..ulterior motives are fuckin' up the program *thanks, kc*

*this thread will self-destruct...

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<--------------
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Make ya head pop off
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fuck that i'm holding out for chivalry

somebody will come along







eventually




maybe?

aint no motive there.... is there?

..i go out of my way, to allow women & the elderly a seat

i always offer...


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so thats chivalry right there...

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i dunno, man. if im giving up my seat to an old lady on the subway, they look pretty appreciative to me.

sad thing is that they so shocked because it hardly ever happens anymore.

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thats okay tho

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up by women and augmented by the media and popular culture.

believing in chivalry is like believing in god
neither one of them really exist
but people believe just to make themselves feel better about life.

..i agree on the romanticized vision, but my main problem is that it was always considered somethin' that MEN were responsible for

which basically contradicts the very essence of chivalry...

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u refuse to date


=/




lol

HIBERNATING MONK STATUS.

not cool.

*slaps palm with crowbar*

don't make me go in there after you.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

i luh that song

remember novemthree's courage...

http://www.facebook.com/p/Sonya_Denise_Freeman/203402516
facebook me :0)

---
Stoicism and chill.
---
Stay +.
---

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
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You're probably one of the many that have taken advantage...

men need to know what it feels like to have a pussy then they can talk abt alterior motives and being taken advantage of...

..fuckouttheeeeeeeeeeeere (heh)

PEOPLE take advantage of people

where did i state anything about gender?

i said CHIVALRY doesn't exist

you're provin' my point...

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Uhm i suppose in this gender neutral society that is beginning to abound around us that chivalry can be used to describe a woman...

but chivalry is more synonymous with the gallantry of a man or a knight which is how the word was coined in old france....

As far as your response...I'm sure there are plenty of women who learned to take advantage over time from whatever experiences that they have had in the past...

women aren't necessarily sat down and taught to be takers....

they learn it yes...through osmosis....

however men, boys are sat down and taught that their place is to conquer whatever is around them man woman or child...

as a woman who does not set out to take advantage of any one...i then re - ask you what do you really know about chivalry? what do you really know about being taken advantage of? or rather since you used the word chivalry when have you felt that someone MAN or WOMAN hasn't acted like a "knight" with you????


really though...as a man who almost evry poster talks abt being handsome...etc...men and women...it seems to me that you are in the position of taking and not giving more often than not....

so these are my ponderings and so that is why my reply was phrased as such....

you can choose to answer, cus i want to know...I really want to know how have you felt taken advantage of...?

..i'm not so concerned about the definition traditionaly given for the term

hell, that shit back in ol' england is a crock of shit now, 'cause the balance is off

its really not about gender, 'cause the truth is, we should all be more appreciative of each other

>really though...as a man who almost evry poster talks abt
>being handsome...etc...men and women...it seems to me that you
>are in the position of taking and not giving more often than
>not....

bein' in a position to take advantage simple brings MORE responsibility to the individual.

yeah, i've been taken advantage of (never more than once for the same thing, tho).

thing is, too many people EXPECT certain things (gifts, time, emotion, assumptions, etc.), and not enough people can appreciate the word "no"

for whateva reason, whenever you decline to take someone up on an offer, or decide against a particular course of action, and its NOT what someone else wanted/expected, you're bein' difficult (in layman's terms: an asshole)...


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>..i'm not so concerned about the definition traditionaly
>given for the term
>
>hell, that shit back in ol' england is a crock of shit now,
>'cause the balance is off

True the balance is way off...I'm more of a wholistic person...sometimes I can't see the trees for the forest...and vice versa I'm flexible other people may not be...
>
>its really not about gender, 'cause the truth is, we should
>all be more appreciative of each other

Very true, ideally i would love to be able to not be on gaurd all the time especially from men...reality does not dictate that though...
>
>bein' in a position to take advantage simple brings MORE
>responsibility to the individual.


Now that's interesting...when you say responibilty, do you mean obligation and is this solely in male-female dynamics of your relationships???


>yeah, i've been taken advantage of (never more than once for
>the same thing, tho).

Never more than once for the same thing...or never more than once from the same person...

I fail at both...cus I trust easily more than trust i want to give people the benefit of the doubt that they don't give me...

>thing is, too many people EXPECT certain things (gifts, time,
>emotion, assumptions, etc.), and not enough people can
>appreciate the word "no"
>
>for whateva reason, whenever you decline to take someone up on
>an offer, or decide against a particular course of action, and
>its NOT what someone else wanted/expected, you're bein'
>difficult (in layman's terms: an asshole)...
>

Now that I can agree with....I've been coined a jerk/asshole more than enough for simply striving to regain what I've lost or hold on to what I have....that's tuff...

I think it's easier for a man to say no...matta of fact I know it's easier for me...it's not so easy and when I finally do the person who ha sbeen taking from me all this time...makes me fell guilty for it...

that part i definitely don't think you have experienced...now do you sight what i am saying???

..nothin' about this is specific to either gender

its the same as bein' an employer vs bein' an employee

*with great power, comes great responsibility (thas universal)

and its not easier/harder for anyone (again, gender doesn't matter)

*men are not taught to take advantage of, criminals are

men & women are taught to respect...



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men and women are taught to respect
in this world men are taught to conquer and women are taught to be conquered.

I hear you cy...just don't lose yourself in what you idealistically want and what is....


for instance if you really believed that men and women were taught that there would be no need for this post or rather you would have felt no need/want for this post

as far as gender is concerned again if I existed in a world where my identity would not be woman or black first then I would agree but it is not so...

employee employer- an employer conqeurs no...and employee is conequered no...in more simple terms of the word conqeur being the boss of...

so using your very own analogy and using it as a pair of shades to look at people relationships I will say that men would be the employer---as they are the majority of employers worldwide and women are the employees as we still take many subservient roles in society today.

that's not heresey...that is fact my friend...

but I believe in the world that you live in....however you live in that world because you are a man...if you were a woman you would know what i am talking about...but being a man doesn't stop you from understanding my point though...

..thas a HUGE part of the problem (heh)

first, i'm a minority, so i know what its like to be slighted or discriminated against

honestly, employers and employees only succeed when they work as a team. in this case, the fact that i run a company allows me the opportunity to take advantge of people, but doin' so would be costly (no reward).

thas responsibility

respect means that even if i COULD get away wit' it, i won't go there, 'cause i appreciate the people workin' for me

i strive to bring people up, not bring them along

you gotta see past the gender fued

once you do, you'll understand that BOTH genders are guilty (for various reasons)

*btw, jus' because you TEACH the right values, doesn't mean it sticks.

we all know right from wrong

individual adults are responsible for themselves, so this can't be blamed on what's bein' taught. we have to rise above what's generally accepted, and push for more...

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FOR THE FEMALES!! FOR THEM LADIES!

☺☻

"i'm doing good, can i put my face in your buttcrack?" (c) P.Inf

"frankly, I think it's foolish to have a cat or a baby, but whatever" (c) veritas

@kingofthings

about the pink button down?

..this is about the fucked up view that people have regardin' chivalry

this is about the people who can't/don't/won't apprec chivalry

this is about people who front, but really don't have good intentions

and no, this isn't gender-specific...

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for those ppl it doesn't exist but u can't tell me that ppl can't just do something for someone else just becuz they want to

ok when u refurbish computers or whatever u do to them and give them away y do u do it? what's the motivation?

..its not about chivalry

i do it to provide a service to those who can't afford it

charity and chivalry are two diff things...

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having looked at webster's definition, u r right. it doesn't exist

hence the sig and the avy

carry on

"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

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in a general sense, chivalry is dead. The society we live in now is so selfish, no one has time to think about anyone else, especially when it comes to men doing something for women. If they do practice it, there is the ulterior motive behind it, as I would bet money that more attractive women tend to run into more "chivalrous" men as opposed to less attractive women.

However speaking for myself, chivalry never died with me. I guess my father instilled that sense of pride in me. I'll always open a door for a lady, give up a seat on a train/bus or in a crowded room, let a women go first when entering/exiting a door, just because that's how I do, not cause I'm trying to get something from her. I know at least 75% of the time when I do it, I know the woman thinks I have a motive for doing it, but I don't, I'm just being a gentleman.....



"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

..right, you are

the problem i have, is that altho chivalry is somethin' thas natural for me, its rarely ever appreciated

unfortunately, expectation has ruined the very essence of that tradition

*don't get me started on civil/human rights...

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women expecting you to be chivalrous?

And as far as appreciation, I've never done it to please someone else, I've always done it for myself.....



"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

..i don't do it for a reaction

but far too often, things are met wit' negative reactions, tot he point that its ridiculous

that expectation is CRAZY

case in point:

i was leavin' a bldg earlier today, and i had 2 monitors, and a bag over my shoulder.

two women were leavin' @ the same time, and reached the door before me

do you know one actually STOPPED, to allow me the opp to OPEN THE DOOR FOR HER?

i still opened the door (shit, i had to leave too), and i heard her girl ask:

w1: what was that about?
w2: what? girrrrl, please. i don't open doors when men are around
me: ...

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I have no issues with extending courtesy to other human beings.

But when women start acting like its something I'm required to do by nature it irritates the hell out of me

http://www.last.fm/user/Olu/
http://ghanageek.wordpress.com/

maybe because i also hold open doors for men
and have been lectured for it btw

things get a bit confusing
but it's only polite and am courteous when i can be

now while i dont expect a man to hold hold the door for me as a man
i'd appreciate it as the person directly behind them
it's only considerate and polite

matter o fact
when men are clearing doing a big job
wheeling hand trucks
carrying packages
pushing baby carraiges
and the like
it 's just rude to not assist in the smallest way possible


i'd argue for downgrade in the loss of manners in society in general
as opposed to negating the small amount that exists.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

and I'm not changing my habits. I do what I do because I like being that person, not because of how other people respond.

At the same time though, people without common courtesy do get on my nerves at times

http://www.last.fm/user/Olu/
http://ghanageek.wordpress.com/

not if they appear burdened, but usually without even thinking, i step aside to allow them to open the door. and they always do. but i was in the NOI in my formative years, it doesn't occur to me that men *won't* do shit like that for me. i used to get scolded for not "allowing a man to be a man", so if you asked me my thinking at the time, i'd say i was extending a courtesy to *him*, not being on some entitlement-complex shit.

but i do have an entitlement complex. *shrug*

but there have always been courteous men


so i disagree
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

>but there have always been courteous men

..and therein lies the problem...


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~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..you jus' made the assumption/association of chivalry and "men"

this is bigger than men

thas a LARGE part of the problem

*i gave you the label in jest...

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the term Chivalry is a code of conduct created by the knights of the Middle Ages.
Knights were in Middle Ages were a role only performed by men
So much for assumptions

if groundwork laid for assumptions
then assumptions will be made
offer instead some clarity
and assumptions perhaps not be so automatic

it would only be charitable to avoid misleading
unless one chooses to purposefully be obscure for purposes
of debate
but that would be an assumption
and i'd preferr not to make it
since assumptions are currently at issue

rather if it were stated
courtesy, manners, honor, politeness and/or kindness...
no longer exist
then perhaps an assumption would not have made

...
*boxing bell dings*
put em up, put em uuup (c) snaggle puss
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..and even then, it was out of place

why?

'cause it was predicated on a system of subjection, instead of genuine courtesy...

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in the fact that this was and is still largel considered a male code of conduct
hence the assumption can easily be made
that you were referring to the male gender

>'cause it was predicated on a system of subjection, instead of
>genuine courtesy...

western society codes of conduct have always been based on subjection.
the term freedom then should be not be true

but this is only not true in comparison to the original ideal set and the role freedom plays in other socities, it would not be an absolute to state freedom does not exist

to make your statement an absolute
eliminates the any and all possibilities for exception and constant adjustment in societal mores

hence my disagreement stands
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..we're not speakin' on traditional societies

once a standard has evolved, so too must the traditions that originated within

liberation called for an end to certain practices, in order to allow for proper respect and rights

since then, people are quick to accept the rights, but not so quick to accept the RESPONSIBILITIES that accompany them

THIS is the true root of this problem

this isn't about definition of terms, its about simple liberties, and in this case the fact that altho women fight for the right to be considered equal (rightfully so), they still subject men to the traditions that were established accordin' to their own slight

therefore, you're not allowed to primarily associate it wit' men

step it up...

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>..we're not speakin' on traditional societies

of course not. but everything has a root and a history and to ignore one aspect of history and to only acknowledge another makes for flawed thinking
naturally this has evolved.
but not to the point where chivalry is expected of women.
i understand your argument but it could have been better stated initially to avoid
confusion or what you prefer to term assumption. if asumptions are made it would be more humble and modest to correct yourself and efforts at comminucating than blame others. and looking at this post the fault does not lie with the responders but the one who miscommunicated. KYA

>liberation called for an end to certain practices, in order to
>allow for proper respect and rights

this is still in play and is not at an end
i'd argue that chivalry has downgraded to the point that the barest of courtesies
are given on either side. note the use of the word courtesy in the end not chivalry

>since then, people are quick to accept the rights, but not so
>quick to accept the RESPONSIBILITIES that accompany them
>
>THIS is the true root of this problem
>
>this isn't about definition of terms, its about simple
>liberties, and in this case the fact that altho women fight
>for the right to be considered equal (rightfully so), they
>still subject men to the traditions that were established
>accordin' to their own slight

this is true but does not make for an absolute argument
regarding chivalry because of your inconsistent incorrect use of the term
simply for arguments sake
dimissing a definition for convenience
gives you no base in the argument
it would still be about the definition in terms because it was the term you choose to use.
please see previous statement for alternatives


>therefore, you're not allowed to primarily associate it wit'
>men

argument not proven

>step it up...

how trite...


~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..i didn't dismiss the definition, it was rendered VOID

and not by me, alone, but by society

when the definitions of rights/respect/responsibility change, so does everything else regardin' them

my original statement still stands, and while the introduction to this debate may NOT have been a thorough description of my thoughts, it was YOU that initially made the wrong assumptions

i haven't made ONE assumption in this debate: i'm speakin' from experience

FACTS

i never stated that my experiences were universal, only that this is what i see on a daily basis

the fact that your definition of the term "chivalry" doesn't fit here is concrete. (thas like tryin' state a precedent set in a historic case, yet still tryin' to use the tradition used BEFORE it)

i've already stated that chivalry is no longer gender specific, and that i don't subscribe to the former definition

check & mate...

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assumptions are not rendered solely by the receiver of the message
but by what is delivered

if your audiennce has made a leap to assumption it is a flaw in argument and communication by the deliverer for the most part

again KYA

your experience not relayed
your personal definition was not given
you basis in societies failure on chilvalry was also not stated
all from get go.

who is truly making the assumption here
from what i gather no one here reads minds

accusations of assumption on the receiver's end
mainly indicates poor skill in communication on the deliver's end

i play no games
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..an assumption is when someone wrongfully makes a judgment, without havin' all the fact or info

you made an assumption, not me

i made a statement, and have since then, back it up wit' info

if you felt there was a lack of info or evidence, its on YOU to inquire within

when i made the comment about chivalry, it was general and not specific to EITHER gender, but like most people, you immediately assumed and attributed it to MEN

from there, i countered that EXACT frame and approach is why chivalry is "non-existant"

- i'm not arguin' the definition of chivalry
- i'm not debatin' opinions on who's responsibile

perhaps, the next time you find yourself in a situation without all the necessary info, you'll ask before you assume...



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already


sheesh

..heh...

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but that's ok
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..the 1st step is usually the most critical...

__________________________
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