I'm seeing the term "Stolen" thrown around more and more

Art is supposed to be a continuous dialog with the past, with what was created before. Its a living dialog where the call and response take the form of artifacts (paintings, songs, writing)

Whats the definite line where an artifact (i.e. song, ) is being influenced by the past vs. outright stealing or "lifting"?

In today's climate I'm not sure if jazz would be able to have it's rapid call and response quality between the artists or if it would all be labeled stealing/lifting


Help me see the argument

Edit -

Some examples:

Prince "Stole" from Rick James and James Brown
Michael Jackson "stole" from Donna Summer

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

If today's culture-police and copyright laws were running things in those eras

...there was a very popular contingent of *cultural-police prevalent here in the states: I think their name was...




*hol'up,...lemme 'member they name right quick, Sun....






oh yeah, the KKK, muthafukka!

But don't let sump'n like that fuck you up(c)Chris Rock


Come on, Jon.
I mean, on one valid hand, I can kinda see where you was *tryna go widdit, but uhhm.....









NAW SUN!








The *fatalistic racial hostility that Jazz ever-so-resiliently rose above is Legendary and I, as a Jazz musician, ain't gonna let this slight revision go unchecked. Your heart is in the right place tho, but naw.

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

with what I was saying lol

But yeah pretty much everything you said is true...just think my point wooshed to the left while you were leaning to the right

Dead ass serious:

And if so, please clarify for me because as I stated, I could tell that what you said, at the very least, came from a place of virtue and not slickness.

Perhaps the failure was in my comprehension or, to be fair, it could've been in your wording. A wise man listens so I'm game:

What did you mean?

https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

there is nothing NEW under the sun

i genuinely think you could play the whole "degrees of seperation" with anything if you wanted

that said

i am of a generation where "biting" was a major no-no. you didn't want to be seen as copying

now

nobody cares (unless the taker is making more money than they did, or their handlers/descendants ARE... then you got problems)

in this day and age new hold ZERO value for novelty and originality or even a particularly new "take" on things

If you don't add anything new on top of the acts that influence you, then you are derivative and probably garbage.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

And most decent/mediocre ones stay mostly derivative. How can an almost unavoidable part of the development process be a crime?

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

only one who would hear songs in the 90's and say, "she just stole that from Roy Ayers!" or "they stole that from Michael McDonald!" every time a song was sampled...whether they used the same chorus, or interpolated it (re-playing all instruments), or chopped it, or directly sampled it and used the same beat. The only time she didn't say it was "stolen" was if it was a direct cover/remake.

It's hard to say, and in a way, it's just like writing a research paper. You can damn near use four paragraphs from another scholar if you reference it correctly, giving full credit...but if you take one sentence with five words from someone else, and it's so specific, that it's blatantly obvious that you got it from there, you're a thief.

That's how I see it with music. Bruno surely used Teddy Riley's style in "Finesse," but that song doesn't directly copy ANY song from that era....AND he gave him credit after winning the damn Album of the year. It is modeled closest to "Remember the time," hence the blend I made, but some folks tried to "correct" me by saying, "it sounds just like it because it's a sample...you ever heard of that before?" not realizing how far off base they are to say that.

With that G-Funk/Dre/Death Row era...of course, some the old heads hated and felt that not only were they watering down what the originators did, but they hated the content and possibly even the fact that it was Rap, period. Yet, there were some who felt opposite, and saw it as a homage, since they always gave full credit, and they exposed this era to a whole new generation of listeners, such as myself.

So yeah, it can be about interpretation and who you ask as well.

------------------------------

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if you're entrenched that you came up with it on your own (when it's at least questionable if you did) vs saying "i did thins in the style of...."

Cover artist don't steal if they give credit and pay for it.

However, a cover artist is a hack if they don't add anything to it and make derivative work.

I like 24k and Finese, but Bruno Mars best song on his last album was "That's What I like" which is probably the most original song on the album.

