Like I say --

There's lots of sanctimonious bitch shit going on in the
lesson right now.

Death happens, y'all. Feel sad, reflect, deal with it your
way. Move on.

I actually went back and started looking at all the fucking
songs that DJ Premier is responsible for.


Two thoughts:

a) Man, Guru was great.


b) Man, was Guru lucky he ever met DJ Premier.


NY State of Mind beat?

Memory Land beat?

The WHOLE Jeru album?

Return of the Boom Bap(several beats)?

3 beats on Reasonable Doubt?

The 'Unbelievable' beat by BIG?

Bone Thugs '1st of the Month' beat?

2 all time great Fat Joe Beats?

The Crooklyn Dodgers beat?


I mean, is this nigga serious?


I'm so glad Guru decided to go out like a bitch, because
I have newfound respect for the true genius of Gangstarr.

Props to DJ Premier, the greatest of all time.








----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

_________________

Why?




























































































































































Why art thou mad?
----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

Cmon.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

----

THFC
F1
MotoGP

Premo's production is amazing.

Dude's a fucking cornball live...but his studio work is unmatched.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

>Premo's production is amazing.
>
>Dude's a fucking cornball live...but his studio work is
>unmatched.

Trying to shit on Premier is completely bitchmade, sorry.

But if it was, then yeah I'd agree.

I thought you were, surprisingly, talking about him dying of cancer and in a seemingly homosexual relationship. My bad.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

>I thought you were, surprisingly, talking about him dying of
>cancer and in a seemingly homosexual relationship. My bad.

Good god, no.


----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

If he DID write that...I couldn't agree more. Other than that...I take it all back.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

I thought it was clear that he wrote it.

----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

Especially since A) It reads as if it were written by someone WAY below Guru's intelligence and B) Guru's family has said he never came out of the coma back in February.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

Mainly because of his interactions with OKP, but I've just now realised that it was probably Solar at work back then too lol.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=104309&mesg_id=104309&listing_type=search

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=68062&mesg_id=68062&listing_type=search

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

Seems Solar has been doing all his media PR/talking since about '05 or so. Reading all the other stuff, IE Premo's account, seeing the interviews, etc...I just have to think Solar was behind the letter, Twitter, OKP account, and everything that was released publicly. Guru mighta hated Premo...but I can't think a dying man would release such venom at someone he created TIMELESS music with (and Jazzmatazz is far from fucking timeless...cmon).

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

back then when Guru was on here acting a damn fool I thought the shit was strange.

not that I knew Guru AT all, but the way those posts were written just didn't match up with the way I perceived Guru to be.

The tone of the post just struck me as funny.

and it did a lot of people, which is why they started to clown him back then.

Solar is the fucking clown.

I always say, Pete Rock it the best in my opinion, but I have to give the number 1 spot to Primo because his discography is unmatched.

if you ever try to make a Best of Primo mix...shit ends up being like 5+ discs BEFORE you get to the Gang Starr catalogue.

no other producer is really close in my opinion. maybe you can argue RZA, but he did very little outside production. 1 joint for Big, 1 joint for Pun and 1 joint for AZ, other than that, it was all Wu and Wu-affiliates.

>I always say, Pete Rock it the best in my opinion, but I have
>to give the number 1 spot to Primo because his discography is
>unmatched.

Yep

>if you ever try to make a Best of Primo mix...shit ends up
>being like 5+ discs BEFORE you get to the Gang Starr
>catalog.

Indeed

>no other producer is really close in my opinion. maybe you
>can argue RZA, but he did very little outside production. 1
>joint for Big, 1 joint for Pun and 1 joint for AZ, other than
>that, it was all Wu and Wu-affiliates.

Nah, RZA is up there, but he not seeing Primo


----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

I've made seven volumes of Premier mixes. The shit just never stops.

I've always said if you take Premier's 10 best beats and put them against Pete's 10 best, Pete would win hands down.

But it is the body of work that does it for Primo. Nobody has been as dope as he has been for as long with as many songs to back it up. As I said before, the shit just never stops.

this almost implies that DJ Premier could have made Gang Starr with another MC and I disagree with that notion.

