Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Sports topic #2141355

Subject: "Jeremy Lin >>than Carmelo/Wade (analytics from SLOAN)" Previous topic | Next topic
ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
43353 posts
Tue Mar-05-13 08:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"Jeremy Lin >>than Carmelo/Wade (analytics from SLOAN)"
Tue Mar-05-13 08:59 AM by ShawndmeSlanted

  

          

lol u mad?








Nah not really. This is an agenda free post, but now that I got you all in here I think whether your with or against analytics in basketball there were some really good/short podcasts from SLOAN this weekend that are worth your time. For those of you who study analytics--a lot of this is not new, but unless you have some insider info--there is still some insightful information here.

HERE: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=9012769 (podcast version)


For those of you not into analytics a) I think theres some real good basic information around how they can be used and b) there's just some good behind the scenes antecdotal information that talks about the backrooms and war rooms of NBA player trades and acquisitions.

I really think these are worth a listen. The podcast version has 3 interviews with Zach Lowe that are like 15 min each. During my commute I broke down each one for you so you can ffwd around if you want.

1) Daryl Morey- say what you will about Morey. I think he's one of the most important GMS in sports whether his moves are right or wrong because of the level of transparency he has. The insight he gives allow us common fans to get an idea of what really happens in the back rooms of our favorite teams.

1:30 Talks briefly about how Sloan has come from 50 ppl to 3k, and that he uses it to find people to work for him.
2:10 Great insight on the anatomy of how NBA trades happen. (recommended)
6:50 Kyle Lowry Trade for picks leading to James Harden
7:40 Harden expectations
8:38 Omer Asik and his defensive importance to Houston
11:35 How the Rockets were waaaay off the radar prior to acquiring Lin, Harden, and Omer. (HI SPM)
12:40 Restricted FA offer sheet insight.
17:07 Chandler Parsons has asked to have his contract restructured (recommended)
19:05 Talks about how trades affect team rotations and how coaching staffs feel about trades. This gave me an idea that Mchale and crew weren't thrilled giving PPAt to Sac in the midst of a playoff race but that not all moves are done with the blessings of all sides.

2)Can't remember the name of the guy but the VP of STATS--the company who introduced the SPORTSVU cameras that record like 25 frames a second of geodata on an NBA court. Listen to this and ask yourself why your team doesnt have this yet (15 teams have it). I mean its just data--but youre at a competitive disadvantage if your team doesnt have this .

24:50-talks about the cameras and their basic use. How they provide contextual information to traditional bobby boxscores.
27:12 rehash of Kevin Love being the hardest runner in the league.
29:18 names the 15 teams that have it including the Knicks who are surprising because theyre a big money market team.
29:44 NYK analytic talk
30:44 Y'all will love this CARMELO TALK: last 2 seasons Carmelo leads NBA in EFG (effective FG % buckets off his direct passes) Thats right leads the league--not just F's. I think the number was 61%
34:20 cant read what I wrote lol
36:30 Rudy Gay Trade and some anecdotal evidence around what analytics may tell (Memph surprisingly doesnt have cameras yet)

3) Ben Alamar former VP of Analytics for OKC (this was a good listen for me)

38:50 Thunders analytical decision behind drafting Wessy. In that draft they were down to drafting 2 guys, Wessy or Brook Lopez (who fell to 10)

44:30 Analytical data available on Ibaka or other overseas players.

45:50 How to get decision makers to look at analytics from nerds.

48:20 Krossover game he developed where you watch game film and make decisions. Interestingly enough--it shows that players make decisions better and faster than front office guys...Their brains just work differently. i havent played it yet myself but am gonna get on it once I clear up some morning work.

check this: http://www.krossover.com/


BONUS: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/espn-the-b.s.-report-bill/id254098743
This weeks BS report--Bill sits down with Zach Lowe again fresh off his weekend at SLOAN.

Ive only listened to the 1st 10 minutes but was really excited by what I heard. Sounds like theyre breaking down the best stuff from the weekend. Right now where Im at theyre talking Defense and Lowe's obsession with NBA defense--was interesting to me considering that Elite NBA PG post.



I'd love it if a bunch of yall listened to these and we could talk about this stuff in this post. I didnt used to be an analytics guy at all. If you look back far enough in the archives you might find a post or two of me hating on them, but I have to say all this information about basketball really excites me. Whether its right or wrong--just more sports shit to talk about.

I guess Im a NERD too


---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote


Jeremy Lin >>than Carmelo/Wade (analytics from SLOAN) [View all] , ShawndmeSlanted, Tue Mar-05-13 08:58 AM
 
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'll Give It A Listen
Mar 05th 2013
1
I agree
Mar 05th 2013
3
      stop doing this
Mar 06th 2013
8
      RE: stop doing this
Mar 06th 2013
16
           fair enough
Mar 06th 2013
18
           It's shinebox, not shoeshine...
Mar 06th 2013
23
                RE: It's shinebox, not shoeshine...
Mar 06th 2013
78
      no one on this board is fire and brimstone.
Mar 06th 2013
9
           c'mon
Mar 06th 2013
14
                this is such good proof that analytics HELP
Mar 06th 2013
17
                RE: this is such good proof that analytics HELP
Mar 06th 2013
20
                     every team had someone at sloan.
Mar 06th 2013
36
                oh, come on
Mar 06th 2013
22
Listening now. Thanks. n/m
Mar 05th 2013
2
dope would love to hear your thoughts
Mar 05th 2013
4
      Nah, lots of new information
Mar 06th 2013
12
Carmelo's pass recipients lead the league in eFG% huh?
Mar 05th 2013
5
Morey gives off notes off Tarantino
Mar 05th 2013
6
No, it means that he makes the right pass, Einstein.
Mar 06th 2013
10
him and amare have looked really really good on the floor
Mar 06th 2013
13
the stat makes sense.
Mar 06th 2013
19
      if you also look at who Melo plays with
Mar 06th 2013
21
      that's another thing i didn't point out.
Mar 06th 2013
24
           So basically, the stat is meaningful and Carmelo is really good.
Mar 06th 2013
25
                i wouldn't go quite that far.
Mar 06th 2013
27
                     Its not any less convoluted or loaded than # of assists
Mar 06th 2013
30
                     agree that assists are another can of worms.
Mar 06th 2013
32
                          LOL. Right, and this Melo stat is just as useful.
Mar 06th 2013
40
                     the problem isn't that melo is an infrequent distributor
Mar 06th 2013
31
                          hmm.
Mar 06th 2013
34
                          also: what other players w/ Melo's usage profile can he be compared to?
Mar 06th 2013
39
                               LOL -- you can't have stats that control for everything, Einstein.
Mar 06th 2013
43
                               but is it a function of his scoring ability, his team, or his passing?
Mar 06th 2013
46
                                    LMAO!!!
Mar 06th 2013
49
                               not tough to find.
Mar 06th 2013
47
                                    where do you find that stuff? I dunno where to look for those things.
Mar 06th 2013
50
                                         basketball reference.
Mar 06th 2013
54
                                              thanks -- I'll have to get better at tooling around on there n/m
Mar 06th 2013
56
                                                   they have some sort of player comparison engine.
Mar 06th 2013
58
                          Seriously. NOBODY on the Knicks can consistently create offense
Mar 06th 2013
35
                               his assist rates have been constant for his career.
Mar 06th 2013
48
                                    LOL -- aaand he's led the league in Assist-EFG % for two years.
Mar 06th 2013
52
                                         DANTONI SYSTEM
Mar 06th 2013
53
                                              Exactly. Carmelo led league as a point frwd AND as a power frwd
Mar 06th 2013
59
                                                   LOL
Mar 06th 2013
61
      it makes sense, but it's also lies, damn lies, and statistics
Mar 06th 2013
26
           okay, man.
Mar 06th 2013
29
           analytics are all interesting to me, I just don't swallow them whole
Mar 06th 2013
33
                LOL. The Melo advanced stats *are* team stats.
Mar 06th 2013
37
                but see? the podcast didn't give a historic perspective on that stat
Mar 06th 2013
42
                     Just stop.
Mar 06th 2013
44
                this is why we get mad
Mar 06th 2013
41
                     and your valuation here is exactly why I keep nitpicking:
Mar 06th 2013
45
                     who is doing this?
Mar 06th 2013
51
                     I'm not saying people don't watch, just saying it's part + parcel
Mar 06th 2013
55
                          the major problem is obviously the reverse, though.
Mar 06th 2013
57
                          Agreed. Basketball will never, ever be like baseball in that regard.
Mar 06th 2013
60
                          it's not non-watching nerds, it's non-contextualizing
Mar 06th 2013
64
                          again, where is this happening?
Mar 06th 2013
74
                               for starters I think PER, TS%, eFG% etc. < points per possession
Mar 06th 2013
77
                                    huh?
Mar 06th 2013
79
                                         TS% = points per possession for an individual, i.e. possibly misleading
Mar 06th 2013
80
                                              ugh.
Mar 06th 2013
81
                                                   I'm saying any time TS% is used as an iron-clad metric = lacks context
Mar 06th 2013
82
                                                        LOL
Mar 06th 2013
84
                                                             I don't understand what's missing -- you want links to posts?
Mar 06th 2013
85
                                                                  yes, 11-12 was an outlier
Mar 06th 2013
86
                                                                  so every stat needs context to have any real meaning
Mar 06th 2013
88
                                                                  wtf
Mar 06th 2013
89
                                                                  if you want links to posts, I'm not that bored
Mar 06th 2013
90
                                                                  this is just insane.
Mar 06th 2013
91
                                                                  glad we agree then?
Mar 06th 2013
92
                                                                  so then why did you spend so much time arguing?
Mar 06th 2013
93
                                                                  okay I will (and cherry-pick my own quotes, too):
Mar 06th 2013
94
                                                                  and again, who *ever* disagreed?
Mar 06th 2013
95
                          lulz...
Mar 06th 2013
69
                          FOOTBALL MANAGE MENTION!!!
Mar 06th 2013
72
                     lol. you never would have eyeballed it without that stat being introduce...
Mar 06th 2013
62
                          it also didn't change my OPINION that Melo is a gun
Mar 06th 2013
66
                               when the eyeball says one thing and the stats another
Mar 06th 2013
87
                     I wouldn't say PER sucks.
Mar 06th 2013
71
                          yeah, i agree.
Mar 06th 2013
75
           lol at you trying to checkmate Gunness
Mar 06th 2013
67
Anybody else listen?
Mar 06th 2013
7
I'll be reading the book the former OKC analytics guy
Mar 06th 2013
11
yep gonna be my flight to Thailand read if all goes as planned
Mar 06th 2013
15
I looked up the "game brain" thing, too -- no playable test online :-(
Mar 06th 2013
28
yeah, i was very much looking forward to that.
Mar 06th 2013
38
RE: Anybody else listen?
Mar 06th 2013
63
      c'mon man.
Mar 06th 2013
73
      RE: Anybody else listen?
Mar 06th 2013
76
           i was talking bout oks posters not doing that
Mar 06th 2013
83
Okay dude.
Mar 06th 2013
65
lol okay
Mar 06th 2013
70
idc idc idc
Mar 06th 2013
97
You literally didn't get 4 words into the post.
Mar 06th 2013
96
thanks listening now.
Mar 06th 2013
68

Lobby Okay Sports topic #2141355 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com