Cover artist can be fun, "Wild Thoughts" is fun to hear in the club,

but you have to be original to be a Great One.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

"pretty brown eyes"


Heavily

It's an entirely different energy, for one. It has a 2018 bounce that didn't even exist until "Are you that somebody," seven years after "Breakin my heart/Pretty brown eyes." ONLY similarity is the double hit that comes when he says "I'm gonna give it to YOU" which starts off "Pretty brown eyes." It's about the same BPM, but that means nothing.

------------------------------

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so that's my ears


edit: the bounce in the keyboards/drums in the intro to "pretty brown eyes" (where the deep voice is saying "pretty....brown....eyes...") is the whole basis of the "bounce" of "that's what I like"


that bounce right there

this Korean Pop song here is HILARIOUS, but has some elements that actually top Bruno's record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-hmDsKMA8Q&feature=youtu.be

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yes

the harmonies

the drums

the horn stabs

very 60s/jackie wilson/james brown-esque

with some 70s body-roll slow jamishness thrown in

we used to talk about this all the time

but the quality of it was high so it got a pass

"pretty brown eyes" (plus the rhythmic "attack") intro is obviously what Bruno was hyped about


yeah....


I know there could be some 70's or 80's track that got Mint Condition hyped too, but.....Mint Condition would know of that particular track more than I would...heh heh...

you smooth just gave MC a pass

heh heh indeed

game recognize

tracks to "get them 'inspired'" that I probably can't even imagine.


I definitely know that.

Bruno took something old and made something knew out of it?

It's almost like sampling the way they chopped that beat up.

World is a better place for having both those songs in the world.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Lenny Kravitz did his thing "remaking" the Earth Wind & Fire song "that's the way of the world" with his "it ain't over til it's over" song, but I wasn't too connected to EWF so I kind of was ok with Lenny.


I'm ok with what Bruno did, but it is obvious enough for me to always connect the two songs, like I do with Lennny/EWF situation.

In fact, maybe Bruno and company should just write/produce Bobby's next album and call it even.

because even though the Santana song was released in 1999 I feel like we JUST got to a point where that damn song finally left the radio

and now its back. right there. with that fucking stupid riff, which is great but kinda stupid after hearing it for the 10000000000000000th time.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

"Wu Tang Clan ain't nothin to fuck with"....same melody as Santana's riff.

------------------------------

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***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Also no one gets that...

Hip Hop is how we view the world. Everyone 45 and under has lived in that space their whole life...

Take something you like.. flip it reinterpret it.. or just "rock" it better...

The whole culture is based on flipping EVERYTHING.

You can look at these kids wearing Lo or HIllfiger or Nautica and think they are biting.. but a closer inspection will show they are making it their own.. altering silhouettes and smashing ideas we couldn't have figured out in the 90s.

Bruno is reinterpreting something in his own way because he has the breath of years to cherry pick from. He can take an early 80s record skeleton (24kt) add scratching (wasn't invented yet).. Lo pass filter the pre-chorus (drake-isms), half-time the bridge (2010s) and use language of now (Hashtags blessed, fix your face).

In one song he has reached back and sprinkled an entire trail to 2016. You COULDNT do that in 1982. It was literally impossible. Therefore this is original.

Bruno's only mistake was indulging a little too much.. The back 2 back of Uptown & 24kt is what made this a problem.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Hip Hop is how we view the world. Everyone 45 and under has
>lived in that space their whole life...


Actually grew up with a jazz-head pop, so I knew way more jazz, funk & disco songs than hip hop. Didn't really start listening to rap until college in the mid-90s. Not everyone our age has that perspective. I hear time signatures, modes and chord progressions instead of 'what sample was used.'

Hip Hop isn't the center of the music universe.

Hip hop has been the pre-eminent cultural language for 20-30 years... of course it wasnt the only.. but it is the biggest and most likely to be understood in that age group..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Hip Hop isn't the center of the music universe.


like it's the default...

e

=======================================
Coolin...

because I bet there are like .05% of black youth who didn’t listen to hip hop until college.

You are a proud Black unicorn bro... ain’t nothing wrong with it but you know gotdamn well you weren’t the norm.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

>Hip Hop is how we view the world. Everyone 45 and under has
>lived in that space their whole life...

got it...

however hiphop was also where "don't bite" originated

there is a difference between taking a sample (be it a chop, or a loop of a breakbeat) "rappers delight" is different than "good times" despite both havignthe same musical texture

this got fuzzy (imho) when will smith did "summertime" because the theme is so close to "summer madness". on purpose, because he wanted to invoke the feelings of a summertime-classic song

and when it became a hit the seal was broken

>Take something you like.. flip it reinterpret it.. or just
>"rock" it better...

right

aretha franklin stole (in a good way) "think" -- made it hers to the point where the orignal is an after-thought and the answer to a trivia question

luther vandross had enough singing talent to sing you song JUST LIKE YOU and make it better (creepin', a house is not a home)

likewise i would be hard pressed to say that "wild thoughts" (fun-ness notwithstanding) is qualitatively better than "maria maria"

another point is the "saturation effect", when almost EVERYTHING sounds like something else it (or its popularity comes primarily DUE TO it sounding like something else) the overarching result is numbness and backlash

its the artistic equivalent of EVERY restaurant being "McDowells"

>You can look at these kids wearing Lo or HIllfiger or Nautica
>and think they are biting..

no...this is nostalgia. a totally different thing

wearing what "they bid kids" or "grown folks" wore when you were a kid

happens with every generation

>smashing ideas we couldn't have figured out in the 90s.

Couldn't...or wouldn't because of the "rules" of the times?

wearing an adidas sweatsuit with nikes would have gotten you talked about or looked at as weird

now, you're being "ironic" (intentionally provocative as a way of showing "the old rules don't apply no more"). or maybe just ignorant of the rules while claiming the other

>Bruno is reinterpreting something in his own way because he
>has the breath of years to cherry pick from. He can take an
>early 80s record skeleton (24kt) add scratching (wasn't
>invented yet).. Lo pass filter the pre-chorus (drake-isms),
>half-time the bridge (2010s) and use language of now (Hashtags
>blessed, fix your face).

okay....

>In one song he has reached back and sprinkled an entire trail
>to 2016. You COULDNT do that in 1982. It was literally
>impossible. Therefore this is original.

there you go with that "couldn't" business again, but either way

gumbo, good as it is, is still soup or stew player.

>Bruno's only mistake was indulging a little too much.. The
>back 2 back of Uptown & 24kt is what made this a problem.

two paragraphs ago you celebrated him for all this derivative hodge-podginess. now its being tempered/explained with "he went to the well too much"

i'm not a huge fan of his/theirs, but his *whole* deal seems to be "remember this.."

to me, listening to him reminds me of one of those discount compilations where they didn't want to pay for the rights to have the actual versions with the known singers so they instead hired a bunch of soundalikes

it would be nice to see him just be something that isn't something else for a while

>>Hip Hop is how we view the world. Everyone 45 and under
>has
>>lived in that space their whole life...
>
>got it...
>
>however hiphop was also where "don't bite" originated
>

Sure but only for a time... I doubt Sugar Hill gang was saying "don't bite"

>there is a difference between taking a sample (be it a chop,
>or a loop of a breakbeat) "rappers delight" is different than
>"good times" despite both havignthe same musical texture
>
This will again prove the point below. Rappers delight was a band playing a hip hop interpretation of existing material. It was innovative for what it did vocally (rapping) and the vamp the instrumentation created.

When Chic sat to make good times they would have never made those choices because they did not exist to them.

