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Subject: "metalheads, assemble: " Previous topic | Next topic
Binlahab
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Sun Jul-28-13 10:23 AM

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"metalheads, assemble: "


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyJR5sGEdaM

how do we feel about The Sword?

ditto for red fang


does it even matter?

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
copped their album. solid but I don't really revisit
Jul 26th 2013
1
post tracks and other posters critique: Amenra - Boden:
Jul 26th 2013
2
Doomy. I dig lost goth waifs wandering naked in the forest though.
Jul 26th 2013
4
Eh. I wouldn't travel to see them. Maybe an in-town show.
Jul 26th 2013
3
Also, "Kill 'Em All" turned 30 this month.
Jul 26th 2013
5
Feeling oldest of all: James Hetfield. *nm*
Jul 26th 2013
9
I find them kind of mediocre and plastic.
Jul 26th 2013
6
You don't have to tell Bin about High On Fire!!! lol
Jul 26th 2013
7
It's possible I'm a little too into this stuff. *nm*
Jul 26th 2013
8
well damn! tell me how you really feel!
Jul 26th 2013
12
i listened to every one.
Jul 26th 2013
13
Glad I could point you to some stuff you like. :)
Jul 26th 2013
14
pentagram is a dc band. & imma dc head
Jul 27th 2013
17
First daze here comp is amazing...
Jul 28th 2013
19
      RE: First daze here comp is amazing...
Jul 28th 2013
22
Here's another - Castle
Jul 27th 2013
16
BOO!!!
Jul 28th 2013
18
      I agree, and was surprised by that
Jul 28th 2013
24
      This Graveyard album is really good
Jul 29th 2013
47
damn just got around to listening to most of these. can't believe Spirit
Jul 29th 2013
44
      If you dig Wino...
Jul 30th 2013
52
           I've been meaning to check Saint Vitus out because I do like
Jul 30th 2013
54
                LOL, I wouldn't call them hugely famous...
Jul 30th 2013
56
                     Good summation!
Jul 30th 2013
59
                     Or how about how doom bands get even more stripped down
Jul 30th 2013
61
                     Yeah, the punk-fixation with doom comes through in early Melvins...
Jul 30th 2013
63
                          That first Dream Death album is great!
Jul 30th 2013
65
                     Ha interesting. They were recreating Sabbath 'before it was cool'
Jul 30th 2013
60
                          They were simultaneously behind-and ahead-of their time...
Jul 30th 2013
62
How about Ghost B.C.?
Jul 26th 2013
10
Imagine Slipknot crossed with the Beach Boys.
Jul 26th 2013
11
lol
Jul 29th 2013
35
Purists have turned on them completely
Jul 26th 2013
15
Nah, the first one was decent...
Jul 28th 2013
20
Thanks for the responses
Jul 28th 2013
28
      No, go see them. Live they are great.
Jul 28th 2013
29
           ^This. n/m
Jul 29th 2013
31
All Pigs Must Die.
Jul 28th 2013
21
Yeadat.
Jul 29th 2013
33
      nvm dropped at a later date on itunes. will cop tonight
Jul 29th 2013
37
Somebody put me on to something new.
Jul 28th 2013
23
This sounds like a new thread, basically.
Jul 28th 2013
25
Well, I don't know if this board can support two active metal threads...
Jul 28th 2013
26
      I'm absolutely loving the new Gorguts album
Jul 29th 2013
30
      Appreciate it.
Jul 29th 2013
39
      so do you like the more melodic / anthemy stuff like Ghost Brigade
Jul 29th 2013
34
      Yeah...kinda hit or miss...
Jul 29th 2013
40
      I'll just throw some names out
Jul 29th 2013
36
           Yo I love Ulcerate. Burning Skies was on repeat last year.
Jul 29th 2013
38
           Cool. Lemme work my way through all this.
Jul 29th 2013
41
Check out Christicide's new album, UPHEAVAL OF THE SOUL
Jul 30th 2013
116
      Listening now...yeah, I'm digging this.
Jul 30th 2013
117
even tho I don't fk with metal much any more.. im enjoying this post
Jul 29th 2013
32
i believe i have 1 of yall to thank for intro'ing me to orange goblin
Jul 29th 2013
42
just started listening to metal. what are the seminal metal albums?
Jul 29th 2013
43
this is gonna start some arguments
Jul 29th 2013
45
I always liked South of heaven more than Seasons...
Jul 30th 2013
51
      I'm with you
Jul 30th 2013
55
I'd listen to all of these in this (basically chronological) order
Jul 29th 2013
46
      Thumbs up for Storm of the Light's Bane
Jul 29th 2013
48
      Now that's a great list!!!
Jul 30th 2013
50
           I ALMOST put in Voivod, because I love them...
Jul 30th 2013
53
           i have a few voivod albums on wax...
Jul 30th 2013
70
           And also
Jul 30th 2013
57
           I had Godflesh "Streetcleaner" as a kid
Jul 30th 2013
58
           Godflesh>>>>>>NIN *and* Ministry...
Jul 30th 2013
64
                Streetcleaner is worth revisiting
Jul 30th 2013
66
                I meant to write that they were better than those bands...
Jul 30th 2013
68
                     Funny you should mention that...
Jul 30th 2013
71
                          It's a good album
Jul 30th 2013
73
                               I never fooled with them that much.
Jul 30th 2013
75
                                    Title track & one of the best from the album -
Jul 30th 2013
77
                PURE!!!!!!!!!
Sep 29th 2013
137
           Classic OKP brainfart right here:
Jul 30th 2013
102
                LOL, yes, I meant that one!
Jul 30th 2013
104
                     That's hilarious
Jul 30th 2013
106
Two new bands I just got up on: one hard, one soft (pause that shit)
Jul 30th 2013
49
I'm proud of us for making this thread viable.
Jul 30th 2013
67
I saw Amon Amarth for the first time last night.
Jul 30th 2013
69
Holy shit the band looks like a series of before and after pics
Jul 30th 2013
72
      Vikings, man.
Jul 30th 2013
74
           fuck yeah that's the best kind of metal
Jul 30th 2013
76
                This band is worth your time
Jul 30th 2013
                I tend to agree.
Jul 30th 2013
78
                     Interesting germ of a theory there
Jul 30th 2013
79
                     Buck has a good kernel for a theory but this is a good point:
Jul 30th 2013
80
                     Generally agree but...
Jul 30th 2013
81
                     That's fascinating.
Jul 30th 2013
82
                     You're being generous about the quality of my thinking.
Jul 30th 2013
84
                          So the germans didn't register at all?
Jul 30th 2013
85
                          Again, maybe in the cities.
Jul 30th 2013
88
                          RE: You're being generous about the quality of my thinking.
Jul 30th 2013
91
                               It's fascinating to me.
Jul 30th 2013
100
                                    But this is quite an exaggeration:
Jul 30th 2013
103
                                    The big difference, I think, is the record store part.
Jul 30th 2013
108
                                    Yeah, and it wasn't just your typical record-store either...
Aug 02nd 2013
123
                                         That EP is great.
Aug 03rd 2013
128
                                    RE: But this is quite an exaggeration:
Jul 30th 2013
109
                                         Yeah, all of that.
Jul 30th 2013
111
                                         lmao
Jul 30th 2013
113
                                         Yeah, I apologize...
Aug 02nd 2013
122
                                              No reason to apologize.
Aug 02nd 2013
124
                                    Midwest.
Jul 30th 2013
105
                                         All of this:
Jul 30th 2013
110
                     LOL, I've actually never been a big fan of viking metal...
Jul 30th 2013
83
                          Adding on to my previous post, above:
Jul 30th 2013
86
                               no mention of Kirk huh? lol
Jul 30th 2013
87
                               Well, name a legendary, iconic Kirk solo.
Jul 30th 2013
89
                                    Rust In Peace is still incredible. Mustaine is a ginger beast.
Jul 30th 2013
92
                                         Well, I don't play guitar, so....
Jul 30th 2013
95
                                              If anything I'd say he's less well-regarded by guitarists.
Jul 30th 2013
96
                                                   I always liked his solos...
Aug 02nd 2013
125
                                                        Jason Becker. I had that on cassette.
Aug 03rd 2013
126
                                                        That's completely fair
Aug 03rd 2013
129
                                                             Guitarsolos in more extreme metal is a difficult issue overall I think.....
Aug 03rd 2013
130
                                                                  Fredrik Thordendal.
Aug 03rd 2013
131
                               Reply #91
Jul 30th 2013
94
Aight, your single all-time favorite metal track:
Jul 30th 2013
90
Well that's just insane.
Jul 30th 2013
93
Suicidal Tendencies - You Can't Bring Me Down
Jul 30th 2013
97
too ez, drill sgt!
Jul 30th 2013
99
Mine:
Jul 30th 2013
101
Dammit...I can't choose one.....
Jul 30th 2013
107
Cheating, but solid choices.
Jul 30th 2013
112
damn i cant front on NONE of these LOL
Jul 30th 2013
114
      He still had two on that track.
Jul 30th 2013
115
           RE: He still had two on that track.
Jul 30th 2013
119
           RE: He still had two on that track.
Jul 30th 2013
120
Krallice - "Dimensional Bleedthrough"
Jul 30th 2013
118
PROBABLY this one:
Aug 03rd 2013
127
GATDAMNY! this motherfucker blew up! LOL nm
Jul 30th 2013
98
Emperor reuniting for shows in '14, headlining Wacken.
Aug 02nd 2013
121
GORGUTS!!!!
Sep 06th 2013
132
I haven't head it yet...
Sep 06th 2013
133
New Carcass streaming.
Sep 09th 2013
134
Shit's ok...
Sep 28th 2013
135
Necroticism was my introduction to Carcass.
Sep 29th 2013
136
the best metal album in 2013, so far.
Sep 30th 2013
138

T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 01:30 PM

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1. "copped their album. solid but I don't really revisit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like I do with amenra, old man gloom, shrinebuilder, ghost brigade etc.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 01:50 PM

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2. "post tracks and other posters critique: Amenra - Boden:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zach15ky-yA

Dillinger Escape Plan - One of Us Is the Killer; poppy but this is just good songwriting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcUiM7queQ

Ghost Brigade - Breakwater (older)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1MKBXGpsQ4

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:00 PM

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4. "Doomy. I dig lost goth waifs wandering naked in the forest though."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

A recurring theme in metal videos.

I've never been that into DEP, although I feel as though I should be.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 01:55 PM

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3. "Eh. I wouldn't travel to see them. Maybe an in-town show."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:27 PM

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5. "Also, "Kill 'Em All" turned 30 this month."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-26-13 02:28 PM by Buck

  

          

Lot of metalheads feeling pretty old at that news...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:53 PM

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9. "Feeling oldest of all: James Hetfield. *nm*"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

--

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:45 PM

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6. "I find them kind of mediocre and plastic."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not outright objectionable, but there are at least a dozen modern doom or proto-metal/hard rock-type bands I'd much rather listen to. To wit:

The Gates of Slumber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRVd9W1YeoQ

Hour of 13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGxFREdBM64

Magic Circle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2y1iWZop6Q

Serpentcult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA6ZYZhTbEc

Jex Thoth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzOLCBB2v2A

Graveyard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGBa8dVm6k

Witchcraft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21CntiqHAww

Kadavar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWj6eD5NQ4

The Devil's Blood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FZ22D0DVUo

Anguish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cIly-F7LuE

High on Fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqrCGJwdfgA

Christian Mistress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsM1zml0W60

Vestal Claret (video NSFW): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw2HgyVQ3qs

SubRosa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcgIonOOZ0I

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:48 PM

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7. "You don't have to tell Bin about High On Fire!!! lol"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I dig the singer from Christian Mistress

never heard of those other ones wow

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 02:53 PM

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8. "It's possible I'm a little too into this stuff. *nm*"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

--

  

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Binlahab
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182954 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 06:42 PM

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12. "well damn! tell me how you really feel!"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

good looking tho

soon as my kids stop watching dora the explorer & go to sleep...im playing this @ EARSPLITTING levels...in my headphones


does it even matter?

