When you are testing responsive layouts?

I use the chrome developers tool mobile simulation.

I tend to check for the following:

iphone: 5 / 6 / 6 plus
ipad: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / mini
google: nexus 4
htc: one x / evo lte
samsung galaxy: s4 / note 3 / tab / tab 7.7, 8.9, 10.1
kindle: fire XDX 7

any other devices i should add?

what's your list look like?

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

i only trust physical tests.

so my run-through:

iphone 6/5c - portrait
ipad retina - landscape
macbook retina - fullscreen - image resolution
27" thunderbolt - fullscreen
15" macbook (non-retina) - fullscreen

safari, chrome, IE 10+, Firefox

edit/

I'm only trying to have three testing states. phone, tablet, fullscreen

if i had them lol

i am going with the mobile first approach and then creating breakpoints based on the content. basically exactly what you said...small, medium and large. i will then add breakpoint tweaks inbetween wherever necessary.
i use the device list for the tweaks if necessary.

i am basically trying to follow brad frost's philosophy on media queries: http://bradfrost.com/blog/post/7-habits-of-highly-effective-media-queries/

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

We are creating an application that has to function on a myriad of devices. As technology grows, our work load grows with it.

I frame the Responsive/Mobile friendly aspect of my work as critical and expensive and I charge appropriately. People are under appreciative and have absolutely no idea how much effort it takes to optimize a website for any and every device.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

Do you price for the customer? Project? Or do you have a flat rate?

I ask because my hourly rate is well enough for me, but I got wind that my client is using my project to make themselves A LOT of money.
I feel cheapened.

What do you do?

I adjust my cost from time to time to account for a lower or higher budget. You have to speak to your client, meet them at their office, get a sense of how much money they are "really" working with, because people will always try to pay you pennies.

I take time to explain the complexities, challenges, and time involved. I compare my prices to prices on the internet, and explain why some websites end up costing $30,000.

Don't be shy about speaking about money, in fact, if you are assertive and direct, it garners more respect and a deeper sense of professionalism. If you are scared, or beat around the bush, the client will sense that and distrust will begin to grow.

My entry level package which usually includes:

Home Page, Content pages, Contact Page, Gallery Page.

I design the content pages as well and take time to make them unique. For that I will charge $2,500 and only because I use WordPress which has a lot of that functionality built in already.

Anything after that is modular. If they want to add a basic forum, or a fancy slider, etc. If they want to add a cart or a book an appointment form, etc. Every client and project is unique. Assess what they need, and make them sign off on it. Explain that if they change things they sign off on, that it will cost money to modify it, etc. You have to be really stern and transparent.

Generally speaking, I don't try to make the sum of my money up front, but price my work a bit lower than competitors and make that money back with changes/modifications/additional modules, etc.

I also strcuture my work in phases.

Clients can pay me half up front, or in thirds but I will not do a minute of work without the deposit, and I never work hourly, as I tell the client it will end up costing them more because I dedicate a lot of time and am somewhat of a perfectionist.


>I ask because my hourly rate is well enough for me, but I got
>wind that my client is using my project to make themselves A
>LOT of money.
>I feel cheapened.
>

Yeah for sure, there is that, so make sure you feel happy with what you are getting. The construction worker that builds a bank is not going to make the same amount as the investment banker in the bank, shrug. It's just the way it goes. You can also work on your own business idea, and you already have the means to share it with the world. Create an online firm, frame it in the sense that you help small businesses get off the ground, etc. and make that your niche if you're into that.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

When the recession hit, noone was hiring just a designer anymore, and everyone wanted a hybrid. So my team is just me. Whatever I don't know, I take courses on and piece together. I'm making about $65k a year before taxes doing it on my own. I don't like the idea of paying someone to do something I can just learn. If I really really can't figure something out, I'll hire a specialist to solve a problem for me and pay them.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

I started messing with design for fun and it turned into a career.

