5. "How is that odd if you understand the premise?" In response to Reply # 1
First, his immortality is only significant to Christian ideology because of his triumph over death.
The general basis of Christianity is that He lived as man, died as a spotless sacrifice for the sins of mankind, and resurrected as a triumph over death.
That suffering is celebrated not from some morbid sense but from the standpoint of reflecting on the weight of that sacrifice.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Thu Apr-13-17 03:50 PM
19. "Man all the bloody face pictures emaciated carcass imagery is odd" In response to Reply # 5
that's not this individuals final state "HE IS RISEN" is the mantra is it not? Yet the imagery is almost always of a man who is dying and or suffering despite the fact that this is what's been overcome.
In other words shouldn't the majority of the imagery be associated with the triumph over death not the succumbing to it?
23. "No, it's not, because the death and triumph are hand in hand" In response to Reply # 19
>that's not this individuals final state "HE IS RISEN" is the >mantra is it not? Yet the imagery is almost always of a man >who is dying and or suffering despite the fact that this is >what's been overcome. > >In other words shouldn't the majority of the imagery be >associated with the triumph over death not the succumbing to >it?
Both are equally important and each has considerably less significance absent the other. People gravitate toward whatever imagery they so choose, and the death itself is incredibly significant.
Further, you have it 180 degrees backward: He didn't "succumb" to death. He *gave* his life. He willingly (yes, even after asking if there was any other way) gave his life and took the sin of the entire world unto his body.
Whether or not you believe the story is immaterial; if you consider the ramifications of that, the sheer agony such an act entails, you'll see and understand why the crucifixion event is given so much attention.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Thu Apr-13-17 05:39 PM
24. "I respect you view and interpretation but Miracles >> death IMO" In response to Reply # 23
and rising from the grave is pretty miraculous. Again HE IS RISEN I'm focusing on the words in the book and doctrine which would seem to imply that Jesus (who is supposed to be God and thus never changes) should be celebrated in his RISEN state.
He willingly went to his death but he still succumbed to the process of dying is my point there.
"Do you really not grasp the significane of the crucifixion?"
This isn't about "respecting my view" or even a matter of interpretation, it's about you choosing to completely ignore - seriously, 100%- ignoring the significance of that death.
Did you really just say "miracles>>death"?
You're completely downplaying what that death means, which is the only reason the resurrection matters.
You're treating his death like moms gave him some old fish, he fell ill and kicked the bucket as opposed to a guy whose death was a result of taking the sins of all human beings upon himself after a sinless life that fulfilled 353 prophecies starting with his conception, around 100 of which were specifically about the crucifixion, all leading to his presentation as the ultimate sacrifice for the transgressions of human kind.... and yet somehow you're trying to downplay that as though he just happened to step on a rusty nail and bought the farm.
Again, even taken as *just* a story, you're wildly, absurdly off base on the subject of the crucifixion and it's not a matter of interpretation. You actually did "miracles>>>death" like we're discussing subjective art and not two events with enormous ramifications whether or not you view it in literary or religious context.
25. "Do you really not grasp the significance of the crucifixion?" In response to Reply # 24 Thu Apr-13-17 05:54 PM by Cold Truth
This isn't about "respecting my view" or even a matter of interpretation, it's about you choosing to completely ignore - seriously, 100%- ignoring the significance of that death.
Did you really just say "miracles>>death"?
You're completely downplaying what that death means, which is the only reason the resurrection matters.
You're treating his death like moms gave him some old fish, he fell ill and kicked the bucket as opposed to a guy whose death was a result of taking the sins of all human beings upon himself after a sinless life that fulfilled 353 prophecies starting with his conception, around 100 of which were specifically about the crucifixion, all leading to his presentation as the ultimate sacrifice for the transgressions of human kind.... and yet somehow you're trying to downplay that as though he just happened to step on a rusty nail and bought the farm.
Again, even taken as *just* a story, you're wildly, absurdly off base on the subject of the crucifixion and it's not a matter of interpretation. You actually did "miracles>>>death" like we're discussing subjective art and not two events with enormous ramifications whether or not you view it in literary or religious context.
Atillah Moor Member since Sep 05th 2013 13825 posts
Thu Apr-13-17 06:31 PM
26. "Everybody dies CT it's the conquering of death that is unique " In response to Reply # 25 Thu Apr-13-17 06:32 PM by Atillah Moor
>This isn't about "respecting my view" or even a matter of >interpretation, it's about you choosing to completely ignore - >seriously, 100%- ignoring the significance of that death. > >Did you really just say "miracles>>death"?
Well I'm trying to be simplistic but yes coming back from the dead is greater than dying. If you had witnessed such an event what part of the story would you be the most excited to tell?
>You're completely downplaying what that death means, which is >the only reason the resurrection matters.
No it's important to the story, but without the rising from the dead there is no story right? That part is integral from where I stand.
>You're treating his death like moms gave him some old fish, he >fell ill and kicked the bucket
No I'm treating it like a man who knew he could not die and could summon legions of angels (his words)
as opposed to a guy whose death >was a result of taking the sins of all human beings upon >himself after a sinless life that fulfilled 353 prophecies
The foretelling of his coming in the old testament is not really fact due to evidence of those prophecies being either retro written or re written from their Sumerian origins. Not getting into that. No to mention that we could go through each one and I could point out how they don't speak to his coming.
>starting with his conception, around 100 of which were >specifically about the crucifixion, all leading to his >presentation as the ultimate sacrifice for the transgressions >of human kind.... and yet somehow you're trying to downplay >that as though he just happened to step on a rusty nail and >bought the farm.
See the above paragraph
> >Again, even taken as *just* a story, you're wildly, absurdly >off base on the subject of the crucifixion and it's not a >matter of interpretation. You actually did "miracles>>>death" >like we're discussing subjective art and not two events with >enormous ramifications whether or not you view it in literary >or religious context.
My argument is the suffering of Christ is promoted much more heavily in imagery than his triumph. I can understand the human need to identify with suffering, but the focus always ends on the triumph. That does not appear to be the visual message. To me that is odd if God want's us to not fear death etc.
6. "LMAO. I'm from So-Cal. I'm just here for the plaid button-ups." In response to Reply # 2 Thu Apr-13-17 10:51 AM by Cold Truth
Well, that and a polite way to decline someone's abuelita's nasty, gummy tripas, someone's grandmama's nasty, gassy greens, or someone's granny's nasty, unseasoned mashed potatoes without deeply offending everyone in their family.
Just depends on who invited me to dinner that year.
7. "No dinner invites yet, and I'm low-key offended." In response to Reply # 6
all these Bohos and NoTeps have RUINED the holidays. After while, only old people are gonna celebrate Easter, Thanksgiving, and Xmas.
Everybody is scared to celebrate religious holidays, and cook that good soul food shit. I'mma need me some greens with a big ass turkey neck in that shit.
I want Extra gluten, Sugar, dead animals, and whatever else I'm not supposed to eat. All on one plate.
I don't want any food a Notep is cooking to begin with. I still got old heads I can rely on.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
9. "My immediate family doesn't." In response to Reply # 4
I hadn't even heard of such a thing until I was in my 20s. My family used to spend the whole day in church - 3 services. We had dinner in the church basement with the congregation. That's the life when your parents are a deacon and a church mother. Church all day. _______________________
Printer-friendly copy 
Email this topic to a friend
General Discussion
