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Subject: "Kevin Smith's RED STATE distribution model" This topic is locked.
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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 08:42 AM

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"Kevin Smith's RED STATE distribution model"


  

          

Yes, I know. "Fuck that hack" "No I like his films if you don't like 'em you're a jerkoff" "I used to like him but I grew up" blah blah blah.

Not here to debate any of that. But have y'all been following the news out of Sundance on how he plans to release RED STATE complete independently? And on top of that, in the future, help other filmmakers do the same? It's a gamble to say the least, but I think it could be rather huge if successful. I really can't see anyone outside of an established name be able to pull this off, but still... I bet the studios are watching closely...

Some links on the announcement: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70N1L420110124

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118030735?refCatId=13

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
the ceiling is low on this if the movie is lousy
Jan 24th 2011
1
That's the other thing... if this is moderately successful....
Jan 24th 2011
4
It's an interesting idea; I just wish he didn't say "Indie 2.0"
Jan 24th 2011
2
his last good movie was clerks.
Jan 24th 2011
3
Even if you hate all his movies...
Jan 24th 2011
16
      Chasing Amy gets less interesting every time I watch it.
Jan 24th 2011
17
      ..but it is.
Jan 24th 2011
18
      boring.
Jan 24th 2011
29
Deadline reported he "imploded" at Sundance: (swipe)
Jan 24th 2011
5
Well that sucks
Jan 24th 2011
6
Honestly, this article reads mad.
Jan 24th 2011
7
I don't know a whole lot about how buying a film @ a festival works, but
Jan 24th 2011
8
Well, if he did indeed invite them, I agree that's wack
Jan 24th 2011
9
      Yeah, and he never told them he was distributing himself.
Jan 24th 2011
10
           So did he invite them or just not say anything either way?
Jan 24th 2011
11
                You don't have to invite people-- that's not how it works.
Jan 24th 2011
12
                     If he really does have a problem with this system then wouldn't this
Jan 24th 2011
15
                     He seems to be saying that he's always planned to s4lf-distib.
Jan 24th 2011
21
                          I've been following his Twitter feed.
Jan 24th 2011
23
                               ^^^ listen to this man
Jan 24th 2011
25
                               Okay, if that's the case, then the auction was bad form
Jan 24th 2011
27
                                    Totally agreed on that.
Jan 24th 2011
28
                                    ^^is profane, wears hockey jerseys
Jan 24th 2011
30
                                    Hey, I fucking hate the NHL
Jan 24th 2011
31
                                    Oh sure, that's just Mike Fleming being a pissy little twat, lol.
Jan 24th 2011
34
Deadline always reads mad. That's their schtick.
Jan 24th 2011
22
yup. the joke's on this clown, and he's mad.
Jan 24th 2011
53
He actually could have -- and should have -- lied
Jan 24th 2011
13
It's on the blogs' heads... not his.
Jan 24th 2011
20
So every single studio's scouting team made an error?
Jan 24th 2011
24
      No, the journalists who made it look like he was selling the movie did.
Jan 24th 2011
26
           Okay, so I just got home from work and saw the Tweets.
Jan 24th 2011
33
                here's the fully unedited tweet stream
Jan 25th 2011
59
The Video:
Jan 24th 2011
32
      Yeah, it is reeeeeal easy to see why he pissed people off, LOL.
Jan 24th 2011
37
      Well, he's regularly selling out Q&As for the same price.
Jan 24th 2011
38
           Well, he's also contradicting the efficiency of this business model.
Jan 24th 2011
39
                RE: Well, he's also contradicting the efficiency of this business model.
Jan 24th 2011
55
                     So the movie itself isn't making a profit then.
Jan 24th 2011
57
                          q&a tickets are usually around 50 bucks
Jan 25th 2011
58
                          RE: So the movie itself isn't making a profit then.
Jan 25th 2011
97
                               I wouldn't pay 30 dollars to see The Godfather in theaters.
Jan 25th 2011
98
                                    RE: I wouldn't pay 30 dollars to see The Godfather in theaters.
Jan 25th 2011
103
                                         "6, 8, maybe 10 times a normal ticket price."
Jan 25th 2011
105
                                              RE: "6, 8, maybe 10 times a normal ticket price."
Jan 26th 2011
113
                                                   But you're merely blindly defending him on faith.
Jan 26th 2011
121
                                                        RE: But you're merely blindly defending him on faith.
Jan 26th 2011
130
                                                             HE SAID THIS.
Jan 26th 2011
131
                                                                  RE: HE SAID THIS.
Jan 26th 2011
132
      Damn, Fleming's account made it sound like he came out and did this
Jan 24th 2011
45
      It's surprising, and he did stick it to the studios...
Jan 24th 2011
46
      I'm not that sorry, it's a fucking film festival. Come see a movie = Eth...
Jan 25th 2011
63
           Agreed.
Jan 25th 2011
69
           But he's not doing that though.
Jan 25th 2011
78
                I think the point is that he's trying to show that filmmakers can promot...
Jan 25th 2011
100
                     Okay, but how can they self-market with no money?
Jan 25th 2011
104
I try to defend this guy at all turns.
Jan 24th 2011
14
he's going door-to-door with jay?
Jan 24th 2011
19
he held up this sign I guess:
Jan 24th 2011
35
classy
Jan 24th 2011
36
It's a Kevin Smith presentation. Did cats really think they were going
Jan 24th 2011
42
      ^^really likes mallrats
Jan 24th 2011
49
           Mallrats>>>>>>>>The Town
Jan 25th 2011
62
           is that shock posting?
Jan 25th 2011
64
                Just a homer for Mallrats
Jan 25th 2011
65
                     but he stink palmed Stan Lee...
Jan 25th 2011
66
                          Mallrats has too much nostailgaic appeal for me to think straight about ...
Jan 25th 2011
67
                               I enjoyed the Town yes
Jan 25th 2011
72
           ^^^ Cried because Grown-Ups didn't get any nominations
Jan 25th 2011
68
                i fucking hated grownups
Jan 25th 2011
71
                     ^^^ Lying
Jan 25th 2011
73
                          yawn
Jan 25th 2011
74
                               ^^^ Started a fight he can't finish
Jan 25th 2011
75
                                    is this real or pretend
Jan 25th 2011
76
                                         For someone who hates Kevin Smith you're responding awfully fast
Jan 25th 2011
77
                                              Cere's upset because his role in Grown Ups got cut.
Jan 25th 2011
79
                                              it was filmed around here. a friend of a friend was an extra.
Jan 25th 2011
81
                                              i didnt say I hated him, and why wouldnt I?
Jan 25th 2011
80
It's a great idea but
Jan 24th 2011
40
^^
Jan 25th 2011
86
The idea of a tour sounds cool
Jan 24th 2011
41
Nah I don't think so.
Jan 24th 2011
43
      it's really this simple;
Jan 24th 2011
44
           Yep. Here is where the quality of the film really comes into play.
Jan 24th 2011
47
It was all good just a decade ago.
Jan 24th 2011
48
plus he cant fit on airplanes.
Jan 24th 2011
51
Unashamed View Askew stan, but I can't ride for this...
Jan 24th 2011
50
he's like Bret Hart
Jan 24th 2011
52
      Damn, perfect analogy
Jan 24th 2011
56
      shawn michaels was more original.
Jan 25th 2011
61
nice. hope it works for him.
Jan 24th 2011
54
Sometimes, pot is really not good for self-awareness
Jan 25th 2011
60
his interview on the Marc Maron was REALLY defensive
Jan 25th 2011
70
This is why I've turned away from him recently:
Jan 25th 2011
82
Hate to say it, but you're right
Jan 25th 2011
83
never good for the morbidly obese
Jan 25th 2011
84
      And now, fat jokes.
Jan 25th 2011
93
           he's not fat
Jan 25th 2011
99
                Says the anti-Kevin Smith guy in a Kevin Smith post
Jan 25th 2011
107
                     this is a messageboard
Jan 26th 2011
118
                          i think his point is that you are posting alot of them
Jan 26th 2011
122
right, at no point during the interview
Jan 25th 2011
91
He's still funny and relatively complaint-free on the
Jan 26th 2011
114
      yeah
Jan 26th 2011
119
           lol
Jan 26th 2011
123
           You're still here! Talking about clothes! Awesome
Jan 26th 2011
124
           hey, whatever gets you off
Jan 26th 2011
126
           TUESDAY AFTERNOON AT THE CERE HOUSEHOLD!
Jan 26th 2011
128
                she's pregnant. she eats the last of everything.
Jan 26th 2011
129
I kept waiting for Marc to snap on him about the weed
Jan 25th 2011
89
lol
Jan 25th 2011
92
Yeah. He really came off like a dick at times.
Jan 25th 2011
112
is he wearing capri-style jorts?
Jan 25th 2011
85
That's actually a "Puck U" jersey
Jan 25th 2011
87
      you're a good reader
Jan 25th 2011
88
The Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor just posted that the tickets
Jan 25th 2011
90
RE: The Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor just posted that the tickets
Jan 25th 2011
94
      ^^^ pot calling the kettle fat
Jan 25th 2011
95
           i prayed to lose weight and it worked
Jan 25th 2011
96
MALLRATS was an answer on Jeopardy tonight
Jan 25th 2011
101
^^^ Believes this exercise in trolling is working
Jan 25th 2011
108
      clearly it is working
Jan 26th 2011
117
           Yes
Jan 26th 2011
125
                I know.
Jan 26th 2011
127
For those saying the model wont work for indie filmmakers...
Jan 25th 2011
102
Right, it has to be cheap as fuck with Smith in tow and regular ticket p...
Jan 25th 2011
106
I dunno, $65 is pretty steep for someone in college
Jan 25th 2011
110
      Right, but that's not what I'm saying.
Jan 25th 2011
111
Wait -- Kevin Smith still has defenders? BWAHAHAHAHAH
Jan 25th 2011
109
^^^^^^^^^
Jan 26th 2011
120
man fuck him old low budget ass hack
Jan 26th 2011
115
did he already record any podcast episode about it?
Jan 26th 2011
116
Not a big horror fan but the trailer looks a lot better than I expected
Jan 27th 2011
133
Man on Wire director James Marsh shits on Kevin re: Sundance behavior
Feb 03rd 2011
134
He's absolutely right. And Man on Wire >> any Smith film.
Feb 03rd 2011
135
That is the ugliest article I've ever seen.
Feb 03rd 2011
136
      Well sure, it's Cinemablend. But Marsh's point still stands.
Feb 03rd 2011
137
      huh; they must have edited it
Feb 03rd 2011
138
Night 1: $161,590
Mar 06th 2011
139
3800 ppl is a lot for what it is IMO
Mar 13th 2011
140
He said 1700 seats was their break even.
Mar 13th 2011
141
RED STATE, post tour, pre wide release is already in the black
Apr 19th 2011
142
#WINNING
Apr 19th 2011
143
And again, I reiterate, they're not paying to see the movie.
Apr 19th 2011
144
Yeah, i really don't see this becoming a big trend.
Apr 19th 2011
146
And it wouldn't work with nearly any actor who'd be in an indie too.
Apr 19th 2011
148
furthermore, he's bullshitting about the marketing costs
Apr 19th 2011
147
He's not funding other people's pictures.
Apr 19th 2011
149
      That's not the relevant sticking point.
Apr 19th 2011
150
That's really good news for people like me
Apr 19th 2011
145
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/jan/24/kevin-smith-wins-deal-sundanc...
Jan 24th 2012
151
The shit worked for him.
Jan 24th 2012
152
      But, again, HE is touring with the films
Jan 25th 2012
153

Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18388 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 08:59 AM

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1. "the ceiling is low on this if the movie is lousy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and as earnest as his intent may be, it could be lousy.