>>Take something you like.. flip it reinterpret it.. or just
>>"rock" it better...
>
>right
>
>aretha franklin stole (in a good way) "think" -- made it hers
>to the point where the orignal is an afterfthought and the
>answer to a trivia question
>
>luther vandross had enoough singing talent to sing you song
>JUST LIKE YOU and make it better (creepin', a house is not a
>home)
>
>likewise i would be hard pressed to say that "wild thoughts"
>(fun-ness notwithstanding) is qualitatively better than "maria
>maria"
>
its not

>another point is the "saturation effect", when almost
>EVERYTHING sounds like something else it (or its popularity
>comes primarily DUE TO it sounding like something else) the
>overarching result is numbness and backlash
>
While true.. we arent saturated with funk and 80s r&b reinterpretations

>>You can look at these kids wearing Lo or HIllfiger or
>Nautica
>>and think they are biting..
>
>no...this is nostalgia a totally different thing
>
How is it different?

>
>>smashing ideas we couldn't have figured out in the 90s.
>
>Couldn't...or wouldn't because of the "rules" of the times

Both.. the rules we held to meant they couldnt be thought of. You can't invent Cars, light bulbs in Ancient Egypt because the ideas weren't in place to even conceive of it.


>
>now, you're being "ironic" (intentionally provocative as a way
>of showing "the old rules don't apply no more"). or maybe just
>ignorant of the rules while claiming the other

Rules change. Some apply some upon hindsight are stupid. It's dumb that we had to hide our love of Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins because we had to choose a Hip Hop or else. It's dumb that we had to "choose a side" regarding East vs West when all the shit was Hip Hop.

>
>>Bruno is reinterpreting something in his own way because he
>>has the breath of years to cherry pick from. He can take an
>>early 80s record skeleton (24kt) add scratching (wasn't
>>invented yet).. Lo pass filter the pre-chorus (drake-isms),
>>half-time the bridge (2010s) and use language of now
>(Hashtags
>>blessed, fix your face).
>
>okay....
>
>>In one song he has reached back and sprinkled an entire
>trail
>>to 2016. You COULDNT do that in 1982. It was literally
>>impossible. Therefore this is original.
>

It couldn't because the environment didnt exist for it to be cultivated.


>
>gumbo, good as it is, is still soup or stew player.
>
>>Bruno's only mistake was indulging a little too much.. The
>>back 2 back of Uptown & 24kt is what made this a problem.
>
>two paragraphs ago you celebrated him for all this derivative
>hodge-podginess. now its being tempered/explained with "he
>went to the well too much"

Not the well. Simply incorrect timing.

>
>it would be nice to see him just be something that isn't
>something else for a while
>

Sure I would love another Grenade or Young Wild Girls too...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>>however hiphop was also where "don't bite" originated
>>
>
>Sure but only for a time... I doubt Sugar Hill gang was saying
>"don't bite"

THEY weren't because they were biters

but best believe they were roasted to stolen rhymes and subsequently seen by their peers as damn near a novelty act with no true skill

>When Chic sat to make good times they would have never made
>those choices because they did not exist to them.

this isn't true

chic was doing something different (a dance record for discos) but it wasn't like they *couldn't* have "rapped"

that form of club mc-ing (rapping) already existed, and had for several years

see: Fatback's "King Tim III" which came out the same year as "good times" (kimg tim on march and good times in june of 1979)

rappers delight came out in september of '79, as a way to market the thing being done in clubs for free

>>another point is the "saturation effect", when almost
>>EVERYTHING sounds like something else it (or its popularity
>>comes primarily DUE TO it sounding like something else) the
>>overarching result is numbness and backlash
>>
>While true.. we arent saturated with funk and 80s r&b
>reinterpretations

yes we are because rap has been doing it SINCE the 90s (see the earlier bits about puffy)

then you had neo-soul

then we had the wave of neo-"blue eyed soul" (timberlake, winehouse, sam smith, adele, robin thicke, etc.)