I don't have a life save for my girlfriend. I work from morning to night, go out for dinner here and there, but never go out to party anymore. Also cause I had some issues with alcohol and drugs in the past too, so I'm just focused on making as much money as possible now so that I don't have to work forever. Shrug.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

i've had experience with prospective clients taking me out of the running when they find out that I'm super black.

it's actually only happened once, but it was a doozey.

do you have any experience with that?

My clients think I'm artistic and passionate, and honest. I make it a point to always meet deadlines, and I always start my emails with:

"As promised, here is X".

I constantly reaffirm that I am meeting deadlines, even if I stay up till 3, or 4am. I HAVE to send that email.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

solutions suffer?

Solutions do not suffer though. I will stay up, miss sleep, suffer through it, but I won't let it go without making sure its perfect or that I have met my part of the agreement. Taking money from people for work is kind of a really big deal, so I really try to honor my word and their expectations.

My first job as a designer was for a couple of Rhodes scholars and their work ethic was insane to me. One of them had me move in with him for 2 weeks to work on a project, and we would get up at 9am, and work till 2am everyday for 14 days straight. IN the same time, he was studying for his Law exam in Oxford, and literally memorized an Encyclopedia worth of stuff. It was the first time I was exposed to what people can truly accomplish given the focus.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

what sort of drugs do you do?

I like creating sites and learning about them. I get excited about every new project so even though I'm tired, I'm always thinking about how it will benefit me and what I can do to make it better, it drives me. I also don't socialize with anyone except my gf.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

>I also don't socialize with anyone except my gf.

jesus, man.

---

i came back to say it all makes sense.

I'll play later and with more money and in my own way. I also find a lot of social gathering rituals demeaning. Oh I need to wait outside your shitty half empty club to get inside because you want to create the illusion of being popular? fuck you, pay me! (c) Jay Z.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

there's value in getting a variety of opinions. other friends usually can fulfill that.

sure, we're doing it here but the real magic happens offline.

you ever thought about how boring you might be as a result?

yes, excitement is overrated.

but boring is torture.

>there's value in getting a variety of opinions. other friends
>usually can fulfill that.

All I want to do now is be free to surf, travel, and make music and that's why I'm sacrificing friendship and going out now, so i can do that later. I honestly don't mind. I used to go out and party but i'm over it now.

>
>sure, we're doing it here but the real magic happens offline.
>

you're probably right but I actually prefer online friendships and message board interactions to real life ones.

>
>you ever though my about how boring you might be as a result?
>

have you read my posts? lol. i'm the same offline and usually carry most conversations, etc. i like listening to scholarly lectures and treat them as conversations with smarter people, and then i come here and piss everyone off with what i learn, lol.

i'm probably a square now but oh well.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

not everthing outside of your home has to be expensive
i go to a friend's house and watch the game for a few hours
or we might go to happy hour for $2 beers and 25 cent wings
spending no more than $10 total!

do you live in Iowa or somewhere in rural Kentucky?

I'm not sure how you don't interact with many people.

Does your girlfriend talk and hang out with other people besides you?

i have so much to learn and to do that i honestly just don't have time. apart from web/design, i have music and between that and spending time with my gf, i'm basically shit out of luck.

>not everthing outside of your home has to be expensive
>i go to a friend's house and watch the game for a few hours
>or we might go to happy hour for $2 beers and 25 cent wings
>spending no more than $10 total!

not into any sports anymore, lol. man i sound like such a square, but i do like wings and beer! hahaha

>
>do you live in Iowa or somewhere in rural Kentucky?

i live in a big metropolitan city and most things are just based around getting drunk or spending money, at least it seems that way to me.
>
>I'm not sure how you don't interact with many people.

i pretty much only interact with people online

>
>Does your girlfriend talk and hang out with other people
>besides you?

no. we are both pretty comfortable and happy with being each other's only friends, hahaha. she's my best friend and she is also trying to get into med school so we write essays together, she helps me with design, we go out to eat from time to time, watch movies, and mostly just work.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

