with "More Bounce to the Ounce"

when that record was an adaptation of an earlier (and superior) record by Vaughan Mason and in fact was part of a whole slew of songs that jumped on Mason's "bounce" bandwagon?

I've always wondered about that.

Actually, why is Vaughan Mason so slept-on in general? Maybe because he didn't really put out that much material, he doesn't have a cool name and his "Crew" was kinda faceless in general.

Anyway... Roller-skating music. Fuck yeah.

...and you bet not say nothin' bad about Roger Troutman, 'cause that's when i lose it!! (c) me via Kim Wayans

So that was the big difference then? (I'm not being sarcastic, mind you... in 1980, that talkbox sounded so damn futuristic it was a MASSIVE difference)

Roger brought that clap to the forefront too, man. it's not like it hadn't been done before...but his joints were magical.

but Vaughan Mason's clap was pretty much foregrounded too, wasn't it? http://youtu.be/jiJRC03-yPY

Soon, everybody had to be up on that sound... http://youtu.be/c24g4xZhHXQ


Then George came back and amplified everything to almost ridiculous extremes: http://youtu.be/ngu9yhBpHCI

>Roger brought that clap to the forefront too, man. it's not
>like it hadn't been done before...but his joints were
>magical.

......we'd hear on alot of funk records.

silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

-

Of course4, I have no idea whwther this song is considered to have changed the face of funk but it's definitely one of the songs-if not *the* song that ushered in the electro/¤4futuristic-funk era. It's the early 80's: post-Star Wars (and pre-TRON, LOL!), robots are cool, computer games and arcades are happening, Kraftwerk are hip, synth-pop is starting to become all the rage in another musical context; the combination of Talkbox *and* synthesized basslines, drumclaps etc.-it's a smoking combination that just reeks early 80's...

He is?

As tone said the talk box got him some buzz but I don't remember anyone back then saying he changed the sound of funk. When we saw Bootsy's name on that album we just saw it as an extension of what P Funk had been doing.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

I can't speak for at the time, but in the years since, "More Bounce" is very frequently hailed as The Record That Changed Everything, that sounded nothing like anything anybody had heard before.

Of course, as you noted... apart from the obvious Vaughan Mason influence (even in the title of the song), all of this synth-bass "bounce" stuff started with "Flashlight" and probably culminated with Kashif's most popular productions of the early to mid-80s.

Don't get me wrong... Roger's talkbox was blowin' folks minds but wasn't anyone saying it was a brand new sound for funk. Actually the song I remember really shaking things up was I'm Ready by Kano. It was pretty disco based but that was being heard as some new future funk.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

I dunno... I hear that record with different ears, the same ears with which I listen to, say, Kraftwerk... I guess because they were Italian. I don't count it in the same continuum.

You just knew there was a new jam on the radio that hit... funny because I think we just assumed everyone was from the US. I remember being shocked when I found out Change was a studio group put together by Euros.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

>I remember being shocked when I found out Change was a
>studio group put together by Euros.

ditto for BB&Q and High Fashion, esp. BB&Q... because that music was so "Black" even compared to Change. It was the same brain trust, but they definitely had 3 different models for that "New York Sound".

there's one song on the first Change album that I felt gave away their real origins... it's the one that ends the B side

He brought back the JB tradition with his slick and tight production, as opposed to the sparse production of the P-Funk crew.

>He brought back the JB tradition with his slick and tight
>production, as opposed to the sparse production of the P-Funk
>crew.

This is the second time here someone calls P-funk's production "sparse". I don't understand this-to me, it's the absolute opposite of sparse whereas both JB and Roger/Zapp sounds pretty sparse and downstripped to me...

>This is the second time here someone calls P-funk's production
>"sparse". I don't understand this-to me, it's the absolute
>opposite of sparse whereas both JB and Roger/Zapp sounds
>pretty sparse and downstripped to me...

In fact, when I brought up Roger being an extension of what P Funk was already doing I almost added "all be it a more stripped down extension" Roger's shit was very clean and focused... P Funk's shit was borderline chaotic at times.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

>In fact, when I brought up Roger being an extension of what P
>Funk was already doing I almost added "all be it a more
>stripped down extension" Roger's shit was very clean and
>focused... P Funk's shit was borderline chaotic at times.

Yeah, and out of the related acts of P-Funk, I always felt Bootsy's records were more "down to earth"... that Zapp was close to Bootsy (esp. on that first record) makes a lot of sense

I think he was more at home with session work more so than being on the forefront. And as much as I like his albums, I don't find distinction in the.

When I hear a Roger record, I know its Roger, not just because of the talkbox, but because of the rhythm guitar, the drums and the moog bass.

When I listened to New Horizon's "Your Thing" for the first time, I knew right off the bat that Roger had some hands in this, lo & behold, he did.

You know the cats that did Bounce Skate Roll

As far as Roger having a sound... no doubt you knew a Roger record when you heard it. But it wasn't like everyone was jacking that sound. It was pretty much Roger and his side acts that sounded like that.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

no wonder they/he are a funky footnote instead of **ROGER AND/OR ZAPP**.

they need to fire their PR person if they're a group, lol. this is the first i've heard of this and i've been jamming to that song for years.

Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

>Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band

>Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band
>_________________________________
>Reunion Radio Podcasts
>Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance
>
>http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

My mistake.

and I'll leave it there.

The credit - so belongs - to Roger.
Peace.

.

thus the title....it was MORE bounce....MUCH more bouuuuunce...

as was the MO of P-Funk at the time (more bounce to the ounce was co-produced by Bootsy Collins and he also played guitar on it) .... they took what was being done at the time...and then went super bedyond it....often making either references to specific groups, song titles or styles that other groups were using at the time..

so it was MORE BOUNCE....


I wouldn't say that it "changed the sound of funk" ...it wasn't the first record that used the synth as the bass line/drum thing..... there weren't a lot of recrods that really copied it after...

I would say it was a unique song in that it took that style and put an edge to it that didn't exist prior...

I will also say that it was a straight urban street banger...really maybe unlike any song that came before it....People talk about when that song dropped and the stories are the same throughout the country...it was bumped out of the low riders or the slick cats plush rides....it was bumped at the park next to the basketball court....The song did represent something very specific in urban Black america when it dropped....


I'd also say that it's one of 3 Roger/Zapp singles that really stand out as huge smash hits in that same urban way ....More Bounce.....Computer Love.....and Dance Floor (doo wa ditty and grapevine did also, but Dance Floor got even more urban airplay when it first dropped)

More Bounce didn't change funk per se...but it was a hugely impactful record...

>I will also say that it was a straight urban street
>banger...really maybe unlike any song that came before
>it....People talk about when that song dropped and the stories
>are the same throughout the country...it was bumped out of the
>low riders or the slick cats plush rides....it was bumped at
>the park next to the basketball court....The song did
>represent something very specific in urban Black america when
>it dropped....

In a way, that song represented a changing of the guard. I can't really put it into words.

period very well. Disco was peaking out and then would soon suffer it's own self implosion, the 80's were coming - it's a perfect fit for that 79-81 range. I mean there were other records that sounded similar to it. Roger on the other hand.. whew.
Not even a comparison. Again, revisionism at it's finest in this wack ass post.

type of hip hop....whether it would be like a G-Funk west coast thing, or the type of thing that an EPMD was doing.... I would say that More Bounce opened the door to that type of thing...

it was a predocessor I guess you'd say.

in the 80's and 90's.

Then try Roger. Roger was simply ahead of his time and not to mention, a real musician. Vaughn merely a studio head chasing the cusp of the sound at that time. This post is clearly an attempt for attention.

...I mean if you buy into that school of thought...which I do very much so.... More Bounce...not just the record itself but the enviornment that record came out in urban America at the time...that would be one of the influentinal points in that lineage...of Funk to Hip hop.

cause it incorporated the funk techniques of the past

real bass and drum lines

with the future

combined with electronic drums and synth lines that doubled on top of the bass line... creating a much more harder bottom and rhtyhm section.

Yep.

flashlight....and even add Burn Rubber and Humpin to that ...as well as a few other Zapp and Pfunk tunes...

at that same time you were seeing the rise of what would be called Electro-Funk.... with Records like planet rock...pack jam.....I need a freak..... some of Egyptian Lovers early songs... that was when you saw the elements of hip hop as a genre starting to merge with the funk that was happening....into a variation which again some call electro-funk....

like you say that time folks call the Bridge..... shows that musical lineage that I think a lot of people dissmiss...as I've said on here before people look at hip hop as being born in a vaccum ...something out of nothing, as opposed to as an evolution of the music at the time.

it amazes me how anyone could take that novelty record (a good one, but still) like Vaughn Mason and dare compare it to Rogers staple recording. I mean, c'mon man.

>when that record was an adaptation of an earlier (and
>superior) record by Vaughan Mason and in fact was part of a
>whole slew of songs that jumped on Mason's "bounce"
>bandwagon?

and superior? FOH.

>Actually, why is Vaughan Mason so slept-on in general? Maybe
>because he didn't really put out that much material, he
>doesn't have a cool name and his "Crew" was kinda faceless in
>general.

you answered your own question.

>Anyway... Roller-skating music. Fuck yeah.

true.

i'm still mad tho.

Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll just... *swangs* more to me.

And I actually prefer the more "organic" sound it has.








(stay mad)

first off Vaughn mason brought nothing new to the table.

Nothing.

Roger had real talent tho man.

There is nothing fresh sounding in Roll Bounce - although i can't front I love that record too.

Unfortunately, none of them are things written by you.

like another "AFKAP's opinions should be law for everyone - accept or you suck" post. haha.. I'm not trying to argue man I'm just trying to see your point.

When you can say Vaughn Mason was half the musician Roger was...
then you have a post. Til then this might as well be a
Ready for the World vs Giorgio post for real.

>like another "AFKAP's opinions should be law for everyone -
>accept or you suck" post. haha.. I'm not trying to argue man
>I'm just trying to see your point.
>
>When you can say Vaughn Mason was half the musician Roger
>was...
>then you have a post. Til then this might as well be a
>Ready for the World vs Giorgio post for real.

Again... All this bullshit is irrelevant.

Vaughan Mason dropped his record before Roger and Roger's record was a reply to Vaughan's.

That's the point of my post and THAT'S FACT.

I don't know nothing about all this other yang you poppin'

to Vaughn. Not just yet another record dead smack in the middle of the roller skating/party/soon to be post disco movement?

See that's new information to me - can I have a link or a source for that? Cause that is dope information.

Considering Rodgers record was lightyears ahead of Vaughn's in production - I think that still answers the question why is he credited for changing the sound of funk in the 80's. Rodger did that with various recordings not just the one 12inch and single.

Vaughn never had a powerful followup. Rodger was consistent.

in slightly hip hoppish terms, it's more of a 2 bar loop vs. Vaughn's 4 bar loop. Roger's two bars don't travel too much. Vaughn's...while funky as hell...moves up the scale pretty far, swings you around a bit, then back to the steady low note for the first three beats.

i forgot what my point was...but yeah, it does *swing* more. Roger's shit is more immediate gratification, imo. it's right there in your face...and it's not moving.

and those claps, man. sloppy as fuck, loud as hell. funky as humans can be.

(side note: there is a distinct difference in the clarity/engineering of these records as well. i don't own the original VM record, but i've never heard a version that was crystal clear. the mix is pretty dingy. it DOES slightly detract from the song and places More Bounce on a higher plane.)

>(side note: there is a distinct difference in the
>clarity/engineering of these records as well. i don't own the
>original VM record, but i've never heard a version that was
>crystal clear. the mix is pretty dingy. it DOES slightly
>detract from the song and places More Bounce on a higher
>plane.)

You're right on with the other shit you said too (particularly the musical analysis of both records) but yeah... the Vaughan Mason record sounds like it was mixed in a basement while Zapp's sounds like it was mixed on a spaceship.

in the late 80's.. or 90's? No cause it wreaked of that particular period - very similar to Chic, even Queens "Bite the Dust" -space around the bass lines. Staccato stabs. everything.

