* Commentary by director Spike Lee * Commentary by writer/author David Benioff * Deleted scenes * "The Evolution of an American Filmmaker" featurette * "Ground Zero: A Tribute" * Widescreen anamorphic format
i'll finally get to study this movie, because i really didnt get it the first time.
antwone fisher and adapatation comes out too..heard they were good, but i never saw them.
2. "RE: antwone fisher and adapatation comes out too" In response to Reply # 0
"" was a great film. i'd buy that before "".
• Commentary by director Denzel Washington and producer Todd Black • "Meeting Antwone Fisher" featurette • "The Making of Antwone Fisher" behind-the-scenes featurette • "Hollywood and the Navy" featurette • Widescreen anamorphic format
this one caught me off guard, and i have yet to grasp it.
im gonna buy it though cuz im a big spike fan myself, and im giving him the benefit of the doubt. i need to watch this again, and then listen to his commentary as well...maybe he will adress some of the problems i had with it.
11. "i can usually follow spike's themes" In response to Reply # 10
but this one..it bothered me...
something about norton and the whole thing about not being able to survive in prison...as if its not meant for 'them'..because its a place full of animals (read:us)...and 'they' are not suppossed to be in places like that...
i dont know..i really just need to watch it again i think.
the sappy patriotic them bothered me too, but i cannot discount that spike, along with being a black man, a brilliant mind, and an excellent filmmaker, is also a new yorker...so i think i can let that slide.
12. "RE: i can usually follow spike's themes" In response to Reply # 11 Sun May-18-03 03:46 PM
>something about norton and the whole thing about not being >able to survive in prison...as if its not meant for >'them'..because its a place full of animals (read:us)...and >'they' are not suppossed to be in places like that...
I really think you misread this. Ed Norton was a skinny regular joe prettyboy who's just not built for prison. He'll likely end up as someones bitch. In fact more than likely that someone will be Aryan.
i sort of did this in reverse - saw the movie then i read the book. doing so gave me a better understanding of what spike was trying to accomplish with the film.
31. "Thank goodness for Spiderman" In response to Reply # 11
Originally Tobey McGuire was offered the part but it conflicted with Spiderman so he took an executive producer role instead. Can you imagine Toby in Norton's role?
>but this one..it bothered me... > >something about norton and the whole thing about not being >able to survive in prison...as if its not meant for >'them'..because its a place full of animals (read:us)...and >'they' are not suppossed to be in places like that...
38. "Fucking great movie" In response to Reply # 10
I just watched it. Awesome, awesome, awesome. The continuity was still there, the trademark shots, and... just beautiful. I pretty much ignored Rosario Dawson beforehand. Someone said that she *isn't* normally like this, so are there any movies where she is, or has she not developed as well?
I also like Spike's tendency to be open-ended in many of his films, and yet you know it is "the end". I remember reading the book for "Do The Right Thing" where he specifically stated in his contract that there would never be a part 2, and I would assume that this applies to most if not all of his films.
Didn't someone say that his movies are generally too New York-centric? What's wrong with that? Spike Lee is a man that represents his home in much of his work. Even if most people cannot understand some of the ins and outs of NYC, there is an appreciation for the place that gave him his roots. Good or bad, it doesn't matter.
39. "I Have a Question that has been driving me crazy" In response to Reply # 38
When he wrote his name on the window and the Camera focused on the visibility of his name over his face for a few minutes what did that symbolize. My guess is he finally discovered who he is through that dream sequence....the genuine Irish kid from Brooklyn that should have continued playing High School ball and getting an education versus the fast talking drug dealer that sent him up the river. My only flip to that I am confused about is all the people he grew up with took that other role but are still corrupt in their daily lives....I guess I need to see it again.
50. "RE: I Have a Question that has been driving me crazy" In response to Reply # 39
The guilt of the world, and the innocence of writing your name on a window. Young kid writing his name, with no guilt. Older man writing his name, with all the shame in the world. Inside looking out, outside looking in.