  

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Binlahab
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Fri Jul-26-13 06:59 PM

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13. "i listened to every one."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


>The Gates of Slumber:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRVd9W1YeoQ
yes.

>Hour of 13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGxFREdBM64
no.

>Magic Circle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2y1iWZop6Q
no. too much doom. i need more manic energy. make me wanna lift weights. not smoke a blunt & ponder my own death.

>Serpentcult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA6ZYZhTbEc
a VERY weak no. I actually dug em but it was like...mathy. too much. musicianship was incredible, but i need...less doodle more bang your fucking head to this

>Jex Thoth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzOLCBB2v2A
no. i bet shes a LOT of fun to get drunk w/ tho

>Graveyard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGBa8dVm6k
eh. it was cool. i guess. but no.

>Witchcraft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21CntiqHAww
YES! fucks w/ this.

>Kadavar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWj6eD5NQ4
YES! we on a roll now

>The Devil's Blood:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FZ22D0DVUo
YES! 3 for 3. I can see imma be a downloading ass this weekend

>Anguish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cIly-F7LuE
ehhhh. too much doom. damnit sweden! no

>High on Fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqrCGJwdfgA
YES a million times over. IMO this is what metal should sound like in 2013. i almost dead lifted my couch just now banging this song.

>Christian Mistress:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsM1zml0W60
No. but im going to put this up on my FB to utterly piss off some of older xtian female relatives. LOL @ my aunt melody defriending me on FB for beign a heathen

>Vestal Claret (video NSFW):
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw2HgyVQ3qs
Yes. tight work

>SubRosa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcgIonOOZ0I
ive heard of them before. i dig it. Yes

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Fri Jul-26-13 09:15 PM

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14. "Glad I could point you to some stuff you like. :)"
In response to Reply # 13
Fri Jul-26-13 09:17 PM by dalecooper

  

          

Obviously a lot of what I'm into is more on the "redolent with smoke & Satan" side of the fence. Atmosphere and SERIOUS doom is up my alley. But I like more rock-style bands too, just depending. It's always hard to say what about certain acts is going to hit the sweet spot for me.

You know Pentagram (the US band)? They're older - though still active. If not, do check them out. Their self-titled (a.k.a. "Relentless") is amazing, as is most of the "First Daze Here" compilation. There's also a documentary about the lead singer called "Last Days Here" which is really quite moving - the guy was a fucking mess, and it basically prevented his band from having their shot at competing with the likes of Sabbath.

--

  

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Binlahab
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Sat Jul-27-13 08:11 AM

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17. "pentagram is a dc band. & imma dc head"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

ive seen em live...not in their heyday but yeah...tight work...thanks


does it even matter?

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Jul-28-13 07:00 AM

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19. "First daze here comp is amazing..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

I don't really like any of their later albums as much as that one-I think 70's hard-rock (as opposed to 80's-90's metal) production-values and sound-aesthetics fit them perfectly. but they have still done a lot of dope stuff.

The other "majo"r Pentagram (the one from Chile) is killer too but "noone" in the Lesson besides you and me seems to care for that type of stuff... Oh well.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Sun Jul-28-13 09:23 AM

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22. "RE: First daze here comp is amazing..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>I don't really like any of their later albums as much as that
>one-I think 70's hard-rock (as opposed to 80's-90's metal)
>production-values and sound-aesthetics fit them perfectly. but
>they have still done a lot of dope stuff.

I really love the 80s trilogy of Relentless, Day of Reckoning, and Be Forewarned. That's all first rate doom metal to me. But it's hard to compete with "First Daze" - those songs sound so inspired. If you listen to all that material and the follow-up release (First Daze Here Too) it's clear they were still finding themselves a little bit, but the best songs on both CDs are just amazing.

>The other "majo"r Pentagram (the one from Chile) is killer too
>but "noone" in the Lesson besides you and me seems to care for
>that type of stuff... Oh well.

Yeah those guys are great. They're supposedly releasing a comeback album (and actually their debut) at some point, but I'm not sure it will live up to those demos. They were inactive a LONG time.

--

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Sat Jul-27-13 06:46 AM

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16. "Here's another - Castle"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIPrDRJPZFE

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Sun Jul-28-13 06:57 AM

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18. "BOO!!!"
In response to Reply # 13


          


>>Graveyard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnGBa8dVm6k
>eh. it was cool. i guess. but no.
>

Those are my guys and singer/guitarist Jocke is a killer dude in every regard not to mention that he is amazing-worldclass even-with a soldering iron in his hands: fast *and* aesthetically perfect solderings.

If you like Sword (the stoner/doom-equivalent to Wolfmother or Lenny Kravitz) and Red Fang more than those guys at this time personal and distinct take on late 60's hard blooze-rock, I'm looking at you sideways

You dug Witchcraft though, that's cool...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Sun Jul-28-13 09:24 AM

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24. "I agree, and was surprised by that"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I really dig Graveyard, especially that album. (The last one wasn't quite as good somehow.)

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 11:12 PM

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47. "This Graveyard album is really good"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Mon Jul-29-13 06:22 PM

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44. "damn just got around to listening to most of these. can't believe Spirit"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Caravan isn't listed in with those bands.

Too old or obvious a band?

The singer from Gates of Slumber sounds exactly like Wino Weinrich of Spirit Caravan / Shrinebuilder / a hundred other bands

Shrinebuilder - Pyramid of the Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MOvk-dNLRY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 02:20 AM

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52. "If you dig Wino..."
In response to Reply # 44


          

...be sure to hear Saint Vitus "Born too late" (1986) if you haven't heard it; one of the GOAT doom-albums to me with classics like "Dying inside" and the title-track (the lyrics to that one is kind of the definitive doom statement of purpose). I dig the first s/t one too (the second one sounds more NWOBHM and is strangely non-doomy even if it's dope) but while I dig original vocalist Scott Reagers and his somewhat theatrical and goofy style, Wino was clearly the guy who took them next level both with his voice and his primitive but personal lyrics.

I saw them live last summer and they killed it, Wino sang SO good.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 07:51 AM

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54. "I've been meaning to check Saint Vitus out because I do like"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Wino. I always knew Saint Vitus as a bar in Brooklyn my friend is always going to, had no idea it was named after a hugely famous band!

Anyways it looks like they have been doing more work together at reunion shows here and there, maybe they'll make a stop in Brooklyn

I'll check out Born Too Late

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 08:23 AM

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56. "LOL, I wouldn't call them hugely famous..."
In response to Reply # 54
Tue Jul-30-13 08:23 AM by Jakob Hellberg

          

They are generally considered one of the "big 3" Doom-bands of the 80's but the other two (=Candlemass and Trouble; the former from sweden and ahving a somewhat corny and VERY euro, operatic power-metal take on doom even if I dig them, the latter were a bit more US 80's metal, great band too) were MUCH bigger at the time. Actually, the love for Saint Vitus is somewhat revisionist and comes a bit from the stoner-rock scene in the early 90's which was heavily indebted to them; I don't remember reading about them in the metal-press back in the day.

Actually, they were signed to Greg Ginn's legendary punk/indie label SST and I guess most of their fans were punk-rockers who were previously into Sabbath, the SST/Black Flag-connection is how I found out about them too when I started to collect records on that label in the late 80's/early 90's.

However, the punk-rock vibe is what kind of gives them an edge over an act like Candlemass today-Vitus sounded MUCH more primal, primitive and-dare I say it?-"soulful". The negative is that they never had good production-values back in the day but instead a thin, punky "hardcore" sound (which is cool in its own way) so don't expect the heaviness to ooze from the speakers the way it does for modern bands; I'm 100% sure they WANTED to be heavy as fuck but the SST-guys didn't know how to produce/record heavy shit which is obvious on even the later Black Flag albums...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 08:56 AM

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59. "Good summation!"
In response to Reply # 56
Tue Jul-30-13 08:57 AM by dalecooper

  

          

I definitely think the popularity of Vitus is a later/revisionist thing. Candlemass and Trouble were clearly bigger at the time. Those three plus the 80s albums from Pentagram give a nice encapsulation of 80s doom - maybe also Witchfinder General is worth a look. Then going into the 90s you have Cathedral and the whole extreme doom/death doom/funeral doom thing: Thergothon, Winter, Esoteric, Disembowelment, Anathema, My Dying Bride, and so on.

The punk aspect is interesting. For some reason punks seem to have had almost as much fascination with doom metal as with thrash, and sometimes more so - maybe since it is often more primitive and less overtly technical music. Magic Circle is a great new band whose members are all known from the Boston hardcore scene (and are also in a good, highly Sacrifice-influenced band called Death Evocation).

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:11 AM

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61. "Or how about how doom bands get even more stripped down"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

like the newer stuff Earth is doing, or what Horseback tries to do

Ahriman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okj2Y_GHRBs

Punk is simple straightforward and unpretentious, I think doom at its peak / best is, but becomes a parody of itself when it becomes formulaic and recycled. The next step is maybe taking it back to real Americana rock without being cheesy.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 09:27 AM

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63. "Yeah, the punk-fixation with doom comes through in early Melvins..."
In response to Reply # 59
Tue Jul-30-13 09:27 AM by Jakob Hellberg

          

...and Kilslug. Actually, when I first heard the first Eyehategod-album (who are sludge rather than doom but whatever), it felt more to me like punk than metal and I'm pretty sure it was in the "alternative"/"grunch"(sic) bin rather than the metal ones. The definitions have definitely changed a lot over the years; had Melvins "Gluey porch treatments" come out today. it would have been called metal but then, they were jsut not thought of as that. Of course, the definition "indie" has gotten increasingly wimpy and "punk" more formulated after the commercial breakthrough; that plays a part as well...

>I definitely think the popularity of Vitus is a
>later/revisionist thing. Candlemass and Trouble were clearly
>bigger at the time. Those three plus the 80s albums from
>Pentagram give a nice encapsulation of 80s doom - maybe also
>Witchfinder General is worth a look. Then going into the 90s
>you have Cathedral and the whole extreme doom/death
>doom/funeral doom thing: Thergothon, Winter, Esoteric,
>Disembowelment, Anathema, My Dying Bride, and so on.

I think Paradise Lost-before they went all goth/Depeche Mode/crap-was the big one for doom/death; the other british ones like Anathema and My dying Bride were followers/bandwagon-jumpers IMO even if they stuck with the sound I guess and probably have stronger discographies, I wouldn't know really...

