On my car ride home from work yesterday I flip on the radio and they're playing Common's "Sixth Sense." Like everyone else, I love that joint. Then after the song, the host comes on talking about how Common played Soundset and it's great to see "old school" acts at the festival doing their thing and whoopty-woo.
But, I can't accept Common as old school. I know his first album came out 24 years ago. He's been in the game for a long ass time now, but, I also refuse to put him in the same category that I put Kurtis Blow in. He does not belong lumped in with Sugar Hill Gang, or even Kane. That's old school to me. Common certainly ain't new, but this dichotomy between new school and old school just doesn't work for me. At what point does any artist even transition into being "old school." When does Jay-Z become "old school"? Kanye? J. Cole?
Basically, we need some new categories.
I'm the only one that feels this way?
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
3. "That makes sense but it doesn't solve the problem" In response to Reply # 1
which is basically ignoring history or historical eras in order to just separate what's hot right now from everything else.
Like if I'm talking to someone and they say they like "old school hip hop" the only thing they're really saying is that they don't like music from 2009-2016. They could be saying they like Beanie Sigel or that they like Run DMC.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
4. "LMAO! You're mad at getting old, not the categories!" In response to Reply # 0
>I'm the only one that feels this way?
I'm not sure how old you are but 24 years is a long ass time, especially within the realm of hip-hop. And hip-hop "generations" (for lack of a better term) are notoriously short. It makes me grow several more gray hairs, when I hear people say it. But that's definitely old school to the younger generation of today.
Folks who are nearly 30 probably don't remember that song from when it dropped.
And I'm 30. I remember when that song came out. My point is that "old school" is too all encompassing. So much so that it almost doesn't mean anything at all. Basically just that it hasn't been "hot" in the mainstream for 5+ years.
That kinda dichotomy just isn't useful for anything that's more than a decade old. And like you said, the generations in hip-hop move very fast making "old school" even more useless.
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
15. "I think I have a better understanding of what you mean..." In response to Reply # 7
I think you see "old school" as being a set & specific era. Let's say 1980-1986 is your "old school" era. So you don't like when the younger generations refer to Common, Wu-Tang, Snoop, etc as old school. It's like this era deserves its own specific name.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80183 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 11:05 AM
5. "10 years ago they played Biggie and called it old school" In response to Reply # 0
I was HEATED!!!
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80183 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 11:23 AM
24. "yeah, I see what dude is saying. " In response to Reply # 11
Old School is early 80's rap for old heads.
but for a 15 year old In Da Club is their Old School.
shit hurts my soul tho when I hear them say old school mix and it's shit from 7 years ago.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
36. "Yeah, I was REALLY late to the party" In response to Reply # 34
I used it from maybe 2000-2004. And this was around the time when digital music was really taking off. I just never imagined that I'd ever stop using CDs.
61. "You literally just returned home from FYE" In response to Reply # 34
You literally just copped an All City Crew cd and a tape adapter for your DiscMan because you refuse to upgrade that car stereo to that fancy newfangled digital display.
9. "Our verbiage is awful sometimes." In response to Reply # 0
No one really says "old school rock". It's "classic Rock", prestigious and required listening. "Old school hip hop & R&B" invokes images of washed Unsung artists still trying to hold on to relevance.
My mom showed me a FB video where this kid had no idea why her mom was grooving so hard to "I Wanna Be Your Lover".
44. "Star made this same point on the Rapaport podcast" In response to Reply # 9
Old School doesn't work. I think we should use something like Classic Hip Hop which can encompass RUN DMC and Wu Tang, but only the really classic stuff. Aside from that we can call them by numerical generations like Transformers. G1 is Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Cold Crush. G2 is Run DMC, LL, Whodini. G3 is Big Daddy Kane, Kool G, Ice T, EPMD, NWA (Aka the beginning of the Golden Age).
10. "I was 16 in *does the math* like 1993 or so...." In response to Reply # 0
1993 - 24 = 1969. I guarantee you that ANY song that was played on the radio from 1969 would have been considered "old school". Hell...even though Stevie Wonder was still making hits in the 90's he was Old School....
18. "But it wasn't a 24 year old song, it was a 16 year old song." In response to Reply # 10 Thu Jun-02-16 11:32 AM by Hitokiri
From an artist who's popularity peaked 11 years ago.
But my point isn't that Common isn't a vet or that his music is hot right now or anything like that. Just that if he's old school, what do we call Grandmaster Caz? How can we put the two of them in the same box?
--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80183 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 11:24 AM
26. "cmon bruh.. a 16 year old song is OLD as hell to a kid" In response to Reply # 18
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
28. "That just proves the point though. Years don't make the classification" In response to Reply # 18
as much as how far the art form & sound has progressed beyond the lane that the artist started in. ... it's even MORE pronounced if the artist has maintained that lane.... Common is unique though, he's one of the FEW from that era that STILL has bars and can STILL get new fans... So i'll give you that he shouldn't be lumped with that "old school" crowd.
Maybe there should be terms for those that have kept themselves relevant?
>From an artist who's popularity peaked 11 years ago. > >But my point isn't that Common isn't a vet or that his music >is hot right now or anything like that.
Nah, I feel you on that. I wasn't taking it that way....
>Just that if he's old school, what do we call Grandmaster Caz?
OLD... lol... nah, he's Pioneer Status. .... but still Old School. Or probably would be in the Years catagory really. Kinda like other genres just get categorized by the years once they aren't "current"... 90's Rock, 80's R&B, 60's Soul, etc.....
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
Decade labels are cool when you wanna look back and remember where you were when something dropped. But they're not helpful in classifying the music in a useful manner for history's sake.
25. "Spin off topic - what about everything outside of hip hop" In response to Reply # 0
my girl and I like a range of music
and the question was...what happens when you have kids and you like music that qualifies as "old school" to you but then also liking music thats even considered "old school" to your parents and even grand parents?
-DJ R-Tistic- Member since Nov 06th 2008 51986 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 11:33 AM
30. "I recently said this because someone mentioned "Oldies" to me" In response to Reply # 0
I was doing a party, and the girl throwing it asked me to play "Oldies".....to me, "Oldies" = 60's Lowrider music, maybe even Motown. But then she mentioned 80's acts like Loose Ends and Roger & Zapp, and I'm like.....that's "Old School" but not "Oldies."
To me, "Oldies" are the 60's. "Old School" is 70's and 80's, Rap, Funk, Soul. The 90's are...90's. The connotation of "Old School" just doesn't match the 90's, Soundwise or even style/culturally.
50. "The classification is completely immaterial. " In response to Reply # 35
and the way you framed it was in direct relation to what old school is to *you*. Like... verbatim.
This is absolutely about you getting older because "old school" is always relative to the generation at hand.
You ask if it makes sense to classify Common the same way we classify SHG and that framing only makes sense to people our age, but to a 19 year old that's ALL old school.
Your OP header was "I can't take this old school shit" which is very much a statement of someone who is getting older and unhappy with the fact that the things they came up on are now considered old school.
The name you choose to refer to an MC from the 90's or 00's is 100% arbitrary so yeah, it makes sense to refer to Common as old school whether or not he "feels" or "seems" "old school" according to my frame of reference because he's old as a motherfucker and I've been listening to him for half my life.
No matter how you frame it this is absolutely about your age in relation to ever changing world around you.
54. "lol have some warm milk and a nap you wack ass curmudgeon" In response to Reply # 52
I had a respectful conversation with you on the topic and you respond with this little tantrum?
You're going downhill fast old man. Today it's being mad that someone called Common old school. A year from now you'll be shitting your pants and being mad that your lime Jello didn't have the fruit cocktail and whipped cream the way you like it.
When I was in High School in 1986 and they played a song by someone who started their career in 1964 I thought it was super old school. The Beatles had broken up in 1970 and they were ANCIENT to me.
65. "You want a more structured classification for what's old school or not" In response to Reply # 39
Like 1979 - 1983 is old school
Run DMC is "new school"
From Eric B and Rakin to Wu-Tang is "Golden era."
Say 1994 - 2001 is "Classic Hop Hop"
2001-2015 is contemporaneity hip hop.
2015-2016 is NEW music..
The did this in the 80's - they had radio stations that played decades - not music types. We had 70's, 60's, 50's AND 40's. As time went on 40's dis-aapeared. Then 50's and 60's melded into one. Then 80's became a thing. The Classic rock replaces 70's, 60's, and 50's.
Enjoy the music you like and KIM when some radio DJ is blathering on - they we'rent shit when we were kids and they ain't shit now.
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 80183 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 11:57 AM
43. "he's talking classification not age" In response to Reply # 41
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
74. "RE: he's talking classification not age" In response to Reply # 43
Yeah, I got that. But it's still about age. The 'Old School' label will change depending on how old you are. I went out with some young friends and the DJ put on what they thought was OLD School and it was SWV. Shit I heard in my early 20s. That's not old school to me, but its' old school to them. My old School is Parliament Funkadelic, EWF, CAMEO, etc.
now or never Member since Oct 27th 2004 3821 posts
Thu Jun-02-16 12:34 PM
47. "the distinction will prolly be "classic hip hop" like "classic rock"" In response to Reply # 0
like kday in LA plays all old hip hop but they don't distinguish between 80s/90s/early 00s really i think as time goes on, if the market diversifies in a way where stations see interest that might happen but since a lotta ppl don't listen to the radio anymore rap might not get the classic rock treatment
----- No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.
64. "No real clear answer for this" In response to Reply # 0
I hate to play the "back in my day" card, but, you know, back in my day, "old school" was everything that came before Run-DMC. And that made sense. Run-DMC is a good point to draw the line: Pre hip-hop album era and album era.
That doesn't do a lot for the subsequent 30+ years though. I guess you could wrap up the rest of the '80s and the first half of the '90s as "classic hip-hop," but I don't know how to divvy up the next 20 years.
67. "RE: I can't take this "old school" shit." In response to Reply # 0
We old...
Dunno what to call it though.. no one does.. I mean LA will have a Classic West Coast show with The Game and Ice Cube as headliners...
Double 0 DJ/Producer/Artist Producer in Kidz In The Hall ------------------------------------------- twitter: @godouble0 IG: @godouble0 www.thinklikearapper.com
70. "The rules don't change when your own "era" becomes old school, fam" In response to Reply # 0
In the late 80s/early 90s, alotta 70s music was considered "ol skool"... So how in the hell is a 20+ yr old song not old school today? This isn't a new phenomenon. Unless you've always hated the "old school" tag, I don't see why this would start now, unless people in here are right about you just not dealing well with aging.
also...
>I also refuse to put him in the same category >that I put Kurtis Blow in. He does not belong >lumped in with Sugar Hill Gang, or even Kane. >That's old school to me
Those artists are also old school, just like Sam Cooke and Rick James are both old school despite being about 20 yrs apart in prime. The "old school" tag is just fresher on one of them.
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