20. "RE: too bad all of his stuff wasn't new line cinema." In response to Reply # 16
>i'll be waiting to buy "jungle fever" and "mo better blues" >when they re-release it remastered for anamorphic >televisions...
I want all of his movies done Criterion-style. I have the first batch of books Spike Lee did that were diaries for his movies, and it gave me a different perspective when I went back to watch them, especially "School Daze" and "Malcolm X". Before there were DVD's, you'd have to watch all the interviews (not an easy thing when all you had was HBO and Cinemax) or hunt down the books, which I did.
I also would like to see his early films, as well as a compilation of his music videos, with commentary.
19. "RE: 25th hour dvd comes out tuesday" In response to Reply # 14
The Spike Lee commentary for the most part deals with technical camera oriented lingo. Some insight into the movie is given and how the movie is mostly based from the book, but the commentary isn't too exciting. One good thing about Lee's commentary is how he highlights the musical selections in the movie. Haven't listened to the screenwriter's commentary, so I can't comment on that. The footage from Ground Zero is pretty nice.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
32. "you know what was different" In response to Reply # 22
First off Antoine fisher was amazing, but so was this tough call.
Here's what's missing I think it was the first Spike Lee film I have ever seen where he didn't take some kind of small role in the movie. I miss him popping up unexpectedly. Like when he played the reporter in Summer of Sam or the Free Baser in Crooklyn.
23. "The Transfer is ASS" In response to Reply # 0
I'm not one that is a techie as far as DVD goes. Usually, if I can see the shit and hear it I'm good.
But this isn't gonna fly with me. Not to mention the soundtrack is out of sync at points which I don't remember being the case from the theatrical release
I was really looking forward to this dvd and am disappointed with it. Not to mention they opted out of using the great poster as the cover for the dvd. But now i'm just nitpicking
I'm really upset about the video quality of the transfer on this one. See the scene outside the club for a key example.
Thank god for the fact the film is brilliant and it two commentaries
"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!" -MF Doom
"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback" -Dave
40. "I think that's overstatement" In response to Reply # 23
The first scene is suffering from some intense graininess, but other than that it's on par with most releases these days. It's not the definitive DVD transfer, but it's hardly distracting and works well for the movie.
ok, granted i was a little worked up. but it deserved a better transfer. the first scene is intentionally grainy.
but i found the club exterior shot in the blue light was really distracting to me
on a positive note, the documentary is pretty damn solid
"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!" -MF Doom
"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback" -Dave
30. "saw it for the 1st time yesterday" In response to Reply # 0
I dug it. Everytime I watch a Spike Lee Joint, I remember halfway thru the movie that his movies are very unconventional. I love that about him. I'm gonna watch it again tonight, and maybe with the commentary on Thursday b4 it has to go back. A definite purchase though....
33. "Barry Pepper and Rosario Dawson" In response to Reply # 0
I've seen spike bring Rosario out of her shell, she was the shit as LaLa in He Got Game and she did it again. But damn Barry Pepper stole the show, his acting was so precision.
35. "RE: Barry Pepper and Rosario Dawson" In response to Reply # 33
I wasn't feeling Rosario particularly but at least she isn't given so much to do it becomes distracting. she's just clearly the weakest performer on screen.
barry pepper did some incredible work in this one
but for me, it's brian cox who stole the show. he's got like 5 minutes of screen time and other 5 in V.O. and in that little bit of time he adds so much to the picture.
"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!" -MF Doom
"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback" -Dave
42. "help me understand one scene" In response to Reply # 0
how did you interpret the scene where Ed Norton 'makes' Barry Pepper beat him up, and Barry is bawling? I just did not get that scene at all....tried to decide if it was symbolic or integral to the plot....
