DO BETTER!

(If this becomes a 200+ post white people really do suck!)

Yimhotep
what amazes me is that i didn't say anyone was inferior (and the argument has been made), i didn't call anybody Satan, i don't remember calling anyone names, i just said "you're fearful."
on a lighter note (yeah right)...
how's grad school?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Akwaaba


3 hour long exams
30 page papers
and
rushed thesis proposals

All in All, I'd say its GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PEace
solarICE

DAMN DEBILS!!!


SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

>Akwaaba
>
>
>3 hour long exams

done those, 5p.m. to 8:00!!! and we _still_ weren't finished! i was like forget it, i'm not about to spend all night up in here, i handed the unfinished exam, actually it wasn't unfinished but it was 'cause i knew one of the answers was wrong but was too tired to fix it.

>30 page papers

yep, know bout summa those 2. this thesis is about to be weighable tho'

>and
>rushed thesis proposals

did that 2 weeks ago!

>All in All, I'd say its
>GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:) i feel your pain.

>PEace
>solarICE


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>DO BETTER!
>
>(If this becomes a 200+ post
>white people really do suck!)
>

How does this equate to white guilt?

I one point I thought you were very intelligent but the more I read...............*sigh*

GOD help us all. We need more love.



________________________________________
* FUNNY ISH * by the Gods and Earths on GeneralD

ey yo. i dont want no one posting like me...on NO message board. i dont even know what in their own mind made em think they could fuck with us dun. posts...threads...we run all this shit. i told shorty. you aint even got to go to school this semester. just read a scifi/koku/sheba post, and that'll be all the education you need this year. word up. yo, we aint even gon' come back with another joint til the year 2000. gonna come with the comet. wax mofuckas ass for fee or free. most of yall cats tryin to turn this posting shit into R&B, rap and bullshit. fuck that. quit runnin up on cats with that wack shit. talkin bout you an okayplayer. you better snap out that fuckin dream. it takes years for this! word the fuck up son. fuckin dr.suess, cat in the hat ass posters! we told yall on the only made for GeneralD.links post...cats still keep takin our shit (c)Science Fiction

i breeze to breath heavily
wisdom reach earth you'll never be
the cypher keep gods from bein' beasts
fuck it lucy cracked the peas to face east
new laced sneaks fresh stomp the 'crete
word sheba hawk reppin' crazy
the arm leg leg arm head by me daily
you can't phase me
can't fuck w/the gods
Stacey was the birth name they gave me
Divine chosin' one
ordained simple and plain to hold the Sun
360 scold your dunns
i'm the earth muhfuckas can't hold me
none

what yall know about it, god? (c) Divine Sheba

Koku principles spoken from
nature's chosen elements.
Speaking to the Gods I am
the Earth on 7 settlements.
Tattooed upon my arm is a
yakub burning in hell.
Cause Me, Sci, and Sheba rock
the Godz jheri curls.
Word up son! Word up! Banging
yakub's disciples in the ears
with speeches from beyond!
Light to dark, dark to light.
Heavy like granite boulders,
yahmean? (c)Koku


the good power u!
that's what holds us gods down like gravity nahymean? always brings me back to the old earth, while holdin up the suns and stars. yakub's daughters(dorothy and shit) aint ever gon' fuck with the wiz. word to the third. protons electrons always cause explosions(p.e.a.c.e). (c) Science Fiction

******* A funny convo between the God K.O.M & the earth Koku*******

K.O.M.
Wassup to all the real Gods and Earths, not the wannabes. I'm rising like Sol yo, on some straight up ante meridian shit, that's my word. Yall fools don't know nothing about the crusty third eyes in the misty morning, for real. God Cipher Divine, YO! Fools talking about spoken jelly, when it's all about the liguistic jam, ya know? Spread on the wheat bread that represents the pantheon of the true Godbody, ha heard me?


Koku:
God Cipher has arisen. What's the science
on this day?

K.O.M.:
Full rotation son, on the axis. Word is bond. Light and dark, birds and bees, peanut butter and jelly, Abbot and Costello.
Koku:
Today is lovely. Kix are still for kids,
yahmean?

K.O.M.:
Word. We gotta keep building these temples yo to absorb the light of the sun as they shine on peak of the cosmic Coco puffs soaking in the nonfat soy milk of magnesia, that's my word.

Koku:
How they gone shine when they're lactose
intolerant? How can we overstand without
the supreme dairy products?

Akwaaba

Now you're questioning my IQ????!!!

Why don't you just call me a monkey??!!

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

you pretentious, 5%-er monkey.
There is that better, do we feel like a victim now?
By the way, this sarcasm.

Yimhotep
LOL
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

You're stupid dude

~the anti-sig~

yltfoS sa fi I deyalp onaip ni eht krad
dnuoF a yaw ot lennahc ym regna ton ot
krabme
ehT s'dlrow a egats dna s'ydobyreve tog
ot yalp rieht trap
doG skrow ni suoiretsym syaw os nehw eh
strats eht boj fo nikaeps hguorht su ew eb os erecnis htiw siht ereh
oN sgurd ro lohocla os I nac teg eht langis realc sa yad
tuP ym kcolg yawa I tog a regnorts
nopaew taht reven snur tuo fo noitinumma os m'I ydaer rof raw yako
0003erdna-




~the anti-sig~

I replied to Solarus, not you

only kidding.
No I wasn't questioning your intelligence. I'm sometimes disappointed by some of the things that are said by you and the others on this board. some you are so intelligent but then you seemed closed minded by some of your views.
So please answer the question that I asked in my first post and try not to read to far into what I stated. Its a simple question.



Universal love is the answer not ignorant rhetoric.
One Race(HUMAN) One GOD One LOVE

________________________________________
* FUNNY ISH * by the Gods and Earths on GeneralD

ey yo. i dont want no one posting like me...on NO message board. i dont even know what in their own mind made em think they could fuck with us dun. posts...threads...we run all this shit. i told shorty. you aint even got to go to school this semester. just read a scifi/koku/sheba post, and that'll be all the education you need this year. word up. yo, we aint even gon' come back with another joint til the year 2000. gonna come with the comet. wax mofuckas ass for fee or free. most of yall cats tryin to turn this posting shit into R&B, rap and bullshit. fuck that. quit runnin up on cats with that wack shit. talkin bout you an okayplayer. you better snap out that fuckin dream. it takes years for this! word the fuck up son. fuckin dr.suess, cat in the hat ass posters! we told yall on the only made for GeneralD.links post...cats still keep takin our shit (c)Science Fiction

i breeze to breath heavily
wisdom reach earth you'll never be
the cypher keep gods from bein' beasts
fuck it lucy cracked the peas to face east
new laced sneaks fresh stomp the 'crete
word sheba hawk reppin' crazy
the arm leg leg arm head by me daily
you can't phase me
can't fuck w/the gods
Stacey was the birth name they gave me
Divine chosin' one
ordained simple and plain to hold the Sun
360 scold your dunns
i'm the earth muhfuckas can't hold me
none

what yall know about it, god? (c) Divine Sheba

Koku principles spoken from
nature's chosen elements.
Speaking to the Gods I am
the Earth on 7 settlements.
Tattooed upon my arm is a
yakub burning in hell.
Cause Me, Sci, and Sheba rock
the Godz jheri curls.
Word up son! Word up! Banging
yakub's disciples in the ears
with speeches from beyond!
Light to dark, dark to light.
Heavy like granite boulders,
yahmean? (c)Koku


the good power u!
that's what holds us gods down like gravity nahymean? always brings me back to the old earth, while holdin up the suns and stars. yakub's daughters(dorothy and shit) aint ever gon' fuck with the wiz. word to the third. protons electrons always cause explosions(p.e.a.c.e). (c) Science Fiction

******* A funny convo between the God K.O.M & the earth Koku*******

K.O.M.
Wassup to all the real Gods and Earths, not the wannabes. I'm rising like Sol yo, on some straight up ante meridian shit, that's my word. Yall fools don't know nothing about the crusty third eyes in the misty morning, for real. God Cipher Divine, YO! Fools talking about spoken jelly, when it's all about the liguistic jam, ya know? Spread on the wheat bread that represents the pantheon of the true Godbody, ha heard me?


Koku:
God Cipher has arisen. What's the science
on this day?

K.O.M.:
Full rotation son, on the axis. Word is bond. Light and dark, birds and bees, peanut butter and jelly, Abbot and Costello.
Koku:
Today is lovely. Kix are still for kids,
yahmean?

K.O.M.:
Word. We gotta keep building these temples yo to absorb the light of the sun as they shine on peak of the cosmic Coco puffs soaking in the nonfat soy milk of magnesia, that's my word.

Koku:
How they gone shine when they're lactose
intolerant? How can we overstand without
the supreme dairy products?

Yimhotep
>I'm sometimes disappointed by some
>of the things that are
>said by you and the
>others on this board. some
>you are so intelligent but
>then you seemed closed minded
>by some of your views.

poor baby, we hate to disappoint you, and it's so good to know that everyone can track their intelligence w/ the Qoolskip factor.
"Utamaroho i thought u were so sharp"
"Solarus, i thought u were intelligent"
well Qoolskip y don't u share some of your intelligence w/ us, instead of constantly telling ppl how intelligent u "thought" they were. y not have a discussion instead of running out with your hands over your ears, screaming "RACIST!"
i mean really, which is more intelligent?
who has the closed mind?
the one who tries to understand what is being said a la Sunday or the one flying away like the little bee he purports himself to be?


>So please answer the question that
>I asked in my first
>post and try not to
>read to far into what
>I stated. Its a simple
>question.
>

and answer my question: what did i say thst was racist? (assuming for un momentito that i can be racist)

>
>Universal love is the answer not
>ignorant rhetoric.

what is the rhetoric "ignorant" of?


and i ask these only b/c i care, really i do.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>well Qoolskip y don't u share
>some of your intelligence w/
>us, instead of constantly telling
>ppl how intelligent u "thought"
>they were. y not have
>a discussion instead of running
>out with your hands over
>your ears, screaming "RACIST!"
>i mean really, which is more
>intelligent?
>who has the closed mind?
>the one who tries to understand
>what is being said a
>la Sunday or the one
>flying away like the little
>bee he purports himself to
>be?
>

"flying away like a little bee"????? i no understand

>and answer my question: what did
>i say thst was racist?
>(assuming for un momentito that
>i can be racist)
>

racists was the wrong term to use(a stupid knee jerk reaction on my part) just as White Ppl and Fear may have been the wrong term. Maybe Western Culture and Fear would have been better?


>what is the rhetoric "ignorant" of?
>
There are over 250 threads in your post. Some agree some disagree what more needs to be said???????????

>

>>well Qoolskip y don't u share
>>some of your intelligence w/
>>us, instead of constantly telling
>>ppl how intelligent u "thought"
>>they were. y not have
>>a discussion instead of running
>>out with your hands over
>>your ears, screaming "RACIST!"
>>i mean really, which is more
>>intelligent?
>>who has the closed mind?
>>the one who tries to understand
>>what is being said a
>>la Sunday or the one
>>flying away like the little
>>bee he purports himself to
>>be?
>>
>
>"flying away like a little bee"?????
>i no understand

Uta called u a pesky flea, u said more like a buzzing bee. i feel like u r a pretty young person for some reason, so i'm not getting the short-term memory.


>>and answer my question: what did
>>i say thst was racist?
>>(assuming for un momentito that
>>i can be racist)
>>
>
>racists was the wrong term to
>use(a stupid knee jerk reaction
>on my part) just as
>White Ppl and Fear may
>have been the wrong term.
>Maybe Western Culture and Fear
>would have been better?

what did i tell u about that "s"? :) see that's what i don't get, u feel now it was knee-jerk reaction and the wrong term, but u ain't let nobody know that. u just left it like "BAM! U racist, i'm out." and your knee jerked >1 time.

>>what is the rhetoric "ignorant" of?
>>
>There are over 250 threads in
>your post. Some agree some
>disagree what more needs to
>be said???????????
>

know what? i'ma leave u alone.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>Uta called u a pesky flea,
>u said more like a
>buzzing bee. i feel like
>u r a pretty young
>person for some reason, so
>i'm not getting the short-term
>memory.
>

yes my memory does suck but what gets me is that you feel that i'm a young person so that must mean my posts are "child-like" or "immature".

>what did i tell u about that "s"? :) see that's what i don't get, u feel now it was knee-jerk reaction and the wrong term, but u ain't let nobody know that. u just left it like "BAM! U racist, i'm out." and your knee jerked >1 time.
>
>>>what is the rhetoric "ignorant" of?
>>>
>>There are over 250 threads in
>>your post. Some agree some
>>disagree what more needs to
>>be said???????????
>>
>
>know what? i'ma leave u alone.
>
I just feel that "we" as in all people need to come together and stop the fingering pointing. Yes this society is "fugged" up. But would it be any better if it was ran by blacks or asians or puerto ricans? NO. Would it be any better if the whole world was black. NO! Why? Because people would still find a reason to hate each other. People are going to hate each other because of religious reasons, political reasons, because this person is fat or the other is skinny or she's light skin, or he has freckles. Its all "silly" and in my opinion a sign of ignorance.
Am I guilty of some of this fingering pointing? Yes. But I want to change that. I used to get mad when I would see a black woman with a white guy. Why? Its silly. As long as they LOVE each other then why should it matter? No race is more dominant then the other.
So lets stop the White Ppl this Black Ppl that syndrome and LOVE each other like GOD wants us to do.
GOD gave us free will. Lets not abuse his gift by hating or finger pointing. Show some LOVE.

Yimhotep

>yes my memory does suck but
>what gets me is that
>you feel that i'm a
>young person so that must
>mean my posts are "child-like"
>or "immature".

r u under 21?

ok now we're getting somewhere, Qoolskip speaks.
>I just feel that "we" as
>in all people need to
>come together and stop the
>fingering pointing. Yes this society
>is "fugged" up. But would
>it be any better if
>it was ran by blacks
>or asians or puerto ricans?
>NO.

where is your evidence? what do u base this statement on? history? have u ever looked at a time when the world was not "run" by whites?

>Would it be any
>better if the whole world
>was black. NO!

what do u base this is on? history? have u ever looked @ a time when your whole world was black? define "better."

>Why? Because
>people would still find a
>reason to hate each other.
>People are going to hate
>each other because of religious
>reasons, political reasons, because this
>person is fat or the
>other is skinny or she's
>light skin, or he has
>freckles.

what do u base this is on? history? who are these "people" u refer to? _all_ people? how did this hate manifest itself? show me when all ppl were _kiling_ ppl b/c of their freckles, size, religion, politics. break it down, every single ppl.

read: They Came Before Columbus, Dr. Ivan Van Sertima
watch/listen to: Malcolm X tapes

have different ppl ever been able to live peacefully among one another w/o fighting/killing. I've seen plenty a time when Christians and Muslims have been able to live peacefully, b4 alien intervention. but that's more recent. take me back and forward Qoolskip.

Its all "silly" and
>in my opinion a sign
>of ignorance.
>Am I guilty of some of
>this fingering pointing? Yes. But
>I want to change that.
>I used to get mad
>when I would see a
>black woman with a white
>guy. Why? Its silly. As
>long as they LOVE each
>other then why should it
>matter? No race is more
>dominant then the other.
>So lets stop the White Ppl
>this Black Ppl that syndrome
>and LOVE each other like
>GOD wants us to do.

i understand what u are saying Qoolskip. Universal Love is a wonderful thing and something for us all to strive to. But tell me, what would u tell a woman in an abusive relationship? if she leaves the man, if she tells other ppl "this is what this an has done" if she warns other ppl of this mans behaviour, is she wrong? does she "hate" him? should she not "point the finger @ him?" should she demand respect from him? or should she stay and show her "love?"

