got an unpopular opinion? post it here

dude was all energy.. lyrics were trash but the delivery on some of the songs was dope.

He really fucked up Snakes

He did good enough to keep the party going.

niggas must have really been scared of him in the studio cause they needed to tell him to redo that verse.

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I dig his first two albums a lot

Yep....That about it....

Akinele done that style before and he was BETTER

annoy the shit out of me and I can't stand either of their music.

Many people feel that way about both of them.

He was okay, but faaaaar from GOAT status to me.

Early Tupac was much better than later Tupac to me. Later Tupac was slow, sorta depressing and just finding different ways to repeat the same two or three themes.

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Ahhh...This^^^opinion actually explains a lot....

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2001 & 02 Nelly ran the charts

And in 03 50 came in and terrorized niggas

just there, still kinda running things.

Sorta like Beyoncé is a bigger star than Rihanna, even though RiRi got way more hits.

ready to retire, it felt like he may have been the most respected in the game after having a great run, but 50 was still way bigger than him at that point.

What also makes it different is that Jay wasn't really a huge personality, and wasn't doing movies, sitcom appearances, and all that nearly as much as the others.

I felt there wasn't a single year where he was the biggest, hugest rapper out, but he was always Top 3, for like a good 10-12 year stretch, which is actually harder. People took it as me insulting him, which is expected.

The ONLY arguable year to me is 2001...and even then, it felt like commercially, Ja Rule and others were still bigger overall. But 98 was surely DMX. 2003 was surely 50 Cent. 2000 was surely Eminem. 93 was surely Snoop. 95 was surely Big. 96 was Pac. It was never a clear cut year where Jay was THE biggest/hottest rapper.

you would name as the biggest except for Eminem. Selling out the Garden, playing Yankee Stadium...etc.

I think it really depends on the goal posts. You can set a number of years and easily say Jay ran that whole period of 4-8 years more than anyone else, but he was never a clear cut #1. It might be similar to Kobe's run...people feel he was never the for sure #1 player in the league, although he may have been closest in 03 and 06.

I'm saying E-40 is more known and left indelible marks on hip hop than BT has.

I can't think of a BT trademark or slogan or line/verse from any rhyme.

E-40 at the very least has Cape Save a Hoe, Sprinkle Me, and leader of the Hyphy movement TO THE MASSES

Not saying Earl founded hyphy, but he was a Stalwart of the movement

Ghost ride the whip!!!

thanks.

That he's probably the best technical rapper out there, but things fall apart on lyrics, because he's just party rapping.

Web off of TTP is Thought in microcosm - GREAT as a technical statement/achievement, but the lyrics are pretty disposable.

i wouldn't consider what thought does to be party rapping.

Never heard that term before

Just all brags and boasts and how nice I am on the mic etc.

He got a lot better about that as the group aged, but I remember a grip of people saying "yeah, Thought's dope, but he's not really saying anything" during the band's artistic heyday.

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all over this board even?

Hell, here's from the Phrenology thread on OKA

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=19&topic_id=6165&mesg_id=6165&listing_type=search#6192

"majority of the time dude, until recently, was "rhymin for the sake of riddlin.""

"back to my "rhymin for the sake of riddlin'." common has put out three lyrical gems. black has put out? this is not sarcasm, just a query. i mean don't get me wrong, black thought is an incredible mc to me."

"Let me just say, that Thought is one the best MC's of our times. He's an effing machine. But for all his superior ryhming skill and capability his failure has been releatability. I had to be honest with myself (as Thought is my favorite MC) and evaluate why love the cat so much. It comes down to his technical genius and raw execution. But I realized that Thought is not the MC to me that say, Q-Tip is (not that Tip is superior). It's that ability to exude your personality (ala Mos Def or Jay-Z) through your lyrics that Thought lacks. Perhaps he is just, "Black Thought", the deep weirdo cat. Or at least that's what I gather from his lyrics. But not many people relate to a cat like that. "

"BT is nice but he lacks guided content. A lot of his lyrics are like written freestyles, not very concept oriented. I don't think he is anywhere close to Pharoah Monch. Pharoah is a monster with the flow and content. Rass Kass is by far a better MC."

E40 made a song about ninjas "saving" women in the early 90s

That phrase is still in our lexicon right today!

That's a very relatable track.

Jesus christ had dreads....

E40 a great story teller too
Listen to:
Zoom
Boots
Bring the yellow tape
Let em have it

influence in the game.

