>*shakes head*



>No, you didn't get it.
>Maybe I was being glib.
>abstract
>vague

Mh, i didn't understand you, i should have read it more than 4 times (i thought after 4 times i must have got it). Sorry i misunderstood you

>Fred, if I may call you
>that,

Sure thing, Q

>my Ancestors have always known
>difference and accepted it readily.
>As so many white people
>like to say, Africa is
>a vast continent. Yeah, it
>is. And the people there
>didn't all look alike either.

Yes. if you've read posts ive made you should know that i know that, it's a ting i've thought about much these last months

>but we have
>never feared difference nor being
>"watered down," so your analysis
>was... just not _there_.

Sorry, i was using what i have been taught. Remember, i come from an european family. Not American, but still european. I'm taking one loong step back away from the american culture and the worst of the european culture, but i'm not old enough and havent had enough time to take a good step away from what i've been taught and is still being taught by my parents

But i like what you wrote, it is very true from what i know (but dont practise)

>Individuals. Is. A. Creepy. Word. And.
>An. Even. Creepier. Concept.
>
>Is that clear. As long as
>people are "coming together" under
>the guise of being "individuals"
>as far as the so-called
>harmony of hip-hop, what is
>being experienced is just your
>(read: white/European/Euro-American) culture.

Not euro-american

I replied to this (in the first post):

>It seems, to me, that things
>continue in the wake of
>one cultural expression -- and
>it isn't african. The idea
>of individuals coming together.
>
>That was disturbing."

I didn't understand the first part, so what i read was "The idea of individuals coming together. That was disturbing". I didn't put much thought to individuals, i just thought a group of people, of different backgrounds, coming together. I thought you said it was disturbing that people (not individuals) of different backgrounds come together to enjoy hiphop.

I didn't say individuals because i thought that was a damn good word to use . But true, i also didn't read it and think "it is a word that gots to do with much of the negative sides of western thought, i mustn't use it.". I even haven't heard the things you are saying before, not that clearly. It was good to read, it makes much sense from what i see in european culture. I see at least some of what you mean (thinking individually compared to in a unity). It's got lots to do with the general african thinking vs. the general western thinking

Like this:
>Cultures of
>African descent are relational, community-oriented,
>not goal-oriented.

Yes. i don't see much of the african culture, but i see and have seen very much of the goal-oriented individual-based culture. Heck, i grew up in it and was brought up on it. Even my parents who are very different from it, they are "alternative", they have much of it.. I realize that when i am on these boards

>When you go to a
>hip-hop show, despite who the
>audience is made of, if
>the artist is Black, she
>or he is going to
>bring their flava to the
>performance and that flava is
>going to be the gem
>of her or his culture
>-- which is not going
>to be about individuals coming
>together, but about building community
>amongst the audience/fans. However, if
>you white people look at
>it as being "not white
>or Black" about "individuals coming
>together" you are going to
>miss it because you are
>too busy indulging and enjoying
>your own culture so much
>that you will miss out
>on what you are experiencing
>-- or should be experiencing....
>connection... and a flow of
>energy, an exchange with the
>universe. Black culture at its
>fullest and finest.

That is very true
Not that i miss that connection and energy, but that "the artist is building a community with the audience/fans"

I've been to one show with a black artist like the one your talked about - Common.. (and loved it!). It was his culture at its fullest and finest, and i was a part of that energy. It was my first show, it was strange and i didnt buck wild(?), but i enjoyed it all the way. During that show i realized that it was a smart move to not go all wild like some others in front of the stage did. I am very sure that i was very aware about that energy, but i also liked seeing fans from different cultures in the crowds (i dont see it very often in the part of norway i live in). Heck, it was in my head throughout the show, that what i experienced was all new.. i thought "this isn't hip hop, this is something different!". Common was very different from what i even thought he would be, much warmer, much more himself. He gave all of himself, his culture.. he flooded us with himself!

>Instead, you are corrupting your experience
>of it by viewing it
>through your cultural hegemony.

I tried not to do that, at least subcounciously(sp!)

I think i am doing what you said i should do:

>chanllenge yourself to learn
>about what it is you
>are receiving, realizing that it
>isn't something you are familiar
>with, realizing that the reason
>you like it so much
>is because it isn't empty,
>like your culture...

right on point

>which forces
>the question, why do you
>only choose to look at
>it through your culture when
>it obviously has nothing to
>do with it... in the
>best and worst of times?

Because i was brought up in it, still being fed it. I am constantly trying to go away from it.. ive never been so critical to what i hear, even from my parents, like i am now

I see the things you talk about all teh time, from narrowminded journalists in my family to the politicians of Norway

>*shrugs*
>
>Is that clear enough?

Very clear, and i enjoyed it all the way
Thank you, this was more than i expected

>
>Peace,
>
>Q

peace

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"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan