Yeah, I know. "here, look at me!" But I really want to understand why countless people think that this is the best album from the roots.

Now, I was dazzled, stupified, and mystified by "You got Me" when it came out like everyone else, and I love "Love Movement.", but after that there were hits and misses. Dont get me wrong, Its a very creative album, its very listenable. Its just that at certain points I just felt that it was.......(pauses, considering onslaught), uneven.


I loved Thought and believed that he just murdered the beats, the mic and whatever else was standing in the vicinity. Malik B, the same. 100% dundee was awesome, so was the intros, a slew of others including "Take Heed"(loved the Schooly D sample).

But the uneveness showed with Dice Raw, and him being featured on the album at all. To me, he still was that 15 yr old who ripped the freestyle seesion from "The Lesson", and the one who carried his own but wasnt too Noticeable on Illadelph. He got too much time on the mic on TFA, and it did not mesh. the beautiful word play on "DOnt see us" was messed up by him and his avg rhymes. He was ok on Adreniline, but fell short on "Nuthin New." Another thing with the album, which was changed on later albums was song structure. The Roots were subtle, and touched on different topics on previous efforts, but this album was battle rap, battle rap, girl joint, battle rap, battle rap battle rap, battle rap.

The soundscape was awesome, and I will always be happy about the Grammy and remembering how excited Thought and 'em were onstage. I wish youtube had video of their acceptance speech.

I am just trying to understanding everyone else's POV, and I'm open to whatever opinions.

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Man, I love this album so much. The beats, hooks, lyrics. Very listenable all the way through. Same with every Roots album. TFA is a masterpiece.

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name sumthing that u did not like about the album. did u see my point at all?

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- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

when the album came out i use to love "you got me" above all. But once i took that song appart i beagan diggin the whole album and saw how much deep and layered it is.TRY SOME TIME TO FOLLOW ? DRUM JOB ON THE SONGS? the other day hub's bass, and so on. AND WHAT ABOUT THE KEYS ON THE OUTRINTRO of "nothin' new":BANNANAAAAAS!the roots music offered to mos def to show his vast flow abilities in "double trouble": the killler ego tripper, the catchy hook maker à la busta rhymes (hhahhhhaa and so on) and the singer talent.
I BOUGHT GAME theory the day it came out in france and i love IT but i still wonder if TFA won't remain the roots masterpiece.

WTF?

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I understand that you don't think that Things Fall Apart was that great but do you really think Dice Raw didn't fit in that album or Illadelph? IMO, Dice shined on songs like "Clones" and "Episodes" and went well with the mood of the album. Dude was noticeable and necessary for that project. It suprised me when you said that he has average rhymes b/c I've always thought that he was an above average rhymesayer and it shows on both Illadelph and Things Fall Apart. I agree with you though that TFA was pretty much braggadio like previous records and I noticed that too when I first listened to it but as we see now moreso than ever, Thought has gotten deeper into other topics. Just my piece on that topic. Peace.

he did fit on illadelph, and settled behind the scenes with his two appearances. with TFA, there was way too much of him to the point that he seemed like a new member that did not fit.

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I thought Dice was on the same number of songs on TFA as he was on Illadelph Halflife. He was on at least 2-3 songs on each album. I could be wrong though....

>beautiful word play on "DOnt see us" was messed up by him and
>his avg rhymes.

"I got a gun that don't bust and just suck niggaz in"

Is your only prob with the album that Dice was on it too much?

- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

u can't just pick one line to defend him. he was on it too much, and his content didnt fit. its just that there are the roots and how malik and thought feed off each other, and then there is dice. different language.

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>u can't just pick one line to defend him.

be easy. you said you were open to others' opinions, right? i was using a line from "you don't see us" to exemplify how i liked elements of his verse in that song, because you specifically spoke of how you didn't like him in that song.

>he was on it too
>much, and his content didnt fit. its just that there are the
>roots and how malik and thought feed off each other, and then
>there is dice. different language.

yeah, but is that the only problem you had with TFA? that's okay if it was, i was just wondering.



- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

that was pretty much my only problem ice Raw and the overusage of the battle rap jounrney. The Roots figured out later on that their more than just a dope band with a great MC. Its more than that and should be when u have won a crowd of loyal people. Tell us your "Thought"s beside being the best on the mic and missing your girl. Eventually we got to see that, but not on TFA.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

>Tell us your "Thought"s beside being the
>best on the mic and missing your girl. Eventually we got to
>see that, but not on TFA.

Game Theory was really the only album that was pretty consistently not at least partly battle raps. Even Phrenology, which did have songs with specific meanings had some battle rhymes. In fact, most rap albums are mostly songs like that.

- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

'double trouble' leading into 'love of my life' is 5 mic material right there alone.

i hear what you're saying about the dice references. i've always had that feeling that dice was on there too much too...i think he's great for hooks etc.

but yea, tfa is my shit. it came out during a hard time in my life and it helped the hell out of me, so even the good w/ the bad on that album still has such strong sentimental value to me that i will love every song on there no matter what.

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Im not quite sure what my favorite Roots album is, Things Fall Apart isnt an obvious answer for me. I love Illadelph Halflife Do You Want More and Game Theory almost as much as TFA.

Every album The Roots make is tight.

I think we can all agree that we're all happy that "Set 'Em on Fire" was not on any of the Roots' albums.

All other topics are merely subjective.

i was very disappointed when i picked it up, it is far from a classic taht most OKP's make it out to be, game theory, DYWM, and phrenology are much better than things fall apart,

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not everybody is gonn agree wit u. The album was good to me, but nt there best. I would say that it is right behind Organix as my least favorite.

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but,

wtf?

(lol)

oink oink

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

but thanks, bitch.

just saying. nothing personal player.

..i've been accused of such before

ex-record store clerk, you know

but damn!! I don't understand how anyone can't see how TFA is'nt the best album in the Roots discography.


Just out of curiosity how old are you?

i was fully into hip hop when it came out, holding up that underground flag, and a huge roots fan too. the rhythm of the album was messed up, and thought i like hearing thought at war, it was too much strictly battle rapping on there.

follow me @oldirtyplaster on the Twitter thing.....i say awesome stuff

It's kinda strange you got almost all song titles wrong (except for you got me ...)
or can you show me where to find 'Take heed' on TFA??

if u dont agree, just say that. dont drift off topic with cheap shots about not knowing song titles. stay focused. I was talking about Without a Doubt.

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.....overrated or underrated cauze perzonally it waz what it waz, it waz a dope album with great beatz & lyricz which I can lizten to frum beginnin' to end but with two songz I alwayz skip (one of dem iz "You Got Me").

Alzo I lyke to mention dat ever since den it'z been da lazt album I really lyked by The Roots; I felt jilted by da "Live" album, "Phrenology" had it'z hitz & mizzez, "TP" waz better than "Phrenology" but had it'z hitz & mizzez az well, & da new album iz nice but doezn't have any stand out cutz it feelz lyke one long song with different variationz goin' back & forth.

Don't get me wrong I'm styll a fan of B.T. & The Roots but maybe I've been wantin' to hear somethin' frum dem dat they don't do anymore or they thought they were wack at doin' it in da pazt.....who knowz.

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Every album the Roots have released gets at least 4 out of 5 questies if you ask me. I dont know if i really have a Roots album that obviously outshines the rest. But i must say Double Trouble, Nothin New, and Love of My Life (cant remember the title, its the one with common) are some of my favorite Roots songs.

I mean, whoa man, whoa. Just... whoa.


where am I?

"We like free speech but we love free cable" - Boots Riley

no where in my posts did I say that I didnt like the album. I stated what I didnt like about it. Overall, its a listenable album, which I said in my original post. still, no one has sold me on the things that I mentioned or argued an opposing thought, mentioning what i said I had probs with. of course, there are always the "u must be stupid" or U must be smoking" posts that include no deep thought or even a supposting statment, whenever one wants to present an unpopular opinion.

But, do proceed.

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to be fair, im listening right now

first; i'll address the "uneven" nature of the album.
i personally cant find this element anywhere. this album is what i would call "steady". there arent any drastic changes in terms of production, only movement and evolution throughout, and reaches it's apex with the obvious "you got me" and "act too", noth of hich are excruciatingly beautiful.

lyrically? yeah, its a battle record. its a straight hip hop record. if you listen intently, this is the life of a pure hip hop head. you got the b boy bravado of without a doubt, you got the ode to the art form itself in act too, and you got the emotional tugs of teh spark and you got me, you got the calling out of wackness in nothin new, you got hip hop 101 in double trouble, in terms of lyric and music-i mean, has there been a better flip of nautilus? this is a pure old school nod right here.

IMO, dices appearances were all on point. once again-look at this record as the ultimate "i'm a hip hop head" record

and really, much as i like topical rhymes and great songwriting.. i love this hip hop shit. and really, this is justa raw hip hop record. no orld changing rhymes. it's a fun record. Dynamite! might have been dillas best beat ever. but it's a hip hop record. it makes me want to do windmills and brak out my art book for some piece sketches. it makes me forget abuot how real life is outside of these headphones and just zone out on hip hop's rawest and most innocent form-rhyming for the sake of rhyming. saying some fly shit, or at least TRYING to say some fly shit to some dope beats. thats IT. there isnt a better new school representative of "the good old days" then this.

now, seeing as ho it's strength in my eyes are also the weaknesses you percieve, this is where we part ways and agree to disagree. i simply think you are looking at it the wrong way; it IS a battle record. its a straight hip hop record, just exceptionally well done beats and rhymes. all killer, no filler. and i love it for that quality.

-Sig-

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>when it came out like everyone else, and I love "Love
>Movement.",

you mean The Next Movement?

Things Fall Apart was the perfect album in its time and place.
flawed? sure. enough to post about? no.

Yeah im convinced TFA is my fav Roots album now. How does Game Theory rank??