I was perusing through some posts round here....and someone was commenting on a video of MJ recording his parts on We Are The World, and someone asked "is that what they call 'stacking'?..."

some folks answered yes but then went on to give incorrect descriptions...I think someone said "its when you record vocals from different distances...", which was incorrect...

and the continuous mis-definitions of "melody" and "harmony" on these boards still tugs at me soul...

so shoot...ask me what a musical term is and hopefully I can answer...

my other musical brethren PLEASE feel free to pitch in your .02...I dont claim to have all the answers and you never stop learning...I JUST learned the term "stems" earlier this year myself...

note: Im going to give you the definiton as used by music professionals...Im not going to go into semantics and esoterics...

This post was really for Monday morning, but Ima be busy so Im putting up now....

roll that shit light that shit smoke em if you got em...


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i know it has something to do with rhythm and how notes are played. can you provide popular song references along with a written explanation?

____________________________________________________________________

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Staccato means that the note, tones, or sound is kept short and does not ring out.

An example is the way the piano is played on The Beatles song Eleanor Rigby....the piano chords are played staccato...

Side note: I'm goin from the dome..so these answers are given in layman's terms
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he has said that he specifically tried to write shorter notes cause he loved the way Mike sang staccato,
which seems to have had a huge effect on the rest of Mike's vocal career.

<----

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and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
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he said that he wrote that way because Mike is a very rhythmic singer...so he wrote melodies with staccato notes so MJ would feel comfortable...

so he didnt change or alter Mike's singing style, he wrote songs to suit him as a vocalist, which is what a good songwriter should do when writing for others specifically...

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How do you know when it's something else (other than it feels different)? And on top of that, I've noticed a lot of times someone will say it's one thing (7/8) and then someone will go "naw, it's a 4/4 and then a 3/4 back to back" (or something like that)?

AND, how do you even play something that's not 4/4 lol? It's hard for me to do (if I was banging on my desk right now)...I naturally want to slide into 4/4 and anything besides that feels off.
__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

I think I know when something isn't 4/4, but I don't know how to differentiate one from another.

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

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they mix time signatures fluidly and often.

<----

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and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

Someone in The Lesson told me that it's in 6/4. I couldn't tell you for sure, but it is definitely not 4/4.

"Madrugada" by Jazztronik ( not the whole song, but the bridge)
"Fell on Black Days" by Soundgarden ( again, not the whole song but some parts)

and I think Nic could give some insight on this but "House of Cards" by Foreign Exchange...

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.

www.theforeignexchangemusic.com

.

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Let's start with 4/4
The top number represents the amount of notes in a measure
The bottom being the length of said note.
In the above case, a measure consists of 4 quarter notes.
Think of the count as 1and2and3and4and
In 3/4
a measure will be counted in quarter notes, but will only last for 3 instead of 4.
1and2and3and
8/8, however, will not be measured in quarter notes, but instead eighth notes.
Because these notes are half as long as quarter notes,
4/4 and 8/8 will account for the same amount of time,
but 8/8 will seem faster.
Instead of 1and2and3and4and
it will pass by 12345678.
Similarly,
7/8 is made up of 7 eighth notes in succession,
1234567
1234567.
This is where the difference between 7/8 and 4/4-3/4 comes in.
If things are being measured out in eighth notes it would be 7/8
1234567
but if the time uses quarter notes it will be
1and2and3and4and1and2and3and.

Things get really crazy when you get to different note lengths,
but know that waltzes are typically in 3/3.

EDIT:
a good example of 7/8 is Pink Floyd's "Money,"
which is in 7/8 for the verses,
but goes to 4/4 for the instrumental bridge because it was easier for David Gilmour to solo in 4/4 than 7/8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXQg7Oir1Bg

<----

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

everything I write is in 4/4...I recognized when somn is NOT in 4/4, but I'll be damned if I could tell you...

Duval's answer is pretty good...


