http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=9600901&mesg_id=9600901&listing_type=search#9601066
----
In the last few weeks, I've had several incidents..."
Author KangolLove
In response to Reply # 0

where I'm walking behind a young couple that I assume is a pair of lesbians, a butch & a femme.

But I walk past them & see that the butch isn't a butch. It's just a dude looking like a little girl.
-----
the... pussification of the current generation of young men"
Author Orfeo_Negro
In response to Reply # 27

I'll admit that that is one thing I totally HATE.

That, and the level of wimpiness that is now not only tolerated in modern rock music, but has become the standard.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

Look, me not necessarily being the alpha jock myself, I've always rooted for the proponents of less traditional styles of masculinity, semi-nerds, etc.

But now it's just on some whole different level... I can barely think of ANY popular, contemporary rock act that does not strike me as "dweeb rock."

>Look, me not necessarily being the alpha jock myself, I've
>always rooted for the proponents of less traditional styles of
>masculinity, semi-nerds, etc.

even Buddy Holly had some swagger.

>But now it's just on some whole different level... I can
>barely think of ANY popular, contemporary rock act that does
>not strike me as "dweeb rock."

I don't know if pussification, or dweeb, seems right to me... the dominant male trait seems to be a studied, sarcastic apathy with overtones of negativity as well as 'hurt.'

But whatever.

I still wonder if my beloved Sensitive '90s are somehow to blame for this in part. Or if it goes deeper, back to California rock filtered through grunge's atonality and injured attitude.

*shrug*

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

about my statement

probably have words like "conspiracy" and "illuminati" swimming around in your head, and giving you a huge ego boost b/c it makes you feel oh so superior that you are "above" that "type of thinking"

meanwhile that's not even what i mean

but if you want to deny that the mass-media has an impact on social/cultural trends then fine, live in that bliss of yours big man...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

real and tangible...the "good" things in life

whereas masculinity, in popular culture, from action movies to gangsta rap, presents an unrealistic and unattainable view of what it is to be a "man" (everyone has to be super tough, etc.)...this would cause a reaction against this, as it is unrealistic and unattainable, and dudes become pussified b/c that actually appears more realistic to them than the hyper-masculinity that only a few men actually "attain" (and which, ironically, becomes quite homoerotic in our particular society)

add in the fact that the types of jobs in society that made men men have eroded (leaving office jobs and service jobs mainly) and this will certainly erode the presence of realistic and true masculinity in society...furthermore factor in the lack of male role models, etc.

i mean shit...you saw the troops in afghanistan doing lady gaga, right? even the supposedly most manly or men do wild homo shit w/o batting an eye (lol)

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

feminist views are no way seen as 'good'...it's still the ultimate put down society wise, id argue both stereotypes (masculine/feminine) are set up for fail.

Id even venture into your favorite territory, conspiracy nut land, and say that there is a push towards what is seen as femininity *what does this really mean* in order to push product; aka the rise of the metrosexual.

But that whole 'yo, even the troops is actin fruity' is laughable, masculinity rules the land, period, even if marketers want us to make sure we know our labels and buy the good hair gel. *and id argue homoerotic behavior and the military have always gone hand in hand, not in a negative way*

The problem is, that has NOTHING to do with this post, lol. Do you even listen to rock music, or are you just trying to whoo ride this post?

>feminist views are no way seen as 'good'...it's still the
>ultimate put down society wise, id argue both stereotypes
>(masculine/feminine) are set up for fail.

you're wrong

feminine and woman-centered views and opinions are extremely prominent and lauded in society...and i'm not making a value judgement, i'm stating facts...feminine views and woman-centered topics rule the daytime tv airwaves, they rule urban radio, and they are very, very prominent in hollywood/film and have been for sometime...

am i saying that FEMIN*ISM* runs shit...no, of course not...but (again, no value judgement) a huge portion of the popular culture that is consumed by men and women is geared towards manipulating and defining "feeling" and "emotion" which are, tradionally, viewed as more on the feminine side of the equation...

even the reasons we go to war (or the reasons why the ppl are led to accept the wars) are based on our emotional reactions to being "wronged" by "them" and getting "revenge" because our feelings are hurt...

