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Subject: "MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"" Previous topic | Next topic
jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 08:56 AM

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"MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""


  

          

Yeah, I know. "here, look at me!" But I really want to understand why countless people think that this is the best album from the roots.

Now, I was dazzled, stupified, and mystified by "You got Me" when it came out like everyone else, and I love "Love Movement.", but after that there were hits and misses. Dont get me wrong, Its a very creative album, its very listenable. Its just that at certain points I just felt that it was.......(pauses, considering onslaught), uneven.


I loved Thought and believed that he just murdered the beats, the mic and whatever else was standing in the vicinity. Malik B, the same. 100% dundee was awesome, so was the intros, a slew of others including "Take Heed"(loved the Schooly D sample).

But the uneveness showed with Dice Raw, and him being featured on the album at all. To me, he still was that 15 yr old who ripped the freestyle seesion from "The Lesson", and the one who carried his own but wasnt too Noticeable on Illadelph. He got too much time on the mic on TFA, and it did not mesh. the beautiful word play on "DOnt see us" was messed up by him and his avg rhymes. He was ok on Adreniline, but fell short on "Nuthin New." Another thing with the album, which was changed on later albums was song structure. The Roots were subtle, and touched on different topics on previous efforts, but this album was battle rap, battle rap, girl joint, battle rap, battle rap battle rap, battle rap.

The soundscape was awesome, and I will always be happy about the Grammy and remembering how excited Thought and 'em were onstage. I wish youtube had video of their acceptance speech.

I am just trying to understanding everyone else's POV, and I'm open to whatever opinions.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
1
ok........
Oct 21st 2006
2
lol
Oct 21st 2006
6
time a THOUGHT to blow a mind may take time
Oct 21st 2006
3
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oct 21st 2006
4
WHAT...THE...EFF?????
Oct 22nd 2006
27
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
5
well,
Oct 21st 2006
12
      RE: well,
Oct 21st 2006
15
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
7
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
9
      you didn't answer my question
Oct 22nd 2006
28
           RE: you didn't answer my question
Oct 23rd 2006
30
                did we ever hear that on any pre-Phren albums?
Oct 25th 2006
37
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
8
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
10
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 21st 2006
11
TFA= the most overrated roots album
Oct 21st 2006
13
^^^not at all hip-hop
Oct 21st 2006
14
      let them have an opinion
Oct 21st 2006
16
      musical tastes are inherently subjective
Oct 22nd 2006
24
      ^^^^ music snob
Oct 21st 2006
17
           and proud of it , bitch
Oct 21st 2006
18
           i wasn't talking to you
Oct 22nd 2006
19
           ..what's your point?
Oct 22nd 2006
20
                no point man
Oct 22nd 2006
21
                     'sokay, player
Oct 22nd 2006
22
I know everybody has their own opinion...
Oct 22nd 2006
23
28
Oct 22nd 2006
26
      For such a roots fan
Oct 26th 2006
38
           um
Oct 26th 2006
39
I Had My Izzuez Wit "TFA" Az Well But I'll Never Say It Waz.....
Oct 22nd 2006
25
RE: I Had My Izzuez Wit "TFA" Az Well But I'll Never Say It Waz.....
Oct 22nd 2006
29
Stop doing drugs. Clouding your judgment.
Oct 23rd 2006
31
but have you LISTENED to TFA???
Oct 23rd 2006
32
here comes the silly onslaught
Oct 23rd 2006
33
i have to respectfully disagree"
Oct 24th 2006
34
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 25th 2006
35
RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART"
Oct 25th 2006
36

Drewmathic
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2550 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 09:02 AM

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1. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 0


          

Man, I love this album so much. The beats, hooks, lyrics. Very listenable all the way through. Same with every Roots album. TFA is a masterpiece.

___________________________________________
http://www.windowsonhaiti.com

__________________________________________________
I don't take it personal, I take it seriously
_____________________________

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 09:49 AM

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2. "ok........"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

name sumthing that u did not like about the album. did u see my point at all?

