivery or do you seriously think the concept of killing and robbing people is brilliant?

If you can give Mobb Deep a pass based on the delivery and style of their terribly stereotypical and cliched lyrical concepts, whu can't you give MJ the same pass?

Answer:because you are anti-musical; you consider non-musical things like rhymes and wordplay more relevant than voice and delivery which in this very post was regarded as irrelevant because the concept was corny...

Anti-musical indeed...

>I'd go as far as saying that lyrics are practically never the
>*foundation* of a piece of musi; viewing them as uscj strike
>me as-again-anti.musical. And I suffer no
>comprehension-problems; quite the opposite, I comprehend you
>too well, to such an extent that you don't even see what I see
>in *your* writing and why are so anti-musical.
>

Your obsession with the "anti-musical" phrase is so ridiculous I don't know where to start. So because I said Thriller's corny ass concept keeps me from liking it, I'm anti-music? Type of dumb shit is that? Everyone has a line. Thriller has clearly crossed that line in my case. But since you know me so well, you already knew that. However, that in no way makes me anti-musical. To come to such a conclusion about someone you don't know shit about easily makes you ignorant.

>Here's another thing you wrote in reference to why we don't
>just listen to instrumental music:
>"Music is more than just the music. The lyrics are part of the
>music. If they weren't then we would all listen to Jazz,
>Classical and Instrumentals."
>
>Do you see the problem here or do I need to spell it out for
>you (clue:voice)?
>

Spell it out genius.

>And I don't give a shit about your criterias for good music,
>that's never been my issue, my issue is with the complete
>disregard for music that shines through in your posts in this
>thread.
>

I didn't disregard the music at all. Your inability to not get sensitive when someone doesn't agree with you on Michael Jackson is negatively impacting your intelligence in this post. I have stated several times in this post that the music of the song is on point. Just because I then went to my next criteria and said "but the concept is corny and I'm not rocking to it" doesn't mean I ignored the music. And I could give two fucks if you care about my criteria when your criteria clearly stops at the music and doesn't include lyrics. Why can't I call bullshit on you ignoring the lyrics the same way you're attempting to call bullshit on your confused ass thought that I don't care about music? Maybe because you're not intelligent enough to understand that hypocrisy?

>And why do you give Mobb Deep props for their concepts? Is it
>not because of their style and delivery or do you seriously
>think the concept of killing and robbing people is brilliant?
>
>If you can give Mobb Deep a pass based on the delivery and
>style of their terribly stereotypical and cliched lyrical
>concepts, whu can't you give MJ the same pass?
>

I don't give Mobb Deep a pass. I love The Infamous as it represented an original take on a reality of life but grew tired of them after as they became the cliche and went out of their way to become increasingly ignorant.

>Answer:because you are anti-musical; you consider non-musical
>things like rhymes and wordplay more relevant than voice and
>delivery which in this very post was regarded as irrelevant
>because the concept was corny...
>

Actually that wasn't the answer. You couldn't be further off. But shit, how am I supposed to talk sense to someone on the internet who believes they can tell someone they never met about themself.

>Anti-musical indeed...

Ignorant as fuck...indeed

>Your obsession with the "anti-musical" phrase is so ridiculous
>I don't know where to start. So because I said Thriller's
>corny ass concept keeps me from liking it, I'm anti-music?

Nope, that's not why you are anti-musical...


>>Do you see the problem here or do I need to spell it out for
>>you (clue:voice)?
>>
>
>Spell it out genius.

Figure it out yourself, I'm tired of this; I think it's pretty obvious...

>I didn't disregard the music at all. Your inability to not
>get sensitive when someone doesn't agree with you on Michael
>Jackson is negatively impacting your intelligence in this
>post.

I actually don't have particularly strong feelings regarding MJ and definitely not the song "Thriller"; that you assume this is coming from the perspective of an angry MJ-fan says more about you than anything else...

>of the song is on point. Just because I then went to my next
>criteria and said "but the concept is corny and I'm not
>rocking to it" doesn't mean I ignored the music. And I could
>give two fucks if you care about my criteria when your
>criteria clearly stops at the music and doesn't include
>lyrics.

It does?

Why can't I call bullshit on you ignoring the lyrics
>the same way you're attempting to call bullshit on your
>confused ass thought that I don't care about music? Maybe
>because you're not intelligent enough to understand that
>hypocrisy?

Yeah, I'm so dumb. Everyone else is always dumb, I can do a search on "Anonymous" and come up with dozens of threads with you calling people dumb. It must be difficult to be surrounded by all us idiots, why do you even bother?
>
>>And why do you give Mobb Deep props for their concepts? Is
>it
>>not because of their style and delivery or do you seriously
>>think the concept of killing and robbing people is
>brilliant?
>>
>>If you can give Mobb Deep a pass based on the delivery and
>>style of their terribly stereotypical and cliched lyrical
>>concepts, whu can't you give MJ the same pass?
>>
>
>I don't give Mobb Deep a pass. I love The Infamous as it
>represented an original take on a reality of life but grew
>tired of them after as they became the cliche and went out of
>their way to become increasingly ignorant.