>Id even venture into your favorite territory, conspiracy nut
>land,

there you go making assumptions and judgements and being a child again...grow the fuck up big man, this isn't about conspiracies or being a nut, this is about the facts regarding capitalist advertising and mind manipulation to convince millions upon millions to invest their time and energy into products that are not necessary, because these corporations have to sell you shit to keep their stockholders happy and in control...

and say that there is a push towards what is seen as
>femininity *what does this really mean* in order to push
>product; aka the rise of the metrosexual.


yep...they will turn men to women to make their emotions more easily manipulated so they buy products and live through consumption and shopping which, like it or not, has always been something geared towards women...

>But that whole 'yo, even the troops is actin fruity' is
>laughable, masculinity rules the land, period, even if
>marketers want us to make sure we know our labels and buy the
>good hair gel. *and id argue homoerotic behavior and the
>military have always gone hand in hand, not in a negative
>way*

lol @ "not in a negative way"...DADT is basically utter hypocrisy then? gotcha...


that was an add on, a side comment...but as is typical w/ folk like you, you try to make it somehow central to my argument...

do you ever watch tv advertisements? aside from the fact that advertising IN GENERAL and BY DEFINITION manipulates EMOTIONS, why not sit down and take a tally of what's being advertised and who things are being advertised to...

count the number of times a husband is treated as a fool compared to the wise wife who knows more than he does what to do, what to buy and how to run the family...

or either just admit you just got ur panties in a knot b/c you saw me say that the media manipulates culture and you're shook to admit to yourself that the media may actually have some cultural impact b/c, ironically, that would make you feel less of a man...

get over yourself big man

>The problem is, that has NOTHING to do with this post, lol.
>Do you even listen to rock music, or are you just trying to
>whoo ride this post?
>


doesn't matter if i listen to rock...the post that started this post was about society in general, the two reflect each other...

notice that you ignored my point about the types of jobs that men work in these days and times...

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

>I don't know if pussification, or dweeb, seems right to me...
>the dominant male trait seems to be a studied, sarcastic
>apathy with overtones of negativity as well as 'hurt.'

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

>Look, me not necessarily being the alpha jock myself, I've
>always rooted for the proponents of less traditional styles of
>masculinity, semi-nerds, etc.
>
>But now it's just on some whole different level... I can
>barely think of ANY popular, contemporary rock act that does
>not strike me as "dweeb rock."

...it's a weird ass time to be in, I tell you what.

It's not as if under the right lighting you wouldn't think Led Zep weren't a couple of groupie chicks.


But the current levels I do agree seemed to be tied up with a general fear of anything masculine in rock. It's become unbalanced: as much as I love alot of the musical ideas in indie rock, it's a bit sad that 90% of it sounds like it should be on 70's AM radio.

It's like, people are afraid of distortion peddles.



>
>
>
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=9600901&mesg_id=9600901&listing_type=search#9601066
>----
>In the last few weeks, I've had several incidents..."
>Author KangolLove
>In response to Reply # 0
>
>where I'm walking behind a young couple that I assume is a
>pair of lesbians, a butch & a femme.
>
>But I walk past them & see that the butch isn't a butch. It's
>just a dude looking like a little girl.
>-----
>the... pussification of the current generation of young men"
>Author Orfeo_Negro
>In response to Reply # 27
>
>I'll admit that that is one thing I totally HATE.
>
>That, and the level of wimpiness that is now not only
>tolerated in modern rock music, but has become the standard.

I mean, a lot of modern rock barely has basslines

And I don't know the last time I heard a memorable solo.

It's just all that fucking miserable strumming and wimpy yelping. Shit is depressing.

>I mean, a lot of modern rock barely has basslines
>
>And I don't know the last time I heard a memorable solo.
>
>It's just all that fucking miserable strumming and wimpy
>yelping. Shit is depressing.

or well-produced? well-written?

My disdain (with a few exceptions) for most of the new acoustic music ca. 2008 is pretty well-noted for a lot of those reasons.

I haven't listened to enough indie rock over the past few years to know.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

but it starts to bleed together. Ill let a indie rock playlist go for my girl who somewhat diverse musical tastes, and she can't tell the difference between the bands and sometimes the songs themselves, LOL.

There was an interesting interview with trent reznor who said how he wished he couldda been doing some of that stuff, but it wasn't 'cool' back then. I found it and ill past it below:

"I saw Sufjan Stevens last year, and I was like, how is his singing that good? The band Grizzly Bear, I think they’re excellent. There’s a beauty and a musicality there that I wish would have been in vogue in the late ‘80s, when I was forming bands. The aesthetic I was tuned into was a more dumbed-down kind of thing. Sometimes listening to stuff like they’re doing makes me feel irrelevant. That’s a nice, healthy kick in the ass. And it’s interesting to see there’s room for that in what’s considered hip these days." - Trent Reznor

My thing is, it IS what is considered hip, bar none. If someone started a genuine , angry aggressive indie rock act...I don't know if anyone would care. You've got your punk bands like No Age or Fucked Up that have made some waves, but even then imho there's something 'safe' about it that shouldn't be there.





>>I mean, a lot of modern rock barely has basslines
>>
>>And I don't know the last time I heard a memorable solo.
>>
>>It's just all that fucking miserable strumming and wimpy
>>yelping. Shit is depressing.
>
>or well-produced? well-written?
>
>My disdain (with a few exceptions) for most of the new
>acoustic music ca. 2008 is pretty well-noted for a lot of
>those reasons.
>
>I haven't listened to enough indie rock over the past few
>years to know.
>
>

>
>"I saw Sufjan Stevens last year, and I was like, how is his
>singing that good? The band Grizzly Bear, I think they’re
>excellent. There’s a beauty and a musicality there that I wish
>would have been in vogue in the late ‘80s, when I was forming
>bands. The aesthetic I was tuned into was a more dumbed-down
>kind of thing.

Why is "wimpiness" and softness seen as "smart" whereas aggression and cheer "AAARGH" is viewed as stupid and non-musical by default regardless of what you do with it? Noone expect or even want to hear blastbeats and crushing riffs on a Grizzly Bear album so why do more "heavy" music constantly need to add "softer" aspects in order to be validated? That Trent Reznor say shit like this is not surprising though...

Anyway, this is part of the problem because the "smart" and "literate" indie-dudes were not always enemies of the less wimpy (see:Steve Albini and Ian McKaye for textbook examples). nowadays, i think big black would have been viewed as a metal-band because there's simply no place in indie for that type of music anymore´which of course also explain why bands like pelican, sunn0 and isis are viewed as metal...

>Why is "wimpiness" and softness seen as "smart" whereas
>aggression and cheer "AAARGH" is viewed as stupid and
>non-musical by default regardless of what you do with it?
>Noone expect or even want to hear blastbeats and crushing
>riffs on a Grizzly Bear album so why do more "heavy" music
>constantly need to add "softer" aspects in order to be
>validated?

I've never been able to get into truly 'hard' music and I feel like most people who like it had to first overcome some natural aversion to it. Not because it's bad music, but because somewhere deep inside our inner caveman is like 'Don't go near that shit. That shit sounds crazy'

Why soft music gets to be 'smart', I have no idea. Because it seems more logical and less emotional? Does it get associated with 'restraint' which in turn gets associated with 'sophistication'? Can we blame Europe? I like when we do that.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

I just think it's the trends. Maybe it's blowback from how grunge morphed into testosterone hard rock which morphed into even more testosterone heavy rap-rock.

Thing is, the garage rock thing in the early 2000's was a good balance: The Strokes were a bunch of pretty boys but there was a feeling they would try to fuck your girl if you left her around them(at least musically).

Since then...dunno. It's why someone like Sleigh Bells I like now even though ten years ago I wouldda thought it sucked: they are actually trying to play LOUD and aggressive even with the lack of musicianship/fake hipster cred.