BTW, are you familiar with a band called Dream Death who released an album on New Renaissance in the 80's? The vocals are a bit too clean to be full-on doom-death but they were really going in that direction even if the doominess sounds a bit more like Celtic Frost (kind of like how Obituary's doominess did) than Sabbath. Still, that album is really cool and something of a building block in that sound as well. Autopsy too of course, especially the second album...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:50 AM

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65. "That first Dream Death album is great!"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

I hear they just released something new too, but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

Autopsy is amazing of course. I hesitated to mention them because they're as much death as doom; getting into that opens a whole can of worms with other bands who were predominantly death metal, but integrated a whole lot of doom into their music (e.g. Incantation). That became so common after a while that it's easier, when discussing doom, to just stick to the bands that pretty much always stayed at slower tempos.

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:06 AM

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60. "Ha interesting. They were recreating Sabbath 'before it was cool'"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

basically. lol

When I see bands like Kadaver posted above, I mean they are great but wow they really are replicating the look, the sound, and the entire lifestyle around what Sabbath was doing in the 70s. Sometimes the tribute bands get to be a little much. Saint Vitus having been doing it almost three decades earlier than Kadaver and much earlier than the stoner / doom first wave in the late nineties (right?) seems like it definitely placed them retroactively at the head of the table. It's like how during the late 90's people really started to fetishize the Cold Crush Brothers and Spoonie Gee and the Treacherous Three etc.

I know what you mean by the bassy doom crunch you can enjoy in later releases. I can listen to good modern doom with my eq still set to hip hop and it sounds great. I can't imagine doom without crunchy drums and thick bass

Good thing is that the soulful quality Wino and Saint Vitus had is combined with better mixes on the Spirit Caravan and Shrinebuilder projects. I know there is lots of other stuff Wino was involved with but I'm not familiar with them.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:17 AM

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62. "They were simultaneously behind-and ahead-of their time..."
In response to Reply # 60


          

In the context of the mid-80's-and as explained in the lyrics to the song "Born too late"-everyone must have looked at them like freaks and total retro with their clothes and sluggish Sabbath and even fuzzy Blue Cheer-fixation. The early grunge-scene (think Melvins, Mudhoney and even Soundgarden to a certain extent) kind of shared those obsessions in various regards depending on the band but it didn't come out the same way and sounded much more "alternative" (well, Melvins were in retrospect pretty much a doom/sludge-band in many songs but at the time, they were in the punk- or indie-sections) and less doom or stoner.

Fast forward a couple of years and Saint Vitus suddenly felt like pioneers, especially since the primitive and punky aspects they did add made them more than just Sabbath-copyists and clearly made them appear as some sort of missing link, it's pretty funny...

Wino was in another classic early doom-band called the Obsessed but I have mostly read about them, never really listened outside of a demo-comp. once which was pretty cool... I know that Henry Rollins and Ian MacKaye were huge fans of the band though; the punk-rock connection again...

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
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Fri Jul-26-13 05:51 PM

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10. "How about Ghost B.C.? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe Hellberg will jump in since they are Swedish but heard good things about the band but never got around to taking a listen.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Fri Jul-26-13 06:33 PM

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11. "Imagine Slipknot crossed with the Beach Boys."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I saw them open for Mastodon and Opeth last year.

I was excited when Mastodon came on.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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35. "lol"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Fri Jul-26-13 09:23 PM

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15. "Purists have turned on them completely"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

because they're doing the Satan-rock thing but very pretty and poppish. And they're starting to sell (their vinyl goes for ridic prices on eBay). I thought they were just alright from the get-go, and I still think that; they're pretty good songwriters, but metal shouldn't be that clean and pretty, IMO. I'd rather just listen to Blue Oyster Cult (clearly one of their main influences).

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sun Jul-28-13 07:02 AM

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20. "Nah, the first one was decent..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

The new one is slick to the point of sounding like a more rocking Toto; I appreciate what these guys are trying to do and I dig the image and aesthetic and combination of melody and heaviness but they just sound smooth as fuck-not the best idea for this type of music IMO...

  

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go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Sun Jul-28-13 01:13 PM

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28. "Thanks for the responses"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I won't bother with them.

A friend of mine wants to go to a concert, headliner Avenged Sevenfold with openers Ghost and Deftones and he is mainly going for Ghost which I am not familiar with. Out of those, I have no desire to see the headliner, Deftones would be okay but this show would only be worth it for tickets 15 to 20 dollar range, guessing its 40 to 50 tho so pass.

I got tickets for Queens of the Stone Age next Sunday so will be happier with their show.

  

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BigReg
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29. "No, go see them. Live they are great."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Even if you think the music is mediocre (which I do) they are fun band live and stay in character the whole time which is pretty fucking entertaining,

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-29-13 01:39 AM

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31. "^This. n/m"
In response to Reply # 29


          

.

  

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BigReg
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21. "All Pigs Must Die."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-28-13 08:57 AM by BigReg

  

          

The last record was a fucking staple for me in the gym.

This one is more of the same. There will be better metal records this year (there already are, it's been a great fucking year) but there will be no metal* record this year that is more badass.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Mon Jul-29-13 07:33 AM

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33. "Yeadat."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Couldn't find their new one on itunes?

APMD is my shit.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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37. "nvm dropped at a later date on itunes. will cop tonight"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Sun Jul-28-13 09:24 AM

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23. "Somebody put me on to something new."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't like self-consciously retro stuff, so if it sounds like it belongs to 1979, skip that. And the current wave of pseudo-black-metal-shoe-gaze stuff is boring as fuck. And no doom, for the same reason.

Basically, I have narrow tastes, and have a difficult time finding new stuff that I like.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Sun Jul-28-13 09:26 AM

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25. "This sounds like a new thread, basically."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

So you're looking for something new, and not retro. Any particular sub-genre? How extreme do you like your metal?

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Sun Jul-28-13 09:41 AM

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26. "Well, I don't know if this board can support two active metal threads..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>So you're looking for something new, and not retro. Any
>particular sub-genre?

No, but my tastes run to death, progressive death, melodic death, thrash, technical...a friend once describe me as liking "precision and ferocity."

>How extreme do you like your metal?

Very. BUT, there comes a point of diminishing returns. Faster =/= better, and blast beats get old quick. Grindcore, for example, leaves me wanting melody and rhythmic variation.

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-29-13 01:29 AM

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30. "I'm absolutely loving the new Gorguts album"
In response to Reply # 26


          

"Colored Sands". It's not out yet, just leaked a few days ago.

Honestly I think their music is pure and from the heart enough that I won't dishonor it by trying to describe it or put it in a genre. It's definitely unique though.

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Mon Jul-29-13 09:43 AM

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39. "Appreciate it."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I know the name, but haven't listened.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Mon Jul-29-13 07:36 AM

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34. "so do you like the more melodic / anthemy stuff like Ghost Brigade"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

and Be'lakor and stuff like that?

They make a pretty conscious effort to not sound doomy or retro I think.

Then you have more experimental bands like Intronaut, DEP, they DEFINITELY aren't nostalgic

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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40. "Yeah...kinda hit or miss..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>and Be'lakor and stuff like that?

Be'lakor's okay. I've got a friend who's pretty into them, and they're good at what they do. But kinda generic melodeath, basically.

I don't like Ghost Brigade at all.

>Then you have more experimental bands like Intronaut, DEP,
>they DEFINITELY aren't nostalgic

Yeah, I've got Intronaut's records.

And you either really love DEP, or you don't. They give you your money's worth live, but I don't fool with them otherwise.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Mon Jul-29-13 08:27 AM

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36. "I'll just throw some names out"
In response to Reply # 26
Mon Jul-29-13 08:37 AM by dalecooper

  

          

These are a handful bands of various styles that are doing new or new-ish stuff in recent years.

Ulcerate (somewhat avant garde death metal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQlHHEde-ho

Vektor (quirky, sci fi-themed technical thrash): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FADd5rAznOc

Portal (incredibly dense, chaotic death metal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pKjF41Yx1k

Thantifaxath (sonically straightforward black metal with unusual compositions and riff structure): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quo2_fSVLEQ

Lantern (atmospheric, primitive death metal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R-3f_AoYg8

Gigan (spacy technical/progressive death metal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_oago_ntQ

Aosoth (oppressive black/death): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwIzGc9eJ1E

Flourishing (death metal with some hardcore and avant garde elements): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN1_i0vc6j4

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Mon Jul-29-13 08:30 AM

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38. "Yo I love Ulcerate. Burning Skies was on repeat last year."
In response to Reply # 36
Mon Jul-29-13 08:33 AM by T Reynolds

  

          

actually the whole Destroyers of All album, but the blast beat was crazy on the opener

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Mon Jul-29-13 09:56 AM

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41. "Cool. Lemme work my way through all this."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

That's definitely a list of stuff I don't know about.

  

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johnbook
Charter member
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Tue Jul-30-13 04:06 PM

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116. "Check out Christicide's new album, UPHEAVAL OF THE SOUL"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Great French band, defined as black metal but offer so much more.


THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://www.thisisbooksmusic.com/
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif
http://i50.tinypic.com/hvqi4w.jpg

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 04:12 PM

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117. "Listening now...yeah, I'm digging this."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Awesome. Much obliged.

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 02:59 AM

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32. "even tho I don't fk with metal much any more.. im enjoying this post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

bringing back a lot of memories

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Binlahab
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182954 posts
Mon Jul-29-13 04:00 PM

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42. "i believe i have 1 of yall to thank for intro'ing me to orange goblin"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHxiouKy8Ho

  

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PROMO
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Mon Jul-29-13 06:17 PM

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43. "just started listening to metal. what are the seminal metal albums?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Binlahab
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Mon Jul-29-13 06:53 PM

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45. "this is gonna start some arguments"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

master of puppets - metallica
reign in blood - slayer
number of the beast - iron maiden
seasons in the abyss - slayer
black sabbath - black sabbath
ace of spades - motorhead (1 of my fav records of all time)
vulgar display of power - pantera

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 02:19 AM

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51. "I always liked South of heaven more than Seasons..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

Everyone I know in "real" life prefers "Seasons..." but there seems to be some people who prefer "South...". I think "Seasons..." have better production and vocals but "SOH" is FAR more consistent with only one dull track (=the Priest cover which is actually much less intense than the original; who would ahve thought?) and several classics.

I guess the problem of "SOH" was that it lacked a major epic *fast* thrasher like "Angel of death" which the band properly addressed on "Seasons..." with the mighty "War ensemble". The fast songs on "SOH" in general are not too hot; it's the slow/midtempo shit they excelled at there IMO...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 08:19 AM

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55. "I'm with you"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

In fact, I think they had a slight decline with each album starting with "Hell Awaits." So Hell > Reign > South >>> Seasons. But all four are great to me (as is "Show No Mercy," though it's my least favorite of the first five).

--

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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46. "I'd listen to all of these in this (basically chronological) order"
In response to Reply # 43
Mon Jul-29-13 09:10 PM by dalecooper

  

          

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny
Motorhead - Ace of Spades
Iron Maiden - Killers
Dio - Holy Diver
Mercyful Fate - Don't Break the Oath
Metallica - Ride the Lightning
Megadeth - Peace Sells... but Who's Buying?
Possessed - Seven Churches
Bathory - The Return...
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Death - Scream Bloody Gore
Sodom - Persecution Mania
Napalm Death - From Enslavement to Obliteration
Sepultura - Beneath the Remains
Morbid Angel - Altars of Madness
Entombed - Left Hand Path
Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten
Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul
Dissection - Storm of the Light's Bane

That hits most of the major developments and a lot of the key albums from the dawn of metal up to the mid-90s. I won't lie, I don't love every one of these, but if you're looking to understand how the genre evolved, at some point you'll need to hear them all and then realize how influential each was (or how it at least represented part of a major sea change at the time it came out).