Now try the same for Roger. Raj wins.

Post over.

>You're right on with the other shit you said too (particularly
>the musical analysis of both records) but yeah... the Vaughan
>Mason record sounds like it was mixed in a basement while
>Zapp's sounds like it was mixed on a spaceship.

that brought to mind those Twilight records that were reissued in the height of Dam-Funk Madness. The second one, PAINS OF LOVE, sounds not only like it was recorded in a basement but in a basement where the years 1984 and 1985 never happened.

But according to Kap in this post - it's not about production.

haha..

then what is it about?

More Bounce would get that title by far..

I equate a level of "rawness" to things that are organic...

and More bouce is more raw than bounce rock skate..

bounce rock skate is too "cute" to be organic in comparison to More Bounce..

plus..the songs that sound similar in style to bounce rock skate..that list of songs would be way longer than the songs at the tiem that sounded like More Bounce..... in that way More Bounce was a much more unique song stylisticlly than bounce rock skate..

both great songs though.

Just like I said - the staccato bass lines were the thing at that point with records like Chic, Queen, and a whole host of others with that same approach. More Bounce? Nothing like it. Closest record i can even try to equate to that and prolly the only two in history that were original (and didn't same the very record in question)?

Atomic Dog
Erotic City.

Both had that same effect as More Bounce, to me.


"plus..the songs that sound similar in style to bounce rock skate..that list of songs would be way longer than the songs at the tiem that sounded like More Bounce..... in that way More Bounce was a much more unique song stylisticlly than bounce rock skate..

both great songs though."

Yep, both dope records.

Vaughan Mason's record is OBVIOUSLY vastly less "produced" than Zapp's... and it is definitely more "raw" if you want to use that word (though I would prefer not to)

I don't think the initial production technique was however.

beat on More Bounce???

it's simplistic...."raw" ....and real sounding.....it's actually my favorite part of the song..lol.

being that Catfish was phenominal on it..

Bootsy was a dope ass drummer too..... a lot of the more famous P-Funk tracks Bootsy was on drums on the record..

and I'm trying to remember which Brides of Funkenstein song it is where he's on drums....but he kills it something terrible...you really can peep his style on it....I'll post the name of the song when it comes to me.

except that it is less glossy and spit-shined... and it sounds more "real" and "raw"

"spit shinned and glossy"....lol

come on man..... there is nothing glossy about it...


and you are right....not only is there a similar line on the bounce rock song...but the basslines are super similar..

that's why I think More Bounce was an answer record in the vein that Pfunk was doing back then....thus the title MORE Bounce....

the record came out in 81.

LeChic, in my opinion, had long opened that stable.

This post, not Kap cause I definitely commend him for bringing up the past again, is just not solid. It's revisionist.

>the record came out in 81.

so, uh... no.

>LeChic, in my opinion, had long opened that stable.

"Le Chic" (I think you mean "Le Freak") is a completely different kind of record. I'm surprised you would even compare the two.

Well... Not really surprised, as non sequitur is your MO, but you get what I mean.

Anyway, while "Le Freak" has the big handclap on the chorus, it doesn't have the thick, repetitive synth-bass, which WAS a very new sound.

>This post, not Kap cause I definitely commend him for bringing
>up the past again, is just not solid. It's revisionist.

uh huh. I see.

Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles chart in 1980.

Was AC

Either way Le Chic had them.

and if that isn't the precursor... shrugs!?!?! hahaha

>and if that isn't the precursor... shrugs!?!?! hahaha

>Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco
>based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate,
>Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles
>chart in 1980.
>
>Was AC
>
>Either way Le Chic had them.

>Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco
>based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate,
>Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles
>chart in 1980.
>
>Was AC
>
>Either way Le Chic had them.

Nah the production of Chic and Nile Rodgers had Vaughn by a few years man.

Obviously I'm posting like what difference does this even make.

First Roger's double bass approach alone trumps Vaughn.

I like Vaughn don't get me wrong, but he was a studio head man, not a master musician like Roger. That I do know.

Nah I was serious I'm glad you bring this up - I find it more interesting than "is Jeezy relevant".. even if I get the dates wrong.

I'm not as old as you cats (I think) so I love the discussion.

However. No. lol.

I never said that Roger was not a genius or that Vaughan Mason was.

I never brought the issue of genius into it.

The question is about a new funk sound that became popular sometime around 1980 and why one person seems to get credit for it a lot of times when another person had a big hit with it first.

That's all that matters.

Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long since beat him to it.

Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really not an argument.

>Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that
>were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long
>since beat him to it.
>
>Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really
>not an argument.

How can Roger win when we've established that Vaughan's dropped like a year before Zapp?

And why are you comparing shit like Chic's "I Want Your Love" which is full of lush horns and strings when this post is clearly talking about the stripped-down, post-disco "roller skating music"

Seriously, dude... You are out of your depth here. Instead of talking about shit you don't know about and then editing your post 20 times in 30 minutes, you need to sit your ass down somewhere.

of Rodgers feat work. It's a great record but it's not groundbreaking to funk. Rodger on the other hand cracked that dome a few times. I mean what's the point in posting if your not ready for counter posts. The argument isn't 'who released their record first man'.

It really isn't.

Again, please show me what Vaughn Mason did that Nile Rogers hadn't done with Chic.

>of Rodgers feat work. It's a great record but it's not
>groundbreaking to funk. Rodger on the other hand cracked that
>dome a few times. I mean what's the point in posting if your
>not ready for counter posts. The argument isn't 'who released
>their record first man'.
>
>It really isn't.
>
>Again, please show me what Vaughn Mason did that Nile Rogers
>hadn't done with Chic.

Look at this nigger trying to tell me "the argument isn't who released their record first" IN MY OWN POST where I DEFINED WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS.

smh

since you wanna go there try the Nile Rogers point I positioned.

