I officially retire the #Kang agenda. There's nothing left to prove.

It's been a pleasure.

Poll question: Where does Lebron James rank all-time?

Poll result (77 votes) Top 5 (18 votes) Vote Top 3 (5 votes) Vote Only Jordan better (39 votes) Vote GOAT (10 votes) Vote Not even top 10. My life needs refurbishment. (5 votes) Vote

Can't even hate no more. Dude showed the fuck up!

Maybe Magic.

But prob top 3

six straight Finals, sustained truly elite greatness for a decade+, constant winning with a rotating cast of teammates, never any question about who the best player on his team is, never a period of diluted NBA/ABA talent to dominate, and a capstone achievement in acting as the GM, coach, and star of a team to come back from 3-1 down in a Finals to beat the greatest regular season team in history.

like seriously, removing the whole "20 year career" thing, what does Kareem have? the unguardable sky hook? I'd say Lebron at full speed coming into the lane is the same thing. I've stuck by Kareem at #2, but not after tonight...

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Let's not sell Cap short here.

Bron is the modern-day Oscar Robertson, I don't think we can overlook Oscar. They are neck and neck to me.

Jordan better. Wilt better.

I would give Bron the edge over Shaq, Larry and Magic now, ideas I had been toying with for a while. I'd give it to him over Doc, the logo and narrowly over Moses (still a fucking force) and Hakeem (did not have a long enough or consistent enough prime).

..you can talk about stats, crunch numbers, and even talk overall impact on the game.

• 6 rings
• 6 MVPs
• 19 all star appearances
• 2 scoring titles
• all time leading scorer in nba HISTORY

*and that's not including his 3 straight ncaa championships (or mvps).

lebron has a nice resume, but a bit more work to do before approaching that convo seriously.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

That said, it's a challenging comparison. To me the thing that is amazing about LeBron is that maybe two non-centers in history have had the kind of two-way impact he has. I mean no disrespect to guys like Walt Frazier and Gary Payton--two HOF'ers who are still underrated--but if you look at guys who could control the whole game most of them are centers like Kareem, Wilt, Moses and Hakeem. You have Bron, Jorn and Oscar in terms of non-centers. That is elite fucking company. But yea, cmon ... Cap better.

The NBA all-time leader in points who has six rings? Interesting

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=103936

>six straight Finals,

>never a period of diluted NBA/ABA talent to dominate,

you don't think those 2 things are related?

You think he'd go to 6 straight finals in the West? or even 3? I know who did tho...

like he's literally had 6 seasons >= steph's unanimous mvp season
and another 3-4 = steph's first mvp
that's mind boggling

i think he's prob goat. but a season or two more like this (regardless of title) cements it with a combination of peak performance and longevity

Agendas are cool but Bron's historic dominance speaks for itself.

Six straight NBA finals with three victories.
Two of the best performances in NBA history.
A triple double in game 7 against the best regular season team in NBA history.

^^ All this with a rookie head coach and don't even get me started on the 07 Cavs team that Bron took to the finals.

Though Bron still has some opportunity to close the gap...

but what Bron has accomplished is unparalleled in terms of degree of difficulty. He wasn't drafted to a great team - and had to endure 7 seasons without being surrounded with a championship caliber team. Went to Miami and put together a historic run (4 straight Finals; 2 titles) - and put himself on par with the all-time greats. Then does something that barely anyone expected - returns to Cleveland (a lottery team) - and immediately turns the ship around, and wins the elusive Cleveland championship under *these* kind of circumstances - in the historic, all-time great manner that he played?

Never has been done. Never will be done again.

The only argument that I think is reasonable is Jordan - and he's now closing the gap on that.

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>The only argument that I think is reasonable is Jordan - and
>he's now closing the gap on that.
>
>-->


IT AINT GON NEVER STOP (c)

Jacket has no more room for PATCHES! (c) Bags.


>but what Bron has accomplished is unparalleled in terms of
>degree of difficulty. He wasn't drafted to a great team - and
>had to endure 7 seasons without being surrounded with a
>championship caliber team.

Is that really any different from Jordan's early years?

Went to Miami and put together a
>historic run (4 straight Finals; 2 titles) - and put himself
>on par with the all-time greats. Then does something that
>barely anyone expected - returns to Cleveland (a lottery team)
>- and immediately turns the ship around, and wins the elusive
>Cleveland championship under *these* kind of circumstances -
>in the historic, all-time great manner that he played?

I know, it's kind of like he put together two separate stints to get three titles. A lot like Jordan put together two separate stints to get six.

>Never has been done. Never will be done again.
>
>The only argument that I think is reasonable is Jordan - and
>he's now closing the gap on that.

Wilt told one championship team (that was built around him and was not good before he got there) to go screw so he could go put another one over the top as their stars got old and peaced out.

Let's not go too crazy. Both those guys are still better. Jabbar is still better. That's hallowed ground right there. You gotta pick your fights maybe against Magic and Bird now, which is pretty incredible in and of itself.

All I'm laying out is the reasoning as to why Lebron's current trajectory is on-par with Jordan's (when you compare their respective accomplishments by the age of 31). I actually think what Lebron has done by age 31 is slightly *more* impressive than what Jordan accomplished - but Jordan closed so strong in the final chapters of his career that Bron has a lot of work to do just to stay on-par with that, let alone surpass it.

That said - outside of Jordan (and perhaps Kareem) - I don't see persuasive arguments being made for anybody else usurping Bron as the #2/#3 ATG.


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A lottery team that kept getting the number 1 pick and at least was able to parlay it into two all star caliber teammates for him to team up with.

Misleading at the very best.

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Lebron was the only player they added that dummer!

He's dominated a weak Eastern Conference for years. Thats nothing special.That conference routinely puts teams with losing records into the playoffs.

You have to be a teenager to say Bron being the GOAT is a closed discussion. Top 3 for sure. GOAT no, not even close.

its retarded to even debate now

Since that comprises 99% of your posts lol.

Imo for any rational person who has watched them, Bron has been the better player for a significant time now.

He's Tom PETTY......But he's right though....lol....

My point being, not only has Bron been better the last decade or so, but he will now also unquestionably go down historically as the better talent and players.. big difference.

its like saying Curry was better for 1-2 seasons but no one in they right mind will say he better over a career than Bron

what Bron has been able to accomplish agsinst insurmountable odds with a myriad of rotating players, Kobe could only dream of.

a lotta yall Kobe dickriders still desperately cling onto "5!" as your last resort but even thats sounding retarded now considerin Bron's feat

Your post record speaks for itself in that regard

every time there is a chink in lebron's armor, without fail legacy or some other otherwise reasonable person is there to party off it and re-introduce the bean vs bron debate. and the biggest stans never budged, but i won't even look at them. this deads the argument once and forever, and that's worth noting.

Different.

But the off the court stuff will eventually elevate him above Jordan.

Kobe just took historically the greatest franchise ever to dead fucking last

I know dude means it, and I won't even comment on that.... but godDAMN, the madmaking power in that reply. So efficient per word.

But he's gonna have numbers comparable if not surpassing both when he retires.

Cap's post-70s career are somewhat inflated imo.. plus Magic made him better/more relevant too.

but Bron made Bron better.. his feats are the most impressive by any measure imo

*only* Jordan is unquestionaly better at this point. And that has more to do with him being peerless rather than superhuman feats like Bron..

BUT Bron still has a few chapters to write.

Could run like a deer, played waaaaaaay above the rim. Was basically unstoppable.

I feel that way now




____________

Dallas Cavericks LETS GO!!

like a week ago.

.

Mad & Wrong is my favorite combo.

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I've seen some "not top 5" but I don't recall anyone saying he isn't top 10.

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http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2543718&mesg_id=2543718&listing_type=search#2544043

The blowback to LeBrons overratedness on here is diverse. He's been top 10 for years though.

like i said at the time, he was jockeying around with several of the very best players of all time. i would now top him in the top 5-7 range firmly, and obviously he has had the talent to be no. 1. now i think he has put that within his sights, though to me it will be extremely difficult to get past the top 3 of wilt-jordan-jabbar.

over the years i have learned to understand him through a complex series of studies, translations and moments where i wanted to reach through the screen and choke him like homer simpson.

We graduated the same high school year and I remembered hearing when I was 15-16 how he was going to be the next player up there with Jordan and the hype since then has been another level.

He's had his ups and downs but he's honestly the only athlete I can remember who's had this hype for so long and actually delivered. And tonight was the crown jewel.

few if any that had this much hype. I guess Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning and maybe Sidney Crosby would be similar examples in other sports.

Both of those guys are younger, and compete in a league with a lot more parity and random in-game events.

Lets not go overboard.

3 finals mvps and 4 mvps is a two man list.

I guess that's a feeling only Mike and Lebron know

8-2 (4-0 in Game 7s)
35 points per game
12 rebounds per game
7 assists per game

https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/744751373284147200

points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals.

not calling him the goat.
but nobody else in nba history is capable of doing that.

I guess the thing that elevates a guy among the greats to me is their total ability to dominate a game and that's why for me LeBron has moved ahead of, gulp, Magic and Larry. Those guys were incredible and what they could do in terms of running a team (Magic) and powering an offense (Larry) was nearly impossible to duplicate. But they didn't do the things LeBron does on the defensive end.

To me he is in a class of two-way players that is very exclusive and small. Jabbar, Wilt, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, Jordan and LeBron are the only members of the club. No disrespect to the aforementioned guys or Russell and Jerry West might deserve consideration for the list also. But just in terms of total impact on a game and being able to control it, you have only the most dominant big men and the two most complete perimeter players ever that are there with LeBron. Hopefully he gets in that cryo tank and gives himself a few more seasons at this level. With this accomplishment I think he has put himself back in the GOAT hunt if he can stay at this level for 4-5 years, which would be fucking crazy. Basically he would have put in Bean's entire career with the suck parts book ending it. Please believe that that argument is deader than James Naismith.

an over reactive prisoner of the moment and needs to calm the fuck down....

is no. 3 all time and could EASILY be no. 2......

He took the Cot Damn Cavs to the championship and actually won it.....

For ME....

Jordan
Kareem
Bron
Magic
Duncan

He could def. be no. 2 at this point...That's how great he was in the playoffs....Head and shoulders better than anyone on the court....And if he wins another one he will be running with Jordan.....Gotta keep it real...

And yeah, James is the greatest SF of all time.....No contest.....

niggas gon forget about that nigga so fast...

AI retired five years ago and you still got stans of various and sundry players taking shots at him.

Neither of those dudes will be forgotten, I don't understand people trying to convince themselves otherwise.

but one of the most fueled debates over the past decade was who would turn out to be the greater star: kobe or bron.

That debate is now over - and in retrospect - it wasn't all that close.

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Just funny and kinda silly when cats over-exaggerate with that kind of stuff (which is mostly just them projecting lol)

And sadder still is that future generations may look at things like ring count and finals record and consider Kobe better. The good fight is eternal, my man

but no doubt while bean was signing shoes for people and licking his lips in three languages to the media, his stans were celebrating every little failure for bron and trying to re-hash the debate. it was dead. it just got deader.

Some people still salty about the shot, I see.

actually, I got both Bron and Magic above jordan

Magic and Jordan is fairly close like on four nights Jordan would be better on four type shit. But he was definitely better. Fuck positional versatility (BTW Jordan could play three positions), look at well-roundedness. He could become a facilitator when needed. He could rebound when called upon. Magic was obviously much better at those things but he wasn't the scorer Jordan was, even when asked to score, and he was nowhere near the defender.

LeBron is now making a very interesting argument. He is, around the same age that Jordan did, become the guy you just don't want to fuck with in a Game 7 or the fourth quarter thereof. For years Jordan lorded that over him, and of course the low point was the 2011 Finals. But LeBron is now becoming the Justin Williams of basketball while also being the best player in the game on a minute-to-minute basis. I still don't think he is as masterful offensively as Jordan and certainly not as pretty, but there is an element of force to his game that wasn't in Jordan's as well. Defensively he picks his spots a bit but he also doesn't have a Pippen type defender on his squad. I think the versatility argument comes into play on defense, he can guard more positions and he can roam more, obviously he is more a shot-blocker, too. Man defense and playing the lanes I would give to Jordan though. It's becoming closer and closer, we'll see how long LeBron can continue to evolve before he declines.

in terms of achievements...we all know he has to get 3 more..and its very possible

in terms of sheer basketball ability? ONLY KAREEM BETTER.

in comparision to Jordan. Really dont get this one....Jordan's rebound and assist totals werent far from Lebron's, and he defended at an elite level too. They both did/ do it all. Lebron's got a little edge there, Jordan had the scoring edge.

Jordan having the better, more reliable J has always been the deal breaker to me.

One thing I will give LeBron though is even though he has been pretty bad from the perimeter, he made a big jumper to start the second half of Game 7 and he got Smith going, too. They were some thing like 2-20 or 2-22 outside the paint in the first half. He immediately set the tone to turn that around.

That said, Jordan hitting like eight jumpers isn't a row wouldn't have been unusual. Much better shooter. I also think he could have shot the ball well from distance, it just wasn't a staple of his game. Same thing with handling the ball. Jordan was excellent at it, he just didn't play in this dribble to death era. There were lots of isos, sure, but Jordan was a much more economical ball-handler than guys today (Bron, Kyrie, Russy, et al).

or compare guys whose entire careers i watched to guys who i didn't watch at all

(imo it's kind of dumb tbh)

but of the guys that i've personally watched, he's in the top 3 with jordan and magic.

And no real threat of him being eclipsed by anyone at this point.

which is fucking NUTS for a guy who is not a 7 footer. physical force like few others. oscar, karl malone, maybe sir charles ... the list is pretty fucking short.

And I'm not splitting hairs and ranking them because theyre basically on the same level.

Cant rank guys from before my time either. Also hard to compare players like Lebron to Centers from eras of many years ago.