P.S. I liked how Monty's being a big baller was rather understated, yet if you had an eye for detail you could tell he was roll-ing. Ex. Coach leather furniture in the crib....ol girl's diamond bracelets...his classic hot rod...very nice touch and unstereotypical
========================================= "i never knew you were a female. i mean not like i was looking but i got the dog in mind so i thought you were some 30 year old white dude lol" --?uestlove replying to my Soul Train post about idolizing Jody Watle
43. "desperation..." In response to Reply # 42 Thu May-22-03 07:37 AM
>how did you interpret the scene where Ed Norton 'makes' >Barry Pepper beat him up, and Barry is bawling? I just did >not get that scene at all....tried to decide if it was >symbolic or integral to the plot....
Monty's logic was that if he went into prison beat up he wouldn't look so "pretty" to the other inmates thus maybe buying him a little time to find a way to not become someones bitch. He seemed to know deep down that it probably wouldn't work but I guess he figured it's worth a shot
46. "RE: Barry brawlin n bawlin" In response to Reply # 42
He's crying cuz he knows his best friend is gettin ready 2 spend the next 7 years of his life in prison/hell. He doesnt know if he's ever gonna see him again. & then on top of that Monty provokes him 2 beat the shit outta him which he really never wanted 2 do in the 1st place. Quite an emotional thing 2 go thru if us ask me.
55. "he *did* want to beat him up" In response to Reply # 46
that's why he's crying - it's an overwhelming mix of emotions.
on one hand, he obviously doesn't want to whip his best friend's ass, but on the other hand, all this shit monty's saying to provoke him is somewhat true. he's wanted to fuck naturelle since he first saw her and he's jealous that monty's been afforded such a nice lifestyle without having to work for it like he has.
mix that in with the fact that, while he's sad monty's going to jail, he kinda, in the back of his mind, thinks he deserves it.
that its just something you *have* to do for a 'friend'...their relationship is unique, he mentions he's known monty longer than any of the rest of them...and i look at the whole movie as a tale of the friendship of all of them...and everything that has been building up over the years coming to a head...there was probably more said and done that night than in all of the previous years of their friendship..combined even...
but the beatdown scene..again...along with the other things you mentioned..it was also done out of love..for a friend.
>that's why he's crying - it's an overwhelming mix of >emotions.
I think he's crying cuz its a fucked up "favor" 2 ask from a friend. He did not want 2 beat Monty up.
>on one hand, he obviously doesn't want to whip his best >friend's ass
of course not
but on the other hand, all this shit monty's >saying to provoke him is somewhat true. he's wanted to fuck >naturelle since he first saw her and he's jealous that >monty's been afforded such a nice lifestyle without having >to work for it like he has.
even so that aint enuff 2 make him wanna beat Monty up
>mix that in with the fact that, while he's sad monty's going >to jail, he kinda, in the back of his mind, thinks he >deserves it.
True he said that but I think he realizes that jail is bad enough. He even says, "What? U think if I give u a black eye they're not gonna mess w/ u in there?" & then asks Jake 2 help him out in explaining this irrational concept.
47. "Much better the 2nd time around" In response to Reply # 0
for me at least
The first time I saw this I was really impressed by certain aspects of this movie (great performances, adressing 9/11, NYC) but somewhat dissapointed at it's lack of an actual plot
upon 2nd viewing knowing what to expect I loved it
54. "upon further review" In response to Reply # 0
spike did a great job with this film. sometimes you have to look atthings minus the veil, and all the preconceived notions/expectations...im guilty of not being able to do that the first time...
i'll talk about some of teh little things that i picked up on in the movie, since most of this discussion has been about the major things...the reason why i like spike as a filmmaker is because he picks up and is able to capture some of the little things that humanizes his movies, as oppossed to a lot of filmmakers who seem to miss the boat..
1st..when natural walked into the bar to meet monty's friends, and the look that she got from everyone in the room, as well as the 'that slut' look she got from the bartender...that was golden...
2nd....immediately following that, the awkward momenmt when the bartender told the group...'you guys should come back for my birthday party on sunday'...and the enusing moment of awkwardness..you just dont see filmmakers concentrating on things like that
3rd..when they were all in the club sitting in the vip section talking, before kostya comes over...you can feel the friendship in the conversation they're having...and then kostya comes ove, and the dynamic of the conversation completely changes, as if a stranger has entered into the world of old friends...
i think spike did an excellent job...however, i never made the attachment of sympathy to monty...although i feel like i understood the film a lot more..i still dont think i connected with him...but in a way..i dont think thats necessarily what the film was aiming to do...
but yeah...im eating my words on this one..this one was good.
"anytime i state an opinion i state it's my opinion, and i back up why i stated the statement (time willing). so please folks you got to understand that it's not a good feeling to read a i'm not on his nuts comment. if i need some attention for my nuts i'll call a jawn." -Quest
66. "i thought it would've made a great" In response to Reply # 64
trailer
it would've given nothing away about the film. set up the characters perfectly and created a major buzz
"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!" -MF Doom
"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback" -Dave
68. "FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT!!!!" In response to Reply # 65
saw it. loved it. i didn't have high expectations for this one, despite the caliber of director and actors. i mean i just never heard much buzz about this one, i guess it just stayed under my radar. couple questions: •i've been trying to make a link between the opening dog scene and the scene where monty asks his best friend to beat him up for his own good.i know its there , someone help me out on this... • then there's the obvious " so what happens in the end? does he go to jail or not?. I'm not gonna ask that. My question is was his father even really saying those things, or was Monty just sort of dreaming it. The movie ends with him sleeping in the car I believe. •To anyone who has read the book, does the story continue beyond what the film covered?
i hadn't made that connection between doyle and monty i'll marinate on it
he went to jail. spike said it. the film says it
another point i hadn't considered. that would make it even more interesting. monty imagining all the things he wished his father would say.
that's why that final monologue strikes me and others who have absent fathers. it's all the things we wish our fathers would say to us. it's a lifetime of love wrapped into a 10-minute masterpiece of screenwriting.
"Cats are still using the same five curse words. If you take out 'shit,' 'bitch,' 'nigga,' murder,' and 'killa,' (the)mother-fuckin' record would sound like an instrumental!" -MF Doom
"The payoff is much sweeter than the payback" -Dave
I always read the opening as some kind of statement on New York itself. Just the things Monty says (I don't remember exact dialogue, but it seemed like everything was about the dog "getting beat down, being left for dead, but still surviving") led me to believe that the opening was some kind of allegory for New York, post-9/11...
And of course, Spike "insomniac's delight" Lee doesn't really say. I didn't listen to the David Benioff commentary all the way through (this was a rental). Did he mention what it was supposed to mean? The only part I remember hearing from him was how the book was optioned by Tobey Maguire, and how this led to Spike getting involved, blah blah blah.
As far as the dog/Monty connection, who's taking Monty in at the end? His father (finally)?
Also, I forgot to mention that Barry Pepper was robbed of a Best Supporting Actor Oscar nomination.
______________________________________________ "Ain't I great?" -Jeff Jarrett
_____________________________________________________________ delete if there is a post, i couldn't find it
Norton saves a life by getting it healed. Norton's friend has to 'save his life' but beating his ass.
That's kind of a parallel. friendship by love and hate.
but really, i don't think it'll wash. cause really norton's friend seemed to be letting out years of frustration with Norton when he kicked his ass, like he was paying him back for all the years of watching Norton do dumb shit and not stepping in. That's how it seemed to me.
And the sequence at the end was so overblown that you knew it had to be just a 'dream like' telling of what the old man was saying, and that it didn't really happen.
My one problem, and it's a small one cause I loved the film, is that the sub-plot between the teacher (hoffman) and the student (paquin) was never resolved. after the kiss in the bathroom they just ended it. and it seemed like the consequences/results were left out.
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