Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion topic #13192182

Subject: "No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?" Previous topic | Next topic
BigReg
Charter member
61805 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 10:15 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?"
Thu Sep-07-17 10:36 AM by BigReg

  

          

(shouts to Kira for the audio version)

https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/the-first-white-president-the-atlantic-ta-nehisi-coates

Some hot takes:

Before Barack Obama, niggers could be manufactured out of Sister Souljahs, Willie Hortons, and Dusky Sallys. But Donald Trump arrived in the wake of something more potent—an entire nigger presidency with nigger health care, nigger climate accords, and nigger justice reform, all of which could be targeted for destruction or redemption, thus reifying the idea of being white. Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president. And so it will not suffice to say that Trump is a white man like all the others who rose to become president. He must be called by his rightful honorific—America’s first white president.


Here are shots fired at those 'its about class, stupid' bernie bros:

The left would much rather have a discussion about class struggles, which might entice the white working masses, instead of about the racist struggles that those same masses have historically been the agents and beneficiaries of. Moreover, to accept that whiteness brought us Donald Trump is to accept whiteness as an existential danger to the country and the world. But if the broad and remarkable white support for Donald Trump can be reduced to the righteous anger of a noble class of smallville firefighters and evangelicals, mocked by Brooklyn hipsters and womanist professors into voting against their interests, then the threat of racism and whiteness, the threat of the heirloom, can be dismissed. Consciences can be eased; no deeper existential reckoning is required.

and subliminals to canadians who like a certain fast food restaurant chain and believe identity politics will doom us(white people) all:

...with the fact that it was identity politics—the possibility of the first black president—that brought a record number of black voters to the polls, winning the election for the Democratic Party, and thus enabling the deliverance of the ancient liberal goal of national health care. “Identity politics … is largely expressive, not persuasive,” Lilla claims. “Which is why it never wins elections—but can lose them.” That Trump ran and won on identity politics is beyond Lilla’s powers of conception. What appeals to the white working class is ennobled. What appeals to black workers, and all others outside the tribe, is dastardly identitarianism. All politics are identity politics—except the politics of white people...

-----------------------------------
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/
-----------------------------------

Its long, its stuff we already know, but it's well worth the read on how eloquently he lays down the fire. You can also get a synopsis here:

http://www.npr.org/2017/09/07/549098169/ta-nehisi-coates-on-obama-and-trumps-election

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Can you edit this to include the audio?
Sep 07th 2017
1
peeped this am..spot on
Sep 07th 2017
2
RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?
Sep 07th 2017
3
his keyboard go skrrrrrrrra pa pa ka ka ka skeedy ki pa pa
Sep 07th 2017
4
ughhhh he killed this
Sep 07th 2017
5
RE: ughhhh he killed this
Sep 08th 2017
40
approaching goat status.
Sep 07th 2017
6
this is great | when does the next book come out?
Sep 07th 2017
7
next book in October
Sep 07th 2017
8
      thanks
Sep 07th 2017
11
His point on whiteness being the issue is spot on
Sep 07th 2017
9
white people basically have to dismantle their own whiteness
Sep 07th 2017
25
It would take Armageddon for that to even MAYBE happen
Sep 07th 2017
28
      it's gonna take like 30 years.
Sep 07th 2017
29
           i hope you're right.
Sep 07th 2017
30
           not sure if something practiced and enjoyed for 300+ can go in 30
Sep 07th 2017
31
                this is the last leg of a process that's been happening
Sep 07th 2017
32
                     last leg implies it's been waning doen't it?
Sep 07th 2017
33
                          check the edit.
Sep 07th 2017
34
                               to those points it seems there is a more effective counter for each
Sep 08th 2017
35
                                    None of that contradicts what I said at all.
Sep 08th 2017
45
                                         stabbing a man in the back and pulling the knife half out ain't progress
Sep 08th 2017
48
                                              You gotta let go of that self-defeatism, my brother
Sep 08th 2017
49
                                                   Isn't that the type of response Coates says people make
Sep 08th 2017
55
yep i realize this even w/ my "woke" white friends
Sep 08th 2017
41
      most don't even know that the anthem is fucking racist
Sep 08th 2017
43
Good looking out, great read.
Sep 07th 2017
10
is this his Amy Goodman interview? didn't click
Sep 07th 2017
12
Nah, a new long form article a la 'Case for Reparations'
Sep 07th 2017
13
      still listening. Ta Nehisi is that dude
Sep 07th 2017
14
omg Reg, thank you
Sep 07th 2017
15
man, TNC spitting that pure THC.
Sep 07th 2017
16
he's so on point. i just hope he keeps speaking writing publishing
Sep 07th 2017
17
he needs to, so i can cop dat vol. 1 anthology in a few years.
Sep 07th 2017
18
      first author from my generation that I'm sure teenagers will be "discove...
Sep 07th 2017
26
MORE FIRE!!!
Sep 07th 2017
19
here's his Charlottesville interview I didn't see any posts about it
Sep 07th 2017
20
Jesus Christ....to call this article etherous would be an understatement...
Sep 07th 2017
21
Colonel West is somewhere mad AF right now
Sep 07th 2017
22
most black public intellectuals been on notice since TNC got started.
Sep 07th 2017
24
      Also, almost getting killed counter protesting nazis
Sep 08th 2017
36
      True
Sep 08th 2017
37
      true. respect for his continued protesting
Sep 08th 2017
44
      RE: most black public intellectuals been on notice since TNC got started...
Sep 08th 2017
42
      why did I laugh reading this.
Sep 13th 2017
65
Thank you
Sep 07th 2017
23
oh my lawd
Sep 07th 2017
27
👏🏽🙏🏽🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 FUEGO TAKE.
Sep 08th 2017
38
* STANDING OVATION *
Sep 08th 2017
39
I prefer Diallo Kenyatta, but TNC is good for mainstream
Sep 08th 2017
46
Don't change
Sep 08th 2017
47
TNC = Liberal Complaints and Appeals, lacking Solutions.
Sep 08th 2017
50
      you're right about the solutions....
Sep 08th 2017
51
      His pessimism is the major flaw I have with his work.
Sep 08th 2017
54
           Yes, yes & yes.
Sep 08th 2017
56
      you're right about the solutions....
Sep 08th 2017
52
      I don't get the impression Coates believes there are solutions
Sep 08th 2017
53
      RE: I don't get the impression Coates believes there are solutions
Sep 08th 2017
57
           I don't disagree but didn't Dubois ultimately leave the US for Ghana
Sep 09th 2017
58
                RE: I don't disagree but didn't Dubois ultimately leave the US for Ghana
Sep 09th 2017
59
                     I guess my point is Dubois changed his opinion
Sep 10th 2017
60
                          stop asking questions you know the answer to.
Sep 10th 2017
61
      he's sees himself as a journalist...he analyzes and reports/illuminates ...
Sep 18th 2017
77
I Googled that dude, that nigga ashy woke af.
Sep 17th 2017
74
      i googled him too...same. I'll pass.
Sep 18th 2017
76
RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?
Sep 11th 2017
62
Fire
Sep 11th 2017
63
I caught the Holy Ghost.
Sep 13th 2017
64
RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?
Sep 13th 2017
66
Out of curiosity
Sep 17th 2017
67
George Packer's response is worth reading
Sep 17th 2017
68
It's probably this piece here:
Sep 17th 2017
72
Yes
Sep 17th 2017
73
Respectful disagreement and critique of this piece from Antonio Moore
Sep 17th 2017
69
We might need remedial courses in math.
Sep 17th 2017
70
maaaaaaaaaan, that shit was so thorough
Sep 17th 2017
71
RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?
Sep 17th 2017
75
.
Sep 18th 2017
78
^^^^^^
Sep 18th 2017
79

Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
27269 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 10:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Can you edit this to include the audio?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://soundcloud.com/user-154380542/the-first-white-president-the-atlantic-ta-nehisi-coates

A lot of us are busy at work and this makes as an even better listen.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
39507 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 10:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "peeped this am..spot on"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-07-17 10:35 AM by ambient1

  

          

.

=======================================
Coolin...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
5796 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 10:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
3. "RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

As I was listening to Audio version this AM I really was like man... they add music on this!

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
FOLLOW ME:: twitter.com/double0music
SOUNDS: soundcloud.com/double0music

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
73008 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 10:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "his keyboard go skrrrrrrrra pa pa ka ka ka skeedy ki pa pa"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

man that was the most fire article i've read...probably since his last one lol.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
11998 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 11:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "ughhhh he killed this"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Barack Obama delivered to black people the hoary message that if they work twice as hard as white people, anything is possible. But Trump’s counter is persuasive: Work half as hard as black people, and even more is possible."

fuckkkkkk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
22772 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:27 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "RE: ughhhh he killed this"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>"Barack Obama delivered to black people the hoary message
>that if they work twice as hard as white people, anything is
>possible. But Trump’s counter is persuasive: Work half as
>hard as black people, and even more is possible."
>
>fuckkkkkk


It made me howl....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "approaching goat status."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
8059 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "this is great | when does the next book come out?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/Boogiedwn/

http://cousinofdef.tumblr.com/

https://media.giphy.com/media/mMpFjO0zvQXpm/giphy.gif

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GROOVEPHI
Charter member
10103 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "next book in October "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

its already available for pre-order on amazon

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
8059 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
11. "thanks"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

________________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/Boogiedwn/

http://cousinofdef.tumblr.com/

https://media.giphy.com/media/mMpFjO0zvQXpm/giphy.gif

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

13Rose
Charter member
19052 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
9. "His point on whiteness being the issue is spot on"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

White people are the devil. Not John, Matt, Sarah. Not the individual people but the idea of a white person is the devil and as long as it remains shit can't fully change.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
32533 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "white people basically have to dismantle their own whiteness"
In response to Reply # 9


          

which is not going to happen in this country anytime soon

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "It would take Armageddon for that to even MAYBE happen "
In response to Reply # 25
Thu Sep-07-17 07:58 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

We've been shown that their relationship with white supremacy is too intimate to abandon

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 08:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "it's gonna take like 30 years."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

white people ain't giving up white supremacy on their own, but once they lose the numbers it will start to gradually be defanged. it will always be a threat, but it won't be the existential threat to this nation that it's always been and continues to be.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
rob
Charter member
22600 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 08:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "i hope you're right. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

i worry it will take longer and i fear (because of the past 100 years) that it's a dangerous enough ideology to take the rest of the world down with it...

but there's no way white supremacy is sustainable.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 08:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "not sure if something practiced and enjoyed for 300+ can go in 30"
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Sep-07-17 09:00 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

I figure it'll take an equal amount of time just for things to be at a point where things can even begin to improve

with the average empire lasting about 300 years that doesn't give the US in particular much time as it's nearing that mark. Should the US match or beat Rome then that may be enough time

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 09:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "this is the last leg of a process that's been happening"
In response to Reply # 31
Thu Sep-07-17 09:12 PM by IkeMoses

  

          

for hundreds of years.

End of the 18th Century: Revolutionary Era, Haiti deals the first blow to slavery in the New World.

19th Century: the nation is divided over slavery.

20th Century: the nation is divided over civil rights.

21st Century: the nation is divided over changing demographics.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 09:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "last leg implies it's been waning doen't it?"
In response to Reply # 32
Thu Sep-07-17 09:07 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

The actions of white supremacists and the effects of the system have not ceased nor really diminished it would seem

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 09:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "check the edit."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "to those points it seems there is a more effective counter for each"
In response to Reply # 34
Fri Sep-08-17 09:58 AM by Atillah Moor

  

          

initiated by the agents of white supremacy

End of the 18th Century: Revolutionary Era, Haiti deals the first blow to slavery in the New World.

Toussaint Louverture - betrayed and imprisoned. Haiti never really recovered as we see today


19th Century: the nation is divided over slavery.

Reconstruction a period during which many things were improved upon or introduced (e.g. public school system IINM) by so called black and white people working together was abruptly ended via backroom deals by both northern and southern political agents. Leading to the Jim Crow era.

20th Century: the nation is divided over civil rights.

after/during which we see the introduction of crack and heroin into black neighborhoods, mass assassinations, mass incarceration, mass rioting, mass military conscription i.e. vietnam draft, redlining, gutting of the voting rights act, etc

21st Century: the nation is divided over changing demographics.

Extrajudical killings brought into the media spotlight as well as their upholding by court systems, an unabashed and unhinged white supremacist in the white house, and whatever else is to come


The pattern does not appear to confirm what you suggest -- respectfully.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 12:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "None of that contradicts what I said at all."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

There's been a struggle with White Supremacy for over half of a millennia now.

There has been progress and pushback to the progress and progress against the pushback and pushback to the progress against the pushback.

It's been a process, but we are undeniably not in the same position we were 50 years ago, and we're definitely not in the same position we were 500 years ago.

30 years from now, we'll be almost a century removed from the start of the Civil Rights Era. Whites will no longer be the majority in the United States. White Supremacy will still be a threat, but it will not have the power it does today.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "stabbing a man in the back and pulling the knife half out ain't progress"
In response to Reply # 45
Fri Sep-08-17 02:50 PM by Atillah Moor

  

          

to paraphrase Malcolm X. That's my personal view of where the Nation is at as far as progress goes. It appears that things are different but the context or end results rather are still the same.

>There's been a struggle with White Supremacy for over half of
>a millennia now.

Who is struggling with it? Not white people IMO

>There has been progress and pushback to the progress and
>progress against the pushback and pushback to the progress
>against the pushback.

Right, the knife is halfway out

>It's been a process, but we are undeniably not in the same
>position we were 50 years ago, and we're definitely not in the
>same position we were 500 years ago.

This for me is where it gets muddy. Slavery is gone but now you have mass incarceration in it's place. Legally mandated segregation is gone but now folks economically segregate among other ways e.g. socially.

>30 years from now, we'll be almost a century removed from the
>start of the Civil Rights Era. Whites will no longer be the
>majority in the United States. White Supremacy will still be a
>threat, but it will not have the power it does today.

Even IF whites allow themselves to become a minority they will still hold the wealth which will mean white supremacy will still thrive, just like South Africa

We don't disagree that ultimately it will come to an end, I just can't see it being without a good amount of bloodshed and catastrophe.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 02:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "You gotta let go of that self-defeatism, my brother"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

White people ain't omnipotent and this power structure ain't eternal.

It just started with the Colombian exchange and it's been slowly falling apart for centuries, because the shit just don't work in the modern world.

Eyes on the prize, fam.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 10:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "Isn't that the type of response Coates says people make "
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

When confronted with the hard truths and facts? The conversation suddenly becomes why are you so cynical/pessimistic/defeatist. Not saying my argument is that sound, but there seems to be some similarities.

I'm also not saying white supremacy is omnipotent and an everlasting scourge. I'm saying it has a course to run and if the white population decreases they will still hold the wealth until a calamity of some sort removes that wealth and the power that goes with it. To think it will simply go out with a whimper or peaceful transfer of power is not realistic.

There's a very heavy price to pay for what America's founders, its society, and the leaders of that society have trafficked in and it doesn't appears to have been paid in full, but the collection process seems to have begun IMO

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
73008 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "yep i realize this even w/ my "woke" white friends"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

its just some shit they just flat out dont get/acknowledge because they can't imagine what it's like to not be a white person.

i remember talking to a buddy over beers/dinner after work on friday and kaepernick popped up on the screen. we went back and forth a bit and my buddy was like "i love the police. theyre great. they're just here to help. i just think black people blow it out of proportion what's happening. i mean brooklynwhat i've never heard you complain about an issue with police. hell you have police departments as clients. and your mom was in the military and he's disrespecting the anthem and her blah blah blah blah"

and the rest of the table just hit a facepalm because they knew what was coming. when i tell you i laid into him after that...oh man. i ran off every bad interaction i've had with police since i was 8 years old (that first incident was actually the worst and most educative) and every incident i could think of across the board from the news. and breh was just silent until i finished. and i could see by the embarrassment on his face that it was just him talking from a position of pure ignorance rather than hate/racism. he just never actually considered that our experiences were just so wildly different.

so i say all that to say that just the cloak of whiteness itself creates a grand canyon between them and everyone else.

i've had to hip my white friends many times to the fact that supporting us is not the same as running down your fellow white folks for being racist POSs

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "most don't even know that the anthem is fucking racist "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Backbone
Charter member
8122 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 12:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "Good looking out, great read."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 02:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "is this his Amy Goodman interview? didn't click "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BigReg
Charter member
61805 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 02:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
13. "Nah, a new long form article a la 'Case for Reparations'"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 02:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "still listening. Ta Nehisi is that dude "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
32533 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 04:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "omg Reg, thank you"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"...to accept that whiteness brought us Donald Trump is to accept whiteness as an existential danger to the country and the world. But if the broad and remarkable white support for Donald Trump can be reduced to the righteous anger of a noble class of smallville firefighters and evangelicals, mocked by Brooklyn hipsters and womanist professors into voting against their interests, then the threat of racism and whiteness, the threat of the heirloom, can be dismissed. Consciences can be eased; no deeper existential reckoning is required."

yup

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

poetx
Charter member
57517 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 06:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "man, TNC spitting that pure THC. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rob
Charter member
22600 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 06:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "he's so on point. i just hope he keeps speaking writing publishing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 06:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "he needs to, so i can cop dat vol. 1 anthology in a few years."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rob
Charter member
22600 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "first author from my generation that I'm sure teenagers will be "discove..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

in a generation or two.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Binlahab
Charter member
182348 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 06:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "MORE FIRE!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im so proud of this guy man

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 06:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "here's his Charlottesville interview I didn't see any posts about it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/15/full_interview_ta_nehisi_coates_on

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7270 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "Jesus Christ....to call this article etherous would be an understatement..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Coates takes his classic style (make a bombastic claim, prove it, slaughter all incoming rebuttals) and, in my opinion, turned up the shade levels more than a couple notches.

For me, this article was the literary equivalent of Tony Montana standing on top of the stairs spraying everyone moving. I haven't read an article this vicious since Michael Eric Dyson took Fredo (Cornel West) out fishing.

I actually reacted to this essay the way someone would react to Loaded Lux battle verse.
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "Colonel West is somewhere mad AF right now "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "most black public intellectuals been on notice since TNC got started."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

TNC been in the field doing actual research, conducting interviews, and being a prolific motherfucker while Cornel out here hating on social media and hoping Bill Maher gives him a call this week.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bignick
Charter member
23573 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Also, almost getting killed counter protesting nazis"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

But, you know, don't let me stop you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
1741 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 10:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "True"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

Atillah and Ike went too far shitting on Cornel.

---------------------------
Stalking

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 12:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "true. respect for his continued protesting"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

my point still stands though.

he's put in too much effort trying to convince himself and everybody else that he's a prophet, that he's largely given up on the search for truth.

not to be too cynical about it (because I value protest still), but being a martyr to nazis would just elevate his prophet status.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
22772 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:30 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "RE: most black public intellectuals been on notice since TNC got started..."
In response to Reply # 24
Fri Sep-08-17 11:34 AM by murph71

          

>TNC been in the field doing actual research, conducting
>interviews, and being a prolific motherfucker while Cornel out
>here hating on social media and hoping Bill Maher gives him a
>call this week.


lol...so true....

But I will give the old man props for staring down those Nazi bastards.....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
infin8
Charter member
8261 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 02:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "why did I laugh reading this. "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

you a fool.

also: #facts

IG: amadu_me

http://bumps.bandcamp.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
1741 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I didn't know about this piece.

---------------------------
Stalking

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4763 posts
Thu Sep-07-17 07:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "oh my lawd"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he really came with it. this was incredible

----------
http://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
18595 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "👏🏽🙏🏽🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 FUEGO TAKE. "
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-08-17 11:06 AM by double negative

  

          

who spilled the tea?!

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PROMO
Charter member
23845 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
39. "* STANDING OVATION *"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

STAND OUT HAND OUTS: http://basquiatwhenipaint.tumblr.com

TWEET ME: @PROMO206

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 01:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
46. "I prefer Diallo Kenyatta, but TNC is good for mainstream"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Black folks who are "woke".


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
13Rose
Charter member
19052 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
47. "Don't change"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

ever.

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
http://dashaunworld.wordpress.com/
www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
50. "TNC = Liberal Complaints and Appeals, lacking Solutions. "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

He’s a good writer, but I don’t think he goes far enough asserting what needs to be done about the injustices he often articulates. I appreciate his honesty in articulating his own fears, pains, trails, and perseverance; but beyond that, I think he essentially continues in the legacy of other Integrationist, who have concluded that there are solutions embedded within the very Systems and Institutions that create and profit from the problems.

He’s currently the Black darling of the White Liberal Establishment, so I think we’ll have to wait for him to be replaced by a New Black darling before he can commit his talents and intelligence to more Racial analysis and advocacy.

The same thing happened to Cornell West, who was a White Liberal Establishment’s Black darling; as soon as they cast him aside he became a little more Radical, fucking around with Revolutionary Communist and shit. LOL! So, maybe TC will go that same route.

Or he may still remain true to his Liberal Integrationist roots even after he’s replaced by a new darling; like Van Jones did when White Leftist Establishment cast him aside.



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7270 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "you're right about the solutions...."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I see TNC as more of a fatalist so, to me, his work tends to be an extension of that. To offer up plausible solutions at a considerable clip takes at least an undercurrent of optimism that I feel TNC doesn't value highly. The history is just so consistently depressing and disconcerting.


---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
IkeMoses
Charter member
70123 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 10:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "His pessimism is the major flaw I have with his work."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

Not that he needs to be optimistic either.

Both orientations assume conclusions to a struggle that hasn't concluded. Optimism leads to inactivity because the assumption is that everything will naturally work out. Pessimism leads to inactivity because the assumption is nothing will work.

We can't afford assumptions. We gotta have the courage to keep testing what we believe until we find some damn answers.

-30-
You know it's drama, but it sound real good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
56. "Yes, yes & yes."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

>Optimism leads to inactivity because the assumption
>is that everything will naturally work out. Pessimism leads to
>inactivity because the assumption is nothing will work.
>
>We can't afford assumptions. We gotta have the courage to keep
>testing what we believe until we find some damn answers.


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7270 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "you're right about the solutions...."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I see TNC as more of a fatalist so, to me, his work tends to be an extension of that. To offer up plausible solutions at a considerable clip takes at least an undercurrent of optimism that I feel TNC doesn't value highly. The history is just so consistently depressing and disconcerting.


---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 09:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "I don't get the impression Coates believes there are solutions "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

Much like Dubois who retired concluding that there is none

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Fri Sep-08-17 11:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
57. "RE: I don't get the impression Coates believes there are solutions "
In response to Reply # 53
Fri Sep-08-17 11:41 PM by isaaaa

  

          

>Much like Dubois who retired concluding that there is none

The fatal flaw in all of Dubois' positions is that he was an Integrationist, as was Booker T Washington, they just had divergent plans or methods for Integrating with our oppressors; Integration with a System or State founded on our oppression does not work, no matter if you integrate based on industrial skills, or academic achievement and political engagement.

Over the last 100+ years we’ve had people follow and achieve on both of these men’s plans, using both of their methods; and yet overall we are stagnant or losing ground.

Marcus Garvey was a perfect marriage between Washington and DuBois and he eliminated the fatal flaw in both of their plans and ideologies; that’s why he was subverted and expelled from the nation while Washington and DuBois were allowed to operate in the US for decades and received millions in funding from White benefactors, because the White Elites knew both of their plans were no threat to the Systems and Institutions of White Domination, but Garvey’s agenda was.




Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Sat Sep-09-17 12:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "I don't disagree but didn't Dubois ultimately leave the US for Ghana"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

believing that there could be no true integration?

Is Coats an integrationist? That doesn't appear to be his stance but I haven't read enough to really know one way or the other.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Sat Sep-09-17 10:19 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
59. "RE: I don't disagree but didn't Dubois ultimately leave the US for Ghana"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

DuBois had the right to leave, he was old and he lived long enough to see how his methodology for Black Change/Struggle had failed. Although not a complete failure because revolution is a process, and he was a great part of the process. I met his Son or Grandson (also a Dr. Dubois) and I got to read some of his hand written letters, awesome experience paid for by W. Bush & the GOP.



>believing that there could be no true integration?
>
>Is Coats an integrationist? That doesn't appear to be his
>stance but I haven't read enough to really know one way or the
>other.

He (Coates) is currently the Black darling of the White Liberal Establishment, so I think we’ll have to wait for him to be replaced by a New Black darling before he can commit his talents and intelligence to more Racial analysis and advocacy. So right now he's a full fledged integrationist, his paychecks depend on it.




Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Atillah Moor
Member since Sep 05th 2013
12294 posts
Sun Sep-10-17 07:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "I guess my point is Dubois changed his opinion "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

He realized integration/acceptance or whatever we want to call black people not being systemically treated unjustly was impossible. So he didn't die an integrationist is what I'm saying; that wasn't his ultimate outlook.

What to you makes Coates an integrationist is what I'm trying to ask. His being on liberal (or mostly liberal) platforms? That doesn't seem like much of qualifier, but then again his paychecks come from systems that are ultimately supremacist I maybe understand from that perspective. Someone said the Atlantic was white owned which I guess proves your point to a degree.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
isaaaa
Member since May 10th 2007
29400 posts
Sun Sep-10-17 09:54 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
61. "stop asking questions you know the answer to. "
In response to Reply # 60


  

          


>His being on liberal (or mostly liberal) platforms?
>That doesn't seem like much of qualifier, but then again his
>paychecks come from systems that are ultimately supremacist I
>maybe understand from that perspective. Someone said the
>Atlantic was white owned which I guess proves your point to a
>degree.


YES, and yes.

As for Coates, he is the one now....but Cornell West used to be the one, he was the White Liberal Establishment’s Black darling; as soon as they cast him aside he became a tad more radical, fucking around with Revolutionary Communists! So, maybe TC will go that same route.

Or he may still remain true to his Liberal Integrationist roots even after he’s replaced by a new darling; like Van Jones did when White Leftist Establishment cast him aside.

Time will tell.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
32533 posts
Mon Sep-18-17 12:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "he's sees himself as a journalist...he analyzes and reports/illuminates ..."
In response to Reply # 50
Mon Sep-18-17 12:29 AM by Damali

          

there should be no more expectation for him to provide solutions than there is of Rachel Maddow or Ted Koppel

he addressed this very idea of him being a fatalist on Chris Hayes show...i think that is an unfair critique of him.

him being a black writer who realistically articulates the state of us places him in a precarious position of being viewed as a savior of sorts and he is not that..and should not be expected to play that role (not saying you're doing that...just saying, in general)

d

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
127233 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 08:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
74. "I Googled that dude, that nigga ashy woke af."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

Wake me when he gets off bullshit like "the gay agenda", if I wanted right-wing black I'd go listen to David Clarke talk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
32533 posts
Mon Sep-18-17 12:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "i googled him too...same. I'll pass."
In response to Reply # 74


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
27727 posts
Mon Sep-11-17 01:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

AFRICAN
Charter member
11680 posts
Mon Sep-11-17 05:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "Fire"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Pessimism aside, he's in the pantheon.
In an era of writers throwing out catchy phrases and glossing over uncomfortable issues he digs deeper.

http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
instagram:@3rdworldview
Blessed be the Lord /who believe any mess they read up on the message board

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SoWhat
Charter member
153142 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 07:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "I caught the Holy Ghost."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Make me wanna buy him a short set. Take him to Red Lobster.

______________________
"It's absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." Oscar Wilde

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

gravity508
Charter member
16462 posts
Wed Sep-13-17 02:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ohhhhhh

!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
www.sneakshot.net
www.thecouchsessions.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Numba_33
Charter member
16054 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "Out of curiosity"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

did any of the publications or reporters/writers that Ta-Nehisi called out in this article issue any responses?

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Backbone
Charter member
8122 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 12:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "George Packer's response is worth reading"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2017/09/ta-nehisi-coates-george-packer-white-president/539976/

I remember someone on Twitter mentioning another piece, though not in a positive light. I forgot the names, unfortunately.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11113 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 03:16 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "It's probably this piece here:"
In response to Reply # 68
Sun Sep-17-17 03:18 PM by denny

          

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/open-letter-ta-nehisi-coates/

It's been making the rounds on twitter.

I've been too busy this weekend to do anything except skim over Coates' stuff so I haven't read it yet. (it's also long as hell)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Lurkmode
Member since May 07th 2011
1741 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 03:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "Yes"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whitesplaining-ta-nehisi-coates_us_59bd669be4b0390a1564de21



>did any of the publications or reporters/writers that
>Ta-Nehisi called out in this article issue any responses?

---------------------------
Stalking

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
9711 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "Respectful disagreement and critique of this piece from Antonio Moore"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

25 minute video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elba5h60uQE

The article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-isnt-our-first-white-president-and-he_us_59baf98ee4b02c642e4a1511

Hot takes:

There is an added historical irony to Trump’s win that further undercuts Coates’ first white president claim: Trump didn’t win the popular vote; he won the Electoral College. This is no mere technicality: the Electoral College was built to appease slave owners, an additional check embedded into the Constitution against the anti-slavery majority that threatened to overwhelm the South if genuine democracy were to go into practice.

Those checks — the Electoral College, the design of the Senate, federalism more broadly — have been employed most often in their intended manner, in the defense of whiteness. That the Electoral College performed its intended function in 2016 does not make Trump the first white president, it made him one more.

It’s not clear how much attention Coates paid to the election. The assertion that Trump supporters were backing their man solely for reasons of economic anxiety was far from conventional wisdom, whatever George Packer or other liberals Coates cited may have believed. The claim was so dubious that it spawned a running joke — whenever a Trump backer would engage in some form of overt, undeniably explicit racism, the quip would be: there goes another guy with economic anxiety.
_____________________________
Trump is not the face of whiteness; rather, he is its reflection, a glimmer of what happens when capital runs amuck. No more than a callback to when wealth was borne out of black bodies. The call by some to use the tragedy of black history to sensationalize his rise in the light of times past is seeing this problem through the wrong lens.

Coates does just that in his new piece for The Atlantic, titled “The First White President”. He asserts Trump to be someone who moves past where prior white presidents had gone with white privilege. Coates piece puts forth a patently absurd argument, writing,

“To Trump, whiteness is neither notional nor symbolic but is the very core of his power. In this, Trump is not singular. But whereas his forebears carried whiteness like an ancestral talisman, Trump cracked the glowing amulet open, releasing its eldritch energies.”.
Donald J. Trump is far from the first manifestation of whiteness in the Oval Office. Trump’s ascension did not occur by happenstance, nor magic no matter how many amulets Coates presents to prove the case. We now live in a country where half of black homes, or 7.5 million black families are worth less than $1,700 without depreciating assets like the family car — while over 8 million white families are worth more than 1.4 million dollars each. Whiteness is not a magic power for an individual; it is a communal asset, which requires the failures of blackness to exist. Trump can not be used to escape the reality of our country’s deep-seated historical inequity. The asset of whiteness is one that millions of white Americans access and make use of daily, like a fraternal marking granting passage into a better America.

No matter how many ways you spin it, Trump’s rise is the result of the White politics Republicans have been running since at least 1968. This is a difficult counterpoint for Coates to grapple with, as it undermines so much of how we deal both with Trump’s rise — and how it fits next to the Obama presidency.
_________________
Coates, for his own part, famously shies away from offering answers to the problems he often so deftly identifies. But he has no problem ruling some answers out. He rules out class-based, left wing politics:

“The triumph of Trump’s campaign of bigotry presented the problematic spectacle of an American president succeeding at best in spite of his racism and possibly because of it. Trump moved racism from the euphemistic and plausibly deniable to the overt and freely claimed. This presented the country’s thinking class with a dilemma. Hillary Clinton simply could not be correct when she asserted that a large group of Americans was endorsing a candidate because of bigotry. The implications—that systemic bigotry is still central to our politics; that the country is susceptible to such bigotry; that the salt-of-the-earth Americans whom we lionize in our culture and politics are not so different from those same Americans who grin back at us in lynching photos; that Calhoun’s aim of a pan-Caucasian embrace between workers and capitalists still endures—were just too dark. Leftists would have to cope with the failure, yet again, of class unity in the face of racism. Incorporating all of this into an analysis of America and the path forward proved too much to ask. Instead, the response has largely been an argument aimed at emotion—the summoning of the white working class, emblem of America’s hardscrabble roots, inheritor of its pioneer spirit, as a shield against the horrific and empirical evidence of trenchant bigotry.”
One wonders what campaign Coates is talking about. Is he misremembering the result of the 2016 Democratic primary? Bernie Sanders the candidate arguing for a class-based approach to countering Trump and the GOP lost to Hillary Clinton. As Michelle Alexander, author of the acclaimed book the New Jim Crow, put it in her scathing review of the Hillary Clinton campaign for The Nation, “Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote”

But what about a larger agenda that would not just reverse some of the policies adopted during the Clinton era, but would rebuild the communities decimated by them? If you listen closely here, you’ll notice that Hillary Clinton is still singing the same old tune in a slightly different key. She is arguing that we ought not be seduced by Bernie’s rhetoric because we must be “pragmatic,” “face political realities,” and not get tempted to believe that we can fight for economic justice and win. When politicians start telling you that it is “unrealistic” to support candidates who want to build a movement for greater equality, fair wages, universal healthcare, and an end to corporate control of our political system, it’s probably best to leave the room.
The strategy that Coates says was discredited by Trump’s victory was never put into practice. Now, perhaps it would have failed, but suggesting that Hillary Clinton marched forward on a platform of class unity in the face of racism is a farce.
_________________________
Coates also grounds his argument by asserting Barack Obama’s legacy is now being attacked.

“But Donald Trump arrived in the wake of something more potent—an entire nigger presidency with nigger health care, nigger climate accords, and nigger justice reform, all of which could be targeted for destruction or redemption, thus reifying the idea of being white. Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president.”
Yet, no black pen can repaint a white lie about what happened during President Obama’s eight years on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Under Obama Black America suffered some of the worst years, it had seen since the Civil Rights movement. Fanfare about Barack Obama as a individual distorts many like Coates from clearly admitting to the impact Obama’s administration had on African American families across the country. Under Obama the amount of Small Business loans given to African Americans reached a low of 1.8%, while under Bush black recipients were over 8% of the program. Under the Bush Administration the unemployment rate for African-Americans was 10%, while under President Obama it jumped to well over 14%. African-American homeownership even dropped to nearly a 50-year low over the last 8 years. In total the wealth gap between white America and black America grew substantially under President Obama.

While in this mixed up place called America we are all bastards of some sort, to be half Kenyan, and half white is a different kind of mix. It is the kind of mix that allows you to create what Coates called so brazenly a “nigger presidency”, without doing anything for those who bear the multi-generational historical cost of being called a nigger.
____________________________
We must not fall into the trap of contrasting Barack Obama to Donald Trump based on appearance, rather we must draw them as parallels based on the energy behind their respective meteoric political rises. While Trump is Obama’s senior in age, it is Obama who had two years as the United States Senator of Illinois prior to his election. Yet, this is hardly the resume of a President. Rather, it is celebrity that boosted Obama, no different than President Trump. Pictures with Jay Z, dinners with Oprah, and an overall fervor of connecting Obama to the legacy of American slavery propelled President Obama past the requisite resume to be Commander in Chief. Much the same occurred for Trump, who was able to use the cache of notoriety, and fervor for change to run as the other option for America to Hillary Clinton’s sameness. These two men are less contrast, and more parallels.

Attempts by everyone from Coates to Jemele Hill of ESPN to vilify Trump by lining him up with the label of white nationalist, will not change the fact that as recently as 2004 he identified as a Democrat. Nor that many notable black entertainers can be found in photo ops with him throughout the internet, from Puff Daddy who calls Trump a friend, to Serena Williams who danced the night away in 2015 with Donald Trump at his New Year’s Eve Party. Without this type of validation of the Trump brand by black celebrity, it’s possible we don’t have a Trump presidency.
____________________________________

For Coates essay to be as ahistorical as it is shocks readers who’ve come to respect the essayist for his deep familiarity with our history. He dips into that well of knowledge when he needs to for this piece, quoting, for instance, Jefferson Davis, the first and only president of the Confederacy.

“I say that the lower race of human beings that constitute the substratum of what is termed the slave population of the South, elevates every white man in our community … It is the presence of a lower caste, those lower by their mental and physical organization, controlled by the higher intellect of the white man, that gives this superiority to the white laborer. Menial services are not there performed by the white man. We have none of our brethren sunk to the degradation of being menials. That belongs to the lower race—the descendants of Ham.”
He knows, certainly, that Davis was more than just the president of the rebel states. In 1852, Democrats vaulted the pro-slavery Franklin Pierce to the White House. An alcoholic and a charlatan, he was barely a figurehead, and turned the operation of the government over to the man who’d gotten him elected, his Secretary of War, Jefferson Davis. From that perch, Davis, among other crimes, waged war in Kansas to extend the reach of slavery, just one presidential term before the Confederacy seceded. Coates knows as well as anybody, these are the stories that riddle throughout our presidential history.

+
+
+
+
+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOlIBR_J-Wo
Everything's turning out perfectly

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11113 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 02:19 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "We might need remedial courses in math."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Sep-17-17 02:38 PM by denny

          

There is NO Obama presidency if the population votes based on racial identity politics. It's called the 'tyranny of the majority'. lol

The ONLY way a racial minority or lbgt candidate can win ANYTHING is if the population votes based on ideas and issues and philosophies rather than their racial/sexual identity. Numbers are real things lol.

In other news....water is wet.

'All politics is identity politics'. smh. Keep those stupid anti-intellectual communist slogans out of our society.

And what a bullshit contention that we only call non-white politics 'identity politics'. White people are certainly capable of partaking in identity politics. They're called 'the alt-right'.

Ideas HAVE to come before identity. None of us want to live in a society in which this is not the case.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
127233 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 02:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
71. "maaaaaaaaaan, that shit was so thorough"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the numbers, the angles. undeniable.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11113 posts
Sun Sep-17-17 09:31 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "RE: No New Post on that new Ta-Nehisi Coates mixtape?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Sep-17-17 09:38 PM by denny

          

His characterization of the 'rendition' is pretty fair and accurate:

“We so obviously despise them, we so obviously condescend to them,” the conservative social scientist Charles Murray, who co-wrote The Bell Curve, recently told The New Yorker, speaking of the white working class. “The only slur you can use at a dinner party and get away with is to call somebody a redneck—that won’t give you any problems in Manhattan.

The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes,” charged the celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain, “is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we’re seeing now.”


Firstly, Coates does well to represent that viewpoint fairly. His first attempts to disprove this view (henceforth referred to as 'the rendition') by identifying Trump's massive white coalition. 'It wasn't just poor whites that voted Trump'. But there's a huge error in his statistical analysis. He points to Trump's rich white votes as evidence the rendition is wrong. But rich white people ALWAYS have voted Republican. What we need to look at is the disparity between Obama's two election results and Hillary Clinton's. And contrasting those two makes it pretty clear that Obama received considerably more votes from poor whites than Clinton did. Rich white people didn't vote for Obama just like they didn't vote for Clinton. The CHANGE was that Obama got alot more poor white votes than Clinton did and that certainly DOES lend credence to the 'rendition' provided by Murray and Bourdain. (It should be noted that another huge disparity was voter turnout amongst racial minorities and that made a significant impact as well)

Coates repeatedly refers to Trump's white coalition as a 'transfiguration' or more accurately (as he states) 'a return to form'. But again....the voting patterns really didn't change much from Obama's elections and Trumps. Minorities voted less....and a chunk of poor white voters switched from democrat to republican. Virtually everything else stayed more or less the same. And understanding that makes a large portion of Coate's text seem ridiculous (and extremely selective in data analysis). And that's not even to mention the question EVERY single clear-thinking person would ask (and Coates skates around over and over again)....which is 'why did Obama do better with white voters than Hillary?'. And....to be blunt....how did a black man win a presidential election in a society founded on (and currently based on) white supremacy in the first place? If Trump's voters were motivated by their inherited white supremacy....why weren't they motivated by white supremacy during Obama's years?

Coates then sets his sights on the internal debate within the left that's been going on for years. Its essentially a battle over WHICH elements of one's identity they should embrace and which ones they should set aside. He correctly identifies the faction of the left that claims we should set aside 'identity politics' because they distract us from the TRUE oppression outlined by Marxist philosophy. In other words....race is used as a dividing tactic so that the proletariat doesn't unite. 'Emphasize your identity in terms of class instead of race so that working class people can unite and take power back from the evil rich people' type of thing. Coates argues that black people should do the inverse. They should minimize their class identity (shared with white people) and emphasize their racial identity in it's place. And he references proletariat advocates from hundreds of years ago to make this point. I don't see how those historical references are relevant but they certainly ARE convenient.

Fact is...one would have a rather difficult time finding current Marxists saying explicitly racist things. Coates seems to think that the Marxist leftists of today are 'hiding' their racism and we can prove that by quoting Marxists (rather selectively) from a hundred years ago. I argue that if modern day Marxist protesters are REALLY racist...we should be able to prove it by quoting THEM. Not by quoting Scottish Marxists from the 1800s. (as a side note....anyone that knows anything about MLK would know that he was definitely NOT on board with Coate's abandoning non-black Marxist leftists. He really shouldn't reference MLK unless he's willing to identify MLK's allegiance to proletariat causes beyond racial identities and argue against it)

When referring to Bernie Sanders....Coates writes 'The upshot—attacking one specimen of identity politics after having invoked another—was unfortunate.' But this is EXACTLY what he is doing. He is very clearly invoking black identity while attacking working class identity. I would argue that the leftist position he's attacking....characterized by 'we should forget about race identity because it's distracting us from the REAL oppression of proletariat-bourgeois dynamics'....is ALSO guilty of the same thing. And I remember confronting this at university campus in the 90's.....I would say 'well aren't you just saying engage in THIS identity politic (being working class) and ignore THIS one (race). Coates is simply doing the inverse. Ignore your class identity and focus on the race. My SO takes considerable issue with this contention. Does a poor black American have more in common with Will Smith than his poor white neighbor? There's alot to talk about there but moving on.....

Perhaps the most ridiculous claim that Coates makes is that identity politics gave us Barack Obama for 8 years. He makes this claim because it was identity politics that motivated record turnout in the black vote. It's just such an absurd claim. If the entire country was motivated by racial identity politics an Obama presidency would be IMPOSSIBLE. White people who vote for Obama were not motivated by race identity politics. If they were...they would have voted for the white guys. THE ONLY WAY A MINORITY (by race, sexual preference or any other form) CAN GAIN POWER IN A DEMOCRACY IS IF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT motivated by identity politics. It's completely ridiculous for him to assert that Obama's success was a result of identity politics when, in fact, his success was a result of the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of identity politics. White people voted for Obama because of the ISSUES and his ideas.

Identity politics, when taken to their logical extreme, are absolutely disastrous for minorities. It would result in the 'tyranny of the majority'. Coates writes 'All politics are identity politics—except the politics of white people, the politics of the bloody heirloom.' Fucking ridiculous. When a straight person marches for gay marraige...they are NOT engaging in identity politics. They are fighting for gay marraige because it's the ethical position....not because they identify as 'straight'. And only ONE example disproves Coate's claim because he is so absolute about it. Also....we certainly DO rightfully identify when white people engage in identity politics. The alt-right is white and engaging in identity politics.

I can't wait to get Coate's book though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jane eyre
Member since Jan 16th 2007
625 posts
Mon Sep-18-17 02:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "."
In response to Reply # 0


          

James Baldwin says in his essay "On Being White and Other Lies":

"America became white—the people who, as they claim, "settled" the country became white—because of the necessity of denying the Black presence, and justifying the Black subjugation. No community can be based on such a principle—or, in other words, no community can be established on so genocidal a lie.

White men—from Norway, for example, where they were Norwegians—became white: by slaughtering the cattle, poisoning the wells, torching the houses, massacring Native Americans, raping Black women. This moral erosion has made it quite impossible for those who think of themselves as white in this country to have any moral authority at all—privately, or publicly."

Coates' recent article/essay isn't beyond critique.

However, responses and critiques about his essay that don't acknowledge, accept, and appropriately wrestle with the moral weight of racism on the individual/collective American psyche and soul are without merit.

In particular, how does one critique Coates if they have no "moral authority at all" around the issue of race? I want to read the response to Coates that resolves that conundrum, and not through denial, disagreement, guilt, or a litany of causes which must be the case in lieu of race. What would the tone of that essay take?

I want to read the response to Coates that attempts to climb out of the position of no "moral authority at all" by accepting it-- instead of trying to pull people into corroborating the arrogant, ignorant lie that naming or refusing to accept the positions asserted by one with no "moral authority at all" is a misunderstanding and obsession with something that's explained by something as stupid as identity politics (or worse yet, a misconception shaped by non-whiteness).



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11113 posts
Mon Sep-18-17 04:30 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 78


          

There are people in Jane's world that are literally born into identities that have 'no moral authority at all'. At the same time Jane thinks characterizing viewpoints as being based on identity politics is stupid.

Jane hopes that someday people who hold those identities that have no 'moral authority at all' can find a way to make amends for their inherited transgressions without referring to the act by which they are identified as transgressors.

Am I reading that right?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby General Discussion topic #13192182 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com