..ulterior motives are fuckin' up the program *thanks, kc*

*this thread will self-destruct...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

fuck that i'm holding out for chivalry

somebody will come along







eventually




maybe?

aint no motive there.... is there? :)

..i go out of my way, to allow women & the elderly a seat

i always offer...


__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

so thats chivalry right there...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

i dunno, man. if im giving up my seat to an old lady on the subway, they look pretty appreciative to me.

sad thing is that they so shocked because it hardly ever happens anymore.

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

_________________________
Politics and Sports are found here:

http://expertise.blogdrive.com

thats okay tho

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

up by women and augmented by the media and popular culture.

believing in chivalry is like believing in god
neither one of them really exist
but people believe just to make themselves feel better about life.

..i agree on the romanticized vision, but my main problem is that it was always considered somethin' that MEN were responsible for

which basically contradicts the very essence of chivalry...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

u refuse to date


=/




lol

HIBERNATING MONK STATUS.

not cool.

*slaps palm with crowbar*

don't make me go in there after you.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

i luh that song

You're probably one of the many that have taken advantage...

men need to know what it feels like to have a pussy then they can talk abt alterior motives and being taken advantage of...

..fuckouttheeeeeeeeeeeere (heh)

PEOPLE take advantage of people

where did i state anything about gender?

i said CHIVALRY doesn't exist

you're provin' my point...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

Uhm i suppose in this gender neutral society that is beginning to abound around us that chivalry can be used to describe a woman...

but chivalry is more synonymous with the gallantry of a man or a knight which is how the word was coined in old france....

As far as your response...I'm sure there are plenty of women who learned to take advantage over time from whatever experiences that they have had in the past...

women aren't necessarily sat down and taught to be takers....

they learn it yes...through osmosis....

however men, boys are sat down and taught that their place is to conquer whatever is around them man woman or child...

as a woman who does not set out to take advantage of any one...i then re - ask you what do you really know about chivalry? what do you really know about being taken advantage of? or rather since you used the word chivalry when have you felt that someone MAN or WOMAN hasn't acted like a "knight" with you????


really though...as a man who almost evry poster talks abt being handsome...etc...men and women...it seems to me that you are in the position of taking and not giving more often than not....

so these are my ponderings and so that is why my reply was phrased as such....

you can choose to answer, cus i want to know...I really want to know how have you felt taken advantage of...?

..i'm not so concerned about the definition traditionaly given for the term

hell, that shit back in ol' england is a crock of shit now, 'cause the balance is off

its really not about gender, 'cause the truth is, we should all be more appreciative of each other

>really though...as a man who almost evry poster talks abt
>being handsome...etc...men and women...it seems to me that you
>are in the position of taking and not giving more often than
>not....

bein' in a position to take advantage simple brings MORE responsibility to the individual.

yeah, i've been taken advantage of (never more than once for the same thing, tho).

thing is, too many people EXPECT certain things (gifts, time, emotion, assumptions, etc.), and not enough people can appreciate the word "no"

for whateva reason, whenever you decline to take someone up on an offer, or decide against a particular course of action, and its NOT what someone else wanted/expected, you're bein' difficult (in layman's terms: an asshole)...


__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

>..i'm not so concerned about the definition traditionaly
>given for the term
>
>hell, that shit back in ol' england is a crock of shit now,
>'cause the balance is off

True the balance is way off...I'm more of a wholistic person...sometimes I can't see the trees for the forest...and vice versa I'm flexible other people may not be...
>
>its really not about gender, 'cause the truth is, we should
>all be more appreciative of each other

Very true, ideally i would love to be able to not be on gaurd all the time especially from men...reality does not dictate that though...
>
>bein' in a position to take advantage simple brings MORE
>responsibility to the individual.


Now that's interesting...when you say responibilty, do you mean obligation and is this solely in male-female dynamics of your relationships???


>yeah, i've been taken advantage of (never more than once for
>the same thing, tho).

Never more than once for the same thing...or never more than once from the same person...

I fail at both...cus I trust easily more than trust i want to give people the benefit of the doubt that they don't give me...

>thing is, too many people EXPECT certain things (gifts, time,
>emotion, assumptions, etc.), and not enough people can
>appreciate the word "no"
>
>for whateva reason, whenever you decline to take someone up on
>an offer, or decide against a particular course of action, and
>its NOT what someone else wanted/expected, you're bein'
>difficult (in layman's terms: an asshole)...
>

Now that I can agree with....I've been coined a jerk/asshole more than enough for simply striving to regain what I've lost or hold on to what I have....that's tuff...

I think it's easier for a man to say no...matta of fact I know it's easier for me...it's not so easy and when I finally do the person who ha sbeen taking from me all this time...makes me fell guilty for it...

that part i definitely don't think you have experienced...now do you sight what i am saying???

..nothin' about this is specific to either gender

its the same as bein' an employer vs bein' an employee

*with great power, comes great responsibility (thas universal)

and its not easier/harder for anyone (again, gender doesn't matter)

*men are not taught to take advantage of, criminals are

men & women are taught to respect...



__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

men and women are taught to respect
in this world men are taught to conquer and women are taught to be conquered.

I hear you cy...just don't lose yourself in what you idealistically want and what is....


for instance if you really believed that men and women were taught that there would be no need for this post or rather you would have felt no need/want for this post

as far as gender is concerned again if I existed in a world where my identity would not be woman or black first then I would agree but it is not so...

employee employer- an employer conqeurs no...and employee is conequered no...in more simple terms of the word conqeur being the boss of...

so using your very own analogy and using it as a pair of shades to look at people relationships I will say that men would be the employer---as they are the majority of employers worldwide and women are the employees as we still take many subservient roles in society today.

that's not heresey...that is fact my friend...

but I believe in the world that you live in....however you live in that world because you are a man...if you were a woman you would know what i am talking about...but being a man doesn't stop you from understanding my point though...

..thas a HUGE part of the problem (heh)

first, i'm a minority, so i know what its like to be slighted or discriminated against

honestly, employers and employees only succeed when they work as a team. in this case, the fact that i run a company allows me the opportunity to take advantge of people, but doin' so would be costly (no reward).

thas responsibility

respect means that even if i COULD get away wit' it, i won't go there, 'cause i appreciate the people workin' for me

i strive to bring people up, not bring them along

you gotta see past the gender fued

once you do, you'll understand that BOTH genders are guilty (for various reasons)

*btw, jus' because you TEACH the right values, doesn't mean it sticks.

we all know right from wrong

individual adults are responsible for themselves, so this can't be blamed on what's bein' taught. we have to rise above what's generally accepted, and push for more...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

FOR THE FEMALES!! FOR THEM LADIES!

about the pink button down?

..this is about the fucked up view that people have regardin' chivalry

this is about the people who can't/don't/won't apprec chivalry

this is about people who front, but really don't have good intentions

and no, this isn't gender-specific...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

for those ppl it doesn't exist but u can't tell me that ppl can't just do something for someone else just becuz they want to

ok when u refurbish computers or whatever u do to them and give them away y do u do it? what's the motivation?

..its not about chivalry

i do it to provide a service to those who can't afford it

charity and chivalry are two diff things...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

having looked at webster's definition, u r right. it doesn't exist

hence the sig and the avy

carry on

"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

in a general sense, chivalry is dead. The society we live in now is so selfish, no one has time to think about anyone else, especially when it comes to men doing something for women. If they do practice it, there is the ulterior motive behind it, as I would bet money that more attractive women tend to run into more "chivalrous" men as opposed to less attractive women.

However speaking for myself, chivalry never died with me. I guess my father instilled that sense of pride in me. I'll always open a door for a lady, give up a seat on a train/bus or in a crowded room, let a women go first when entering/exiting a door, just because that's how I do, not cause I'm trying to get something from her. I know at least 75% of the time when I do it, I know the woman thinks I have a motive for doing it, but I don't, I'm just being a gentleman.....



"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

..right, you are

the problem i have, is that altho chivalry is somethin' thas natural for me, its rarely ever appreciated

unfortunately, expectation has ruined the very essence of that tradition

*don't get me started on civil/human rights...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

women expecting you to be chivalrous?

And as far as appreciation, I've never done it to please someone else, I've always done it for myself.....



"I feel sympathy for black people who have no Southern roots."
- Maya Angelou

..i don't do it for a reaction

but far too often, things are met wit' negative reactions, tot he point that its ridiculous

that expectation is CRAZY

case in point:

i was leavin' a bldg earlier today, and i had 2 monitors, and a bag over my shoulder.

two women were leavin' @ the same time, and reached the door before me

do you know one actually STOPPED, to allow me the opp to OPEN THE DOOR FOR HER?

i still opened the door (shit, i had to leave too), and i heard her girl ask:

w1: what was that about?
w2: what? girrrrl, please. i don't open doors when men are around
me: ...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

I have no issues with extending courtesy to other human beings.

But when women start acting like its something I'm required to do by nature it irritates the hell out of me

maybe because i also hold open doors for men
and have been lectured for it btw

things get a bit confusing
but it's only polite and am courteous when i can be

now while i dont expect a man to hold hold the door for me as a man
i'd appreciate it as the person directly behind them
it's only considerate and polite

matter o fact
when men are clearing doing a big job
wheeling hand trucks
carrying packages
pushing baby carraiges
and the like
it 's just rude to not assist in the smallest way possible


i'd argue for downgrade in the loss of manners in society in general
as opposed to negating the small amount that exists.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

and I'm not changing my habits. I do what I do because I like being that person, not because of how other people respond.

At the same time though, people without common courtesy do get on my nerves at times

not if they appear burdened, but usually without even thinking, i step aside to allow them to open the door. and they always do. but i was in the NOI in my formative years, it doesn't occur to me that men *won't* do shit like that for me. i used to get scolded for not "allowing a man to be a man", so if you asked me my thinking at the time, i'd say i was extending a courtesy to *him*, not being on some entitlement-complex shit.

but i do have an entitlement complex. *shrug*

but there have always been courteous men


so i disagree
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

>but there have always been courteous men

..and therein lies the problem...


__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..you jus' made the assumption/association of chivalry and "men"

this is bigger than men

thas a LARGE part of the problem

*i gave you the label in jest...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

the term Chivalry is a code of conduct created by the knights of the Middle Ages.
Knights were in Middle Ages were a role only performed by men
So much for assumptions

if groundwork laid for assumptions
then assumptions will be made
offer instead some clarity
and assumptions perhaps not be so automatic

it would only be charitable to avoid misleading
unless one chooses to purposefully be obscure for purposes
of debate
but that would be an assumption
and i'd preferr not to make it
since assumptions are currently at issue

rather if it were stated
courtesy, manners, honor, politeness and/or kindness...
no longer exist
then perhaps an assumption would not have made

...
*boxing bell dings*
put em up, put em uuup (c) snaggle puss
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..and even then, it was out of place

why?

'cause it was predicated on a system of subjection, instead of genuine courtesy...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

in the fact that this was and is still largel considered a male code of conduct
hence the assumption can easily be made
that you were referring to the male gender

>'cause it was predicated on a system of subjection, instead of
>genuine courtesy...

western society codes of conduct have always been based on subjection.
the term freedom then should be not be true

but this is only not true in comparison to the original ideal set and the role freedom plays in other socities, it would not be an absolute to state freedom does not exist

to make your statement an absolute
eliminates the any and all possibilities for exception and constant adjustment in societal mores

hence my disagreement stands
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..we're not speakin' on traditional societies

once a standard has evolved, so too must the traditions that originated within

liberation called for an end to certain practices, in order to allow for proper respect and rights

since then, people are quick to accept the rights, but not so quick to accept the RESPONSIBILITIES that accompany them

THIS is the true root of this problem

this isn't about definition of terms, its about simple liberties, and in this case the fact that altho women fight for the right to be considered equal (rightfully so), they still subject men to the traditions that were established accordin' to their own slight

therefore, you're not allowed to primarily associate it wit' men

step it up...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

>..we're not speakin' on traditional societies

of course not. but everything has a root and a history and to ignore one aspect of history and to only acknowledge another makes for flawed thinking
naturally this has evolved.
but not to the point where chivalry is expected of women.
i understand your argument but it could have been better stated initially to avoid
confusion or what you prefer to term assumption. if asumptions are made it would be more humble and modest to correct yourself and efforts at comminucating than blame others. and looking at this post the fault does not lie with the responders but the one who miscommunicated. KYA

>liberation called for an end to certain practices, in order to
>allow for proper respect and rights

this is still in play and is not at an end
i'd argue that chivalry has downgraded to the point that the barest of courtesies
are given on either side. note the use of the word courtesy in the end not chivalry

>since then, people are quick to accept the rights, but not so
>quick to accept the RESPONSIBILITIES that accompany them
>
>THIS is the true root of this problem
>
>this isn't about definition of terms, its about simple
>liberties, and in this case the fact that altho women fight
>for the right to be considered equal (rightfully so), they
>still subject men to the traditions that were established
>accordin' to their own slight

this is true but does not make for an absolute argument
regarding chivalry because of your inconsistent incorrect use of the term
simply for arguments sake
dimissing a definition for convenience
gives you no base in the argument
it would still be about the definition in terms because it was the term you choose to use.
please see previous statement for alternatives


>therefore, you're not allowed to primarily associate it wit'
>men

argument not proven

>step it up...

how trite...


~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..i didn't dismiss the definition, it was rendered VOID

and not by me, alone, but by society

when the definitions of rights/respect/responsibility change, so does everything else regardin' them

my original statement still stands, and while the introduction to this debate may NOT have been a thorough description of my thoughts, it was YOU that initially made the wrong assumptions

i haven't made ONE assumption in this debate: i'm speakin' from experience

FACTS

i never stated that my experiences were universal, only that this is what i see on a daily basis

the fact that your definition of the term "chivalry" doesn't fit here is concrete. (thas like tryin' state a precedent set in a historic case, yet still tryin' to use the tradition used BEFORE it)

i've already stated that chivalry is no longer gender specific, and that i don't subscribe to the former definition

check & mate...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

assumptions are not rendered solely by the receiver of the message
but by what is delivered

if your audiennce has made a leap to assumption it is a flaw in argument and communication by the deliverer for the most part

again KYA

your experience not relayed
your personal definition was not given
you basis in societies failure on chilvalry was also not stated
all from get go.

who is truly making the assumption here
from what i gather no one here reads minds

accusations of assumption on the receiver's end
mainly indicates poor skill in communication on the deliver's end

i play no games
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..an assumption is when someone wrongfully makes a judgment, without havin' all the fact or info

you made an assumption, not me

i made a statement, and have since then, back it up wit' info

if you felt there was a lack of info or evidence, its on YOU to inquire within

when i made the comment about chivalry, it was general and not specific to EITHER gender, but like most people, you immediately assumed and attributed it to MEN

from there, i countered that EXACT frame and approach is why chivalry is "non-existant"

- i'm not arguin' the definition of chivalry
- i'm not debatin' opinions on who's responsibile

perhaps, the next time you find yourself in a situation without all the necessary info, you'll ask before you assume...