It's why I give MIA a pass because she's probably one of the 'harder' artists out there, ROFL.



>I mean, a lot of modern rock barely has basslines
>
>And I don't know the last time I heard a memorable solo.
>
>It's just all that fucking miserable strumming and wimpy
>yelping. Shit is depressing.
>
>

>It's why I give MIA a pass because she's probably one of the
>'harder' artists out there, ROFL.

Didn't you give me shit for saying this? I may have used the word 'punk' instead of 'harder' though.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

Heads Up:
http://comeclean.avanturb.com
http://protoheads.avanturb.com
http://vanguard.avanturb.com

It would be nice to have some genuine musicianship behind it all. Being noisy and political was kinda mandatory in rock music at a point, now it's like, we gotta hand medals out for it.

I remember reading a review for a Vampire Weekend show; the review liked them but noticed how the sound didn't work for the venue (this was after Contra, so im guessing they are probably playing 5k+ type places on the regular).

Anyway, the review spent a paragraph praising the drummer cause it seemed he was the only one that knew he was in a rock band, lol. It was a line like "Drummer (i don't know his name) picked his bandmates up and carried them and the show on his back to give the audience a real rock show."

You can tell it with the one mandatory 'punk track they throw on their albums...in particular Cousins where he goes the fuck off for once...how how much those tracks stand out in comparison to the rest of their work.

The missing low end is a BIG BIG problem

>It's not as if under the right lighting you wouldn't think
>Led Zep weren't a couple of groupie chicks.

Chicks always LOVED it. I never understood why a man with huge hair, eye makeup and rouge was sexy, but *shrug*

That's maybe the one pre-grunge major mainstream pop element that hasn't made a big comeback (in mainstream circles). At any rate, the look today is a far cry from David Lee Roth or the New York Dolls.

>But the current levels I do agree seemed to be tied up with a
>general fear of anything masculine in rock. It's become
>unbalanced: as much as I love alot of the musical ideas in
>indie rock, it's a bit sad that 90% of it sounds like it
>should be on 70's AM radio.

I love a lot of '70s AM radio, but I do agree with AF that even guys like Loggins & Messina had muscle.

I'm not so sure about Air Supply, though.

>It's like, people are afraid of distortion peddles.

I think it's more basic than that.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

>I think it's more basic than that.
>

and personal interactions not also apply to the writing of lyrics and melodies, instrumental technique and production standards?


(I'm not entirely certain that it does, and there are certainly exceptions, even bands I don't care for.)

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

check out this fabulous trainwreck of a post if you haven't
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2322624&mesg_id=2322624&listing_type=search

look who catches feelings in it. ha ha.

Cool...

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

Indie is the norm for the rock that is hyped nowadays and indie-music is still passed through the same tired-ass post-punk filter regarding singing, musicianship etc. It doesn't matter if the artists are inspired by Steely Dan or Beach Boys or Toto (LOL!) or whatever; in one way or another, it must always be a bit ragged, whimsy, ironic, post-modern, passive, a bit off, musically non-flashy (after all, being good at your instrument and showcasing it is cheesy) etc.

we mostly talk on hiphop but... its all these young kids

masculinity is at a minimum in 2010

*********************
www.dumhi.com

So do I, actually

*puts 'Zebra' on repeat*

this post reeks of blustery revisionism. bowie, prince, most hair metal groups, world class wrecking crew, melle mel and a zillion other effete musicans are rolling in their vagina-shaped graves.

LOOK AT THE HIPSTER FAGZ BELOW!

http://christinerenee.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/nwa_panic_zone_ice_cube_easy_e_dr_dre_arabian_prince_1987_01.jpg

>LOOK AT THE HIPSTER FAGZ BELOW!
>
>http://christinerenee.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/nwa_panic_zone_ice_cube_easy_e_dr_dre_arabian_prince_1987_01.jpg

http://frecuenciax.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/motley20crue_crue20fest.jpg

>
>>LOOK AT THE HIPSTER FAGZ BELOW!
>>
>>http://christinerenee.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/nwa_panic_zone_ice_cube_easy_e_dr_dre_arabian_prince_1987_01.jpg
>

lol @ Eazy in that picture, though. he made me laugh the most.