and past music, it seems like every other tv show of movie is a remake/reboot/reimagining

so the entire arts world is seemingly derivative with little genuine pushing forward

>>no...this is nostalgia a totally different thing
>>
>How is it different?

because BITING is acting like it didn't exist before and pretending you just did something new or innovative

nostalgia is intentionally saying "lets bring this back" because we love it

>Rules change. Some apply some upon hindsight are stupid.

sure. SOME were dumb, but not all

"don't straight up steal" isn't a dumb rule

or simply reminding folks that what they are liking isn't inherently better because it's new or because they aren't unfamiliar with what is being mimicked (or homaged or thrown back to)

I remember playign "the beautiful ones" by prince for my neice because she was enamored ith that god-awful mariah cary-sisqo version

it broadened her perspective so she could see the difference between Dom Pérignon and Bubbly Pink Moscato

>It couldn't because the environment didnt exist for it to be
>cultivated.

of course they coudln't create a path to the future

but you're implying that time started recently

look at "sir duke". THAT is a similar historical path that wasn't derivative but celebratory

>>gumbo, good as it is, is still soup or stew player.

to remake my point, there are "levels" of gumbo

sir duke is authentic, good gumbo made by creoles

mars is the stuff you get from campbells for folks who don't know better

>>it would be nice to see him just be something that isn't
>>something else for a while
>>
>
>Sure I would love another Grenade or Young Wild Girls too...

i get that doing this would risk $$$

but since he's reached enough fame for folks to now check for him he *could* do it and be seen as pushing his boundaries as opposed to riding the cash cow

>Bruno is reinterpreting something in his own way because he
>has the breath of years to cherry pick from. He can take an
>early 80s record skeleton (24kt) add scratching (wasn't
>invented yet).. Lo pass filter the pre-chorus (drake-isms),
>half-time the bridge (2010s) and use language of now (Hashtags
>blessed, fix your face).
>
>In one song he has reached back and sprinkled an entire trail
>to 2016. You COULDNT do that in 1982. It was literally
>impossible. Therefore this is original.

Gold.

I've def felt this way about a lot of things, from creating music, and even to DJing. It's where I've even felt like...there should NEVER be a period of no good music, solely because there's so much to reach back and flip in your own way, just from cherry picking the best parts of previous eras.

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I think as DJ's we have also learned that with youtube and streaming in general...

for these young kids...

Time is flat for their musical history.

They can like Brandy, Aaliyah, Kanye & MJ equally. They don't need to have been a part of an era. All music basically came out vaguely the same year to them.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

yessirrrrr

the flattening of the world is a mindfuck. I talk and think about this all the time.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

i'm curious how you all are applying this concept

somehow the internet has removed "eras" from music differently than tv or radio did?

i understand information accessibility (and overload/saturation)

but how does a brandy/mj/james brown suddenly become one temporal blob to a kid?

and how does THAT "blob" keep them from being locked into their era's new the same way every previous generation was (and will be)?

>i'm curious how you all are applying this concept
>
>somehow the internet has removed "eras" from music differently
>than tv or radio did?

TV... especially (syndication) started it. When I was a kid I watched transformers AND I Love Lucy and this was '86. Back then it was still cherry picked for us though

>
>i understand information accessibility (and
>overload/saturation)
>
>but how does a brandy/mj/james brown suddenly become one
>temporal blob to a kid?
>
It might be a human thing. We are really bad at perceiving time (past and future).