If it is based on releases - technically Rodger was already around and opening for Pfunk on many dates well before that record went big.. .neither here nor there..

okay fine.. then what did Vaughn Mason accomplish that Nile Rogers had not?

That's all I'm saying. Nigga or not.

I'm degrading myself by going back and forth with someone who appears to be posting through a drunken haze.

Sober up and come back later.

you didn't answer one question and that's a drunken haze?

again

Okayplayer doesn't pay fam

I'm working and typing

I don't get an award for knowing who's record came out first nor is posting emotional for me.

C'mon with the Days of Our Lives bullshit we are not at the UN fam.

Seriously.

Just a message board - I have nothing against you.

Soooo again, what did Vaughn accomplish that NIle Rogers had not?

Simple.

Also where is your source that More Bounce was an answer to Vaughn Mason - that's great info I would love to know. I'm not even saying that you are wrong cause i didn't know that and that's ill if it's true. Would make me go back to both.

My guess is you won't answer cause you can't. You know I'm right.

Shrugs.

>Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that
>were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long
>since beat him to it.
>
>Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really
>not an argument.

>Nah the production of Chic and Nile Rodgers had Vaughn by a
>few years man.
>
>Obviously I'm posting like what difference does this even
>make.
>
>First Roger's double bass approach alone trumps Vaughn.
>
>I like Vaughn don't get me wrong, but he was a studio head
>man, not a master musician like Roger. That I do know.
>
>Nah I was serious I'm glad you bring this up - I find it more
>interesting than "is Jeezy relevant".. even if I get the dates
>wrong.
>
>I'm not as old as you cats (I think) so I love the
>discussion.
>
>However. No. lol.

Seriously.

I'm working and typing and fucking up.

But I'm interested.

Hell you might be right I'm just not seeing it.

haha.

End of story.

Good bye!

the double bass technique of live and synth bass was one of his staple charms - between him and Marcus Miller using that technique (eventually Prince as well) that alone would become the standard 80's sound.

You have to be kidding. Or maybe you are not, explain.

>the double bass technique of live and synth bass was one of
>his staple charms - between him and Marcus Miller using that
>technique (eventually Prince as well) that alone would become
>the standard 80's sound.
>
>You have to be kidding. Or maybe you are not, explain.

As you were with the world according to AFKAP Bs.

Funny thing is that he's calling me a revisionist.... and this is a clown who endless revises his posts in the middle of conversations, papering over meaning until nobody can even figure out what the point was in the first place.

I don't know why he's got this hard on for me (yes homo)

but...

maybe it's the bitchy style posting?

I dunno.

Wack ass Vaugh Mason versus Roger... c'mon son try harder. How bad are you seeking attention really.

What's next? All R&B singers are secretly mimicking

Steve "Slinky Time" Jenkins from his 1912 classic
"Girl I Loves Ya"? Nigga please.

I point back to Stevie for popularizing it in R&B and funk music, though others (around the same time, notably Todd Rundgren) had incorporated it before the "Flashlight" explosion.

There's a certain bit of "Stevie-ism" that I've talked about with synth-bass playing from the late 1970s (when his own started to change) into the early '80s that is one of my favorite things in music. It's that extra bit of "punch" put on when doing fill ins (I've learned that the portamento effect does it), like you're "mad" at the keys or something (see: "Higher Ground" and parts of "Superstition").

There's another convention that the latest Phonte/9th song reminded me of as well... it's a figure that 9th brought out of that Rose Royce record that wasn't there originally, but was a very common thing to do in the early '80s as R&B really got synth-friendly. (see: Rene & Angela's "I Love You More", the opening bits)

And then there's Lionel Richie-ism. I don't think Lionel himself played those parts, but it's an integral "Commodores" sound with the synth bass that dates back to "Machine Gun" that followed Lionel when he went solo (see: "You Are", "Serves You Right")... Motown seemed to have the monopoly on a certain bass groove that was used in the early '80s. There was actually a Prodigy (of Mobb Deep) record, a track on PRODUCT OF THE '80s, name escapes me that uses that "Lionel Richie" figure, even though I think it was played "fresh" for the record.

the synth figure that plays just behind the piano chords in the intro?

(That piano sound is itself so quintessentially early 80s too)

As for the Lionel Richie-ism... what do you mean? Like, I can hear it in the context of the Commodores, but is it something he carried with him into his solo career (like the beginning of "You Are" maybe)?

EDIT: Or do you mean that thick, shattering synth that actually plays the "bassline" (it's more stabs than a melody) on the Rene & Angela?

>EDIT: Or do you mean that thick, shattering synth that
>actually plays the "bassline" (it's more stabs than a melody)
>on the Rene & Angela?

and yeah, the marriage of the piano w/the synth bassline is quintessential '80s... that's one of my favorite sounds on EARTH.

re: the "Richie" bass figure... it was the thing that made a lot of Commodores songs what they were (and yes, I do mean that part on "You Are"): "Zoom" is a good example. It was all over that first album, the second not so much, but I can swear you hear it even in more recent work. Chicago had 2 songs on CHICAGO 16 that brought Richie to mind because of the synthbass work: "Sonny Think Twice", and "What Can I Say".

I mentioned this earlier.

Was told production wasn't the issue here. lol.

I need to go back to the Rene @ Angela record, but I don't recall a "double-bass" effect in that song. It was frequently used (in some cases, rather subtly... the bass was more of a percussive/popping effect) in the '80s but I was speaking strictly on the synth bass alone and the figures that were used when played.

technique - and Rene and Angela did use that technique on a few recordings but I would have to pull em out to say which ones. It was a big production technique in the 80's and what i'd stated was that everyone from Roger to Marcus Miller to eventually Prince incorporated that sound. a huge bold bass sound.

when we discussed Roger being credited for 'changing funk' or being billed as 'the future of the funk' this is just one of the many reasons why. Beyond the tube voice box (big difference than just the voice box) and his style of recording, engineering and mixing.

and talking shit he don't know.

I'm sure he'll keep editing until he arrives at something vaguely resembling a point, though

Grab Miles Davis' book he speaks openly about Marcus Miller's production and production at that time regarding the double bass.