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>Let's start with 4/4
>The top number represents the amount of notes in a measure
>The bottom being the length of said note.
>In the above case, a measure consists of 4 quarter notes.
>Think of the count as 1and2and3and4and
>In 3/4
>a measure will be counted in quarter notes, but will only last
>for 3 instead of 4.
>1and2and3and
>8/8, however, will not be measured in quarter notes, but
>instead eighth notes.
>Because these notes are half as long as quarter notes,
>4/4 and 8/8 will account for the same amount of time,
>but 8/8 will seem faster.
>Instead of 1and2and3and4and
>it will pass by 12345678.
>Similarly,
>7/8 is made up of 7 eighth notes in succession,
>1234567
>1234567.
>This is where the difference between 7/8 and 4/4-3/4 comes
>in.
>If things are being measured out in eighth notes it would be
>7/8
>1234567
>but if the time uses quarter notes it will be
>1and2and3and4and1and2and3and.
>
>Things get really crazy when you get to different note
>lengths,
>but know that waltzes are typically in 3/3.
>
>EDIT:
>a good example of 7/8 is Pink Floyd's "Money,"
>which is in 7/8 for the verses,
>but goes to 4/4 for the instrumental bridge because it was
>easier for David Gilmour to solo in 4/4 than 7/8.
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXQg7Oir1Bg

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

for some reason I always thought it was 5/4, but this came down to what I was told rather than figuring it for myself

-------

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Games without front ears / born without ears

So "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" by the Police is a good example of the beginning being in 4/4 and then end is 8/8?

I've seen a lot of people mistakenly describing Broken Beat songs as not being 4/4 time.


That's not true. The drums do fall all over the place ( hence the name Broken Beat), but it's still in 4/4 time.

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>I've seen a lot of people mistakenly describing Broken Beat
>songs as not being 4/4 time.
>
>
>That's not true. The drums do fall all over the place ( hence
>the name Broken Beat), but it's still in 4/4 time.

I believe in most cases, no matter how off-beat, Dilla-fied, wonky a beat is, it's STILL 4/4 lol. Doesn't matter how crazy the programming is......it's still plain ol' 4/4.


__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

The two regular are two's and threes.

4/4 is a variation of two. So is 2/4. You either count 1|2 or 1|2 3|4. The rhythm of them being primarily the same, use differences in how you emphasize.

3/4 and 6/8 are the variations of threes. You either count 1|2|3 or 1|2|3 4|5|6.

The greater percentage of all music falls into these categories.

Most of the irregular counts were originally used as transitions between the two. How do you go from 4/4 to 3/4 throw a bar of 5/4 in the middle and KIM.

Then you start getting high-falutin artiste's that want to make whole songs in irregular signatures. The possibilities with irregular signatures obviously being kind of infinite.
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As far as 3/4 pieces go, anything that's a waltz is 3/4, and geerally speaking counting 1 - 2 - 3 as the piece plays is pretty easy.

For funkier stuff, Bulgarian music is frequently in odd (to us) time signatures... kopanitsas are in 11/8, for example - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO9niMLf6iw. Listening to that kind of stuff it's amazing to Western Euros and Americans that it's actually dance music. I saw Yuri Yunakov about ten years ago, and man, the Bulgarians in the audience were getting down in these big circles the rest of us coldn't begin to figure out.

The Wiki on Bulgarian folk dance is fascinating if you're interested in odd time signatures and how to go about counting them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_dances

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

a majority of the songs on that album are in different time signatures...

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Hank Williams chorus on Honkey Tonkin' is in 5/4. Nice gait there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh_CQnhZ8cY

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=920BnH5bRJk&feature=fvw
enjoy!

Sting uses alot of odd time signatures the BASSDRUM lands on and starts of the 1! to count from where the kick begins!

People:
"Prolific" denotes neither the quality of the work nor its profundity.

Prolific simply means the abundance of your output.

Prince and Frank Zappa, for example, are prolific artists because of the amount of albums they have put out.

The Magnetic Fields' album "69 Love Songs" represents a prolific amount of work on one album.

Despite how great Bizarre Ride.. and Labcabin both are,
neither make the Pharcyde a prolific group.

Thank you,
that is all.

<----

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and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

all prolific means is that you crank out alot of material...


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Because its roots are in the Latin word for "offspring" -- generally looked at as a good thing. So when the word came into the English language, it was applied to families with many kids, trees with a lot of fruit, etc. Hence, to this day, while the functional meaning has modified (flattened out), it still usually takes on the implication of "producing things that people do (or should) value."