You can go a lot deeper into every thread here, and some minor (in my opinion, anyway) movements and scenes aren't really touched on. But that's a pretty sizable list to tackle. If anything strikes your fancy I'd be happy to elaborate.

Also understand that a few choices here are borderline arbitrary. e.g. "Ride the Lightning" was neither Metallica's debut (hugely groundbreaking for thrash) or their biggest album (which was "Puppets"); but I feel like it established their mature sound, the sound of thrash metal as opposed to speed metal, and since it predates Puppets by a couple years, here it is. Sodom could easily be swapped out for a like-minded early Kreator album, representing the wild thrash that was coming out of Germany. "Left Hand Path" might as well be Dismember's debut album, which I love even more, but "Left Hand Path" and the band that made it are the most iconic from their scene. Darkthrone was making massively influential black metal for a couple albums prior to "Transilvanian Hunger," but that album crystallizes and perfects the Norwegian black metal sound and iconography, so I prefer it. etc. etc. etc.

--

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-29-13 11:29 PM

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48. "Thumbs up for Storm of the Light's Bane"
In response to Reply # 46


          

Only album I'd add to the two lists above: Krallice - "Dimensional Bleedthrough"

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 02:01 AM

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50. "Now that's a great list!!!"
In response to Reply # 46


          

While I personally would have made some replacements ("Stained class" instead of "Sad wings", "MOR" instead of "Paranoid", "Under the sign..." instead of "the return" etc.), the ones you picked are definitely what I would consider the money-albums. Maybe some of the "proggier" subgenres are missing (Voivod's "Dimension Hatröss" and Celtic Frost's "Into the Pandemonium" and that fucking Queensryche-album would do the job I guess along with Atheist's "Uncontrolled Substance") and I would personally have put some butt-rock/hairmetal there (Mötley Crue's "Shout at the devil" and W.A.S.P.'s debut are the great ones to me) but I doubt too many people care for that stuff nowadays so whatever...

And props for choosing "FETO" rather than the more typical "Scum" (the former is MUCH better and more radical too IMO even if I guess the "novelty" was missing) and "Ride the lightning" rather than "Masters of puppets".

Regarding Entombed vs. Dismember, I agree that Dismember's album is the strongest in retrospect (less disparity between primitive old demo-songs and more "mature" compositions) but as you said, "LHP" is the benchmark and Entombed from the getgo had an incredible sense for small musical details which made their music sound very "organic" compared with other death metal whereas Dismember were more purely brutish and straightforward in their approach so "LHP" is probably a better introduction.

Anyway, props!!!


>Black Sabbath - Paranoid
>Judas Priest - Sad Wings of Destiny
>Motorhead - Ace of Spades
>Iron Maiden - Killers
>Dio - Holy Diver
>Mercyful Fate - Don't Break the Oath
>Metallica - Ride the Lightning
>Megadeth - Peace Sells... but Who's Buying?
>Possessed - Seven Churches
>Bathory - The Return...
>Slayer - Reign in Blood
>Death - Scream Bloody Gore
>Sodom - Persecution Mania
>Napalm Death - From Enslavement to Obliteration
>Sepultura - Beneath the Remains
>Morbid Angel - Altars of Madness
>Entombed - Left Hand Path
>Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten
>Darkthrone - Transilvanian Hunger
>Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
>At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul
>Dissection - Storm of the Light's Bane
>
>That hits most of the major developments and a lot of the key
>albums from the dawn of metal up to the mid-90s. I won't lie,
>I don't love every one of these, but if you're looking to
>understand how the genre evolved, at some point you'll need to
>hear them all and then realize how influential each was (or
>how it at least represented part of a major sea change at the
>time it came out).
>
>You can go a lot deeper into every thread here, and some minor
>(in my opinion, anyway) movements and scenes aren't really
>touched on. But that's a pretty sizable list to tackle. If
>anything strikes your fancy I'd be happy to elaborate.
>
>Also understand that a few choices here are borderline
>arbitrary. e.g. "Ride the Lightning" was neither Metallica's
>debut (hugely groundbreaking for thrash) or their biggest
>album (which was "Puppets"); but I feel like it established
>their mature sound, the sound of thrash metal as opposed to
>speed metal, and since it predates Puppets by a couple years,
>here it is. Sodom could easily be swapped out for a
>like-minded early Kreator album, representing the wild thrash
>that was coming out of Germany. "Left Hand Path" might as
>well be Dismember's debut album, which I love even more, but
>"Left Hand Path" and the band that made it are the most iconic
>from their scene. Darkthrone was making massively influential
>black metal for a couple albums prior to "Transilvanian
>Hunger," but that album crystallizes and perfects the
>Norwegian black metal sound and iconography, so I prefer it.
>etc. etc. etc.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 07:09 AM

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53. "I ALMOST put in Voivod, because I love them..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

but I feel like their influence has either minimal or very diffuse to the point of often being unrecognizable. Great band though, and anybody who wants to should hear any or all of their prime three (Killing Technology, Dimension Hatross, and Nothingface).

Master of Reality over Paranoid is a fine choice, I just tried to skew to the earlier album whenever possible. I did skip over their debut though because Paranoid is where they really turned from blues rock to metal, I think.

--

  

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PROMO
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Tue Jul-30-13 10:52 AM

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70. "i have a few voivod albums on wax..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

liked the prog sound they were putting out and picked em up. thanks for all the suggestions. i've already peeped a few of those out (holy diver is the shit) just based on googling " (blank)'s best album" and seeing what popped up. i will check em all out though.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 08:32 AM

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57. "And also"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

"Shout at the Devil" is a good inclusion (and a really good album - so is "Too Fast For Love"), but if you're trying to understand metal that's an interesting detour in that it basically just leads out of metal. Likewise with early Def Leppard or whatever. So many of those bands started out metal and then turned into glam rock, and the trend they kicked off was almost entirely not-metal.

Queensryche is probably a big miss on my part. I barely listened to any kind of prog or power metal after high school so that's a blind spot for me, but you do have to acknowledge their influence. And I do still really like their earliest stuff. So let's toss in "The Warning" (I like their EP better but it's not as polished or representative) and call it a day. "Operation: Mindcrime" was their most high-profile work before they went all pop metal with "Empire," but I'd prefer to recommend earlier and superior material, so "The Warning" it is.

Speaking of pop or rock-based metal, another blind spot for me (intentionally so) is that. But if you want a brief overview, listen to Metallica's black album, "Empire" by Queensryche, and "Wolverine Blues" by Entombed. Three very different takes on what metal bands do with a major label deal and an eye at going a bit more mainstream.

And finally, another significant album I omitted that is worth mentioning is Godflesh's "Streetcleaner." It's an absolute beast, one of my favorites in this whole thread, and was a player in the evolution of metal and industrial (and a lot of bands who straddled the boundary between the two).

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Jul-30-13 08:39 AM

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58. "I had Godflesh "Streetcleaner" as a kid"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

damn I had some weird taste

Ten years old buying Godflesh with carwash money

then Cypress Hill happened and it was all rap after that

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 09:34 AM

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64. "Godflesh>>>>>>NIN *and* Ministry..."
In response to Reply # 57
Tue Jul-30-13 09:36 AM by Jakob Hellberg

          

That's all...

Actually, the comp where I first heard Godflesh-the budget "Grindcrusher"-comp on Earache (the single vinyl; the cd and later double-album add too much crap)-might be the illest metal-comp of all time for me; choice cuts by Morbid Angel, Carcass, Napalm Death, Bolt Thrower (before they were dull), Repulsion, Terrorizer etc. and then:Godflesh! "They" totally stood outside of the rest musically but were just as sick... Great memories and I agree that "Streetcleaner" is the best even if I must admit I haven't played it in years, however, I remember it as the best.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:57 AM

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66. "Streetcleaner is worth revisiting"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

A stone-cold classic. Actually I really like most of their stuff. Or "his" stuff, since that's practically a one-man band.

Ministry too, good call. "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" is their high water mark for me - it's after they fully became industrial metal (and not industrial/dance or /pop like they were early on), but before they became a little more digestible. I know a lot of people love "Psalm 69" best and it was certainly very popular, as well as having some awesomely crunchy guitar riffs. But for me "Mind" is their perfect album - creepy, atmospheric, disturbing, yet heavy as hell.

Then that leads into rockier waters like Skinny Puppy and Throbbing Gristle, but at that point it really has nothing to do with metal at all.

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 10:02 AM

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68. "I meant to write that they were better than those bands..."
In response to Reply # 66


          

I have no idea what happened. But yes, I dug Ministry too but that's another band I literally haven't listened to in 20 years time (actually, since "Psalm 69" came out). I only heard three of their albums-"Land of rape and honey", "The mind..." and "Psalm 69". I can't remember which one is the best, that's another one I need to revisit...

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 10:59 AM

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71. "Funny you should mention that..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

>I have no idea what happened. But yes, I dug Ministry too but
>that's another band I literally haven't listened to in 20
>years time (actually, since "Psalm 69" came out). I only heard
>three of their albums-"Land of rape and honey", "The mind..."
>and "Psalm 69". I can't remember which one is the best, that's
>another one I need to revisit...

I listened to most of "Psalm 69" a couple of months ago for the first time in years while going through old CDs. It was all right. Holds up, mostly.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:12 AM

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73. "It's a good album"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

I prefer "Mind" but "Psalm 69" is probably their 2nd best. Then "Land of Rape and Honey." After "Psalm" they got into a period of... not their best work. Later on Al rebuilt the band (such as it was) and brought in the guitarist from Prong to supply more metallish riffing for a couple albums. The best of the later period was probably "Rio Grande Blood" - a very fierce, thrashy album and I believe the most metal thing Ministry ever did. That was part of a "Bush trilogy" of albums (they were all themed as anti-George W. Bush screeds) that were all fairly decent, though not as good as their heyday.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:33 AM

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75. "I never fooled with them that much."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

>I prefer "Mind" but "Psalm 69" is probably their 2nd best.

I've got "Mind" around here somewhere, but after "Psalm" I haven't heard anything. Always felt there was something inherently unsatisfying about their sound...tough to describe. Not enough low end, maybe.

>Then "Land of Rape and Honey." After "Psalm" they got into a
>period of... not their best work. Later on Al rebuilt the
>band (such as it was) and brought in the guitarist from Prong
>to supply more metallish riffing for a couple albums. The
>best of the later period was probably "Rio Grande Blood" - a
>very fierce, thrashy album and I believe the most metal thing
>Ministry ever did. That was part of a "Bush trilogy" of
>albums (they were all themed as anti-George W. Bush screeds)
>that were all fairly decent, though not as good as their
>heyday.

I'll check for "Rio Grande Blood," out of curiosity.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:46 AM

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77. "Title track & one of the best from the album -"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp6B6ABVYDQ

I don't know if you'll love it if you weren't into earlier stuff, though. But it scratches that thrash itch for me more so than earlier Ministry, mainly because the riffing is better/faster.

--

  

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Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
2150 posts
Sun Sep-29-13 09:32 AM

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137. "PURE!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

dnng dnng DNNG dnng... dinininininin. PURE!!!

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
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Tue Jul-30-13 02:46 PM

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102. "Classic OKP brainfart right here:"
In response to Reply # 50
Tue Jul-30-13 02:46 PM by Stringer Bell

          

Enjoyed your thoughts and picks, but you wrote Atheist - "Uncontrolled Substance", a mistake I could see myself, and just about nobody else, making. LOL

(Unless they covered the Deck solo album, I am sure you meant "Unquestionable Presence").

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 02:55 PM

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104. "LOL, yes, I meant that one!"
In response to Reply # 102


          

I guess the inspectah Deck title-whcih I haven't listened to since it was released. Is it good? I love the wu but that one didn't do much for me-was in my head somewhere

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 03:01 PM

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106. "That's hilarious"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

I skimmed right over that and some part of my brain thought, "That's not right... is it?" But being a Wu-head and an Atheist fan, I couldn't figure out what was wrong and just kept moving on.

The Deck album is pretty good. By no means a classic, but worth having if you're a big fan of the group.

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:09 AM

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49. "Two new bands I just got up on: one hard, one soft (pause that shit)"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-30-13 12:10 AM by T Reynolds

  

          

Hard

Fallujah is bad as hell. Been looking for a band with a drummer as crazy as Ulcerate's, the fact that these dudes are from the Bay makes me like them even more.

Extreme technical death metal for that ass - The Dead Sea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2_b6K_2_Y

The atmospheric aspects in some of their tracks reminds me of Krallice, who I like too, but Fallujah is much more focused in their writing and direction sonically.

Cerebral Hybridization off Fallujah's first album
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtDL17WLbls

Soft

Lo-Pan is barely metal the vocals are so fucking good. Stonered out shit.

I really wish there was a link on youtube to El Dorado on the album

But here's Chichen-Itza - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtDL17WLbls

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 10:00 AM

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67. "I'm proud of us for making this thread viable."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not quite sure how metal regained some small amount of cultural cache (Pitchfork had something to do with it, but I don't feel like they started it). But it's fun to talk about it on boards that aren't metal-dedicated.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 10:45 AM

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69. "I saw Amon Amarth for the first time last night."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

They brought it.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:00 AM

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72. "Holy shit the band looks like a series of before and after pics"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

of the same dude

http://fanart.tv/fanart/music/5b687684-ad34-4a9f-b425-0e7aa81fbd38/artistbackground/amon-amarth-506ccd7d3e988.jpg

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:15 AM

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74. "Vikings, man."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Johan drank from a drinking horn on stage.

I swear by the middle of the set I was ready to grab a halberd, mount a mighty steed, ride across snowy plains, and conquer something.

Unfortunately this was in Louisville, KY, so the best I could do was conquer a Wendy's Frosty after the show.

Which I pretended was made of the breast milk of a fair damsel.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:36 AM

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76. "fuck yeah that's the best kind of metal"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

i prefer viking metal to satan metal

just out of personal aesthetic

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:48 AM

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"This band is worth your time"


  

          

Perpetually underrated, I think because they play in a somewhat melodic and accessible style, but have certain aesthetics more in common with the underground, who don't really get them. Anyway, the war- and viking-themed Helcaraxe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpH0Q9lXS1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oztowTypuI

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 11:48 AM

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78. "I tend to agree."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>i prefer viking metal to satan metal
>
>just out of personal aesthetic

I actually have a poorly developed sociological theory about this. Essentially there are two kinds of metal, and two kinds of metalheads: introverted and extroverted. Satanic metal is basically introverted, and is about personal escape from an unpleasant reality. Appeals to the outcast, unpopular kids, who didn't play sports and didn't go to prom.

Viking metal, on the other hand, is an example of extroverted metal, and is about power, and domination of your reality.

That's about as far as I've gotten.

Also, ten bucks says Jakob's got a halberd in his closet somewhere. Or knows someone who does.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 12:03 PM

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79. "Interesting germ of a theory there"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

However, a lot of power fantasies also appeal primarily to introverts. I mean, the main readers of Conan books and other heroic high fantasy are not usually alpha males. I feel the same is true of most listeners of Amon Amarth (as well as other war-themed bands like Bolt Thrower); in fact metal in general is more of an introvert's genre. It wasn't until after the popular ascendance of Metallica and (even more so) Pantera circa the early 90s that it really seemed to become cool among good-looking, musclebound dudes to listen to extreme metal. I feel like true alpha males are mostly into metal for an aural representation of their built-in aggression and fuck-all-y'all attitude - hence why so many redneck jocks like Pantera (with its extremely literal visualization of a face being punched on "Vulgar Display") but are not so much into Unleashed or mid-period Bathory.

Bathory is also a good case-in-point here, since Quorthon is one of the trailblazers of both Satan metal AND Viking metal. Early Bathory is basically the prototype for Norwegian black metal that came later, and Amon Amarth wouldn't exist without mid-period Bathory (though sonically they're not totally similar). And both incarnations were run by a true introvert - a guy who had a one-man band before it was remotely acceptable to do so, and even lied to the media about it to make it seem like he was one of the slightly-cooler kids (i.e. guys in a real band, with a real drummer).

--

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:07 PM

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80. "Buck has a good kernel for a theory but this is a good point:"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jul-30-13 12:16 PM by T Reynolds

  

          

>However, a lot of power fantasies also appeal primarily to
>introverts. I mean, the main readers of Conan books and other
>heroic high fantasy are not usually alpha males. I feel the
>same is true of most listeners of Amon Amarth (as well as
>other war-themed bands like Bolt Thrower); in fact metal in
>general is more of an introvert's genre. It wasn't until
>after the popular ascendance of Metallica and (even more so)
>Pantera circa the early 90s that it really seemed to become
>cool among good-looking, musclebound dudes to listen to
>extreme metal. I feel like true alpha males are mostly into
>metal for an aural representation of their built-in aggression
>and fuck-all-y'all attitude - hence why so many redneck jocks
>like Pantera (with its extremely literal visualization of a
>face being punched on "Vulgar Display")

Speaking of which, anybody check that Phil Anselm project that just dropped?

Curious how it is

Dude still doesn't look all the way right

But sidenote: I'll be honest that the times I most love listening to metal from the death metal to the more accessible hard rock is in the gym. I have only a couple of friends that would listen to any of the stuff posted here. It's either 'white music' or just too heavy for them. That's why I really appeciate dudes in this thread sharing knowledge because I don't have anybody to talk about this stuff in real life with. In that sense, metal FOR ME is an introverted pursuit, even though I enjoy it for extroverted reasons I guess.

I think it does express inner aggression in a jock type of way, but its force can also awaken you spiritually / emotionally in a way other music can't.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:20 PM

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81. "Generally agree but..."
In response to Reply # 79


          

...I'm not sure I'd call Quorthon a true introvert. Musically, he was since he was alone and he was never even remotely interested in being part of a scene. Even in sweden and stockholm, when members of younger metal-bands ran into him and threw up the horns on some "Wer'e not worthy"-shit, he seemed embarassed from what I've heard.

At the same time however, dude was into hockey and pussy and was a frequent guest at Cafe Opera and other fancy bars in Stockholm. I think he wanted to keep his music and that persona separate from his personal life which by most accounts was pretty normal even if I guess he might have been some kind of loner. Actually, he recalled running into famous director Jonas Åkerlund who of course was an OG Bathory-member and Jonas asked him what he was doing musically now and he said "Bathory" and Jonas cracked up because he had no idea about the cult-status of that band, he said something like "What? You are still doing that shit?". That's how far removed he was from mainstream culture in sweden and he never even remotely tried to become a part of it, not even the underground metal scene...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 12:23 PM

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82. "That's fascinating."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

I'd love to read a biography of that guy but I'm pretty sure it would at best be 75% true. He was a natural-born dissembler (for whatever personal reasons). I may be reading a bit much into the fact that Bathory was basically just him, with a few other guys floating in and out as, essentially, session musicians. However, I think it's not as theoretical that most Bathory FANS tend to be introverts.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 12:56 PM

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84. "You're being generous about the quality of my thinking."
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jul-30-13 12:57 PM by Buck

  

          

>However, a lot of power fantasies also appeal primarily to
>introverts. I mean, the main readers of Conan books and other
>heroic high fantasy are not usually alpha males.

True. Kinda blows my theory out of the water, in fact.

>I feel the
>same is true of most listeners of Amon Amarth (as well as
>other war-themed bands like Bolt Thrower); in fact metal in
>general is more of an introvert's genre. It wasn't until
>after the popular ascendance of Metallica and (even more so)
>Pantera circa the early 90s that it really seemed to become
>cool among good-looking, musclebound dudes to listen to
>extreme metal. I feel like true alpha males are mostly into
>metal for an aural representation of their built-in aggression
>and fuck-all-y'all attitude - hence why so many redneck jocks
>like Pantera (with its extremely literal visualization of a
>face being punched on "Vulgar Display") but are not so much
>into Unleashed or mid-period Bathory.

Yeah, you just described me, basically. I am in fact, a (slightly) redneck jock who looooooooooves Pantera. (Although the "popular ascendance of Metallica" is precisely when I stopped listening to them--I don't want soft introspection, James, I want to ride the goddamn lightning!) But "built-in aggression and fuck-all-y'all attitude?" Check and check.

I think it might be worth drawing a line, particular in the '80s and early '90s, between US/UK bands and European bands. Where I grew up, in rural Virginia, we didn't hear ANYTHING from Europe. We didn't even know bands such as Bathory existed, for the most part. We had thrash, Florida death, Motorhead and Maiden, and that was about it. Nobody, to my knowledge, knew anything about the Scandinavian scene. I imagine folks in big cities knew what was going on, but out in the sticks, not at all.

>Bathory is also a good case-in-point here, since Quorthon is
>one of the trailblazers of both Satan metal AND Viking metal.
>Early Bathory is basically the prototype for Norwegian black
>metal that came later, and Amon Amarth wouldn't exist without
>mid-period Bathory (though sonically they're not totally
>similar). And both incarnations were run by a true introvert
>- a guy who had a one-man band before it was remotely
>acceptable to do so, and even lied to the media about it to
>make it seem like he was one of the slightly-cooler kids (i.e.
>guys in a real band, with a real drummer).

Yeah, I'll buy that. And there's plenty of overlap in the Venn diagram of introverted and extroverted here. But perhaps you're correct when you say...

>in fact metal in general
>is more of an introvert's genre.

...at least now, in 2013. Nowadays when I go to shows I find comfy spots to sit in the back of the venue, on account of being old and creaky, which makes for good people watching. Which I did a lot of last night (Bodom, AA, Emmure, Job for a Cowboy, a couple others), and two things were clear: one, I wasn't the oldest guy there, but I was surely in the 98th percentile; and two, 98% of the crowd was quite obviously in the introverted, not-popular-at-school category.

So I gotta do more thinking about this.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 01:15 PM

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85. "So the germans didn't register at all?"
In response to Reply # 84
Tue Jul-30-13 01:17 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

Here in sweden, they were obviously not Big 4 status but Kreator at least was *definitely* Testament or Exodus-status in terms of popularity, possibly above; Sodom were not far behind. Those bands were very important because they sounded harsher and more "proto-death" in delivery than MOST of the big american acts... They were definitely important as "threshold" bands for me and I still dig their shit even if it lacks the refinement of US thrash (well, before 89 or so; after that, Kreator got quite slick) which isn't even a minus to me...

EDIT:YOu didn't even dig King Diamond (denmark/sweden)? I thought he/they were huge (well, metal-circles) in the US...

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 01:34 PM

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88. "Again, maybe in the cities."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Not even the most metal guy in my high school, the guy who played guitar, smoked, wore metal patches on his denim jacket, and introduced me to weed, was checking for European bands. We just didn't know about Kreator or anybody like that. We were pretty isolated.

>Here in sweden, they were obviously not Big 4 status but
>Kreator at least was *definitely* Testament or Exodus-status
>in terms of popularity, possibly above; Sodom were not far
>behind. Those bands were very important because they sounded
>harsher and more "proto-death" in delivery than MOST of the
>big american acts... They were definitely important as
>"threshold" bands for me and I still dig their shit even if it
>lacks the refinement of US thrash (well, before 89 or so;
>after that, Kreator got quite slick) which isn't even a minus
>to me...
>
>EDIT:YOu didn't even dig King Diamond (denmark/sweden)? I
>thought he/they were huge (well, metal-circles) in the US...

We knew about Mercyful Fate, but I can't recall if I knew anyone who actually owned an album. Maybe a poster who grew up in a more cosmopolitan area had a different experience.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 01:45 PM

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91. "RE: You're being generous about the quality of my thinking."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          


>True. Kinda blows my theory out of the water, in fact.

It's why I'm here. This is fun to talk about anyway, so thanks for kicking off an interesting subject.

>Yeah, you just described me, basically. I am in fact, a
>(slightly) redneck jock who looooooooooves Pantera. (Although
>the "popular ascendance of Metallica" is precisely when I
>stopped listening to them--I don't want soft introspection,
>James, I want to ride the goddamn lightning!) But "built-in
>aggression and fuck-all-y'all attitude?" Check and check.

Yup. And nothing wrong with that either! But I definitely fall more to the introspective, introverted music geek type, so after a brief dalliance with them in high school (when I was still figuring out what I was, or what I might turn out to be), I lost interest in Pantera, and tough guy metal in general. It just seems like a less-interesting thing to do with a genre that has larger, funkier potential. It's nerdy and weird, I know, but give me gore lyrics, college freshman-level philosophizing, Satan worship, or most anything else over "step to me and you get punched, SUCKA!" I still do like a lot of "Cowboys," anyway, but after that they lose me.

>I think it might be worth drawing a line, particular in the
>'80s and early '90s, between US/UK bands and European bands.
>Where I grew up, in rural Virginia, we didn't hear ANYTHING
>from Europe. We didn't even know bands such as Bathory
>existed, for the most part. We had thrash, Florida death,
>Motorhead and Maiden, and that was about it. Nobody, to my
>knowledge, knew anything about the Scandinavian scene. I
>imagine folks in big cities knew what was going on, but out in
>the sticks, not at all.

True of a lot of places, I think. Some trve kvltists bitch about the internet because now everything's so accessible, maaaaan, and you don't EARN YOUR KNOWLEDGE. Whatever. The upside - that you can explore all the regional scenes, hear obscure demos, and crawl down into so many nooks and crannies - is so massive to me. When I originally listened to metal, pre-internet, I was basically limited to what people thrust in front of me. So, again: Metallica and the others in the Big Four; Queensryche and Maiden (the Bruce Dickinson years); a little US death metal, particularly Cannibal Corpse and Carcass; and rather randomly, Napalm Death. I ran into a few other odds and ends during the brief period that I read Kerrang and Metal Hammer, but it was so much work and there was still so much I knew nothing about. When I got back into it some years later, the internet opened my eyes in a big way. In fact, I would have been lost in all of the above conversation in my pre-internet years. Even though I was into metal, I wasn't truly All The Way Into Metal. Few were... it took a whole lot of effort to do that - trading demo tapes with guys overseas, buying zines, learning to read Swedish just to get good recommendations, etc.

>...at least now, in 2013. Nowadays when I go to shows I find
>comfy spots to sit in the back of the venue, on account of
>being old and creaky, which makes for good people watching.
>Which I did a lot of last night (Bodom, AA, Emmure, Job for a
>Cowboy, a couple others), and two things were clear: one, I
>wasn't the oldest guy there, but I was surely in the 98th
>percentile; and two, 98% of the crowd was quite obviously in
>the introverted, not-popular-at-school category.

Yeah, I think the internet facilitated that, too! It seems like metalheads used to be a mix of burnouts and introverts, but a lot of the burnouts moved on to become juggalos or nu-metal fans or whatever, while the introvert crowd just grew and grew as an ideal tool for the facilitation of "metal studies" became available...

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 02:23 PM

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100. "It's fascinating to me."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

>It's why I'm here. This is fun to talk about anyway, so
>thanks for kicking off an interesting subject.

And in the Lesson, no less.

>Yup. And nothing wrong with that either! But I definitely
>fall more to the introspective, introverted music geek type,
>so after a brief dalliance with them in high school (when I
>was still figuring out what I was, or what I might turn out to
>be), I lost interest in Pantera, and tough guy metal in
>general. It just seems like a less-interesting thing to do
>with a genre that has larger, funkier potential. It's nerdy
>and weird, I know, but give me gore lyrics, college
>freshman-level philosophizing, Satan worship, or most anything
>else over "step to me and you get punched, SUCKA!" I still do
>like a lot of "Cowboys," anyway, but after that they lose me.

Out of curiosity, where'd you grow up? Wondering if there's a regional thing at work here. Pantera has always seemed to me to be VERY southern/redneck in a way that non-southerners/rednecks might not appreciate.

>True of a lot of places, I think. Some trve kvltists bitch
>about the internet because now everything's so accessible,
>maaaaan, and you don't EARN YOUR KNOWLEDGE. Whatever. The
>upside - that you can explore all the regional scenes, hear
>obscure demos, and crawl down into so many nooks and crannies
>- is so massive to me. When I originally listened to metal,
>pre-internet, I was basically limited to what people thrust in
>front of me. So, again: Metallica and the others in the Big
>Four; Queensryche and Maiden (the Bruce Dickinson years); a
>little US death metal, particularly Cannibal Corpse and
>Carcass; and rather randomly, Napalm Death.

Exactly.

>I ran into a few
>other odds and ends during the brief period that I read
>Kerrang and Metal Hammer, but it was so much work and there
>was still so much I knew nothing about.

Pre-internet, they were just names on a page. Like I said in another post, we'd heard, vaguely, of Mercyful Fate, but we didn't know where we could actually hear them.

>When I got back into
>it some years later, the internet opened my eyes in a big way.

Yep. Exposed me to all manner of stuff. Led to my rediscovery of metal, really.

>In fact, I would have been lost in all of the above
>conversation in my pre-internet years.

Yep.

>learning to read Swedish
>just to get good recommendations, etc.

Ha! I've thought of doing the same thing. But as far as I can tell, all Swedes speak perfect English, so there's that. I met Katatonia backstage at a tiny club gig a few years ago and had a longish conversation with Per Eriksson, and afterward I thought about how surreal it is, post-Internet, to be standing in a dive bar in Louisville, Kentucky, having a lovely chat about amplifiers, in fluent English, with a tiny guy from Bumfuck, Sweden, who goes by the name "Sodomizer." I mean, whatever else the Internet is/does, that scene doesn't happen without it.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 02:51 PM

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103. "But this is quite an exaggeration:"
In response to Reply # 100


          


>Ha! I've thought of doing the same thing. But as far as I can
>tell, all Swedes speak perfect English, so there's that. I met
>Katatonia backstage at a tiny club gig a few years ago and had
>a longish conversation with Per Eriksson, and afterward I
>thought about how surreal it is, post-Internet, to be standing
>in a dive bar in Louisville, Kentucky, having a lovely chat
>about amplifiers, in fluent English, with a tiny guy from
>Bumfuck, Sweden, who goes by the name "Sodomizer." I mean,
>whatever else the Internet is/does, that scene doesn't happen
>without it.

I don't want to sound as this uber-metal guy because I'm really not but Gothenburg is not that big of a city especially by US standards and we still had a store-Dolores-that specialized in metal (and comic-books!) and sold demos at the counter (mostly swedish stuff but also the first Paradise Lost and Gorefest demos and probably other shit as well from abroad I don't remember) and a "regular" record-store that had a great metal-selection. I used to read Metal Forces, Metal Hammer and Kerrang! (none were exactly obscure fanzines) and especially Metal Forces was amazing; I could go down to the stores with a list of bands to listen to and a writer like Borivoj Krgin-who later became a nu metal fan and started Blabbermoth-had amazuing taste in those years. Also, there were budget-comps like "Speed Kills" that generally included a shitload of cool bands for a small price. And swedish national radio had a weekly show called Rock Box that always played a lot of cool stuff even if most of the airtime was devoted to bands like Whitesnake (who I dig BTW; even the big album)

I don't know, maybe I was a total dork but it was not *that* difficult to be up on metal without the Internet. I find it strange that USA was that backwards but I guess it was different in the smaller cities like you said.

Also, underground swedish bands could tour the US long before the internet and play fairly big crowds and with a good reception even if they were mostly opening acts. I know Entombed was a headliner though pretty much from the getgo. Death metal in particular reached its peak commercially in the early 90's both in the US and elsewhere and the bands were touring and even selling quite well.

Basically, I don't think internet has made that much of a difference overall; it still takes work but reading a magazine and going to a record-store vs. the internet scenarion-I don't think the difference is too massive honestly even if it has made it easier for smaller bands to make themselves heard (then again, it's also easier for them to just disappear amongst a mass of like-minded acts)...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 03:15 PM

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108. "The big difference, I think, is the record store part."
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

You could read about all kinds of stuff if you sought out the magazines - I never laid eyes on Metal Forces but Metal Hammer and Kerrang! were certainly known to me. And there would be the occasional oddity on Headbanger's Ball. But finding a store that carried ANYTHING other than the Big Four and Iron Maiden was a trick. I lived in what I'd classify as a mid-sized midwestern city - population 30 or 40 thousand. Not a metropolis, but more than a stoplight and a general store. We had several record stores. However, they were all chains: Musicland (became Sam Goody), Karma Records. Musicland carried literally almost nothing that wasn't on a major label; I think the only remotely weird thing I ever saw or bought there was the Goo Goo Dolls' third album (when they were still sounding like a much punkier Replacements). That was released by Metal Blade, for whatever reason. But actual underground metal - no. Karma was more inclined toward smaller labels, but for whatever reason I saw very little there outside of US thrash and early alt-rock (Sub Pop was a label they carried a bunch of stuff from). I could buy the Afghan Whigs there before they were famous, but Earache records? Mostly not.

And I think that dilemma was common across a lot of the US outside the major cities. Which is how I ended up with a small collection of also-rans like Helloween and Fates Warning, but never stumbled into death metal in any meaningful way until I was in college. It turns out college towns have the kind of record stores that will actually stock Cannibal Corpse and Pungent Stench CDs, and rebuy them to sell used as well, based solely on the cover art and the prurient interests of their customers.

Basically, it took me a lot of years to spider my way through a few metal sub-genres, and even after that time I had mostly just hit a bunch of random points of interest that I found accidentally (like getting a promo copy of a Fear Factory record at my college radio station). I wasn't able to explore anything exhaustively because the channels would dry up as soon as I got into them. And I think a lot of US people had this experience, because a lot more of our population lives in towns like my hometown than New York, Chicago, L.A.... or even Indianapolis.

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Aug-02-13 01:27 PM

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123. "Yeah, and it wasn't just your typical record-store either..."
In response to Reply # 108
Fri Aug-02-13 01:28 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

They had a record-label as well that released the original editions of the EP's by Grotesque (I know it has been reissued as an album but the OG was an EP), At the Gates and Liers In Wait so maybe that store was a bad example because it was clearly not typical.

Useless bonus-trivia: That Liers In Wait EP was ALL over cut-out bins and second-hand stores here in Gothenburg for practically nothing for the entire 90's. Imagine my surprise a bit later when the original copy-it was reissued by another label later I think- was going for big sums on ebay. Seriously, I could have picked up 50 copies of that record for nothing and made money later.

I always thought it was cool as fuck but I had started to get into Beefheart and free-jazz when it was released; I guess most people just thought it sounded like a mess and either sold it or didn't buy it at all. In retrospect, it's very ahead of its time I think and it seems to get the revisionist love it deserves....

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Sat Aug-03-13 11:40 AM

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128. "That EP is great."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Pity they didn't do anything else.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 03:46 PM

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109. "RE: But this is quite an exaggeration:"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>I don't want to sound as this uber-metal guy because I'm
>really not but Gothenburg is not that big of a city especially
>by US standards

I'm looking at Wikipedia and seeing that Gothenburg has a population of a little more than a half-million. By contrast, Danville, Virginia had at the time I lived there had about 50,000 people, and I went to high school in a town of 20,000. The closest city of Gothenburg's size was either Norfolk/Newport News, a four-hour drive east, or Charlotte, N.C., four hours south. For us, going to the big city meant going to Greensboro, N.C., where there was a Peaches store.

>and we still had a store-Dolores-that
>specialized in metal (and comic-books!)

Not a chance where I grew up. You might make that work by specializing in country music, but not metal.

>and sold demos at the
>counter (mostly swedish stuff but also the first Paradise Lost
>and Gorefest demos and probably other shit as well from abroad
>I don't remember) and a "regular" record-store that had a
>great metal-selection. I used to read Metal Forces, Metal
>Hammer and Kerrang! (none were exactly obscure fanzines) and
>especially Metal Forces was amazing; I could go down to the
>stores with a list of bands to listen to and a writer like
>Borivoj Krgin-who later became a nu metal fan and started
>Blabbermoth-had amazuing taste in those years. Also, there
>were budget-comps like "Speed Kills" that generally included a
>shitload of cool bands for a small price. And swedish national
>radio had a weekly show called Rock Box that always played a
>lot of cool stuff even if most of the airtime was devoted to
>bands like Whitesnake (who I dig BTW; even the big album)
>
>I don't know, maybe I was a total dork but it was not *that*
>difficult to be up on metal without the Internet. I find it
>strange that USA was that backwards but I guess it was
>different in the smaller cities like you said.

I think you're forgetting the sheer size of the U.S., and the vast differences in culture. Where I grew up, we had tobacco fields, Baptist churches, and used car dealerships. We feared God, loved Jesus, and chewed tobacco. Hank Williams, Jr. was probably tied with Lynyrd Skynyrd for the single most popular musical act ever among area high schoolers (until Guns n' Roses came along). We went to Washington, D.C., on school trips (five hours), but for most kids, a place like New York might as well have been a foreign country.

So no, there wasn't great metal selections in the stores. There was American and British metal, but it was the standard stuff. We had Slayer and Priest, and we were happy. Now, I wasn't (still not) a REAL music nerd, and I'm sure there were a few kids around who made the effort to dig through the back pages and special order stuff from overseas, but that was considerably more effort than I ever put forth. Anything east of England just wasn't on the cultural radar, and we weren't exposed to it. I never learned about Entombed, to use your example, because I had never met anybody who had ever learned about Entombed, at least until I went to college.

It occurs to me now that what we had was Headbanger's Ball, on MTV. Their playlist, in the late '80s, say, probably best defines the extent of a typical kid from Danville's metal knowledge.

>Also, underground swedish bands could tour the US long before
>the internet and play fairly big crowds

They never would have come anywhere near southern Virginia. Richmond, maybe, but again, that's almost 100 miles (um...160 km) from my hometown.

>Basically, I don't think internet has made that much of a
>difference overall; it still takes work but reading a magazine
>and going to a record-store vs. the internet scenarion-I don't
>think the difference is too massive honestly even if it has
>made it easier for smaller bands to make themselves heard
>(then again, it's also easier for them to just disappear
>amongst a mass of like-minded acts)...

I don't think you should underestimate the significance of going to youtube and instantly listening to pretty much any musical act on the planet, for free.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Tue Jul-30-13 03:53 PM

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111. "Yeah, all of that."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

Your experience is so similar to mine that it's scary. Marion, IN was not Southern and was slightly larger/less country, but otherwise, that's all spot on. And there were a whole lot of metal fans in those towns listening to 'tallica and wearing Eddie shirts.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 03:56 PM

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113. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>listening to 'tallica
>and wearing Eddie shirts.

Bingo.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Aug-02-13 01:21 PM

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122. "Yeah, I apologize..."
In response to Reply # 109


          

It's easy to fuck up when all you see on Tv here is like New York and LA and shit. In sweden, there's obviously a SHUTLOAD of tiny cities as well but the distance to the big cities are obviously not as big. Actually, the members of Grave-who lived on the island Gotland of all places-mentioned in the swedish death metal book that they had to take the boat to Stockholm just to be able to buy metal at all so I should have known better; maybe Gothenburg isn't the place one should use as a norm.

Thanks for making me feel "urban" on the Lesson though!

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Fri Aug-02-13 02:05 PM

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124. "No reason to apologize."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

Easy to get that impression from TV/movies.

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
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Tue Jul-30-13 02:57 PM

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105. "Midwest."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          


>Out of curiosity, where'd you grow up? Wondering if there's a
>regional thing at work here. Pantera has always seemed to me
>to be VERY southern/redneck in a way that
>non-southerners/rednecks might not appreciate.

I'm from small-town Indiana (still in Indianapolis, though I'm moving very soon to Georgia). So definitely no stranger to redneckiness and a slight Southern tinge, too. I tend toward the nerdy/intellectual side, but one of my closest cousins from the same hometown is about as redneck as it gets: beat up his abusive stepfather in high school and moved between a couple relatives' houses for the last two years of school; joined the army as soon as humanly possible and fought in the Gulf War; went directly from the military to being a prison guard, and is exactly as scary-looking as you'd expect given that career path. Yet this is the guy who introduced me to Queensryche, Megadeth, and more.

A lot of my other metal resources in high school were yer basic redneck burnouts from broken homes - the sort of guys who would be playing D&D with you one day, getting expelled for drug possession the next, and disappear off the face of the earth by the weekend. I first heard a lot of bands through those dudes, often just by seeing them printed on a t-shirt. One of those guys was in shop with me and first exposed me to the Exodus cover of "Lowrider" - no idea why that still sticks with me, but it does. He kind of looked like Dave Mustaine too, with frizzier hair and acne.

--

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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Tue Jul-30-13 03:52 PM

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110. "All of this:"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>I'm from small-town Indiana (still in Indianapolis, though I'm
>moving very soon to Georgia). So definitely no stranger to
>redneckiness and a slight Southern tinge, too. I tend toward
>the nerdy/intellectual side, but one of my closest cousins
>from the same hometown is about as redneck as it gets: beat up
>his abusive stepfather in high school and moved between a
>couple relatives' houses for the last two years of school;
>joined the army as soon as humanly possible and fought in the
>Gulf War; went directly from the military to being a prison
>guard, and is exactly as scary-looking as you'd expect given
>that career path. Yet this is the guy who introduced me to
>Queensryche, Megadeth, and more.
>
>A lot of my other metal resources in high school were yer
>basic redneck burnouts from broken homes - the sort of guys
>who would be playing D&D with you one day, getting expelled
>for drug possession the next, and disappear off the face of
>the earth by the weekend. I first heard a lot of bands
>through those dudes, often just by seeing them printed on a
>t-shirt. One of those guys was in shop with me and first
>exposed me to the Exodus cover of "Lowrider" - no idea why
>that still sticks with me, but it does. He kind of looked
>like Dave Mustaine too, with frizzier hair and acne.

See my reply to Jakob about southern VA. Same deal.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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83. "LOL, I've actually never been a big fan of viking metal..."
In response to Reply # 78


          

I prefer the satanic Bathory vs. the viking one. My favourite "viking"-band is probably Unleashed but of the "big 4" swedish death metal band from the Stockholm (well, Grave was from Gotland but whatever...), old school scene they are my least favourite by a large margin. I wouldn't call me an introverted dork by any stretch though; I like AC/DC!

I agree though that Black metal fans fit that stereotype to a t and are often the metal-equivalent to sad goth kids; just miserable losers who wants to be "evil" as a form of compensation. Just my experience but there were a lot of those guys in sweden. The death metal heads on the other hand *were* generally quite regular guys but you have to remember it was a genuine youth movement here in sweden in the early 90's-perfectly comparable with punk even if few would make the comparison. Shit, I think every high school in the big cities had at least one death metal band (mine had At the Gates (well, the Björler twins) and some younger guys I went to class with who did a demo but whose name escapes me; they were quite good and did the Entombed/Dismember-style but thrashier which was relatively rare here in Gothenburg)...

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
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86. "Adding on to my previous post, above:"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>I agree though that Black metal fans fit that stereotype to a
>t and are often the metal-equivalent to sad goth kids; just
>miserable losers who wants to be "evil" as a form of
>compensation. Just my experience but there were a lot of those
>guys in sweden.

In the absence of any knowledge of black metal, outside of Venom, who we all thought really sucked, the miserable goth kids had to stick with goth.

>The death metal heads on the other hand *were*
>generally quite regular guys

Which is my sense of the American scene in the '80s. Metallica weren't weird loser kids. James was a beer-drinking redneck, and Lars was a tennis player, and as far as anyone could tell, Cliff was the coolest dude ever born. Anthrax were just typical guidos from NYC. Chuck Schuldiner seemed like the most well-adjusted, popular guy around. And nobody listened to "Cowboys From Hell" to express their disaffection from mainstream culture; they listened to pound some brews and raise some hell.

But maybe in other places that wasn't the case, or maybe it just changed later.

>but you have to remember it was a
>genuine youth movement here in sweden in the early
>90's-perfectly comparable with punk even if few would make the
>comparison.

I maintain a great love for the Gothenburg bands, even if they're still making the same album over and over and over....I'd have loved to have been aware of that scene when it was still new.

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
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87. "no mention of Kirk huh? lol"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          


>Which is my sense of the American scene in the '80s. Metallica
>weren't weird loser kids. James was a beer-drinking redneck,
>and Lars was a tennis player, and as far as anyone could tell,
>Cliff was the coolest dude ever born.

  

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Buck
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89. "Well, name a legendary, iconic Kirk solo."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

While you think about that, I'm gonna go listen to "Rust in Peace."

  

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T Reynolds
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92. "Rust In Peace is still incredible. Mustaine is a ginger beast. "
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d4ui9q7eDM

but you're bugging if you don't think Hammett has memorable solos though

There's lists on youtube, even
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPE0SJvA5To


  

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Buck
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95. "Well, I don't play guitar, so...."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>but you're bugging if you don't think Hammett has memorable
>solos though
>
>There's lists on youtube, even
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPE0SJvA5To

Maybe he's better regarded among guitarists. I've always just thought he was pretty much limited to weedly-weedly.

  

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dalecooper
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96. "If anything I'd say he's less well-regarded by guitarists."
In response to Reply # 95
Tue Jul-30-13 02:08 PM by dalecooper

  

          

Most of them think he's kind of overrated. Not bad, but not as good as non-musicians seem to think. He and Lars both get some undeserved love just for playing in the world's biggest metal band, when Kirk is just a good guitarist with a crutch he loves too much (the wah pedal) and Lars is actually not that great a thrash drummer at all.

That band is truly bigger than the sum of its parts. But most of the great ones are.

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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125. "I always liked his solos..."
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Aug-02-13 09:30 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

They were memorable which is more than I can say about the solos Anthrax or-LOL!-Slayer made; they are more compatible with ''classic rock'' values of what a good guitar-solo means and honestly, so are my tastes. A lot of metalheads are into how fast you play or what type of obscure scales you use and I canät really relate to that mindset (anymore). I think Kirk's solos in songs like "Sanatarium" (a fragment I even used for a latin-house song I did in the 90's) or "Creeping death" are stellar.

That being said, the guys in Megadeth (=Mustaine and Chris Poland or-ESPECIALLY Marty Friedman*, NOT the dude who played on "So far...."-he sucked!) CLEARLY had the best solos in more "mainstream" thrash; they knew it as well and loved to emphasize it. I mean, the last two minutes of "Hangar 18":there's no way Hammett could fuck with that...

Of course, there was a lot of other thrash soloists who did nice solos (the Exodus guys, Andreas Kisser in Sepultura, Michael Shiffringer in Destruction, the dude in Testament etc.) but I can't expect classic rock magazines or various guitar mags to know these guys so I don't get mad when Hammett appears on lists because some of his solos are dope.

Lars Ulrich on "Best Drummer" lists though? AAAAAARGH!!!!


*Anyone heardCacaphony's "Speed metal symphony" with Friedman and some other guy wanking away over thrash riffs for 30 minutes? One of the funniest albums I own. Only in the 80's...

  

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Buck
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126. "Jason Becker. I had that on cassette."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>*Anyone heardCacaphony's "Speed metal symphony" with Friedman
>and some other guy wanking away over thrash riffs for 30
>minutes? One of the funniest albums I own. Only in the
>80's...

  

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dalecooper
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129. "That's completely fair"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

Hammett did play some really memorable solos - when I think of "Enter Sandman" I actually think of that wah solo before I even think of the big, dumb riff or the big, dumb lyrics. His technical ability is not exceptional (though he's not terrible by any means), but as far as playing something you'll want to hear and remember later, he certainly beats anyone who has ever played a solo on a Slayer album.

The Megadeth guitarists (almost all of them) are the whole package though, as you say. Great talents and a good ear for laying down something that isn't just wanking and fits the song.

--

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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130. "Guitarsolos in more extreme metal is a difficult issue overall I think....."
In response to Reply # 129


          

On the one hand, if the guitarists try to play something more memorable or melodic, it can feel that you suddenly steps into an Iron Maiden-album or something and it can compromize the intensity.

In the specific case of Metallica, I don't think there ever was a problem because they really weren't extreme like that but on records like Obituary's "Cause of death" and several solos on the latter Dismember-albums, it can become quite weird I think.

On the other hand, the type of chaotic, post-Slayer styled solos that fit so well in this type of music are very rarely something you look forward to in the songs the way you do solos in other types of music; basically, they are more contrasting structural elements who are necessary because of that than they are meanigful, memorable statements that works on their own terms.

I never really had problems with the fucked-up guitarsolos in a lot of thrash- and death-metal but at the same time, if I was forced to make a list of my favorite solos, I don't think a single solo like that would make the list and that's kind of sad...

  

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Buck
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131. "Fredrik Thordendal."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

>basically, they are more
>contrasting structural elements who are necessary because of
>that than they are meanigful, memorable statements that works
>on their own terms.

I agree in principle, but Fredrik IMO is the exception that proves the rule; his solos often function as both.

>I never really had problems with the fucked-up guitarsolos in
>a lot of thrash- and death-metal but at the same time, if I
>was forced to make a list of my favorite solos, I don't think
>a single solo like that would make the list and that's kind of
>sad...

And he'd have about five of my top-10.

  

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dalecooper
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94. "Reply #91"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

I don't think all metalheads were introverts in the early and mid 80s, but it was predominantly introverts and burnouts - not that many popular kids of whatever background. Metal just wasn't popular music (not quite yet, though it was on the cusp) so it would have been weird for popular kids to gravitate to it in the era of synth pop and glam rock. It may have been different for Europeans though (like Lars, come to think of it) because their regard for metal has always been a bit different from ours in the states.

--

  

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Buck
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90. "Aight, your single all-time favorite metal track:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Any sub-genre, any era.

Yeah, this is absurdly difficult.

  

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dalecooper
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93. "Well that's just insane."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

But here it is anyway!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehsl1bpEInQ

--

  

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T Reynolds
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97. "Suicidal Tendencies - You Can't Bring Me Down"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxcJW6bs5os

Not the best metal song ever, but I gotta go with the hometown boys

  

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Binlahab
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99. "too ez, drill sgt!"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_84C3fpuI

creeping death - metallica

AHHHHHHHH!!!! *slaps own face dumb hard, & starts stomping around cube*


does it even matter?

  

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Buck
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101. "Mine:"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

http://youtu.be/D-PaT0Bgj-Y

I fucking love Opeth. Like, with all my heart.










"Heritage" never happened, btw.

  

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murph71
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107. "Dammit...I can't choose one....."
In response to Reply # 90


          

My 3---Different genres.....


Pop/hair metal....The best of that genre....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt2Y78VgfNQ

Metallica ---probably the greatest cover I've ever heard from a metal band....They made it THEIR SONG....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u-HCHCuHMg

That Nu Metal from the early 90's...This shit always gets me going....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFqg5wAuFk

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Buck
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112. "Cheating, but solid choices."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

  

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Binlahab
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114. "damn i cant front on NONE of these LOL"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

esp that def leppard...when i realized their drummer had 1 arm i was blown


does it even matter?

  

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Buck
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115. "He still had two on that track."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>esp that def leppard...when i realized their drummer had 1
>arm i was blown

  

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murph71
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119. "RE: He still had two on that track."
In response to Reply # 115
Tue Jul-30-13 09:20 PM by murph71

          

>>esp that def leppard...when i realized their drummer had 1
>>arm i was blown

True, although he played with two arms on that track, to see dude play with one arm live on the Hysteria tour was surreal...He learned to use both feet to supplement the other arm....Dude showed a lot of heart...But more than that he pulled it off....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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murph71
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Tue Jul-30-13 09:32 PM

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120. "RE: He still had two on that track."
In response to Reply # 115
Tue Jul-30-13 09:37 PM by murph71

          




Which is why its even more amazing to see them do the song live after his car accident (5:36 mark)....

Rick Allen was on some inspiring shit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7YVvsBnf64

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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Stringer Bell
Member since Mar 15th 2004
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118. "Krallice - "Dimensional Bleedthrough""
In response to Reply # 90


          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBeJO6rZX9A

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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127. "PROBABLY this one:"
In response to Reply # 90


          

Black Sabbath-Symptom of the universe:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXgU2cGqlLM

While I *generally* don't really think of 70's Sabbath as metal (tm), this song definitely is, complete with intense proto-thrash riffing and everything. Admittedly, the last two minutes of loose acoustic hippie-jamming may showcase Sabbath's roots in the 60's a bit too much for maximum metal-vibe but I always LOED that section; it's like a song within the song and it's dope!

Also note Ozzy's vocals:while he has his trademark nasal whine, there's also an aggression and intensity present he never really had before (or after). "Sabotage" is FAR from my favorite Sabbath-album but Ozzy never sang better IMO, to me, that's his record...

Otherwise, I find this impossible to do without qualifying subgenres but I'll give it a shot later with some favorites in various styles...

  

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Binlahab
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98. "GATDAMNY! this motherfucker blew up! LOL nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


does it even matter?

  

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Buck
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121. "Emperor reuniting for shows in '14, headlining Wacken."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=94218

I would like to go, but it's a long, long ways away.

  

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Big Kuntry
Member since May 09th 2010
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132. "GORGUTS!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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133. "I haven't head it yet..."
In response to Reply # 132


          

"Obscura" is a stone-cold classic and the first two more conventional albums are dope too even if the debut in particular is a bit bland and cookie-cutter like a lot of Roadrunner-stuff from that era; seriously, that label kind of killed the genre in a way even if many records are good in retrospect (BTW, hard to believe in retrospect that was the same band that did "Obscura" even if i think many musicians were new on the latter).

I haven't really been in the mood for more avantgarde, quirky Death Metal this year but instead been a bit more primal in mood overall for *all* genres not called free-jazz so I don't know if this one will hit me. At the same time, maybe it will put me in a more avantgarde mood; I'm looking forward to hearing it even if I won't force me to listen to it-I want to hear it when I feel more receptible; I often suspect the reason a lot of people dismiss albums in whatever genre is because they are not in the mood for that type of music at that time, yet force themselves to listen just to have an opinion...

  

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Buck
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134. "New Carcass streaming."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://youtu.be/cMzPxHieFmU

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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135. "Shit's ok..."
In response to Reply # 134


          

It sounds a LOT like the third album "Necroticism..." to me but it also has the Heartwork "melo-death"/rock-vibe.

I am (well was) a huge fan but at the sae time, my favorite Carcass is actually "Symphonies of Sickness" (actually, the punky debut is amazing too even if the production on the first 9-10 tracks obscures it) and that old-school UK grindcore vibe that was present there just isn't there anymore.

Actually, this is a textbook example of a once revolutionay, practically genre-defining band (=gore.grind) just getting too accomplished for their own good. Not necessarily a bad thing if you make music on this level:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7oGGud2Jk4 but I heard no songs like that. Oh well, shit is still dope for a returning band, I just wish they would have went further back aesthetically because this band was once punk- and sick as fuck and a life.chanign experience for anyone who caught them live (like me in '89) when they were in "sick-mode"; this fancy and accomplished early 90's death metal really has very little to do with what made this band a life-changer back in the day...

Whatever, this still fall under the category "strong comeback" to me... Props!!!

  

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Fructose Soda
Member since Feb 19th 2012
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Sun Sep-29-13 09:28 AM

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136. "Necroticism was my introduction to Carcass."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

So, I'll always use that album as a point of reference.
Opened the death metal floodgates for me.
Before that, I was only into Metallica, Faith No More, Guns'N'Roses.
I really like the melodic nature of Heartwork, as well.
After the mid '90s, I fell out of love with Carcass.
Good that they're playing again, tho.

  

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Fructose Soda
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Mon Sep-30-13 09:11 AM

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138. "the best metal album in 2013, so far."
In response to Reply # 134
Mon Sep-30-13 09:12 AM by Fructose Soda

  

          

And it'll probably stay that way.
Its not better than their iconic albums of the early '90s, but its good to hear them back at it again.
Short riffs, decent melodies. Nothing mindblowing, like when they use to change up the time signatures and chords simultaneously.
The song titles are funny, tho: "The Granulating Dark Satanic Mills"?
LOL
Some of the titles look like USDA food inspection reports.
Cheesy? Yes. But the music is pretty good.
It all sounds like material they recorded right before Heartwork, but decided not to release it.

  

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