I think that the prominent manifestation of masculinity in western society is an immature masculinity of male domination and patriarchy. Trying to control and dominate out of fear and insecurity. I think that there has been a rightful backlash against that, but because of there being so few male role models who are manifesting their masculinity in a mature and positive way, the only alternative these type of men the post is talking about see is the feminine, and thus they turn to that. They see the overly macho, harmful, but really insecure inside person and don't want to be that, and don't see a masculine alternative, however there is a masculine alternative, it just isn't represented adequately in the society so people don't see that example to follow.

There is a book called King, Warrior, Magician, Lover which goes into Jungian archetypes and talks about what I was just mentioning. It talks about how most men are in a state of "boy psychology" and manifest their masculinity in an immature way, and how the rise of certain viewpoints which negate masculinity altogether is not helping that, just leading to men who are still in the boy psychology, but just manifesting themselves in a feminine way i.e. the hipster pussified types. The new "cool" becomes to not be masculine at all. The solution = mature masculinity, and getting in touch with the "man psychology," learning the positive traits of manhood that are not distasteful as the manifestation of boy psychology are, but also not overly feminine. Mature masculinity is severely underrepresented, and people copy, or choose not to copy, what they see, and all people see for the most part is immature masculinity, and femininity, so they don't have all the choices available to them until they learn better.

www.culturestarter.com
http://twitter.com/culturestarter

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

(not saying that in a sarcastic hipster way, but sincere.)

> They see the overly macho, harmful, but really insecure
>inside person and don't want to be that, and don't see a
>masculine alternative, however there is a masculine
>alternative, it just isn't represented adequately in the
>society so people don't see that example to follow.

Replace 'society' with 'pop culture' and I may agree more. There are plenty of great male role models - masculine without being macho - in society at large. But I agree that's an 'average' role that's not celebrated.

>The new "cool" becomes to not be masculine at all. The
>solution = mature masculinity, and getting in touch with the
>"man psychology," learning the positive traits of manhood that
>are not distasteful as the manifestation of boy psychology
>are, but also not overly feminine.

While I think AF's presentation of the problem is a bit overblown, I will point out that most of the 'pussified hipster types' ARE actually kids. I was certainly different at 22-25, but I'm not certain I was any more mature. Who's to say how I would have been if I were that age today?

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

It's interesting, I live in hipster/indie central Athens, GA, and I see 30-40+ cats dressing and carrying themselves like that. I think they see that that is what the kids are doing and do it to try to stay relevant, especially musicians who are aging and still pursuing a career in it so they think they have to look the part.

www.culturestarter.com
http://twitter.com/culturestarter

He's not anymore b/c he slept with a 16 year old student. Who had braces. While his wife was pregnant.

Make of that what you will, but to me it says: some guys just never grow up.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

>He's not anymore b/c he slept with a 16 year old student. Who
>had braces. While his wife was pregnant.
>
>Make of that what you will, but to me it says: some guys just
>never grow up.
>
>

>He's not anymore b/c he slept with a 16 year old student. Who
>had braces.

>Make of that what you will, but to me it says: some guys just
>never grow up.

erase the age from that, and I still would have been in an "age 16" state of mind just on GP because of that

but for some reason, they do

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

_______________
Gooner

"This is dedicated to whom it may concern."-Donny Hathaway

fuck you.

It sounds like some decent rap to bed a Hester Prynne type, but yeah, no.