>i have so much to learn and to do that i honestly just don't
>have time. apart from web/design, i have music and between
>that and spending time with my gf, i'm basically shit out of
>luck.
>
>>not everthing outside of your home has to be expensive
>>i go to a friend's house and watch the game for a few hours
>>or we might go to happy hour for $2 beers and 25 cent wings
>>spending no more than $10 total!
>
>not into any sports anymore, lol. man i sound like such a
>square, but i do like wings and beer! hahaha
>
>>
>>do you live in Iowa or somewhere in rural Kentucky?
>
>i live in a big metropolitan city and most things are just
>based around getting drunk or spending money, at least it
>seems that way to me.
>>
>>I'm not sure how you don't interact with many people.
>
>i pretty much only interact with people online
>
>>
>>Does your girlfriend talk and hang out with other people
>>besides you?
>
>no. we are both pretty comfortable and happy with being each
>other's only friends, hahaha. she's my best friend and she is
>also trying to get into med school so we write essays
>together, she helps me with design, we go out to eat from time
>to time, watch movies, and mostly just work.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

i think that is the only way to go.

i like this tiered model:

http://www.teehanlax.com/blog/tiered-value-based-pricing/

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

3 to 5 options = X
5 to 10 options = X
10 to 15 options = X

Same thing with websites. The more pages, the more money, etc.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

i could see this being strong during the time of hand coded pages etc. but I'm having a hard time letting this formula hold up.

basically, charging per page is funny.

clients will approach you saying, yeah i need this page , that page, and that page.

and they aren't really equipped with the understanding that every function doesn't have to exist on a separate page.

but when you respond with, 5 pages equal 5x, it fucks you up if you've cleverly fit mostly all of the functions on a few or one page.

what do you think?

>but when you respond with, 5 pages equal 5x, it fucks you up
>if you've cleverly fit mostly all of the functions on a few or
>one page.
>
>what do you think?

Like you said, if you can fit a whole bunch of stuff on one page, and that's how you present your design, than that's what you charge for, however, when the site cascades down into mobile, it creates problems as you have this giant scrolling monster, so that's an argument you can use to prevent the client from wanting everything on the same page. Also, Google is not indexing sites that don't have mobile capabilities anymore, so, you can make a strong argument for multiple pages based on that alone. Try to be clever and self serving in your layouts. Today, minimalism is a pretty hot trend and you will have websites with barely any content on the page and giant headings, etc. You can totally work that into many pages that you "Designed" and charge for. I generally ball park X amount of pages too, it's not a precise science.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

when brainstorming with clients.

i like to train my clients to forget about pages. just don't mention them. i'll decide whether it needs an exclusive page or not.

about training your clients, and that's what I generally try to do.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

how do you charge say:

http://www.bellebutters.com/

vs

http://www.kiehls.com/


for intensive purposes let's say they had the same number of products
but of course, kiehls website will generate MUCH MORE revenue than belle's

So what do you do?

It will take the same amount of effort to build either site
But what they will DO with the site is about a $50,000,000 difference

If it's the same site and one site makes 50,000 more in revenue than I would be really happy for my client, feel the security that I will receive the full amount we agreed on, and do an amazing job so that he or she keeps coming back to me for more work, because there is always more work in the pipeline. Creating a site for someone is like building a relationship. You should strive to be their sharpest and most reliable tool and you will make far more money than you expected. However, how much the owner makes with the site has nothing to do with me as there is a lot to running a business that extends far beyond a site. Imagine saying to your client, "well, you're going to make x amount, so you should pay me x, etc." I don't see a good relationship emerging from that conversation. If you are approached by a larger company, than by all means, charge more, but you will have a hard time trying to charge enterprise level prices for something that has the potential to make X amount of money.


>how do you charge say:
>
>http://www.bellebutters.com/
>
>vs
>
>http://www.kiehls.com/
>
>
>for intensive purposes let's say they had the same number of
>products
>but of course, kiehls website will generate MUCH MORE revenue
>than belle's
>
>So what do you do?