Unlike you I'll give a source.

Miles Davis autobiography as told to Quincy Troupe - I invite anyone to read that section.

It's reality fam.

bamming my ass.

If anyone fucked up it's you comparing a novelty record like Skate Bounce to a real classic like More Bounce.

Didn't answer my questions either.

What did Vaughn Mason do that Nile Rogers hadn't done already?

Also provide a link or source to the claim that Roger's "More Bounce" was a direct response record to Vaughn Mason.

Again, not even arguing just wanna know where you got that info from.

Thanks Kaptain Revisionist.

Not to mention a desperate attempt to keep this wack ass post alive.

Note - stop listening to your Ipod, then coming on Okp with some bullshit about how lives were changed just cause the coffee got you goin man. C'mon.

What next? Full Force is more of an influence than the Beatles?

sure man. sure.

Asking me to cite sources for what?

For MY OPINION?

I said I prefer "skate Rock Roll Bounce"... I have to provide SOURCES to justify my own personal preference?

All I said was that Vaughan Mason used that sound a year before Roger. This has been confirmed and you admitted that I was right about it (after editing your post like 4 different times as you furiously Googled the info).

So what are the sources for again?

LOL

It's like you're playing tennis without a net.

did you not say More Bounce was in response to Vaughn Mason?
where is your source on that? or did you go back and cover your ass on that comment as well? smh. as always.

At least a little bit. I mean that song was first and was a big enough hit that Roger had to have heard it. And is wasn't like Zapp's first album had the "Zapp Sound" all over it. More Bounce wasn't really indicative of how the rest of the album sounded... and I remember seeing Roger talk about how More Bounce was the last track they cut for that album. I'm not saying he straight jacked VM but we can't act like More Bounce was created in a vacuum either.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

I mean you could say that about Another One Bites the Dust
Flashlight, One Nation, chic - mind you I agree with you - but isn't that gonna be the case regardless? Also, that's a guesstimation - for anyone to suggest that Vaughn Mason was the future of funk...
I dunno.

my point, there would have to be something definitive about Vaughn Mason's record, that only that record could suggest, to make that point.

Nah.

>I mean you could say that about Another One Bites the Dust
>Flashlight, One Nation, chic - mind you I agree with you - but
>isn't that gonna be the case regardless?

Nothing really just comes out of thin air.... even the most ground breaking shit has elements of what came before it and whats going on at the time

> Also, that's a
>guesstimation - for anyone to suggest that Vaughn Mason was
>the future of funk...

I'm not saying that at all... In fact I disagreed with the idea Roger was seen that way too. Prince was the only cat from that era that I remember really flipping shit around and making everyone chase his sound.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

it's true.. perhaps the 'roger sound' were speaking of came out of a sect of musicians.. kinda fair to say considering his records were joint efforts, he'd been opening as an extended pfunkster for some time, his musical ability was off the charts and quite honestly he was one of the most gifted musicians of his era. So yeah I'm with you.

being that the bass lines are similar...

the titles are similar...

and being that Pfunk was involved, they had a history of "answering" other records and artists..

it was like...yeah..that was BOUNCE rock skate....but this is MORE BOUNCE..to the ounce..

I dunno..maybe i'm seing connections that aren't there...but that's a lot of connection to just be by chance

I never really thought about it like that but seeing it all laid out that way makes me believe it very well could have been the case.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

parts of the country wasn't it called bounce music? Cause honestly what Vaughn did was pull out a call and response that was happening on the east coast already at roller rinks everywhere.

Also for some reason - and I could be totally off the mark - I always thought there were parts to more bounce.. .like a 1 and 2 and that's what that was. Not sure and I'm no where near my vinyl collection cause of this damn storm.

because Clinton and crew are like that is cute fine and dandy but this how it is suppose to be done.

if clinton's camp didn't think much of you then they wouldn't come after you.respect

as much as it was like they were motivated to Go Beyond what others were doing......like in every way....

that element about them really motivated other artists....Rick James spoke on it in the One Nation Documentary.....dude from Earth Wind and Fire said the same in that Funk Documentary....

that pushed other artists..and the genre itself to keep evolving and pushing to make great albums, and rip the roof off of arenas...

that's what's missing in todays music

gospel cats
jazz cats
rock heads
beatmakers
and so on.

today's musicians do it out of a need to be more famous, for them it came purely from a musical place.

Oh and I'm still really tripping off that footnote about Bootsy. I'ma rock that shit when I get home all night.

Sorta like what if you were just finding out about the P/Stevie Nicks footnote.

is Holding you responsible..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9kh4AoHkk

he had a funky style on the drums...


also...on the topic of pfunksters playing on tracks.... you hip to Bernie Worrell on the intro of this Dramatics song??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWo5AkPw4yw

clinton and crew wanted to command the funk and if you think they weren't up on anyone else getting on the turf then think again?

i mean Clinton kept his eyes on James brown, Sly and the Family stone and everybody else and would take folks from any camp to one up.

it brought out the best in others and it was competition.

I can see your vision...

i actually think Vaughn and Roger arent credited enough.

both put boogie and funk on the fore front.

sure alotta dudes sampled Roger....

(i guess you can consider that credit)

but i havent seen anyone making tributes dedicated to him.

>but i havent seen anyone making tributes dedicated to him.
>

perhaps you may be interested in this post...

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=128159&mesg_id=128159&listing_type=search

this is a tribute that i did some years back...
http://www.usershare.net/gs0cpl1hi6wl


hope ya like it.

noooo....no..

not on that scale.

im speaking on a much larger scale.

music awards...big concerts and such.

you dont see any well known artist paying homage to them dudes.

only person i see paying much homage to boogie and funk on a wide scale is DAM-FUNK.

thats a nice post.

im gonna DL that mix.

Quik is always using that late 70s early 80s era of funk/boogie for inspiration and paid homage to Roger with a couple of songs after he died. Plus he uses the talk box from time to time on his albums.

good Producer

good arranger

but the Voicebox gimmick hurt him because the cat wasn't much of a singer and he wanted to be Smokey Robinson Jr in the worst way on the Sho Nuff.

i followed his career and huge fan of his playing skills, but listening to him trying to croon was a trip but he hid behind the voicebox to cover his vocal shortcomings.

his songwriting wasn't nothing special, but he had so much groove and rhythm that it covered it up nicely except for folks like myself who value real songwriting.

he is important to Funk, but not the end all be all and he ain't quite top ten in the Funk All time, but he is high on the list.

but I still say he's a hall of famer...

He has 3 records in More Bounce....Computer Love....and Dance Floor.... That as far as impact at the time when they came out....there are a lot of groups in the Hall of fame that didn't splash as hard with 1 song... Steely Dan comes to mind....but there are others..

and it ain't even close and I loved Roger as a Musician, but Donald Fagan and Walter Becker be doing Keith Jarrett, Duke Ellington with other hybrids.

when did Joe Sample ever groove on a Roger and Zapp album and yet was doing session work and the Steely stuff was the sho nuff truth?

"Black cow" alone was sampled and flipped like a Hot cake at dennys all kinds of sideways.

"FM" is a beast of a Jam the Sax version and the Guitar solo version.

if you stick to grooves in your conversation i can say yes, but when you start talking about songwriting and impact you are off the mark.

naw never said that Roger had to be Curtis Mayfield, however the gimmick of the talkbox put him more closer to Frankie Smith than to curtis Mayfield especially when we are talking about songwriting.

Steely Dan has a wide range of hybrid sounds which Roger and Zapp never were seeing, Roger as a Musician can hang with a whole lot of cats, but as a Songwriter, Producer? Marginal at best.

the three cuts you mentioned are classic grooves and jams, but it ain't like they are exactly going to make Stevie Wonder to forget his glasses.

...yes it's a cool song, but from Vaughn himself...he bit the bass line from Chic's "Good Times," hired a singer he paid $75 for the session and had himself a multimillion dollar hit.

he's a sound engineer now in the DC/B'more area. i just so happen to be working this video shoot a couple years ago for some song on DC Statehood (we see how that's goin'). he's out there with us on break telling us how the music biz "used" to be. tellin' us stories about Dru Hill (which i can't remember...or really wasn't too interested in). so he eventually gets to talkin' about how life treated him.

he said he just wanted to have a hit record. the biggest record out at the time he said was "Good Times." so he hummed the bass line to the song and said, "there's went like that. i changed mine to sound like this..." a la Robert Van Winkle! there was no Crew, he said he basically got some session musicians, hired a singer and produced the song. he made millions off of it, but lost most of it after two divorces.

so the song u're using as an example has its origins in another song the artist himself said he lifted. basically a disco/dance song. aside from the bass line, nothin' funk-based about it.

First of all, I'm not sure if there's a general consensus amongst historians that he changed the course of funk music.
And if he did, so what?
more bounce is a pivotal song in funk history
between that song and prince's keyboard/one man sex funk, that pushed the genre forward in2 the 80's

Second, Vaughn made a roller skate jam while more bounce was about....bouncing checks...i dont believe it was a response to roll bounce...that wasn't pfunk's style..those dude's had their own lane and wasn't copying from no one..

The person responsible for More Bounce wasn't Roger or Bootsy as the previous folks are saying....the person responsible for More Bounce's eclectic sound was..................George Clinton


Here's Shock G telling the story:

Okay, and while we’re at it, one more juicy little-known gem about the man: He’s responsible for the rhythm arrangement of “More Bounce to the Ounce” by Zapp(!!) Yes, George Clinton, in a little bit of a fluke, a little studio savvy, and a bit of luck, actually gave Roger that sound, that formula that Roger went on to use on his next 3 follow-up singles; “I Can Make You Dance”, “So Ruff, So Tuff”, and “Dance Floor”, That chunky stutter bass against the thick handclap? Zapp & Roger’s signature sound and main money maker? It was a George Clinton creation. (Doh!)

Very true. That sound is the result of George cutting a 2-foot long piece out of the 2-inch multi tape, flipping it around backwards, looping it to itself, and then slowing it down to the current speed of “More Bounce”. Apparently, Roger’s original groove was faster and a lot busier. They said it was in a vein like his “Heard it through the Grapevine” song: fast and choppy with a busy chord progression, and the bass was all over the place, an elaborate melody.

George, who was producing Roger’s first album for his new Uncle Jam label that year (which is another fascinating story: how the crazy older brother Larry Troutman sneak signed the group to Warner Bros. behind George’s back while he and Bootsy left the studio to get food. Yes, the same crazy brother who shot Roger dead 10 years later.)

Anywayz, earlier that day, while Zapp was still set to be the first new act on George’s label, George got concerned that Roger didn’t have anything they could use as a single yet, and that he needed something simpler then what he had heard so far, and that’s when he performed the tape trick.

The new slower piece in reverse created the rhythm and melody that became the infamous “More Bounce” kick-drum and synth-bass “B-B-Bomp CLAP-Bomp-Bomp” arrangement. With a smile George said “That’s all ya need right there. Just build the song around that”, and the rest became that beast of a record. If you listen closely, you can still hear the backwards bass & drums underneath; that was the first thing they started with, and then began overdubbing more tracks on a second 2-inch machine.

They told me that Roger also had about 10-times the lyric content he wound up using and that George convinced him to eliminate most of it and just keep repeating “mooore boooounce” they way he did. I was told this first hand by Boogie the bass player and Gary Shider, who were both also there that day.

And speaking of George’s Zen-like integrity; get this:
-after he had a verbal agreement from Roger and had been grooming him for months to be the first release on the new Uncle Jam label, and also after producing a good portion of his album so far, (including literally creating “More Bounce” for him), after all that, when George returned and learned that a Warner rep had showed up, went in the back room with Larry and Roger, talked him out of signing with George’s label in 5 minutes they said, and signed him directly to Warner–

They said George looked at them with disappointed eyes that said “Really?” looked down at the ground for a second, shook his head no, shrugged and said “Well, so much for that”, and turned around and walked out the studio.

The remaining P-Funk cats walked out after George, and I think they said Bootsy was the only one who stayed behind to help finish producing it, which is why Bootsy’s name appeared in the credit.

But yeah, George gave that classic song it’s essence as well as named the group “Zapp.” He never sued or spoke about it again, he just let it go, but I heard he was sad and heartbroken by it, as he had a friendship building with Roger prior to that incident.

come to think of it, that song really stands out from the rest of that album

as much as zapp + roger was known for song duplication, more bounce was never duplicated.

george's a bad mofo!!!

As Shock G noted in the story you posted, the formula was revisited for "So Ruff, So Tuff" and "Dancefloor" though of course there are variations, for example... those songs have bridges and more melody and stuff.

and it makes sense since "More Bounce" really is a offshoot of "Flashlight" in some ways, and like The Doc said, it's very different from the rest of the album.

You have a link for that Shock G account?

the topic of discussion can be a whole nother post
which i think it was on here a few years ago

http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/is-george-clinton-a-pretender-shock-gs-open-letter-defending-p-funk/

about "More Bounce" being "more organic" than "Skate, Rock, Roll, Bounce"... All that shit about cutting off pieces of tape and playing backwards is about the furthest you can get from "organic."

But even without knowing that background detail, I don't understand why anyone would say Zapp's record sounds "organic"... It sounds like the product of pure studio craftsmanship to me while Mason's record sounds like a band just playing music, right down to the bad mix.

with regard to his references to Chic and Queen.

"Skate, Rock, Roll, Bounce" is clearly an attempt to play Chic's "Good Times" with a synth-bass (just as Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" was an adaptation of "Good Times" also)

Unfortunately, AD is unable to make a coherent point and he kept referring to the wrong Chic songs, talking about "Le Chic" (ie "Le Freak") and "I Want Your Love," neither of which has anything to do with Vaughan Mason's record.

(Also, it's tough to have a conversation with AD because of his incessant editing. By the time you reply to him, he's changed the post to say something completely different. So you edited to respond to his updated post and by the time you hit "Post message" he's changed his post 2 more times.)

Anyway... the point still stands. Even if Vaughan bit the bassline, the fact that he played it on a keyboard is what created the paradigm I was referring to.

I was kinda like, "but wasn't that song an offshoot of Good Times?" which to me is the QUINTESSENTIAL skate song... even says it in the lyrics. "Skate, Roll, Bounce" was notable in that it tried to ... I dunno the word, "humanize" the synth bass. Even when Stevie did it, while it was certainly organic, there was something that was definitely tied to the instrument when it was played.

I think I really need to flesh out this idea... I type this as I have the instrumental of the Prodigy song I mentioned (which is called "In The Smash") on loop.

>I type this as
>I have the instrumental of the Prodigy song I mentioned (which
>is called "In The Smash") on loop.

Yeah, I can hear that Lionel Richie sound you're talking about, though I can't quite describe it myself lol

does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more bounce???

>does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more
>bounce???

the melody is not much similar, but the BOOM... CLAP sound, that street sound, hell yeah.

>does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more
>bounce???

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592533

wasn't that paradigm already created with the synth bass holy trinity?
flashlight/one nation/knee deep???

that big synth-bass was not as foregrounded.

And to my thinking at least, P-Funk's stuff was more like an experiment or revolutionary breakthrough... but not yet a "paradigm" that becomes a standard.

...a day later and 100-some posts in you specify what you meant.

Vaughn's still a VERY bad example. he can't be credited in the way u're trynna do. he was ridin' someone else's wave.

if anything, sonically and rhythmically "Holy Ghost" by the Bar-Kays would be a better song as an example than Vaughn's. especially when the beat changes.

Perhaps you just didn't read.

...you "wondered" why Roger garnered more credit than Vaughn Mason. then did a 180 and later said "what i was actually referring to was..." some shit about synth bass." no where do u say that in your OP. even crediting Vaughn with "changing the sound" of funk is misguided cuz, well...he didn't. as i said in my earlier post you giving him credit when i heard the man himself say he ripped off someone else. how much sense does that make? i'm speaking factually. u? speculatin' as usual w/o fact. there were other songs that were better at what you've been "wondering" about regarding the changing sound of funk. but for some reason you fixated on a one-hit wonder who knows he got over. lol!

>...you "wondered" why Roger garnered more credit than Vaughn
>Mason. then did a 180 and later said "what i was actually
>referring to was..." some shit about synth bass." no where do
>u say that in your OP.

I deliberately left the OP open-ended because many of my posts where I state my agenda outright from the beginning turn to big clusterfucks. Not that I have a problem with that per se, but I didn't have the time or energy for that on Friday.

I was looking to unfurl the argument based on the responses to the post and was doing so with MONOTONE and OP before AD came in and derailed the shit with his special brand of insanity.

even crediting Vaughn with "changing
>the sound" of funk is misguided cuz, well...he didn't. as i
>said in my earlier post you giving him credit when i heard the
>man himself say he ripped off someone else. how much sense
>does that make? i'm speaking factually. u? speculatin' as
>usual w/o fact.

Speculation is not a sin. My post was about musical examination and not so-called "fact." It's a way of making myself and others *think* about music analytically. I'm not trying to write a Vaughan Mason biography.

That said, Mason ripped off Chic's "Good Times" COMPOSITIONALLY and my post had less to do with composition than it was about the SOUND of Funk. The synth-bass, with the clap coupled with a certain minimalism that was not really present in "Flashlight."

Just read the fucking posts before you get in my face with your aggressive gotcha-ism. I have a hard time understanding why you assholes get so up in arms with a nigger just throwing questions out there. You don't agree with me? Fine... Say it. But why does it have to turn to a bloodsport every time it involves AFKAP?

Fuckin' bamma.

there were other songs that were better at
>what you've been "wondering" about regarding the changing
>sound of funk. but for some reason you fixated on a one-hit
>wonder who knows he got over. lol!

What does him being a one-hit wonder have to do with anything? I'm not talking about the scope of his career or calling him a "genius" (as that other bamma AD tried to move the goalpost to talk about). There have been many, many, many, many one-hit wonders that have changed the course of music... So what's your point?

That being said, "Jammin' BIg Guitar" was a moderate hit too.

...u take your toys and go home? nice! as i said earlier, Vaughn's a bad example to hinge your discussion on. i even provided an example with the Bar-Kays as a song that aggressively used a synth bass in a funk record to counter YOUR example. my point: pick another song cuz the one you chose doesn't hold up.

I deliberately made a lightweight post to kill time on a Friday afternoon and once the time was sufficiently killed, I literally left the post and went home. But I actually left the toys behind for anybody who wanted to play with them.

There's no grand agenda being pushed here. Just a passing observation, as was made pretty clear in the skeletal nature of the original post.

You'll notice that after a certain point, I dropped out of the post completely and didn't come back till later. I didn't even see your post about the Bar-Kays and I have no idea what you're talking about.

That being said AGAIN, this was not about who used a synth bass in record first or anything like that. Obviously "Flashlight" came before all these and Stevie was using synth bass before that.

It was about a particular early 80s minimalist sound sometimes known as the "bounce" sound. If that was not made abundantly clear to you, maybe that's my failing (I don't know how that could be as I made that clear even in the sketchy OP). But maybe it would have made sense for you to ask for clarification as OP and MONOTONE and Claw did instead of coming to the post with an accusatory attitude.

EDIT: I just realized that I actually replied to the post where you mentioned the Bar-Kays. My bad... I thought you meant it was something you said earlier, before I came back.

Anyway... No. Just no. I don't know how the fuck you call "Holy Ghost" a bounce record. It's not even close.

post discussing it's evolution and the different styles incorporated with it as it became a popular sound in Black music...

I mean we all know the highlights.... Pfunk and Bernie and them using it on Flashlight..... Stevie Wonder..... you know another angle is 2 guys who went on to use it pretty well during it's hey day had connections to Stevie in Ray Parker Jr.(Raydio) and Michael Henderson particularly with Wide Reciever....

some lesser known artists used it well during that time like Jerry Knight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEQHEuPFGB8

then of course the eletro funk era....the synth bass interplay with the drums, where later you start to see the concept of making "beats" from that sound...

getting into that area of hip hop coming from Funk..... the Rise of Prince .....

lots of interesting elements to this topic...

>I mean we all know the highlights.... Pfunk and Bernie and
>them using it on Flashlight..... Stevie Wonder..... you know
>another angle is 2 guys who went on to use it pretty well
>during it's hey day had connections to Stevie in Ray Parker
>Jr.(Raydio) and Michael Henderson particularly with Wide
>Reciever....

I remember OldPro mentioning how "Wide Receiver" reminded him of the Steelers vs. Oilers on Monday Night Football, and on the Youtube link of that song, there's a comment by someone about how the song reminded him of a play where the Oilers got screwed by the refs because of the lyrics.

but yes. Good look on that Jerry Knight song, because that's definitely unique. "Wide Receiver" really was one of those songs that stressed its importance in Funk... that line could have easily been played on an electric bass, but because it wasn't...

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592533

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592540

I was hoping that from there we could move towards talking about how that sound moved from "More Bounce" to "Cutie Pie" to D-Train to Kashif and Evelyn Champagne, etc.

the fact that the syth bass line is accented with the drum beat ...they kind of blend together where they make the bass and drum one in the same... That sound along with how they hit in the urban areas ... See now that is where I would say that More Bounce was a game changer for Funk in a sense.... not just the fact that the synth bass was in it...but how it was used in a percussive since to blend with the drums....

that led right into the so called Electro-funk ....which led into hip hop......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuDvx-j8-5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6zkbjOvXWo

we talked previously about the new jack swing...and hip hop soul.... a lot of that came out of the the electro-funk movement....which again was birthed out of the synth based funk of a Zapp...One way and the like...

was more of a West Coast thing.

New York really had a very different hip-hop sound even though some east coast groups eventually did put out some synthier records.

version of it was there too..... Planet Patrol...... Lisa Lisa Cult Jam.....Debbie Deb....Shannon's let the music play was released out of New York...

it was definitely a bi-coastal thing....

We could say that on both coasts you had a "Hip hop movement" that didn't exclusively utilize Rap.....You had singers singing lead on songs that were leaning towards a more r&b-ish style of the so-called electro funk...

I would say that Evelyn Champagne King begat Shannon's Let the music play.....

but rather from the NYC Latin Freestyle scene... though they would also have an impact on hip-hop (Mantronix etc)

Good point on the Planet Patrol, though... All that Arthur Baker stuff, Jonzun Crew... Newcleus and Warp 9 as well.

Still it seems to me that rapp was much more wedded to electro on the West Coast than on the East where it was almost something of an side dish.

EDIT: Of course, how can I forget about Man Parrish, who might have actually kicked off the whole hip-hop/electro trend in the first place. But what I'm saying is that NYC had a hip-hop sound before the electro thing before whereas I get the sense that on the West Coast, the electro thing is what made hip-hop popular there in the first place.

as far as the double up with the synth bass and the bass guitar.... it gets no funkier than Holy Ghost... but you also see the interplay with the drums to give you that percussive "beat" (with actual drum playing used more than the drum machine)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSNE3NpKu9M


of course they used it later ....without really having the bass guitar sound...but blending with the drums...this time with more of an emphasis on a drum program....with the synth bass...

on She talks to me with her body
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-tUMgK7Wc

in the "bounce" continuum than "Holy Ghost"

but let me not try to restrict this to the bounce thing... Feel free to talk about the evolution of the synth bass in funk in general (though I think that topic would be better served in a fresh, untainted post)

15 years later.

your mileage may vary, though.

its like Mr.Dale Degroate said on Zapp unsung.....Roger didnt invent the talkbox but he was the first to make the talkbox the lead instrument in a song....

and to me....that is genius.....