>I think that the prominent manifestation of masculinity in
>western society is an immature masculinity of male domination
>and patriarchy. Trying to control and dominate out of fear and
>insecurity. I think that there has been a rightful backlash
>against that, but because of there being so few male role
>models who are manifesting their masculinity in a mature and
>positive way, the only alternative these type of men the post
>is talking about see is the feminine, and thus they turn to
>that. They see the overly macho, harmful, but really insecure
>inside person and don't want to be that, and don't see a
>masculine alternative, however there is a masculine
>alternative, it just isn't represented adequately in the
>society so people don't see that example to follow.
>
>There is a book called King, Warrior, Magician, Lover which
>goes into Jungian archetypes and talks about what I was just
>mentioning. It talks about how most men are in a state of "boy
>psychology" and manifest their masculinity in an immature way,
>and how the rise of certain viewpoints which negate
>masculinity altogether is not helping that, just leading to
>men who are still in the boy psychology, but just manifesting
>themselves in a feminine way i.e. the hipster pussified types.
>The new "cool" becomes to not be masculine at all. The
>solution = mature masculinity, and getting in touch with the
>"man psychology," learning the positive traits of manhood that
>are not distasteful as the manifestation of boy psychology
>are, but also not overly feminine. Mature masculinity is
>severely underrepresented, and people copy, or choose not to
>copy, what they see, and all people see for the most part is
>immature masculinity, and femininity, so they don't have all
>the choices available to them until they learn better.

I think I recall this type of thinking back in elementary school. I thought I had graduated.

www.culturestarter.com
http://twitter.com/culturestarter

as angry as i got today seeing some black kid with a high top and skinny jeans in 5-10 years time people his age will have rebelled against his generation and be back to making some dirty, sexy bassline heavy rock.

I keep saying it but im looking forwrd to the 90's revival when it gets here cos (and i know im gonna get flack for this but) most of the shit that happened in the 80s was just plain dumb.

That said i am a big fan of grizzly bear but have the good sense to be more likely to rock a NIN tee than a plaid one

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

chicks be smackin' them rock and roll dudes around in the UK...
got straight dudes watching sex and the city and shit...

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://slickshoes.bandcamp.com
http://thephilosophy.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/spread-1
http://soundcloud.com/spreaducation
http://twitter.com/Spready4DaWorld

whilst i enjoy the odd episode of sex and the city i've never been beat up by no chicks

americans invented this current spell of indie rock

if anything, Oasis was the last "Fuck you if you don't like us" band of the 90's.


Dude. Fistfighting ON STAGE? with your own brother? That's some rock and roll shit if EVER there was.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

I honestly can't take most of this wispy indie-rock bullshit for that reason.

I think my boy Cobain may have been an early purveyor of some of this attitude, a more feminist/sensistive/wounded persona was an antidote to the cock-rock parodying in full sway at the dawn of the nineties but the bottom line is the guitars/bass/drums were still hitting & he was still shredding his vocals with screams of righteous indignation.

Then this got taken to the next extreme with the awful Mookish Rap-Rock of the end of the decade.

A decidely more low-rent/authentic approach was undoubtedly necessary after that but rather than the garage-y sound of the early part of that decade (Hives, Stripes, Strokes, etc) carrying the water it seems like by this point 'rock' has become even more muted & emo than this current wave of Drake-esque stuff that's being called hip-hop.

Y'all can co-sign that bullshit if you want to as if that proves you're still down & open to the youthful expression that all music movements stem from but I'm from the 'Gimme Danger, Little Stranger' school of rock & roll thought.

I'll sit this wave out & wait til they start making the shit that frightens parents & principals again.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

>Then this got taken to the next extreme with the awful Mookish
>Rap-Rock of the end of the decade.
>

In the 80's, you had "rocking" (well...) bands like Poison, De4f Leppard, Warrant, Bon Jovi and the admittedly great Guns'n'roses all over the charts and yet High-brow critics and hipsters/fans were still giving props to genuinely rocking bands like Husker Du, Pixies and Dinosaur Jr. Nu-metal/rap-rock *SHOULDN'T* be an issue because "noone" took those bands seriously in the first place...

i grew up listening to rock radio, but when nu-metal hit i found the stations no longer bearable to me, so i stopped listening. while i'm not sad that style died out for the most part, i don't greatly prefer the practically polar opposite music made in its wake and don't appreciate the notion of the superiority of this music to everything else in rock right now. there is still room for everything to coexist and be appreciated just like back then, but there's less acceptance toward anything you didn't have to hear about on a blog. the music being made isn't limited, it's just become a case of the meek inheriting the earth and oppressing most music with balls.