>Show some LOVE.

that's all i got 4 u man.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>r u under 21?
>

I'm not answering that one.

>ok now we're getting somewhere, Qoolskip
>speaks.
>>I just feel that "we" as
>>in all people need to
>>come together and stop the
>>fingering pointing. Yes this society
>>is "fugged" up. But would
>>it be any better if
>>it was ran by blacks
>>or asians or puerto ricans?
>>NO.
>
>where is your evidence? what do
>u base this statement on?
>history? have u ever looked
>at a time when the
>world was not "run" by
>whites?
>

Take a look at Ireland. All white yet they can't get along due to religious differences. Both believe in Jesus yet they ignore the one commandment he gave man. "Love each other as I have loved you."
The Sudan enslaves Christians.

>what do u base this is
>on? history? have u ever
>looked @ a time when
>your whole world was black?
>define "better."
>
>what do u base this is
>on? history? who are these
>"people" u refer to? _all_
>people? how did this hate
>manifest itself? show me when
>all ppl were _kiling_ ppl
>b/c of their freckles, size,
>religion, politics. break it down,
>every single ppl.
>
>read: They Came Before Columbus, Dr.
>Ivan Van Sertima
>watch/listen to: Malcolm X tapes

I've read and listened to Malcolm X. What people tend to forget is his philosphy changed once he made a trip to Mecca. He saw people of different races getting along. If Malcolm was still here today would he still be preaching the message of hate? No. He would be preaching against the evils of this society.

>have different ppl ever been able
>to live peacefully among one
>another w/o fighting/killing. I've
>seen plenty a time when
>Christians and Muslims have been
>able to live peacefully, b4
>alien intervention. but that's more
>recent. take me back and
>forward Qoolskip.
>
Its obvious that you are well read and intelligent. As a matter of fact I apologize for using the term ignorant maybe i should have used "misplaced intelligence" (thats too pc.)
I'm a simple person. I love sports and music. You're more in tune with culture and history. I can't begin to battle you on a intellectual level. I'm the type that finds the Simpson's funny.

No, I do not have historical facts. My opinions are based on my life experiences and the few books that I have read. So no I can't take you back and forth and discuss with you the history of different cultures.
BUT if you do have some info about past cultures and what happen before the "alien intervention" then please pass it along. If its the story about Yakub and his creation of the blue-eyed devil then I'll pass unless of course you have some historical data that could back that story.

>i understand what u are saying
>Qoolskip. Universal Love is
>a wonderful thing and something
>for us all to strive
>to. But tell me,
>what would u tell a
>woman in an abusive relationship?
> if she leaves the
>man, if she tells other
>ppl "this is what this
>an has done" if she
>warns other ppl of this
>mans behaviour, is she wrong?
>does she "hate" him? should
>she not "point the finger
>@ him?" should she demand
>respect from him? or should
>she stay and show her
>"love?"
>

I could understand anybody being angry and having some hate in there heart after being abused. But I feel that one should recognize that hate and not let it take over there soul. Don't pass on the wrong done to you to others. Seek some help psychologically or spiritually.

Yimhotep


So many thoughts have gone thru my mind thinking about how to respond to this, sinc ei read it last night. this morning, this afternoon. "his humility is touching," i thought. i mean, i felt like i had been attacking u after i read "i'm a simple person." what w/ my barrage of "who? what? when? where? why? show me, show me, show me!" after all, there's nothing wrong w/ being simple. enjoying the simple pleasures in life is a rather good thing. then i recalled your post and saw that in that sense there's nothing wrong w/ being simple, but that's not what u meant. now u might want the reader to think u meant that, heck u might even think it yourself, but the use of the word simple in that context is not as i have outlined above.

"I can't begin to battle you on a intellectual level."
this is not an intellectual battle. i'm not battling u Qoolskip. this is not "i know everything, show me what u know, and i'll show u i know more." i'm simply asking how u are coming to the conclusions that u seem so sure of, that u raise your CAPS! so when u answer w/ "i'm a simple person and i cannot begin to battle u... " frankly that's unacceptable to me. "simple" in that context is an excuse for not.., for not... (whispering) doing better.

Trust me, u don't want to be the kind of person who seems confident about what he is saying then when someone presses, u fall apart like a house of cards that an elephant just sneezed on.

"My opinions are based on my life experiences and the few books that I have read."
this is not true either. your life experiences tell u a lot more than the nothing u have told me. u c Qoolskip, u r not just Mr. Qool Skip, u r the earthy representation of everyone that came b4 u and everyone who will come after. as such, your life experiences are not what u remember in your 15(?) years - j/k (about the age). your experienc eis in your memory in genes your experience, starts from the begining of time and since the beginning of time u have had experience w/ the subjects of this post up until now, and those experiences, all of them and the ones "u" haven't had yet are your life experiences. now if u don't talk to those who came b4 u, then they can't jog your memory, in any case they left records of their/your life experiences. look @ them, u will come to a much different conclusion than the one u chant.

But would
>>it be any better if
>>it was ran by blacks
>>or asians or puerto ricans?
>>NO.
i/u/We want to get away from repeating what sounds like logic in place of truth. it seems logical that since we walk on a flat road, the world must be flat, we know that is not the case. it seems logical , the same way it seems logical that if one ppl are a crtn way crtnyly everybody is/would be. let's not make statements like this unless we r absolutely sure.

No, I do not have historical facts. My opinions are based on my life experiences and the few books that I have read. So no I can't take you back and forth and discuss with you the history of different cultures.
BUT if you do have some info about past cultures and what happen before the "alien intervention" then please pass it along. If its the story about Yakub and his creation of the blue-eyed devil then I'll pass unless of course you have some historical data that could back that story.

i don't know anything about this story, this is the 2nd time i've heard about it, the 1st: in the Fear post.

>i understand what u are saying
>Qoolskip. Universal Love is
>a wonderful thing and something
>for us all to strive
>to. But tell me,
>what would u tell a
>woman in an abusive relationship?
> if she leaves the
>man, if she tells other
>ppl "this is what this
>an has done" if she
>warns other ppl of this
>mans behaviour, is she wrong?
>does she "hate" him? should
>she not "point the finger
>@ him?" should she demand
>respect from him? or should
>she stay and show her
>"love?"
>

I could understand anybody being angry and having some hate in there heart after being abused. But I feel that one should recognize that hate and not let it take over there soul. Don't pass on the wrong done to you to others. Seek some help psychologically or spiritually.

u completely avoided the question. how does the woman _deal_ with the abuser? does she have an obligation to warn others?
since the abusive relationship analogy went kersplat, i'll try another one. We should love everyone no doubt about that ok. but flow with me for a bit. the world is like a large body. in order for the body to work, the internal parts have to work w/ each other don't they? ok, say the different races of the world are the parts. black individuals are the cells of the heart. the different black nations (Yoruba, Akan, Zulu, African_American etc.) are the tissues. There are a set of tissues that have been removed from the heart, the cells are dispersed and they float around the body. The cells don't remember which organ they come from, so they stick on to the spleen, they stick on the stomach, they stick onto the lungs. They, as individual cells are of no use to these organs are they? only when they re-member themselves & join together as the heart can they make a proper contribution to overall working of the body. suppose all the cells mixed themselves all together, forsaking their reponsibilities as heart, spleen, pancreas? what would we have? so before u can go for Universal Love u must have love and respect for self, and ppl must respect u too, or else u are of no consequence.

This Love is the answer stuff? Don't nobody love some white folks more than black folks. where has it gotten us? if black ppl didn't love white ppl they wouldn't be rushing to "heal" after _we've_ been wronged, we wouldn't be rushing to fry and lock up our children after they've been wronged (by this society), they would personally take up plungers and shove them up the anuses of the policemen who committed that ac of barbarism, they would empty out their guns 40x40 times to avenge the death of Amadou Diallo, Tawana Bradley, there would be no such thing as "truth and reconciliation" hearings. So we've done that, and if it doesn't work, what should u do?


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

What a weird world and small world you live in.

I live in a world where there are many kinds of loves.
Many kinds of people.
Many kinds of gods.

I know, I am picking apart your sig, but I don't want none o' dat in my anything.

*shudders*

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Some of my best friends are black. Really.

________________________________________
"its understanding that let's people like me tolerate people like u."
-ferris bueller

"some nights we got so drunk its like we missed the feeling/ of a neverending headache and a spinnig ceiling"
-cann ox-painkillers

"oh yeah, i got the insense too
freshly dipped in yukon piss
git yours on the way out the door, bitch."
-blak_yukon

what more do u ppl want?!


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso.."

-Giovanni

"Life without knowledge is death in disguise." Talib Kweli

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news:
http://www.myafghan.com
http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

your skin
2 make body suits with
so i can get a job, not be pulled over by police, be on the news,
the list goes on

I agree with this to a point. I have a lotta tattoo's, and that's my choice, so when I get hassled by the cops for fitting a criminal profile and they search my car and all other kinds of shit, it does make me feel like "damn, black people go through this shit and didn't even have a choice in it". So, I do see the point. White guilt is rough though. You know how many times I've been on here and read some post like White PPL & Fear and think to myself, what the fuck is wrong with people? White people can't help the fact that we were born white any more than you can help the fact that you were born black. Having it shoved down my throat for 26 years that my anestors, blah, blah, blah doesn't help. If you want to address racism, that's great, I'm behind you 100% against that ill shit. If you want to say things about white people in general and group me into a category because of my skin color, that's fucked up. Since apparently you know what that feels like, you would think you wouldn't do it to other people. Point being, my ancestors may have been dumb ass crackers (actually they were Irish, so they were most likely identured servants or some shit), but I'm not. A bunch of wrongs don't make anything right, and none of this is productive at all.

opression is a historical thing than u too are one dumb cracker

the thing is that the white/black dichotomy cuts issues short

we live in a world of colonizations and temptations. the persistent opression runs deep because the tools of it are so deeply embedded in how we think and act

the war we shd be fighting is a psychological war with ourselves to cleanse and purify our own minds and bodies and reclaim our lives and the lives of those round us from "the matrix".



==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso.."

-Giovanni

"Life without knowledge is death in disguise." Talib Kweli

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news:
http://www.myafghan.com
http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

If you weren't married
and I wasn't gay
I would think about
asking you to be
my lady.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Well, then you tell me how I am currently oppressing anyone, I would be glad to stop. Once again, what I am saying is that there is no reason for this. If you want to address the issues with racist whites, then you should refer to them as racist whites, crackers, or rednecks. There is a difference, you shouldn't group all kinds of white people into one big category. I don't think oppression is a historical thing (and I'm not a dumb cracker) as much as it is an ongoing thing, but I think that is an issue that needs to be addressed without making it a color issue (there are plenty of disadvantaged hispanics and other races as well, and even some whites). Here's the deal, everyone on here seems pretty intelligent, but what about the people who might just glance at it and think that you guys are white-hating, militant seperatists based on some post like this. Think about people you see on the street everyday and their intelligence level. So at that point, you are giving someone with a lower intelligence level a reason to hate a whole race as a defensive factor. I have seen this happen before. You can either educate these people in the right way by addressing real issues or instil in them a fear of black people and hip hop. Your call, just my thoughts.

for self relection

the reason why oppression and hatred are such strong forces is because they run so deep within all of us

as human beings we all play a variety of roles, some conscious and some not

there is nothing to be gained by declaring yourself safe and calling your hands clean- dig deeper

color has no role in this beyond a quick method of prejudice. it all goes a lot deeper-

slavery is still in effect. colonization is still in effect. and too many people are out on a hunt for "the man". fk that. "the man" is in all of us. dig deeper. cleanse yrself.

this board is mostly abt self awareness. ppl who misjudge it aren't listenning. i don't know so many other places or ppl that discuss the kindsa things we discuss. i suspect ppl just see that it's different and want sumthin to dismiss it as. really with everything i've learned from these ppl here, the opinions of ppl who don't even bother to pay attention to the conversation don't really interest me too much, although at times i'll get bored and address them.


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso.."

-Giovanni

"Life without knowledge is death in disguise." Talib Kweli

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

"if i'm smart enough to sneak around and learn to fly a plane to get me and all my friends enough false i.d. to board us airplanes to get me and all my friends through metal detectors and past security guards while hiding weapons to make an entire plane load of people afraid of my boxcutter i doubt i would be stupid enough to leave all the evidence behind in a rental car
unless i wanted you to think i was something that i'm not" (c) 2ndsurvivor

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

useful links:
news:
http://www.myafghan.com
http://www.blackelectorate.com/links.asp
veg: http://www.vrg.org

I agree. I'm just sayin, stuff like White PPL & Fear and even the beginnings of this post can definitely draw a line for.....say some kid in Idaho. So this cat thinks he's excluded, doesn't know any black ppl, then get's approached about joining some white aryan militant group. What do you think will stick out in his mind when they are telling him that it's an us against them thing? Check post # 72.

>Well, then you tell me how
>I am currently oppressing anyone,
>I would be glad to
>stop.

Oppression is an institutional thing. You may not be oppressing anyone at this moment or at all, but as long as others like you (and me) oppress and nothing is done, we are guilty of it. "It takes a village, to raise institutional racism."

And PLEASE don't bring the Irish indentured servitude thing into it. There is no comparision to be made there. That argument is equivalent to the "Africans had slaves too" argument. Irish are still "White". How can you distinguish an Irish person that can do an English accent from an English person? You can't.

Once again, what
>I am saying is that
>there is no reason for
>this. If you want
>to address the issues with
>racist whites, then you should
>refer to them as racist
>whites, crackers, or rednecks.
>There is a difference, you
>shouldn't group all kinds of
>white people into one big
>category.

Racial profiling sucks.

>I don't think
>oppression is a historical thing
>(and I'm not a dumb
>cracker) as much as it
>is an ongoing thing, but
>I think that is an
>issue that needs to be
>addressed without making it a
>color issue (there are plenty
>of disadvantaged hispanics and other
>races as well, and even
>some whites).

There are more (finacially) disadvantaged whites in the U.S. This is based on the fact that there are a lot of White people out there. But the fact that you say "even some whites" is part of the issue. But this is a whole class thing that I don't want to get into.

>Here's the
>deal, everyone on here seems
>pretty intelligent, but what about
>the people who might just
>glance at it and think
>that you guys are white-hating,
>militant seperatists based on some
>post like this.

"I love you, you love me, we're a happy family..."


>Think
>about people you see on
>the street everyday and their
>intelligence level. So at
>that point, you are giving
>someone with a lower intelligence
>level a reason to hate
>a whole race as a
>defensive factor.

So, maybe ?uestLove should censor posts before they are released to the public.

Anything said on this site is not giving anyone their values or opinions. Unless there's 2 year olds reading this board all others have already formed their opinions. They can either listening to real discussion or re-enforce whatever they want.

> I have
>seen this happen before.
>You can either educate these
>people in the right way
>by addressing real issues or
>instil in them a fear
>of black people and hip
>hop.

There parents did that long before they met you. {And just between you and me...a lot of this hip-hop out here today is scary, how do these cats get signed?}

ugh!

I disagree w/everything you and the other Anti-Everythingers say as a knee-jerk reaction. That's not good. But it's hard not to when you post bullshit like this.

Do you feel we should only respond to posts w/which we agree?

carry on.

why can't we all just get along? for real? what do people want? how do we all wanna change the society we live in? and what are we doing towards that end? maybe i should start a new thread with those questions...

I wasnt there why even be guilty?

Thats a very good excuse and not even your 30 page verbose techorama explanation or your cryptic interview to yourself can argue that.

I can sum up my thesis

Slavery happened because of some dumb men.

Racism happened because of some dumb men.

Thats why it continues to happen. People like to be dumb.


But even if I was there 400 years ago what could I say or do "Uh I disagree I think these foreigners we can learn from lets not.."

Yea ...thats it. I would have been chilling in my cabin fishing off a raft on a river drinkin from a Wooden canteen that I would have traded for some Salmon.

Anyways to be honest with you I dont think we are truly represented of our colors our eyes are completely filtered from many colors so to say "WHITE" is kind of like saying "BLACK"

To be honest I dont truly know what color a being really is.



Which is more I can say for most people who "JUMP the gun" and associate everybody a primary crayola color. Think about that for a second.

Sorry I wont play that game.


If you have Crystal castles maybe but this game is detrimental to ones health.



next.....





Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

>I wasnt there why be guilty?

>I wasnt there why even be
>guilty?

And yet, you benefit from it.

>Thats a very good excuse
>and not even your 30
>page verbose techorama explanation or
>your cryptic interview to yourself
>can argue that.
>
>I can sum up my thesis
>
>
>Slavery happened because of some dumb
>men.

dumb white men (and probably women, too)

>Racism happened because of some dumb
>men.

dumb white men... and women, too

>Thats why it continues to happen.

No, it continues because dumb white men and women, who maybe aren't quite so dumb, when you think about it, like their privilege and sense of superiority... and because it (racism) perpetuates itself and moves into intangible forms which y'all won't believe because y'all don't believe in anything that cannot be touched, prodded, and analyzed.

>People like to be dumb.

White people like to be dumb -- in terms of racism.


>But even if I was there
>400 years ago what could
>I say or do "Uh
>I disagree I think these
>foreigners we can learn from
>lets not.."

Why not? There were white people who opposed it.

>Anyways to be honest with you
>I dont think we are
>truly represented of our colors
>our eyes are completely filtered
>from many colors so to
>say "WHITE" is kind of
>like saying "BLACK"

Who ever said it was really about colors? I tend to think it's about cultural imperalism and hegemony. How about you?

>To be honest I dont truly
>know what color a being
>really is.

Whatever consciousness lives in said being's head.

>Which is more I can say
>for most people who "JUMP
>the gun" and associate everybody
>a primary crayola color. Think
>about that for a second.

I don't think you know what people mean when they say Black or white... And there are other brands... like RoseArt...

>Sorry I wont play that game.

Sorry, but you already did.

>If you have Crystal castles maybe
>but this game is detrimental
>to ones health.

Not yours because you have the privilege to not "play" to not deal and be comfy in the privilege you are benefitting from, no matter where your ancestors were.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Yimhotep

>dumb white men (and probably women,
>too)
>

_White Witch of Rosehall_ (story of Annie Palmer)
i'm going to make that a movie one day.

i wish someone would explain this idea of hip-hop breaking racial barriers. the same ppl saying "if u don't like it go home", "so sick and tired of hearing your ancestors blah blah blah" are the same ppl we're supposedly nodding our heads to the music w/ in the set. these are the ppl who are "into blk culture" as long as we're not focusing on them (complaints about Dead Prez).
i'm perplexed.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

I downloaded a 64 minute long bootleg MP3, from when The Roots visited Norway in 97. In the middle of the concert, tariq (bt's name, right?)

"I want yall to look around yall on this
field and whatever and what the fuck they from, aight
it's peace all the way
and peep the people
and the different mixtures of, of.. cultures and, and..
and people with different origins and races and..
and lifestyles and careers and paths
that are on this course, right here.. right about now
just dig wit that
dig wit all these different personalities and shit
and dig wit me this music, this culture that we call HIPHOP!
got the power to bring about change!
and it got the power to, yknahmsayn, spark shit off
bring people together
there, there you have it right here
this the manifestation of that

I say all of that just to say,
that was just my intro, aight
so i can do the b-boy run dmc part
and we be like this, when i'm like...
KNAHMSAYN!!"

He yelled it out so you loud heard echoes go back and forth... and people be screaming, clapping and whistling

then he started Concerto of the desperado.. having the crowd go "hiphop music!!!" when he says "It aint nuttin like".. like on the swedish bootleg.

I liked that.. :)
just had to post it

When was the last time you saw an all blacks in a bboy battle? all white? all asians? Ive held many hip-hop shows and its participants have been all colors. There are probably lots of whites who would be scared of blacks had they not gotten into the culture. It had brought people together that lots of people have never thought whod be brought together. Hanging out at a local hip-hop store, people of all hues come down and hang out with each other. Hip-hop seems to be breaking dowm barriers, you go to a rock show and its predominatly caucasian.


Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

the two first hiphop concerts ive been to.. wyclef jean and common, both preached that same message to the crowds. Very much the same as blackthought did in 97 (my message above)

Perhaps it is a trick to hype the crowds.. but it works :7 And the message is good

breakin down barriers. and parties downtown toronto are mixed we get everybody. but there are neighbourhoods here where you get predominantly black parties. it kinda depends.

but the perfect example of what you're saying i saw in malaysia this summer. there are three predominant groups of people there, the malay, the indian, and the chinese (and that is the order of wealth distribution between those three groups from the lowest to the highest, respectively). when you go to clubs in kuala lumpur all the patrons are just about all chinese other than a couple of indian people and a coupla white tourists. the staff at these places is always all malay. the music is always horrible house. i was dying the first few times i went out, it just wasn't no way that i do good times.

finally we found a place that plays hip hop and r'n'b (mainstream mind you, but at that point i was like bring that nelly and destiny's child i can't wait!) this place turned out to be wicked. there were all kinds of people there and the vibe was just the way i like it. before i found this place i thought there were no black people in malaysia, it was wierd. there were malay, indian, chinese, black, and white people all mixed up (and the staff was all mixed up too), everyone dancing up a storm, singin, and having the best time. its the only place like it i found in malaysia and i travelled all over that place from coast to coast and jungle to jungle. shit was segregated everyone except for that one fuckin joint. and it played hip hop.

they actually manage to balance the various backgrounds and religions very well I thought, on the everyday.
BTW, did you get to Taman Negara? (sorry - post jack)
-B

}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Yimhotep

>When was the last time you
>saw an all blacks in
>a bboy battle? all white?
>all asians? Ive held many
>hip-hop shows and its participants
>have been all colors.
>There are probably lots of
>whites who would be scared
>of blacks had they not
>gotten into the culture.
>It had brought people together
>that lots of people have
>never thought whod be brought
>together. Hanging out at
>a local hip-hop store, people
>of all hues come down
>and hang out with each
>other. Hip-hop seems to
> be breaking dowm barriers,
>you go to a rock
>show and its predominatly caucasian.
>

i did not say they were all white /black. altho' i attended a dead prez show in England and most peeps were white (and high). but i'd like to hear some black ppl (not the artists) saying hip hop is "breaking down barriers." what does this mean exactly? i mean, does it mean that blk ppl and white ppl are able to dance in the same room? listen to the same music? didn't we do this in the '70s? i guess i need a definition of "breaking down barriers". what does it mean "after the morning after" (c) Frankie Beverly w/ Maze, u know? after the music's off, don't we go our separate ways? so is this barrier broken down for the moment? school me, i'm listening.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>Yimhotep
>
>>When was the last time you
>>saw an all blacks in


>i did not say they were
>all white /black. altho' i
>attended a dead prez show
>in England and most peeps
>were white (and high). but
>i'd like to hear some
>black ppl (not the artists)
>saying hip hop is "breaking
>down barriers." what does this
>mean exactly?
Racial barriers imposed on us. People that elderlys, gov't, hate groups and such that say we should not be together. Blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, getting together, talking, getting to know each other, and having a good time.
i mean, does
>it mean that blk ppl
>and white ppl are able
>to dance in the same
>room? listen to the same
>music? didn't we do this
>in the '70s?
>i need a definition of
>"breaking down barriers". what does
>it mean "after the morning
>after" (c) Frankie Beverly w/
>Maze, u know? after the
>music's off, don't we go
>our separate ways?
No, actually it has brought lots of people together, people meet others "oh you break, whats you number, we need to get together and get down sometime, consider yourself part of the crew.
"oh you rhyme too? lets battle or lets get a cypher going on."
Of course there are always people that you see from time to time, and dont really keep up each other, but when they see each other its all love. But thats bound to happen. And usuall ITS NOT A RACE THING. Its happened with headz of all hues. So, every time you met a group of whites at a show you kept in constant touch with them?
so is
>this barrier broken down for
>the moment?
barrier is always broken down. Like I said hip-hop has brought me and my crew together, and we are people you would not thing be hanging out. 36 and 28 year old black dudes hanging out with 19 year old white dudes? b-boyin', doing graf. That sound like "barriers being broken down" esp. dudes that said they went through times when they did not like white people.(dont want to say racist, b/c 20 ppl are gonna jump on me for that) So you obviously by your question posed at me take time and get to know those of different races from you at hip-hop shows didnt go your separate way. Or maybe you do, and think everyone else does.
school me, i'm
>listening.
>
>
>Shemhotep
>************



Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

If you want to hear blacks say breaking down barriers, maybe you should come down here, and talk to some people in my crew, who have said the same things, that artists like common and black thought have said

Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

That did not answer the question in my opinion.

It seems, to me, that things continue in the wake of one cultural expression -- and it isn't african. The idea of individuals coming together.

That was disturbing.

Carry on.

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

>It seems, to me, that things
>continue in the wake of
>one cultural expression -- and
>it isn't african. The idea
>of individuals coming together.
>
>That was disturbing.

I understand u afraid hiphop will be getting watered out (hope i got you right?).. i can see where you come from, (......USA }>).

But i dont' agree with you, what is disturbing? That "individuals are coming together"? When individuals come together in a friendly "we in it together" way, i usually see mostly good in it.. specially when it comes to hiphop.

When crowds come together, and say the break down barriers, i think... i think it GOT the power to break down barriers. If you dont use or take advantage of that power, you've got some work to do

To me, when they talk about breaking down barriers, that means going international (not mainstream overground), reaching new crowds. Sorry to use a too much used cliché: Without hip hop i wouldn't be here, reading utamaroho, Solarus, you ;-), Koku, Tohunga.. now that is one barrier broken, i learn new shit all the time, even now

If you want to take advantage of that barrier broken down, teach me some shit too, go ahead, click "Reply".. it's right there... bellow >>>

*shakes head*

No, you didn't get it.
Maybe I was being glib.
abstract
vague


Solarus, if you are reading this, honey, you should know that simply uttering the word "white" makes the guilt drift up to the surface, per Kemetian's post. And furthermore, I don't think it's only white people who are guilty. Some black people have ingested their guilt and call it their own.

Fred, if I may call you that, it is not about being afraid of being "watered down". Please. That is not a fear of mine and not a naturally occurring fear within my cultural asili. Indeed, my Ancestors have always known difference and accepted it readily. As so many white people like to say, Africa is a vast continent. Yeah, it is. And the people there didn't all look alike either. And they didn't fight because of that superficial difference, as far as I know, because it isn't a part of them. And as we were moved to these shores, we often saw this same thing within our own families. Most of us have white blood flowing through our veins, Native American blood, both, other kinds of blood, but we have never feared difference nor being "watered down," so your analysis was... just not _there_.

Individuals. Is. A. Creepy. Word. And. An. Even. Creepier. Concept.

Is that clear. As long as people are "coming together" under the guise of being "individuals" as far as the so-called harmony of hip-hop, what is being experienced is just your (read: white/European/Euro-American) culture. Cultures of African descent are relational, community-oriented, not goal-oriented. Don't get confused! When you go to a hip-hop show, despite who the audience is made of, if the artist is Black, she or he is going to bring their flava to the performance and that flava is going to be the gem of her or his culture -- which is not going to be about individuals coming together, but about building community amongst the audience/fans. However, if you white people look at it as being "not white or Black" about "individuals coming together" you are going to miss it because you are too busy indulging and enjoying your own culture so much that you will miss out on what you are experiencing -- or should be experiencing.... connection... and a flow of energy, an exchange with the universe. Black culture at its fullest and finest.

Instead, you are corrupting your experience of it by viewing it through your cultural hegemony.

Which is fine. Your culture and all. Woohoo! Ya know? But I think that is the center of why so many people are skeptical of all of this so-called togetherness a lot of y'all keep spouting. It is great to love hip-hop. Hip-hop _is_ wonderful. NeoSoul hits the spot. But you could chanllenge yourself to learn about what it is you are receiving, realizing that it isn't something you are familiar with, realizing that the reason you like it so much is because it isn't empty, like your culture... which forces the question, why do you only choose to look at it through your culture when it obviously has nothing to do with it... in the best and worst of times?

*shrugs*

Is that clear enough?

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

>*shakes head*

;-)

>No, you didn't get it.
>Maybe I was being glib.
>abstract
>vague

Mh, i didn't understand you, i should have read it more than 4 times (i thought after 4 times i must have got it). Sorry i misunderstood you

>Fred, if I may call you
>that,

Sure thing, Q

>my Ancestors have always known
>difference and accepted it readily.
>As so many white people
>like to say, Africa is
>a vast continent. Yeah, it
>is. And the people there
>didn't all look alike either.

Yes. if you've read posts ive made you should know that i know that, it's a ting i've thought about much these last months

>but we have
>never feared difference nor being
>"watered down," so your analysis
>was... just not _there_.

Sorry, i was using what i have been taught. Remember, i come from an european family. Not American, but still european. I'm taking one loong step back away from the american culture and the worst of the european culture, but i'm not old enough and havent had enough time to take a good step away from what i've been taught and is still being taught by my parents

But i like what you wrote, it is very true from what i know (but dont practise)

>Individuals. Is. A. Creepy. Word. And.
>An. Even. Creepier. Concept.
>
>Is that clear. As long as
>people are "coming together" under
>the guise of being "individuals"
>as far as the so-called
>harmony of hip-hop, what is
>being experienced is just your
>(read: white/European/Euro-American) culture.

Not euro-american

I replied to this (in the first post):

>It seems, to me, that things
>continue in the wake of
>one cultural expression -- and
>it isn't african. The idea
>of individuals coming together.
>
>That was disturbing."

I didn't understand the first part, so what i read was "The idea of individuals coming together. That was disturbing". I didn't put much thought to individuals, i just thought a group of people, of different backgrounds, coming together. I thought you said it was disturbing that people (not individuals) of different backgrounds come together to enjoy hiphop.

I didn't say individuals because i thought that was a damn good word to use ;). But true, i also didn't read it and think "it is a word that gots to do with much of the negative sides of western thought, i mustn't use it.". I even haven't heard the things you are saying before, not that clearly. It was good to read, it makes much sense from what i see in european culture. I see at least some of what you mean (thinking individually compared to in a unity). It's got lots to do with the general african thinking vs. the general western thinking

Like this:
>Cultures of
>African descent are relational, community-oriented,
>not goal-oriented.

Yes. i don't see much of the african culture, but i see and have seen very much of the goal-oriented individual-based culture. Heck, i grew up in it and was brought up on it. Even my parents who are very different from it, they are "alternative", they have much of it.. I realize that when i am on these boards

>When you go to a
>hip-hop show, despite who the
>audience is made of, if
>the artist is Black, she
>or he is going to
>bring their flava to the
>performance and that flava is
>going to be the gem
>of her or his culture
>-- which is not going
>to be about individuals coming
>together, but about building community
>amongst the audience/fans. However, if
>you white people look at
>it as being "not white
>or Black" about "individuals coming
>together" you are going to
>miss it because you are
>too busy indulging and enjoying
>your own culture so much
>that you will miss out
>on what you are experiencing
>-- or should be experiencing....
>connection... and a flow of
>energy, an exchange with the
>universe. Black culture at its
>fullest and finest.

That is very true
Not that i miss that connection and energy, but that "the artist is building a community with the audience/fans"

I've been to one show with a black artist like the one your talked about - Common.. (and loved it!). It was his culture at its fullest and finest, and i was a part of that energy. It was my first show, it was strange and i didnt buck wild(?), but i enjoyed it all the way. During that show i realized that it was a smart move to not go all wild like some others in front of the stage did. I am very sure that i was very aware about that energy, but i also liked seeing fans from different cultures in the crowds (i dont see it very often in the part of norway i live in). Heck, it was in my head throughout the show, that what i experienced was all new.. i thought "this isn't hip hop, this is something different!". Common was very different from what i even thought he would be, much warmer, much more himself. He gave all of himself, his culture.. he flooded us with himself!

>Instead, you are corrupting your experience
>of it by viewing it
>through your cultural hegemony.

I tried not to do that, at least subcounciously(sp!)

I think i am doing what you said i should do:

>chanllenge yourself to learn
>about what it is you
>are receiving, realizing that it
>isn't something you are familiar
>with, realizing that the reason
>you like it so much
>is because it isn't empty,
>like your culture...

right on point

>which forces
>the question, why do you
>only choose to look at
>it through your culture when
>it obviously has nothing to
>do with it... in the
>best and worst of times?

Because i was brought up in it, still being fed it. I am constantly trying to go away from it.. ive never been so critical to what i hear, even from my parents, like i am now

I see the things you talk about all teh time, from narrowminded journalists in my family to the politicians of Norway

>*shrugs*
>
>Is that clear enough?

Very clear, and i enjoyed it all the way :)
Thank you, this was more than i expected

>
>Peace,
>
>Q

peace

I agree with Fred on this point, I have been to a couple. Not to recognize it as a culture different from my own and one that is based in sincerity and it's roots would be wrong. I don't really think my culture is empty though, but it is different. It is an incredible thing to witness though, I think for everyone involved. Seeing the Roots was the best show I have ever been too.

>I agree with Fred on this
>point, I have been to
>a couple. Not to
>recognize it as a culture
>different from my own and
>one that is based in
>sincerity and it's roots would
>be wrong. I don't
>really think my culture is
>empty though, but it is
>different. It is an
>incredible thing to witness though,
>I think for everyone involved.
> Seeing the Roots was
>the best show I have
>ever been too.

No disrespect meant, but it is empty, but it isn't your fault or even your ancestors fault. They didn't know they needed us for balance.

Besides, white culture _could_ have become something quite different.

And I challenge you and all white folks on this board to find out about the roots of their diverse cultures before being colonized themselves, pre-Plato and stupid Christianity and note the connection it had with African culture (in being oral) and try to force yourself to grow to meet that promise.

Cuz y'all got cheated, too.

Which, to bring it all full circle, is why white guilt sucks. We, meaning people of color, ain't the only ones who have suffered. Y'all all disconnected from the universe, each other, yourselves. And that ain't natural, ain't natural one bit.

Clean yourself out, surround yourself with people who can provide that balance that only people of color can provide, and move to what should have been your destiny -- besides emptiness, fear, and destruction.

Peace,

Q

(See, I do like white people, they are just misguided)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

See, that makes sense. I do think that cultures I do know some about my heritage(Irish/Scottish), and it's cool. I ain't about to eat no haagas though. I don't blame Christianity. I don't think my current culture is empty though. I grew up listening to, playing, going to shows in punk/hardcore scene. It doesn't seem empty to me. A lot of people's hearts are in that.

Heart?

In punk????

Unless you are talking about Patti Smith... you might need to reconsider.

A lot of disconnection, rage, and angst is that.
You can hear the emptiness in the lyrics
in the very chords that are used.

Come on! It won't hurt. and it isn't your fault. It is just empty and devoid of connection... it is the nature of the culture, not that you have to follow it and become like that... you know what I mean? But first, you have to see it. And you can't yet see it and mistake intensity for passion because the two are not one and the same...

dig?

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Not so much punk as hardcore. Check out a band called Bad Brains or Madball (album called Hold It Down). Yeah, it is angry, but there is heart in anger, and there are a lot of reasons to be angry in this world. I will admit it is a different culture, so it may seem empty to you, but much like hip hop, the music does something to you, and you do feel it.

Listen, I listen to more than hip-hop. Hell, I am even a classically trained vocalist.

Which means that I am very opposed to simply noise. I used to like Korn, for example, because they were about more than noise... all of their psuedo-followers... it just hurts my ears.

Anger is beautiful, if it is used. There is "heart" in any and all emotions. However, I need for music to give me more than anger or aggression. And therefore, when I look at it, it doesn't speak to me....

Now, as far as punk, you might wanna look at Patti Smith. Especially her album _Horses_ which is brilliant and _Easter_.

Peace, Eric,

Quentin

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Dude, I know what you are saying. Patti Smith was good. Korn, I dunno, they always just seemed to be in it for the money as far as I could tell. I think maybe it's cause you haven't been exposed to the underground stuff. It would be like someone looking at hip-hop from outside in. All they would be exposed to would be stuff like puff daddy and things like that and not even knowing there was stuff out there like Dilated and the Roots. Different in many ways. That's all I'm sayin. That music isn't for everyone, but it is pretty damn cool that you check out different styles. That's a sure sign of intelligence.

Cool, Federisco (I had to copy and paste it to remember how to spell it... I will not call you "Fred" as that is not your name and is disrespectful to boot and I am sorry for being lazy), but something else I want you to realize:

When you saw Common, what you got from seeing Common wasn't just a reflection of his culture, but a reflection of the culture of every Black person on this board.

I know, Common has been called out for geing homophobic (with his sexy ass, but maybe it's because he has been hit on, too much), but I do like and dig his work.

It is what it T-I-IS!

Peace,

Q



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Wrong, I dig Dead Prez, read interviews with M1. They were some of the most well thought out viewpoints I have ever heard, and I believe he is extremely intelligent. The thing is, I agree we live in a racist society, and I think it is oppressive, but drawing barriers based on color doesn't seem to be the best way to deal with it. That seems to me like it wouldn't leave room for people to choose what's right and wrong and suddenly get grouped into a category they don't really want to be in based on color. Somehow I think there has to be a better way to deal with it.

Okay, basically I see oppression through a socio-economic standpoint. The reason from what I have seen and can gather by looking at society is that once slavery ended, blacks were still discriminated against and left in a lower level of society to fend for themselves. This is an adequate reason to be pissed off and feel disadvantaged. That cycle continues because many areas have high drug and gang violence putting them at a further disadvantage. Reason number two to be pissed off. Also, this being one of the main problems as I see it, education in the lower level socio-economic class (black, white hispanic, whatever) is extremely lower in quality than those in the higher socio-economic class (predominately white), and nothing is really being done to change this. Reason number 3 to be pissed off. However, how can you generalize and assume that all white people are at an advantage? That we are all scared? That we all have white guilt? How is that right? When was the last time you lived out of your car and worked a full time job while going to school full time and ate out of Taco Bell dumpsters to stay alive to get a college education? I can tell you when the last time I had to do that was. If you want to address issues that oppress a race of people, or races of people (to actually be more fair about it) then do so, and instead of just bitching, why not come up with ways to change it. If hip-hop is truly going to be an evolution, then make it one. Where have all the good leaders gone? Martin Luther King Jr., Malcom X in his later years. Look at what we have now, Farrakhan, I think the guy has some great ideas and speaks truth in a lot of ways, but he usually has some racist overtones to his stuff, Jesse Jackson is a puppet, so why isn't anyone else stepping up and trying to do it right?

Yimhotep
>Okay, basically I see oppression through
>a socio-economic standpoint. The
>reason from what I have
>seen and can gather by
>looking at society is that
>once slavery ended,

reason number 0 - that slavery happened at all. but u have to look @ all the fx of slavery, it's not just as simple as that.
and "pissed off"? i'm pissed off b/c of recklss driving, i'm pissed off when i get a lower grade than i think i deserved, but uh, slavery and all of the other reasons u gave? no, i'm not "pissed off" b/c of those.

>blacks were
>still discriminated against and left
>in a lower level of
>society to fend for themselves.
> This is an adequate
>reason to be pissed off
>and feel disadvantaged.

ya think?

>That
>cycle continues because many areas
>have high drug and gang
>violence putting them at a
>further disadvantage. Reason number
>two to be pissed off.
>Also, this being one of
>the main problems as I
>see it, education in the
>lower level socio-economic class (black,
>white hispanic, whatever) is extremely
>lower in quality than those
>in the higher socio-economic class
>(predominately white), and nothing is
>really being done to change
>this. Reason number 3
>to be pissed off.
>However, how can you generalize
>and assume that all white
>people are at an advantage?

it is not an assumption. white ppl collectively r at an advantage.
But u don't have to take my word for it (c) Reading Rainbow Host
they're plenty of books u can read. try some preliminary googling: "white privelege"

it doesn't matter that one of u has to eat out of a garbage can. compare the numbers of blk ppl who do this to white. and it's not as simple as that either, we are talking about the psychological destruction of a ppl, not just giving them a lot of hard work to do. we are talking about lynchings, have u seen the pictures? what ppl seem to forget is that lynchings didn't happen that long ago. The smiling little white kids who used to go w/ their parents to watch this barbarism are still here as are those who spat on and attacked ppl during integration, bussing etc. and they're not all members of the KKK. so even if u don't want to look at slavery, there's plenty to look @ after the period.

> That we are all
>scared?

white collective consciousness is one rooted in fear ( i posit) if u have a better explanation for the behavior put it out there.

>That we all
>have white guilt? How
>is that right? When
>was the last time you
>lived out of your car
>and worked a full time
>job while going to school
>full time and ate out
>of Taco Bell dumpsters to
>stay alive to get a
>college education?

u made it far.

>I can
>tell you when the last
>time I had to do
>that was. If you
>want to address issues that
>oppress a race of people,
>or races of people (to
>actually be more fair about
>it) then do so, and
>instead of just bitching, why
>not come up with ways
>to change it.

1st things 1st, ppl have to understand that a problem exists at all. they have to find out what it stems from and deal w/ it there.

>If
>hip-hop is truly going to
>be an evolution, then make
>it one.

an evolution of what?
where exactly does hip hop fit in?

>Where have
>all the good leaders gone?
> Martin Luther King Jr.,
>Malcom X in his later
>years.

i _know_ u r not seriously asking this question. u don't know what happened to them and Lumumba and Walter Rodney and Cheik Anta Diop for that matter?

Look at what
>we have now, Farrakhan, I
>think the guy has some
>great ideas and speaks truth
>in a lot of ways,
>but he usually has some
>racist overtones to his stuff,


what exactly has he said that makes u _personally_ think he has "racist overtones"? what are those (racist overtones) exactly?


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Well, as far as the fact that slavery happened at all, it was messed up. It is a reason for righteous anger. I was only using pissed off in a general term. I know slavery has had long term effects, no doubt. I agree with you on all of these points, basically I'm on the same side as you. So instead of talking about how white people, western culture, white imperialism, whatever is wrong, which just about anyone with a mind would agree with, let's work on ways to solve the problem instead of saying things like White PPL & Fear.

>it is not an assumption. white ppl collectively r at an >advantage.
>But u don't have to take my word for it (c) Reading Rainbow Host
>they're plenty of books u can read. try some preliminary >googling: "white privelege"
>it doesn't matter that one of u has to eat out of a garbage >can. compare the numbers of blk ppl who do this to white.

I agree, but since it is a socio-economical issue, it should be addressed as such and not on an ethnic basis.

>and it's not as simple as that either, we are talking about the >psychological destruction of a ppl, not just giving them a lot >of hard work to do. we are talking about lynchings, have u seen >the pictures? what ppl seem to forget is that lynchings didn't >happen that long ago. The smiling little white kids who used to >go w/ their parents to watch this barbarism are still here as >are those who spat on and attacked ppl during integration, >bussing etc. and they're not all members of the KKK. so even if >u don't want to look at slavery, there's plenty to look @ after >the period.

I agree with this too. Still, I think while black people do have a justifiable means to be angry/leary of whites, grouping them all into a group and saying stuff like some of these posts is wrong. Opinions should be formed on an individual case basis, if we don't do that, then we are spreading propaghanda much like the media which we are all leary of. It would be like saying muslims this, or hispanics that. You can't box people in like that.

>white collective consciousness is one rooted in fear ( i posit) >if u have a better explanation for the behavior put it out >there.

Once again, I don't share in any collective consciousness with anyone else just because I am white. I'm really not scared of too much of anything to be honest with you, mostly because of my spiritual beliefs. So when you say white people are born fearing stuff, it makes me wonder where you get it from. I think honestly it comes from a serious us vs. them mentality, and while I really don't agree with much of it, it may be competitiveness.

>1st things 1st, ppl have to understand that a problem exists at >all. they have to find out what it stems from and deal w/ it >there.

I agree completely, but don't make it a race issue. Saying things like these are issues that the blck community has to deal with and things like that is fine. Those are issues. Speculating that white collective consciousness is based on fear and that white people feel guilty is not an issue that will improve anything for anyone.

>an evolution of what (hip-hop)?
>where exactly does hip hop fit in?

Hip-hop fits in because it is an effective means of communication to large masses of people, it conveys feelings of the culture. It is also a way to address political/social issues. Dude, you know how great I think it would be to have someone like the dude from Dead Prez or maybe Mos Def as an elected official, someone with a vision?

>i _know_ u r not seriously asking this question. u don't know >what happened to them and Lumumba and Walter Rodney and Cheik >Anta Diop for that matter?

This was a rhetorical question. I know what happened to them. Just seems as of lately, there haven't been too many that have had much coverage, who are getting the message out there and exacting change.

>what exactly has he (Farakhan)said that makes u _personally_ think he >has "racist overtones"? what are those (racist overtones) >exactly?

I recall him saying something derogatory about jews or something some years back and congress was all up in arms over it. Also, being white, and referred to as the devil doesn't help. Just seems he is kind of a seperatist as opposed to having white/black culture meshed together harmoniously. I don't mean to downplay the guy, cause like I said before, he does speak a lot of truth.

Yimhotep

u know what eric? my main concern isn't about getting the whole world to get along. have u guessed that? yep, it's true! i don't give a flying flip about the whole world getting along b/c i have more pressing issues. u c, i have to take it one step @ a time. see my last response to Qoolskip - organ analogy. in fact i don't even care if white ppl understand that they have a collective consciousness. if u don't want to, that's fine, my job is not to change the minds/hearts of white ppl. my job is to do whatever i can to return black ppl to their rightful place in the world. my job is to do what i can to reverse the devastating effects of the wrongs that were done to us, whether or not we took part in it. b/c i have responsibilty to those who came b4 me and who came after me. i can't be concerned w/ just myself and carving out my little place in heaven.

blk ppl are in no position to make any proper contribution to the world unless we get ourselves together. this includes (as i c it):

1. understanding that there is such a thing as a collective consciousness. and what part it plays in the behavior of a ppl regardless of their geographic location.

2. understanding that we having been taking part in a system based on a coll. consc. (that's a long term to keep typing out) not our own. in fact in many ways this coll. consc. is quite opposed.

3. understanding that Our coll. consc. is the BEST for us.

4. returning to our former selves through an emphasis on spirituality by examining the systems of those With Knowledge and incorporating it into our everyday lives. in doing so, seeing the unity among all the systems ensure that the age-old tricks of divide and conquer never take part in the destruction of black civilization again.

5. using this spiritual basis (Maat) for economic, social, educational and every other -al, empowerment.

now if this forum can be used for anything it is for white ppl to gain a better understanding of black ppl. y not the other way around? b/c we're immersed in your culture everyday, we know u, very well. and this puts u in a unique position to either use that knowledge when u assume your positions of power to build up or destroy. what would be absolutely wonderful is if ppl like u when u run america make laws that don't continue the exploitation of developing countries, that don't continue the oppression of brown and black-skinned ppl in your country.

if u can understand the way ppl feel by listening to hip-hop, that would be great. b/c i won't count on M2 and Sticman running this country, but u can. so if their msg can influence the way u run the country, well glory be to that. that in my opinion is "breaking barriers", not "doing graf" and "hanging out" together.

however if ppl are so busy trying to say "not me! not me! i don't do that!" (a la jeflee in his little soliloquy) i won't hold my breath.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

there is no "white" or Black? What then will your life mission be?

Yimhotep
that's like asking a teacher "what if there were no students?", a doctor "what if there were no disease?" this isn't the case, so what's the relevance of the question? altho' by the same token i could ask u:
who would u be killing?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Please dont give me this racial separatist crap. When the racial separitist war goes on, tell me how the leader of the aryan resistince is doing, since yall would be on the same side.
oh, and how does hip-hop not have blacks and whites coming together learning more about each other, so things can get better b/w the two?

Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

Yimhotep
The killing was a joke, and those who should know, know what the joke is. Now breathe, long on the exhale...
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

hahaha...answer my question


Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

Kemetion, I give up. Talking to you is like screaming at a wall. I don't think we will ever see eye-2-eye on this. I am more for racial unity, and you seem to be more of a seperationist. That's fine if that is your point of view, It would do me no good to try to change it.

Yimhotep:

we don't have to see eye-to-eye on it. that's ok. i don't have to agree w/ u, u don't have to agree w/ me. we both got our points out there. how do u interpret my wanting to take care of my Self (being my ppl since i am b/c We are) first as being a separationist?

i said i have to take it one step at a time.

u know the saying if u don't love yourself u can't love anyone else? my primary concern can't be world unity when there is no unity in my own community. what kind of sense is that?
i mean where i come from charity begins at home. it starts from the inner to the outer, bettering one's self so one can be in the position to better one's family, then one's community and so on. i don't see that this is such a hard concept to grasp, nor do i see it as being racist, separatist or any other -ist that ppl would like to use. i guess i don't understand the strong opposition to the suggestion.

but if it's not in everyone's best interest for black ppl to take care and do better for themselves first (Speak, Do, Think Maat), so be it.


>Kemetion, I give up. Talking
>to you is like screaming
>at a wall. I
>don't think we will ever
>see eye-2-eye on this.
>I am more for racial
>unity, and you seem to
>be more of a seperationist.
> That's fine if that
> is your point of
>view, It would do me
>no good to try to
>change it.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Well, that may be so, and that does sound like a noble cause. However, posting stuff like WHITE PPL & FEAR and this WHITE GUILT stuff and analyzing white people doesn't really seem to have much to do with any of what you say you are trying to do.

HAHAHAHHAHAH

Actually it does.

As people who are oppressed by a system with people in it, it is important for people of color to 1) demystify white people and white power... look into it, probe it, understand it, and transcend it.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
But you know, you are hurt by being white
just we much as we are hurt by being non-white in this system.
The difference is that you are unwilling
to face how you are hurt by the system in lieu of
accepting your unearned privileges.
And We, well, we ain't got time to waste.

Sorry if you feel nekkid, discriminated against, etc. However, it is YOU that needs to change HIS mind. Learn how to listen and not debate, how to dialogue and not attempt to bash people over the head with I am RIGHT and YOU ARE WRONG and YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE and I AM RIGHT BECAUSE. Much better to explain yourself. Much better to share.

*steps back*

But that is up to you.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Well, I don't really see any of this as a hostile thing, much more of a discussion, and it is an interesting one.
I'm a little confused by this though: "it is YOU that needs to change HIS mind. Learn how to listen and not debate, how to dialogue and not attempt to bash people over the head with I am RIGHT and YOU ARE WRONG and YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE and I AM RIGHT BECAUSE. Much better to explain yourself. Much better to share. "
Have you not read any of the previous posts??? I don't feel I have bashed anyone over the head, if I have, I do apologize. I do realize my perception of the way the world is are much different than yours or any people of color. I'm just trying to understand why grouping all white people into a group and saying that their whole collective conscious is based on fear, or they all feel guilty because of slavery seems like a good idea to anyone. I do agree that this is predominately the case (two posts in question) with upper class persons who are predominately white, but I don't feel it is a general thing. I don't feel "nekkid, discriminated against, etc", and as far as only listening, then I would suppose I might as well just stay off these boards. Likewise though, if you don't want your views questioned/discussed, you shouldn't put it out there. Mainly, I just don't understand how "for black ppl to take care and do better for themselves first (Speak, Do, Think Maat)" has anything to do with these posts. I do understand what you are saying about "demystify white people and white power... look into it, probe it, understand it, and transcend it." as this would be important. But to assume all white people are in a position of power is erroneous. Just as it would be to assume that all black people are in a postion of poverty.

>Well, I don't really see any
>of this as a hostile
>thing, much more of a
>discussion, and it is an
>interesting one.
>I'm a little confused by this
>though: "it is YOU that
>needs to change HIS mind.
>Learn how to listen and
>not debate, how to dialogue
>and not attempt to bash
>people over the head with
>I am RIGHT and YOU
>ARE WRONG and YOU ARE
>WRONG BECAUSE and I AM
>RIGHT BECAUSE. Much better to
>explain yourself. Much better to
>share. "
>Have you not read any of
>the previous posts??? I
>don't feel I have bashed
>anyone over the head, if
>I have, I do apologize.
> I do realize my
>perception of the way the
>world is are much different
>than yours or any people
>of color. I'm just
>trying to understand why grouping
>all white people into a
>group and saying that their
>whole collective conscious is based
>on fear, or they all
>feel guilty because of slavery
>seems like a good idea
>to anyone. I do
>agree that this is predominately
>the case (two posts in
>question) with upper class persons
>who are predominately white, but
>I don't feel it is
>a general thing. I
>don't feel "nekkid, discriminated against,
>etc", and as far as
>only listening, then I would
>suppose I might as well
>just stay off these boards.
> Likewise though, if you
>don't want your views questioned/discussed,
>you shouldn't put it out
>there. But to assume
>all white people are in
>a position of power is
>erroneous. Just as it
>would be to assume that
>all black people are in
>a postion of poverty.

We look at white people collectively because, for all of their talk about being "individuals" they act as a collective.

What Marimba Ani, in her tome _Yurugu_ refers to this as is rhetorical ethic, which is, basically, when people (to be general as some people of color have absorbed Eurocentric/Euro-American culture) say one thing and does another.

So, white people are fond of saying that they are individuals.
But then you have things like... say.. pop music... or trends... or a theme that traces through a period of literature or music... and this, which are all non-negative, speaks to a larger collective.

Or, we could talk about how white people have been known to say and act as if they are down... until the moment to prove that comes and they show who they really are (and this is called a transubstantive error, again, from La Ani).

White is a culture, Darling. So much of being socialized, as a white people, is being blinded to recognizing _how_ it is a culture, know what I mean? People are just people, just individuals, right? But how does that explain the polls y'all take? *shrugs* One of the methods through which y'all are blinded is through the ideology of "universalism". Basically, universalism is where one assumes that everyone is just like her and applies to the same culture (language, morals, values, ways of doing and being and thinking) as they do. This is different from a generalization in that a generalization is just saying something like... the sky is always blue knowing that it is sometimes cloudy. Universalism is saying, I think the sky is blue and everyone thinks the sky is blue because it is blue and everyone knows that it is blue. In that statement, one has attributed her thinking pattern and culture onto everyone without so much as a by-your-leave.

>Mainly, I just
>don't understand how "for black
>ppl to take care and
>do better for themselves first
>(Speak, Do, Think Maat)" has
>anything to do with these
>posts. I do understand
>what you are saying about
>"demystify white people and white
>power... look into it, probe
>it, understand it, and transcend
>it." as this would be
>important.

If you understand what I said, then you understand what kemetian said because they are saying, basically, the same thing, only I am trying to walk a line and she, rightfully so, is refusing to do so. In fact, it is not any of our places to instruct y'all as to how you think, how you behave, etc. However, I cannot combine that with my knowing that y'all ARE blind to that kind of thing. So while I am nation-building on my own levels and fighting my battles on that field, I am also trying to educate y'all as best I can without compromising myself too much to do so which is not an easy line to walk.


All white people do have power... or privilege. It isn't erroneous to say that as I come against this power on a daily basis.

And poverty, like power, I guess, comes in many different ways, in many differing forms.

Peace and keep walking your journey, k? but don't quit because you are gonna get hot sometimes, but you are going to learn so much.

Q

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Yimhotep

> I do realize my
>perception of the way the
>world is are much different
>than yours or any people
>of color. I'm just
>trying to understand why grouping
>all white people into a
>group and saying that their
>whole collective conscious is based
>on fear, or they all
>feel guilty because of slavery
>seems like a good idea
>to anyone.

what do u mean "seems like a good idea?" it's not about a good idea or a bad idea. Harriet Tubman's many trips didn't seem like a "good idea." u c i'm not coming from that place where i'm thinking about the kid in Idaho and how he might interpret this, i don't care if he wants to hate black ppl and hip hop more. to do that
is
FEAR.
i can't base my actions off of that,
"well, does this seem like a good idea to Tom, Dick and Harry? (Read: White ppl)
if so: do it,
if not: don't."

do u c the kind of thinking i'm trying to get away from? it's the kind of thinking that shouldn't enter your mind either eric. u don't want to act out of fear and u shouldn't want to encourage anyone else to either.

Every single one of the missions i outlined has everything to do w/ these posts, granted this was supposed to be funny in the beginning, i just knew it wasn't going to get anymore than 5 posts, all w/ titles: LOL. alas, as msgs often do, it has metamorphasized into something more.

black ppl need to understand that they have a coll. consc. that is diff. from what they r experiencing b4 they can transcend their probs. i don't know how else to put it. i'm out of analogies. i mean i was working w/ Qoolskip but he done skipped out on a Kemetian.

there's no doubt about it. Baba Djehuti Q. is a better man than i, he has more patience than i. maybe he gets extra blessings. (BTW Q, the inbox msg was sent b4 i saw any mention of me in your replies) but me personally, i'll have less stress than i would otherwise.

u know Frederisco i can work w/ but really, if ppl can't start w/ a basic acknowledgement, then u'll always be able to point the finger elsewhere and absolve yourself. that's like me saying i have nothing to do w/ the bombings in Afghanistan. i mean how can i not feel guilty for what is taking place? that's my tax money killing those ppl. i benefit from low gas prices, how can i absolve myself from ppl's oppression? that's the difference, i don't run away from it. i accept my responsibility and do my part to counter it until i can remove myself from this place permanently, until i can use my brain power to fuel the economy of a non-oppressive society. u know i have yet to hear a single African (from/on the continent) tell me crap about "why should i feel guilty? it was my ancestors, i didn't have anything to do w/ it. it was the Hausa, the Ibo, the Akan, not me" when it comes to slavery and Our role? maybe that's just my personal experience tho'.

also, here's a tip: don't take everything so literally.

look @ this:
>Just as it
>would be to assume that
>all black people are in
>a postion of poverty.

dude i don't care if u r scraping the bottom of an empty garbage can to eat, if u know who u r, i mean truly KNOW yourself u r richer than any black dude in a lex, w/ $10k on his wrist thinking he has absolutely zip to do with Africa.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

I agree with you for the most part, maybe I just don't understand this whole privelege thing and the different levels of poverty. I know you don't worry about what enters the minds of white people. All I was saying was that you shouldn't refrain from saying things out of fear of what other people think, but much like you did in the post here that I am replying to, relate it so that it is relevant and people can understand where you are coming from. That's going to help black, white, whatever people understand each other maybe a little better. I know what mission you are telling me you are on, and it sounds like a good one, but everything you do has consequences, and what I am sayin is that depending on how you complete those goals, the consequences/side effects can be postive, or they can be negative. BTW, I do appreciate the time and patience you guys have put into this.

Maybe not anything to have with patience, because I am pretty impatient myself, but I keep seeing something and keep trying to make sure I answer that, too...

I dunno, Kemetian. Have you ever read _The Spirit of Intimacy_ by Sobonfu Some? In it, she talks about what Westerns call "gay" people and they call in her villiage gatekeepers. I remember reading that and suddenly, another frame was put in place. I have always been in touch with energies and places I did not understand, ever since I was a child. I will stop there because I don't want anyone to think I'm a kook, but I think I do have my head and feet in other places and see things that aren't as readily obvious.

You know... given enough time... white culture, as it is, unaided, will destroy itself. It is written in the asili, utamaroho, utamawazo. They will destroy themselves... and destroy this planet we live on. And they will leave (and hopefully be eaten by aliens who don't have space technology and think they are tasty...)and it will be up to us to rebuild this. I keep seeing a lot of death and destruction... and I have no idea when it will be, "where" I am seeing it in time, but I see it.

Without the balance of the cultures, the wisdoms, the spiritualities of color, that is the destiny they are going to forfill.

Just a little horribly sober thought.

Peace,

Q
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

Stop screaming then.
and formulate your questions more clearly.

It's a figure of speech. Don't think I let any of these people upset me.

Yimhotep
which question is that?
& what "black separatist crap" r u referring to?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Your common question is how hip-hop unites blacks and whites. Since you seem to ask this so much, maybe then you are well versed in how it doesnt. Maybe you didnt understand that when I asked HOW DOES HIP-HOP KEEP BLACKS AND WHITES FROM LEARNING ABOUT EACH OTHER AND MAKE THINGS BETTER? And the separatist crap was when you were responding to hotthyng and you said something about who'd you be killing, you then you told me it was a joke or something. I thought you could have been talking about separatism or whatever, but I guess you werent serious with the whole killing thing.


Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

Yimhotep

>Your common question is how hip-hop
>unites blacks and whites.


Actually my question is how it is "breaking barriers." there's no doubt it brings ppl together, we're here aren't we? but have any "barriers" been "broken" is the question.

>Since you seem to ask
>this so much, maybe then
>you are well versed in
>how it doesnt. Maybe
>you didnt understand that when
>I asked HOW DOES HIP-HOP
>KEEP BLACKS AND WHITES FROM
>LEARNING ABOUT EACH OTHER AND
>MAKE THINGS BETTER?

Uh, that's not quite right. just b/c i ask _how_ it does something, doesn't mean i'm saying it's _preventing_ it from doing something. i would like to know how. but i explained what i thought "breaking barriers" meant. "breaking barriers" means for me anyway, a long-term effect, more far-reaching than painting pictures together and hanging out together. what do u do when u hang out? how will this affect our relations on a large scale? or is it for the moment? u said no. Sunday brought up some ppl in an Asian country of different classes who don't necessarily get along being able to dance together @ a hip-hop club. while this is all well and good, if after they leave the club they still don't get along (on a larger scale) then have any "barriers" really been "broken?"

and what makes hip-hop any different (in this respect) from any other black-started popular music of a particular time?

>And
>the separatist crap was when
>you were responding to hotthyng
>and you said something about
>who'd you be killing, you
>then you told me it
>was a joke or something.
> I thought you could
>have been talking about separatism
>or whatever, but I guess
>you werent serious with the
>whole killing thing.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

>Actually my question is how it
>is "breaking barriers." there's no
>doubt it brings ppl together,
>we're here aren't we? but
>have any "barriers" been "broken"
>is the question.

>
>Uh, that's not quite right. just
>b/c i ask _how_ it
>does something, doesn't mean i'm
>saying it's _preventing_ it from
>doing something. i would like
>to know how. but i
>explained what i thought "breaking
>barriers" meant. "breaking barriers" means
>for me anyway, a long-term
>effect, more far-reaching than painting
>pictures together and hanging out
>together. what do u do
>when u hang out? how
>will this affect our relations
>on a large scale?
Like you said before, you need to act within yourself(this is something I have done for myself), then move in your own community, etc., etc. Moving, inward then outward. Right? Then this will have affect, on relations b/w blacks, whites, asians, etc. Growing together, learning about each other, seeing what can be done, then taking that one step at a time. As we find out more and more what exactly it is that needs to be done to break down these barriers. And no, I dont just "hang out" "paint pictures" w/ these ppl.
or
>is it for the moment?
>u said no. Sunday brought
>up some ppl in an
>Asian country of different classes
>who don't necessarily get along
>being able to dance together
>@ a hip-hop club. while
>this is all well and
>good, if after they leave
>the club they still don't
>get along (on a larger
>scale) then have any "barriers"
>really been "broken?"
Why do you ask me this? But no, no barriers have been broken.
Obviously not, if they still do not get along. This is a problem they need to fix on their own. But I look at your words and see "if" So the question is somewhat irrelevant b/c you do not know if this actually happens(tension still existing)

>and what makes hip-hop any different
>(in this respect) from any
>other black-started popular music of
>a particular time?
There is more of an acceptance of this. I know my parents were probably scared somewhat to see me and my brothers get into this music deemed "black music" It has been seen over the time as truly a black art form, whereas in the past music such as jazz, rock, blues, dixie and the like had been stolen by greedy whites, and made into their own thing, claiming they were the inventors of such a thing. Not to mention, in these days blacks were still not even seen as being real humans. But, things have changed, things have not. So, unfortunatly there are still scared people out there. Who dont know what to think of this art form called hip-hop. So, a white kid in the 1920's listening to a jazz record, and wanting to play jazz, and meet the blacks who made this jazz, would not be taken lightly by the parents of this kid. My parents (mainly mom) has engouraged me to go ahead with my graf, poetry, and bboying as something to do for my life.

You can dream a little dream or you can live a litte dream-I'd rather live, cuz dreamers always chase but never get it-Aesop Rock

Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

Yimhotep

>It has been seen over
>the time as truly a
>black art form,

Again how is this diff. from any of the others that u've described? ppl recognize the ones u described as such (a black art form) now. i would guess it's the global influence that's the differentiating factor. that kids in Japan are dressing and wearing their hair to emulate blacks in hip hop despite the fact that they don't even speak the language, i think speaks volumes. i'm guessing that this wasn't the case w/ the other art forms. that is not to say that there are no japanese ppl doing the others, but i don't know that they were wearing zoot suits during the time that they were popular w/ blacks, u know what i mean?

>whereas in
>the past music such as
>jazz, rock, blues, dixie and
>the like had been stolen
>by greedy whites, and made
>into their own thing, claiming
>they were the inventors of
>such a thing. Not
>to mention, in these days
>blacks were still not even
>seen as being real humans.

and i'm not sure about blacks not being seen as humans during the times of jazz, blues and dixie.

and if blacks aren't the ones controlling the making and distribution of hip hop music whereas they were in the beginning, hasn't it already been stolen by as u say, "greedy whites?" and remember hip hop, tho' 20, is still fairly young so let's wait and c how it turns out, yeah? as far as ppl claiming it and all. i have to get to this tho', remind me.

>My parents (mainly mom) has engouraged
>me to go ahead with
>my graf, poetry, and bboying
>as something to do for
>my life.

oh to be white!

u said something about using the word "if" meaning i'm not sure so that makes the question irrelevant. that's no tquite right, that would mean any time a person uses the word if b4 a question, the question is irrelevant.

also, u said something about why i ask u this. it isn't directed towards u specifically, just anyone who subscribes to the idea of "hip hop breaking down bariers" but u have been engaging in this discusion w/me so it would b natural that i would direct the question towards u.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

I am done discussing anything with you. I don't know how the hell to respond to anything you just posted towards me, as it makes no sense to me. I guess Im just some ignorant, uneducated white fool. Go ahead and tease and call me a quitter, I dont care. Id rather have conversations with people who dont say such things as "oh to be white" when it has no relevance to anything. You know, when engaging in discussions with other different from yourself, or rather non-self, you are supposed to learn things, I hope I've learned things from (I know I did with cued) you, b/c as of now, I really don't know, I guess I'll have to think about that, huh? Bye, bye. Have a nice life, and may God bless you.

Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

Whats your favortie dish? Im not gonna
cook it but Ill order it from
Zanzabars!!-Jack Black

Chris-Dad whats the blow hole for?
Peter-Well Ill tell you what its not
for-its why im not allowed at sea
world anymore.

Yimhotep
Ok, Ok, I get the point, God! I need to be concentrating on my school work. Read u loud and clear!!
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Who said anything about killing anyone?

Yimhotep
>Who said anything about killing anyone?
>
Come, come now, HotThyng, don't be coy. Everyone knows that u condone the killing of "whitey." u've screamed it enough times.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

i wish that people would finally look past this skin color shit and realize that we are being distracted to whats really going on. we are being pitched against eachother, and are killing eachother off, arguing points that really arent important. yes, slavery was terrible, and im sorry that it happened. i have no doubt that some of my relatives did own slaves, but they were wrong. these points, they are important to an extent, but it comes down to the fact that we all need to drop this racism shit, and unify, against those who are oppressing us. everyone is being oppressed. by the rich, by the white, by the police, ect. i joke everyday about "those damn crackers", and i do have white skin. ive been around "rednecks" that say that not all blacks are "niggers", that the confederate flag isnt about hatred, ect. unfortunately, they still continue to stereotype themselves and others. if only people would realize that the paths weve been given are false; that tv is bullshit, that meat is killing them, and that there is more to all of this. people are just afraid...im afraid, i admit it. crazy shit going on! bombs are being dropped on the other side of the world and all these people care about is that their game might be delayed or the president might speak and theyll miss something. what the fuck is that?! people spening mad flow on a single dinner while some dude in africa is eating his own shit. sorry for my vulgar language, but this is how i communicate..

WHITE GUILT SUCKS!!!!!!!

I get tired of these silly ass fools that play right into the victim mentality along with every other stupid ass black person that believes every word that comes out of a race pimp's mouth.

Ones typical of white guilt are the Naderbots and the Chomskyites.....when they start yelling the same things over and over (ex. "500,000 dead Iraqi children, multiculturalism, human rights, global warming, etc) you better watch out. The robots are coming.

I dont need their guilt and handouts. Nor do I want an apology. Just leave me the fuck alone.
_________

And now it's time for conversations with Expert...

Expert: blah
badazzgirl: blah squared.
Expert: blah infinity squared...times pie
badazzgirl: that's "PI"
Expert: No, I mean "pie"....I'm hungry.
Expert: I want a strawberry one.
badazzgirl: Don't have pie...but I've some of the People's Strudel.
Expert: blah
Expert: Strudel's suck.
badazzgirl: you've never had the Rock's strudel.
badazzgirl: so you can't say all strudels suck
Expert: Fugga Rock...and his strudel.
badazzgirl: I would like to....REALLY...
Expert: You'd fuck a strudel? Ewl.
badazzgirl: Not a strudel....THE ROCK
Expert: blah. that's just as bad.

America is a confused country

*sitting back, smiling, in spain*

Even though Europe is the homeland of these &*!@ at least Continental Europeans aren't this pitiful!

Damn Americans...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot

YOU'RE RACIST!!!!

how do you figure that?

ThuŠŠP@k€ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

guilt n 1: the state of having committed an offense 2: remorse cause by feeling responsible for some offence conscience, guilt feelings, guilt trip]

Maya Angelou was once quoted that Black people still have moral authority (magazine article) and I wondered what that meant. I assumed it had a lot to do with what some older Black adults talked about at home and in the community about "white" people. My grandmother and father used to come home work livid about some "white" person who patronized them out of their guilt. I asked my Pops what they were guilty of and he said guilty of a higher status because of their race (priviledge) of keeping Black people down. Priviledge seemed to be something white people should be ashamed of.

When I was little, growing up down south, I learned that Black folks had a place in the social scheme. As long as we stayed in our place then the white folks (in power) would leave us alone. This was something we kept secret from white people. I learned that white priviledge was offensive to many Black people and later I learned about the "white man's burden". This burden had to do with fighting to maintain the status quo and the psychological effects of it...one effect was guilt.

"White guilt" refers to the guilt that whites, particularly white liberals, feel about the West domination and oppression of people of color (supremacy). "Proponents of white guilt explain that while whites may not necessarily be racist on an individual level, they live in a racist society that automatically grants them certain advantages at the expense of other people."

"A number of whites have questioned whether they should feel guilty about racial discrimination solely because of their skin color. They note that not only should they as individuals not be blamed for racism but that even as a group, many whites are not that much better off than their black brethren...some whites' repudiation of white guilt comes off as awkward, defensive, and overly dramatic. For example, French-Canadian journalist
Donna Laframboise makes the point that minorities can be racist, which is undoubtedly true. The examples she uses to illustrate her
statement, though, are less than convincing. She describes a visit to Japan and Korea, for instance, during which the locals, considering her something of a novelty, stared at her, touched her skin and hair, and asked to take her picture. As uncomfortable as these experiences may have made her feel, they can't be equated with being called a racist name by the occupants of a passing car or being denied a job or promotion on account of one's skin color.

It's also worth mentioning that much of the racism exhibited by non-white groups is directed not at whites but at other minorities." (http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/emily7.html)

Listening to my elders I used to feel that they were somehow comforted by the fact that white people were somehow in the wrong just by condoning the actions of those in power and helping to maintain the status quo. As long as Black people and other people of color are on the other end of the stick it seems right for them to exempt themselves from the actions of the priviledged (moral authority). I am reminded of this when I read the threads from this past week on fear and guilt.

This so-called exemption from the affair of those is power is an illusion, just as the position of white priviledge is an illusion. This illusions are slowly falling apart but until they are totoally gone we will continue to play this game.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

SAY WORD! (Raising fist in the air.)

...in agreement

And yet, you benefit from it. "





BZZZZT wrong.


No everything I have done my parents have worked for. My mom was a immigrant from Italy and my dad had to work in the service to get what he has. IN fact mofo my dad was working under a black general what is that? There goes your theory out the window "Whoooooooooo splat " He didnt care and he got respect from everybody. ANYONE could have done what my family did.
My dad worked for what he has like anyone. So how dare you even say I benefit from it. I benefit because my dad worked hard in the military and fireman and special forces. But your ignorant tone overtakes what you are trying to get across. Which is not surprise to me on the net.



>Thats a very good excuse
>and not even your 30
>page verbose techorama explanation or
>your cryptic interview to yourself
>can argue that.
>
>I can sum up my thesis
>
>
>Slavery happened because of some dumb
>men.

dumb white men (and probably women, too)

>Racism happened because of some dumb
>men.

dumb white men... and women, too

>Thats why it continues to happen.

No, it continues because dumb white men and women, who maybe aren't quite so dumb, when you think about it, like their privilege and sense of superiority... and because it (racism) perpetuates itself and moves into intangible forms which y'all won't believe because y'all don't believe in anything that cannot be touched, prodded, and analyzed.

No wrong Cued. You are being biased as usual with people in this day n age. What is my priviledge? Bring it up with the people who caused this go find them whether dead or living hold a spiritual summons go blast off into space to the ignoramuses who continue to cause it and stop pointing fingers at somebody you dont know. I know theres injustice but people are gonna act like that regardless. I said my piece on it. I continue to say my feelings on it. Can you understand that Chief?

>People like to be dumb.

White people like to be dumb -- in terms of racism.




>But even if I was there
>400 years ago what could
>I say or do "Uh
>I disagree I think these
>foreigners we can learn from
>lets not.."

Why not? There were white people who opposed it.


I would have said it but it wouldnt have changed anything. Thats my point because the mob mentality overthrew the minority say. Anyways cued I wasnt born 400 years ago so naturally I cant say anything. I dont have a fuckin wayback machine Ive said my 2 cents on race relations and masses of people are still on this globe acting ignorant.

>Anyways to be honest with you
>I dont think we are
>truly represented of our colors
>our eyes are completely filtered
>from many colors so to
>say "WHITE" is kind of
>like saying "BLACK"

Who ever said it was really about colors? I tend to think it's about cultural imperalism and hegemony. How about you?

I tend to think its "word of the day" mentality . Todays word is "Cultural imperalism" a scapegoat term which was made by some verbose professor. hurling things toward a "Group" of people you dont even know. Gee that reminds me of something. Wait what could that be. "See documentary footage on what Black rock n roll represents"

"Cultural Imperalism" is that the same imperalism that gives native americans the ability to make billions with casinos and tax free environment? Maybe other shades of people should try that tactic as well make up imaginary tribes which they are part of show a headdress and own a casino. That seems like a priviledge to me to doctor your native american heritage and have a lucrative career. I know the country is unfair sometimes but compared to others? but you have masses of ways to make money if you look around no matter what color. So how is that Imperialistic?

ANSWER:It isnt... anybody can money and live out their dream with the right ideas. If you dont want to make money then go live in the andes. Peru has beautiful mountains didnt you know?



>To be honest I dont truly
>know what color a being
>really is.

Whatever consciousness lives in said being's head.



>Sorry I wont play that game.

Sorry, but you already did.


No I didnt. Theres nothing to be guilty about. Anyone can have what my parents had. My mom was raised in poverty and my dad was too. My mom got racist remarks. Wait what was that sound It was the sound of your defense coming crashing down to the ground. They came up by hard work and determination to be someplace else. So dont even try to reason with your bullshit lectures on where or who you think I am. Because frankly cat you dont know and will never know mmmkay?


>If you have Crystal castles maybe
>but this game is detrimental
>to ones health.

Not yours because you have the privilege to not "play" to not deal and be comfy in the privilege you are benefitting from, no matter where your ancestors were


You have no idea who I am and you are stereotyping me thinking I had it easy. There is no privillege of my skin where I live. In fact anyone can get the same jobs I want.

I dont get diamonds in the mail.

and you have no idea who my ancestors are.

My last name is "HASSEN" think before you speak. You have no idea where my culture is from and you have no idea what my family has gone thru.

You think its all cut n dry but it isnt. As usual a netter jumps the gun. You already have judged and you dont know me.

thus proving my point once more people put up deillusional stereotypes of people. It was nice but thanks for proving my point with your biased commentary on your thinly veiled comments on what race you think I am. Talk to ya later ace.












Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

The achromatic color of maximum lightness; the color of objects that reflect nearly all light of all visible wavelengths; the complement or antagonist of black, the other extreme of the neutral gray series. Although typically a response to maximum stimulation of the retina, the perception of white appears always to depend on contrast.
The white or nearly white part, as:
The albumen of an egg.
The white part of an eyeball.
A blank unprinted area, as of an advertisement.
One that is white or nearly white, as:
whites White trousers or a white outfit of a special nature: tennis whites.
whites The white dress uniform of the U.S. Navy or Coast Guard.
A white wine.
A white pigment.
A white breed, species, or variety of animal.
also White A member of a racial group of people having light skin coloration, especially one of European origin. See Usage Note at black.
Products of a white color, such as flour, salt, and sugar. Often used in the plural.
Games.
The white or light-colored pieces, as in chess.
The player using these pieces.

The outermost ring of an archery target.
A hit in this ring.
whites Pathology. Leukorrhea.
A politically ultraconservative or reactionary person.

adj

Where it says European descent thats on my moms side Im not sure where my father is so if you want to get technical that isnt white.

I have no burden the way I was born and never have.

Stupid people do stupid things. My definition of white isnt my race class. Because I dont know what race I am.
my family tree is lost exactly where my father has come from but with a name like "HASSEN" its not from Switzerlandd or Finland is it?



crowd gets silent)


There is no reason to have any guilt because of who you are.
I see people in a different light and never saw people like that until it was brought up in archive books. But Slavery happened in various times thruout history. Why the focus on this is kind of a sham to me.


Why is it we dont go after the "Egyptians" for enslaving people to build monuments for their GODS? If you wish to travel about with "historical lessons" then do yourself a favor and go back considerably and dont just stop at some European rhetoric.


And why is that we wish to focus on one aspect of slavery from the european tradition? When vast countries have participated in slavery of other tribes of men. OH but but..but... That was a long time ago buts it happened and maybe your family benefited from it in that "AGE"

To be honest and true you have to admit that other races enslaved other races for labor oriented reasons.

But we want to forget about that dont we? Focus on "Whitey"

But I got some arsenal for dat ass...

But the evidence is there. Egyptians Africans enslaved one another based on social classes.


THere was no "Im an egyptian you cant do this to me" crap...

If you watch documentaries you can see the evidence of hundreds of thousands of slaves and you can see how hard they were "Worked" by no choice. The way you can see this is the twisting of their spine from lifting blocks of stone to build Pyramids. Ah yes the skeletal evidence of whipping and overwork. That seems like a lovely act of kindness doesnt it? "brothers among brothers" FACADE.... TOTAl facade


But lets not talk about that lets talk about "Whitey"

The reality is if you want to trace your ancestry it probably goes back to slavery and maybe your great great great great great great grandfather was a maligned diabolical bigot pharoah who looked down on families from "Another region" because they were "Stupid,poor,dirty" Sound familiar? "But hassen thats too far back and YO it never happened" But it did and the evidence is there just like "gasp" Europeans enslaving africans.

But that would be a slap in the face wouldnt it? To have ancestry to "debils" as well? Face reality we all have dark pasts in our ancestry that we will never know about or too scared to talk about or just cover up and spit

bullshit rhetoric all day along like I hear on THE NET CONSTANTLY.

dO YOU know what the truth is?

Darkness encompasses our ancestry in all of us.

THE odds are not in our favor.

Marinate on that....


If you want to talk enslaving and imprisonment BROTHERS and Sisters then study the roots before THEY even came to "AFRIKA"

Enslavement of tribes was common. But we dont want to mention that because then that makes you a hypocrite.

And it would overthrow and cancel out every claim of slavery you made if your family tree was connected to Pharoahs and Queens who enslaved the masses for their monuments. Because then you would be what "hypocrite" thats right join the family come on DOWWWWN. Its hard to swallow you might be CONNECTED to that huh? And your ancestors might have been "priviledged" because your family was not overworked to death because they could make "pottery for the pharoahs" and had a bloodline to royalty.





Sometimes the truth hurts and usually it works out is people pointing a finger are just as guilty as the accused. Im not pointing the finger but I bet this cat Solarus's family tree has alot of rotten apples but he would never mention that because if his side was connected to slavery of tribes of people then what would his lectures be worth of any merit?



And thats just scratching the surface so to even suggest "europeans" are to blame you need to go back a little further and see how other tribes of men treated one another from different regions. Africa was just as racist as any Continent or place back then I bet.

Marinate on that.

Cuz it wasnt just europeans it was Humans but we cant face that. And we never will but if you want to focus on this civilzation be my guest but it is rather propaganizing the Western Culture when the other cultures are just as guilty in the past.











Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.


land or Finland is it?





Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

if it has not been abundantly clear, let me give y'all the heads up.


There is a reason why cats focus on White American brand of slavery,

and hint... it's not 'cause they don't know of or aren't open to slavery elsewehre.

It's because that's the most relevant shit to AMERICANS--particularly black and african americans.



If you can't roll with that, let me give you an example.

I understand racism to be the belief in the concept of race, which I do not.

The vast majority of Americans use more social definitions of racism like power+predjuce, or belief in the dehumanization of a racial group based on impressions of superiority.


They aren't "wrong" Their understanding is just different.

As far as im concerned its "denial" from all parts.

africa wasnt this utopia that militant scholars want to convey that image as. It was far from that. IT had serious maligned issues as well before some euro's stepped on there and people try to "Blind"you with this "whitey came in and messed up paradise"

Give me a fuckin break. That place was just as savage as any NORDIC region in europe. They didnt dance around and sing "Lion King"songs all the day.



What im saying is that part of the world was just as vicious as any other part of humanity. And its making another culture look "saintly" Like "ah I am a innocent man you corrupted the world" But the truth is all tribes of men had that dark savagery to them and africa is in there with all of us. ALL OF US....


So to blame this on Spain or france or America or mars (Who knows)

Its just silly because every tribe of man participated in it. You can see that from the violent dead remains of people.


Whether this continues today or not thats not really the point. Because people will always do stupid actions you cant control. how are you going to stop racism? Raise your fist? It will just create more hate. People are going to continue discriminate if you propel these deillusional theories of european culture being the culprit which is total bullshit. Its part of the problems in society but it goes deeper than that



Id love to hear a plan. I think alot of people come off biased to their "Team" I am not biased I am just telling you enslavement happens on all platforms. I dont give a shit if it isnt relevant to you its relevant in the whole "picture" of things how we evolved this way.

And if you are going to go after "Europe" you better go after the "Dark Continent" and see what secrets it holds.

All races enslaved animals and slayed them for skin and trophies.

Once again Africa is in there with us.

Are we accounted for that? No

We say "thats the way it is" The animals didnt have a choice. They were "Enslaved"


No... like I said its double talk. Single one thing out for your "benefit" but ignore the rest of history. Bullshit Bullshit

You know what I say to that?

People of african descent would probably have a cardiac arrest if they could go back in the wayback machine and see what happened before Europe invaded and took them on a loveboat cruise to the promised land. Because thats hard to take to face up everybodys tribe has dark past as well.

Its Denial of a past I dont deny people from my tree participated in corruption and evil.


It all leads up to a society now.

Keep blaming europe though a friggin country a entire land mass. Stop it...you over intellectuals dilute everything. Stop pretending like you know. Cuz its obvious you dont.


How about blaming a select group of idealists instead of "Europe
"
What a frackin concept.


LOOK Europe had multitude of different ideals so stop fucking saying it was just "this way" because thats total bullshit and that is unfair to the people who had their own " peaceful beliefs" by grouping them together. It casts them in a bad light when their belief system was different and they did nothing to Africans.

Because the fact is Solarus does not know the history of the majority of the europeans nor does anybody else on this damn board and to single them together as thinking this way thats total bullshit too. Its like me stereotyping all Africans were voodoo priests and cannibals. Its the same damn thing. THE ..same ...damn thing


European culture" cats dont even have a fucking clue how many cultures existed in europe that arent in books. Marinate on that

He got it froma book made by some person who wasnt there. Yea I will almost take that all for truth.

Oh it makes perfect logical sense.
More than anyone knows.... .

Stop singling out people who came from europe

YOU dont fucking know their lifestyle




A fraction...of people ....that equaled alot in man power but still what remains is the unheard and unseen divisions of europe that people just walk over how they were like. And thats wack get some balls and admit you generalize Europe too much way tooo much...

Stop soapboxing for something you cant really judge properly since you werent there. YOU were not there.
Those authors WERE not there.


to group europe as a whole is ignorant and its insulting.


Wise up...


























Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

...and stop trying to play the voice of reason. drop the self-righteousness, more informed than thou etc. etc. bullshit. it serves you no purpose.


YOUR QUOTE

"LOOK Europe had multitude of different ideals so stop fucking saying it was just "this way" because thats total bullshit and that is unfair to the people who had their own " peaceful beliefs" by grouping them together. It casts them in a bad light when their belief system was different and they did nothing to Africans."


There is a difference between the sum of all people in Europe, and the ruling class in Europe. Even Columbus was protested throughout Spain, but THE RULING CLASS at large was down.


Don't try to compare Europe to Southern Africa, Western Africa, Saharan Africa, or Indian Ocean Africa, or to the cultures in the North American Continent, Far Far North American region, or the equatorial Americas.


Although many adjacent groups share things in common, most of northern and western Europe, and the exploited African coasts had very distinct cultural archetypes, as were they both distinct from the Americas, or even far east asia.


The foul of different cultures, and the good of different cultures do not exist on the same plane.


Have you ever studied African history? You come off as if you have not, though I do know several African scholars who down the "africa utopia" shit.


Most cultures were more localized, some were feudal, many were aristocracies, some misogenistic, some feministic, many agricultural, some pastoral, etc. etc. etc.


Europe (at large) did crush many African systems of governance and belief. Europe (at large) did take over most of the continent. Europe (at large) destroyed a great deal of Christian sects during their ventures into Africa. Europe (at large) did destabilize the previously existing state of order (which you clearly don't understand to have been a DIFFERENT type of order) by interjecting guns. Europe (at large, Portugal in particular) did bombard by sea, and destroy the bulk of historically wealthy, strong or otherwise important settlements across the southern cape, and eastern cost. Indians, Arabs, and Chinese settled the eastern coast long before, sure, but they integrated, not devastated.

Europeans had slaves (oh shit) Africans had slaves (oh shit) much of the WORLD had slaves once feudalistic, aristocratic, and other "might makes right" social structures developed.

That doesn't make you smart.

That doesn't give you grounds to argue with cats.


The truth is that these "African" bad things you elude to DID NOT DEVASTATE THE WORLD. European invaders did. AND YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT IT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF AFRICANS GOT TO IT FIRST, BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES NO EVIDENCE SUGGEST THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T FUCKING SPECULATE THAT SHIT.


The point is simple. "what ifs" mean shit. "What DIDs" mean the world.

sorry for coming off mad intense. these boards seem to do that to alot of us.

Yimhotep

>sorry for coming off mad intense.
> these boards seem to
>do that to alot of
>us.


hip hop sho is breakin down some barriahs!

sounds like _some_body needs a little Qoolskip love (Jeflee?)

D, u didn't even get into the fact that the "slavery" that exited in europe (slavs) and Africa was markedly different and incomparable to the Maafa that occurred during the triangular trade and after.

u didn't even get into the fact that Egyptians didn't use "slaves" to build monuments to "Gods", i found that part quite funny. those "monuments" were built by _paid_ engineers. i mean u don't even have to look to the "biased" militant scholars for that. i saw that on good ole TLC.

but this is good, vent Jef, i hope everyone pays attention.

BTW do u have an album that has a blue cover and looks like a persons face w/ light shining from the eyes? i swore i saw it in Wherehouse music. i can't recall the title.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

that was interesting


ThuŠŠP@k€ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

I love starting trouble.

<I love starting trouble.>

Even though Solarus deserves the credit.

}> }> }> }> }>

...and stop trying to play the voice of reason. drop the self-righteousness, more informed than thou etc. etc. bullshit. it serves you no purpose.


Im not playing the voice of reason Im telling people to give me a break about the Europe speech. Its done to death. People are stereotyping a place you never lived in at those times. Why should we even put up with a belief that people know what an entire land mass believed? Thats some history text bullshit right there for the soapboxers right there As for the more informed than thou No I am just saying what people continuously overlook.


YOUR QUOTE

"LOOK Europe had multitude of different ideals so stop fucking saying it was just "this way" because thats total bullshit and that is unfair to the people who had their own " peaceful beliefs" by grouping them together. It casts them in a bad light when their belief system was different and they did nothing to Africans."


There is a difference between the sum of all people in Europe, and the ruling class in Europe. Even Columbus was protested throughout Spain, but THE RULING CLASS at large was down.

The Ruling Class was down but how do you know who was against it? I never hear that I just think it was all rigged for an agenda of politics. In fact I believe many people were too absorbed in surviving on their land then worrying if "ABUCAH" was going to help them with their crops and settlements.



Don't try to compare Europe to Southern Africa, Western Africa, Saharan Africa, or Indian Ocean Africa, or to the cultures in the North American Continent, Far Far North American region, or the equatorial Americas.


Although many adjacent groups share things in common, most of northern and western Europe, and the exploited African coasts had very distinct cultural archetypes, as were they both distinct from the Americas, or even far east asia.


The foul of different cultures, and the good of different cultures do not exist on the same plane.


Have you ever studied African history? You come off as if you have not, though I do know several African scholars who down the "africa utopia" shit.


I dont need to study African History to understand territorial/predatorial/aggressive/mean spirited/evil tactics for power. THAT much is clear that was the European Idealists downfall. European Idealists engaged in that but in the same way Radical islams dont represent Islamic faiths then European Idealists dont represent the views of vast european faiths and cultures. This is a major misconception and maybe someday people will get the truth that alot of people did not even know what was going on in the world.
There was alot of Nomads in North America and Europe. The applachian the ozark region ... Maine... Arizona and so forth.

Alot of them got along with the Native americans thats another misconception greatly exagerrated by propaganda masters.



Most cultures were more localized, some were feudal, many were aristocracies, some misogenistic, some feministic, many agricultural, some pastoral, etc. etc. etc.


Europe (at large) did crush many African systems of governance and belief. Europe (at large) did take over most of the continent. Europe (at large) destroyed a great deal of Christian sects during their ventures into Africa. Europe (at large) did destabilize the previously existing state of order (which you clearly don't understand to have been a DIFFERENT type of order) by interjecting guns. Europe (at large, Portugal in particular) did bombard by sea, and destroy the bulk of historically wealthy, strong or otherwise important settlements across the southern cape, and eastern cost. Indians, Arabs, and Chinese settled the eastern coast long before, sure, but they integrated, not devastated.

No it didnt. At large dont act like you know. THATS part of the problem. Some idealists did but to represent a whole continent is ludicrous. And it wasnt at large when you judge the population of a place that really couldnt be estimated back then properly. Those were IDEALISTS not Europe. They were millions/billions ofpeople who had no say in this remember that. REMEMBER ...they were living their life. They didnt have "CNN" They lived in the mountains in the forest. They were scattered everywhere. Alot didnt read alot spoke in different dialects. As I said trying to "survive" like anyone does. Thats how "Militias" thought. They didnt speak for the commoners though and they made this world spin around.

It wasnt all "this is how it is" bullshit. Too generalized

People need to recognize these people did not know the majority of what was happening at the time. You can basically sum that up by seeing how spread out everybody was and the settlers where they settled and how they had their own "tribes" so to speak.

There was no newspaper in the Ozark mountains to demonstrate a point.

They had their own way of life. Their own ideals and their own faiths in religion.

Even if there was in those locales they spoke in dialects.







Europeans had slaves (oh shit) Africans had slaves (oh shit) much of the WORLD had slaves once feudalistic, aristocratic, and other "might makes right" social structures developed.

That doesn't make you smart.

And it doesnt make you smart to tell me what structures involved slavery and that by your view it has no basis. I am saying all parties are guilty. And clearly they are.

That doesn't give you grounds to argue with cats.


It gives me grounds to say what I want to say because I am my own person.


The truth is that these "African" bad things you elude to DID NOT DEVASTATE THE WORLD. European invaders did. AND YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT IT WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF AFRICANS GOT TO IT FIRST, BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES NO EVIDENCE SUGGEST THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T FUCKING SPECULATE THAT SHIT.

Europe did not devastate countries. THAT is what I believe to be the truth European Idealists hurt their way of life and devastated cultures. Those Idealists should be held accounted for but the people who lived in their own isolated life do not deserve to be grouped together. The truth is we have no idea how many corrupt things Africa was involved in. But I gurantee you just like the native americans they had maligned vicious tribes that were looong lost because of their obscure locality. If people keep tainting heritages of people who have nothing to do with it "Grouping" them European when they were their own heritage. We just got lazy and put them alltogether. And it wasnt the "MASSES" of Europe. How do you know this? There isnt no "We want Kuntas enslaved and their continents pillaged" petition. It didnt exist and if it did the "Idealists" would have burned it.


The point is simple. "what ifs" mean shit. "What DIDs" mean the world.


What did happen is European Idealists not the majority of Europeans but people who had "POWER" and "PLANS" but the reality is most europeans were absorbed in providing for their family fighting off famine fighting off diseases fighting depression fighting for their place in the world. They couldnt be wrapped up in "Domination of races" CMON now...

AND by no means did most of these people say "YEA you know what lets go destroy countries" I have never seen that in any books. I see alot "blacked out areas"

No I dont think they thought that way and it would be naive for anybody to do so. And once again the odds are in my favor judging the way European descendants (pick a region) populated themselves in North America and Europe.

As I said there is more to the story then all of Europeans just raised their hands and said How many want to get Kunta and make him work for you? And all of them said :I

What it came down to was Miscommunication.

They werent ignorant they just had a different way of thinking and living. and as I said to group the masses its a Terrible thing. Many are not spoken for and its a complete typical thing for somebody to generalize settlers like that.



















Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

Akwaaba

"Because the fact is Solarus does not know the history of the majority of the europeans nor does anybody else on this damn board and to single them together as thinking this way thats total bullshit too."

Single them how? WTF??!!!

YOU'RE RACIST!!!



SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

European culture"

And europe has thousands of cultures as does America as does Africa as does China as do alot countries.


So to single out Im not saying its racist. Where did you get that idea?

Im saying you are trying to fit everybody into a section. I read that tangent technical jargon to confuse people with dictionary words of the day. Didnt buy it. Thought it was some anti -Look at me I got you soapbox rally for this side of the globe. AFRIKA wa hoo.



And its not working and it will never work to fit people into cultural sections like I side with them. Trying to fit everybody together.

I dont side with anybody. Not with African not with American.

You know why? That shit is played and it gets you nowhere.




You need to stop thinking "America" or "AMERIKKKA" or whatever clever way you want to say it is the problem.

No the problem is not the country but a fraction who reside in it. That fraction equals alot but they dont represent North America not to me anyways. They just are advertising themselves as representation but its false representation


And to say we live on European Ideals still mostly is bullshit.

THEY would not like how we as a society are living.

because my ideal system is different from that also
And if you want to do better my man

you wouldnt represent any FLAG.

RED BLACK GREEN is just as corrupted as Red White and Blue. Dont try to tell me it isnt. Because the odds are in MY favor.

I dont hold by any flag.

And thats part of society.

Is corruption and its a serious complex issue to side with somebody thinking they are all "Righteous"

And no huge essay on Africa and AMerikkka is gonna change that.

I actually found alot what you said to be so generalization of this country.

Its not perfect but its a pretty cool place to live for many.




So lay off on the anti this country.

The people who gave you things and did meanial jobs for you deserve better. The people who take out the trash the people who build houses. The people who built that college so you could spout technical jargon labryinths at people acting like you are right. THEY deserve better.


Slavery happened and it happened because of fear and alleged hate and ignorance.

But in no way does that represent "where I came from" whatever my people are because as I said my heritage is lost or broken off.

and to say we should have guilt no we shouldnt not if he have different heritages and different cultural upbringings.

Give me a break blaming people is not gonna get anything done its just gonna get people more motivated to oppose your side.




Terrence Trent Darby-WildCard Oct 2001

Jef L. Johnson-Hype Factory(2cd new solo!)Oct.

Jef Johnson/SonnyT/MichaelB-October 2001

Tomahawk:
Mike Keneally-Wooden Smoke Oct 2001

Wooten/Chambers-Just add Water Oct 23 2001

Ghostface Killah-Nov 2001

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it drops gonna stay in my sig til now. just check http://www.smartalecmusic.com for now.
One of the best original designed sites out. He is the CEO you know of Smart Alec Music. Bugs Bunny is the Vice Prez and Marvin The martian is in charge of A&R while Yosemite Sam handles the southwest division of Smart Alec. Daffy Duck and Foghorn Leghorn are leaders of the street team. Its a family thang.

Tonex-Oxygen (early 2002! yea I know September has been moved doh

a comment from RhemaK a artist who works with Tonex about Oxygen: I have heard five songs from Tonex's 'Oxygen'album that is going to be coming out next year. The lyrics and that beats are going to take you over the edge and out of your car seat. That is what it did to me. The proof is in the pudding. You will see 2002. 'Oxygen is no joke' "

as usual all hip hop albums subject to change.

Akwaaba

>European culture"
>
>And europe has thousands of cultures
>as does America as does
>Africa as does China as
>do alot countries.

If you are referring to "Interview with Solarus," list here or inbox me the parts that you specifically are referencing, otherwise you are doing nothing but making "generalizations."


>So to single out Im not
>saying its racist. Where did
>you get that idea?

I said "You're racist." White guilt sucks and this post is proof of it. This post was meant to be CHILDISH, FACETIOUS, INSTIGATORY representative of the pitiful, non-contemplative responses by folks in the "White Ppl & Fear" post. Some people got it but the far majority of white folks seemed not to have caught that... Why? Well you decide.

Oh yeah 101 more responses to go til white ppl are PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt to permanently SUCK! :-O

>Im saying you are trying to
>fit everybody into a section.
>I read that tangent technical
>jargon to confuse people with
>dictionary words of the day.
>Didnt buy it. Thought it
>was some anti -Look at
>me I got you soapbox
>rally for this side of
>the globe. AFRIKA wa hoo.

The post was written to UN-confuse everyone and take a serious look on what people call "culture" (it worked for some but of course not all). It included an explanation of the "technical jargon" surrounding "culture" theories to provide tools (concepts) that would enable us to better and more clearly conceptualize ideas and information.

ALso okps keep asking me personally about the whole "Afrika" concept and I felt it necessary to explain it in that manner, especially since okps seem intent on putting words in my mouth. And I can't forget the fact that much of these okps don't have an in-depth understanding of "culture" and proceed to SPEAK before KNOWING...

Sad.

>And its not working and it
>will never work to fit
>people into cultural sections like
>I side with them. Trying
>to fit everybody together.
>
>I dont side with anybody. Not
>with African not with American.


This ain't about siding with anyone...

>You need to stop thinking "America"
>or "AMERIKKKA" or whatever clever
>way you want to say
>it is the problem.

You need to start SPEAKING before KNOWING.

>
>No the problem is not the
>country but a fraction who
>reside in it. That fraction
>equals alot but they dont
>represent North America not to
>me anyways. They just are
>advertising themselves as representation but
>its false representation

No comment.

>
>
>And to say we live on
>European Ideals still mostly is
>bullshit.
>

Read "Interview with Solarus" to see why this statement is BS.


>THEY would not like how we
>as a society are living.

Apparently you did not read the post (Interview with Solarus) that you criticized with understanding. REad it again before ever responding to me on this topic.

Don't think you can just talk about "culture" without doing an in-depth study on it.

And don't think that I believe in any such thing as "black & white," NOTHING is that simple.

Oh yeah,

YOU'RE RACIST!!!

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

>This post was meant to be CHILDISH, FACETIOUS, INSTIGATORY >representative of the pitiful, non-contemplative responses by >folks in the "White Ppl & Fear" post. Some people got it but >the far majority of white folks seemed not to have caught >that... Why? Well you decide.

>Oh yeah 101 more responses to go til white ppl are PROVEN >beyond a shadow of a doubt to permanently SUCK! :-O

So basically, this whole post was a COMPLETE MINDFUCK. Thanks, I assumed that maybe we were exchanging ideals in an attempt to better understand each other and educate each other. Guess I was wrong.

Akwaaba

"Thanks, I assumed that maybe we were exchanging ideals in an attempt to better understand each other and educate each other. Guess I was wrong."

But the initial post neither signifies or invites that. Looking at the tone of some of the posters, I'd say that "better understanding each other" is not representative of their intent for posting either.

Hey but you can learn a life lesson by looking at a dog shit so whatever...


SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

I think kemetian touched on this... and I know Solarus and I ponder it a while back but to no avail, but slavery is a loaded word.

All systems that dealt in slavery were not the same. They were not all "chattel" slavery. As Americans, slavery is a word with strict connotations. It doesn't mean we are afraid to look at that because it has been looked at. People, including myself, have researched it, found out, what this meant, largely because of white folks like you who believe, erroneously, that all systems are the same and that what is here is there.

I dunno, all this universalism. Honestly, we should look at this post because this is, to a large extent, what we are up against -- fighting against this.

But then again... nevermind.

Just... you need to find out more about those systems of slavery beside they had something that is called slavery. There is no need to be ignorant.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

...of chattel slavery but also the psychological effects of chattel slavery for Africans and whites need to be learned, including in contemporary societies. Europeans and Americans (colonists) engaged in the chattel slavery of Africans. It was the institution that made America a global power. "White guilt" as a psychological phenomenon is a bi-product of chattel slavery in Europe and the Americas...many see slavery as a necessary evil.

Another psychological effect of chattel slavery on Black & African people is the idea that the system (and whites) exist to oppress, dominate and destroy us...and that Black Americans are forever lost.

There is a time for generalizing and a time for an honest look at a time period that affects us all today whether we are in America or Africa or Europe.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

Yimhotep
I now pronounce you Mama Djehuti 'Trice. *bowing in deference*
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

it depends on circumstances, and whether you are the enslaver or the enslaved.

"The peculiar institution of chattel slavery in America was fueled by the kidnapping and importation of Africans to the United States. Aside from the violation of human rights and civil atrocities akin to modern-day war crimes, slavery's victims were robbed of all wealth and worldly possessions, inheritances, and real estate. African-Americans have lost literally millennia of acquired family fortune and social standing earned by countless generations of civilized existence in Africa. It is the economic disenfranchisement and continued social and economic oppression of African-American descendants of slaves that has had the most lasting effect."

http://www.nilevalley.net/history/chattle_slavery.html

>it depends on circumstances, and whether
>you are the enslaver or
>the enslaved.

Nah, it's wrong and justfying it jusr makes it worse, no matter what the role was.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

>"The peculiar institution of chattel slavery
>in America was fueled by
>the kidnapping and importation of
>Africans to the United States.
>Aside from the violation of
>human rights and civil atrocities
>akin to modern-day war crimes,
>slavery's victims were robbed of
>all wealth and worldly possessions,
>inheritances, and real estate. African-Americans
>have lost literally millennia of
>acquired family fortune and social
>standing earned by countless generations
>of civilized existence in Africa.
>It is the economic disenfranchisement
>and continued social and economic
>oppression of African-American descendants of
>slaves that has had the
>most lasting effect."
>
>http://www.nilevalley.net/history/chattle_slavery.html
>
>>it depends on circumstances, and whether
>>you are the enslaver or
>>the enslaved.
>
>Nah, it's wrong and justfying it
>jusr makes it worse, no
>matter what the role was.
>

how does ANY of that (most of which I already KNOW) contradict the point?

whites OBVIOUSLY benefited from the enslavement of africans. we, as africans did not.

for whites, it definitely was the "RIGHT" thing be involved with. they wouldnt have been world powers without that institution, their industrial revolution would have not been feuled without the resources coming from the enslavement/colonization of africans, etc, etc.

no "justification" required. it's never been about justice.

it's about different worlds, self-interests, cultures colliding.

now git with your bleeding heart illogical nonsense.

it's UTTER nonsense to suggest that poor whites did not benefit from the enslavement of africans.

it's UTTER nonsense to suggest that poor white folks would have been better off without "white supremacy", or they were independent of its positive effects on on their collective race.

white supremacy simply exists, because it is totally rational from the their point of view. it is implemented, because enough "intelligent" whites KNOW it is in their overall best interests to implement and perpetuate it.

it boggles my mind, how OUR people can not get these basic, basic ideas through their skulls and waste so much time making morality arguments to a group that could care less.

>no "justification" required. it's never been
>about justice.

No justice, no peace...or does anyone think that it will all boil over after a few hundred years? Does anyone really think the system will stand indefinitely?

>it's about different worlds, self-interests, cultures
>colliding.

It about domination and destruction, pure and simple.

>now git with your bleeding heart
>illogical nonsense.

It's only illogical to people who refuse to see the larger picture...beyond the current and dying collective consciousness...wait...what larger picture? The seeds of guilt were planted so long ago that people think it's righteousness. This is insanity. The system depends on force to maintain itself, maintain appearances and it's like trying to build a house by starting with the painting the walls. There is no foundation and eventually the walls will crumble.

Rather than have a bleeding heart I have an understanding of cause and effect. People who blindly support or maintain the system concentrate on externals at the expense of their inner integrity. Make no mistake that it's a personal choice but don't tell me that suffering and transcending suffering is illogical nonsense. That, too, is insanity.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

>>no "justification" required. it's never been
>>about justice.
>
>No justice, no peace...or does anyone
>think that it will all
>boil over after a few
>hundred years? Does anyone
>really think the system will
>stand indefinitely?

what is "best" for one's self is defined by ONE'S SELF. that is to say, none of that shit matters to them obviously. whether the systems lasts forever and ever is inconsequential, as long as it lasts long enough to fulfill their objectives: which are world domination/control, material wealth/higher living standards, etc.

>>it's about different worlds, self-interests, cultures
>>colliding.
>
>It about domination and destruction, pure
>and simple.

their world view is based upon the kill or be killed mentality. to enslave or to be enslaved. thus, whenever they have come into contact with others, they have sought to control them.

this is the basis for their conflicts with others.

>It's only illogical to people who
>refuse to see the larger
>picture...

you can look at the "bigger picture" all you want, but if you give it no value or if you look at it in a completely different way (because, perhaps, you are in a a different enviromnent), then you define your goals differently than the next wo/man would.

>beyond the current and dying
>collective consciousness...wait...what larger picture?
>The seeds of guilt were
>planted so long ago that
>people think it's righteousness.
>This is insanity. The
>system depends on force to
>maintain itself, maintain appearances and
>it's like trying to build
>a house by starting with
>the painting the walls.
>There is no foundation and
>eventually the walls will crumble.
>
>
>Rather than have a bleeding heart
>I have an understanding of
>cause and effect. People
>who blindly support or maintain
>the system concentrate on externals
>at the expense of their
>inner integrity. Make no
>mistake that it's a personal
>choice but don't tell me
>that suffering and transcending suffering
>is illogical nonsense. That,
>too, is insanity.

wtf are you talking about? really though?

if "inner integrity" and that karmaic bullshyt ever meant anything to these people, they would not have built their world in the way that they have.

the fact, that they have repeatedly robbed, raped, pillaged others is testament to the fact that they do not have the same moral code or way of thinking as you.

........

to get back to the topic,

if in africa, slave-like systems were used for prisoners of war or criminals, that fulfilled a societal need for them. thus, it was "right" for them.

if during the european or asiatic-arab-persian slave trades, these groups required the brutal enslavement of africans to build their world empires, then it was "right" for them to do that.

Yimhotep
please expound.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Entertaining, but wrong-headed to say the least.

Come on! The army? Boy, don't know know about the army? About what it purports, and what it does. Like saying that everyone is green... but some are darker green and lighter green with upholds the societal status quo and sends the message: You can get far with us if you act like "us" meaning the dominant culture.

I am not going to say much more -- it was said for me and then some and I really don't think I have anything to add -- that's positive and constructive.

Peace,

Q


*heh*



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

More Universalism, d-Best. How could there of been feudalism if my ancestors never believed in private propetry or ownership thereof.

yeah motherbitches

O R E T U H O R U M S

are worse.

I was never embarassed to be white per se until I read this post and saw idiot white people replying in droves. How stupid can you be, the guy is trying to mess with you.

I just pray this post is deleted before it gets 199 replies
(plus.. looks like there are just as many posts from blacks than from whites (we're on the generalizing post now.. it's allowed!), so in (my) theory whites are only stupid if this post gets 400 replies. hah)

This post has turned into something else... a teach in... or something...

White guilt sucks whether it got 2 or 2,000.
But it was a joke, intially and has been transformed into something different.

Like, I am glad to have met and started to develop a relationship with you and Eric, for example...

It's all chill...

Besides, it's silly of you not to catch the joke...

2

200

400
2000

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

I got the joke actually.. i just have a bad humor
Yep, it's a teach-in

I get your humor, good that you keep it light. Glad to have met all you cats too.