In the sense that it's tough to compare across positions, sure, but thanks to Kareem you have a sort of man-who-beat-the-man thing from Russell up to Shaq. It's also not hard to tell that Jabbar and Wilt are both gods who walked among men on the hardwood.

I agree with you as far as LeBron being at the Magic/Bird stage though, which is incredible.

Jordan
Kareem
Bron
Magic
Duncan


And it could be argued that James may be no. 2 after taking the Cavs to the Promised Land....

Nah....That's how epic dude was in these playoffs...Before this season James was in my top 10, but he wasn't in my top 5....Now he's top 3.....

I can't believe u r going to make a Chicago Bulls fan take up for a fucking Cav, but here it goes.....

James didn't have a Hall of Fame frontline in this series like Bird....No McHale, no Parrish...And Bird never lead players ON BOTH TEAMS in every statistical category like James...Also, while Bird was an average team defender, he's not seeing James on that side of the ball...Bird is def. one of the greats, but James is on an entirely different level...

Also, Kobe is not in the discussion (let me guess...U ring counting, right?) ...GREAT player....But he rarely made others around him better...If anything, u should have more of a beef with Magic being bumped down than Kobe not being mentioned at all....

And Shaq is one of the most dominant big men of all time but I still pick Kareem, Dream, and Timmy over him.....

Like I said, James gets vaulted to that 3 spot after his latest display....Take it from someone that watched that fucker dismantle MY entire team by himself when Kyrie and Love were injured. I'm through with doubting LeBron James' greatness....

Kobe...lol

>I can't believe u r going to make a Chicago Bulls fan take up
>for a fucking Cav, but here it goes.....
>
>James didn't have a Hall of Fame frontline in this series like
>Bird....No McHale, no Parrish...And Bird never lead players ON
>BOTH TEAMS in every statistical category like James...Also,
>while Bird was an average team defender, he's not seeing James
>on that side of the ball...Bird is def. one of the greats, but
>James is on an entirely different level...
>
>Also, Kobe is not in the discussion (let me guess...U ring
>counting, right?) ...GREAT player....But he rarely made others
>around him better...If anything, u should have more of a beef
>with Magic being bumped down than Kobe not being mentioned at
>all....
>
>And Shaq is one of the most dominant big men of all time but I
>still pick Kareem, Dream, and Timmy over him.....
>
>Like I said, James gets vaulted to that 3 spot after his
>latest display....Take it from someone that watched that
>fucker dismantle MY entire team by himself when Kyrie and Love
>were injured. I'm through with doubting LeBron James'
>greatness....
>
>Kobe...lol

This^^^^^^^

At their peaks they might have a case for No. 1 but both guys had some ups and downs in their careers, even before they started to decline physically.

I can't believe how few people are mentioning Chamberlain here. That's some shameful shit. You start the list with number 1.

U think so? All I know Dream took a team with no other all-stars to the championship and was the best player on the floor...Shaq is the truth though....Dude is def. in my top 10....

yes, i think they are hard to evaluate. neither guy had bill russell or kareem's career but on any given day they could beat anyone. do you rank them on their ability or their career? they are both formidable, but that level that's true of everyone.

they're the most subjective given how different their games were, how gaudy their accomplishments are, and how much the NBA has changed since their day. That being said, there wasn't much more they could accomplish (outside of rings for Wilt) and when I see lists where guys with 1 or 2 rings are over them I have to shake my head. Anywho, here's the top 5 I've been thinking of the past couple days.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Bill
4. Wilt
5. Bron

Probably Magic then Bird sitting right outside. I can't put Wilt over Bill given the rings comparison and I'm keeping Bron behind those guys for now so as not to be reactionary.

Wilt>Russell easily. Hard to place either outside the top five. Wilt was a player for any era. There is no mystery to it. He would not have scored 100 points or averaged 50. Those numbers have been adjusted for various eras and remain heads above the rest. He led the league in points, rebounds and assists. Blocks were not kept then. That is just unthinkable. He adjusted his game in capricious and extreme ways, yet both times they led to championships. As a physical specimen, he is with few or no parallels in the entire history of the NBA. You look at his facing Kareem at the end of his career and Kareem plays forever and plays against Hakeem, Ewing and other guys who went up against Shaq. That pretty well takes you through the modern day. If I were starting a team with any player history, it would be Chamberlain without a second thought.

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There was no tighter rivalry and no more perfect balance of parallels and contrasts. Any list that doesn't have them back to back is suspect to me.

On Bird and Magic? Not really.....

I think Magic's legend has only grown...I think a lot of that has to do with his position (PG) and that game when Magic went HAM playing center....

I've always had him over Bird.....But Bird is in my top 5-6 (I got Timmy over him)......And I think Wilt gets unfairly left out because his GOAT moments were compiled when he was literally the biggest force in basketball. You see those pics of Wilt towering over entire teams....It discounts the fact that dude could move/play like a guard.....Wilt's assists totals are nuts....

>
>On Bird and Magic? Not really.....
>
>I think Magic's legend has only grown...I think a lot of that
>has to do with his position (PG) and that game when Magic went
>HAM playing center....

You look at the primes of their careers, they are neck and neck. "Legend" is crap. "Legend" would have you believe Derek Jeter was better than Frank Robinson and other nonsense. Bird and Magic were two perfect sides of a coin. Personally just off career vs career and head to head, I would have Magic in one spot and Bird right behind him. They are neck and neck.

>I've always had him over Bird.....But Bird is in my top 5-6 (I
>got Timmy over him)......And I think Wilt gets unfairly left
>out because his GOAT moments were compiled when he was
>literally the biggest force in basketball. You see those pics
>of Wilt towering over entire teams....It discounts the fact
>that dude could move/play like a guard.....Wilt's assists
>totals are nuts....

Wilt played better competition at the center position than Shaq did in his prime. He played better centers than there are in the league today. Yes, early in his career it was borderline unfair but guys like Nate Thurmond and later Kareem would change that (along with rule changes). Chamberlain not only dominated the game, he often dominated the way he wanted to. The Celtics as a team, for most of their dynasty, were unbeatable.

Another guy would be Top 10 for sure if not for injury was Bill Walton.

>>
>>On Bird and Magic? Not really.....
>>
>>I think Magic's legend has only grown...I think a lot of
>that
>>has to do with his position (PG) and that game when Magic
>went
>>HAM playing center....
>
>You look at the primes of their careers, they are neck and
>neck. "Legend" is crap. "Legend" would have you believe Derek
>Jeter was better than Frank Robinson and other nonsense. Bird
>and Magic were two perfect sides of a coin. Personally just
>off career vs career and head to head, I would have Magic in
>one spot and Bird right behind him. They are neck and neck.



Magic better....Always been....


>Wilt played better competition at the center position than
>Shaq did in his prime. He played better centers than there are
>in the league today. Yes, early in his career it was
>borderline unfair but guys like Nate Thurmond and later Kareem
>would change that (along with rule changes). Chamberlain not
>only dominated the game, he often dominated the way he wanted
>to. The Celtics as a team, for most of their dynasty, were
>unbeatable.

I really don't consider the NBA much of a modern league until the '70s hit.....For the most part, I saw a lot of "6'8-6'9" centers in the league for much of the '60s when Wilt was absolutely KILLING it...I'm much more impressed with the film of Wilt when he teamed up with Jerry West and became a much more focused player by the early 70s....I mean we are talking about someone who put it on a very Kareem in that 71-72 season.....

But again, I'm telling u why Wilt has steadily gone down on the list of Greatest of all time....It's hard for folks to give it up to a all-time giant who mostly played during an era when he towered over his peers....That's a shame.....Wilt deserves a lot more....

I get why he isn't being named more but you don't have to be a part of it, Murph!

I don't doubt that Wilt is probably top 5 ever but just based on what my eyes have seen I left him off.

They are the same black/gold/transparent Zoom Soldier 10 but since they were Nike ID I went with a Nate Dogg theme, remembering a fallen soldier. The tongue straps say "SMOKE" and "WEED," while the spat straps say "ERY" and "DAY." I was pretty fucking surprised Nike let it go through. There were a number of questionable ones you could do but I couldn't pass that one up.

Those sound dope.

Link up a pic

http://store.nike.com/us/en_us/product/zoom-lebron-soldier-ten-id/?piid=42621&pbid=275757679&mid=806164690#?mid=806164690

>They are the same black/gold/transparent Zoom Soldier 10 but
>since they were Nike ID I went with a Nate Dogg theme,
>remembering a fallen soldier. The tongue straps say "SMOKE"
>and "WEED," while the spat straps say "ERY" and "DAY." I was
>pretty fucking surprised Nike let it go through. There were a
>number of questionable ones you could do but I couldn't pass
>that one up.

those sound cold as hell. Had no idea the straps were etched with that.

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i have never bought the soldier series before but these seemed pretty smooth, couldn't pass on the historical colorway and the chance to write funny shit on it.

I've seen this argument thrown around on here before and now that Bron cemented his Hall of Fame candidacy I deem it necessary to talk about it.

Let's get some quick facts about the way about chips:
Russell has 11 chips
John Havlichek has 8 chips
Jorn has 6 chips
Bron has 3 chips with six consecutive NBA finals appearances so FOH holding 6 against Bron.

On paper Jordan supporters cite 6-0 and shrug but it's not that simple upon further examination.

Jordan beat these six teams:
1991 Lakers (58-24)
1992 Trail Blazers (57-25)
1993 Suns (62-20)
1996 SuperSonics (64-18)
1997 Jazz (64-18)
1998 Jazz (62-20)

These teams won 74.6% of their games whereas the teams Bron faced won 75.5% of their games. None of the teams Jordan beat won a title with the same in-tact core that lost to the Bulls. Jordan never faced any team as good as the Golden State Warriors in the NBA finals. Matter of fact, he ducked those Rockets teams.

Bron had it way tougher as the Thunder, Spurs, Mavs, and Warriors won chips. Another thing that reinforces my position is Bron's finals opponents were on a 62-win pace in an 82 game season.

No NBA player in history with five finals appearances and at least one all-star selection has faced tougher competition in the NBA finals.. NOBODY. Bron set an NBA finals record in 2015 by leading in points, rebounds, and assists. He returned in 2016 and broke his old record by leading the NBA finals in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. Bottom line is objectively speaking Bron is better as that is something not even Cheese Eyes could do.

Bron made the finals in 07 less than five years in the league. It took Jordan much longer to do it.

Dallas and Phoenix were sort of similar (Dallas never won a title outside of beating Bron BTW). Jordan beat Phoenix, Bron lost to dallas.

Portland and OKC are also quite similar (Portland actually more successful) and again OKC never won a title at all (not sure why you said that). Both guys won those matchups.


The Spurs made the finals two years in a row in that incarnation. So did Utah. Bron split, Jordan swept. Same thing with the Dubs but I admit they were better than Seattle.

The Lakers won plenty outside of 91, obviously, you still had Magic, Worthy, Scott, Green and other core guys from the Showtime era. You could use that in place of the Spurs if you want. Jordan also had to get past the Pistons in his own conference. Right today LeBron hasn't even had an opponent as good as the Knicks or Heat of that era, let alone the Pistons.

I will give you that the Warriors are better than the Sonics were, sure.

Utah was a great team - but the Spurs are a dynasty. The Spurs team that Bron's Heat defeated (and subsequently lost to in the following year) were an all-time great team at the peak of their second reign.

Bron's titles all came the hard way. OKC. Spurs. GSW. All at the respective peak of their powers.

No easy touches.

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Blazers arguably so. Only the Lakers were clearly not at their peak.

Talking about the Spurs as winning a bunch of titles is iffy, I look at the two years they played the Heat and the two years Utah played the Bulls. Pretty similar. Those Utah teams were good and some fools even picked them to win.

>Bron's titles all came the hard way. OKC. Spurs. GSW. All at
>the respective peak of their powers.

If anything, the past 4 years has shown the peak powers of those OKC three. Wasn't Harden still a 6 man who logged major minutes? they were just stretching their legs that first finals year. Put those three back on OKC NOW and I don't see them losing to anyone at this point.

A real raw baller won't fold or forfeit (c) Black Thought

After you're done hollaing at 11 take a look at 8 on your way out the door and CRY CHEESE FILLED TEARS.

Jordan doesn't have 11 rings so fuck six.
Jordan doesn't have 8 rings so fuck six.

Bron's degree of difficulty and the fact that he won a title in Cleveland down 3-1 to the best regular season in NBA history trump Jordan's six rings. Your guy couldn't make it to the finals inside of his first five years in the league meanwhile Bron the equivalent of the 84 Bulls to the finals.... ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE CRY.

>On paper Jordan supporters cite 6-0 and shrug but it's not
>that simple upon further examination.
>
>Jordan beat these six teams:
>1991 Lakers (58-24)
>1992 Trail Blazers (57-25)
>1993 Suns (62-20)
>1996 SuperSonics (64-18)
>1997 Jazz (64-18)
>1998 Jazz (62-20)

so you're just gonna dismiss how fucking great that Blazers, Suns, Sonics, and Jazz teams are?!?! on a goddamn 1.1% better regular season win %?!?!?!
prime Barkley with Kevin Johnson and Thunder Dan were an EXCELLENT squad. Barkley knows deep down his team would shit on this Warriors, and im not inclined to disagree with him at this juncture.
prime The Glove and The Reign Man?!! With Detlef Schrempf (sp)... to even pretend those squads weren't absolutely lethal is a disgrace. Jordan rather easily dismantled, and destroyed them.
The Jazz were his easiest foes IMO, and the Jazz went to two straight finals easily, as you stated above, 64 and 62 win seasons back to back, they were LEGENDARY... prime Mailman and Stockton, with great role players, and Jordan nonchalanty takes a bigger shit in Utah than any Mormon has, ever.

>
so basically what you said is bullshit about "Jordan never faced a team better than this", which is just pure assholery, but no one here denies the greatness Bron did, leading every stat category. Bron leading every stat category will never get done again, and he is the second greatest NBA of all time behind Jordan.

to shit on Jordan to raise up Bron is naive and ludacris. respect both. Jordan, RIGHT TODAY, is better. the great thing is Bron is still only 31 and can rightfully earn the GOAT. its tbd.

Dubs bench, better. Dubs backcourt, better. Dubs centers, better. Barkley was better than Draygoon and Barkley was on a mission that year. But let's not make those Suns as some sort of historic roster.

But overall I agree, level of competition is not all that disparate. Pretty similar, I'd give Bron a slight edge, but not enough of one to explain 3-4 versus 6-0

Is that the Dubs effing collapsed.

Kerr, Curry, Thomson, Barnes...all deserve to get F R I E D.

Now, huge, huge props to the Cavs for exploiting their weaknesses.


BUT

To act like Cleveland just defeated some super team is just not true.

No one on that roster can get their own shot. The 3 stops falling, Curry has to work on D...end game.

They were lucky to make it past OKC.

>To act like Cleveland just defeated some super team is just
>not true.
>
>No one on that roster can get their own shot. The 3 stops
>falling, Curry has to work on D...end game.
>
>They were lucky to make it past OKC.
>
>


-->

Cause we're getting to the 70th year of the NBA coming into the next season and there are some players people will never ever move from their spot.

It's like trying to discredit Chuck Berry or the Beatles or Rakim... they were the first to do what they did at that level... but theoretically if some player came into the NBA next year, averaged 40-10-10 and won the next 10 championships, you'd have to say they're the greatest right?

I never watched Wilt or Russell in their prime but I'm pretty sure Lebron would beat Prime Russell in a game of 1 on 1... but does that make him greater?

Anyway I'm not fighting some 16 year old kid that thinks that Lebron is the GOAT and I'm not fighting an 80 year old that thinks Russell is the GOAT cause they both probably belong in the GOAT tier.

>Cause we're getting to the 70th year of the NBA coming into
>the next season and there are some players people will never
>ever move from their spot.
>
>It's like trying to discredit Chuck Berry or the Beatles or
>Rakim... they were the first to do what they did at that
>level... but theoretically if some player came into the NBA
>next year, averaged 40-10-10 and won the next 10
>championships, you'd have to say they're the greatest right?
>
>I never watched Wilt or Russell in their prime but I'm pretty
>sure Lebron would beat Prime Russell in a game of 1 on 1...
>but does that make him greater?
>
>Anyway I'm not fighting some 16 year old kid that thinks that
>Lebron is the GOAT and I'm not fighting an 80 year old that
>thinks Russell is the GOAT cause they both probably belong in
>the GOAT tier.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Ever.

I don't know if that makes him the greatest, but it does
make him the best centerpiece of all time.

He can legitimately be a top 3 player in ANY era. ANY set of
rules. Pre or post 3 point line. FIBA ball. He's top 3.

You can win 60 games with Lebron starting at point guard.

You an win 60 games with Lebron scoring 30ppg.

You can win 60 games with him as a starting power forward.

He can be a defensive stopper.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>
>
>You an win 60 games with Lebron scoring 30ppg.
>
just for the hell of it i checked his 30 ppg seasons (2) and cleveland won 50 games one of those seasons, 45 the other. his FG percentage was also two of his lower ones throughout his career. one could argue he became a much more efficient scorer as his career progressed, but perhaps he also realized HIS GAME wasn't at its best if he was going for 30 a night.

this shit mad old i just thought it was interesting that it wasn't actually the case, even though it seems almost certain to have happened.

I see the board is going full f*cktard in over-reacting to this.

Nerds who probably haven't thought about anything else since Sunday other than "where does Lebron rank now" and "I wonder what Kyrie had for breakfast" straight flooding the board with stupid, imaginary sh!t.

Lebron is an all-time great player who just put on amazing f*cking performance and won a title for Cleveland (!).

There's plenty for Bron heads to party on...but once you start going full ESPN "what does this mean for his legacy" over-emotional f*ckery and dissecting every little stat and comparison the sh!t becomes unbearable.

Context suddenly means nothing.

Then when some engage and try to temper the collective Brongasm ya'll are having, its just "hate" or "weep"

LULZ

And some of ya'll or so caught up in the emotion of it all, you have missed certain dudes slithering onto the pro-Bron agenda suddently...when it wasn't that long ago Melo was an equal to this dude to some.

Cmon.

All time great player. On Mount Rushmore? SUre, but you just have to add another face rather than take one off.

I mean, half these kids probably didn't even see Magic play one game. Let alone Wilt. Grown a$$ men in here trying to rank other grown a$$ men based on 40-50 year old stats and sh!t.

Its corny.

Not to mention the way some of ya'll try to build up the Spurs into some super dynasty (and now the Dubs...lulz) to exaggerate sh!t is simply unnecessary.

Lebron deserves better fans. Straight up. Every good thing he does, ya'll try to compare it to the greats, specifically MJ, and suddenly its like talking to a Bieber fan.

And then no one can f*cking enjoy it.

In other words, take a breath and enjoy the f*cking awesome moment. Keep a level head, maintain some level of maturity and context.

.

-->

Definitely the best player to ever go .500 in the Finals while playing with 2 other USMNT members

Time to be a responsible adult.

-->

Ill never stop hating until he makes it impossible and he aint there. He could win the next 10 titles in a row, and I could find something.

Do you even know why I hate? Bc in all honesty its an immutable factor.

neat couple.


-->

You're a fucking disgrace

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=21&topic_id=103936

Great work as usual guys.

so, so glad lol.

Based on individual talent, he's an all time great and probably deserves to be on the basketball Mouth Rushmore. I say probably because I never saw players before the 90's, so I can't say with conviction if LeBron is better or worse than Wilt/Kareem/other way before my time. However, he doesn't have the hardware YET to match up with the all time greats that are always brought up.

Since his career is not set in stone yet, its hard to crucify him for not matching or passing other all times great at this point in time.

maybe with players i've witnessed play as a late teen into adulthood but dudes i've never seen? nah.

Besides there are so many variables involved its an exercise in futility imo...especially considering someone who has around 3-4 years playing at a really high level

-->

https://www.facebook.com/basketballnetwork.net/videos/548391138658533/

-->

Like, it's almost the least voted option in your own poll.

This is weird.

like 95% of people voted top 5
the majority voted top 2

who's supposed to take an L here?

completely over rated.....nah, j/k. top 3-4, maybe just behind Jordan

Topic of conversation today would be...?

I will never understand this pass he is given

you tryna tell me if he went to the clippers he'd have won multiple rings and then switched again to win more? he was fortunate the lakers recovered from a disaster of a deal, and equally fortunate that they didn't listen to him when he cried about trading bynum (among other things).

that was only the 3rd of chaunceys 6 straight all star seasons, rip and tayshaun were still in their 20s, and sheeds contract was up in 2009. 20yo Amir Johnson, and Stuckey for Kobe to make or break

that team could have made 5 straight finals from 2008-2012 and would have won 2 at minimum, more if they added a marquee big man post-sheed.

apparently it was close.

EDIT: they were trading rip and tayshaun to la. I still think there were 2 titles there with chauncey, kobe, mcdyess, sheed tho.

>I still think there were 2 titles there with chauncey, kobe, mcdyess, sheed tho.

but i dont think there would have been any lack of dudes wanting to play with Chauncey and Kobe.

plus with Arnie Kander around, maybe neither of those guys have their achilles blow up.

but that core would have been better than the celtics' core imo

with rip and tayshaun (the youngest members of their core) going out in that scenario, that theoretical team would've needed some serious luck with young guys, like popovich-buford type hits on late 1sts and 2nds, to put together a real run.

i think the big 3 celts would've been a better team. dwight's magic and bron's cavs. later, thibs's bulls and bron's heat. that kobe pistons team would be in the mix, sure, but not even favored in a series against any of those teams imo.

Pistons were DONE once Big Ben left town.

sounds like mental masturbation to me but i agree the pistons would have been nasty with him

Imagine if Kobe took a 10 mill per year deal to sign with the Spurs in his prime. They'd call it the Kobe era. Timmay is humble and Kobe is as well when it comes to accepting less shots as long as the player that takes those shots makes them.

BUT...

Bron took everyone's criticisms to heart and said since it's about rings then I'm going to give myself the best chance to win them and that's what he did.

>Imagine if Kobe took a 10 mill per year deal to sign with the
>Spurs in his prime. They'd call it the Kobe era. Timmay is
>humble and Kobe is as well when it comes to accepting less
>shots as long as the player that takes those shots makes
>them.
>
>BUT...
>
>Bron took everyone's criticisms to heart and said since it's
>about rings then I'm going to give myself the best chance to
>win them and that's what he did.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Love or loath he is the GOAT period ain't been no one else like him and 14 years deep and still looking madder and more driven. he is a standard and on his own island.

look at the teams he beat to WIn chips especially the last 2? also almost a whole decade straight in the finals who else is seeing that?

Bron is like Tom Brady ain't nobody else riding that elevator.

my top ten is

Bron

Magic

Shaq

Kareem

Jordan

Duncan

Bird

Wilt

Russell

the Big O

as the best players ever. he's still gaining ground on them though

to the Finals, as a number 1 seed in June is crazy.

Yeah I know they added Kevin Love, another year under the belt for Kyrie.
Added Jr and Shump.


But that's a crazy feat.

>to the Finals, as a number 1 seed in June is crazy.
>
>Yeah I know they added Kevin Love, another year under the belt
>for Kyrie.
>Added Jr and Shump.
>

Add Kawhi to the Wolves then swap Wiggins for Jokic & LaVine for 5 rotation players including a starter then lets see if they can beat the Duds w/ an injured Curry, Matt Barnes starting in place of KD & Draymond missing one game.

You can do it. We're here for you.

-->

Did you?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

when he wrote his book "Confessions of a Schizophrenic: by Exidor as Told to Exidor"

and had nothing left to prove.

He's #2 and/or #1(a) and there's not even a close third.

I'm just here to see how cats are doing with that "#BronCurve" narrative.

There's still time.

-->

>He's #2 and/or #1(a) and there's not even a close third.

that you've seen, perhaps. not all-time.

Asking for a friend.

-->

Well if Mike didn’t retire after winning his 6th title you could say him.

Russell in year 13 went out a champion.

Wilt in year 15 went out playing for a championship and led the league in rebounding.

Trust me LBJ is doing something very special right now, and I doubt that we will witness something like this again for quite some time.

As far as his place in history I can’t put him (or any player) above Russell or Wilt. I have Kareem behind them, but I think LBJ can overtake him if he can play at this level at least another 5 years.

Russell will always be the GOAT on a championship level. No player (including MJ) can say that they were a better champion than Russell.

Wilt will always be the best individual talent the game has ever seen. Not only did he win a couple of chips, but he owns more individual records than any other player. He is also 2nd and 3rd in a lot of statistical categories as well.

I've always stuck to players that I actually saw play

I can concede the players you named are all-time greats

Wilt, Cap, Russell

...but...

the question was...playing their best basketball in season 15

Did you watch those players career in order to speak to the comparison?

>I've always stuck to players that I actually saw play
>
>I can concede the players you named are all-time greats
>
>Wilt, Cap, Russell
>
>...but...
>
>the question was...playing their best basketball in season 15
>
>Did you watch those players career in order to speak to the
>comparison?

If you are going to say that any player that we see in sports is the best of all time, then you need to do your research.

As I stated Russell went out a champion in his 13th and final NBA season. If he plays until year 15 then I truly believe that he is still playing at an elite level winning championships. Wilt was playing in the Finals years 15.

The most interesting thing about Wilt and Russell is they walked away when they wanted to not having to chase anything or anyone. Bron is still playing trying to surpass MJ and is not able to walk away just yet.

So yes there are players still playing their best basketball either approaching their 15th season or in it. Also we are only a quarter of the way into the season, so let’s see how this will play out. Secondly no one cares what Bron does during the regular season anymore. They only are looking at what he does in the playoffs/finals.

"If you are going to say that any player that we see in sports is the best of all time, then you need to do your research."

I think you would agree, there is a difference in research and actually being present for the events...yes?

"As I stated Russell went out a champion in his 13th and final NBA season. If he plays until year 15 then I truly believe that he is still playing at an elite level winning championships. Wilt was playing in the Finals years 15."

Are you saying those were Wilt's and Russell's best years? Because that is the question. Bron is in his 15th season. Has rings...but given his current production, this is shaping up to be his best season. That's the question. Was Russell's 13th chip his best season? Was Wilt's 15th year finals his best season? I think most people would agree...no, they weren't their best seasons. That's the question.

"The most interesting thing about Wilt and Russell is they walked away when they wanted to not having to chase anything or anyone. Bron is still playing trying to surpass MJ and is not able to walk away just yet."

I disagree, but that's a separate discussion. I don't think Bron is chasing anything at this point. I think he just wants to keep improving season to season and his legacy will write itself based on that...not a head to head comparison to MJ, IMO.

"So yes there are players still playing their best basketball either approaching their 15th season or in it. Also we are only a quarter of the way into the season, so let’s see how this will play out. Secondly no one cares what Bron does during the regular season anymore. They only are looking at what he does in the playoffs/finals."

Which is why I asked if you saw those players actually play. If you had some insight into why their 15th season was the best of their career, I'd love to hear it. Stating they went to the finals, or won a chip doesn't really prove that it was their best season as a bball player. I mean, how many vets do we see ring chase, and nobody would say that that was their best season...right?

It is only a quarter of the way through the season. Let have this same discussion in April. Because as of now while he is playing phenomenal basketball, I am not ready to say that he is playing the best ball of his career.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Wilt was still the best player on the planet when he retired, despite the presence of Kareem, who was also still a huge force in year 15.

We didn't see Magic and Larry make it that far. I wouldn't say this unprecedented but it's awesome to see anyway.

>Wilt was still the best player on the planet when he retired,
>despite the presence of Kareem, who was also still a huge
>force in year 15.
>
>We didn't see Magic and Larry make it that far. I wouldn't say
>this unprecedented but it's awesome to see anyway.


I just tried to make that same argument. MJ still would’ve played as the same peak that he was playing at if he didn’t retire. Same thing with Wilt... I don’t know why people in sports continue to disrespect the man. NO ONE could touch him then or now as an individual talent.

Interesting story told by Larry Brown.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PN0Q3KcKA_E

MJ still would’ve
>played as the same peak that he was playing at if he didn’t
>retire. Same thing with Wilt...



-->

Given the fact how he was playing when he retired after winning his 6th championship.

if you go by age, jordan in his age 34 season was the scoring champ, league mvp, still the consensus best player, and won a title.

so not *exactly* unprecedented, unless you're juking the stats.

and it's not simply about age - it's also bout mileage on the body via minutes played and continuous deep playoff/finals runs.

Jordan taking 2+ years off from the game may have actually helped him to recover and rejuvenate for his final, epic chapter of titles 4, 5 & 6.

-->

jordan, in the season when he turned THIRTY FIVE, won a scoring title, mvp and championship.

#facts

and Jordan's final burst was legendary. To come back after taking 2+ years off and then 3-peat again is why he's the consensus #1 (and still my #1 GOAT).

But at 33 (in less than a month) and with similar basketball mileage absorbed on the body as to when Jordan was 35 - Bron is having a mind-blowing year and playing his best basketball ever - so he's definitely in that rarified air (pun intended) of seemingly superhuman longevity of ridiculously expansive peak performance. Many never thought they'd see it again...but they're seeing it right now.

-->

>Wilt was still the best player on the planet when he retired,
>despite the presence of Kareem, who was also still a huge
>force in year 15.

Everybody was screaming for Bron to get on the block and post up

Defenders played off of him and let him take 3s

Deferred too much in the big moments

...wasn't that fun...

Easily the most complete basketball player I've ever seen

MJ still the goat though

I've got Bron #2.

>Easily the most complete basketball player I've ever seen
>
>MJ still the goat though
>
>I've got Bron #2.

I say he's the #1 best teammate of all time: there's no
one I pick ahead of him when starting a team, but Jordan
is still the best individual.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

stacked with "Millennials," or folks who were born 1990 and later.

as opposed to an "omission bias" based on recency?

to dominate, and ends up having legit comparable accolades and final statistics equal to or better than Jordan.

I feel like even if Lebron somehow ended up with six NBA Finals MVPs, and 6-7 rings, there are still folks who would argue that MJ was better for whatever reasons. But the folks who grew up on Lebron and not Jordan would surely be giving Lebron more credit than the older heads who grew up on MJ.

>stacked with "Millennials," or folks who were born 1990 and
>later.

usually that's based on them being laker fans and/or bron haters

no one cares who the most athletic player to win 3 rings is

Bron could win two more and people would still exercise a simple ring-count test to determine his place. So he'll likely stay at the #2 spot regardless of whether he wins 1 more ring, 2 more - or no more.

But all-time greatness isn't just a ring-count exercise - otherwise you would never have Wilt as highly ranked as you have him, right?

So, the GOAT contest isn't just about accomplishments and titles - it's about who is the greatest basketball player of all time - and there are a myriad of metrics to measure that. If it was simply about championship accomplishments - then Bill Russell would be the GOAT - but he's not.

-->

He will have to equal or surpass Jordan to shut *all* his detractors up but two more would go a long way. Right now I think he is just behind Jordan as the greatest non-center ever, so top five-ish. Not much further to climb and it will be tough to close the gap that's there, but he could do it.

Wilt is an exceptional case in an exceptional era. Pretty impossible to go by ring count in an era where one team wins 11 times in 13 years and eight in a row. So guys like Wilt, Oscar, Elgin and Jerry are less vulnerable to the ring-count thing, plus Wilt (and to an extent Oscar's) statistical dominance was on another level, even compared with LeBron.

the analogy would be more appropriate if there was just this 1 dominant team that was winning everything in sight, and lebron (and every other great of the era) just didn't have the dogs to compete.

basically, if the steph/KD warriors had existed for the last decade and a half.

but that hasn't been the case. 5 or 6 different teams have stopped lebron from padding his ring totals. so it's not a wilt/west/oscar type deal.



>He will have to equal or surpass Jordan to shut *all* his
>detractors up but two more would go a long way. Right now I
>think he is just behind Jordan as the greatest non-center
>ever, so top five-ish. Not much further to climb and it will
>be tough to close the gap that's there, but he could do it.
>
>Wilt is an exceptional case in an exceptional era. Pretty
>impossible to go by ring count in an era where one team wins
>11 times in 13 years and eight in a row. So guys like Wilt,
>Oscar, Elgin and Jerry are less vulnerable to the ring-count
>thing, plus Wilt (and to an extent Oscar's) statistical
>dominance was on another level, even compared with LeBron.

If we're giving Wilt a pass because he played against all-time great teams then Bron should get the same courtesy - particularly because Bron has been the underdog in 5 of the Finals he's played in. Losing to an all-time great San Antonio team (twice) and an all-time great Warriors team should get the same asterisk treatment that you're affording Wilt.

But I always hear "if Bron was that great he would've beaten those teams" - yet where is that analysis to Wilt? It's off-target because basketball is a team game - and never has a stand-alone superstar (without help from other hall of famers) led a team to multiple titles.


-->

and the heat also played 2 other teams that havent been back to the finals since (going 1-1)

not exactly a decade of being turned away by Russell, Cousy, and Havlicek

he's going to cook the record books before he retires

#1 in pts all-time
top 10 in assists
top 20 in rebounds

I will be here to remind you

...yes, rings matter...

but Bron's GOAT claim will be his stats other than rings

...of which he has a few, and will probably be adding more...

datall.

#1 in pts all-time
top 3 in rebounds
top 3 in blocks

that's on top of 6 rings and 6 MVPs (most all-time)


so, Bron will need more than stats to make a GOAT claim.

Good to know.

-->

is trying to set up, then you need to deal with Kareem.

I also think you seem kinda mad about it.

what part are you not understanding?

he is projected to get the #1 all-time points scored spot

...on pace to catch Wilt at #5 THIS YEAR!

Bron is going to be the Babe Ruth, Brett Favre of the NBA when he retires

Q: What NBA player holds the record for...
A: LeBron James

cry.

what part of that are you not getting?

you are trying to set up Bron's GOAT claim based on his stats other than rings

except Kareem has the stats AND the rings

so unless you currently consider Kareem the GOAT, your argument is a non-starter


>he is projected to get the #1 all-time points scored spot
>
>...on pace to catch Wilt at #5 THIS YEAR!
>
>Bron is going to be the Babe Ruth, Brett Favre of the NBA when
>he retires
>
>Q: What NBA player holds the record for...
>A: LeBron James

Kareem has been that guy in the NBA for the last 3 decades

mad?

But what wasn't apparent was that LeBron would be *this* elite this late in his career - easily eclipsing the previous longevity GOAT (Kareem).

But the notion that penalize the guy who's won the 2nd most Finals MVPs in league history for somehow "not winning enough" is silly - particularly when he's won the most playoff games of any player in league history and leads the game in virtually all playoff records.

He's got 4 rings. That's a *lot* -- but when you consider that he's the only player in history to have 3 Finals MVPs w/ 3 different teams?

Yea - that's not something you can cite to degrade his legacy.

so why should it be different for lebron?

a "hater" may still say "he had to join with two other superstars to get his first two!" or even, "it took him 12 tries to get seven! Jordan never lost in the finals!"

Like, it's still gonna be arguments against him regardless of what he does from here. He would legit have to win 4-5 in a row (PLUS Finals MVP) from here on out for not a single person to have a case against him.

if he doesn't get those 4 more majors to tie Jack a lot of people will still say Jack is better. I believe prime Tiger is the GOAT golfer we have ever seen or ever will but the haters will not allow him to move over Jack.

Lebron and MJ isn't as clear cut to me. MJ was amazing and flawless in his finals. Lebron is amazing, had one bad finals appearance and some he couldn't get over the superior team. I can see arguments either way with them tho.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-is-still-getting-better/

-->

...for a person who has been on the job as long as he has. Sports media has been running with this statement for a few weeks (him still getting better) and its just funny to me. Did he just now realize at 6'9 playing the guard position he can post up ANY guard in the league? Step back or pull up 3 on any guard? Or he really doesnt have to pass the ball?

Nigga what took so long!? You King James!

throughout an entire month (at 33).

Yikes.

-->

Who are you ranking ahead of him?

-->

No one else, though. Any argument for anyone else is
completely insane.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

He's special, getting into how special is just a distraction at this point since he's still doing it

this is GOAT achievement. I don't think any player in history could've dragged this team to the Finals.

No Love. No Kyrie. No problem.

-->

No way peak Jordan beats Al Horford, you right

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With LBJ’s latest feat, it still doesn’t change the order of things.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, then anyone else.

I will say that throughout the history the only other player that has done what LeBron has done is Wilt. No other individual in the game of basketball has taken teams like this to the Finals. No matter who is on the roster the result is the same. Wilt was competitive against those Celts teams and even won a chip during the Celts dominance.

i used to be on that 2nd to mj shit.

nah. i seent enough. bron is on some completely other shit.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

Greatest playoff run of all time continues.

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i hear there are some lovely homes available on the main line, mr james!

I've never seen so many long-standing Bron critics concede like they did last night -- "best i've ever seen" has come out of a loooooot of mouths.

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Possibly the best individual playoffs performance of all time as far as I know..

He’s definitely A G.O.A.T.

I’ll stick to: its impossible to compare across eras.

LeBron is the greatest of his era, no question. He’s doing some historic stuff right now. And at 33? Amazing, really.

My top 10 Goat List:
1. Bill Russell 11 Rings
2. Sam Jones 10 Rings
3. Tom Heinsohn 8 Rings
4. K.C. Jones 8 Rings
5. Tom Sanders 8 Rings
6. John Havlicek 8 Rings
7. Jim Loscutoff 7 Rings
8. Frank Ramsey 7 Rings
9. Robery Horry 7 Rings
10. Bob Cousy 6 Rings Michael Jordan 6 rings (tied)

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At least Kareem belongs in the convo with LeBron, perhaps a couple others, but there are at least 2 others on Lebron's level (MJ, LBJ, KAJ)

LeBron could still go down as GOAT when it's all said and done, but not yet.

not 5?

Only player in the game to earn 3 diff. Finals MVPs awards with 3 different franchises.

GOAT Kang Agenda WALK DOWN. Move over Mike.

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and dare i say it's looking favorable for him. i'm very excited to see what the lakers can do going forward.

Do tell.

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wonder if Kenny will squeeze him into his top ten now.. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4Q8kshito

The layout of GOAT achievements was interesting, never saw it that way before. Some other salient points are Jordan being 6'6 and three peating twice.

I think the Cleveland win nullified the Dallas choke in terms of LBJ's career, but in this particular conversation, with two HOF teammates, not winning the title and playing in such pedestrian fashion counts. Sometimes the East has been weak so LBJ getting a team to the finals may not always have been as hard as it was in years past, but that's not his fault and nothing I've held against him. HOWEVER, when he had horses and he was in position to win and played well below his capabilities, especially after stunting on the Bulls in the ECF and being in his EIGHTH season, that shit counts.

>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4Q8kshito
>
>The layout of GOAT achievements was interesting, never saw it
>that way before. Some other salient points are Jordan being
>6'6 and three peating twice.
>
>I think the Cleveland win nullified the Dallas choke in terms
>of LBJ's career, but in this particular conversation, with two
>HOF teammates, not winning the title and playing in such
>pedestrian fashion counts.

So you said the Cleveland win nullifies it, then said that
it doesn't nullify it

LMAO

You're a nerd, and sound upset on a Friday

>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4Q8kshito
>>
>>The layout of GOAT achievements was interesting, never saw
>it
>>that way before. Some other salient points are Jordan being
>>6'6 and three peating twice.
>>
>>I think the Cleveland win nullified the Dallas choke in
>terms
>>of LBJ's career, but in this particular conversation, with
>two
>>HOF teammates, not winning the title and playing in such
>>pedestrian fashion counts.
>
>So you said the Cleveland win nullifies it, then said that
>it doesn't nullify it
>
>LMAO
>
>You're a nerd, and sound upset on a Friday
>

I don't even place a single player as greatest ever. That's not possible, especially when several players never even played during the same time.

My point was Lebron exorcised HIS Dallas demon by the Cleveland win. But if we're comparing him to someone else, then how he did in that Finals counts. Not sure why that's so hard to figure out. I been saying that for years anyhow.

enjoy ur weekend

MJ
Bron
Kobe
The best I’ve seen do it, in that order

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p80wDcZ4P5E

Regardless of how you feel about the take - or Nick Wright - or LeBron --- this was a brilliant, pain-staking in-depth dive into the data, intangibles, and career of LeBron.

His entire top 50 series was special.

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..telling on themselves/their insecurity by relentlessly offering "exhibit #4080 why "

meanwhile, JoeB/MJ just are it.

the Wright piece opened my eyes to just how unique some of Lebron's performances and career accomplishments are. He has more "firsts" and "onlys" on his resume than I ever realized.

There's barely any conjecture in the breakdown, it's mostly just Wright organizing information (not dork stats) and relaying it with a little bit of context but not so much that it feels overwhelmingly biased

I maintain the answer is Mike, but laid out like this Lebron has a legitimate case

most real NBA fans already know?

Nick Wright was in grade school during most of Jordan's prime so his opinion doesn't hold a lot of weight with me.

there's no way most NBA fans know everything he's saying in that video, the detail is crazy but whatever

and the idea that someone has to be a certain age to have a formed opinion on older players is the LAMEST hahaha old ass