Before Guru's death, I have maintained that Gang Starr was a partnership, and both sides benefitted from each other's input. Premier needed Guru as much as Guru needed Premier. Though, toward the end it was obvious that there was a disconnect, so it was prolly for the better they weren't recording together. Guru brought the "Gang Starr" name with him from Boston (I have a CD by a Boston rap group called POSSE NFX, in it they reference the Gang St*rr Posse, which is probably related to Guru's Boston roots but is most likely not related to Guru and Premier's group), and when he and Premier teamed up it became their calling card.

When I was a young dude latching on to rap music unlike any of the -other- music that was offered my generation and discovered Gang Starr, I thought "Gang Starr" was Guru's name until I bought an album.


Since their split, Premier has failed to find the kind of synergy with one MC that he did with Guru for an LP's worth of tunes (no Rundgren-o). I think the strongest candidates nowadays are Royce (and really, the two of them should make an EP or some shit), M.O.P. (Premier only gave them one song on their last album), and Blaq Poet (though he is nowhere near as strong and topical a MC as Guru). The rest have been hired gun type deals (the thing that's given Premier his reputation) that sounded cool for the 4 or so minutes the song was playing.

and we all know how Guru and the Super Pooper's shit turned out. (Guru should have produced his own shit, IMO)

So yeah, it's sad that there will never be another Gang Starr record, but let's not pretend that Premier could ever do some Commodores shit and try to replace Lionel Richie.

I should also mention that by the time of "Step in the arena" (where Guru sounded perfectly current by the standards of the time, maybe even a bit ahead of it), not many people were talking about DJ Premier-his status as *the* super-producer didn't really come until later (94-95 or so even if his songs on "return of the Boombap" might have made him a name in hardcore Hip-Hop circles before that outside of the Gang Starr context) and Gang Starr were considered heavyweights WAY before that.

Basdically, this was a "band" in the true meaning of the word and I don't really like when people are saying that it was all Premier and Guru was just along for the ride...

Ain't nobody shittin on GURU, but y'all niggas need
to fall BACK with the revisionist history


>I should also mention that by the time of "Step in the arena"
>(where Guru sounded perfectly current by the standards of the
>time, maybe even a bit ahead of it), not many people were
>talking about DJ Premier-his status as *the* super-producer
>didn't really come until later (94-95 or so even if his songs
>on "return of the Boombap" might have made him a name in
>hardcore Hip-Hop circles before that outside of the Gang Starr
>context) and Gang Starr were considered heavyweights WAY
>before that.

Uh.

No shit, sherlock. It took Premier time to get famous.

But one question pretty much deads this debate:


a) How many aritsts asked Primo to guest produce their
shit?


b) How many artists asked GURU to kick cameo verses
on their shit?































End of discussion.

I mean, GURU ripped that Digable Planets verse on
the second album, and a couple of other guest spots

Primo is STILL a hot commodity


No comparison

>Basdically, this was a "band" in the true meaning of the word
>and I don't really like when people are saying that it was all
>Premier and Guru was just along for the ride...

No, it wasn't.

It was mostly Primo.

Cry.


----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

Fall back, and act like you know.

>b) How many artists asked GURU to kick cameo verses
>on their shit?

why is this even a relevant question? The height of Gang Starr's popularity ('90-'94) was a time when cameo verses were NOT the rule of the industry. so if you saw Guru on someone else's shit it was a bigger deal than it is now.

as it relates to THIS question...


>a) How many aritsts asked Primo to guest produce their
>shit?

the height of Premier's days as hired gun was during the days where Gang Starr took a 4-year hiatus between albums.

it was really his work on RETURN OF THE BOOM-BAP, and more importantly, ILLMATIC and READY TO DIE (lol @ REASONABLE DOUBT... it was an ill album, no doubt, but its place in the pantheon of "blockbuster" albums of the period is revisionism of the highest order... people checked it out when it released but it was more of a sleeper hit/head's album... UNTIL Jay's brand was built years later) that got everyone calling Premier's name.