So while it is true that good material is more likely to be labeled as evidence of an artist's proclivity than poor material,
the first standard that must be met is amount.

If artist A makes 5 not-so-good albums every 3 years
and artist B makes 5 phenomenal albums in 30 years,
artist A would still be considered more prolific than artist B.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

Just noting that there's a historical reason why the word carries that connotation of value, and that it's possible to this day for folks to hear the word generally applied to good things outside of popular music (touchdowns, 3-pointers, operas, symphonies), or only ironically to bad or suspect things (fumbles, pick-up lines). So they carry that implicit understanding into these discussions.

One of the most misused terms ever applied to music.

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

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is about as unprolific as a group can be.

Tanya Morgan - "Brooklynati" The Album
In Stores Now

Are you referring to group channels as stems here? In Post sound production we use 'stem' as a way of differentiating between the 'music stem', the 'fx stem', the 'dialogue stem' etc. Or is there another use for 'stem' that I don't know about?

And ya...I've found that you have to overlook the misuse of the terms harmony and melody alot.

we did a vocal session with a female vocalist...

she recorded numerous tracks of vocals and I needed the engineer to send me each vocal track as a .wav file

he was like "oh, you need the stems..."

and since then I've heard others use the term in the same way...

"I'll send you the stems..."



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if you think of mixing as post production and not arranging, you've got your song set just the way you want. you group instrument parts together for the final mixing. By example you could have 10 different guitar parts combined into one guitars stem. alternately you have a rhythm stem. A lot of times in the past stems are what went to the mastering facility in simple groups, rhythm, lead, vocals or something like that. The mastering engineer then had a little bit more to work with to get the perfect balance. Again it's not mixing, but making sure everything has its proper place in the song. Over the years its been used a lot more liberally, to refer to almost any grouping of tracks.
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"we've reached a point where buyers are a niche market" �dalecooper

an album is a recording, usually of several works ( songs ) by an artist. This self contained unit of music is an ALBUM.

CD is the format. MP3 is the format.


So when somebody says, "Beyonce has a new CD out" they SHOULD be saying "Beyonce has a new ALBUM out". Because technically speaking, when she releases a new album she's putting hundreds of thousands of new CD's out.

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A CD is a piece of plastic. An album is a work of music. Get it right.

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I always thought LP's and EP's denoted album lengths (i.e. LP being a full album and EP being a short album) no matter the format.

Avy: Tyrion disrespects King Joffrey yet again

"If your life consists of NO drankin, NO drugs, NO loose booty, NO fatty foods, NO additives, NO preservatives, AND no waings.......then what the fuck you wanna live so long for, boring ass n****?" - Tay

back when singles were the dominant format, and people started releasing full-length albums , LP ( Long Play) was the new way people put out rleases, and at the time Vinyl was the only format. So it kind of became the default name for albums. and I think EP ( Extended Play ) came around later. But I don't really recall seeing many EP's until the late 80's early 90's, and that was in Cassette format ( which eventually trickled over to CD's). Some vinyl releases are/were EP's but I don't think Dance music did it first...

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An extension on this is "Album" and "Record."

Traditionally in the industry

Record - one song
Album - collection of records

This doesn't take the destination format into account, and can get confusing when talking about vinyl. But major labels still say things like "there are going to be 12 records on this album."

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I've heard people say "Record" when referring to an album. It's probably based on the notion that record is just short for "Recording". Which in this case is the complete album.


I do it too.



(I've never heard anybody call an album "Records". I've never heard record used plurally when talking about one album.)

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Oh, I go back and forth too, and wind up confusing myself. I'll generally stick to songs and albums and save everyone the trouble

It's definitely rare today, but some label people, specifically older ones will still use the term, like "So and so just recorded a hot record today" meaning one song

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stacking is a term for recording harmony vocals...that means that the same passage is sung in a different pitch by each singer(ex: 3 part harmony)

with multi-tracking/overdubbing, it is possible for one singer to sing all the parts of harmony vocals...

sometimes a lead vocal is doubled or tripled for the sake of fullness and texture...in that case, the lead vocal may be sung in the same pitch...

examples: D'Angelo, Marvin Gaye, Prince

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not harmonies. same pitch same timbre = stacked. georgia ann muldrow suffers IMHO from overstacking and too few harmonies.
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you don't think of that as stacked vocals unless you're doubling up some of the voices. that's just harmonizing no?
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"we've reached a point where buyers are a niche market" �dalecooper

but I guess mostly when it's the same person doing the different parts. The term, I think would apply though for any layering of parts.


http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

like if i'm stackin a minor 3rd with my voice i be stackin the 3rd st. Killa Clique with my hands
major (aka perfect) 5ths I be stackin 55th st. GD folks

*bumps some old school Bone while i c-walk out this post*

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agree with the direction your going. Stacking is a same person, same performance, multi-tracking technique. Like recording three vocal tracks all sung the same way and panning them right, left and center.

a section of a standard musical composition used to transition the song from the verse to the chorus...some people also call this a "B section"

Example:
the section of the song Off The Wall with the lyrics "so tonight/gotta leave that 9 to 5/up on the shelf..." is the bridge and leads into the chorus

the section of the song that follows a 2nd or 3rd chorus and is usually in a different key is also known as a bridge...

Example:
the section of the song Off The Wall with the lyrics "do/what yo want to do/there aint no rules..."


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Usher. . . You don't have to call

Pharell. . . Frontin'

Michael Jackson. . . off the wall

Justin Timberlake. . . like i love u

Anita Baker. . . Mystery




add on

"Sex Machine" - JB
"We Are Lonely" - Studio Apartment
"How Deep is Your Love" - BLAZE
"Come Fly With Me"- Glenn Underground

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<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

not so sure about your MJ example.

"so tonight...gotta leave that 9 to 5' is the chorus.

The bridge would be where he says "Do-oh-oh...what you want to do"

Life aint so bad at all
Live life off the wall
Live your life off the wall
Live it off the wall


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we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. The way I see it...'Life ain't so bad at all, Live it off the wall' is the last line of the chorus. Then the original riff starts again and he vamps for a while before starting the second verse.

Here's a link to a lyrics page...not that it makes me right but Id agree with how they organized the song.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/michael+jackson/off+the+wall_20092778.html

Speaking of MJ...I was wondering if Temperton wrote lyrics, music or both while they worked together.

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Here is the chorus:

Tonight
Gotta leave that 9-5 up on the shelf
And just enjoy yourself
Groove
Let the magic in the music get to you
Life ain't so bad at all
if you're living off the wall

Notice the entire melody repeats itself after "and just enjoy yourself"

The resolution line of the chorus is "if you're living off the wall"

The other vocals you mentioned are bg's/ad-libs leading up to the next verse.


http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

>a section of a standard musical composition used to
>transition the song from the verse to the chorus...some people
>also call this a "B section"
>
>Example:
>the section of the song Off The Wall with the lyrics "so
>tonight/gotta leave that 9 to 5/up on the shelf..." is the
>bridge and leads into the chorus

That's actually the chorus.


>the section of the song that follows a 2nd or 3rd chorus and
>is usually in a different key is also known as a bridge...
>
>Example:
>the section of the song Off The Wall with the lyrics "do/what
>yo want to do/there aint no rules..."

THIS is the bridge.




http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

Diminished chords?

has a flatted third and flatted fifth...

A major chord is made up of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of a scale...1,3,5 is also called a major triad...

The scale of C:
C D E F G A B

A minor triad is made by lowering the 3rd by one note(which is called "flatting")thus a minor chord/triad has a "flatted third"...

as mentioned before, in a diminished chord, both the 3rd and 5th notes in the triad are lowered by one note...

technically a diminished chord is made up of the root, a flatted 3rd, and a "diminished" 5th, thus the name of the chord...but the diminished 5th is just a flatted 5th....

example:
C Major = C E G
C Minor = C Eb G
C dim = C Eb Gb

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so by definition...a diminished chord has to be a minor chord?

a minor chord has a flat third and a perfect fifth...

a diminished chord has a flat third and flat fifth....

those small differences make them different type of chords...




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okay...I thought a diminished chord was a variation of a minor chord (like a sub-genre of a genre type thing) Thanks....I get it now.

So, the root, the minor third, and a flattened 5th (the minor triad has a perfect 5th). In the key of C, this is the C, Eb, and Gb.

The flattened 5th has always been considered a dissonant tone, so most of the time it's mostly used as a passing tone, or if a phrase ends on it, it gives sort of an "evil" tone (think the riff to Black Sabbath's "Black Sabbath"). So diminished chords are mostly used as passing chords in a progression or to give some sort of tension.

every song you know and love in western music is based
on the notes you find in the pattern you heard in that
song from the sound of music. . .

do
re
me
fa
sol
la
ti
do.

Are thes the only those 8 notes used in western music?

No.


in between these "regular" notes
There are also "in-between" notes.

in between the note "do" and the note "re"
there is another note. . . that is slightly higher than "do"
and slightly lower than "re"

there is one of these "in-between" notes each of the "regular"
notes in the do, re, me, fa, sol, la, ti, do pattern.

if you add up all the "regular notes"
and all the "in-between" notes,
you get 12 notes total.

believe it or not, that's all the songs you
know and love are built on.
12 notes.


CHORDS:


Now. . . a chord is when you play 3 or more of those
12 notes together. . . at the same time.
for the sake of simplicity and communcation. . .
names have been assigned to pratcially every combination
of notes you can play.

For example. . . if you are going through the
do re me fa sol la ti do pattern,

and you play the 1st note, the 3rd note, and the 5th note
(do, me, sol) together at the same time. . .
we call that a MAJOR TRIAD.


as you can imagine. . .there are many combinations
of notes in the pattern you can play together.
and each of these combinations has different name.




SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION:

what is a diminsed chord?


if you take the pattern
do re mi fa sol la ti do. . .

a dimished chord would be if you play
the FIRST note in that pattern (do)

allong with the "in-between" note that is between
"re" and "mi"

along with the "in-between" note that is between
"sol" and "la"



a reference of all the chords you will probably
hear in western music can be found HERE:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Music_Theory/Complete_List_of_Chord_Patterns


the roman numeral I is for do
the roman numeral II is for re
the roman numeral III is for mi
ect.
ect.
ect.


go nuts.

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and it's a shame because it scares a lot of
people off from music theory.

i am glad i could help.

I *think* I know what it means... but it would be nice to get a breakdown from somebody that really knows the deal

technically it means "to accent a weak beat" or "to omit a part or shorten"

but pretty much its a catch all phrase to describe the rhythmic complexity of soul and funk music...

soul and funk musicians tend to play between beats and sometimes skip beats to create a rhythmic tension...

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But I guess I'll try to explain it.

There's several ways to syncopate things. In most music written in 4/4, the strong accents generally fall on the 1st and 3rd beats of a measure. So if you're playing something that falls on the 2nd or 4th beats of a measure, that's even note syncopation. But like scorp said, you can also create syncopation by skipping a beat where one is expected. That's missed beat syncopation. Then you have off beat syncopation, where a phrase is shifted a bit off the beat, along with several other kids.

I guess the best way to really generalize it is when notes are added, taken away, or shifted so that the pulse of it lands where it is generally unexpected. And yea, it's usually pretty funky.

>But I guess I'll try to explain it.
>
>There's several ways to syncopate things. In most music
>written in 4/4, the strong accents generally fall on the 1st
>and 3rd beats of a measure. So if you're playing something
>that falls on the 2nd or 4th beats of a measure, that's even
>note syncopation. But like scorp said, you can also create
>syncopation by skipping a beat where one is expected. That's
>missed beat syncopation. Then you have off beat syncopation,
>where a phrase is shifted a bit off the beat, along with
>several other kids.
>
>I guess the best way to really generalize it is when notes are
>added, taken away, or shifted so that the pulse of it lands
>where it is generally unexpected. And yea, it's usually
>pretty funky.



thx for distinguishing between off- beat and even note syncopation, that was where I was having my most difficulty understanding

You may have a hard count on the down beat and then a subtle double time fill in between on the up beat. It sort of leads you into the rhythm.

*edit* the above descriptions are correct in that it is about shifting the emphasis, but I've always associated that also with the fills to push that emphasis.
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