However, if the movie is good and he's out there pounding the pavement for it, legitimate buzz could build and last into the Spring.

This is most definitely a high risk, high reward situation but I wish him luck.

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 12:45 PM

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4. "That's the other thing... if this is moderately successful...."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

...the profit return is going to be through the roof for anyone who has a piece in this film. But, like you said, it all hinges on how good the film is.

I'm hearing really good things about Michael Parks in this film. Always liked that dude. Can't wait to see what he does in that role.

_
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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 09:02 AM

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2. "It's an interesting idea; I just wish he didn't say "Indie 2.0""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

because now it's almost destined to fail.

---------------------------------
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cereffusion
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Mon Jan-24-11 10:25 AM

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3. "his last good movie was clerks."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:41 PM

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16. "Even if you hate all his movies..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

You can't think Chasing Amy is worse than Clerks. Sorry.

------------------------------

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:49 PM

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17. "Chasing Amy gets less interesting every time I watch it."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          




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shockzilla
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:50 PM

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18. "..but it is."
In response to Reply # 16


          

  

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cereffusion
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29. "boring. "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:27 PM

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5. "Deadline reported he "imploded" at Sundance: (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.deadline.com/2011/01/sundance-watching-kevin-smith-implode/

Kevin Smith lost some cred with indie distributors last night when he hosed the teams that came to the premiere of Red State looking for an acquisitions title. Instead, they were subjected to a bogus auction that opened and closed with his $20 bid and announcement he would self distribute. Before he got to this sham climax, Smith spent 15 minutes shitting all over those buyers in the crowd, the ones watching films all day and pulling all-nighters to broker deals. His rant made Smith seem like a tortured, angry guy.

Smith introduced the film with a vulgar opening monologue, low-lighted by a spectacularly tasteless joke made at the expense of the young female producer standing next to him. After the movie, Smith reappeared. Wearing a hockey jersey, he introduced Wayne Gretzky’s stick, for some reason. Despite this hockey-themed beginning, Smith was oblivious to the fact we all simply wanted him to drop the puck and get on with the auction. Instead, Smith launched into his 15-minute long diatribe that betrayed a misunderstanding of the indie theatrical distribution game. He gave a simplistic and incorrect evaluation of the business model. Smith said if he sold his $4 million Red State, a distributor would need to pay $20 million in P&A, and would then need to gross more than twice that $24 million just to recoup (Smith seemed to forget that P&A triggers ancillary revenues that often provide the profit margin). He made it all sound shady.

Following the "auction,' buyers and their teams filed out of this Twilight Zone episode while Smith discussed his distribution plans and how he'd shun the press and rely on his Twitter and podcast following. He even showed off sneakers he successfully hawks on his sites to prove his economic viability. It was a little like LeBron James’s “I’m taking my talents to South Beach spectacle,” if instead of James, the player involved was the 10th man on the bench. Smith, who showed us a sale-able movie last night, could simply have said he wanted to try a new business model and everybody would have been on his side. That subversive strategy worked in last year's Sundance pic, Exit Through the Gift Shop. Nobody begrudged its success. Buyers could have skipped the screening and 100 seats would have been there for moviegoers who wanted to see Smith's new film, his first in the horror genre.

Buyers I spoke to were annoyed Smith wasted their time, and offended that he belittled what they consider to be an honorable business, gambling millions of dollars and working tirelessly to launch new filmmakers and hopefully turn a profit. As Harvey Weinstein once did when he took a chance on Smith’s Clerks.

“He stole two hours and insulted every one of us,” said one prominent buyer. “We were told this was an acquisition title, we all brought our teams. We could have spent that time evaluating some other movie. Kevin didn’t acknowledge that we are the ones risking capital acquiring films and putting up P&A, not him, and he didn’t understand how our business works, at all. He was a little like the twisted preacher Michael Parks played in his film. It became life imitating art.”

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Marauder21
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:31 PM

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6. "Well that sucks"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Because I'm on his side regarding the actual distribution model. It might work, it might not, but I am glad someone with his (relative) clout is giving it a shot.

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mrhood75
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:32 PM

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7. "Honestly, this article reads mad."
In response to Reply # 5
Mon Jan-24-11 01:33 PM by mrhood75

  

          

I'm not even saying Smith is/was in the right, but this article reads like some b.s.: panning his "vulgar" speech, insulting him wearing a hockey jersey, and then copping pleas for the "honorable" distribution profession. Whatever man.

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Marauder21
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:35 PM

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8. "I don't know a whole lot about how buying a film @ a festival works, but"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

it seems pretty dickish to invite people to bid on your film, only to tell them you won't let any of them have it.

------

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mrhood75
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:38 PM

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9. "Well, if he did indeed invite them, I agree that's wack"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I'm not really sure if he did invite them or they just showed up.

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Frank Longo
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:50 PM

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10. "Yeah, and he never told them he was distributing himself."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

So these teams all did research on the film, prepared bids, and used valuable time they could have spent on other available films trying to acquire Smith's film.

Then, his means of announcing this fact was to open the bidding and close it himself. Total misread of the festival circuit, which is insanely surprising considering his career's foundation in it.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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mrhood75
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:03 PM

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11. "So did he invite them or just not say anything either way?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

'Cause it may seem like splitting hairs, but there's a difference.

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Frank Longo
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:14 PM

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12. "You don't have to invite people-- that's not how it works."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

If you're a director of any notoriety, and you don't announce that you have a distribution plan yet, then studios have teams prepare to scout your project and figure out the value in order to acquire it. Smith didn't just break the protocol-- he pissed in the protocol's face in front of all of the people who'd spent hours and hours working solely on attempting to acquire distribution rights to his film.

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Lardlad95
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:40 PM

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15. "If he really does have a problem with this system then wouldn't this"
In response to Reply # 12
Mon Jan-24-11 02:41 PM by Lardlad95

  

          

be the most logical way to say fuck you?

He does his model-sans spectacle and if it's successful people in entertainment do what they always do, they latch onto it. If, as Smith is indicating, the world of independent film has become a corporatized parody of its self, then I suspect that Smith is trying to return it to its anti-establishment roots.

This isn't to say that he's right or wrong, but lets be honest the people quoted in that article are coming to the situation with about as much objectivity as Smith is, only they ended up on the losing end of that battle (we'll see who wins the war). Of course they're going say that Smith mischaracterized how independent film distribution works. I'm sure there are Nike execs who can shoot a bunch of jargon at you to explain why Indonesian sweat shops are a good thing.

It does seem like kind of a dick move, but I think that was the point.

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:42 PM

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21. "He seems to be saying that he's always planned to s4lf-distib."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Granted, this post is the first time I've even heard about this movie, but if he indeed he publicly said he never planned to get outside distribution for the movie, and the distributors did indeed show up do to blog reports on his joke tweet, than that's on the distributors. I imagine he or his reps can be reached ahead of time.

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:52 PM

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23. "I've been following his Twitter feed."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

He never said he was going to self-distribute. In fact, Jon Gordon the producer DENIED they were going to self-distribute recently. Smith said his goal was to sell the flick for $1 mil more than Hustle and Flow went for so that it'd be the highest amount a Sundance movie sold for. He JUST tweeted it was hard to keep it under wraps that that was the plan all along.

He pissed in people's faces.

If this fails, it will bite him in the ass HARDCORE.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:01 PM

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25. "^^^ listen to this man"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>He never said he was going to self-distribute. In fact, Jon
>Gordon the producer DENIED they were going to self-distribute
>recently. Smith said his goal was to sell the flick for $1 mil
>more than Hustle and Flow went for so that it'd be the highest
>amount a Sundance movie sold for. He JUST tweeted it was hard
>to keep it under wraps that that was the plan all along.
>
>He pissed in people's faces.
>
>If this fails, it will bite him in the ass HARDCORE.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:30 PM

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27. "Okay, if that's the case, then the auction was bad form"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Still don't care about him being profane or wearing a hockey jersey though.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:41 PM

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28. "Totally agreed on that."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

If theres 2 things Kevin Smith does, it's wear a hockey jersey and curse.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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cereffusion
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:44 PM

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30. "^^is profane, wears hockey jerseys"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:54 PM

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31. "Hey, I fucking hate the NHL"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

So you're only half right.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jan-24-11 05:20 PM

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34. "Oh sure, that's just Mike Fleming being a pissy little twat, lol."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

He's written a bunch of pissy shit. He's right about the studios being pissed for a reason though.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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bignick
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:44 PM

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22. "Deadline always reads mad. That's their schtick. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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bshelly
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Mon Jan-24-11 10:25 PM

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53. "yup. the joke's on this clown, and he's mad."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:35 PM

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13. "He actually could have -- and should have -- lied"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon Jan-24-11 02:37 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

before screening the film and said that he had changed his mind, or that he had consulted with John Pierson or someone else about it, or that he had had "an epiphany" and ultimately decided to distribute it himself, then apologized for taking everyone's time and said anyone who wanted to be out before the screening could do so... he could have saved a *little* face at least...

(and granted, we don't know what was said during his "diatribes" but he really could have saved everyone the trouble)

Instead he put on a dog-and-pony show and played bad politics. Ol' Man Harv ain't gonna be able to save his ass on this one.

And yes, trolls, I still like/watch his movies and podcasts.

_________________________________________________________________________
The New Shit

twitter.com/LetsStay2Gether

also on Facebook

I WILL NOT LET YOU FORGET IT

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:12 PM

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20. "It's on the blogs' heads... not his."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

They reported it incorrectly since day one. Something he's been adamant about for the past year. People don't fact check. Or ask the widely accessible dude for clarification. They just read a tweet and create their own story. It's irresponsible journalism. I mean, shit, look at that Keanu/MATRIX sequel story. All it took was one phone call to debunk that shit. Anyway, here's Smith on the matter:

http://twitter.com/#!/ThatKevinSmith/status/29616653985644544
http://twitter.com/#!/ThatKevinSmith/status/29616956785037312
http://twitter.com/#!/ThatKevinSmith/status/29617153153966080
http://twitter.com/#!/ThatKevinSmith/status/29617398038405120

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:59 PM

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24. "So every single studio's scouting team made an error?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Why would he bother with the "fake auction" format at all if it was such common knowledge?

He misread the situation and could've made an official announcement beforehand-- or as Zoo said, he could've backpedaled and said he'd changed his mind recently rather than rubbing it in their face with the auction "gag."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:16 PM

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26. "No, the journalists who made it look like he was selling the movie did."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Or anyone who didn't make an inquiry of "is this auction thing legit?", following that tweet.

I mean, I get the argument to be had of "Well, if it isn't for sale, say in advance it isn't for sale. Save us some work." But I don't think it's a "Fuck you" in the face of the people who did the work, IMO.

I mean, I just find the whole thing fascinating, and think it'll be interesting to watch this year to see how it works. Bob Weinstein did the math and said the film on tour has the possibility of having the highest per screen average in history. That's truly fascinating to me.