Give me your top 3 black thought tracks that get your party in philly/NYC jumping and I will SONN THE SHIT OUT OF YOU
with six E40 tracks

Hell that big Sean I don't fuck with you I forgot about

that's what your post title says, even if it's not what you meant.

What do BT rap about?
Content wise.
E40 content and delivery better.

Delivery?
Check that yep/nope track.

I don't know why tall hatin

Rasheed Wallace already caught a bad one.
Hope yall don't as well

he's definitely got more memorable slang words, and maybe songs, but he isn't anywhere near BT as a emcee.

>he's definitely got more memorable slang words, and maybe
>songs, but he isn't anywhere near BT as a emcee.

And for Black Thought to be so "dope" I can't think of any of his rhymes where I be like THAT NIGGA WENT OFF!!!!

Many rappers have a track where ppl be like THAT NIGGA WENT OFF on that shit!
Mystikal - Here I Go
Lil Wayne
Snoop
Nas
Biggie
Jay
Nate Dogg
Pac
Trick Daddy
Phife
TI
Q-Tip
Busta


Every person I listed has a "sound" in your mind when their name comes up.
Black Thought don't have that for many
yes yes the college radio station crowd knows all his verses by heart
but get on the SEPTA right now at Broad and Olney and ask somebody to spit the hook of a BT rhyme
crickets
go to Broad and Tasker ask somebody to spit a E40 hook
they may fumble the exact words
but shit is flowing


Can you give me Black Thought's Top 6 performances?
What's his hottest shit?

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12998014&mesg_id=12998014&listing_type=search

but his impact is too regional. I can't imagine anybody born East of California saying that.

D

Again, nobody knows what BT is known for.
Everybody can tell you E40 rap fast and or crazy

BT don't get burn in Texas or Alabama
E40 do.

Even that track with Too Short go hard with the youngsters

ask a nigga from the Bay or TX who E-40 is...they are all going to sing his praises.

Go ask Madonna or Sheryl Crow or Stevie Wonder who Black Thought is, tho

D

>ask a nigga from the Bay or TX who E-40 is...they are all
>going to sing his praises.
>
>Go ask Madonna or Sheryl Crow or Stevie Wonder who Black
>Thought is, tho
>
>D




The fuck outta here using loose pussy lipped 60 year old alcoholic white jawns as the barometer of RAP MUSIC


Nigga I can't believe you fixed your lips to say that

Why not just say "...in a recent NPR poll..."

LOL

Ahahaaahaha

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Memphis Nigga don't know BT work

Maaaan you will find folks NATIONWIDE that can name you a E40 tune before they can tell you a BT tune or who are TWO members of The Roots and you can spot them Quest

Don't get me wrong BT can wrap
He just not memorable

E40 hasn't charted higher than 42 since 2006

The roots hit 11 last year

Black Thought is also on national TV *every* day. E40 is...not.

Dude is a legit celebrity. E40 isnt. Just the way it is.

>E40 hasn't charted higher than 42 since 2006
>
>The roots hit 11 last year
>
>Black Thought is also on national TV *every* day. E40
>is...not.
>
>Dude is a legit celebrity. E40 isnt. Just the way it is.


You're telling me ANY Roots single charted hi....
maaaaaaan
I don't care where albums charted
I'm talking HEAVY ROTATION
who cares the roots play on some sleepy time ass white boy Johhny Carson ass show where he interview Gwenneth Pauchrow and let Hillary do the naenae

They shit do not BANG

anyway here is your tale of the tape:

roots: http://www.billboard.com/artist/419012/roots/chart
e40: http://www.billboard.com/artist/276018/e-40/chart


keep in mind Ahmir is carrying that entire fucking group
none of them niggas wouldn't eat without Ahmir
sorry but that's the way it is

I know this is they site but Ahmir is a GOAT drummer and them other niggas is replaceable


Again,
I'm telling for real
The Roots shit do not KNOCK in nobody trunk or tape deck in the hood
it just don't
it's artsy fartsy music

when the last time you heard a roots song played at a club?
oh, but you hear they shit played as elevator music in the background for commercials tho (dewayne wade gatorade commercial)

we have DJs here
Ask Double 0 and R-Tistic which Roots tracks they throw on to get shit poppin
ask which e40 tracks BESIDES THE SIX I ALREADY LISTED that get shit poppin

i know BT is yall's boy but he stuck in the 90s with his style

e40 still being featured to this day
remember this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZaJYDPY-YQ

what is the roots BIGGEST song?
it's that track with ERYKAH and SHE made that shit what it is
remove her, put Algebra Blesset or J Davey on it and you got a C-side of a demo tape track.

staying current...
who is draymond paying homage to here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBPzLopf5rw

E-40 is a FUCKIN ICON
why won't nobody give the man his props?

they got ya boy BT playing fuckin Fisher Price instruments and church tamborines singing backup to trendy ass white girls that can't sing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc9MzCcmNCU

yeah he gettin money but how he gone be talking about "sending niggas to your block" on that 75 Bars shit and then his ass
ooooooohhhhh
and then they made the nigga wear a fucking WIG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQRfliyznQ

cmon yo


i know we grow and get money
but he still on some tuff shit at the same time damn near in drag

these dudes really are wearing wigs
i know it's "cute" and all but cmon yo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17QQcK4l6Yw



If that's what you call "success" in the rap game, then yes, BT has Earl Stevens from the Valley Joe beat.


lastly, give me Black Thought's Top 6 tracks (in your mind)
I need to hear this cause I honestly ain't listened to the roots since Things Fall Apart

definitely didn't get that from E-40.

I never heard anyone outside of the West say "It's all good" or talk about saving hoes, either.

I would be surprised if it was anything other than the fact that Just Blaze built the beat around a sample he liked

>but his impact is too regional. I can't imagine anybody born
>East of California saying that.

he (E-40) isn't lying when he talks about how much people steal his words/lines

its gotten to the point where even WHITEFOLKS know what "caping" is (from Cap'n Sav-A-Hoe)

more examples: http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2011/04/e-40s-slang-dictionary

much as i love BT he hasn't affected culture outside of rap like that

at best (at this stage) he's prolly known as the rapping-sidekick-to- jimmy-fallons-sidekick unless you REALLY into hiphop

But that's like Floyd beating ppl on tech skills vs knockouts

E40 have lasting effects
E40 provides that punch that knocked out Pacquiao
BT gives you Floyd last fight immediately before Pacquiao
Yeah I know he won that too but I can't remember who he even fought. Complete snoozefest.

until you see both of them back to back LIVE on stage

these will get the crowd hype and BT will not be able to keep the momentum once 40 water leaves the stage:

intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9WSTnTpFQI

then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7vQSPBtwyc

followed by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je8K_hCej3s

then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-fL-vdcBWo

last song of set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GZbaXdK8Js

this is going to be his outro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zbw3KzgHBU



I honestly didn't know any BT rhymes so I decided to go over his body of work.
When I went to youtube and put in Black Thought and sorted by viewcount these are a few of his top viewed videos. none are over 1M views:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pcu6dbTb00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2G_6TGuTXw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4mmuz90nNY




BT may be a tactician or a great MC to listen in your dorm room with your boys eating cheetos and debate if Doggystyle or Illmatic deserved 5 Mics

but it's not 10,000 seat arena filled to the brim at Homecoming music

l luh dat song (might be one of the greatest hooks EVER)

on some personal theme song ish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFfcf2y__DY

also...

all this time i had no idea that was x-scape khandi (I never saw the video before)

red cup is some super nunu that i'm not totally up on and didn't think the MASSES go for it but it does soundlike 95% of the youth go for that kinda sound

**but where's KANDI???

i had no idea it was her

re: red cup...i'm old as gravity and that joint bangs

>i had no idea it was her
>
>re: red cup...i'm old as gravity and that joint bangs

got her out the tub and lotioning her down then for some reason i started whistling u and dat
her momma's ears perked up like "i know that from somewhere" LoL
but yeah, i taught lil momma how to whistle to u and dat

i know FLUIDJ will *NOT* approve!

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12998744&mesg_id=12998744&listing_type=search

!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm7Xt2Qsjcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJCHeEQV454

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51K4gqmgoPU


that shit all sound the same even though it's a 15 year time difference

and then WHAT IS HE SAYING?

like what is he even talking about?

when the people cheer...

