With that article that just came out it seems that studios are prepared to wait out until the union starts to bleed until members are are in a financial crisis.

But whats the real goal, what are the sticking points and what is the solution?

And the problem is because the TV model got F'd up by streaming.

The streamers will tell you they are losing money while they are simultaneously burning cash and overpaying executives and top show runners.

I hope the actors join the writers, but it's going to be a cold winter. I think it doesn't get fixed until they figure out a new model.

Here is a good article with good background.

https://www.vulture.com/2023/06/streaming-industry-netflix-max-disney-hulu-apple-tv-prime-video-peacock-paramount.html


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and that's why those pieces dropped at the time and in the manner that they did on the cusp of a potential double strike. Studios are looking down the barrel of those quarterly earnings calls and the slates/seasons for next year and are panicked.

Big strategic error that seems to only have emboldened and re-energized the writers and SAG members.

Issues around AI is one of the biggest sticking points and the fact that AMPTP is not even trying to negotiate is a tell on just how important these issues are as is what the DGA settled for a few weeks back.

Best-case scenario is SAG strikes (something like 97% of members who voted did so to authorize a strike a few weeks back) and that'll force the studios back to the table much quicker.

The lessons of 2007-08 loom large and I don't think the writers and actors are playing this time around because they know too much is at stake and they didn't get what they should have last time and getting fucked with no vaseline as a result while empires were built and wealth consolidated at mindboggling speed.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

and deciding they understand the dynamics of each side?

this is pretty standard for union negotiations.

I'm fairly certain the writers have a website that lays out their asks

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

But as Buddy and navajo said, payment for writers is completely fucked right now. While the job is arguably less exclusive than it used to be, most writers aren't working more than a month, if that, on a show. Maybe more importantly, they aren't involved in the production of the show AT ALL.

This is Mike Schur's main sticking point, and I think it should be the loudest. He wasn't just in the writer's room for The Office, he was on set and re-writing lines with the actors based on the vibe of the shoot. He was also interacting with set designers, craft service people, lighting techs, so on.


That kind of experience leads him to develop Parks & Rec, Brooklyn 99, The Good Place, and advise on a bunch of other pilots and network shows, becoming kind of a TV Judd Apatow. Obviously not everybody would get to do that, but the streamer model (specifically Netflix and Amazon, though Hulu and the Max arm of HBO aren't far behind) basically barricades growth from every angle, so even beyond the total drought of residual payments that allow writers to confidently pour 4 months of their lives into show hoping for a recurring living wage if the show succeeds, the writers don't want to be thrown into a conference room for a couple weeks, toss of some jokes they THINK Actor X might be able to make work and then never get to actually engage with said show, actor and line to adjust it if needed.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/#!

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2023/05/08/writers-on-set/


Excerpt:

"And that, in my opinion, is the most important of the things that the Guild is fighting for. The right to have that kind of career path. To enable new writers, young writers, and yes, prose writers, to climb the same ladder.

Right now, they can’t. Streamers and shortened seasons have blown the ladder to splinters. The way it works now, a show gets put in development, the showrunner assembles a “mini-room,” made up of a couple of senior writers and a couple newcomers, they meet for a month or two, beat out the season, break down the episodes, go off and write scripts, reassemble, get notes, give notes, rewrite, rinse and repeat… and finally turn into the scripts. And show is greenlit (or not, some shows never get past the room) and sent into production. The showrunner and his second, maybe his second and his third, take it from there. The writer producers. The ones who already know all the things that I learned on TWILIGHT ZONE.

The junior writers? They’re not there. Once they delivered their scripts and did a revision of two, they were paid, sent home, their salary ended. They are off looking for another gig. If the series gets another season, maybe they will be brought back. Maybe they won’t. Maybe they can’t, since they are off in another mini-room for another show. If they do get brought back, they may get a promotion… but that’s not guaranteed. I know writers who have been Staff Writer on half a dozen different series, and others who have been “Writer’s Room Assistant” (which is the new entry level gig, since no one buys freelance scripts any more) three or four times, never getting off the bottom rung of the ladder so matter how talented they are. And when a junior writer does finally get a better title, even one that will put a P-word on their IMDB credits, they still won’t have any producing experience. In many cases they won’t be asked to set even when the episodes they wrote are being filmed. (They may be ALLOWED on set, if the showrunner and execs are cool with that, but only as a visitor, with no authority, no role. And no pay, of course. They may even be told they are not allowed to speak to the actors).

One of the things the AMPTP put forward in their last offer to the WGA is that some writers might be brought onto sets as unpaid interns, to “shadow” and “observe.” Even that will not be an absolute right. Maybe they will be let in, maybe not. These are the people who wrote the stories being filmed, who created the characters, who wrote the words the actors are saying. I was WAY more than that in 1985, and so was every other staff writer in television at the time.

The juniors may have worked for as long as half a year on the show. All of it in a room, with other writers. But they won’t be part of the casting. They won’t be meeting with the director. They won’t be at the table read. No one will bring them into the editing suite so the editor can explain what he is doing. The line producer will not sit down and go over the budget with them (as Harvey Frand did with me), or patiently explain why they can’t have nine matte paintings or that huge montage. They won’t be sharing lunch with the stars. If a stuntman’s nose is cut off, they will need to read about it VARIETY, since they will be off in another room on another show.

Mini-rooms are abominations, and the refusal of the AMPTP to pay writers to stay with their shows through production — as part of the JOB, for which they need to be paid, not as a tourist — is not only wrong, it is incredibly short sighted. If the Story Editors of 2023 are not allowed to get any production experience, where do the studios think the Showrunners of 2033 are going to come from?

If nothing else, the WGA needs to win that on that issue. No matter how long it may take."

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

I don't know why the AMPTP wouldn't give on this issue because it seems like such an easy non-monetary issue to give on.

I think what is specific to streamers is that their subscription model means writers (and actors) can't participate in the revenue because the subscription model doesn't allow for being paid on individual shows.

Friends specifically generates ad revenue that you can put assign a monetary value to. How do you assign value to a hit show on Netflix? Especially if they aren't transparent on viewership of a show?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

However, I'd argue that the streamer/studio line isn't particularly concrete. It's not siloed in the way it was a decade ago and this model was created in understanding of where things were headed and has only served to grow/solidify under streaming.

What you bring up is actually one of, if not the biggest, issues. They REALLY don't want people to know what those numbers are.

I've been purposefully terse in this and other thread in the interest of energy conservation. There's a trade-off in accuracy.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

>Friends specifically generates ad revenue that you can put
>assign a monetary value to. How do you assign value to a hit
>show on Netflix? Especially if they aren't transparent on
>viewership of a show?

Right now, streaming service companies brag to Wall Street about how well their streamers are doing... while also insisting to creatives that streaming is losing so much money that they can't pay creatives fairly.

Sooooooo which is it? Either way, these studios will take a hit-- but considering the billions of revenue they generate and the hundred of millions they pay their executives, finding a residual system that allows creatives to profit on streaming success shouldn't be insurmountable.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

>With that article that just came out it seems that studios
>are prepared to wait out until the union starts to bleed until
>members are are in a financial crisis.

Truth is that the studios' $$ depends on stock prices, which will plummet soon as the already-written content dries up.

They write articles like this to put pressure on the union, but the union knows it's bullshit. They're prepared.

Even if it weren't bullshit, imagine being the type of person/people who would put out into the public the fact that you are perfectly happy bleeding working people til they literally lose their homes so you can continue to print money. What a shithole country.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

https://www.wga.org/uploadedfiles/members/member_info/contract-2023/WGA_proposals.pdf

What they're asking for amounts to $429 million per year which isn't much considering studios made $20 billion last year. The CEO of Warner Brothers received $246 million in executive compensation for example.