>and how does THAT "blob" keep them from being locked into
>their era's new the same way every previous generation was
>(and will be)?

can you rephrase... what do you mean by locked into their era

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>TV... especially (syndication) started it. When I was a kid
>I watched transformers AND I Love Lucy and this was '86. Back
>then it was still cherry picked for us though

cherry picked yeas...BUT you could also the cream rose and we got the "best" of what was old

"i love lucy" lasted
"my mother the car" didn't

>>and how does THAT "blob" keep them from being locked into
>>their era's new the same way every previous generation was
>>(and will be)?
>
>can you rephrase... what do you mean by locked into their era

"locked" was the wrong word.

we knew the difference between "gilligan's island" or "i dream of genie" (old) and "different strokes" (new)

we knew the difference between "flash gordon" serials and "star wars"

we knew that "my girl" wasn't of the same timeframe as "bad mamma jamma"

we even knew count basie was way before sam cooke who was before teddy pendergrass

they know migos is different than nas (shoutouts to lonzo ball)

some of what you describe...i think is tied to a lack of historical awareness and overall dumbing-down of society

today you don't HAVE to have any sense of nuance

*thats* why everything online is so hyperbolic

I will leave this here.. lol

this went viral last week

https://twitter.com/leahvigs/status/969335850000703488

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

another thing...

I marvel at how *proud* folks are to be clueless (grossly so) these days

not even enough sense to hide your stupid

yikes

nope...

But I still think without exact dates.. most people view time in really weird way

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

It was accurate that many kids view everything from like late 80's to early 2000's as the same. Malcolm said he liked 90's the most, then mentioned like NWA's first album, and Blueprint, as if they were both 90's, when neither of them were LOL

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Thing is

The chronological time between The Chronic 92 and illmatic 94 is 2 years...

but that shit was a lifetime in terms of cultural evolution and innovation...

to a 20 year old they just look at it ALL as the 90s or that old shit... lol

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Or even, 90 to 92, or shit anywhere in there.

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because that in itself is a HUGE debate

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

basically saying he wasn't innovating the songs or sampling in the way that Premo and Pete Rock would do. They didn't like that he would just lift the same exact track, and then just flip the chorus of the original a little bit, and then add rap verses....versus how Premo would flip "I put a spell on you" to make it an entirely different song.

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THAT album is when the whole "i'll jack your entire song" thing with puffy got nuts

specifically: you remind me

same music
same chorus

everyone is influenced by somebody.

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

Point is that most folks that 'steal/copy/honor' are doing so with watered-down versions of good songs, or just generic pop to begin with.

Ain't too many people 'stealing' Oscar Peterson, Yusef Lateef, Roy Ayers (vibes) or Jimi Hendrix' stuff, because they can't. Sure, maybe a riff or nice little progression, but the overall feel? Hell naw.

Like your average trap bars w/ autotune. ANYONE can copy that shit, and make a fairly good copy at that. The low bar that people accept is probably the problem.

Kinda like mofos complaining about their oodles of noodles recipe getting jacked, lol. Meanwhile, chefs with those really good meals ain't worried because it's not so easy to copy what they are doing.

bogarted him for Hotline Bling. He was mad because he had just sampled the same beat for his song Cha Cha and Drake clearly liked that idea and flipped it for himself.

I get why he was heated but I also couldn't help but thinking, but you sampled the song as well. How made can you be when he just prompted you to do the same thing you did (and arguably better).



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

These songs are not the same sample though

One was sampled from Super Mario brothers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=j36B92fifJI

the other is Timmy Thomas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-FJzPE80

I think what you mean is the way drake says "I know when that hotline bling" is incredibly similar to "I like to cha cha"

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
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twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

I’m a new artist and come out with some different shit and you do the same shit right after me? Ionno man.. that’s just lazy.

I dont care how easy it is to sample some cha cha shit...

it’s having the stones to take that risk that I dig.

So I see why Dram was mad and I agree

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

What has bruno added to the artists/songs he derived his sound from?

We also need to discuss how songs are received differently depending on who's executing them. Bruno is using his adjacency to whiteness and "pop" appeal to make gwap off of music that black people would be ignored for making. He's executing it well and he's talented, but lets tell the truth while we dance to it.

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

>What has bruno added to the artists/songs he derived his
>sound from?

Context... per charlie wilson

https://twitter.com/ImCharlieWilson/status/972218930998648832

>
>We also need to discuss how songs are received differently
>depending on who's executing them. Bruno is using his
>adjacency to whiteness and "pop" appeal to make gwap off of
>music that black people would be ignored for making. He's
>executing it well and he's talented, but lets tell the truth
>while we dance to it.

It cuts both ways. He might be easier for white people to digest but he is also "exoticised" by black people for not "looking black" and doing black things i.e. THAT ASIAN BOY CAN DANCE! THAT BOY CAN SING

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

he stole from

- parliament funkadelic (I am sir camel and its hot in this desert...)
- prince
- cameo
- rick james

you could even say this whole "uncle charlie routine" is xeroxing the blueprint of "mr. big" (ron isley)

yeah

so when he says "artists of his ilk" he ain't lying

plus he is sticking up for his boy so it isn't like he is giving an unbiased opinion

Bruno did not bring back 90's/80's r&b, there are several artists taking from past music and building their own shit on top of it. foh

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

we as a society pick and choose when to use each of those words. We cherry pick when to use it based on a lot of factors, like whether we like the artist, their race, the genre etc.

Obviously we hear stories and there are people who rip off others where the intent is malicious and deceitful but we as people will call out anyone before we have that type of evidence based on the factors above.

At the end of the day most artists are rarely "original", a small special percentage of artists (in any medium) are. And its unfair to think all artists are or put that expectation on them too. Its no different than people coming on here regurgitating other peoples political thoughts off as their own as if it were an original thought like this is some bar scene in Goodwill Hunting LOL

How many people were quick to say Joey Badass was original when because he was different than the climate of music when he first popped off but in reality the kid was just doing his best interpretation of 90's boom bap that we grew up with.....we pick and choose what we want to see.




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IG @h_n_z

Regarding the labels. I think the way we label cultural fodder, or even just the act of labeling cultural fodder, genres, etc...can create a lot of confusion and cause all kinds of ideas and whatnot to get conflated in a sloppy and too-confident way. People latch onto cultural labels with a pseudo-scientific fervor that betrays our grip on reality. I'm not even saying the labels or the practice of labeling is a completely bad thing without value...but it has it's pitfalls.

As for your body text on originality, I agree completely.

we need to identity things and categorize them as humans...we just need to. Theres no way around it. And like you said it has its negatives, and we only have ourselves to blame for that because we'll use the labels in a negative way to make ourselves feel better. It's about recognizing those moments as much as possible tho where we usually fail.




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IG @h_n_z

we need to be mindful about where labels come from, what they are and what they aren't

see also: Flatbush Zombies

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Meek is an out right thief. He steals songs etc. from unsigned indie artists like Prince Eazy and Young Rome without giving them any credit. Here's a good primer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShnbYku-OLM

Meek even stole his name from someone.....

Drake is more of a guy that is inspired by someone. The difference here is Drake gives credit and doesn't take entire songs. During interviews Drake gives a nod to where he got the inspiration from. Drake gives artists a push with a whole package of touring, interviews, and publicity for six months to a year. Your streaming numbers go up. Your ig followers go up.

A thief doesn't give credit and takes the art as his own.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

"They used to call me Baby Luke....but now? The whole damn 2 Liiiive Crew."

He jacked DRAM's "Cha Cha" thing, and that was a
big to the point DRAM got tired of being asked
about it... but I'm glad he bounced back with
another hit.
He jacked hashtag flow from Big Sean when he came
into the game.
This isn't even all.
Drake is probably the most terrible example
of originality you could ever choose, b/c he stays
stealing some shit from lesser known artists.
Hell, the mil he gave away in that video was only
partial atonement lol.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

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TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

like Ray Charles straight up came out jacking Nat King Cole
and then flipped the script and got his own bag. that is how you do it.

ain't been but a handful of Original artists ever in the game period.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills