Just feel like venting for a second. I stuck with various laptops and pcs over the years and have been fine with the price points. My Lenovo N580 was probably the best laptop I've ever owned. And I like my iPhone a lot but never really considered a Mac until windows 10.

First it was Cortana, then being unable to take Cortana out by the registry, then the endless updates, even when you turn updates off, it was still finding ways to shut down my computer and install new shit while closing programs without saving. Sometimes updating for hours while I was in the middle of something.

Then this weekend it updated windows 10. Again without me giving the go ahead and with me clicking everything that said do not install. When my computer finally came back online my sound card was deactivated. So I had to open a browser to figure out what was wrong, but suddenly any browser was completely clogging memory just to open. Then when I fixed my sound card two of three USB ports and one SD card had been deactivated.

But even after all of that I was still gonna stick with windows. But then I tried to move a couple of picture files to a tablet, 20 minutes.

So here goes.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

My PCs at home still run XP (rock solid with the graphics/video/animation software on it). At work, we all use Windows 7. Even on my Mac I'm still running 10.6.8. Upgrading the OS is a last-resort option for me.

Yup
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3029613/microsoft-windows/new-details-emerge-about-forced-windows-10-upgrade-and-how-to-block-it.html

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

Only time I upgrade my systems is when something I need doesn't work.

Upgraded from 98 to XP because of USB

Upgraded one computer to 7 because of better USB support, but realized I didn't even really need that (main issue is my 1TB USB doesn't work in XP, I just use my 32GB flash drive to swap files).

I'll trade this frustration for a new one. But I can't keep doing this bs.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

it's your life. to set on fire.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

It works, and is very reliable. Also light on RAM.

but in a world where even media files can contain malware including cryptolockers, I wouldn't run XP anywhere.

if it has no data of value and isn't doing anything you can't afford to lose and isn't connected to anything then honestly idk what you're using it for.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Welcome to the fold.

Notice I said MAC not Apple btw.... i'm still #teamandroid....

And yes, I feel you on the incessant Windows updates. Damn things are in a constant state of updating. Spend more time configuring and shit than using the damn thing. Nothing worse than anticipating and structuring your work habits around knowing you need to include downtime for Windows to update something.



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Just to pay a bill.
Like that's just outrageous to me.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

Blast & FULL Blast

I don't even know what the fck it's doing. It just be on and i'll be across the room reading papers not even working on the damn thing....
Windows 10; Surface Book.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

the only acceptable way to live your life is to build a pc yourself with plenty of ram and an SSD

Mass produced products don't have to all be crap.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

But there is validity to what you're saying.
Unfortunately ANGTFT!

With that said...it's still something flawed about Windows OS IMO. I run Windows 10 on my Macbook too. And it runs BETTER on my Macbook than any PC i've ever owned...BUT...it still causes my fan to go nuts whenever I run it. I've given up trying to troubleshoot. I only need it for 1 program..so I just grin & bear it...


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

combined with the way the "kernal" or whatever works in windows 10 now

like it doesnt work like OS used to work (i dont know enough to speak nay more)


things seem to work so much better when you have control over your motherboard and all that stuff which is almost an afterthough in most prefab pc's

its a work computer and i know some of my software may break if i update. it seems every day it prompts me to update and give me two options, install or more info.

why isnt there a no thanks button?

at least it doesnt just install it i guess.

edit: as i was typing this i was like, why haven't i googled how to stop this? lol hopefully this takes care of it.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

You can turn off check for updates in system preferences.

High Sierra doesn't seem to need this kind of nagging/pushing. I doesn't fix any terrible bugs or provide better security so it's just "needed' if you want the new features.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

they let you control the updates much better

I have xp on another laptop. That laptop is shit but the OS is fine.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

i held out as long as possible lol

i dont hate win 10 though like i said the pro actually functions the way it seems like it should

its been a ride.

at first I was amazed at how simple everything was.

now, I am concerned Apple is on the path of fucking over the user base for their laptops/desktops.

My next machine will likely be a mac, but after seeing the weird ass take with the inconsistency between the phone, ipad and laptop my faith has been shaken

iphone - no headphone jack
ipad - 3.5 headphone jack
mac - 3.5 headphone jack

iphone - revealed planned obsolesce

mac - still holding "deal of the time" with the 1300 base price for the 13inch model

mac - pushing the touch bar which seems like an exercise in futility

apple - the damned cloud as a great way to leech 5 or 10 bucks each month from users

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

in some ways.
If they kill the headphone jack on the Macbook...it's gonna be hard to ride for them lol..

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

tried the surface studio and loved it but it has a dumb high price - then again the apple equivalent is close if not a full thousand above in price.

surface pro laptops are really solid.

I loved trying them out in the store right up until I realized I was still using windows. the commands were fucking with me, the graphics started to fall into windows 8 and 98 territory. I saw the man behind the curtain.

I want iOS attention to detail and usability paired with microsoft's hardware.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

its perfect for what she does (art teacher)

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

laptop (pc)

im like look i dont like macs really but they are good at what they do and you have an iphone already and your school uses macs


she still resisted

black friday rolled around and was l ike DUDE YOURE GETTING A MAC!


shes fucking stoked now lol

but we resisted iPhones until last year. We hate the cameras on the iPhone tho.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

but I'm never going back to Windows. So unpolished and shitty.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

if you're getting random reboots in windows and it's not being scheduled by your IT department, then you set it up wrong, or you ignored the updates for weeks which is dumb as hell.

you will have the same problem on mac. They've issued three critical updates in the last month.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Does your IT department manage your computer because they may have control over what's happening?

That's literally not how Windows works at all. You are either confused about what you're seeing, exaggerating, or you're like a year behind in updates or some shit.

They release "critical updates" once a month b. They've gone outside of that like once in the last few years.

---I just noticed you said your work PC. That's your IT department's decision, it's not Windows. I get the same shit on my work Mac because the IT department decides when to push "critical updates" that has nothing to do with Apple.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>Does your IT department manage your computer because they may
>have control over what's happening?
They do. I'm locked out of most everything.

>That's literally not how Windows works at all. You are either
>confused about what you're seeing, exaggerating, or you're
>like a year behind in updates or some shit.

Def. seems like some stuff that they roll out after they've vetted it for us.

>They release "critical updates" once a month b. They've gone
>outside of that like once in the last few years.



>---I just noticed you said your work PC. That's your IT
>department's decision, it's not Windows. I get the same shit
>on my work Mac because the IT department decides when to push
>"critical updates" that has nothing to do with Apple.
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at




"Get ready....for your blessing....."

suddenly required updates and rebooted AT THE BEGINNING OF LIVEBLOGS.

all for updates that had been out for a bit but that IT hadn't pushed over the holidays.

they push on their schedule for their reasons and usually the timing sucks because once you look at when the best time (even if they do it in the middle of the night, it happens midweek or monday night because people don't want to have a problem over the weekend) for an IT push is, it's right at the middle of when you're really working on some shit.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

And while the updates may be patching issues they're creating others.
Additionally the reasoning is vague and time needed isn't communicated clearly.
Also, it's my device. If I choose to never update and put myself at risk, I should have that option.
Furthermore just saving things doesn't help
You start touching up a picture or working on a project sometimes picking up right where you left off is needed for the creative process, not spending an hour trying to find your source material and getting your screen and settings back to where you left it.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

it's not "creating other problems"

they release patches you have to restart for ONCE A MONTH.

you can manage that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I've had a PC in my bedroom since I was eight in 1991. I'm no tech expert, but if I can't figure it out easily even with that level of knowledge, then it's a poor user experience.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

just stop not rebooting for two to three months at a time

I'll let you know where to paypal my consultant fee


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

there's kind of a gap in there.

it will tell you when it needs to restart. instead of whining and putting it off. just save your shit.

then don't worry about it until literally an entire month later.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

make an actual note for yourself when you're getting these updates and what it says they're for.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

It ignores that windows completely updated not just patched
That the update changed two front facing hardware settings (USB and sound)
That the update rendered basic browsing useless
That following the update simple tasks weren't so simple
That this isn't the first time that it's happened
That Cortana isn't able to be deactivated anymore
And so overall there's been a dramatic decrease in both my satisfaction with the product and how much control I have over it.
My user experience has been declining, and scheduling my personal life and habits to continue that isn't a viable or reasonable solution.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

exactly. you're mad.

it doesn't matter what you're mad about.

doesn't matter when it happened.

you just want to be mad.

then do that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

But it just kind of sucks enough to be annoying but not enough to make me want to switch.