Bought a few options contracts in anticipation of stock price decreases..

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

For the record any statements made about crypto from this account are not, were not financial advice.

While y'all tout disproven talking points we prosper.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

Hit Dog Capital Management over here

--

Woe unto him who in this world courts not dishonor.

he’s still chasing that crypto high from 2020

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

Actors are down. What happened to the directors?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/dga-deal-ratified-1235516600/




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I'm bad at math


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

..but since they're clearly compensated, they rarely go against the studios.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

at the Disney premier event of the movie while NO actors showed up (duh).

just...the irony made me laugh especially that it was a Disney thing and everything w/ Bob Iger's comments, etc.

So naturally a lot of these writer/actor problems (AI, writer's rooms, audition taping, etc.) don't affect them.

And they (generally) get paid more than writers and the overwhelming majority of actors.

So yeah, not much of a surprise that they wouldn't strike.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/13/23794224/sag-aftra-actors-strike-ai-image-rights

From the article:

When asked about the proposal during the press conference, Crabtree-Ireland said that “This ‘groundbreaking’ AI proposal that they gave us yesterday, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get one day’s pay, and their companies should own that scan, their image, their likeness and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity on any project they want, with no consent and no compensation. So if you think that’s a groundbreaking proposal, I suggest you think again.”

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

The timing of the strike and the airing of this episode is quite ironic.

They say "we want your rights forever for free!"
Actors say "we want the power to consent to when you use our image and we want to be compensated for the use of our image!"

Then they say, "THEY'RE BEING SO UNFAIR THEY WON'T MEET US IN THE MIDDLE!" lol

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

studios, execs, etc.

like, i saw a clip of Ron Pearlman (Hellboy, Sons of Anarchy) basically saying like "we know where you live and we can come rip you outta your comfy beds" in response to that "we'll starve the actors out til they are homeless" talk.

i was like DAAAAAAAAAAMN.

i definitely saw others saying serious/aggressive talk as well.

this dude's out here believing he's actually Clay from SOA, when really, he's just a millionaire who tweets alot.

not against the strikes but he's being a goof

i kinda agreed with him, or i at least feel that sentiment to an extent, for SURE.

he's not Clay lol

but seriously, i don't think he was trying to be Clay.

cuz, we are starting to get to that point where the common man (not that actors are exactly "common" but hear me out) is starting to hit the breaking point with the overly rich & wealthy.

for instance, i have a "good job". i have money taken out of my check for health insurance, yet my "good job" still has pretty shitty insurance, so my out of pocket deductible is 5K...so, i gotta pay 5K THAT I DON'T HAVE *AFTER* they take money from me every week before insurance will really kick in...and i HAVE to do it because if i didn't, my family's medical needs would be even worse as far as costs go. it's really a joke. i feel scammed.

like, not making it about me...but this kinda shit is not just gonna go smoothly forever. people are gonna get fed up eventually so if that's real anger? i totally get it.

there's a huge ripple affect that's not really in the conversation, at least not much.
Many who may support his sentiments or maybe see him as just another rich guy who won't *actually* feel this, and yeah most actors and writers are pretty broke and I feel that but it goes pretty far beyond jist them.

I don't know what the breaking point of this strike will be, but I hope it doesn't actually drag as long as it looks like it will

But he's absolutely doing Clay lol

Perlman was responding to that DIRECT quoute.

Anonymous studio execs reportedly said they're willing to let writers be on strike until they're homeless. A writer from FX's hit 'The Bear' show called the comments 'vile' and the 'worst possible PR move.'

yahoo.com/entertainment/anonymous-studio-execs-reportedly-said-022203023.html

Hollywood insiders, including an unnamed studio executive, told Deadline that the plan is to let the strike drag on for several more months until writers start to run out of money.

"The endgame is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses," one unnamed studio executive told the entertainment publication. Deadline also spoke with other unnamed insider sources that confirmed the studios' approach.


Cited story:
Hollywood Studios’ WGA Strike Endgame Is To Let Writers Go Broke Before Resuming Talks In Fall
https://deadline.com/2023/07/writers-strike-hollywood-studios-deal-fight-wga-actors-1235434335/

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

it has nothing to do with anything I said

.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

And how the AMPTP is responding.

https://twitter.com/sentammoses/status/1681127057701617664?s=46&t=rN5CEK0GxqMn2iV9jjd9hg
https://twitter.com/sentammoses/status/1681127119752142848?s=46&t=rN5CEK0GxqMn2iV9jjd9hg
https://twitter.com/sentammoses/status/1681127204078645250?s=46&t=rN5CEK0GxqMn2iV9jjd9hg

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

We stand united.

Aside from the obvious safety issues brought up in recent tragedies during filming, the Studios continue cutting corners.

I appreciate the questions brought up in this thread. Here are a few direct answers from writers:

https://www.wgacontract2023.org/member-voices/why-we-strike


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

i never thought about the fact that our appetite for more and more streaming entertainment is fed by this army of creatives who end up not being rightly compensated nor even offered a decent work environment to work in....

iono, i always had an image of fancy Apple or Google headquarters where staff have these dope benefits.....

what should we the viewers do to support your cause? unsusbscribe from the various streaming platforms? my 8 year-old doesnt even know what network tv is....

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

https://www.wgacontract2023.org/take-action/stand-with-writers


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Me being an average person…

I’m still stuck on comparing my reality of a 9-5 and pretty fixed yearly salary and my perception ( likely wrong) that people in the entertainment industry largely make more money doing less work than the average joe.

What are the salary numbers??
If i work for a company for a year, and then my job ends…. That’s it, what i made that year is what i made, i don’t get residuals…. The company still profits off of the work i put in though….
So it’s difficult for me to have compassion for someone that’s complaining about small residual checks.

but I kinda get what you are saying. I disagree 100% tho.

This is like sports fans saying they dont have compassion for players complaining about their contracts.

I can take myself out of the equation and realize these folks are comparing pay to their peers. Not to the grocery bagger or my lil salary.

and I guess in some ways I like to think if I ever made it to an insane level of salary I would still want to be compensated fairly if my numbers weren’t in line with my peers.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

It’s complicated beyond my level of concern and comprehension at this point though….
I mean i get it…. But at the same time I’m thinking “Damn, that sucks B…. We hiring at my spot if you want me to send you an application “ <<<< in general, not directed at Cyren….

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvNkecUtxq9/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

..the entertainment industry is one big mirage, fam. The only people really cakin' run the studios and run the shows. Everyone else lives check to check. A few get fairly large checks during their prime (like athletes & other entertainers), but that's about it.

The smart people learn to balance the culture while still living within their means. It's the only way to save and thrive.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I don't have percentages for writers, but please believe they are similarly dire, regardless of percentages.

Between studio corner cutting, studio loophole finding, agent and manager percent taking, California tax taking, federal government tax taking, etc., the vast vast majority of people in the entertainment industry require a second job in order to maintain livable wages. (That or living with several roommates.)

People look at Meryl Streep, Aaron Sorkin, and the rest, and they assume that's what everyone makes. Same for looking at reports on guild minimums, which studios consistently find ways of getting around and of which actors/writers consistently often only get to take home roughly a third of when they actually are rewarded the full amount (and paid on time in full).

So yeah, it's hard.

And if you make millions more for your CEOs than the combined workers-- let alone billions-- then please believe writers would support you and your co-workers going on strike as well.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

What's stopping hollywood from accumulating scripts and data as a whole to prepare for the future? Why can't they pay script writers to write scripts for their database? Execs will find a way to get rid of actors and script writers if they can.

Call me crazy but if safeguards are not put in place the industry today won't exist in 400 years.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

AI has to be trained. And it's it's trained on copyright material there is an argument that that use is considered copyright in francement.

There is state law Right of Publicity, meaning you can't just take a picture of Tom Cruise and put it in your Apple commercial without his permission.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

..As of 4p yesterday. Still quite a few hurdles to deal with before a return to work can commence, but this is the 1st major step in the right direction. Once the agreement is finalized, it will be sent to the board and council, which will then vote to authorize ratification by our membership.

https://www.wgacontract2023.org/announcements/negotiations-update-tentative-agreement

Negotiations Update: Tentative Agreement
We have reached a tentative agreement on a new 2023 MBA, which is to say an agreement in principle on all deal points, subject to drafting final contract language.
Sunday, September 24, 2023
Dear Members,

We have reached a tentative agreement on a new 2023 MBA, which is to say an agreement in principle on all deal points, subject to drafting final contract language.

What we have won in this contract—most particularly, everything we have gained since May 2nd—is due to the willingness of this membership to exercise its power, to demonstrate its solidarity, to walk side-by-side, to endure the pain and uncertainty of the past 146 days. It is the leverage generated by your strike, in concert with the extraordinary support of our union siblings, that finally brought the companies back to the table to make a deal.

We can say, with great pride, that this deal is exceptional—with meaningful gains and protections for writers in every sector of the membership.

What remains now is for our staff to make sure everything we have agreed to is codified in final contract language. And though we are eager to share the details of what has been achieved with you, we cannot do that until the last “i” is dotted. To do so would complicate our ability to finish the job. So, as you have been patient with us before, we ask you to be patient again—one last time.

Once the Memorandum of Agreement with the AMPTP is complete, the Negotiating Committee will vote on whether to recommend the agreement and send it on to the WGAW Board and WGAE Council for approval. The Board and Council will then vote on whether to authorize a contract ratification vote by the membership.

If that authorization is approved, the Board and Council would also vote on whether to lift the restraining order and end the strike at a certain date and time (to be determined) pending ratification. This would allow writers to return to work during the ratification vote, but would not affect the membership’s right to make a final determination on contract approval.

Immediately after those leadership votes, which are tentatively scheduled for Tuesday if the language is settled, we will provide a comprehensive summary of the deal points and the Memorandum of Agreement. We will also convene meetings where members will have the opportunity to learn more about and assess the deal before voting on ratification.

To be clear, no one is to return to work until specifically authorized to by the Guild. We are still on strike until then. But we are, as of today, suspending WGA picketing. Instead, if you are able, we encourage you to join the SAG-AFTRA picket lines this week.

Finally, we appreciated your patience as you waited for news from us—and had to fend off rumors—during the last few days of the negotiation. Please wait for further information from the Guild. We will have more to share with you in the coming days, as we finalize the contract language and go through our unions’ processes.

As always, thank you for your support. You will hear from us again very soon.

In solidarity,

WGA Negotiating Committee


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Y’all fought a hell of a fight

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

..Still waiting to get the final details, but the agreement sounds promising.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I definitely don't think they'd have agreed to something that bends to break on any of the core things we were looking for.

Excited to see the full terms, and excited to hopefully return to work very soon!

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

..this year has been rough.

And to think, we were just getting back into the swing of things since the pandemic shut down.

I can't wait to get back to work.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Here's to hoping we both have a fruitful and rewarding three years until the next strike! lol

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

here's hoping you get back to work soon

as an aspiring tv writer, this deal affects all of us. the solidarity and sacrifice that was shown is so inspiring.

we can all push back against greedy capitalism..this shows that Power to the People is not just an empty phrase.

Y'ALL DID THAT SHIT.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

Across a few different type of media companies, I think a lot of companies thought that they would be able to train using existing IP without getting permission or paying the original IP holders. Creators across all industries are pushing back on that. I also think the law will probably land on the side of creators.

With this reality setting in, I think it makes negotiating the AI issue easier.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"