LOL, here we go again; you loved the Infamous because, I quote, "it represented an original take on a reality of life"... Damn, you are SO anti-musical!!!
>
>>Answer:because you are anti-musical; you consider
>non-musical
>>things like rhymes and wordplay more relevant than voice and
>>delivery which in this very post was regarded as irrelevant
>>because the concept was corny...
>>
>
>Actually that wasn't the answer. You couldn't be further off.
> But shit, how am I supposed to talk sense to someone on the
>internet who believes they can tell someone they never met
>about themself.

Noone needs to meet you man, your charming personality shines through in your writing...
>
>>Anti-musical indeed...
>
>Ignorant as fuck...indeed

Is that reply your favorite? Or is it the best? Perhaps the greatest?

I'm so grateful to final know that I'm "anti-music".

I can't figure out what took so long for me to learn that but you have opened my eyes.

Let me know how I can repay you.

I get what you're saying and I agree
it's totally fine to say 'hey the beat is dope but I'm not feeling the chorus' or whatever when looking at a song as a piece of art
I personally go for the total package myself, and while I can appreciate the merits of different aspects of a song individually, I can still walk away from it thinking it was lacking overall
that isn't something beat niggas, lyric lovers or assholes that swallow producer dick will understand

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

To give something a pass, you first have to define it as "wack".
That's HIS issue, because he defines it as wack. People who enjoy it obviously don't define it that way.

But I've had my word with Anon before on here about the elitist attitude.
I just wasn't going there anymore.

You're also taking the elitist road, here, by saying others "just don't understand"
having standards for all aspects of the music. And I'm sure you don't realize (or don't care)
how insulting that is to other music lovers. I could just as easily say that the
two of you "don't understand" that lyrics can facilitate different purposes within
a song... but then we'd be operating from the same place. Ain't nobody got time for them kinda arguments, lol.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

...in the context of what is essentially a dance-pop tune because the lyrics are corny strike me as utterly bizarre.

Like, people are going to put the lyrics to Ohio Players "Funky worm" under some kind of microscope as if it was Dylan or Nas because the "concept" of a funky worm is like totally childish and corny, the stupid people CLEARLY give that classic a pass because the music is funky but that should not be done because it's about the total package man and the funky worm concept is SO stupid...

I mean, come on... it's so fucking backwards to approach *music* like that...

Whatever, I'm tired of this shit...

People got sensitive over one phrase (give it a pass) and spiral out of control on various other side comments.

Why didn't people just address the way I phrased my comment instead of telling me I was elitist and anti-musical (which still makes no fucking sense by the way).

Because the hypocritical shit is that people get to call me elitist because of the way I'm judging my music while at the same time telling me I'm wrong for having my opinion and calling me anti-musical. How is that not elitist? Lol

The thing about people on this site is that they get so caught up in their own agenda that they fail to realiz they're being hypocritical.

My entire point from the start was that the song was a corny novelty and I don't listen to it other than when it's played in a social setting.

That's all I said about the song. My second comment about people giving it a pass had nothing to do with the actual song. But that's the point y'all got sensitive about and tried damn hard to call me out on some bullshit.

And I even said that it's cool if people love the shit.

It's simple; the song is a novelty and some people can get with it and some people can't.

That's really all there is too it.

>People got sensitive over one phrase (give it a pass) and
>spiral out of control on various other side comments.
>
>Why didn't people just address the way I phrased my comment
>instead of telling me I was elitist and anti-musical (which
>still makes no fucking sense by the way).
>


i didn't because i figured you were doing the "michael jackson fans are crazy,
and they will defend ANYTHING he does" thing.

and i didn't feel like going down that road.


but when i read what you wrote, i DID think you were
trying to troll ppl that liked the song "thriller."

(btw, i do like it quite a bit nowadays, although i didn't like it as a kid.
great vocal performance, nasty rhythm guitar, and lyrics that can make me
see the protaganist making a move during a scary movie with the object of his affection.

not a move as in going in for the kill,
but just sharing a moment when he holds her close and laughs during a
part of the movie that's startling.)



if that's not what you were saying, i get it.
but the way you phrased it could have been viewed as either needlessly trollish
or "anti-musical."

You can't say "anybody who likes this is stupid"
and then say "that's just the phrasing I use to say I don't like it"
You didn't say people were stupid, but you did say they were giving it a pass.


Your initial comment is about how others react to the song.. not yourself.

If it's about how YOU feel, why are you defining how OTHERS are interpreting it?
It "gets a pass" from who? The people who like it, of course.
Therefore, the people who like it, rightfully, saw that as a diss to their standards.
This isn't rocket science, fam.

Again your initial comment is about how others react to the song.. not yourself

If it was only about how YOU choose the judge your music, your phrasing would
back that up (i.e. "I don't like the lyrics". "The lyrics are too corny for me".
"I can't give the corny lyrics a pass". or even "The lyrics are wack".)
However, you say "it gets a pass" as if people don't realize you're talking about them, lol.
Frankly, it's kinda cowardly that you're cowering from the direct diss to others'
musical standards that that is. So when I say you're being elitist, that's not
a name I'm calling you. That's literally what that is.

Once more, your initial comment is about how OTHERS react to the song.
That's not just stating how YOU judge your music. You're speaking on how
millions of other people are... which is actually not for you to say.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

and Got the Hots.

this is one of the songs I rarely play from MJ I Human Nature, baby be mine, pyt, beat it, wanna be starting something all better to me