____________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

already


sheesh

..heh...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

but that's ok
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

..the 1st step is usually the most critical...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

not semantics
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

why are u accusing her.. she's the sweetest, most well mannered folk i know...

cot dang it.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

what ever do u mean?

explain it to us like we're 2 years old, please.

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

the rest of it feels like an act to me

i'm about to stand trial.


feel like being an advocate?
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

plus I might be the wrong person for you.

Keep in mind I have very little use for the concept of chivalry too

are courteous and conduct yourself with honor
and it was appreciated

but i understand
and the details will probably remain obscure
for reasons of privacy
sorry to have troubled you
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

and with regards to the other thing, that was just me trying to be an adult.

I fail at that from time to time though

but the fact remains your conduct as exemplary in response

strive for the ideal is stlll to be admired
no one is perfect
everyone has their days


...
reflects on recent past post...
*stomps around*
IMA QUEEN DAMMIT
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

just out of curiosity, what's with the extra formal lfresh tonight?

feels like I'm back on the debate team again

man listen
blame bra man
on the 1st post

talk of chivalry bring out the courtesy in me in case
of misunderstandings
i'm aware of my responsibility in delivering a clear message.
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

i can't detail exactly what its changed into, but i still see the grandchildren of chivalry now and again

i deserve it

but you got the nice bussom I see...+2 pts.

u aint know

fried green tomatoes on your forehead?

..the court shall disregard that statement...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

thereby affecting his judgement.

..any more outburst out of you, and you'll be held in contempt

now, please make your case WITHOUT badgerin' ANY witnesses...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

the man dies first (c) okp mattwes
**************************************
<---Shango and Oshun...it ain't a game y'all

Where there is a woman there is magic.
--Ntozake Shange

www.myspace.com/oyin

lol @ the dudes that think it do even moreso

mwa ha ha ha evil overlord laugh even

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

you're hateful


sheesh




u need some pussy or something

don't be dense and quick to jump to conclusions.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

"now what"



just forget it

booooooo

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

u so bitter



just smile


and pretend to not be pissed off ALL the time

i'm not bitter

i am cynical maybe

slight difference

just stop taking exception to everyotherthing i say lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

what i do NOW?

i'm thinkn about everything u said..


goodness.

lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

fuck off

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

the potential obviously has a history of hate bias
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

that clearly conotes bias
unfortunately this bias would be antithetical to the code of chivalry

...
*muah*
nothing personal sir
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

chivalry is evil and anti-woman.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

i am not so silently judging you.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

but i also love reciprocation


who doesn't?


judge me all u want.. i'm sure u have a whole lil write up of everything u think i am already neway.

>but i also love reciprocation

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

so fuck your judging

who gives and gives and gives


for nothing??


everyone wants a return on their investment

>so fuck your judging

^^getting pissy, stat calm

>who gives and gives and gives
>
>
>for nothing??
>
>
>everyone wants a return on their investment


www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

u get on my nerves

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

jackass

that i don't aim to attract more than a useful amount of bees

lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

i doubt u attract any

you remind me of me in the 3rd grade spelling bee misspelling sente_ce twice when they asked me if i was sure about that lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

man forreal


just do your lastwordlastwordlastword bullshit


k?



fuck


i know who to avoid for now on


all of this cause i wanted clarification on what u said..


sheesh

a) i've read similar words from you before
b) you should have just asked for 'clarification' rather than ???/nevermind/pass/agg thing lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

but this woman, as a person on the receiving end of her courtesy and respect
gives just to give

don't mistake her confusion in your philosophy
with her actual conduct
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

less english major for me.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

don't mistake her online personae with who she is in reality
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

i am the same


i think ppl just misread my words and attitude to it and stuff

~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

she said she 'deserves' it, it being chivalry. off her own finger tips

she can be sweet as punch, but i don't recognise entitlement in any form. that shit's about as outdated and simple as rights of the first born lol. and her further clearing it up by saying she deserves it because she gives, makes her line of thinking even more unrecognisable to me

anyone feeling their are special enough to deserve anything make me scratch my head

thus, the not so silent judging

i'm not callin for her execution or nothin lol

www.fwmj.com/word
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standards for who and what u will deal with in a relationship right??


would u date a woman that cheats and is never there for u?? no. why? cause u deserve someone that will treat u better than that...


feeling like u deserve a certain kind of treatment is the same thing as setting a standard for what type of person u will date. who doesn't have standards??

>standards for who and what u will deal with in a relationship
>right??

what does htis have to do with chivalry? i have 5 friends i give a shit about (quality > quantity) and they get the bulk of my energy. aside from the occasional ego boosting with my girls, i treat both genders as equally as i can. i don't keep people around me that feel they deserve shit from me, nor do i feel they owe me anything. i just operate differently than you. it's not really up for debate :)

>would u date a woman that cheats and is never there for u??
>no. why? cause u deserve someone that will treat u better than
>that...

no. personality traits like that rear their heads long before i would ever persue or make that official and i pick up on such things. and, this sounds a little one man islandesque, but i dont really need someone to 'be there for me' lol. lucky me i have a good 5 people that are regardless.

>feeling like u deserve a certain kind of treatment is the same
>thing as setting a standard for what type of person u will
>date. who doesn't have standards??

i just dont feel i deserve anything from people i care about. i don't do or deal with entitlement in my personal relationships. at all.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

what does this have to do with chivalry and one being entitled to 'proper' treatment from me?

like, i know where you're trying to go with that train of thought, but the tracks end at the edge of a cliff dipping into a dried out canyon.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

to certain things



i like to be treated like a lady


so i date gentlemen

if i suspect what i suspect, seems like some tender foot, 2nd citizen shit in my head.

but please, list me wrong.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

i'm tired of this back and forth useless banter






its quarter to 4, i'm suppose to wake up at 5:30


=/


guess i'll just be up

just grumpy.

lol

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

list what being treated 'like a lady' to pass the time

go to sleep now, ya might oversleep

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

so u can pick apart every word i say and twist it up and make it something else?

i'll pass


goodnight

i'm just gonna silently judge, duh

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

*gives hand up out of pit*

mainly avoidance of codes and specifically a middle evil code of conduct they are saying
limits the options for the men and allows of control of a woman

traditionally speaking.
at this point that code of conduct has relaxed
and is mainly noted for being a form of courtesy extended from a man to a woman

~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

are used to avoid miscommunication and possible offense.


it is a tool
calling it good or evil
depends on who is using it
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

chivalry, as used and defined in popular culture and european folklore is sexist as far as i'm concerned, and thusly anti-woman/human bean, and further more of no use to me.

i'm nice to womenfolk sometimes and old womenfolk all the time. usually because i mean to be, not because they actually deserve it, feel they deserve it, or anyone outside our interaction feels they deserve it.

i have no use for anyone's sense of entitlement. we owe each other nothing.

people that give expecting to get somewhere down the line, no matter how far, trouble me. at least as far as personal relatioinships and friendships go. bizzyness is another monster altogether

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

you seem tired


*gives up seat*

have a seat relaaaaax
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

haha

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

*knits*
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

your blocking my light
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

but because i want to, yes i could.

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

but as for a problem
i wouldn't call you that
and we are hardly personal

but again and of course
the choice is yours
i wouldn't infer otherwise
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

even from strangers.. it's been nice.

..youdonotknowthisbutiknowthisverywellnowletmetellyou'boutthesetalesthatihavewitnessedinmyliiiiiiife

its not to say that chivalry doesn't happen, but far too often, its expected instead of appreciated

people don't even say thank you anymore

hell, i've offered seats to women, and been chastised for it...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

i do shit because i want to, not because you or anyone else feels you deserve it

www.fwmj.com/word
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj

i thoroughly appreciate acts of kindness. they will always get a smile and a thank you from me.

but i only want people to do things like that cuz they WANT to. i would hate to feel like they are doing it cuz it's some sick chore that has been ingrained into their heads.

and if the opportunity presents itself, i would do the same (hold door/give up seat/help pick up stuff/etc) for others. man or woman.

I expect you to be you...

you sound like the tale of the man, the donkey and his daughter...

in the end you gotta do what makes you happy...

i may be slow on this too but I eventually get there.

Does the chivalry continue after the fact?

Too much info...

Peace

@}-,-`-

I know the pieces fit, cause I watched them fall away. ~ Tool

True indeed, knahmsayin, but when it's real you doin this even without a record contract, knahmsayin? ~ Nas
No question! ~ AZ

http://www.soundclick.com/djbartek/

sheesh, give the otha okstr8males a chance




but some ppl still live by the code

..don't believe the hype

this ain't about gettin' props...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

.

a woman was born with two hands too

nah, I'm a nice guy

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

..but i could never take a seat from a woman

besides, i can see you JUS' fine from here...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

Now yall know its too muthafuckin early in the mornin to be carryin on with THIS bullshit...disperse niggas.

*shuffles back in my room mumblin cusswords*

lol

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<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

*wipes my face and carries my old ass back to sleep*

but your appreciation is appreciated

*clinks away in chains*
~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

And I appreciate any woman that's nice to me, the shit don't happen that often...

stop frontin

You sure you don't wanna phone a friend or somethin?

lol

!!!

I guess it was the way I was raised, but I use it...I'll open a door for a woman (regardless of her looks) or give up my seat to an old lady w/o hesitation...Stuff like that ..All w/o ulterior motives...Shit should just be natural...

I wouldn't want to be w/ a girl that didn't expect to be treated as such....Girls that don't expect jack shit from their man don't appeal at all to me....

like u dont even have to think about doing it and it doesn't feel akward like u're making yourself do it

..i never said people don't practice chivalry, i said too often its expected, and rarely appreciated

for men AND women

its no longer gender specific...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

i'm going to bed now


nite nite

walk on the correct side of the street when we leaving from anywhere or walking down the street

or ill make your short ass do it



THANKS :)
<----Thank You.
http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/mssymptoms.html



READ ME: I'S BE WRITIN'

http://brownskinlaydee.blogspot.com/

..STILL unappreciative...

__________________________
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..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

no matter how long it takes...the shit comes out in the end...

few it's very much alive!

I had to call someone out this week yo. I had to inform them to cease and desist with the fake chivalry. I knew what was up so it was no need to start fronting opening doors and shit. Niggas be forgetting pussy is free if she wants to fuck you.

..you DO know that chivalry is not specific to men anymore, right?..

__________________________
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..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

where there were obvious ulterior motives.

__________________________
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..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

well at least not in NYC

not when a grown ass man with no visible (and i dare to say inevident) disabilities will sit his big ass in a seat while a woman (be it elderly, pregnant, with a child(ren), numerous bags) stands right in front of him is is clearly struggling.

i swear somewhere along the lines while being taught how to hold up their lil wee wee's and being told that men don't cry, someone forgot to teach 'em consideration and just plain ol' kindness. or maybe they were taught but they weren't taught to hold on to those little values b/c it would make them men.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
breathe.
smile.
live.
be thankful.
give back.

http://www2.oprah.com/uyl/katrina/homes/homes_main.jhtml

http://www2.oprah.com/index_new_2005.jhtml

..NOT YOU TOO?

i was rollin' wit' ya, 'til you turned this into a gender debate (scroll up and review)

both sexes are guilty...

__________________________
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..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

there are plenty of (dare i say) women who are equally as guilty. so they're slow, stupid, and inconsiderate too.

i'll admit that i hear "chilvalry" and my thoughts immediately go to male gestures.

i see plenty of women do the same. i will admit that i think that men should do simple things like offer seats and hold doors just b/c it is the gentleman thing to do. and women out of respect, and common sense should offer seats to those in need, or hold a door, learn how to say thank you and you're welcome. yes, a lot of us think we're owed things and don't know how to show appreciation. well, my momma, grandma, uncles and aunts raised me better so i always show my appreciation. ;-)

i don't know eric, folks just got lazy and stopped teaching kids the essentials... *shrugs*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
breathe.
smile.
live.
be thankful.
give back.

http://www2.oprah.com/uyl/katrina/homes/homes_main.jhtml

http://www2.oprah.com/index_new_2005.jhtml

..its society in general

i can't think of one person i know, who's parents didn't AT LEAST try to instill common courtesy within them (granted, some of them were poor examples, but STILL)

when it comes down to it, we're all adults, and we know better

some people jus' refuse to be considerate...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

irresponisble, unaccountable parents who didn't really do all they could to instill some sort of fear and/or respect in their children. the teenagers coming up now are just all screwed up so the likelihood of these tides turning, IMO, are slim to none.

and yes, society or "social norms" can be blamed for it too. it's true that we have a small percentage of people that would actually advocate chivalry/courtesy in our area. but the decline of chivalry didn't just start i think that it's just more evident now b/c we're in position to notice it...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
breathe.
smile.
live.
be thankful.
give back.

http://www2.oprah.com/uyl/katrina/homes/homes_main.jhtml

http://www2.oprah.com/index_new_2005.jhtml

..even durin' times when chivalry seemed to thrive

the real question is when will people finally stand up and take responsibility for their own actions

every man in my family was taught respect, and most of us has adhered to that fundamental aspect of life, but their are a few who refuse to learn

is that the fault of their parent(s), or a lack of disciplinary action?

not at all

because even tho my parent(s) didn't teach me EVERYTHING, i eventually got to the point where i KNEW better. knowledge is a GREAT power and individual responsibility.

that can't be forced. its either accepted or its not

at some point, we have to realize that we cannot simply stand behind the sins of others, and must take to the world on our own...


__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

contempt these nuts maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

no homo.

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

~~~~~~~~~~~
<---some advice

PUSSY FREE WITH PUSSY OF LESSER OR EQUAL VALUE!

...the woman who would actually say "Thank you."

Just my experience anyway. I've had many a door slam into me, even when I'm carrying a heavy ass box from home (thanks Mom!) back to my room.

..when you get the time, go back and read EVERY reply to this thread...

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

Can you feel, what I feel?
Can you hear, what I hear?
Can you see what I see?
When my feet hit the streets
Whatchu know?
(Whatchu know?)
Whatchu know?
Bout Sesame Street

which surprises me cuz I've seen alot of guys my age and younger holding doors, givin up their seats (and I didn't expect that at all cuz most guys in T.O. are rude especially the younger ones) I'm caught off guard ..I remember this one guy the other day offered me his jacket ( I didn't realize this until I got to my locker cuz I didnt think he was talkin to me..I was bruk up lookin that day)...

I don't know I always say thank u and I do appreciate especially since I have to fight the door with my guy friend..plus I always give first priority to the elderly. I remember I was on the bus and it was packed but an elderly man got on and I was sitting at the front of the bus so I got up and moved. All I heard was some guy say real loud "Aww, what a nice girl.." I'm WTF it's common courtesy ..and yeah I hold doors (regardless of age) ..well if I see u strugglin ( carrying things)..I'm not gonna stand there and watch u struggle..

Breathe E.Z.

~Vee~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
....:I'm Focused, Man:....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"We had chemistry cuz she was a Cancer.." (c) Common

I still don't get that argument.

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

yo can one of the mods delete this shit?

__________________________
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

..and miles to go before i sleep... (c) frost

finding a good (wo)man is never easy

but chivalry is alive and kicking for some of us

.