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 01:08 PM

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6. "lol"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

  

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NasMatic
Member since Jul 17th 2006
87 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 10:05 AM

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3. "time a THOUGHT to blow a mind may take time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when the album came out i use to love "you got me" above all. But once i took that song appart i beagan diggin the whole album and saw how much deep and layered it is.TRY SOME TIME TO FOLLOW ? DRUM JOB ON THE SONGS? the other day hub's bass, and so on. AND WHAT ABOUT THE KEYS ON THE OUTRINTRO of "nothin' new":BANNANAAAAAS!the roots music offered to mos def to show his vast flow abilities in "double trouble": the killler ego tripper, the catchy hook maker la busta rhymes (hhahhhhaa and so on) and the singer talent.
I BOUGHT GAME theory the day it came out in france and i love IT but i still wonder if TFA won't remain the roots masterpiece.

  

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chinsu
Member since Jan 18th 2003
1410 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 12:00 PM

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4. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

WTF?

________________

Smoke?

  

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lexx3001
Charter member
9211 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 01:31 PM

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27. "WHAT...THE...EFF?????"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

.....Wow!
man, you....wow....damn....<walks away slowly

Stay strong

Lexx

iamlexx.com
newvintagegroup.com
aim: lexx3001

  

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K. Dot
Member since Dec 14th 2005
8471 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 12:27 PM

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5. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 0


          

I understand that you don't think that Things Fall Apart was that great but do you really think Dice Raw didn't fit in that album or Illadelph? IMO, Dice shined on songs like "Clones" and "Episodes" and went well with the mood of the album. Dude was noticeable and necessary for that project. It suprised me when you said that he has average rhymes b/c I've always thought that he was an above average rhymesayer and it shows on both Illadelph and Things Fall Apart. I agree with you though that TFA was pretty much braggadio like previous records and I noticed that too when I first listened to it but as we see now moreso than ever, Thought has gotten deeper into other topics. Just my piece on that topic. Peace.

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 07:13 PM

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12. "well,"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

he did fit on illadelph, and settled behind the scenes with his two appearances. with TFA, there was way too much of him to the point that he seemed like a new member that did not fit.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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K. Dot
Member since Dec 14th 2005
8471 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 10:13 PM

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15. "RE: well,"
In response to Reply # 12


          

I thought Dice was on the same number of songs on TFA as he was on Illadelph Halflife. He was on at least 2-3 songs on each album. I could be wrong though....

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 01:10 PM

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7. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>beautiful word play on "DOnt see us" was messed up by him and
>his avg rhymes.

"I got a gun that don't bust and just suck niggaz in"

Is your only prob with the album that Dice was on it too much?

- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 02:49 PM

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9. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

u can't just pick one line to defend him. he was on it too much, and his content didnt fit. its just that there are the roots and how malik and thought feed off each other, and then there is dice. different language.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 02:56 PM

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28. "you didn't answer my question"
In response to Reply # 9
Sun Oct-22-06 02:57 PM by prophet j

  

          

>u can't just pick one line to defend him.

be easy. you said you were open to others' opinions, right? i was using a line from "you don't see us" to exemplify how i liked elements of his verse in that song, because you specifically spoke of how you didn't like him in that song.

>he was on it too
>much, and his content didnt fit. its just that there are the
>roots and how malik and thought feed off each other, and then
>there is dice. different language.

yeah, but is that the only problem you had with TFA? that's okay if it was, i was just wondering.



- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Mon Oct-23-06 10:22 AM

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30. "RE: you didn't answer my question"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

that was pretty much my only problem ice Raw and the overusage of the battle rap jounrney. The Roots figured out later on that their more than just a dope band with a great MC. Its more than that and should be when u have won a crowd of loyal people. Tell us your "Thought"s beside being the best on the mic and missing your girl. Eventually we got to see that, but not on TFA.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Wed Oct-25-06 11:22 PM

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37. "did we ever hear that on any pre-Phren albums?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>Tell us your "Thought"s beside being the
>best on the mic and missing your girl. Eventually we got to
>see that, but not on TFA.

Game Theory was really the only album that was pretty consistently not at least partly battle raps. Even Phrenology, which did have songs with specific meanings had some battle rhymes. In fact, most rap albums are mostly songs like that.

- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

  

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Preach
Member since Sep 03rd 2002
4179 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 02:44 PM

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8. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

'double trouble' leading into 'love of my life' is 5 mic material right there alone.

i hear what you're saying about the dice references. i've always had that feeling that dice was on there too much too...i think he's great for hooks etc.

but yea, tfa is my shit. it came out during a hard time in my life and it helped the hell out of me, so even the good w/ the bad on that album still has such strong sentimental value to me that i will love every song on there no matter what.

Preach's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/kindablu

Cop it: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/preachhiphop

'Garveyism' REVIEWS/PRESS:

HipHopGame.com: http://www.hiphopgame.com/index2.php3?page=preach

Rap Reviews: http://www.rapreviews.com/archive/2006_10_garveyi

  

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Super_Kweli
Member since Sep 29th 2006
148 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 04:24 PM

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10. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Im not quite sure what my favorite Roots album is, Things Fall Apart isnt an obvious answer for me. I love Illadelph Halflife Do You Want More and Game Theory almost as much as TFA.

Every album The Roots make is tight.

  

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SupraDupra
Member since Jan 25th 2006
341 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 06:29 PM

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11. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH &quot;THINGS FALL APART&quot;"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-21-06 06:29 PM by SupraDupra

  

          

I think we can all agree that we're all happy that "Set 'Em on Fire" was not on any of the Roots' albums.

All other topics are merely subjective.

  

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Goose
Member since Feb 05th 2006
4635 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 08:46 PM

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13. "TFA= the most overrated roots album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i was very disappointed when i picked it up, it is far from a classic taht most OKP's make it out to be, game theory, DYWM, and phrenology are much better than things fall apart,

___________________________
Add me on:
www.gooseohio.bandcamp.com
http://smallkidbigcity.wordpress.com/
http://smallkidbigcity.tumblr.com/
www.facebook.com/zgase
www.facebook.com/pages/Goose/207963479294713
www.twitter.com/gooseohio
www.dwightschrutebeetf

  

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shockzilla
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Sat Oct-21-06 09:39 PM

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14. "^^^not at all hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 13


          

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 10:48 PM

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16. "let them have an opinion"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

not everybody is gonn agree wit u. The album was good to me, but nt there best. I would say that it is right behind Organix as my least favorite.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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shockzilla
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37796 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 02:58 AM

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24. "musical tastes are inherently subjective"
In response to Reply # 16


          

but,

wtf?

(lol)

  

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PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 11:40 PM

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17. "^^^^ music snob"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

oink oink

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sat Oct-21-06 11:54 PM

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18. "and proud of it , bitch"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 12:01 AM

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19. "i wasn't talking to you"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

but thanks, bitch.

  

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shockzilla
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Sun Oct-22-06 01:14 AM

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20. "..what's your point?"
In response to Reply # 17


          

  

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PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 02:07 AM

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21. "no point man"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

just saying. nothing personal player.

  

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shockzilla
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Sun Oct-22-06 02:22 AM

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22. "'sokay, player"
In response to Reply # 21


          

..i've been accused of such before

ex-record store clerk, you know

  

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Arkitech
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7082 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 02:49 AM

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23. "I know everybody has their own opinion..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but damn!! I don't understand how anyone can't see how TFA is'nt the best album in the Roots discography.


Just out of curiosity how old are you?

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 11:40 AM

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26. "28"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

i was fully into hip hop when it came out, holding up that underground flag, and a huge roots fan too. the rhythm of the album was messed up, and thought i like hearing thought at war, it was too much strictly battle rapping on there.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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Blowback
Member since Sep 13th 2002
187 posts
Thu Oct-26-06 02:50 AM

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38. "For such a roots fan"
In response to Reply # 26


          

It's kinda strange you got almost all song titles wrong (except for you got me ...)
or can you show me where to find 'Take heed' on TFA??

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Thu Oct-26-06 12:48 PM

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39. "um"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

if u dont agree, just say that. dont drift off topic with cheap shots about not knowing song titles. stay focused. I was talking about Without a Doubt.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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Grand_Styles
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Sun Oct-22-06 05:50 AM

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25. "I Had My Izzuez Wit "TFA" Az Well But I'll Never Say It Waz....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.....overrated or underrated cauze perzonally it waz what it waz, it waz a dope album with great beatz & lyricz which I can lizten to frum beginnin' to end but with two songz I alwayz skip (one of dem iz "You Got Me").

Alzo I lyke to mention dat ever since den it'z been da lazt album I really lyked by The Roots; I felt jilted by da "Live" album, "Phrenology" had it'z hitz & mizzez, "TP" waz better than "Phrenology" but had it'z hitz & mizzez az well, & da new album iz nice but doezn't have any stand out cutz it feelz lyke one long song with different variationz goin' back & forth.

Don't get me wrong I'm styll a fan of B.T. & The Roots but maybe I've been wantin' to hear somethin' frum dem dat they don't do anymore or they thought they were wack at doin' it in da pazt.....who knowz.

Peace & Pizza Greaze!

Anotha Keyztylebonic Vizion Prezentation!

http://myspace.com/GrandStyleDecypher
http://soundclick.com/GrandStylezlistenstation
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/halftimewnyu The Halftime Show (Wednesdays 10:30pm-1:00am)

  

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Super_Kweli
Member since Sep 29th 2006
148 posts
Sun Oct-22-06 04:59 PM

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29. "RE: I Had My Izzuez Wit "TFA" Az Well But I'll Never Say It Waz....."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Every album the Roots have released gets at least 4 out of 5 questies if you ask me. I dont know if i really have a Roots album that obviously outshines the rest. But i must say Double Trouble, Nothin New, and Love of My Life (cant remember the title, its the one with common) are some of my favorite Roots songs.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
15281 posts
Mon Oct-23-06 07:29 PM

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31. "Stop doing drugs. Clouding your judgment."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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blake33
Member since Jul 09th 2006
115 posts
Mon Oct-23-06 07:42 PM

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32. "but have you LISTENED to TFA???"
In response to Reply # 31


          

I mean, whoa man, whoa. Just... whoa.


where am I?



"We like free speech but we love free cable" - Boots Riley

  

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jeanlouis61
Member since Dec 02nd 2005
3415 posts
Mon Oct-23-06 08:44 PM

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33. "here comes the silly onslaught"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no where in my posts did I say that I didnt like the album. I stated what I didnt like about it. Overall, its a listenable album, which I said in my original post. still, no one has sold me on the things that I mentioned or argued an opposing thought, mentioning what i said I had probs with. of course, there are always the "u must be stupid" or U must be smoking" posts that include no deep thought or even a supposting statment, whenever one wants to present an unpopular opinion.

But, do proceed.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41260 posts
Tue Oct-24-06 05:35 AM

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34. "i have to respectfully disagree""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to be fair, im listening right now

first; i'll address the "uneven" nature of the album.
i personally cant find this element anywhere. this album is what i would call "steady". there arent any drastic changes in terms of production, only movement and evolution throughout, and reaches it's apex with the obvious "you got me" and "act too", noth of hich are excruciatingly beautiful.

lyrically? yeah, its a battle record. its a straight hip hop record. if you listen intently, this is the life of a pure hip hop head. you got the b boy bravado of without a doubt, you got the ode to the art form itself in act too, and you got the emotional tugs of teh spark and you got me, you got the calling out of wackness in nothin new, you got hip hop 101 in double trouble, in terms of lyric and music-i mean, has there been a better flip of nautilus? this is a pure old school nod right here.

IMO, dices appearances were all on point. once again-look at this record as the ultimate "i'm a hip hop head" record

and really, much as i like topical rhymes and great songwriting.. i love this hip hop shit. and really, this is justa raw hip hop record. no orld changing rhymes. it's a fun record. Dynamite! might have been dillas best beat ever. but it's a hip hop record. it makes me want to do windmills and brak out my art book for some piece sketches. it makes me forget abuot how real life is outside of these headphones and just zone out on hip hop's rawest and most innocent form-rhyming for the sake of rhyming. saying some fly shit, or at least TRYING to say some fly shit to some dope beats. thats IT. there isnt a better new school representative of "the good old days" then this.

now, seeing as ho it's strength in my eyes are also the weaknesses you percieve, this is where we part ways and agree to disagree. i simply think you are looking at it the wrong way; it IS a battle record. its a straight hip hop record, just exceptionally well done beats and rhymes. all killer, no filler. and i love it for that quality.

  

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L.E.S.
Member since Oct 18th 2006
5070 posts
Wed Oct-25-06 03:41 PM

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35. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
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>when it came out like everyone else, and I love "Love
>Movement.",

you mean The Next Movement?

Things Fall Apart was the perfect album in its time and place.
flawed? sure. enough to post about? no.

  

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Super_Kweli
Member since Sep 29th 2006
148 posts
Wed Oct-25-06 06:53 PM

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36. "RE: MY PROBLEM WITH "THINGS FALL APART""
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Yeah im convinced TFA is my fav Roots album now. How does Game Theory rank??

  

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