I would quote $3,500 to $5,500 range for each of those websites and the final amount would ultimately come down to the amount of changes after a sign off. A web design company starting range is about $5,500 for an E-Commerce site and it usually goes to about $10k. I always charge lower because I would rather get the contract than miss out on an easy $3,500. When my online firm company is complete and up and running, I will raise my prices by about a $1,000 as I will appear established, with many up to date portfolio pieces. The reason why e-commerce sites get expensive is due to the custom business logic associated with making national and international sales, sales by weight, discounts by amount, etc. All these things run up the bill pretty substantially, and I wouldn't tackle a site of that magnitude alone. However, for an entry level E-commerce website, you can use OpenCart, or WooCommerce platform and provide a very stable solution which has a lot of custom logic already built into it. Most firm's will actually provide their own backend solution and that's another reason things get pricey. There are many open source platforms that get the job done rather well. I just learned how to work with OpenCart but I think I will stick to WooCommerce as it has a lot more support and free plugins. OpenCart is still growing. I hope that answers your question.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

yourself?

I'm very aware of the complexity of jobs like that, and am able to do it all. but I'm really having a hard time having a life outside of any of the larger projects that are being done at he same time, ONLY, by me.

it just doesn't seem smart.

and that's cause it's not, right?

I am a one person show
I have done projects that haven taken 3 hours up to 3 months.
I am currently in the beginning stages of one that I thought would take a week but now it seems like it is being expanded and will take 4 to 6 weeks.

It is mainly turning the clients ideas into palpable items and then dealing with their 50 million changes (where I make the bulk of my income).


>I'm very aware of the complexity of jobs like that, and am
>able to do it all. but I'm really having a hard time having a
>life outside of any of the larger projects that are being done
>at he same time, ONLY, by me.
>
>it just doesn't seem smart.
>
>and that's cause it's not, right?

1. Meet with the client. Tell them you want to pick their brain for their Mission and Vision so that you can create a Creative Brief. What all this basically means is that you want to get a list of all their inspirational material, the vision of their company, and some semblance of the business model and target market. As the designer/programmer, this will allow you to get a glimpse of the design and functionality needed to get the job done. When you get that info which looks like this:

"I like websites like X."
"I like colors like x, and x."
"I am going for people in X age group."
"I want the site to have x feel."

So you take that info and put it on a page and call it the creative brief, and you basically shift the verbiage around to present it as a blueprint to the project. Google creative brief for more articulation, I'm being really basic here.

2. Go on themeforest.com

Find a theme which fits the design and functionality criteria as closely as possible, but do not tell your client you are doing that. Most themes come with PSD's and design files. Once you pick a theme that you think is flexible enough to do the job and meet the clients design and business needs, customize the provided PSD's. Get the client's logo in there, change the fonts, colors, pictures, etc. Basically, just skin it with their company and make it as original as possible. That alone will eliminate a crap load of time because you are not starting from scratch.

Send the PSD and proudly display it as a focused solution you created to meet their needs, based on the creative brief, which they signed off on. They will always have feedback, but unless you dropped the ball somewhere, it won't be much. Let them know if they have design changes after this point, it will cost extra but that you are open to small tweaks.

3. Since you bought a theme, lets say a Wordpress/Woocommerce ones, your HTML structure and platform is already done for you. So, you basically tweak the theme, change the HTML/CSS where needed, to fit the altered design, and viola. You have created a professional solution, with all the functionality and design the client wants in a fraction of the time it would take to do it from scratch.

I build sites from scratch from time to time. All the designs I create are original and I actually put a lot of time into them, but I always buy templates to save time on the actual coding. Learn a HTML CSS / Responsive platform like Bootstrap 3 and build on Bootstrap 3 themes and you have your mobile base covered as well.

If I follow the above strategy, which I pretty much always do, I can turn an e-commerce site, that is fairly large in about 2 weeks to a month. Time is money in this business. You can get 5 clients but if you take 6 month's to get their work done, you're not making much. Cut corners by using what is already available to you. Spending $60 on a template and customizing it to get $3,500 is worth the cost over spending 2 month's doing it yourself.

>yourself?
>
>I'm very aware of the complexity of jobs like that, and am
>able to do it all. but I'm really having a hard time having a
>life outside of any of the larger projects that are being done
>at he same time, ONLY, by me.
>
>it just doesn't seem smart.

Doing it from scratch on your own is not smart, I agree, unless its worth the money.


>
>and that's cause it's not, right?

Work smart not hard holds true here. There are so many tools available out there. Honestly, check out lynda.com or treehouse web development as well for really amazing courses, and often they provide project files and literally do the work for you. I cut corners all the time, not because I'm lazy, but because like you said, you can't spend your entire life behind a screen.

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

but still. there are other parts of the process that take time.

typing-out scopes of work. providing fresh documents.

responding timely and appropriately to clients.

meeting with clients about next phases.

as the only person that does all of this, AND produces the shit AND not a slouch at it - i know it takes some serious time and energy and bodies.

if you doing all that and, sustaining it with happy clients and family - you are the fucking man.

in my old, wise age need and want help.

and so then the issue becomes finding appropriate partners.

>in my old, wise age need and want help.
>
>and so then the issue becomes finding appropriate partners.


But good help is hard to find.
No one will care about your business/clients as much as you do.
You'll want to pay your assistant $10/$15 per hour
And they will view that as a throwaway job
So, you'll be back to doing it yourself

I've had THEE WORST time hiring Black people.
They always seem to find a way to let me down.

it hadn't even crossed my mind to hire a non-black.

i'd need to trust the sumumabitch.

>it hadn't even crossed my mind to hire a non-black.


All of them flamed out within 3 weeks.
Hired an Albanian chick, she rode that until the wheels fell off and her husband's job got transferred to Arizona then we had to go looking again.

Same for the janitorial staff.
Hired a handful of blacks, didnt cut it.
Hired one guatemalan lady, been there over 8 years

In my experience, I give Black people a chance, but I've always been burned.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>but still. there are other parts of the process that take
>time.
>
>typing-out scopes of work. providing fresh documents.
>
>responding timely and appropriately to clients.
>
>meeting with clients about next phases.


I always encourage phone meetings over actual sit downs. First sit down, and then all remote usually. I'm lazy, and if I can not go somewhere, I won't. Also, as far as the documents, I basically use the same templates over and over that I created once before, and literally just change client names and the notes themselves. When I listen on the phone, I have notepad open and I take notes, which end up on the brief, etc. Any way I can, I'm cutting corners.

>
>as the only person that does all of this, AND produces the
>shit AND not a slouch at it - i know it takes some serious
>time and energy and bodies.
>

I try to work in intense 8 to 10 hour bursts. I'll put a movie on and just start cracking and half listen to the movie. TV Shows, anything really and I'll stay up on a Friday night till 3 or 4am doing something. I'll sleep in on Saturday and do the same thing again. Sometimes I go till 6am. I try to eat really well and take walk breaks, etc. I stay away from caffeine though because of the crash, I find that drinking fresh vegetable juice is better and sustains me longer, as well as good quality protein bars. Also, I just keep my eyes on the prize and I want that cash so I work intensely until its done but yeah, the older I get, the harder it is.

>if you doing all that and, sustaining it with happy clients
>and family - you are the fucking man.
>

It's working so far but I'm getting out of the game as soon as I can. I want to publish a few of my own themes. People are making serious cash with them and I need to get on that bandwagon asap.

Look at the amount of sales this HTML template has made:

https://wrapbootstrap.com/theme/unify-responsive-website-template-WB0412697

IT's nothing special either. I'm taking jquery and javascript courses now to improve my skills so that I can bang out really fresh themes and sell them. That's basically my plan to get rid of having clients altogether.

>in my old, wise age need and want help.
>
>and so then the issue becomes finding appropriate partners.
>

Hit me up if you need help!

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

a different amount of revenue for these sites

so using value based pricing....one would charge based on the revenue that the site is expected to generate (or increase if it is a re-design).

pricing this way requires dialog with the client .... basically probing them to find out the purpose of their site...and the expected outcomes...(i.e i want to increase my online sales by 10%...i want to generate xyz amount of subscribers) which is something you should be doing anyway since the purpose of a website is to solve a problem.

then continue the discussion to figure out the value that outcome will likely produce for them and then pitch your price based on that.

if they expect $50,000 in revenue generated from the site...then 10% of that is no big deal....and as the expected revenue increase so does the cost of the site since the value of the site increases as well

so yeah....this type of pricing model gets you away from pricing based on hours...or how much work it takes to build a site....there are only so many hours in a day...if you are basing your price on hours alone then you are creating a cap in your potential income....there is only so high an hourly rate a client will accept based on the market. value based pricing allows you to increase your hourly rate without increasing your hourly rate

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

but Kiehl would easily spend $100k on their site

my clients dont know exactly how long it takes me to do what I do but I do give them HOURLY billable invoices.
It just makes them feel better that it is broken down into hours.

Also, if I tell them a change takes 24 hrs to complete but I have it ready in 6 but still bill for the full 24, only once have I been questioned and I let them know that in order to get their project done expeditiously I have a small team of elves that I work with behind the scenes to get things done.

They understand it and I've never been questioned again.

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

i'm trying really hard not to be lol

the key to happiness is not being rich;
it's doing something arduous and
creating something of value and then
being able to reflect on the fruits of your labor

we are 70% mobile apps (with a lot of hybrid pages)
30% SAAS

so sometimes i design fancy "cool" mobile related stuff but most of the time I am designing stuff thats kinda nuts and bolts-y

like, right now I am working on developing a retail specific Ad Server that integrates with our CMS platform

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

doing more than us. we do physical tests across mac/pc chrome,ffx, the latest IEs and then we use our own devices ipad mini, iphone 5, 6, galaxy 4, 5, 6 (and other assorted android devices) and then we use Chrome's device mode tool for the rest.

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

Otherwise, I use my computers and my iPhone, but anything else I'd have to borrow from a friend.

I've been in Axure land for the past few days but thats due the prototype I've been developing

I use a lot of stuff, it just depends

My go to is a 14 x 17 inch notebook that acts a mini white board

i will also spend a lot of time in illustrator, its been my shit for wireframing lately
if i'm doing some information architecture stuff (like, massive platforms, sites, etc) then I'll open omnigraffle

photoshop is a straight up non-starter for me, its good for editing photos and thats about it in my world. fuck slicing, fuck making comps in it. it needs to die in that regard

I also use sketch (havent integrated it into my flow)
and if it comes down to it I will also use Visio or Basalmig (fuck that shit)

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

i'm decent at coding...

but i'm terrible at the creative side...maybe not terrible but ill-equipped

i learned basic code and mostly used it to fix shit...something didn't work the way expected...i'd look into it and fix it

but as far as the visual and graphic aspect...i'm completely in the dark...where should i start to get better at that side...

i can study my ass off and get good with code again but layouts, design, and that side of it has always been over the rainbow for me

how would u remedy that if you were confronted with that skill deficiency? find a biz partner or pick up a book i clearly overlooked? lol

Let me sport my Air Hyperbole 2010s in peace. (c) ansomble

Building repetoires (c) spm since 1983

Photoshop:

http://www.lynda.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-CC-Essential-Training/122999-2.html?srchtrk=index:1%0Alinktypeid:2%0Aq:photoshop%0Apage:1%0As:relevance%0Asa:true%0Aproducttypeid:2



Illustrator:

http://www.lynda.com/Illustrator-tutorials/Illustrator-CC-Essential-Training/122469-2.html



Then you can take courses to apply that knowledge:

http://www.lynda.com/search?q=graphic+design



I was in the opposite boat to yours. I learned coding on my own with courses such as the above. There are other websites out there offering courses but Lynda is pretty good.

Digital Tutors is also really good:

http://www.digitaltutors.com/software/Photoshop-tutorials

~Experience is the currency of the soul.

because the majority of people are on their phone 24/7

and then

desktop, tablet, etc etc