We had national radio with 3 channels (only 1 played popular music) modelled after the BBC and couple that with a socialist attitude, it meant that the "black music" show Soul Corner HAD to play everything from Alexander O'Neal and Janet Jackson to BDP and Ultramagnetics, the metal show Rock Box everything from Whitesnake to Bathory, the indie show Bommen everything from the Smiths to Big Black, the world music show everything from Les Mysteries voix bulgaries (sp?) to Yellowman.

I was often envious as a kid when i read about how many TV shows and radio channelsm americans had but when I think about it, I was exposed to all trypes of music with a minimum of effort...

in fairness, i had a not that dissimilar experience. the main rock station i listened to had great variety, everything from bob marley to punk/new wave/college rock to grunge to white/fratboy rap (beasties, cypress, HoP) to britpop to industrial rock to "electronica" to swing and ska. IMO, that's how an american commercial rock station should be. it wasn't until limp bizkit and linkin park came along that this station suddenly went one direction, and a rather dull one at that. nu-metal/rap-rock was huuuuuge here and inescapable for anyone who was accustomed to listening to current rock music on the radio or tv. i really think that's what prompted the reaction we're still in the midst of now.

.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

>I'll sit this wave out & wait til they start making the shit
>that frightens parents & principals again.

I mean..rock is 60 years old. Your parents and principals are probably Ramones fans. As far as mainstream goes, Marilyn Manson brought shock & awe to it's logical conclusion. Outside of dressing like a flamer which seems to always freak people out, nothings really gunna work unless you go GG Allin with it.

Rock and hip-hop have really lost their ability to be subversive and "frightening." To be real, it's up the kids at this point to make some NEW genre to disrupt the status quo. Are they capable of that or too tranquilized off of Iphones and Wiis? We'll see.

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

image I think everything has been beaten to death. Sounds tho...I mean, people are still making things that sound scary/dangerous.

I remember reading a review for 'Burn Piano Island Burn' by The Blood Brothers and I remember the reviewer saying that it was nice to have an album that would scare parents and teachers again. While they looked like the textbook androgynous kids we are talking about, at least their heavy use of dissonance and noise imho was pretty edgy and dangerous, especially since they were doing what they did when emo ruled in punk

but yeah, if that ability seems hopeless in hip-hop now as LD's reply gave a nod-&-wink to this archived post with his reply http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=126995&mesg_id=126995&listing_type=search than it's probably even more so true in rock.

But shit, at least *aspire* to do it a little bit.....or better yet create some new genre of music that old folks can hate on.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

This sort of relates to how I was feeling about some of the Afghan Whigs' material, that it portrays masculinity in a way I find more authentic to my own experience, not hyper-masculine or overly sensitive, but somewhere in the middle ---which even then appears misogynist to some.

Interestingly, some artists that are more overtly or stereotypically 'gay' also seem to display some of the masculine energy I find more authentic, thinking of the scissor sisters which were name dropped above. A bit exaggerated in their presentation, and not strictly rock, but I get a sense it's more masculine than a lot of the indie rock and related culture. I admit I have not thought it through enough to define what 'masculine' means to me, exactly, I just don't find it synonymous with heterosexuality.

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http://soundcloud.com/ajiav
http://www.last.fm/user/ajiav

Games without front ears / born without ears

Curt Kobain and co. were often held up as people who killed the whole sexist/macho vibe that a lot of rock had in the 60's-80's but at the same time, "grunge" was some of the most "hetero-normal" rock music ever; both in terms of visual presentation but also the music as well (a lack of flair, the theatrical, bombastic etc.-aspects that are pretty "gay" or at least quirky). It's not a coincidence that Pantera (metal without flair or "cheese"), rap-rock/nu-metal/whatever (jockish as fuck) or the whole Creed/Nickelback/whatever crap (asexual) broke through in its wake.

