I am another old head who wants to make the argument that this time is different with regards to hip-hop. I grew up on Lil' Kim and Foxy but can we unanimously agree that this is a new low in ratchetdeness? Like can we all agree without getting into a discussion about respecability politics, feminism, old people not appreciating the youth, etc? Check it out...

https://twitter.com/OliLondonTV/status/1683198804101611520


And I don't even want this to be gender warz and pick on the ladies (again) because I feel like this is a breach because the dudes are no better. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcOx7DZanNw

For context, these ninjas shot an unauthorized video that got FAMU football operations suspended!!


https://www.theroot.com/damn-a-rap-video-got-famu-s-football-team-in-big-troub-1850671032

As terrible as Luthor Campbell was and as much as he repp'd U of M gear, I feel like he had more sense then to do something that would ruin the careers of football players (in fact, he is instrumental in helping the careers of young football players)


Anyway, I would concede that times have moved passed me, except Hip-hop is down objectively.

https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/hip-hop-no-number-one-albums-singles-charts-reasons-why-1235350404/

SO here is my hot take, maybe if hip-hop toned down the ratchedness down just a little bit. It can soar again.

For example, you got a Nelly Beat that was huge, but we know this song is going nowhere because it won't get mainstream play because of the ratchedness of it.

https://twitter.com/shannonsharpeee/status/1684270171253526528

It's only a matter of time before an afrobeat artist makes hits out of Nelly's catalog.

Anyway, old man rant over. Eager to hear who is going to come in here and defend this rubbish.

Poll result (7 votes) Yes it's trash (5 votes) Vote It's Trash but... (1 votes) Vote No, this isn't trash. It has merit. That merit is... (1 votes) Vote

I take issue with the first tweet you shared here. What does Jason Aldean’s pro-lynch song have to do with over sexualized lyrics. These lyrics are vulgar and trash, sure but they are not advocating for killing a group of people. I don’t know that people are “ok” with the lyrics posted but at the end of the day they’re not hurting anyone so we don’t care.

Just meant to share the video.


I would have edited it out if I caught that earlier.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

in two weeks i'm gonna finish a master's thesis on rap lyrics as
1. evidence in courtrooms
2. vehicle of political and religious speech (since the fucking government can't wrap their head around the fictionality and culture of hip-hop, i'm not even going into the obvious artistic protections that music should be afforded.)

Since 1950, only 4 cases have involved non-rap lyrics. Which is fucking crazy because there are 20 years of rap not existing in that time period.

Another study showed that you can show someone lyrics from a violent folk music song and if you tell study participants that they were rap lyrics, they overwhelmingly rated the lyrics author higher in terms of criminality, need to be regulated, and other antisocial factors.

Metal music is perceived poorly as well, but as more damaging to the individual rather than society. (Rapper joins gang and devotes self to crime. Metal singer gets addicted to drugs, for example.)

he sees a woman walking down the road all beat up. He picks her up, ask what happened, tells her to give directions to her mans house and then he goes inside and kills him.

wait in the truck
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SyHAtWH_DcE

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

while the lyrics are terrible it has nothing to do with the reaction to the country music video that promotes lynching.

I could see if these videos were on MTV or BET but I think most are on their own youtube channels.

I do believe that streaming and youtube have changed how rap is produced these days.

but I also feel like emo, pop and r&b have all gone too far with the cursing and shitty content. I hear a dope ass beat and the perfect voice and get hype and then she sings mother fukkkas cant do the shit like I doooooo”

whyyyyyy???? lol.

Some of it sounds so forced.

and the other day I had the radio on the hip hop station and every other word was muted to the point it made no sense to even play the song. 2 minute 30 second song and the prolly muted 1:30 of it.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Since you can’t hold people accountable for shit or criticize them these days people are showing their whole asshole

<--- Big Baller World Order

I was accused of misogyny for saying it was a shitty song and video

the whataboutism was on 100 for that debate.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

<--- Big Baller World Order

I mean, each generation has their things. In this generation though, there's less filters from record labels to tell you what you can and can't release. They let social media decide.

The label heads KNEW that song would work just because the beat slapped and the two featured artists with a raunchy/controversial topic. Then throw in a Kardashian/Jenner on the video and you catch all the white/black ratchet attention from females (new vagina anthem) and all the eyes of the men who hold Cardi and Meg on their top 10 fap motivations.

I always laugh at us washed folx talking like we didn't have:

Put it in your mouth
Just don't bite it
baby got back
Dreams (lil Kim)
Suck it or not
Stapleton Sex
We want some Pu**y
Sweet Black Pu**y
etc.
etc.
etc.

But now all of a sudden, we got kids and it's pearl clutching lol

____________

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

there's still a TON of good hip hop out there.

the actual problem isn't that it doesn't exist, which is what people think (especially older heads), it's that labels/A&R/marketing is dead, as is terrestrial radio for the most part, so you're NEVER gonna hear it anywhere that would allow it be widely known (especially to older heads).

also, a lot of the problem is the ATTITUDE of the old heads. they heard 3 songs that got popular that they hated, assumed all rap "is like that now" and just gave up on hip hop that came out after 2005. w/out listeners, the "good" shit isn't gonna get any shine and a good chunk of rap's fanbase refuses to listen if it's new.

now, that's not to say that even i, who listens to all the new shit, don't wish there was less ratchet/pussy rap/drill em kill em shit...but if it turns me off i just turn it off i don't whine about it...then i find some shit i do like. i also try to remember that for whatever reason, doesn't allow people to age gracefully meaning it's a young man's sport and unfortunately, that's what the kids like.

now, all that being said, i do think hip hop is down (at least the numbers say so) BUT i think that has to do with more complex factors than JUST too much ratchetness.

and we need to embrace this shit.

let them have it.

unless you are a DJ, producer or a parent trying to see what your kids are listening to it kakes no gotdamn sense to try and stay up on these young boys.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I feel like there is a certain type of old head who is afraid to call trash trash for fear of appearing like an old head.

This isn't about is there still good hip-hop being made, I know the answer is yes. My question are these songs trash?


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

cuz when has there ever NOT been trash music?

if everyone agrees with you that it's trash, then what? does the song go away? does it prevent other people from making trash music?

i just don't get the point of your question...or is it just for you to have consensus in your need to feel superior to these young artists today? if you think its trash, then its trash to you. isn't that all that matters?

im glad great music exists, i'm glad mediocre music exists and i'm glad trash music exists...it makes me appreciate and support the stuff i think is great even more...comparisons along a spectrum is valuable.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

the hell I need someone else to verify my taste?

“if iont like it, iont like it” - Common

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

is where I used to hear a lot of trash ass wack ass rap that I would never play.

I just aged out of it.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

but it usually stops at the songs on there. i hear so much garbage that i ignore (i'd say mostly because there's already someone doing that same sound/style much better).

also, FWIW, sometimes i put stuff on that list only because it's big/popular/big artists not because i REALLY like it.

Sorry that's catchy as hell and I fuck with it. Plus if she's a New Orleans artist as I suspect she is, this style of overtly sexual songs is par for the course for bounce music.

Video is over the top, but we passed the mark of making super artistic music videos yearssss ago. This music is not for people our age soooo 🤷🏾‍♀️

Plus I think y'all are really underplaying how sexual things were when we were younger. This video reminded of Snoop's? Dre's? video where they pulled the woman's bikini top down and basically sexual assaulted her on video.

Not saying that a conversation can't be had about this topic, but let's not pretend that Doodoo Brown wasn't one of Luke's biggest hits 🙄.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

IDK this seems like a different level ratchedness but you making points.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I think the landscape has changed, there' more of it and it's more widely accepted. it's not ours to curate anymore. We're not the cool kids.

it's really hard for me to be mad at rachet music after her biggie talk about his friend, Gutter.


Don't they know my nigga gutter fuckin kidnap kids? (uhh)
Fuck em in the ass, throw em over the bridge (oooh)

Not to mention NWA's 'just don't bite it'. iirc, they had another song where shot a lady.

like everyone other generation, whatever's next seems less than. we're doing the same thing.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

Like you listen to them to piss your folks off or listen on the sneak tip.

They played WAP at the Grammys!!!


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but you just reiterated my point about acceptance.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

have a song of the summer like we use to. Because the Hip-Hop Pop song is dead at the moment.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-08-17/wap-cardi-b-megan-thee-stallion-number-one-billboard-hot-100

it was 7x platinum. if that's not acceptance, I don't know what you call it.

the microwave culture may be more to blame for your view of what's a big smash or not. all of it pretty much comes and goes very quickly. sometimes, so quickly that it's hard to realize how big a record actually was. or maybe you've moved on from certain aspects of the culture like a lot of us on this board.

with that said, hip-hop is still a huge genre and some stats show it's still the most popular.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/475667/streamed-music-consumption-genre-usa/

caveats: this is showing hip-hop and r&b together. not a big fan of that, but hard to make distinction at times. also this just the US.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

from a lot of people, seems like white people included, are like "Thank you for not being trashy like those rappers, OMG FINALLY some music with class, so nice to not hear trashy trash from trash rapping trash whore rappers" etc. etc.

I love the song but the need to bash rap in general to appreciate a song seemed very telling

They are making music that can be played everywhere.

What was the last huge Hip-Hop Pop song?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

after about 50 - 60 years of popularity, at most.

It happened to jazz, Rock and R&B and it's going to happen to Hip-Hop too. Even though Hip-Hop turns 50 next month let's say it exploded onto the mainstream for real around 1990. That gives us roughly another 20 years or less before it's abandoned for the Next Big Genre of music, whatever that will be.

and I tapped out on checking for the young shit about 10 years ago unless its JCole or Kendrick.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and it was trash when it was Cardi B, Lil Kim, Megan thee Stallion

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Signature

but I was in HS at the time and that was the first time I ever heard a song like that

but I always thought graphic songs about sex were ridiculous unless it was pure comedy like Slick Ricks Davie Crockett.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

2 live Crew songs and skits

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Signature

lmao we old man give it up.

Legit sat back like “this is where we at now. This is hot. People proud to be seen like this”

<--- Big Baller World Order

and I went to listen to the whole song. she can't rap for shit. she damn near can't even rhyme.

I don't even mind raunchy or distasteful lyrics but at least make it sound good. that's my old man rant.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

cause a few years back I could always count on you to like shit we all thought was trash.. lol

it comes at you fast.

a few years from now you will revisit some songs and be like “gotdamn”

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

some of that shit loses me though. Like anytime NBA Youngboy comes on. that shit gives me a headache lol

<--- Big Baller World Order

in the first place. It’s trash, but it’s nothing new.

They lightweight check the ratchet box but they also sound and look different. They got their own style.

https://www.https://www.youtube.com/@FlyanaBoss/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/@FlyanaBoss/videosyoutube.com/@FlyanaBoss/videos


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

they feel "industry plant-y" to me and i don't know why.

That's where we are though, trained musicians are looked on as suss because so many untalented folks are at the top of the heap right now.

https://www.vulture.com/2023/07/flyana-boss-on-viral-tiktok-song-you-wish.html
**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I get more annoyed that anyone can try their hand at rappin, but can barely do it.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

and this was totally unfamiliar to me.

now, i can't keep up with most regional shit. also, FWIW, most regional shit is JUST that - it stays regional which is to say i don't think the things being mentioned in the OP are as prevalent as people make them out to be.

a few songs go viral here and there and become hits but i don't think it's THAT "serious."

because you said you had some fly house shit

and that was when I realized I aged out of new rap shit because I was like “wtf is this?” most times I heard new shit.

just wasn’t feeling most of the new rap AT ALL.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

like i said, most drill/kill or "pussy rap" i can't get behind too much unless there's some originality to it (or it at least has interesting production which is RARE).

but outside of that, there's new rappers making good music that don't fall into those categories at all.

its one thing to be a shitty lyricist...but black kids dont have rhythm anymore?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

The song that everyone knew, heard everywhere and was an undeniable summer smash?

Old Town Road?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but I think its part of the problem with hip hop.

Maybe its peaked or maybe Drake ruined that shit because half his biggest hits aren’t traditional rap songs?

with Drake and mumble rap its morphed into sing song rap that aint really about spitting, its about melodies and hooks.

aint mad at it but I also cant really remember the last huge “hip hop” record.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That joint was huge and it's not heavy rappity rap.

When Drake wants to be over his tough guy phase he could easily supply another Toosie Slide, God's Plan, Nice For What, etc.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Made her a star - Mariah even did the remix with Latto.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

If Kayne is Yeezus then call me a Yetheist (c) Orko Eloheim

I tried not to make this another a state of hip-hop music post and establish a baseline of what is trash, but I did kinda fall into a state of music post.

But yeah, we all agree this is trash right?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but it’s the listeners of rap that have brought it to this point. Not the artists.

If Kayne is Yeezus then call me a Yetheist (c) Orko Eloheim

they make it real easy to hear this bullshit.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>they make it real easy to hear this bullshit.

Not enough is done to hold dj’s accountable for what they push over the airwaves. The wack shit is always going to be around. The only difference in times past is that the stations also playing the dope stuff. There’s no good music that commercial radio stations plays these days.

If Kayne is Yeezus then call me a Yetheist (c) Orko Eloheim

and played the same shit in all their markets

listeners didn’t have a chance once those big dollars kicked in the door.

this wasn’t the 80’s with 2 turntables and a DJ.

most times its a dude pushing buttons.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Yt folks are always going to green light the worst of us and there’s always a black man/woman that’s willing to be the nigga they want.

https://twitter.com/SamJayComic/status/1692559669716214217


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

it's a fun song for those that dig it. some cartoons, I'm cool with, but not this one.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

They clearly have a sense of humor

Not necessary mine or yours, but the video is way better than many .

And the subject matter is very similar to multiple Kool G. Rap songs - Kool G. is just way more clever and a better rapper.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

a lot of these 'rappers' aren't good at the craft. many of them don't care about any of that.

none of this content is new.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

<--- Big Baller World Order

I mean don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching thicc gals gyrate about and talk dirty, but I think this is aimed at younger women

To me this is pretty much the equivalent of dudes rapping about drug dealing and robbing people (Although she aint exactly ghost face killah or Mobb Deep when it comes to the lyrics game)

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

...already done to the black man with gangsta/thug/drill/etc. rap.

The negativity has done a number on the large number of black men that consume it, and now they are coming for the black women.

Black male-created rap songs about killing, drug dealing, drug use, misogyny, misandry, materialism & sociopathic behavior have been the majority of rap that is pushed by the music industry for decades now.

Personally, I believe the 90s conspiracy that the music industry is attacking the black community by pushing the most negative music and images they can has been proven to be true over the past few decades. Now that the market for sociopathic black male music has apparently been saturated and starting to ebb, they are moving on to doing the same thing to the black women.

There was a moment when it was only gangsta that was getting mainstream airplay and it took Kanye to disrupt it and his influence is still be felt today by his offspring.

Black Women rap needs a black woman disrupter the same way. They out there and on the way.

But until then, I've given in a bit because this joint kinda slaps (after initially hating):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7o0upORtCw


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i already knew about sample libraries, sample packs, etc. cuz i have multiple producer friends who do them and are very successful with #1 songs from their work.

however, i did not know, until i randomly ran across a tik tok from the vocalist, that there's like vocal sample makers who make vocal samples for producers to flip. she did the little vocal sample that starts the track and runs through it.

that was really interesting to me.

sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtHOGhFZA-Q&t=28s

I know she seems pretty popular

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

She ain’t it

<--- Big Baller World Order

It's women rap which is in trouble.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

That shit is terrible. Like, really irked me, smh.

Ghost Town DJs - My Boo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPu-WOicwLk



This must be how the old heads felt about our generation sampling soul music to rap over loops about "selling crack, fucking bitches and shooting niggas"

hint: it's the same as the premise of this post.

is it the singing?

it was a Miami Bass cut and something we weren’t familiar with but it was undeniably in the club.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

hell no. what is this loud fast miami bass trash??!?

"throw that My Boo on - that's my jam!"

I’ve aged out of this shit and I pray there is a rebirth by the time my kids are old enough to find new music

doing my best to raise these kids on old school and 80’s rnb.

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Like I got one son who loves MF Doom, Kanye and Tyler which I take as a win. Drake is their MJJ which is okay and if I play old school and R&B they might bop along and sing along but they aren't at the point they are playing it for themselves. That will probably come when they get older and nostalgic.

But for now they love the popular ratchet NLE ChoppaLil Tecca type stuff.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

they're not a captive audience to their parent's music like a lot of us were growing up.

once they get devices, they're gone, lol.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme