According to a post I just saw from Shams, the Knicks are firing Thibs.
I'm a little surprised, but he certainly had his flaws as a head coach. If memory serves me correct, he only has two more years left on his current contact, so it won't cost the Knicks too much in that regard.
Castro, I'm assuming you're somewhere going the Dance of Joy from Perfect Strangers right now.
I'm very very curious now what else Leon Rose has in store in terms of roster reconstruction.
I also wonder if this was ordered by Dolan or not.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
4. "The knee-jerk timing makes it seem like a decision Dolan would make" In response to Reply # 1
While it appears Thibs' coaching style has flaws, he has brought three franchises back to relevance. Despite the god-awful amount of minutes he plays his players, they all like playing for him and they mostly avoid major injuries. His offenses aren't pretty, but he consistently makes the playoffs.
I see why pundits and fans think he should change things up because it seems those minor (or at least seemingly minor) changes could make the difference between a good and a great coach. However, he's had a lot of success with teams, usually with lesser talent.
I guess it depends on who they bring in. I'm not sure Malone is the answer. He seems more like a lateral move. The offense might get better, but those Denver teams were never better than mediocre on defense.
Mike Brown would be interesting. I'd rather not see Coach Bud. Maybe Vogel? He's won a title and is used to coaching in a major market.
5. "I'm assuming the front office" In response to Reply # 4
already have their mind set on who will be the replacement given how quick the firing was.
I'd prefer Johnnie Bryant, but I'm assuming that'll be slim to nil.
Interesting to see first Randle and now Thibs leaving the franchise given how both people helped the Knicks in recent years improve drastically. Unfortunately, both dudes definitely have the relative ceilings and limitations in terms of getting to that championship level.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
11. "He runs his starters into the ground just like Thibs does" In response to Reply # 7
That would be a mistake IMO, but I do think the front office will more than likely go with a re-tread, so there is a possibility Mike Malone will get the nod.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
6. "had my gripes with Thibs...." In response to Reply # 1
now that he's out, not so sure how I feel.
It was wild that he completely changed his whole rotation strategy during the Indiana series....felt like he should have been giving the bench more minutes throughout the whole season.
If he continued to made some adjustments like that, could have seen him continuing this momentum into the next season.
he wasn't perfect....but Knicks have had a long history of shitty coaches, so a bit nervous for what the alternative will be.
could be down with Jeff Van Gundy coming back as coach
8. "KD is a negative for any young team...surly, only cares about himself" In response to Reply # 2
doesnt want to win, just wants to collect his 25 10 and 5 and argue under his burner accounts
>thankfully Zion recused himself from that discussion > >not since the Red Wings of the late 90s have I had LESS desire >for one of my teams to make a major move than I do for these >pistons. > >bench big, bench frontcourt scorer, fin > >
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
hes a multiple time champ, scoring champ, mvp, finals mvp, etc.
i think saying KD doesn't care about winning is hilarious.
he's been bit by the injury bug since he left Golden State, and he's been on a couple teams (Brooklyn and Phoenix) that were good at best (far from great) that are gonna struggle to succeed if he's not playing every night (which he wasn't).
13. "anything when not playing with Steph Curry?" In response to Reply # 12
>hes a multiple time champ, mvp,
they won without him before he got there, and they won without him after he left
>i think saying KD doesn't care about winning is hilarious.
i mean, its been 6 years of drama, and a Finals team got worse when he showed up
>he's been bit by the injury bug since he left Golden State, >and he's been on a couple teams (Brooklyn and Phoenix) that >were good at best (far from great) that are gonna struggle to >succeed if he's not playing every night (which he wasn't).
he was on the court when his team got swept in the first round 2 of the last 3 seasons, and the Suns finished with 36 wins when he played 62 games. pretty sure they didnt go 36-26 in those games.
if he was Lebron id be flame broiling his ass, so im now realizing even *I* give him a pass
14. "outside of KD and Book, are the Suns any good?" In response to Reply # 13 Wed Jun-04-25 01:42 PM by PROMO
OMG, KD won rings on a good, championship caliber team! what a novel concept.
you think the Nets or the Suns were title contenders? LOL.
what you can "blame" KD for perhaps is making some bad career moves.
but saying he doesn't CARE about winning when dude cried on camera about his love of basketball and will use up time out of his day when he could but doing rich shit to argue online with a guy in Nebraska who has Dorito crumbs in his belly button? FOH.
15. "I wouldn't go as far as saying he doesn't care about winning" In response to Reply # 14
But this is an absurd level of excuse-making for KD's last few years.
> >you think the Nets or the Suns were title contenders? LOL.
What??? The Nets were title contenders and the Suns should have been. Saying otherwise is revisionist history. Even accounting for injuries and whatnot these are 2 of the most disappointing teams in this century, if not ever.
16. "RE: I wouldn't go as far as saying he doesn't care about winning" In response to Reply # 15 Wed Jun-04-25 02:34 PM by PROMO
^^^^
well that's what's being said.
>What??? The Nets were title contenders and the Suns should >have been. Saying otherwise is revisionist history. Even >accounting for injuries and whatnot these are 2 of the most >disappointing teams in this century, if not ever.
i guess people would make that argument on paper at the start of the year, but once you see a team on the COURT? you can tell the Suns FOR SURE were not that team, this year or LAST. Nets had a better argument and then, KD's toe and they lost the Buck who won it all IIRC.
and yeah, injuries matter. you might end up, as the Suns did last year, in the 6 spot playing a WCF team that is/was better. now, if they are healthy? maybe they are the 3rd or 4th seed w/ a first round home series? i dunno but you can't just shoo away injuries, lol (not saying you are but you kinda are).
i'm disappointed by KD's last few years FOR SURE, but this all started off saying "KD doesn't care about winning" or whatever and that's just a dumb thing to say IMO.
18. "its HIS job to turn "on paper" into wins!!" In response to Reply # 16
"i guess people would make that argument on paper at the start of the year, but once you see a team on the COURT? you can tell the Suns FOR SURE were not that team, this year or LAST."
i feel like im in the twilight zone where its anyone else's fault EXCEPT their best and most highly paid player who was in the news a lot, and not always for what happened on the court
19. "RE: I wouldn't go as far as saying he doesn't care about winning" In response to Reply # 16
> >i guess people would make that argument on paper at the start >of the year, but once you see a team on the COURT? you can >tell the Suns FOR SURE were not that team, this year or LAST.
It wasn't just injuries that made them not that team, it was also an awful team culture, which KD was partly responsible for.
>Nets had a better argument and then, KD's toe and they lost >the Buck who won it all IIRC.
They followed up that season with getting swept in the first round twice in a row. And yes, injuries played a big part, but so did an awful team culture, which KD was partly responsible for.
i dunno but you can't >just shoo away injuries, lol (not saying you are but you kinda >are).
by the same token, you can't shoo away all expectations just cause injuries happen. there's no excuse for a team as talented as the Suns, with a payroll that rivals NASA's budget, not even making the play-in. And yet, I think he's been mostly shielded from criticism for the failures of these teams cause he's got those Warriors rings. He certainly didn't take as much heat as Kyrie and Harden for the Nets' failures.
20. "Here's the part where I reiterate that KD never should have left the..." In response to Reply # 19
...Warriors. Again, when his career ends, he'll say he never should have left OKC, but he'll know he should have never left the Bay.
I don't like playing "What if...?" games, but there's no reason to believe that they would stop winning once he healed from the injury that kept him out of 2020. And Curry would have likely have kept being content playing the Robin role. And now we'd probably be debating how high KD ranks on the all-time list.
25. "hes still gonna be on THE all time list" In response to Reply # 20
just not very high. hard to see any leadership at all outside of the quality of his play, which is at worst, consistently very good. he even appears to be a very good human being.
but despite that, his teams just shuffle along because he has no ability whatsoever to rally the troops.
i dont actually think he doesnt care about winning, but i also think he is completely unsuitable for leading a winning team. he can clearly be the best player on a champion, but spiritually its gotta be someone else's team.
26. "ding ding ding ding." In response to Reply # 25
but i also >think he is completely unsuitable for leading a winning team. >he can clearly be the best player on a champion, but >spiritually its gotta be someone else's team.
complaining about him not being a leader on PHX and BKN? he's NOT THAT. he's never been that. he wasn't that in OKC or GSW. some people want him to be something he's not. everyone isn't Michael Jordan.
that doesn't necessarily make him a bad teammate, either.
he's still a top 15 player all time, right now (i say "right now" as those lists change over time).
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 87021 posts
Wed Jun-18-25 12:03 AM
35. "Very obviously correct." In response to Reply # 30
The guy made the WCF at 22, Finals at 23, WCF again at 25. He had foot surgery at 26... and was back in the WCF at 27. It's ridiculous to suggest he's not a winner. He's just not a better winner than the guys he lost to from 23 on-- Bron, Tim Duncan, Steph. That's okay! And yes, post-Achilles, he was never quite the same player outside of his offensive output. Which means he'll never be a Top 10 guy. Again, okay! Still very much a winning player and one of the very best players of my lifetime.
22. "Can we consider that maybe KD WAS an all time great?" In response to Reply # 21
> >If Mitch Richmond had been 7', he would have definitely turned >teams into contenders. > > >I can't believe anyone could fix their fingers to defend KD at >this point. > > >There is plenty of data now that he is just a weirdo loser who >just happens to be a physical specimen with a wet j. > > >He isn't cracking any serious person's top...name any >reasonable number. 20, 30, 50. > >He ain't that. Plenty of evidence.
When he was in his 20’s he was a perennial first team All NBA guy who won championships in GS and had OKC as a contender.
He tore his achilles, got older, and in his 30’s has been an often injured guy who still scores a lot of points and is all star caliber, but is past his prime.
He was a top 3-5 player in the league for a decade.
24. "I think it's hard to leave KD out of the top 20/25" In response to Reply # 21
Actually think he makes a strong case to be in the Hakeem/Giannis/Kawhi tier - maybe even higher - both because of his longevity and just flat-out being one of *the* very best volume scorers the game has ever seen. I do think he gets docked a bit for the GSW era rings, but they're still rings (with 2 finals MVPs to boast). But it was just too easy to win those rings with makeup of that team; low degree of difficulty.
I think it's fair to say KD has exceeded expectations when he first got drafted to Seattle, becoming one of the all-time greats. Worthy rival to all the top guys in his era and bonafide MVP caliber for many years. Also felt like his legacy upped a notch with his Olympic performance. He was the glue to that team in a lot of the big moments, contributed and played clutch when it mattered most.
27. "hes a top 15 player of all time, but doesnt help the pistons NOW" In response to Reply # 12 Thu Jun-05-25 06:24 AM by guru0509
I was courtside for this entire stint with the nets...Season ticket holder for that 3 year stretch
He was a whiny spineless bitch who danced to the tune of Kyrie's flute and refused to take the reins of leadership despite being the most accomplished on that team.
urged the front office to get rid of Kenny Atkinson for Steve Nash
put pressure on marks to get rid of jarret allen for deandre jordans old ass
Just an absolute dumpster grease garbage fire
and this has carried over to Phoenix.
There is a reason why his asking price has crashed considerably and the Suns are now shopping him for cheap
damaged goods and far more likely to be a negative influence on a young rising team than a positive, especially if his minutes / numbers dwindle
i think he's mentally checked out , if he leads his new team deep into the playoffs ill take my L (he doesnt even have to win a ring)
>hes a multiple time champ, scoring champ, mvp, finals mvp, >etc. > >i think saying KD doesn't care about winning is hilarious. > >he's been bit by the injury bug since he left Golden State, >and he's been on a couple teams (Brooklyn and Phoenix) that >were good at best (far from great) that are gonna struggle to >succeed if he's not playing every night (which he wasn't). > >so....what are we talking about?
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
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