I’m down to 95 dollars, that’s the extent of my riches
Out of 99 problems, 98 of ‘em is bitches
Out here hollerin' what’s ironic is
I’ve honestly been tryna do what’s right
But some jawn legs in the air tonight, like Phil Collins
I’m a sex-addicted introvert
Sucker for a pencil skirt
Looking for a shorty coming from work, that I can pervert
On my existential grind doing consequential dirt
Searchin’ for physical pleasure if I don’t go mental first
Molly poppin’, trolley hoppin’
Know somebody prolly watchin’
That ain’t stoppin’ me from coppin’ a feel
Karate choppin’ in this after-hours spot
Watching mommy body rockin’
First I feed her vodka shots then she eat my Johnnie Cochran
Livin’ fast, drinkin’ capt'
One of them hoes even had
The audacity ask me how long this thing would last
I said, “You wanna pay for class? Get on that stage and shake your ass.”
She keep a dick in a box and in an emergency break the glass
I make her laugh
She makes it clap
And then she gives me lap dances and I’m thankful that
She keeps providing the place for me to be unfaithful at…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poppin%27+ya+collar

The term was originally used in this sense by the rapper E-40.





I'm sorry but I can't let yall shit on this GIANT in the rap game

He may not be your cup of tea but dude has been a BEAST contributing to this art form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6wkPVjciD4


cmon man
e-40 got the ears of 45 year olds and 15 year olds at the same time
how many artists can say that?
kanye
jay
who else?

i will NOT let 40 Water's name die in vein!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_9RPyF6nE

Same way they play Sweet Caroline at Red Sox games evey damn game in 2016 is the same way they still playing E-40 tracks in 2016.

LEGEND!!!!

Pharoah tries to be too deep and fit too much shit in each line

I only like early Talib... when he's in a group context. Like the MOOD or Black Star stuff. The production he's on is what helps or hurts him too, imo.

I haven't cared to get into Monch past the Organized stuff

I have most of Lupe but he rarely gets replay from me. I only heard T&Y twice since I got it the day it came out.


"I'm twenty-two, catch
In the prime of my life,
I don't have time to be a wife"

https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul
https://instagram.com/soul.con.fusion/

"She was on that tip about stoppin' the violence
About my people she was teachin' me..."

IDC what some of these miserable, Game Stop, basement living, Doritos crunching, cheese samich eating clowns say.
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https://thecycle.media/haters-are-a-drakes-best-friend-e28b568028de#.3o9atecxx

Haters are a Drake’s Best Friend

For the past twenty years or so, there’s been a default rapper image: a swirl of drug-dealing, violence, and most importantly, being “hard.” Always gotta be hard.

Enter Drake.

Drake is none of these things. He’s the most emotional, goofy, introspective rapper ever to grace a mic. From day 1, his detractors have called him soft, his music effeminate, his swag corny. And the more noise the internet mob made, the more Drake gave them to hate on. He literally doubled down on himself.

People say Drake is a bad singer: Drake sings more.

People say Drake is just a R&B vocalist: Drake raps.

People say Drake is a huge basketball Stan: Drake becomes the Toronto Raptors’ ambassador and ultimate fanboy.

People say Drake is a goofy failed child actor masquerading as a rapper: Drake goes on Jimmy Fallon and acts goofy as hell, talks about being a failed child actor, and masquerades as a rapper.

When Drake got into a well publicized beef with rapper Meek Mill, he destroyed his adversary by turning his own softness into a lethal weapon, rapping: “You’re getting bodied by a singing nigga.” Drake dismantled Meek — a strong rapper who happens to be the embodiment of the traditional rap stereotype — by referring to himself the way his haters do.

Haters love creating memes that make fun of Drake. What does Drake do? He makes his art more meme-able. He designed the Hotline Bling video to be memed, and it was, over and over. And the more memes that were created, the more popular the song became…and the more everyone appreciated Drake, haters included. Hater judo!

Prior to the release of his new album Views, Drake leaked its cover art, in which he sits alone atop Toronto’s iconic CN Tower on a dark, emotional evening. Drake knew what would happen. Immediately, people began to take little Drake off the tower and place him pretty much everywhere, from the moon to Roger Goodell’s podium in the NFL Draft. There was a microsite, live 24 hours after Drake dropped the album art, dedicated to letting people put little Drake anywhere they wanted. People spent weeks celebrating an album they hadn’t even listened to yet. And actually now that the album’s out, people aren’t sure what to talk about. Musician Drake is nothing compared to Internet Drake.

His peers are taking note. Beyoncé is selling Boycott Beyoncé t-shirts, getting way out in front of the internet backlash against her (amazing) Black Panther-inspired performance in the Super Bowl halftime show. Kanye’s I Love Kanye is a song in which Kanye becomes his haters, shrewdly amplifying the endlessly reiterated criticisms of his art and persona.

Today, embracing your haters makes you more popular. Your detractors become the engine of your personal brand, the gas that sets the internet on fire, giving you its undivided attention. Your advocates become superfans, and your haters begin loving the process of hating you.

This modern, internet-savvy approach to Hater Management stands in stark contrast to the days when celebrities had no means to speak directly to the public. Back then, conventional wisdom was that the path to commercial success was through cultivating a public image as pristine and guarded as the White House.

But that’s ’90s PR, dawg. Now it’s 2016, and when it comes to handling the haters, nobody’s doing it better than Aubrey Graham.

As far as pop musicians go, the pretty much
created that... ironically, he performed with
her before the Hotline Bling video came out.
Funny thing I don't understand about Drake
fans is that they give him credit for all kinds
of stuff he didn't create.

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Boot Camp Click aint nothing to Wu Tang. (c) The Late Great Sean Price

Dah Shinin'

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Not matching the Wu's output during the same period.

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When you talk about the greatest of all time BCC albums....

Enta Da Stage
Da Shinin
Nocturnal
Sean P's solo material
and maaaaaaaaaybe The Storm

compare that to

Enter the Wu
Iron Man
OB4CL
Wu-Tang Forever
Bobby Digital
Ghost Solo Shit
Shit...even The Pillage and Heavy Mental

I hear you on that bar for bar shit....but Bar for Bar Pharoahe Monch is better than 99.999% of the MC's in the game

But I ain't saying his catalog is better than Jay. That's ludicrous.

You entitled to your opinion, tho....I guess lol

D

Most of the BCC cats were average lyrically with the exception of Sean P. Their strengths were their voices, flow and delivery. Even then, I wouldn't give any of them the edge over anyone in the Wu except for maybe U-God, ODB, and Masta Killa.

Meth, GZA, Rae, Ghost, INS are far more superior than BCCs best MC, Sean P. Hell, Meth MURDERED Heltah Skeltah on their own shit (Gunz and Onez on Magnum Force).

hes not a good rapper.
hes just not.

Benzi Box in particular.

Plus, he got one of the few "non-bored" performances on record from Kweli (I love Kwe, but he always sounds bored in the studio) on "Sold School Rules"

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you know tho

he's a great character

At best like the fifth most interesting or engaging character in the show.

Hell Bill Burr's character was better and he had like 10 lines the whole series.

White's backstory and motivations are nonsensical. He's practically a conflicting character.

What's great about Walt's backstory is that it's anchored by the same thing as his "cooking": the desire for the quick fix. He stepped out of his passion (with both Grey Matter AND Ms. Black) for the guaranteed, stable paycheck of teaching rather than risking failure for the greater success of his startup. With the cancer diagnosis, he's jolted into a) not giving a fuck and b) knowing that his decision to go into teaching has left his family fiscally fucked. It's why he initially plans to forgo treatment. His pride, which is what will lead him deeper and deeper into the meth game, plus whatever residual longing he has for Laurie, keeps him from accepting the payout from the Blacks. And so, when he's presented with another "quick fix," he takes it. And yes, he could have easily quit once he "got ahead," pride's a motherfucker.

In a mirror.

.seinfeld

how much you loved what happened to Cranston's character in Crash.

generations are dumb, but this latest group of young people gets way more hate than credit.

By distilling their "rebellion" into cynicism and removal, they've largely failed to provide any actual resistance to the generation before them (in the way that the counterculture wing of the boomer generation did at some point during the 60s), thus further extending the reign of the Boomers.

Gen X has done so in a more veiled and insidious way. The modern music festival is a perfect microcosm of this.

any articles out there that talks about this?

I am over like fuck the hand-wringing about "millennials" and how bad they are. FOH.

they were handed a lot of shit and more is coming.

though (as always) I won't throw them all in the bucket, Baby Boomers gave us Reagan and Bush.

how do we go from funk and soul jams to the most emasculated wind chime-y, soft pad, and sweep filled music? where are the balls?

There is PLENTY of good shit out there, Im talking about the mainstream stuff

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No one talks about issues, real situations, family friends or real grounded love anymore.

it's just a bunch of talk singing (tinging) assholes and thin voiced women going over the same 50 ways to screw and spend money to stunt.


______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

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He somehow managed to build an entire career around biting the same beach boys song over and over again

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Taylor Swift, Flying Lotus, or Kendrick Lamar?

But hey all producers can have a slight influence for a season, but Three 6 ain't change nothing in the game.


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But they OWN the game. And then, people think Dolph and sometimes even Gotti are from ATL because of it.

He was driving so he had the radio on lock....played nonstop Three 6.

By the 3rd or 4th song I had to give them their props. More of a Ball and MJG dude myself....but yeah. I have to agree.

D

"the market."

Rage is close though. Kurupt too.

purple tape needs to be sent off into space so other civilizations can study and appreciate.

Somehow people confused it's cult classic status (which it deserves) with actual classic status and now you've got a bunch of dopes who put it in the class of godfather 1 & 2 and goodfellas which is absurd.

______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

*come at me*

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i have legit arguements (the main one being: East Coat Bias that automatically upgraded anything from NYC over anything from elsewhere)

not saying Illmatic is bad, but there are things that make it less than perfect (on the level its hyped up as)

meanwhile, southern.... has more sustained excellence as a debut (and some of the best skits thematically of any hiphop album) AND its not even the best from them whereas Illmatic was peak Nas

Wouldn't say it's better though.

as stated, i got actual reasons beyond which i *like* more (which is why I didn't word it that way)

so i don't really disagree.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

seriously: born in Denver, peoples all over (west, south, east, and abroad)

won't get it.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but for being "10 songs with no filler" the first is a throwaway and two are particularly "meh" (one time for your mind and represent) and those looped beats throughout can EASILY get sonically irritating due to repetitiveness. AND the subject matter doesn't vary much. a good debut for sure.

meanwhile

i don't think the rapping skills shown by either Big or Dre on Southern.. is demonstrably worse than Nas on illmatic AND it's sonically (instrumentally) more varied AND it's longer so a track-for-track comparison would leave Illmatic lacking

>and those looped beats throughout can
>EASILY get sonically irritating due to repetitiveness.

A LOT of folks feel that's what "Real Hip Hop" is.

Personally, I think some of those kinda tracks can be repetitive when it's a literal 4 bar loop ALL song, but that wasn't the case on Illmatic. I love "Represent" and on there, the hook and verses definitely have a different melody going on. "NY State of mind" keeps you into it whenever the bassline drops out.

Sothern is full of them too, but look at "Ain't No Thang" (for example) that loop is MUCH more interesting because it give you a range of sounds

past that, listen to D.E.E.P there is NOT a single beat on Illmatic that has that much going on (baseline, horns, scratching, maaaaaaaaaan)

listen to the menace and clarity in using actual instruments on Hootie Hoo

Rocky movies (possibly excepting Creed), and in the conversation with Raging Bull.

WOW

like stupid stupid. I dont know who you are but your opinion on anything from here on out is not valid. But then I probably will forget you once I hit post message.

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World Party would be considered a very good album if it had been released a couple of years later than it was.

One of the top tier 1-2 albums released by a collective in the history of Hip Hop....so I can rock with you there.

But I don't give a fuck if you shot World Party into a time capsule and it crash landed back to earth 2 eons from now...it'd still be huff.

D

folks weren't ready for a party record

we wanted them to stay mostly deep

yes, it flopped because it was a party record at a time when people didn't want to hear that from THIS group with all the work they had done on the previous 2 albums

But please let's not pretend that was a good album. It just wasn't.

I tried to relisten to it a year ago just to see if I was caught up at the time and couldn't see it for what it was.

It's not very good. At all.

D

ICU is the shit! Other than that... SMH

(I forgot lala was on the intro)

track by track breakdown (through today's lens):

World Party -> OK (B level)

chain swang -> A

Get Rich to This -> B (but very "un-goodie mob", from cell therapy to this? perfectly endemic of the problem with this record))

the dip -> C- (this sounds like one of those disco-a$$ songs cee-lo is doing now)

all a's -> B (this would have actually fit on soul food as a b-side)

what it ain't -> C (TLC sounds dated as hell)

ICU -> A (mainly due to sleepy and the beat)

rebuilding -> B- (another soul food b-side, this time an a-side though)

street corner -> C

cutty buddy -> D (nah dog, this sounds like something they'd play on Tuesday in a really seedy stripclub)

fie fie delish -> D

go back -> F its just an abbreviated outro and completely throwaway. i have no idea why they put this on there at all

not a single track would go on a "best of" even the stuff I gave As were independent of THEIR best, instead judged in a vaccum of "do I hate this?"

overall, it's definitely week on it's own and AGAIN a really bad dropoff. the sequencing is a mess leaving you with an album that doesn't seem to know what it wanted to be (there aren't as many party track as i remembered)

Rico was out of his MIND on Soul Food.

.

IMO Still Standing is basically transcendent. And better.

was he a lyricist/spitter? Hell no. He never claimed to be.

But for cadence/energy/delivery? Haven't been many that can fuck with Unique Ason before or since.

D

I'd actually love for someone to prove me wrong on this. But Jamie Lidell, Tuxedo, Mark Ronson, Mayer Hawthorne, Disclosure.

I mean I just came across these dudes Honne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX5f0NcqlMs

Fire.

These R&B Nerds AudioDamn!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIOe1SR3rEY



I do think this dude Dornik is black

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj7AOYwo8vA


I mean you can argue this stuff isn't R&B, but damn if it don't knock.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

this shit grooves and it aint even in english

I think he ENDED UP as a not good rapper, but his work up to and including Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version is brilliant. (He had some missteps for sure, Fantasy was god awful.)

Here's the thing: HE WAS FUNNY.

That goes a long way for me.

And in a literary sense he was a *great* unreliable narrator.

You couldn't tell what was true, was was made up, and what was said in a non-sequitur way. And a lyric that followed a line could change the meaning of both lyrics on the fly.

This review (from Wikipedia) say what's great about ODB until 1995.

Melody Maker (4/22/95, p. 35) - "...an hour of cruel hard and frighteningly funny hip hop; the perfect companion piece to Wu-Tang's 36 Chambers...the songs are driven by a vicious, unstable urgency."

I'm convinced that if you have them in your faves you are either 1) Fiercely Hispanic or 2) Don't give a fuck about lyrics.

>I'm convinced that if you have them in your faves you are
>either 1) Fiercely Hispanic or 2) Don't give a fuck about
>lyrics.


Um...most of the praise they get is from their production work...On THAT front they were GREAT.....Sick beats...

.

The Beatnuts were a production duo before a group....That's my point....Most of the shine they get isn't even for their own albums....

they made some pretty incredible beats from time to time and got a few classic joints...

...BUT it ain't like when people are listing the GOATS and they are going "EPMD, RUN-DMC, Beastie Boys, Outkast, Tribe, De La" that someone chimes in everytime like "YO YO YO!!! Don't forget Beatnuts!"

A technically skilled rapper whose skills get lost in the craziness of what he is saying and delivery.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

this aint just unpopular...

it seems like it's about 2 random rappers you didn't mention

neither of those guys were good technically...

they both get by on being hilarious...one crazy hilarious...the other one retarded hilarious

but ODB could ride a beat as good as the best.


>this aint just unpopular...
>
>it seems like it's about 2 random rappers you didn't mention
>
>neither of those guys were good technically...
>
>they both get by on being hilarious...one crazy
>hilarious...the other one retarded hilarious
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

There is no father. Thus the bastard part. Never mind, I am talking to myself. If I go cray, I bet you niggers would be the voices in my head because they say demons are evil.

Of course we've also produced some of the greatest (Souls, Hiero, too short, etc)

yeesh....

dope beats, dope lyrically.

whats that old saying about the sun shining on a dog's behind?

doesn't make what i said untrue. both of those are certified classics.

seriously. the bay has sooooo much classic hip hop, that it easily balances out the trash, just like the east, the west, the south, the midwest.

it's largely been just noise to me (except for those you mentioned and of course digital underground).

youngins get on BART blasting it on the speaker phone and my ears start to bleed.

i vaguely remember in like '02 a colleague aggressively trying to argue that san quinn and jt the bigga figga >>>> any east coast emcee.

i'm actually asking, cuz i'm too old for ANY of that madness

music, aside from Buck Beats, which were just aggressive 88 BPM instrumentals that some of the kid producers made here. Such as this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K33jzYAM-Rg

But with Jerkin, there was actual music to it. It was nothing but stripped down Hyphy originally...extremely, super amateur sounding. But then it evolved and advanced, and DJ Mustard & League of Starz took the blueprint and made something legit from it.

It annoys the hell outta me when people say Mustard "stole" the Bay's sound...when in reality, he took elements of Hyphy AND Mob which hadn't really been done before Function, which had Super Hyphy's snare and a Mob sounding bassline.

As was Tyga....

He bridged new boyz with mustard beats, ti$a hats and chris brown..

Nurses and doctors, sure, but if you want to get your "spiritual" life in order before you die that should be on you, your family, or your church.

another question: why cant the spiritual "advice" be seen as a "quality of life" thing like a psychologist, psychologist or any other counselor (or do you think those shouldn't be paid for either)?

Some level of counseling I'm on board with, but not spiritual counseling.

I don't want my tax dollars paying clergy, period.*

*prison chaplains I'm probably actually good with. Military I'm not completely sure.

how come spiritual counseling is excluded for you?

I don't think churches should be tax exempt either.

(financially/career-wise of course not)

Beyonce's singing voice is VERY limited and desperately needs some bottom (and more clarity in the highs) to balance it out

they were just window dressing and from day 1 never intended to sound (or look) better than her

BUT they do prove my point 100% of bouncy with the harmonies (which were good on DC records) and she becomes too monotone over the course of a whole album

not in the traditional sense, no...but the shit he did on tracks was amazing. he was a great musician

I know, I know

I didn't even need to post that. But I did anyway.

I have other views that would be even more unpopular around here. But I want to be popular. As long as it doesn't require me to pretend Bernie Sanders isn't a fucking fraud.

She always tells the truth?

But yes, let's keep this thread fun. I wasn't trying to start a politics tangent. Just joking about my new and less-beloved image around here.

.

...But it could easily be argued that dude is the GOAT, including the '60s and beyond modern music era.....This is something I've been coming around to since his death.....And yeah...I'm saying dude, as an overall package, edges out Stevie, Jimi, James Brown, Sly, Bowie, the Beatles, MJ, the Stones, Marvin, Elton, George Clinton and crew, Joni, the Queen of Soul or anybody else u wanna bring up...

I will cut someone who says differently....Don't mind me...

the funny thing, I was leaning toward this myself for years.

I'm just not interested in the Prince "competition" topic

Prince is the singular most prolific and gifted songwriter of the 20th century, IMO. that's only going off the things most people were allowed to know. Stevie Wonder is his only competition in that regard (he was someone I think really pushed forward the possibilities of "popular" music and made someone like a Prince possible)

and the fact that he ended up being a pop star with his talents is still mind-blowing.

I like most of Biggie's pop records, but I don't get the hype around this one at all.

not a fan of giant cartoon asses

It's not attractive.

it does look ridiculous, especially now because she has an actual big ass under that padding.

Everyone came through Guwop that's jumpin today
#freegucci

Am I the only oldhead? I call foul analyzing return to the 36 sober or unhigh. It wasn't made for sober analysis, AT ALL. If you don't get that from the intro, you need to stop there. This nigger was fucked up. Shit, we had niggers like Rodman back then on the court same way. Watch the videos. Get fucked up and play this shit, just like he said. Stop the fucking blasphemy though young ones. Don't expose yourself like a drunk girl with no pantyhose in a tight dress.

Nicki doesn't have any songs that anyone would call a classic. That's why she's selling moscato and perfume now. All of her studio releases have been trash.

Azealia is a better singer and rapper than Nicki, and any other commercial female rapper out right now for that matter.

Atlanta is underrated.

The U.S. Constitution is the cause of many of our problems.

Stakes is High is better than 3 Feet High and Rising.

Rah Digga is underrated.

Pep Love is better than Del.

Wes Anderson makes unfunny, self-indulgent trash.

He was a gifted rapper, but all that HEY HEEEY HEYYYYYYYYYYYY shit he would do got on my nerves when it was overboard. On the low he murdered his appearances on the first two Wu albums. Well, except for Dog Shit which proves my case.

I'M NOT THE FIRST DOG THAT SHITTED ON YA LAWN

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

D

Mos Def fell off after his solo album. Jay Electroinca is nice but he didnt drop that much for people to act like hes one of the best doing it.

Ive said this before. People lose their minds, but if they think hard about it it's true.

agreed.

I Got 5 On It isn't the jam people act like it is

and i never got the feeling doggystyle was off the dome

But The Shiznit, pump Pump, stuff like that is almost for sure.

nothing before it not anything after it sounds like it
murda was tha case sounds like walt whiteman or arundhati roy wrote it

almost sterile sounding

I kid, but that Last Dragon soundtrack is my shit.

albums...

The Mack Soundtrack, Foxy Brown Soundtrack are probably his best known albums, but he made a ton of albums in the 70's and all of them are really really good.