I guess I just don't believe in "dick moves" in the Film Industry.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 05:19 PM

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33. "Okay, so I just got home from work and saw the Tweets."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

He's delusional if he thinks he's in the right here. I realize it's the film industry and who gives a fuck, but he MUST have known it was going to piss literally every studio off. He never once tweeted that he was self-distributing, and since no other filmmaker of his stature has ever done it, why the fuck would anyone think when he tweeted there'd be an auction that it was a joke? No one in the modern history of Hollywood has ever "made a joke" like that, LOL.

It's all silly, but at the end of the day, he either knew it would make everyone mad or he's severely out of touch. Anyone and their cousin who follows film festivals closely, much less participates in them, knows how they work.

He's acting coy and ignorant as if this will make people less mad. To the studios, this will read as understandable as "I tweeted 'I will give away a million dollars at Sundance.' I never SAID that it WOULDN'T be Monopoly dollars. Leave it up to the bogus press for spinning the words I didn't write! My point has been proven!" lol

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18759 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 08:04 AM

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59. "here's the fully unedited tweet stream"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Or rather, edited into the essay it was. I agree with Longo. You say you're going to pick your distro in an auction, in the room, that means you're selling it.

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/01/kevin_smith_twitter.html

In the Tweet that launched a thousand angry bloggers, I VERY specifically said " ... I plan to pick my distributor in the room — auction style..." Then, EVERYONE ELSE said I was selling the movie. But I never said that. Very specific wording. Then, I watched as lots of bloggers turned it into "He says he plans to sell the film in the room." So, if you're mad that I didn't live up to a story that I actually really didn't tell ... well, that's kinda my whole point about the press. Ta-da ... I'm just reaching back to an old model from Hollywood's glory days: we're taking our show on the road. GONE WITH THE WIND (which this movie certainly ain't) didn't open on 2600 screens; it opened on one. And played there for awhile. Then packed up & moved to another screen in another city to play there for awhile. We're compressing that process, of course, doing only one screening per night on the tour, but it's their idea, not mine. And the highlight of my light last night was talking to Bob Weinstein at the party after the screening. As @TheJonGordon & I explained our plan, Bob said "You're 4-walling. That's what me & Harvey did in the beginning." To which I said "That's why we call it The Harvey Boys." Then, in true Bob fashion, he instantly did the math on our Radio City Music Hall premiere to tell us we could have the highest per screen average ever. He saw the flick this morning & we spoke again. He loved it; said really nice things about me as a director. Then, in true Bob fashion, he added "If it were mine, I'd tell you take 10 minutes out." It was awesome. It was like being recognized as an adult by your Dad.

But taking our show on the road isn't a new idea. I've taken all of my movies on the road for promotional tours. Only difference is, this time around, we're charging for tickets. And if that price is too high for you, don't worry: you'll be able to see the flick for a lot less on October 19th. But with this tour, our aim is to get financially whole. I want to use actual, recognizable math on our little $4mil flick. Once we clear $4mil (off the tours, the merch, the ViewAskew Garage Sale), we're able to give our investors their money back. So long as we don't spend on marketing, every penny after that becomes profit. No more of this "The movie cost $4mil to make but needs to earn $50mil at the box office to break even." That ALWAYS bugged me: I'd got out of my way to make flicks for as little as possible, then watch folks spend more to market it. But that's how the business works: EVERYBODY does that. It is the standard. And I've done it, too; for 9 films now. So after doing it the same way for 9 times, you start to think about how you'd do it differently: is it possible to sell a flick WITHOUT spending any of that money? With a budget so low, why not try? Shit, just to change it up a bit. For years, bloggers told me I was tired for doing so many Askewniverse flicks. You hear that enough, it sinks in. No artist wants to be called tired, y'know?

So with only 1 flick left that I want to make, I figure why NOT gamble a bit. Because, like I said: if this works out the way we're hoping, we'll have a model we can use with not only HIT SOMEBODY, but any SModcast Pictures we make after it — which would be YOUR flicks, not mine. I've told my stories in film already & I get to tell way more inventive stories every week on all the @SModcast Network shows. But I love being involved with flicks so I figure "Why not help OTHER cats get THEIR flicks out there." If we can build SModcast Pictures into a brand — the way Harvey & Bob made the Miramax name stand for a specific kind of film — then it can become a kind of no-budget service label for flicks we feel fit our ethos or can't find love elsewhere in the world. Indie flicks need special handling, and what we're doing with RedState is simply special-handling it ourselves. And, yes — I'm aware there's lots of bile for me & the flick in the blogosphere right now. But there was lots of bile for me in the blogosphere last week, too. And last year. And the year before that. That was never gonna change. But here's what I've spent the night & morning reading instead: the Twitter feed — where there's been so much enthusiasm & youthful exuberance & zeal for the idea of self distribution, I'll be honest: I've rolled a couple tears. I'll tell you what I'll never forget about Sundance 2011: as I left the stage last night, a couple 20-something dudes followed along in the hallway, saying the dug the flick. Then one of them nearly knocked me dead when he said, with all the earnestness & passion of indie film incarnate "You can do this." And normally I'd say I was just stoned, but since I was THC-free that day, I tell you this not from a stoner, "Hey, maaaann ... " free association, but as something that - in that brief moment — was about as real as raincoats: that kid was a thinner, better-looking, more-pussy-getting version of me, circa '94. And 1994 didn't say "You fucking idiot! Do what everyone else does and sell your flick & spend to open it!" 1994 kinda said "Skate, fucker ... " knowing full-well that if I pull this off, it's gonna be easier for him to get HIS flicks out there. That moment meant the world to me; I'll take it to my grave.

I was telling @JenSchwalbach this morning: it's almost as if, 17 years ago, I came to this same place, and two roads diverged in a yellow wood. Cliche, I know - just lemme finish. So I chose a path that made ALL the difference. And 17 years later, this festival, universe, they all blessed (or possibly cursed) me with the chance of a lifetime: take the OTHER road instead to see what happens. And NOBODY can fault me for doing so, because a) I'm doing it incredibly financially responsibly, b) I'm not asking for help from anyone but the cats who wanna either see this flick or see this model work. c) I did it as entertainingly as possible. For years, I've read "He's no filmmaker." Turns out they were right: I'm more of an entertainer. And any entertainer worth their salt goes out on the road with their art. There was a Tweet last night that called SModcastPictures and the RedStateTour "punk rock filmmaking". I LOVED that. I co-opted Jello Biafra's "Don't hate the media; become the media" for our RedStatement. But what I dug most about the sentiment? It made me feel like I was 23 again. Folks can write what they like, but as an artist, I'm cosmically invigorated & full of piss & vinegar. THAT'S where bold art comes from. They bitched at me for being complacent or for making something as sappy & mainstream. Everything about RedState is the opposite of that... and they're still bitching. And if this was still 1994, and the only way I could find out what people thought of what we did/are doing was by reading reviews or articles, I'd feel bummed that there wasn't more support from a media that bitches about lameness/sameness all the time. But it's 2011 - and via @Twitter, I can INSTANTLY find out how the people who wanna come see the flick or support the cause actually feel.

And I can't thank you all enough for what I've read on this feed all night & today. And I apologize to every Tweeter over the course of the last few months who ever Tweeted "Why don't you just distribute it yourself?" It was SO hard to not respond with "THAT'S THE PLAN, BITCHES!" And you KNOW how hard it is for me to keep my trap shut about ANYTHING. But four days into shooting, @TheJonGordon & I had a serious talk about taking it out ourselves; the possibility of building & BUILDING, instead of building & selling. Our point was this: we were having SO much fun answering to no one, creating the life of the film every day, not following a traditional structure. And I'll be honest: fun's hard to come by in this business, because it IS a business. There's lots of money at play. People tend to get brutally serious about shit that doesn't matter. Original ideas get curbed in favor of the tried & true. As risky as folks are with millions of dollars, the risk usually doesn't extend to the flicks, and why should it: there's safety & financial security or prosperity in the familiar. @TheJonGordon & I were both kinda at wit's end with the rigidity of the old way, but RedState brought back the fun. Everything about the way we're going about things forces us to be MORE creative, and it feels awesome just to be doing the same thing differently for a change. It's reinvigorated us — like when Rooster stabs the horse in the leg in TRUE GRIT: RedState is making us run like we've never run before. And as someone who wants to be an artist, it's just the shot in the ass (or the jab in the leg) that I needed. I'm INDIE again — maybe for the first time, even. It's frightening & thrilling. My heart's been racing all weekend. I feel alive! Young! Punk Rock! I feel like Bill Murray at the end of SCROOGED. There's a Taoist proverb that's been rolling around my head since we pulled into Sundance, and it kind of sums up this weekend for me: "To be great is to go on. To go on is to go far. To go far is to return." Well, I've now returned ... and I'm ready to do it all over again.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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xbenzive
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Mon Jan-24-11 05:18 PM

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32. "The Video:"
In response to Reply # 5


          

http://www.slashfilm.com/watch-kevin-smiths-postred-state-sundance-speech/#more-96462

I actually like what he's doing.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 05:49 PM

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37. "Yeah, it is reeeeeal easy to see why he pissed people off, LOL."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

After the "fake auction," calling the people who buy distributing rights "jackasses" who "don't fucking get it" was probably unwise from a PR standpoint. Calling the studios there "fucking lying whores" might not have been wise either.

And for the record, he's really banking on his following being huge if he thinks he can make money distributing his own flick using only Twitter and his podcast as advertising. I'm afraid his understanding of finances and how he spends money and makes money back seems very A+B=C.

Not to mention... he's making people pay 6 to 10 times the amount of money to see this movie? How is going to sell out movie houses with no advertising and that ticket price? Is he taking pics with everyone who goes? Free lap dances? I mean, the movie doesn't look THAT fucking good, and the reviews aren't glowing out of the gate. Not a good sign.

Cop Out, which had Bruce Willis AND Tracy Morgan AND Kevin Smith, had a 30 mil advertising budget and only made 44 mil. He really didn't sell out any screens anywhere, and that was with STARS, and that was with regular ticket prices. Zack and Miri Make A Porno had controversy AND Kevin Smith AND Seth Rogen, had a 25 mil-30 mil advertising budget and only made 31 mil. He didn't sell out any screens anywhere, and that was with STARS, and that was with regular ticket prices.

It's worth trying, yes. It's a noble endeavor presented in an assholish manner, sure. But is it a wise practice? No. Because the movie has to be REALLY good to keep people wanting to see it, and I'm not convinced it is. That's why Gone With The Wind worked, Kevin-- it had stars and spectacle and a massive bestseller it was based on.

The more I think about it, the more he seems like a crazy fat man with a microphone and less like the filmmaker whose early works and whose occasional speeches I enjoy so much.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 05:54 PM

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38. "Well, he's regularly selling out Q&As for the same price."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

So that part I get I suppose.

I mean he sells out theaters in LA daily with his live podcasts. At $20-$30 a head at that. I thought it'd taper off but it hasn't yet. Maybe he's onto something. But this is NOT the way to go about it.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 05:59 PM

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39. "Well, he's also contradicting the efficiency of this business model."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

He's saying "people can go take their movies out on the road again!" He then begs theaters to pick up his film based on his massive Twitter/podcast following.

So he's saying in effect that this business model doesn't work for everyone, it only might work for someone with this very unique fanbase.

And while people would pay lots of money to see him talk, I'm skeptical that they'll pay this much money to see his movie unless he's talking for an hour afterwards. He mentioned getting swag with your ticket, but if the movie sucks, I'm not going to want a fucking RED STATE t-shirt, lol, much less pay 50-75 bucks for the experience.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 10:28 PM

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55. "RE: Well, he's also contradicting the efficiency of this business model."
In response to Reply # 39


          

He will. He puts an ad in front of his new podcasts and states that he will be doing a Q&A after every screening on the tour.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 11:11 PM

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57. "So the movie itself isn't making a profit then."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

If he's donating his time, which is normally 30 bucks per ticket to see him speak if Ryan M is correct, then really it's not the movie that's the draw at all-- it's seeing Kevin Smith.

Not to mention the point still stands that he thinks this will work out for indie filmmakers, when it won't, because there's literally not a single other indie filmmaker that people will pay 30 bucks to hear talk every night.

I'm still not sure Kevin Smith Q&A plus movie plus swag is worth 60 bucks. Especially if it's not a great movie. Plus, they will ROAST him online with the quickness if the movie isn't good, because literally no one wants to pay that much for mediocrity.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Deluge
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64711 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 04:43 AM

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58. "q&a tickets are usually around 50 bucks"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

the places he does them in are usually of a capacity around 2000-3000 people

and he fills them up

if he can fill them up coming up talking about random crap
he most definitely can fill them up doing that plus showing a new film that his whole fanbase has been asking about at these same q&a's for the past 3-4 yrs

and for the new indie filmmakers?
i doubt they'd be spending 4m on a movie
so making back their investment should be a lot easier
and cheaper than 50 a ticket

  

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 05:39 PM

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97. "RE: So the movie itself isn't making a profit then."
In response to Reply # 57


          


>Not to mention the point still stands that he thinks this will
>work out for indie filmmakers, when it won't, because there's
>literally not a single other indie filmmaker that people will
>pay 30 bucks to hear talk every night.
>


Woa there. Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves a little here? We have no idea yet how exactly this tour will go, let alone how he would run it for other film makers. Maybe people would be willing to pay that much if the movie was good, you don't know that, maybe he'll do a q&a on those other tours too. We just have no idea how to look at an idea that far ahead that hasn't even really been fully conceived yet, I'm with you on that this could potentially be a risky move, but don't shit on things that aren't even close to fruition yet.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 05:45 PM

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98. "I wouldn't pay 30 dollars to see The Godfather in theaters."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>
>>Not to mention the point still stands that he thinks this
>will
>>work out for indie filmmakers, when it won't, because
>there's
>>literally not a single other indie filmmaker that people
>will
>>pay 30 bucks to hear talk every night.
>>
>
>
>Woa there. Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves a little
>here? We have no idea yet how exactly this tour will go, let
>alone how he would run it for other film makers. Maybe people
>would be willing to pay that much if the movie was good, you
>don't know that, maybe he'll do a q&a on those other tours
>too.

No one will pay that much for a standard film, especially a low enough budget one that it could conceivably make its money back this way. So literally the only way for him to possibly "sell" the media on this idea working is by making it really about people coming to see him and hear him talk-- the movie is just part of the swag, it's not the draw at all.

> We just have no idea how to look at an idea that far
>ahead that hasn't even really been fully conceived yet, I'm
>with you on that this could potentially be a risky move, but
>don't shit on things that aren't even close to fruition yet.

But Kevin Smith brought this up. He brought up for a long time in that rant how it was important that indie filmmakers get a chance to distribute their films themselves like this--- and then he begged theaters to let him show his because he'd be bringing his special niche audience.

I'm not shitting on the concept, I'm shitting on the execution and the contradictions he's lacing his own argument with.

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 09:25 PM

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103. "RE: I wouldn't pay 30 dollars to see The Godfather in theaters."
In response to Reply # 98
Tue Jan-25-11 09:28 PM by cheesecake

          

>No one will pay that much for a standard film, especially a
>low enough budget one that it could conceivably make its money
>back this way. So literally the only way for him to possibly
>"sell" the media on this idea working is by making it really
>about people coming to see him and hear him talk-- the movie
>is just part of the swag, it's not the draw at all.

Maybe it won't be $30 then, maybe he'll show up for a q&a with the director of whatever film he's distributing for and do a podcast with him/her. So what if he's the draw for the money? He'll still recoup, people will still see the film. See this is my point. We have no idea how he intends to make it work yet, we know somewhat how his own tour will, but he has revealed no concrete plan whatsoever about how he would distribute someone else's film.


>But Kevin Smith brought this up. He brought up for a long time
>in that rant how it was important that indie filmmakers get a
>chance to distribute their films themselves like this--- and
>then he begged theaters to let him show his because he'd be
>bringing his special niche audience.
>
>I'm not shitting on the concept, I'm shitting on the execution
>and the contradictions he's lacing his own argument with.
>

Fair enough. Didn't see his rant, we shall see how it unwinds.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-25-11 10:23 PM

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105. ""6, 8, maybe 10 times a normal ticket price.""
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>>No one will pay that much for a standard film, especially a
>>low enough budget one that it could conceivably make its
>money
>>back this way. So literally the only way for him to possibly
>>"sell" the media on this idea working is by making it really
>>about people coming to see him and hear him talk-- the movie
>>is just part of the swag, it's not the draw at all.
>
>Maybe it won't be $30 then, maybe he'll show up for a q&a with
>the director of whatever film he's distributing for and do a
>podcast with him/her. So what if he's the draw for the money?
> He'll still recoup, people will still see the film. See this
>is my point. We have no idea how he intends to make it work
>yet, we know somewhat how his own tour will, but he has
>revealed no concrete plan whatsoever about how he would
>distribute someone else's film.

That's because he doesn't have a concrete plan. He has some rebellion in his pocket, a dream in his heart, and a massively defensive ego on his sleeve. He thinks he can talk his way into convincing people that this will work for anyone, but that's like a presidential candidate saying "I'm going to balance the budget!" and then econ majors saying, "You can't in this current economic climate." What can he say back? "We'll make it work somehow"? lol

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
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Wed Jan-26-11 12:03 AM

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113. "RE: "6, 8, maybe 10 times a normal ticket price.""
In response to Reply # 105


          


>That's because he doesn't have a concrete plan. He has some
>rebellion in his pocket, a dream in his heart, and a massively
>defensive ego on his sleeve. He thinks he can talk his way
>into convincing people that this will work for anyone, but
>that's like a presidential candidate saying "I'm going to
>balance the budget!" and then econ majors saying, "You can't
>in this current economic climate." What can he say back?
>"We'll make it work somehow"? lol

Dude. Again, you are making definitive statements based off of assumptions. Maybe he does have a plan, maybe he doesn't. Why tell somebody they can't do something before they even lay out a specific plan? I just don't get that kind of attitude. Not saying you can't be right, just saying you have no idea what he's going to do yet taking such a prematurely critical stance. Historically, he's had a good track record, he's been adamant about pointing out that every film he's made has turned a profit (except Jersey Girl maybe?), I personally don't believe he would impulsively put out a project and not do his homework and the math first. But, that's my opinion. Just be careful what you shoot down without hearing the case, that's all.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Jan-26-11 09:52 AM

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121. "But you're merely blindly defending him on faith."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>
>>That's because he doesn't have a concrete plan. He has some
>>rebellion in his pocket, a dream in his heart, and a
>massively
>>defensive ego on his sleeve. He thinks he can talk his way
>>into convincing people that this will work for anyone, but
>>that's like a presidential candidate saying "I'm going to
>>balance the budget!" and then econ majors saying, "You can't
>>in this current economic climate." What can he say back?
>>"We'll make it work somehow"? lol
>
>Dude. Again, you are making definitive statements based off
>of assumptions. Maybe he does have a plan, maybe he doesn't.
>Why tell somebody they can't do something before they even lay
>out a specific plan? I just don't get that kind of attitude.
>Not saying you can't be right, just saying you have no idea
>what he's going to do yet taking such a prematurely critical
>stance.

He detailed very specifically in that video what he's going to do for this film in particular, in terms of release plan and economics, and then he talked about taking similar paths with films in the future. It's connect-the-dots. If he had acknowledged that his films are a special breed because of his following and other films would require other methods of release, then that's one thing. But he didn't say that.

He also has a very simplified view of the economics of the average indie film distributed by a studio, but that's a different topic.

Historically, he's had a good track record, he's been
>adamant about pointing out that every film he's made has
>turned a profit (except Jersey Girl maybe?), I personally
>don't believe he would impulsively put out a project and not
>do his homework and the math first.

If every film of his has turned profit, why would he do this? The answer is because of advertising budgets, neither Cop Out nor Zack and Miri made their money back at the domestic box office. In fact, since Dogma, I think only Clerks 2 made its money back domestically. That's also been his only film since Dogma to receive roundly good reviews.

I believe he's done his math-- but I believe the math he did is simplistic and it doesn't necessarily reflect modern reality of how well a 4 million dollar film with a marketing push (assuming, of course, that the film is good). Small budget indies, especially in the horror/thriller genre, do reeeeeeally well with a decent marketing push. I refuse to believe that with the right trailer and right promos here and there that Red State doesn't reach 30 mil at the box office, which is a profit right there. (Again, this assumes the film is good.)

I think this is more fueled by greed and a desire to stop being viewed as a failure at the box office for the majority of the decade. If he attaches his film to his speaking tour, but he calls the money the movie makes the "box office for Red State," then it could make money back and he sees every dime. Unfortunately, that's like Prince going double platinum in his first week with Musicology, when the reality was he simply attached the price of his CD to his live tour, which recently has done far better than his CD sales. It's a misleading number. Despite the fact that it's grossly misleading, it will allow Kevin Smith to rant and rave about how he was right and this system of indie promotion works, and he made money distributing his movie himself, when in fact he only did what he's been doing-- talking and getting his fans to pay to see him talk.

But, that's my opinion.
>Just be careful what you shoot down without hearing the case,
>that's all.

I heard the case. I watched his proposal in its entirety. I think it's an enormously flawed and misleading case, and even if it succeeds, its numbers in no way indicate that future indie flicks could do roadshow style independent distribution.

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 04:55 PM

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130. "RE: But you're merely blindly defending him on faith."
In response to Reply # 121
Wed Jan-26-11 05:08 PM by cheesecake

          

>He detailed very specifically in that video what he's going to
>do for this film in particular, in terms of release plan and
>economics, and then he talked about taking similar paths with
>films in the future. It's connect-the-dots. If he had
>acknowledged that his films are a special breed because of his
>following and other films would require other methods of
>release, then that's one thing. But he didn't say that.
>


Similar paths? Connect-the-dots? C'mon. bs. You and I have no idea how he would release another film maker's movie. Similar paths is completely subjective. So what if he didn't specifically say that? He can't change any of what he might do based off what he did or didn't say in this one q&a?


>If every film of his has turned profit, why would he do this?
>The answer is because of advertising budgets, neither Cop Out
>nor Zack and Miri made their money back at the domestic box
>office. In fact, since Dogma, I think only Clerks 2 made its
>money back domestically. That's also been his only film since
>Dogma to receive roundly good reviews.



Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
Zack and Miri budget: $24 million

Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
Cop Out budget: $37 million

Taken from Box Office Mojo.


More assumptions made by you? I think so.



>I think this is more fueled by greed and a desire to stop
>being viewed as a failure at the box office for the majority
>of the decade. If he attaches his film to his speaking tour,
>but he calls the money the movie makes the "box office for Red
>State," then it could make money back and he sees every dime.
>Unfortunately, that's like Prince going double platinum in his
>first week with Musicology, when the reality was he simply
>attached the price of his CD to his live tour, which recently
>has done far better than his CD sales. It's a misleading
>number. Despite the fact that it's grossly misleading, it will
>allow Kevin Smith to rant and rave about how he was right and
>this system of indie promotion works, and he made money
>distributing his movie himself, when in fact he only did what
>he's been doing-- talking and getting his fans to pay to see
>him talk.
>
>But, that's my opinion.
>>Just be careful what you shoot down without hearing the
>case,
>>that's all.
>
>I heard the case. I watched his proposal in its entirety. I
>think it's an enormously flawed and misleading case, and even
>if it succeeds, its numbers in no way indicate that future
>indie flicks could do roadshow style independent
>distribution.



Dude, fair enough. However I already acknowledged that I have no issue with your opinion on the release of his own picture here. I take issue with you shooting down how he might distribute SOMEONE ELSE'S film without knowing anything about his model to do that. His own distribution plan for Red State doesn't have to reflect how future indie flicks could do roadshow style independent distribution. Cause' it might be different. What you're saying just strikes me as shooting down someone that is trying something new and potentially healthy. Why don't you just allow yourself to sit back and see what he does before making an opinion?

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 05:15 PM

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131. "HE SAID THIS."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

>>He detailed very specifically in that video what he's going
>to
>>do for this film in particular, in terms of release plan and
>>economics, and then he talked about taking similar paths
>with
>>films in the future. It's connect-the-dots. If he had
>>acknowledged that his films are a special breed because of
>his
>>following and other films would require other methods of
>>release, then that's one thing. But he didn't say that.
>>
>
>
>Similar paths? Connect-the-dots? C'mon. bs. You and I have
>no idea how he would release another film maker's movie.
>Similar paths is completely subjective.

He said in the video that this is the way he wants to bring back the "true" indie film, through this style of distribution. I'm not assuming-- I'm going off of what he told me.

>>If every film of his has turned profit, why would he do
>this?
>>The answer is because of advertising budgets, neither Cop
>Out
>>nor Zack and Miri made their money back at the domestic box
>>office. In fact, since Dogma, I think only Clerks 2 made its
>>money back domestically. That's also been his only film
>since
>>Dogma to receive roundly good reviews.
>
>
>
>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>Zack and Miri budget: $24 million
>
>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>Cop Out budget: $37 million
>
>Taken from Box Office Mojo.
>
>
>More assumptions made by you? I think so.

You have no clue how film economics works if you see that and think those films turned a profit at the domestic box office.

In fact, the ENTIRE POINT of Smith's tirade is each movie has a bare minimum 20 mil added on to advertise and distribute a film to the masses. The general rule of thumb is usually they spend roughly what they spent on the movie as the advertising budget. So double the reported budget, and that's the REAL budget.

So really, even if it's the barebones advertising package, the numbers look more like this:

>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>Zack and Miri budget: $44 million
>
>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>Cop Out budget: $57 million

And that's assuming that they did the bare minimum work advertising those films for their wide releases. Odds are, it's far more likely that it looked like this.

>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>Zack and Miri budget: $50 million
>
>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>Cop Out budget: $70 million

It's odd that you cited Smith saying that his films all make money when the whole reason he's doing this, as he says, is because films cost way more than are reported and it's so fucking hard for a movie like one he makes to turn a profit.

Watch that video, and do some research as to how reported budgets contrast versus actual budgets, and then make patronizing attempts at how I'm "assuming" everything here.

The only reason Smith's movies made money, as I'm sure he reported, is on DVD sales, which is how studios ALWAYS make their money back. Unless it's Paranormal Activity or Blair Witch, you're really rarely going to go into the green on a film until it hits homes. That's probably why he says his films make money, yet he laments how they never make money at the box office.

But then again, I'm only assuming. I clearly have no clue what I'm talking about.

>>I think this is more fueled by greed and a desire to stop
>>being viewed as a failure at the box office for the majority
>>of the decade. If he attaches his film to his speaking tour,
>>but he calls the money the movie makes the "box office for
>Red
>>State," then it could make money back and he sees every
>dime.
>>Unfortunately, that's like Prince going double platinum in
>his
>>first week with Musicology, when the reality was he simply
>>attached the price of his CD to his live tour, which
>recently
>>has done far better than his CD sales. It's a misleading
>>number. Despite the fact that it's grossly misleading, it
>will
>>allow Kevin Smith to rant and rave about how he was right
>and
>>this system of indie promotion works, and he made money
>>distributing his movie himself, when in fact he only did
>what
>>he's been doing-- talking and getting his fans to pay to see
>>him talk.
>>
>>But, that's my opinion.
>>>Just be careful what you shoot down without hearing the
>>case,
>>>that's all.
>>
>>I heard the case. I watched his proposal in its entirety. I
>>think it's an enormously flawed and misleading case, and
>even
>>if it succeeds, its numbers in no way indicate that future
>>indie flicks could do roadshow style independent
>>distribution.
>
>
>
>Dude, fair enough. However I already acknowledged that I have
>no issue with your opinion on the release of his own picture
>here. I take issue with you shooting down how he might
>distribute SOMEONE ELSE'S film without knowing anything about
>his model to do that. What if he takes a film, does a roadshow
>style distribution initially with him doing q&a's with the
>film maker, then it ends up being picked up and distributed on
>a bigger scale? You see, we just don't know. What you're
>saying just strikes me as shooting down someone that is trying
>something new and potentially healthy. Why don't you just
>allow yourself to sit back and see what he does before making
>an opinion?

But if that's the case, then the indie flicks themselves aren't making the money-- the audiences are just seeing Kevin Smith! Is Smith just going to be a charity benefactor for the rest of his life, doing what he could be making 30 bucks a ticket sold for free to benefit others? If so, great, I'd be happy to hear it. But unless he's legitimately removing his own profit and he's taking films under his wing, touring with them as a charity case and find a way to financially justify releasing indie flicks into theaters with no stars or names other than his own as distributor and no expenditure on advertising (again, these are HIS WORDS here, just in case you think I'm "assuming"), then may God bless him on his ventures. But it's not just an unproven business model-- from a film business logic standpoint, it's suicide.

If a movie wants to have a 100k budget and make 5 to 10 million on the road with Kevin Smith (assuming he's not taking a cut), then an indie flick can be a mild hit on this system.

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cheesecake
Member since Mar 11th 2003
596 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 06:25 PM

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132. "RE: HE SAID THIS."
In response to Reply # 131
Wed Jan-26-11 06:43 PM by cheesecake

          

>He said in the video that this is the way he wants to bring
>back the "true" indie film, through this style of
>distribution. I'm not assuming-- I'm going off of what he told
>me.
>

Dude, all I'm saying is he has not given you enough information yet to base such a all conclusive argument yet. Again, you might be correct, maybe not. It's possible that his strategy evolve over the course of time. I'm saying let's wait until he actually releases a film as producer/distributor and see what his actual strategy will be.


>>>If every film of his has turned profit, why would he do
>>this?
>>>The answer is because of advertising budgets, neither Cop
>>Out
>>>nor Zack and Miri made their money back at the domestic box
>>>office. In fact, since Dogma, I think only Clerks 2 made
>its
>>>money back domestically. That's also been his only film
>>since
>>>Dogma to receive roundly good reviews.
>>
>>
>>
>>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>>Zack and Miri budget: $24 million
>>
>>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>>Cop Out budget: $37 million
>>
>>Taken from Box Office Mojo.
>>
>>
>>More assumptions made by you? I think so.
>
>You have no clue how film economics works if you see that and
>think those films turned a profit at the domestic box office.
>
>In fact, the ENTIRE POINT of Smith's tirade is each movie has
>a bare minimum 20 mil added on to advertise and distribute a
>film to the masses. The general rule of thumb is usually they
>spend roughly what they spent on the movie as the advertising
>budget. So double the reported budget, and that's the REAL
>budget.
>
>So really, even if it's the barebones advertising package, the
>numbers look more like this:
>
>>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>>Zack and Miri budget: $44 million
>>
>>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>>Cop Out budget: $57 million
>
>And that's assuming that they did the bare minimum work
>advertising those films for their wide releases. Odds are,
>it's far more likely that it looked like this.
>
>>Zack and Miri total domestic gross: $31,457,946
>>Zack and Miri budget: $50 million
>>
>>Cop Out total domestic gross: $44,875,481
>>Cop Out budget: $70 million
>
>It's odd that you cited Smith saying that his films all make
>money when the whole reason he's doing this, as he says, is
>because films cost way more than are reported and it's so
>fucking hard for a movie like one he makes to turn a profit.
>
>Watch that video, and do some research as to how reported
>budgets contrast versus actual budgets, and then make
>patronizing attempts at how I'm "assuming" everything here.
>
>The only reason Smith's movies made money, as I'm sure he
>reported, is on DVD sales, which is how studios ALWAYS make
>their money back. Unless it's Paranormal Activity or Blair
>Witch, you're really rarely going to go into the green on a
>film until it hits homes. That's probably why he says his
>films make money, yet he laments how they never make money at
>the box office.
>
>But then again, I'm only assuming. I clearly have no clue what
>I'm talking about.


>But if that's the case, then the indie flicks themselves
>aren't making the money-- the audiences are just seeing Kevin
>Smith! Is Smith just going to be a charity benefactor for the
>rest of his life, doing what he could be making 30 bucks a
>ticket sold for free to benefit others? If so, great, I'd be
>happy to hear it. But unless he's legitimately removing his
>own profit and he's taking films under his wing, touring with
>them as a charity case and find a way to financially justify
>releasing indie flicks into theaters with no stars or names
>other than his own as distributor and no expenditure on
>advertising (again, these are HIS WORDS here, just in case you
>think I'm "assuming"), then may God bless him on his ventures.
>But it's not just an unproven business model-- from a film
>business logic standpoint, it's suicide.
>
>If a movie wants to have a 100k budget and make 5 to 10
>million on the road with Kevin Smith (assuming he's not taking
>a cut), then an indie flick can be a mild hit on this system.


OK. Fair enough. You know more about the industry figures. I retract my statement. However, if most studio films rarely make their money back only when DVD's are released, then what's the big issue? All he's saying is he doesn't like the fact that it costs $4 mil to make and $20 mil to market. He'd rather just take full control, nothing wrong with that. Who cares if he is the initial draw? Is it not possible that audiences, who have come to see him, are genuinely impressed by the evening's flick, a buzz to grow, and then a wide release? I think it's ok for a first time film maker to have a mild hit, it might launch their careers, no? Again, maybe you will end up being right.

What I'm saying is very simple: he is not releasing films as a producer/distributor yet, probably for a long time to come. You can't form an all conclusive statement based off that one q&a. There is a difference between speculating and making definitive statements. People try things, make mistakes, learn and evolve. He's given us an acorn of an idea, let him flesh it out before saying it's fuckin impossible.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 08:11 PM

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45. "Damn, Fleming's account made it sound like he came out and did this"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

http://splicd.com/TCTiPkzJUDY/182/191

_________________________________________________________________________
The New Shit

twitter.com/LetsStay2Gether

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Mon Jan-24-11 08:54 PM

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46. "It's surprising, and he did stick it to the studios..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

But I think he understands what he did. Dunno what the deal with the backtracking is. Dude owned it live, why not on Twitter?

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 10:05 AM

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63. "I'm not that sorry, it's a fucking film festival. Come see a movie = Eth..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I'm 100% on board with what Smith is doing.

Yeah he was kind of a dick, but I think he's damn serious about wanting to reestablish what it means to make an independent film.

Can't hate on that.

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 11:24 AM

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69. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 11:55 AM

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78. "But he's not doing that though."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>I'm 100% on board with what Smith is doing.
>
>Yeah he was kind of a dick, but I think he's damn serious
>about wanting to reestablish what it means to make an
>independent film.
>
>Can't hate on that.

He's selling tickets for people to see him speak, like he's always done, then showing them a movie.

Literally no other independent filmmaker can or should do this "roadshow" style of distribution/ticket pricing.

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 08:12 PM

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100. "I think the point is that he's trying to show that filmmakers can promot..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

their films better on their own because they know their films and they know what audiences they're trying to hit. I doubt he roadshow with the Q&A is the most important part of the distribution model.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-25-11 10:20 PM

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104. "Okay, but how can they self-market with no money?"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

>their films better on their own because they know their films
>and they know what audiences they're trying to hit. I doubt he
>roadshow with the Q&A is the most important part of the
>distribution model.

Even if Kevin Smith decides he's gonna take indies under his wing with his distribution label (if it takes off at all), he's not going to give films the 15-20 mil they need to market their own movie blindly. Indie filmmakers are NOT advertising execs or marketing experts-- if they don't have a built-in fanbase, it doesn't matter if they know their film better than anyone, they won't be able to garner attention!

Literally the only way it can even begin to work is if the movie is really good and it has a compelling hook. Exit Through The Gift Shop was essentially self-distributed-- but once again, there was a famous name attached.

Until a no-name actually achieves this on their own, then the business model of Blair Witch/My Big Fat Greek Wedding/Clerks is a better business model. And Kevin Smith doing this Q&A roadshow won't prove his "point"-- it'll just prove people like hearing him talk.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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14. "I try to defend this guy at all turns."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he's a genius marketer who found a niche. His podcasts, while repetitive, are very entertaining and he's making a living off of them. Some of the best shit he does is TALK. He's hyped Red State up to huge levels...which has made me want to see it much more than I thought I would.

That said, I had a friend at Sundance working hard to acquire films. Dude gets zero sleep because of it. And I can't stand behind this decision 100%. I'm cool with him trying a new model, but wasting peoples time, energy, efforts, and money to get his new movie under their belt is just wrong. No matter how he feels about the industry, how slighted, how betrayed, whatever...these are people...not corporations...he's fucking over.

It still sounds like a cool flick and I'll see it. Doubt I'd pay to see it with the Q&A and all that. I can wait til October. But it's an interesting model I wish he would have divulged at the start of this nonsense.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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shockzilla
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19. "he's going door-to-door with jay?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

stomping out people who don't wanna watch it?

  

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Tiger Woods
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35. "he held up this sign I guess:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/KEvin-Smith-dick-tastes-funny.jpg


this guy

  

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cereffusion
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36. "classy"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
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42. "It's a Kevin Smith presentation. Did cats really think they were going"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

to get anything less?

Fuck all the talk about "professionalism," in a place where all matters of shit goes down, why is this a big deal?

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The New Shit

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cereffusion
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49. "^^really likes mallrats"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

  

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Marauder21
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62. "Mallrats>>>>>>>>The Town"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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cereffusion
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64. "is that shock posting?"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

kevin smith is a d-level director, no offense.

  

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Marauder21
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65. "Just a homer for Mallrats"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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B9
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66. "but he stink palmed Stan Lee..."
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

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Marauder21
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67. "Mallrats has too much nostailgaic appeal for me to think straight about ..."
In response to Reply # 66
Tue Jan-25-11 10:48 AM by Marauder21

  

          

I admit this, it was filmed here (like, a few minutes from the house I grew up in), so there's that. I actually used to work in that mall, though it tragcally/wonderfully was renovated a few year ago and now looks nothing like the plastic suburban hellscape it was in Mallrats.

Kind of like The Town for Cere.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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cereffusion
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72. "I enjoyed the Town yes"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

but I don't think I've been extra vocal about it or anything.

  

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ZooTown74
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68. "^^^ Cried because Grown-Ups didn't get any nominations"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

And NOPE it's not better than Mallrats or Kevin Smith, so shut up

_________________________________________________________________________
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cereffusion
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71. "i fucking hated grownups"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

kevin smith isnt much better!

  

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ZooTown74
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73. "^^^ Lying"
In response to Reply # 71
Tue Jan-25-11 11:29 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

U AIN'T GOTTA LIE TA KICK IT CRAIG

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cereffusion
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74. "yawn"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
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75. "^^^ Started a fight he can't finish"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

TAP OUT DOGGIE

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cereffusion
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76. "is this real or pretend"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
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77. "For someone who hates Kevin Smith you're responding awfully fast"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

to the posts in here

_________________________________________________________________________
The New Shit

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also on Facebook

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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79. "Cere's upset because his role in Grown Ups got cut."
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

He played Kevin James' twin brother.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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cereffusion
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81. "it was filmed around here. a friend of a friend was an extra. "
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

  

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cereffusion
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80. "i didnt say I hated him, and why wouldnt I?"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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40. "It's a great idea but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(no disrespect) I just wish it were a stronger filmmaker than Kevin Smith doing this.

Wishing him all the best, though.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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lfresh
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86. "^^"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>(no disrespect) I just wish it were a stronger filmmaker than
>Kevin Smith doing this.
>
>Wishing him all the best, though.

but he does have his charm and i'm not sure a stronger filmmaker would do better because this doesn't seem to be about film but about self promotion
hrm
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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simpsycho
Member since May 29th 2007
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41. "The idea of a tour sounds cool"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-24-11 07:31 PM by simpsycho

  

          

I don't know if I'd pay ten times the price of a regular ticket but if they can make it a worthwhile experience that you can't get at a multiplex then they might be on to something.

It reminds me of the music industry. You can buy a cd and get the music but the live show is an entirely different experience and some people are willing to pay more than ten times the price of a cd to see certain artists perform live. Hell, some artists make most of their money off of touring and merch. I'm very interested to see if the same model can be applied to the film industry.

There's one thing I'm curious about: Does he have to worry about the MPAA initially? Does it have to have a rating when he takes it out on tour or could he show whatever cut of the movie he wants?

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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43. "Nah I don't think so."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Distribution is what you care about in re: the MPAA. Theaters won't show NC17 flicks, so people actually care about getting the R. Initially he won't have to care. Then again, I don't think the film will get that rating anyway, based on what I've read.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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44. "it's really this simple;"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

this movie had better be badass

  

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Frank Longo
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47. "Yep. Here is where the quality of the film really comes into play."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Because while viewers might see a shit movie for 10 bucks and shrug it off, they in no way will see a shit movie for 50+, swag be damned.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Mon Jan-24-11 09:18 PM

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48. "It was all good just a decade ago."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-24-11 09:18 PM by ricky_BUTLER

          

Post-Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, basically everything he's done has either been a commercial and / or critical failure, right?

I get that he's never been a talented director (writer is at least more debatable), but I don't recall a bigger artistic and public fall from grace in recent memory.

  

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cereffusion
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51. "plus he cant fit on airplanes. "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

  

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KneelB4Me
Member since Apr 06th 2005
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50. "Unashamed View Askew stan, but I can't ride for this..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I love the idea of distributing it himself, and understand his reasons for doing so, but I can't cosign wasting people's time. Yeah, he can play around with words all he wants but people had an understanding that the film would be up for auction at Sundance, and whether or not he intentionally planted that idea, we can all be reasonably certain he was at least aware of it.

He's saying Hit Somebody will be his last movie, but if Red State doesn't do what he thinks it will, he's gonna have to put on his dick-sucking kneepads to get it done.



"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain

www.twitter.com/lexlamont

  

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Tiger Woods
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52. "he's like Bret Hart "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

pretty good, never godawful, but never ever as good as he thought he was.

Shawn Michaels is the Tarantino to Kevin Smith's Bret; the former did everything as well as the latter thought he could do.

  

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KneelB4Me
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56. "Damn, perfect analogy"
In response to Reply # 52


          

"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain

www.twitter.com/lexlamont

  

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cereffusion
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61. "shawn michaels was more original. "
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

and he knows he's sexy.

  

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bshelly
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54. "nice. hope it works for him."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

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B9
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60. "Sometimes, pot is really not good for self-awareness"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The wall he is building around himself is embarrassing and I think he's using the weed to justify not giving a shit about it. I'm sure he can operate within a certain scale that his economy won't suffer, but it's going to get smaller and smaller if he keeps up with this path.

My 2 cents.



And naming a non-political movie Red State and claiming to be unaware of how that could be misconstrued is either really smart to get un-informed PR buzz from the conservative media or really tongue-in-cheek and sorta cheap.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-25-11 11:26 AM

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70. "his interview on the Marc Maron was REALLY defensive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it was a good interview (too long though), and I don't disagree with most of his points (especially the airline stuff), but after he goes on about how at peace he was and how nothing bothers him anymore he whines about critics and the airline in a way that shows he never gets over anything.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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82. "This is why I've turned away from him recently:"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

>but after he goes on about how at peace he was and how
>nothing bothers him anymore he whines about critics and the
>airline in a way that shows he never gets over anything.

He used to be great to listen to because of how self-deprecating he was. Now, he does so much complaining about studios/critics/Southwest Airlines again and again that regardless of whether he does or not, it seems like he takes himself way too serious.

Not giving a fuck about critics isn't talking all the time about how wrong they are and you don't give a fuck. Not giving a fuck is shrugging your shoulders, not tweeting or ranting about it, and moving on with your life.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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Marauder21
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83. "Hate to say it, but you're right"
In response to Reply # 82
Tue Jan-25-11 12:08 PM by Marauder21

  

          

He's beginning to take himself way too seriously.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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cereffusion
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84. "never good for the morbidly obese"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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93. "And now, fat jokes."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

_________________________________________________________________________
The New Shit

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cereffusion
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99. "he's not fat"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

dont be so sensitive and also get off my nuts.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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107. "Says the anti-Kevin Smith guy in a Kevin Smith post"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>dont be so sensitive and also get off my nuts.

You awfully invested

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cereffusion
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118. "this is a messageboard"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

for posting messages.

  

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lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
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Wed Jan-26-11 10:08 AM

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122. "i think his point is that you are posting alot of them"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

specifically in here
a bit like kevin actually
the repetitiveness and emphatic tone of it
i reiterate
is the point


kevin has become a bit annoying on twitter
its become bitter and angry
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-25-11 01:29 PM

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91. "right, at no point during the interview"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

did he say "But hey, what are you going to do?" which is what he'd say if he truly didn't care, even if he offered his real opinion before that

and not that he's completely wrong about critics, but the way he framed it is like he doesn't understand what critics do. I understand being overly defensive of an art form to people who aren't a part of it, but you also have to meet them halfway too. Not to mention when you make a movie that people don't like, they're going to express disapproval. That's the way it's always worked and it has nothing to do with you. No amount of "But it made money" or "But I was playing to my audience" or "But I don't see YOU making any movies" is going to change that. If you're going to play to a certain audience, then you're gonna have to be comfortable with catching flak from other audiences.

Plus I'm sure at some point during his life he has said some album sucked even though he doesn't do music. Was he out of line?

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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114. "He's still funny and relatively complaint-free on the"
In response to Reply # 82
Wed Jan-26-11 02:11 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

Jay and Silent Bob Get Old podcast

His (quick) story of how his wife let him masturbate (yeah, I know) to her bending over while she was doing her makeup in a mirror (yeah, I know) on a recent episode was pretty fuckin' hilarious

________________________________________________________________________
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cereffusion
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Wed Jan-26-11 09:25 AM

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119. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

what im looking for in life is the image of a morbidly obese jort capri wearing washed-up irrelevant weirdo stroking his dick until he ejaculates.

  

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
21496 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 12:21 PM

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123. "lol"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 12:23 PM

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124. "You're still here! Talking about clothes! Awesome"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

(no homo)

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cereffusion
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Wed Jan-26-11 12:42 PM

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126. "hey, whatever gets you off"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

im a modern man, i accept it.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Jan-26-11 12:45 PM

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128. "TUESDAY AFTERNOON AT THE CERE HOUSEHOLD!"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>a morbidly obese
>jort capri wearing irrelevant weirdo stroking his
>dick until he ejaculates.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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cereffusion
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Wed Jan-26-11 01:02 PM

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129. "she's pregnant. she eats the last of everything."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

  

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B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 01:20 PM

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89. "I kept waiting for Marc to snap on him about the weed"
In response to Reply # 70


          

Instead he just sat back and let him sort of tie his own noose. By the end of that interview, I had made my mind up that I'm pretty much done for life with the dude...but I don't have a ton of twitter followers so it doesn't matter...OR DOES IT!


  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Jan-25-11 01:31 PM

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92. "lol"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

lbut I don't
>have a ton of twitter followers so it doesn't matter...OR DOES
>IT!

  

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bignick
Charter member
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Tue Jan-25-11 11:12 PM

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112. "Yeah. He really came off like a dick at times. "
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

  

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cereffusion
Charter member
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Tue Jan-25-11 12:35 PM

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85. "is he wearing capri-style jorts?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://cdn2.screenjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/kevin-smith-sundance.jpg

where can I get that classy F-U jersey, too?

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Jan-25-11 12:53 PM

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87. "That's actually a "Puck U" jersey"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

And may everyone please note that Cere has moved on to dissing Kevin Smith's clothing

Save it for Oscar night, Mr. Blackwell

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cereffusion
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88. "you're a good reader"
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Jan-25-11 01:09 PM by cereffusion

  

          

and he looks like a fat slob in capri-style jorts. do you wear those as well big guy?

actually, puck u is somehow less classy, too.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Tue Jan-25-11 01:25 PM

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90. "The Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor just posted that the tickets"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for the March 10th screening/Q & A are $39.50 and $65

There are 2 screens inside the Michigan: the historic auditorium and the screening room. The historic auditorium seats 1700; the screening room seats 200. I'm guessing he won't be showing the movie in the screening room...

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cereffusion
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Tue Jan-25-11 01:59 PM

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94. "RE: The Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor just posted that the tickets"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>for the March 10th screening/Q & A are $39.50 and $65
>
>There are 2 screens inside the Michigan: the historic
>auditorium and the screening room. The historic auditorium
>seats 1700; the screening room seats 200. I'm guessing he
>won't be showing the movie in the screening room...


Probably because he won't fit through the door.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-25-11 02:04 PM

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95. "^^^ pot calling the kettle fat"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>>for the March 10th screening/Q & A are $39.50 and $65
>>
>>There are 2 screens inside the Michigan: the historic
>>auditorium and the screening room. The historic auditorium
>>seats 1700; the screening room seats 200. I'm guessing he
>>won't be showing the movie in the screening room...
>
>
>Probably because he won't fit through the door.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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cereffusion
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Tue Jan-25-11 02:05 PM

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96. "i prayed to lose weight and it worked"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

  

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cereffusion
Charter member
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Tue Jan-25-11 08:30 PM

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101. "MALLRATS was an answer on Jeopardy tonight"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

say something about that ZooTown

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 10:31 PM

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108. "^^^ Believes this exercise in trolling is working"
In response to Reply # 101
Tue Jan-25-11 10:35 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

It's actually kinda lazy


That gives me an idea

Let's play, "Choose the Cerffusion Response!"

He will respond to "It's actually kinda lazy" with:

A. ... Just like Kevin Smith's movies! Har har har
B. ... Yeah but... he's fat and wears jean horts. Talk about LAZY! *titter*
C. ... but I watched Jeopardy, you watch Kevin Smith so I'm smarter
D. ... Whatever, Affleck was a star before Kevin Smith
E. (make up your own)

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cereffusion
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Wed Jan-26-11 09:22 AM

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117. "clearly it is working"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

im sorry your taste is terrible.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 12:23 PM

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125. "Yes"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

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cereffusion
Charter member
29598 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 12:43 PM

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127. "I know."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 09:02 PM

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102. "For those saying the model wont work for indie filmmakers..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You guys should take into account the following:

1. No budget filmmaking, where an indie producer/director is given like $100k to make a flick, could easily make its money back if it's good on a roadshow type thing with Kevin Smith behind it, Tweeting and hyping it. Why? Cause they WOULD charge normal prices to see it on a roadshow.

2. His audience GOES to this shit. Vulgar, Small Town Gay Bar, etc. all made some cash eventually because of his name. If he's a producer or involved at all, he can get people to go. Again, only based on his name and a regular price to see it at colleges or whatever.

The model COULD work. Just not for a 4 mil movie by a person nobody knows.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 10:24 PM

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106. "Right, it has to be cheap as fuck with Smith in tow and regular ticket p..."
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

That's a lock to make money.

But if Smith's not at the screening, and he's trying to charge between 6 and 10 times the normal ticket price? He's delusional, lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 10:37 PM

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110. "I dunno, $65 is pretty steep for someone in college"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

That's what he's charging at the aforementioned Michigan Theater screening, even with a Q & A and giveaways... but we shall see...

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The New Shit

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 11:11 PM

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111. "Right, but that's not what I'm saying."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

I'm talking about the model for OTHER people's films. His Q&As sell out regularly....not just college students go. He'll be fine. But regardless, I'm not saying anything about that.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Jan-25-11 10:35 PM

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109. "Wait -- Kevin Smith still has defenders? BWAHAHAHAHAH"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



Grow the fuck up, seriously


He's a complete fucking joke and a loser on all
levels


Everything he does, everything he stands for,
everything he represents


He's a fucking joke


He is not a good writer


He is not a good director


He is not funny


He is not smart


He is not savvy


He doesn't know anything


Just give up and find another champion

  

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cereffusion
Charter member
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Wed Jan-26-11 09:26 AM

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120. "^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

  

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SankofaII
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30751 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 02:58 AM

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115. "man fuck him old low budget ass hack"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

going off on people and his film probably shittier than Ishtar in 3D...

#hardbodyfail

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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RetroName
Member since Mar 21st 2003
1832 posts
Wed Jan-26-11 08:41 AM

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116. "did he already record any podcast episode about it?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'd love to hear it.

____________________________

<--- One of those days...

  

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jigga
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31583 posts
Thu Jan-27-11 03:22 PM

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133. "Not a big horror fan but the trailer looks a lot better than I expected"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seattle is the last stop on the tour & screens at a place I could walk to from my crib but I think I'll take my chances & try to catch it on cable later on.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Thu Feb-03-11 09:26 AM

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134. "Man on Wire director James Marsh shits on Kevin re: Sundance behavior"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

swiped and linked

James actually says Kevin's name, not the stuff in parenthesis, which is the work of the cat who wrote the article. The article is from Movieline; Another link has the actual video of James talking shit...

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Sundance-Interview-James-Marsh-Talks-Project-Nim-And-Criticizes-Kevin-Smith-22857.html


>Oscar-Winner Doesn’t Like That One Director You’re Also Tired Of

Man on Wire director James Marsh had harsh words recently for a certain self-obsessed hack filmmaker who shall not be named. The cretinous slob known for such films as $27,000 Black-and-White Gonzo Exercise, Quasi-Deep Religious Half-Comedy, Ben Affleck’s Second-Worst Pile of Crap After Gigli and Stunning Flop About Porn earned the Oscar-winner’s scorn at the Sundance Film Festival, where both men premiered new work — but where only one of them embarrassed himself with an execrable dog-and-pony show, a distribution-auction hoax, and a subsequent stream of self-aggrandizing gibberish on Twitter.

While discussing his fine new documentary Project Nim with Cinema Blend, Oscar-winner James Marsh candidly riffed on the corpulent narcissist twat behind Mediocre Politically-Tinged Horror Film. Like most of the rest of the industry observers in Park City, Marsh expressed dismay over the vaguely talented clown’s promotional antics and bloviating, self-pitying tendencies:

“You can’t try to control response to your film, nor should you. …Unless you’re (a certain despicable, hockey-stick wielding cult demigod), I guess. Whole other story. What’s his problem, anyway? Why (does he have a chip on his shoulder)? He’s had such a great run. You know, he’s not Orson Welles. And, I mean he gets his films made, he’s rich… he’s got money… Now he turns around and says suddenly, ‘I’m so hard done?’ What’s his f*cking problem?”

“He should be so f*cking lucky. It makes me so mad to have someone doing that. It’s wrong. It’s a total hypocrisy. He’s had loads of films made, and most of them are sh*t, quite honestly. I mean, I shouldn’t say that… Films are quite hard to make and anyone who does needs our respect, but… I have a big problem with all of this self-promoting narcissism.

“(To camera) Maybe the films aren’t very good, (tedious wanker). You can’t have the kind of career he’s had and turn around and start complaining about it. There are many other… can I say it… vastly better filmmakers who haven’t been able to make as many films as him. So, you know, be a bit more f*cking humble.”

To say nothing of coaxing every distributor at the festival to the world premiere of his endlessly hyped acquisition title You Paid WHAT to Get In Here?, only to stage a fake auction and buy the film’s rights his slovenly damn self for $20.

Anyway, if Twitter crashes on you this morning, it won’t be because of Egypt news or Australia news or US weather-emergency news. It’ll be because a 40-something baby in New Jersey woke up with a diaper full of crap and won’t stop wailing, 140 characters at a time, until it’s changed. Be prepared.

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Feb-03-11 09:50 AM

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135. "He's absolutely right. And Man on Wire >> any Smith film."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

So it's not like some bitter douche less talented asshole complaining. This is a guy who made easily one of the best documentaries of the last several years.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Thu Feb-03-11 09:52 AM

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136. "That is the ugliest article I've ever seen."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

Who wrote that, Perez Hilton?

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Thu Feb-03-11 09:53 AM

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137. "Well sure, it's Cinemablend. But Marsh's point still stands."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18759 posts
Thu Feb-03-11 10:41 AM

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138. "huh; they must have edited it"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

because the article at the link has none of that nasty shit in it.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Mar-06-11 07:56 PM

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139. "Night 1: $161,590"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Mar-06-11 07:56 PM by SoulHonky

          

Sold 3800 seats of the 6000 capacity.

On the bright side, if he can maintain this pace, he'll reach his goal of having the film half paid off (wants 2 mil of the 4 million dollar production budget) by the time the general release rolls around.

http://www.indiewire.com/article/2011/03/06/kevin_smiths_red_state_tour_kicks_off_at_radio_city

On the downside, I hope he got a deal on Radio City Music Hall. A quick google search found that someone rented the hall for a night in 2008 for 120,000 dollars. That knocks his take home to just 40k which is not going to get the job done. Also, if he can only get 3800 in NYC, I wonder how many people will be willing to shell out the cash to see him in smaller places (or maybe smaller places will be better since there it'll be the thing to do as opposed to one of the many events in the Big Apple.)



----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Deluge
Charter member
64711 posts
Sun Mar-13-11 06:38 PM

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140. "3800 ppl is a lot for what it is IMO"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Sun Mar-13-11 08:10 PM

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141. "He said 1700 seats was their break even."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

So that means 2100 of those tickets were profit.

2100 * 60 = 126,000 of profit. Pretty good, I'd say.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Tue Apr-19-11 10:40 AM

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142. "RED STATE, post tour, pre wide release is already in the black"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://theredstatements.com/2011/04/18/qt-and-me/

*quote*

Over the course of the 15 shows of the Red State USA Tour, we made almost one million dollars from ticket and merchandise sales. A few times, we had the highest per screen average in the country. We started out with a record-making show at Radio City Music Hall and went on to average 1100 people per screening. Had we booked ourselves into smaller houses, we could’ve SOLD OUT every show; but being in the larger houses cost us nothing extra.

And apparently, we managed to pull 1100 a night solely from our podcasts: when asked nightly if they heard about the show from a show at SModcast.com, an overwhelming 85/90% of the audience indicated yes (Jon swears it was 100% in Seattle). That bodes well for SIR.

You take what we made on the tour, you add that to the $1.5mil we’ve pulled in from foreign sales thus far (with a few big territories yet to sell). Add to that $3mil we’re on the verge of closing for all North American distribution rights excluding theatrical (which means VOD/HomeVideo/PayTV/Streaming).

The flick cost $5mil to make, but $4mil after the California tax incentive. One of the only things Jon and I promised the Red State investors in exchange for letting us handle American theatrical distribution ourselves was that their $4mil would be covered as soon as possible – something very few other production entities can promise or even offer. Invest a million dollars in almost any production, and you rarely if ever get your money back within five years, let alone the one year it’s looking like it’s gonna take for our guys to make their money back.

Add up all those figures above and you’ll notice our gains are higher than our spending. And without any dopey marketing figures to have to recoup, once we close the aforementioned deals (which Jonn Sloss & LawCo are working to close as we speak), simple math dictates Red State is in the black – long before any wide release. That’s music to the ears of any investor who only put up their money in September.

Ta-da!

Y’know what else is kinda sweet? Those $3million in deals I was talking about? That only materialized because our little movie went out and performed well. See, any idiot can lie and write hyperbolically (and high scholastically) about a movie’s future and its maker’s sanity all they want at 20,000 feet. But in the real world, when movie and maker put asses in seats and money in the bank – all without spending anything on marketing? I don’t know what the technical business term is for it, but I’m pretty sure it’s not “imploding”.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Melanism
Charter member
20451 posts
Tue Apr-19-11 01:20 PM

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143. "#WINNING"
In response to Reply # 142


          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Apr-19-11 03:33 PM

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144. "And again, I reiterate, they're not paying to see the movie."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

They're paying to see him.

It's like when Prince made everyone buy a copy of Musicology on CD when he did his Musicology tour, and it went platinum in one week. Well, no, I'm sorry Prince, but they just wanted you and were willing to pay enough to see you that it justified throwing the CD in.

I had multiple friends go see it already. They said it's alright at best. They also said they wouldn't have gone out of their way to see it if Smith wasn't going to be there himself personally.

Furthermore, I reiterate again, unless Smith is going to tour with every movie he produces, the system won't really pay off. If he funds someone else's cheap film and roadshows it this way, like he indicated at Cannes, I wonder if he'll tour with it. And if he doesn't, when it fails, I wonder what his blog will say.

Like, I'm glad that roadshow format still works and can put butts in seats for SOMETHING, even if it requires a massively popular internet celebrity filmmaker with a rabid fanbase to make it work... but again, it's *only* working because he's attaching it to a Kevin Smith Talks show.

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16125 posts
Tue Apr-19-11 03:59 PM

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146. "Yeah, i really don't see this becoming a big trend. "
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

He might have added fuel to the indie directors. bit for mainstream actors/studios/directors/production companies.

This won't fully work, it takes too much commitment from one or more persons involved in the project to ride around for it.

¿If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-19-11 04:26 PM

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148. "And it wouldn't work with nearly any actor who'd be in an indie too."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

I mean, regardless of the fact that no big-name actor would really take that time commitment, what actor would sell out everywhere across the country like this? Dustin Hoffman wouldn't. Jim Carrey wouldn't. Hell, I'm pretty certain Jack Nicholson wouldn't.

Unless it's some wildly popular stand-up who agrees to ALSO do a set, no one would sell these venues out. No indie directors would either.

Also, I agree with magilla that there's a certain amount of spin that one should expect from Smith with these numbers. He staked the rep of the rest of his career on this claim, you think he'd come out and say ANYTHING other than "fuck the critics"?

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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Tue Apr-19-11 04:15 PM

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147. "furthermore, he's bullshitting about the marketing costs"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

because that $5 million CANNOT include the hall rental and insurance fees for all of his roadshow stops, PLUS shipping of the film, PLUS two seats on Southwest for his Lunchbox ass.

All that overhead? Guess what, Kev- That's the cost of MARKETING your film, since you're doing this pre-release roadshow leading into a traditional film release.

---------------------------------
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"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
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Tue Apr-19-11 04:29 PM

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149. "He's not funding other people's pictures."
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

>Furthermore, I reiterate again, unless Smith is going to tour
>with every movie he produces, the system won't really pay off.
>If he funds someone else's cheap film and roadshows it this
>way, like he indicated at Cannes, I wonder if he'll tour with
>it. And if he doesn't, when it fails, I wonder what his blog
>will say.

Just distributing completed films. And only taking it if the person can prove that it's been passed on by every studio. Said that at the last Q&A I attended earlier in the month.

An whether they came for him or not, to me doesn't matter. I don't understand how that negates the release model at all. First of all, releasing under SModcatle Pictures or whatever it is will already put asses in seats whether he's there or not. It's sold DVDs, be it DRAWING FLIEW, A BETTER PLACE, VULGAR, etc. Just flying under that banner will bring heads out. On top of that, any film that a up and comer brings through that (in my eyes) wouldn't be coming with even close to that $5 milli budget on their picture. It's not really much different than Flixtour was in the late 90s. Low budget films making it's money back on the road. (for those who don't know about Flixtour: http://www.indiewire.com/article/flixtour_winds_down_after_wobbly_beginnings/)

I just don't understand what's so polarizing about this, other than regular Smith hate. That's all I see.

_
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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-19-11 04:56 PM

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150. "That's not the relevant sticking point."
In response to Reply # 149
Tue Apr-19-11 04:58 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

>>Furthermore, I reiterate again, unless Smith is going to
>tour
>>with every movie he produces, the system won't really pay
>off.
>>If he funds someone else's cheap film and roadshows it this
>>way, like he indicated at Cannes, I wonder if he'll tour
>with
>>it. And if he doesn't, when it fails, I wonder what his blog
>>will say.
>
>Just distributing completed films. And only taking it if the
>person can prove that it's been passed on by every studio.
>Said that at the last Q&A I attended earlier in the month.

The sticking point is unless he's there, people won't come.

>An whether they came for him or not, to me doesn't matter. I
>don't understand how that negates the release model at all.
>First of all, releasing under SModcatle Pictures or whatever
>it is will already put asses in seats whether he's there or
>not. It's sold DVDs, be it DRAWING FLIEW, A BETTER PLACE,
>VULGAR, etc. Just flying under that banner will bring heads
>out.

Vulgar LOST money. Made for an estimated 120k budget, brought in under 16k at the box office. Can't find numbers for the others at the box office, which tells me their releases were so limited that A Better Place almost certainly made under the 40k estimated budget.

(Note: I'm 99% certain the 120k estimate from IMDb for Vulgar is high, but between venue bookings and budget, it's still hard to imagine it was in anything but red before DVD sales.)

I'm aware that Smodcastle is big-- and I honestly really hope they give good movies a chance. But those movies WON'T sell out venues without Smith there in person. And he gave opportunities to little films by his friends and will continue to do so. But to claim it's a viable means of having an indie make money, especially to claim it's more viable than getting distributed by a studio... is lunacy. Which is what he claimed at Sundance.

On top of that, any film that a up and comer brings
>through that (in my eyes) wouldn't be coming with even close
>to that $5 milli budget on their picture. It's not really
>much different than Flixtour was in the late 90s. Low budget
>films making it's money back on the road. (for those who
>don't know about Flixtour:
>http://www.indiewire.com/article/flixtour_winds_down_after_wobbly_beginnings/)

>I just don't understand what's so polarizing about this, other
>than regular Smith hate. That's all I see.

It's not Smith hate-- roadshow distribution is just really difficult to get people excited about. Without some major critic or figure fighting for it as an advocate, or winning some major festival awards, it's impossible to crack 100k at the box office-- and most of the lowest budget films don't. Night Catches Us had major Ebert promotion and won tons of awards, and isn't sniffing 80k at the box office.

You just can't sell a movie well that way. You CERTAINLY won't even SNIFF a million without Kevin Smith on the road with you.

It's not hate-- it's just not a realistic way to distribute films, even really indie ones, and the bombastic way in which he rubbed it in people's faces at Sundance as if to say "This is the best way to do it!" was wildly shortsighted. It seems more like an ego boost for him, blaming the studios for the failures of his last few (not good) films.

I just wish he'd stop whining so much and playing the part of the put-upon guy. He's SO much funnier and more likable when he's being self-deprecating and totally ego-less. It's why his Evenings are funny, and why listening to him talk used to be so fun. And now... it's not as much.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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avionix
Member since Sep 24th 2007
498 posts
Tue Apr-19-11 03:35 PM

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145. "That's really good news for people like me"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

Got a project this summer that I'm about to quit my job and go all-in for. Better today than tomorrow, imo.

#mistycopeland

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Tue Jan-24-12 11:30 AM

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151. "http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/jan/24/kevin-smith-wins-deal-sundanc..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/jan/24/kevin-smith-wins-deal-sundance?newsfeed=true

Just sayin...

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
43745 posts
Tue Jan-24-12 01:23 PM

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152. "The shit worked for him."
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

I'm glad.

I also liked Red State. I hope he continues to do what he wants to do, for better or for worse. I'm a fan though.

But still, he IS delusional if he thinks this will work for someone nobody knows.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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magilla vanilla
Member since Sep 13th 2002
18759 posts
Wed Jan-25-12 02:06 PM

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153. "But, again, HE is touring with the films"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

I'm sure he'll bring the filmmakers along for the ride, but he's still basically signing a big MARKETING deal for him to be the spokesperson for other independent directors. Which on one end is kinda cool, but I doubt any of these films will have legs beyond the tour, which won't be DRIVEN by the directors themselves. It's another ego move for a dude that seriously needs an ego check.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

  

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