Premier's side work prior to 1994 was mostly in the Pete Rock realm; remixes, and one-off songs on random albums. And for that, Pete Rock was way more known.

the "Premier is the main attraction" thing really only came into play by the time MOMENT OF TRUTH dropped and forward. Then, Premier was doing shit on everyone's albums.

shit had changed by then. "Outside Production" (where the beats came from people outside of their usual circle of artists) was in vogue. Shit used to be advertised on album covers. ILLMATIC set it off, READY TO DIE made it popular.

I mean, you know this. The Doc don't even have to tell you.

>>b) How many artists asked GURU to kick cameo verses
>>on their shit?
>
>why is this even a relevant question? The height of Gang
>Starr's popularity ('90-'94) was a time when cameo verses were
>NOT the rule of the industry. so if you saw Guru on someone
>else's shit it was a bigger deal than it is now.
>
>as it relates to THIS question...
>
>
>>a) How many aritsts asked Primo to guest produce their
>>shit?
>
>the height of Premier's days as hired gun was during the days
>where Gang Starr took a 4-year hiatus between albums.
>
>it was really his work on RETURN OF THE BOOM-BAP, and more
>importantly, ILLMATIC and READY TO DIE (lol @ REASONABLE
>DOUBT... it was an ill album, no doubt, but its place in the
>pantheon of "blockbuster" albums of the period is revisionism
>of the highest order... people checked it out when it released
>but it was more of a sleeper hit/head's album... UNTIL Jay's
>brand was built years later) that got everyone calling
>Premier's name.
>
>Premier's side work prior to 1994 was mostly in the Pete Rock
>realm; remixes, and one-off songs on random albums. And for
>that, Pete Rock was way more known.
>
>the "Premier is the main attraction" thing really only came
>into play by the time MOMENT OF TRUTH dropped and forward.
>Then, Premier was doing shit on everyone's albums.
>
>shit had changed by then. "Outside Production" (where the
>beats came from people outside of their usual circle of
>artists) was in vogue. Shit used to be advertised on album
>covers. ILLMATIC set it off, READY TO DIE made it popular.
>
>I mean, you know this. The Doc don't even have to tell you.




But didn't Illmatic and Return of the Boom Bap Ready to Die come out during that 90-94 period when Gang Starr was at their height?

Primo was a busy dude during that time.


Nas sure managed to get a gang of cameos, Busta too during that period



I kinda agree that Premier was the hot commodity, there was a period where EVERYONE seemed to have to have a Primo beat to validate being hip-hop


Guru might not have seen himself as a cameo type of dude but had he given Nas or Biggie the instrumentals of Hard to Earn as their canvas, man PLEASE!!!

>Guru might not have seen himself as a cameo type of dude but
>had he given Nas or Biggie the instrumentals of Hard to Earn
>as their canvas, man PLEASE!!!

Niggas dicks get hard, no homo, at the very thought of
Big spitting over those Hard 2 Earn beats.

Niggas can kick and scream all they want to, but if Big
or Nas had those beats, they would have roasted them way
harder than Guru did.

I think niggas get sensitive because they think I'm saying
that Guru wasn't nice or interesting or dope in his own
right.

He most certainly was.

But niggas are being retards if they don't admit that Big
spitting of Hard 2 Earn wouldn't have been at least a full
mic better in quality than Guru spittin over them beats

I mean, serious

Primo didn't even give BIg or Nas his best heat, and their
songs over Primo beats are STILL some of their best songs,
some of the best songs ever. Why? Because of the LYRICS.

Primo gave Guru a lot of his BEST shit, and all we got is
a series of solid-very good albums.

Once again, you're disrespecting Guru's legacy and not recognizing the weight of his accomplishments.

We have evidence because Nas and Big ripped RANDOM
DJ PREMIER beats. ALL OF THEIR SONGS are damn near
all time great songs. ALL OF THEM.

Guru? Has great, all time great songs. Has loads of
snooze material with great beats.

Guru made mostly good songs with all of Primo's best beats.

Nas and Big made great songs with Primo's good beats.

Cry

----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

FOH with your cherry-picking bullshit argument.

Don't tell me "We have evidence." Lay it out for me.

You think you're right. You're not.

>We have evidence because Nas and Big ripped RANDOM
>DJ PREMIER beats. ALL OF THEIR SONGS are damn near
>all time great songs. ALL OF THEM.

All how many? You realize that Guru made something like 20 times more songs over Premier beats? That's supposed to be to his DISADVANTAGE? What the fuck kind of argument is that?

>Guru? Has great, all time great songs. Has loads of
>snooze material with great beats.

Loads of snooze material on Gang Starr albums? Where?!? Please point out your specific examples. Also, please compare that snooze material with that of your heroes.

>Guru made mostly good songs with all of Primo's best beats.

More like Guru made beats into mostly Premier's best songs.

Those who think "Transformers" is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved. Film by film, I hope they climb a personal ladder into the realm of better films, until their standards improve." Ebert

>Primo gave Guru a lot of his BEST shit, and all we got is
>a series of solid-very good albums.

no. we got four classic albums buddy

Now Playing:
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De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
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Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

>But didn't Illmatic and Return of the Boom Bap Ready to Die
>come out during that 90-94 period when Gang Starr was at their
>height?

but again, during that period, random cameo verses on other people's albums, esp. across labels was not in vogue. unless you were in good with the artists recording. the logistics of it all was probably cost-prohibitive back then, for one.

>Primo was a busy dude during that time.

he was, but he was mostly doing remixes and things of the sort. Outside of KRS (who was right there in NY for him), he never did mass amounts of album tracks for cats. The whole style of jumping on other people's shit for ALBUM tracks didn't really jump off until after ILLMATIC and READY TO DIE had sunk in and done their numbers. Around 1995 or so.

>Nas sure managed to get a gang of cameos, Busta too during
>that period

Largely because Nas was in good with the artists that called him on (Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep). Nas wasn't doing cameos on say, Dogg Pound's shit, even though he might have liked their music. Today you would find Nas on such a song.

>I kinda agree that Premier was the hot commodity, there was a
>period where EVERYONE seemed to have to have a Primo beat to
>validate being hip-hop

yeah, I think that was mostly around '96-'00. After he had made his rounds in New York (and in some places outside of it)...

>Guru might not have seen himself as a cameo type of dude but
>had he given Nas or Biggie the instrumentals of Hard to Earn
>as their canvas, man PLEASE!!!

Yeah, we know they would have been classic songs, but I don't know if either rapper could have made the songs what they were.

Just as I don't think Guru could have made "Kick In The Door" a classic... that song was tailored for Biggie and sounds more like his kind of beat.

group home and jeru damjia's are considered classics and neither are the same without primo...

you think Guru would have released the same classics if he had to scrounge for beats and didn't have primo sittin right there at the helm..

I'm sayin we can by primo made classics with other people...guru didn't.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

>I'm so glad Guru decided to go out like a bitch, because
>I have newfound respect for the true genius of Gangstarr.

i don't see how Guru went 'out like a bitch.' that's a really dimwitted way of looking at it.
you don't know how he went out. dude was suffering with a terminal illness for
the last year of his life. some of yall Premo/Gang Starr stans are getting so crazy
about this shit. Gang Starr broke up years ago. Thats what groups do. People move on.
That Solar dude is shady as hell, and it's now obvious based on his interview with
Sway that Solar crafted that letter based on what he felt Guru wanted to say,
but Guru ain't never made a concrete statement against DJ Premier. either way
WHO GIVES A FUCK. play your Gang Starr records. listen to the great words dude gave
us, and the great beats Premier made. some of yall so into this like a teeny bopper
magazine, getting all offended and shit. the truth is NONE OF US KNOW SHIT about
their relationship.

The joints Premier did for 'Illmatic' weren't even extraordinary for what he was doing in those days. Same for the joints he did for Jay-Z.

Those were some of my favorite joints of their day, but so were all of the other joints he was producing.

People need to show more respect for artists like Guru and get off of Nas and Jay-Z's dick. Guru's discography is easily better than Nas's; and even without as many mainstream hits as Jay-Z, Gang Starr has something that Jay never will--four consecutive classic albums that you can listen to straight through.

R.I.P. Guru

>The joints Premier did for 'Illmatic' weren't even
>extraordinary for what he was doing in those days. Same for
>the joints he did for Jay-Z.

Except NY State of Mind is one of the top 5 most definitive
NYC songs ever made.

Sorry. Cry, cry baby.

Its true.


And 'Memory Lane' is many people's favorite song on Illmatic


>Those were some of my favorite joints of their day, but so
>were all of the other joints he was producing.


Okay, so basically Primo is just great however you dice it

>People need to show more respect for artists like Guru and get
>off of Nas and Jay-Z's dick. Guru's discography is easily
>better than Nas's;

LOL.

Log off, fam.


Nas' ripped 2 Primo beats harder than Guru could ever
hope to.

Sorry, its true.

And I'm a Guru fan.

Oh, and let's not even speak on 'Nas is Like'


>and even without as many mainstream hits
>as Jay-Z, Gang Starr has something that Jay never will--four
>consecutive classic albums that you can listen to straight
>through.

Just log the fuck off

----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

>Except NY State of Mind is one of the top 5 most definitive
>NYC songs ever made.

OK. Fine.

>And 'Memory Lane' is many people's favorite song on Illmatic

And?

>>Those were some of my favorite joints of their day, but so
>>were all of the other joints he was producing.

>Okay, so basically Primo is just great however you dice it

Pretty much. Primo would probably be the greatest even if the masters of Illmatic were lost in a fire in 1993. And if Reasonable Doubt never came out, either.

>>People need to show more respect for artists like Guru and
>get
>>off of Nas and Jay-Z's dick. Guru's discography is easily
>>better than Nas's;
>
>LOL.
>
>Log off, fam.

You really think Nas's discography is better than that of Gang Starr? GTFOH.

>Nas' ripped 2 Primo beats harder than Guru could ever
>hope to.
>
>Sorry, its true.
>
>And I'm a Guru fan.

*smh* Typical disrespect to Guru. Dude has a grip of classic songs, and somehow it's all gotta go back to how great Illmatic was.

>Oh, and let's not even speak on 'Nas is Like'

Those songs are fucking great. All of the Nas/Premier collabs were great. Was each of them better than any and all Gang Starr songs? You really honestly believe that?

>>and even without as many mainstream hits
>>as Jay-Z, Gang Starr has something that Jay never will--four
>>consecutive classic albums that you can listen to straight
>>through.
>
>Just log the fuck off

How about you get off Jay-Z and Nas's dick for just a second. Thanks.


"Those who think "Transformers" is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved. Film by film, I hope they climb a personal ladder into the realm of better films, until their standards improve." Ebert

2 maybe but no way in hell do they have 4. never heard that til i came to OKP

Now Playing:
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De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

Step in the Arena
Daily Operation
Hard to Earn
Moment of Truth

>never heard that
>til i came to OKP

All of those were out before OKP existed. And the first three were acknowledged classics at that time. Why else do you think the excitement for "Moment of Truth" in 98 was what it was? The standard had already been set.

>Step in the Arena

no way. a good album but not classic. if you look at the other albums that dropped in 91, step in the arena ain't up there

>Daily Operation
>Hard to Earn

now with these two you can debate. some people say daily operation is a classic. others say hard to earn. i'd give it to hard to earn. daily operation is dope as fuck though

>Moment of Truth

this is the only classic gang starr has that can't be debated

>
>>never heard that
>>til i came to OKP
>
>All of those were out before OKP existed. And the first
>three were acknowledged classics at that time. Why else do
>you think the excitement for "Moment of Truth" in 98 was what
>it was? The standard had already been set.

i know these were out before OKP existed. i'm talking about numerous conversations with hip hop fans. most people i came across outside of the northeast region didn't care for gang starr because they didn't like guru that much. premier was bigger for his work outside of gang starr so people always gave him props even if they didn't like his group. only on here is where i seen some people mention guru in a top ten discussion

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

> premier was
>bigger for his work outside of gang starr so people always
>gave him props even if they didn't like his group. only on
>here is where i seen some people mention guru in a top ten
>discussion


"Those who think "Transformers" is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved. Film by film, I hope they climb a personal ladder into the realm of better films, until their standards improve." Ebert

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

The reason I suggested it was because Guru's work with Gang Starr is, in my not-so-humble opinion, superior to Nas's catalog.

That's not even disputable, really.

Next, Gang Starr had FOUR CONSECUTIVE classic albums. Even Jay-Z didn't do that.

Who was rapping on those albums? Guru. They might as well have been solo albums because he was the only one rapping. (With few exceptions--though 'Moment of Truth' had quite a few guest appearances)

Why should it be held against Guru that he wasn't rapping on Swizz Beats and Trackmasters on those albums?

Ultimately, Guru probably wasn't the greatest rapper who ever lived, but his body of work is as good as anyone.

>The reason I suggested it was because Guru's work with Gang
>Starr is, in my not-so-humble opinion, superior to Nas's
>catalog.

i'd take illmatic over any gang starr album.

>
>That's not even disputable, really.
>
>Next, Gang Starr had FOUR CONSECUTIVE classic albums. Even
>Jay-Z didn't do that.

only on OKP does gang starr have four classic albums. they have one undeniable classic. i'll give you cult classic with the rest

>
>Who was rapping on those albums? Guru. They might as
>well have been solo albums because he was the only one
>rapping. (With few exceptions--though 'Moment of Truth' had
>quite a few guest appearances)

true, guru was rapping but he's never mentioned among the greats as an mc and you know it

>
>Why should it be held against Guru that he wasn't rapping on
>Swizz Beats and Trackmasters on those albums?

i think trackmasters are dope so i don't see the problem

>
>Ultimately, Guru probably wasn't the greatest rapper who ever
>lived, but his body of work is as good as anyone.

i won't deny that. he was partnered with arguably the greatest producer in hip hop

Now Playing:
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De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
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Dr. Dre - The Chronic
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It holds no water. Those albums were acknowledged as classics before OKP existed. If you don't know that, you're gonna have to take my word for it.

And LOL at you rebutting my (indisputable) claim that Guru's catalog is superior to that of Nas by saying that you prefer 'Illmatic' over any Gang Starr album. It always comes back to 'Illmatic,' doesn't it?

>It holds no water. Those albums were acknowledged as
>classics before OKP existed. If you don't know that, you're
>gonna have to take my word for it.

it holds plenty water. show me some evidence. who said step in the arena, daily operation and hard to earn were classics? paid in full, illmatic, it takes a nation..., doggystyle, ready to die, etc. are classics. where have those gang starr albums been mentioned among those albums? they're great albums. not classic though. what happened to albums just being good or great? here it's either garbage or classic

>
>And LOL at you rebutting my (indisputable) claim that Guru's
>catalog is superior to that of Nas by saying that you prefer
>'Illmatic' over any Gang Starr album. It always comes back
>to 'Illmatic,' doesn't it?

Gang Starr's catalog is better than Nas. Not Guru's solo shit fam

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
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>i know these were out before OKP existed. i'm talking about
>numerous conversations with hip hop fans. most people i came
>across outside of the northeast region didn't care for gang
>starr because they didn't like guru that much. premier was
>bigger for his work outside of gang starr so people always
>gave him props even if they didn't like his group. only on
>here is where i seen some people mention guru in a top ten
>discussion


jazzmatazz was bigger than anything preem did outside of gangstarr.

i love GURU but come on fam

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

you're comparing few produced tracks to a body of work, how dumb does this sound???

>you're comparing few produced tracks to a body of work, how
>dumb does this sound???

you can throw in the work he did with KRS-One, Rakim, Jeru, Group Home, M.O.P., Fat Joe, Bahamadia, O.C., Lady of Rage, All City, Brand Nubian, Krumb Snatcha, Mos Def, Sauce Money, Afu-Ra, Big L, Capone-N-Noreaga, Common, D.I.T.C. and D'Angelo then. either way you look at it...

Premier's outside production >>> Guru's Jazzmatazz series

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

Maybe if you were into west-coast shit, you didn't feel like that but if you lived for the NY boom-bap (=real Hip-Hop), those four albums were classics pretty much by the time they were re4leased

Ice Cube, Dre, Too Short, DJ Quik, Snoop, CMW, WC, etc. made albums just as good or better than the east coast cats

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

>Ice Cube, Dre, Too Short, DJ Quik, Snoop, CMW, WC, etc. made
>albums just as good or better than the east coast cats

Of course, one could make that argument...

You really want to argue that WC made albums as good as Gang Starr? What did he release... one album? You really think Snoop's 'Doggfather' was on par with Gang Starr's albums? DJ Quik might be an appropriate comparison. Dre dropped two albums over ten years that were nothing alike. Ice Cube was almost universally recognized to have had a dip in quality over time (though certainly a great artist).

Just as an example, how many albums did CMW drop? How many years apart were they? Are those albums still hotly discussed and traded and debated and collected across the globe? They might be--but I guarantee it's not on the level of those of Gang Starr.

Gang Starr set standards with their releases, and they've barely been matched, if ever.

>>Ice Cube, Dre, Too Short, DJ Quik, Snoop, CMW, WC, etc.
>made
>>albums just as good or better than the east coast cats
>
>Of course, one could make that argument...
>
>You really want to argue that WC made albums as good as Gang
>Starr? What did he release... one album? You really think
>Snoop's 'Doggfather' was on par with Gang Starr's albums? DJ
>Quik might be an appropriate comparison. Dre dropped two
>albums over ten years that were nothing alike. Ice Cube was
>almost universally recognized to have had a dip in quality
>over time (though certainly a great artist).

WC and the maad circle have two pretty good albums my friend. and funny you'd choose a snoop album besides doggystyle which is better than any gang starr album. i know Dre isn't liked here but he dropped two classics. not my fault he waits til is albums are damn near perfect before he releases them. mr. jackson released three great albums in a row

>
>Just as an example, how many albums did CMW drop? How many
>years apart were they? Are those albums still hotly
>discussed and traded and debated and collected across the
>globe? They might be--but I guarantee it's not on the level
>of those of Gang Starr.

CMW dropped three albums as a collective and two MC Eiht featuring CMW. all of them good except for death threatz which was hit and miss for the most part. though i like gang starr more i'm almost positive that CMW fanbase is just as large if not larger than gang starr. premier will tell you himself how dope CMW is

>
>Gang Starr set standards with their releases, and they've
>barely been matched, if ever.

gang starr have three great albums and one classic. they're are other artists/groups who have achieved the same feat

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

>>You really want to argue that WC made albums as good as Gang
>>Starr? What did he release... one album? You really
>think
>>Snoop's 'Doggfather' was on par with Gang Starr's albums?
>DJ
>>Quik might be an appropriate comparison. Dre dropped two
>>albums over ten years that were nothing alike. Ice Cube was
>>almost universally recognized to have had a dip in quality
>>over time (though certainly a great artist).
>
>WC and the maad circle have two pretty good albums my friend.

Gang Starr wasn't dropping pretty good albums. That's no disrespect to WC. On second thought, I guess I do remember that he had two albums. "West Up!" was the jam off that second one. Did those really have the weight that Gang Starr albums had, though?

Really. Did they?? Do you really believe that's a good argument?

>and funny you'd choose a snoop album besides doggystyle which
>is better than any gang starr album.

Again. Why cherry pick a single album!? My entire argument is FOUR CONSECUTIVE CLASSIC ALBUMS.

>i know Dre isn't liked
>here but he dropped two classics. not my fault he waits til is
>albums are damn near perfect before he releases them. mr.
>jackson released three great albums in a row

I am not about to debate whether or not Dr. Dre or Ice Cube dropped classic albums.

>>Just as an example, how many albums did CMW drop? How many
>>years apart were they? Are those albums still hotly
>>discussed and traded and debated and collected across the
>>globe? They might be--but I guarantee it's not on the
>level
>>of those of Gang Starr.
>
>CMW dropped three albums as a collective and two MC Eiht
>featuring CMW. all of them good except for death threatz which
>was hit and miss for the most part. though i like gang starr
>more i'm almost positive that CMW fanbase is just as large if
>not larger than gang starr. premier will tell you himself how
>dope CMW is

I liked CMW. They weren't Gang Starr.

"Those who think "Transformers" is a great or even a good film are, may I tactfully suggest, not sufficiently evolved. Film by film, I hope they climb a personal ladder into the realm of better films, until their standards improve." Ebert

>>>You really want to argue that WC made albums as good as
>Gang
>>>Starr? What did he release... one album? You really
>>think
>>>Snoop's 'Doggfather' was on par with Gang Starr's albums?
>>DJ
>>>Quik might be an appropriate comparison. Dre dropped two
>>>albums over ten years that were nothing alike. Ice Cube
>was
>>>almost universally recognized to have had a dip in quality
>>>over time (though certainly a great artist).
>>
>>WC and the maad circle have two pretty good albums my
>friend.
>
>Gang Starr wasn't dropping pretty good albums. That's no
>disrespect to WC. On second thought, I guess I do remember
>that he had two albums. "West Up!" was the jam off that
>second one. Did those really have the weight that Gang Starr
>albums had, though?

you from NYC. i'm from Atlanta so it was different down here. i was part of a select few gang starr fans. only a few NYC cats got love down here. ATCQ, Wu Tang, Nas & BIG for the most part. me personally Gang Starr >>> WC & the Maad Circle. they were dope though

>
>Really. Did they?? Do you really believe that's a good
>argument?
>
>>and funny you'd choose a snoop album besides doggystyle
>which
>>is better than any gang starr album.
>
>Again. Why cherry pick a single album!? My entire
>argument is FOUR CONSECUTIVE CLASSIC ALBUMS.

i see this as a new york thing. personally i don't know anybody who would say gang starr has four classic albums. that's including me and i love gang starr

Now Playing:
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
Ice Cube - Death Certificate
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

Primo talks about visiting Guru after death in the hospital (after spinning "Betrayal")...
http://www.mixcloud.com/WorksOfMart/keith-guru-elam-tribute-mix/

www.facebook.com/DivineExistence1
www.instagram.com/divine_existence
www.youtube.com/@DivineExistence/videos

just rediscovered the group home album, and a lot of the older gangstarr albums that i haven't heard in years.

premo was on fire.

Telling people to "cry" and "be mad" about your HYPOTHETICAL music situations?

LOL

I'm glad that everyone else did the dirty work here, because your corny ass almost ALWAYS deserves to be called out. Great job on sullying what *could* have been a decent discussion. Par for the course, I suppose.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
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----Mixtape Archives-----
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all the while keeping the same blatant and poorly disguised quest for shock value.

He'd says some shit like, "Montell Jordan is a way better rapper than Slick Rick."

Then make a whole post about it.

Corny? Yes

Consistently corny....impressive.

This square's reputation precedes him in music AND sports. God forbid I accidentally click on OkayActivist and see that ol' Orbit_Established has been offering up his "opinions" on politics. Isn't it possible for a human to die from laughter?

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

>This square's reputation precedes him in music AND sports.
>God forbid I accidentally click on OkayActivist and see that
>ol' Orbit_Established has been offering up his "opinions" on
>politics. Isn't it possible for a human to die from laughter?

what's weird is that i'm 99% sure i went to undergrad w/this cat & have had convos w/him...i had no idea he was such a douche. maybe it's only online.

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

>what's weird is that i'm 99% sure i went to undergrad w/this
>cat & have had convos w/him...i had no idea he was such a
>douche. maybe it's only online.

No, you didn't.

And even if you did, who fucking cares.


This is what I mean about y'all being sensitive and bitch-like.


I mean, I got y'all playing ping pong about my opinions.

Two are Kentucky basketball fans who don't like me
because of something I said about their team.

One is a dumb nigga stuck in the boom bap era

I mean....LOL

Meanwhile, ain't nobody touched my actual point
with a 32 inch pole....Primo is the greatest, and
Guru's death further reinforced that FACT.

CRY



----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

SHOCK, SHOCk, SHOCK!!!!!

Avatar?
E-Boogs and Nayi

MANHOODLUM
Most sig'd okp.
No Aliases.

MANHOODLUM via Twitter
MANHOODLUM@live.com
MANHOODLUM@yahoo.com
Tommy Moran @ Facebook
MANHOODLUM@tmo.blackberry.net

Oh, okay.

Just checking.


































































































































































No reason to be mad about it.

----------------------------


O_E: "Acts an like asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

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played out









































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.

and gay

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
https://twitch.tv/djchiefone

----Mixtape Archives-----
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@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

nm

Just sayin

--------------------

blah blah blah

you sound like a fucking sauteed bitch to me
get th' fuck outta my thread before I do your woopa yop some necessary justice

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this