I just don't understand with how Microsoft gets away with putting out products that just barely work.

They should have apple and amazon beat with the voice assistant software but Cortana is shit.

They should have a better photo manager than discontinued, dated Picasa but they don't.

Why are there still two sets of settings (metro versus windows classic) controlling one thing?

Windows has no interest in perfecting or refining features, they are just always on to the next.

And as much as we do things on our phones and in the cloud we still need a home base to back up all of our photos and documents, etc.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i have a mac and a pc at work for what I do and whenever I switch to the windows machine I feel so restricted with commands and functions.


like, if I'm using the mac and I want to grab a screen shot its a simply keyboard command, however on the pc its a convoluted process to do just one stupid simple thing.

its maddening.


if they wanted to make windows more user friendly they would have to trash pretty much all of the models/use patterns that have been in use since day one.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Nightmare.

Let me stop, I am about to buy a new windows 10 laptop in the next few weeks.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I bet its something from the top/managment/bus devs

"why fix whats broken? we still making money right? RIGHT? ok then, take yo lil' ass to the studio then and get back to work."

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

Now, I did overbuild my PC when I put it together 5 years ago, so I've got little slowdown. That said, the PC my son is using was a decommissioned Dell office computer (that someone has threw a SSD and quite a bit of memory into) that still runs Win10 with little problem. Doing the upgrade from Win7 to Win10 was a 3 day ordeal, and I need to sort out one of my partitions for the latest upgrade (which I just haven't bothered doing) but everything else has been pretty smoth.

My wife got a MBP about 4 years ago, and besides needing a new battery the only other thing I need to do is upgrade her to a SSD (the HDD seems to be the only thing slowing it down these days). Everything has been rock solid from the jump. Things like installing print drivers are so much easier (took about 15 minutes on each PC, and under 2 minutes on the laptop). That said, I do hate Safari, and Chrome isn't exactly swift on iOS, because reasons.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

the guy who wants to edit registry settings but never gets it right.

the guy who delays an update for EIGHT MONTHS (the creator's update you're pissed off about rolled out in april of last year, no wonder you're always getting notifications to reboot) and then complains when it installs, and then has problems because he's been screwing around with the registry.

ok my guy.

please, please get a mac.

shit, please get a chromebook

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

it killed all my usb 3.0

my one 2.0 spot seemed to work

it was such a PITA with only one peripheral trying to troubleshoot

finally i said fuck it and rolled the update back, updated mobo firmware and chipset

waited about 3 weeks and did the update again with fingers crossed

went off without a hitch though so i was like score!

The other was fine.

Both were clean install about 6 months ago.

After about 6 hours trying to "fix it" I just wiped it clean and started over. That did it.

And my main computer is always a Mac, I can cover form shit on the Mac much easier than the PC - but I have a gaming PC and an HTPC PC - and Windows is better for both of those purposes.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

There's no shame in self flagellating to the perceived faults in others, but you seem to not be getting relief. Maybe eat some corn flakes.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://media3.giphy.com/media/1482hCQhu36bq8/giphy.gif

dude is l33t af and I'm just n00b

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

with their computer beyond turning it on and off and occasionally clicking "Yes" when asked if you want to update.

PC's require more "participation" than Macs on that front. When my Mac updates, it tells me "Do this now" "Try in an hour" "Try later tonight"....
Regarding my Mac:
It never just DOES it without me acknowledging
It never just holds my shutdown process hostage forcing me to wait while it "updates" before it shuts down (This is the default setting in Windows.."perform automatic updates", no one should have to go into settings to modify this default in order to prevent this behavior)
It never forces me to wait for an update to install when I simply just wanted to reboot the damn machine.
It never fcks up my external display resolution & screen element sizes after a reboot.
I could go on....

Bottom line...yes, Macs are dumb easy to own and operate...and that's kinda the point. PC's are cool and just as powerful (oft/sometimes more powerful) but you gotta understand how they tic to a certain degree in order to be 100% happy with them 100% of the time.



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

and we always have issues with these damn computers.

I'm sure Mac's have issues as well but it sure seems like these PC's need to be hand held more often.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

talk to your IT department. it's them.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Basically.

And another complaint is if you have critical issues send me an email.

Nobody likes pop up notifications.

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

and emails can't be faked by people trying to phish you!

so yeah, use email, not desktop notifications.

y'all don't think about this stuff for even a moment.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

And that people haven't been fucking with desktop notifications since then.

L33T !!

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

wtf

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

so....I guess you'll be happy to know that?


y'all really blame microsoft for stuff your IT department picked, but because you don't have work macs you don't know they can do the same thing there.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I've used one for web design before and it just doesn't seem so different from Windows that it's worth spending the extra 1K solely for the OS.

But I'm not really a geek for tech, tho. The OS doesn't really make a difference to me since they all essential have the same basic elements.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

I had everything

4 iphones over six years

3 macbook pros over four years.

cinema display

through all of this, consistently, I was never able to achieve the workflow I get from a simple windows machine with the right apps.

Once YOUR set of apps on windows (such as snagit for taking screenshots). a windows machine becomes a productivity machine.

Mac apps run slowly like molasses unless you have top tier specs (we all knew they had planned obsolescence built into the entire OS lineup) and apple's idea of workflow is complicated gestures and full screen apps that don't really let you manage your workspace in a way that is flexible. It took apple until 2012 to implement snap-to screen split screen apps, if I recall. The same shortcut keys that people complain about on windows, make simple things incredibly fast. Especially when non-windows apps use their own, customizable shortcut keys, its powerful for business professionals.

If you work in a creative field or education you don't care about workflow because you work with concepts, and the machine is just there to assist with the managing a concept(a picture, a movie, an academic paper, etc). Macs are fine for you if this is the case.

But if you work in business and you are used to the windows user model and you know your way around the general flow of windows(even with the duplicate UI concepts for settings). there is NOTHING a mac can do for you. there is no comparison in business workflow between a well spec'd windows machine and similarly specd mac. not even on price.

And I'd mention that manufacturers like Lenovo continuously make beautiful and simple windows productivity machines that have better hardware experiences than macs. I have NEVER had to take my lenovo to a "store" to fix an issue.

why couldn't you do all that stuff with one good mac machine?

Is there any legit reason to buy 4 iphones in 6 years?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I will give them that, I basically cut my apple product cost in half through the resale value.

But yes, I was looking for the windows "responsive" ui experience so I kept upgrading. I was never able to find a spec of macbook that "felt" smooth, there were always goofy slowdowns in the performance. the iphones were a guilty pleasure, and I was caught up in the marketing.

I switched to Mac for my personal machine, home use & use for my personal business.

For my 9 to 5, I do have doubts that a Mac would be the ideal machine here. It would be a painful process to adapt my workflow here but mainly because windows OS & applications are so entrenched. Even the Mac versions of MS programs are ever so slightly different (Word for Mac, Excel for Mac, Outlook, etc.) That'd def. be a P.I.T.A.

So maybe it boils down to what a user wants to deal with while they're at home vs at work. At work, there's an entire IT department at my disposal to deal with all the B.S. of a Windows machine. At home, it's just me...and i'd rather not have to invest the time it takes to keep a windows machine running optimally.

My 2012 Machbook Pro w/retina display has required ZERO maintenance from me over the past nearly 6 years. ZERO! I've opted to upgrade the OS simply because it was there....but I didn't HAVE to at all. I've also switched out and installed a larger SSD because I wanted more internal storage (did this myself, not at the Genius bar) but I didn't HAVE to. This is the longest stretch of owning a computer where I wasn't regretting my purchase or thinking about upgrading to a new machine.

>4 iphones over six years

Never felt the need to own an iPhone. I don't get the mentality that you have to fully invest in the Apple ecosystem. The 'cloud' has essentially eliminated this as a thing.

>3 macbook pros over four years.

What in the world have you been doing to need that many macbooks in such a short span? Were you buying used ones? Macbook Airs?? WTF??

>cinema displays

Again...plural????For WHY???

>through all of this, consistently, I was never able to achieve
>the workflow I get from a simple windows machine with the
>right apps.

Is your workflow creating new universes or something? Are you God??lol...

>Once YOUR set of apps on windows (such as snagit for taking
>screenshots). a windows machine becomes a productivity
>machine.



>Mac apps run slowly like molasses unless you have top tier
>specs (we all knew they had planned obsolescence built into
>the entire OS lineup) and apple's idea of workflow is
>complicated gestures and full screen apps that don't really
>let you manage your workspace in a way that is flexible. It
>took apple until 2012 to implement snap-to screen split screen
>apps, if I recall. The same shortcut keys that people complain
>about on windows, make simple things incredibly fast.
>Especially when non-windows apps use their own, customizable
>shortcut keys, its powerful for business professionals.

See...this. You don't have to have "top tier" specs. You buy the right machine for the job. Don't by a Macbook Air expecting it to be a workhorse productivity machine.

>If you work in a creative field or education you don't care
>about workflow because you work with concepts, and the machine
>is just there to assist with the managing a concept(a picture,
>a movie, an academic paper, etc). Macs are fine for you if
>this is the case.

This just isn't true. Not true at ALL.


>But if you work in business and you are used to the windows
>user model and you know your way around the general flow of
>windows(even with the duplicate UI concepts for settings).
>there is NOTHING a mac can do for you. there is no comparison
>in business workflow between a well spec'd windows machine and
>similarly specd mac. not even on price.

If you work in "business" you should be caring about longevity of the equipment that you procure. My experience has been that Windows actually runs BETTER on my Macbook than any other PC i've ever used it on. And I run Windows via a virtual machine! (Parallels)

>And I'd mention that manufacturers like Lenovo continuously
>make beautiful and simple windows productivity machines that
>have better hardware experiences than macs. I have NEVER had
>to take my lenovo to a "store" to fix an issue.

I've never had to take my Mac to a "store". But it's good to know that there IS a store to take it to...vs. going to my random Best Buy so that a Geek Squad member can screw my machine up even more.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Stop buying shit and just use what you have. I bet if he/she didn’t go all Apple crazy the experience might have been smoother.

That new iphone hype is a helluva drug for some people tho. I’m always amazed when folks always Ha e the latest phone. Those people always say shit like “my old phone was glitchy, something was wrong with XYZ” but most times it’s just an excuse to buy some new shit.

I don’t use apps on the computer tho so no idea which is better. Honestly, as long as a computer turns on and works I don’t see much difference in the experience as long as you have enough ram.

I’m looking at buying a vinyl plotter and most are built to only work with PC but I really don’t want to go out and buy one just to cut vinyl.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

I just upgraded often because the experience sucked

doesn’t sound like it was the experience. Sounds like you like upgrading hoping to hit the user experience lottery.

At my job my boss is always buying shit and coworkers complain because they spend all their time setting shut up and learning the new tricks and shortcuts instead of just getting the job done.

Macs aren’t perfect and there is nothing wrong with preferring a PC but even if it was the other way around I think buying/upgrading every 2 years makes it hard to truly test a product.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

...shit is just gonna be broken. Some software and drivers wont be supported. System workflow will change. New OSs almost always use more resources (RAM, ROM, CPU cycles) than the previous version.

I just don't get the need to have the latest, greatest product nowadays. Whenever something new comes out it's all of a sudden a necessity. I wrote above that I still use XP because it works, it's fast and stable. Same with my Mac... I'm still running 10.6.8 because it works well and there's nothing that I need that isn't compatible with the system.

if you can find them joints on CL with 8 gigs of RAM and they still have the DV-R Drive..probably the best bang for the buck

I bought one of those 2008 joints in college brand new at like 2 grand; shit crapped out like in 3 yrs

https://www.instagram.com/christiancgarrido/

Hussein ibn Malik "if he escaped on a horse he might be realest nigga ever, EVER..2013 Nat Turner with the burner"
MaxPtah "Django is real homie.."
PoppaGeorge "If you're a child of the 70's, Ye looks like a p