Was trying to think about it a little more over lunch today, contrasting what I roughly figure masculinity to be (earthy, physical, mechanical, etc) against idealized feminine traits (ethereal, emotional, creative, etc) and even these don't seem wholly commensurate with the kind of modern masculinity discussed in this topic ("studied, sarcastic apathy with overtones of negativity as well as 'hurt.'"). It's not as if the masculine has become feminine so much as become distorted. The grunge stuff discussed here seems appropos in relation to these convolutions that have developed, and I also find your comment above incredibly insightful re: Isis and others being categorized as 'metal' due to rock music having strained out the traditionally masculine edge, it explains something to me as to why I have been preferring that version of rock music.

Was also trying to clarify some of my thoughts by imagining a comparable distortion of femininity. The best I could think of off the top, though not rock, was L'il Kim --- despite playing up her female physicality, she is in fact SO physical in demeanor and image that at some point it stops feeling sexy, crosses into a masculine territory that can never be fully masculine since her image is so contingent upon her womanhood.

And then of course we all have some of the opposite in us, if you're a man and significantly into art and music you may have some of the feminine, creative side in you, while many successful women may require a particularly dominant personality in order to cut a path through the patriarchy.

Having trouble deciding if these kinds of distortions are truly "distortions," or if they only seem like it when held up against a prior standard.

-------

http://soundcloud.com/ajiav
http://www.last.fm/user/ajiav

Games without front ears / born without ears

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

Heads Up:
http://comeclean.avanturb.com
http://protoheads.avanturb.com
http://vanguard.avanturb.com

He had some effeminate poses, but they were largely cheeky and self-conscious... Tauting almost.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

Hasn't been much in the Lesson for me recently so I thought this might bomb, but a lot of the responses and back-and-forths are thoughtful.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

>Hasn't been much in the Lesson for me recently so I thought
>this might bomb, but a lot of the responses and
>back-and-forths are thoughtful.

apart from the "let's bait mistermaxxx" stuff... the "in-depth" discussion in this post has been most welcome!

>apart from the "let's bait mistermaxxx" stuff... the
>"in-depth" discussion in this post has been most welcome!

btw my apologises about questioning the junior/ linx link, i was very wrong, i asked him and he confirmed, my bad

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

>btw my apologises about questioning the junior/ linx link, i
>was very wrong, i asked him and he confirmed, my bad

Tell me more!

so i sent him a message and he replied, he was the bands vocalist 81/82, so i'm assuming thats post David Grant right ?

.....
NEW PRINCE MIX : SHUT UP, ALREADY, JAM !!

http://allyal3.podOmatic.com

Check Mixcloud Also >> http://www.mixcloud.com/AllyAl3000/

i might post my own thoughts on this if i can formulate them sensibly.

<--- Big Baller World Order

At least it isn't for me

Because as it's been pointed out, Prince, Bowie, Jagger, etc. could all be pretty androgynous at times. Thing is, even if you had your suspicions about who they were fucking, there was never a doubt in your mind that they were in fact fucking. Some of this new stuff though? It just feels completely asexual. I think that's the problem. Even a bunch of feminine dudes would be a step up, because at least there's some sexuality to it.

But this?

http://somedaysoon.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/sufjan-stevens.jpg

That's not feminine to me, really. And it passed 'dweeby' up like 12 exits ago. It's post-modern, it's post-grunge, it's post-irony, it's post-Morrisey. In fact it's pretty much post-everything, and therefore has nothing to look forward to. So it sulks in the corner, dickless, wondering why everything sucks.

I get it, because for a minute there the sex in rock n roll got blown up to cartoonish proportions. There was bound to be a backlash at some point. Take comfort in knowing that sooner or later, a new generation of young men will look at the trends of today, and, embarrassed (rightfully so), will forge ahead to once again rock out with their cocks out.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

>But this?
>
>http://somedaysoon.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/sufjan-stevens.jpg

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct