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Subject: "NBA MVP?" Previous topic | Next topic
ThaTruth
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Fri Jan-05-24 09:15 PM

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"Poll question: NBA MVP?"


          

Poll result (12 votes)
Embiid (6 votes)Vote
SGA (1 votes)Vote
Tatum (0 votes)Vote
Haliburton (0 votes)Vote
Edwards (0 votes)Vote
Somebody else? Post it below… (5 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Today? 1. Jokic. 2. SGA. 3. Embiid.
Jan 05th 2024
1
RE: Today? 1. Jokic. 2. SGA. 3. Embiid.
Jan 06th 2024
3
So you're saying Jokic got robbed last year
Jan 06th 2024
4
Yep
Jan 06th 2024
5
And yet, right today, Jokic is the MVP favorite at DraftKings.
Jan 06th 2024
6
      RE: And yet, right today, Jokic is the MVP favorite at DraftKings.
Jan 06th 2024
8
i agree with this ranking
Jan 06th 2024
7
jokic
Jan 05th 2024
2
Shai
Jan 07th 2024
9
Yo! What up, Thunder Buddy (c) lol
Jan 07th 2024
10
What’s up!
Jan 07th 2024
11
Now wait a goddamn minute, lol.
Jan 09th 2024
12
welcome back nm
Jan 09th 2024
13
It's now Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum
Jan 14th 2024
14
First two are certainly 1A and 1B in some order.
Jan 14th 2024
15
Shai is putting up prime Jordan numbers (stat comparison):
Jan 14th 2024
16
Embiid if he gets enough games in
Jan 14th 2024
17
Embiid should not win MVP again based on prevalent Okaysports criteria
Jan 15th 2024
18
He’s having the best season. *shrug*
Jan 16th 2024
26
i think embiid is only allowed to miss 7 more games
Jan 15th 2024
19
Embiid vs Jokic tonight on TNT
Jan 16th 2024
20
yeah this is a good night of basketball
Jan 16th 2024
23
41, 10, 7, and the win
Jan 16th 2024
27
      Absolutely it was. Tipping the cap.
Jan 17th 2024
30
      Monster performance.
Jan 17th 2024
32
Anyone else finding they don't care about this anymore?
Jan 16th 2024
21
I care more about it than I did the IST
Jan 16th 2024
22
I mean, sure?
Jan 16th 2024
24
We all have opinions...
Jan 16th 2024
25
      This is very funny. I’m not sure you realize why.
Jan 17th 2024
29
           I care about the MVP, you don't, you cared about the IST, I didn't...
Jan 17th 2024
31
Lol
Jan 17th 2024
28
MVP Talk been played since they gave it to nash twice
Jan 17th 2024
33
I'm coming around on Embiid... with one big caveat.
Jan 22nd 2024
34
Let the record show I posted this *before* today’s game, lol.
Jan 22nd 2024
35
      59 through 3 quarters (31 mins played). Might as well let him drop
Jan 22nd 2024
36
Well, Embiid had 70 points tonight
Jan 22nd 2024
37
Embiid is expending a lot of energy in mid winter
Jan 23rd 2024
38

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86574 posts
Fri Jan-05-24 09:58 PM

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1. "Today? 1. Jokic. 2. SGA. 3. Embiid."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-05-24 10:00 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Most of the counting numbers and efficiency numbers are darn close, and their teams' W-L success are more or less even (Nuggets have lost one more but have won two more)... but Jokic has the highest Value Over Replacement Player by a pretty healthy margin. If we're talking about Most Valuable Player... Jokic has provided the most value imo.

The On/Off numbers back this up, too: the Sixers are 10 points per 100 possessions better when Embiid is on. The Thunder are 16.5 points per 100 possessions better when SGA is on. The Nuggets are 21.7 points per 100 possessions better when Jokic is on. And these numbers are factoring in defensive impact. The Nuggets just hinge everything they do on Jokic, and Jokic provides. He'd be my MVP today.

After that, it comes down to SGA and Embiid, and I chose SGA for a couple reasons:

1. I've been more impressed with the Thunder than the Sixers, personally. The Thunder and Sixers have the same record, and the Thunder have played a tougher schedule than the Sixers so far.
2. SGA's played more games than Embiid, which means he's impacted winning over the span of the season more than Embiid has.
3. I think if you're going to win MVP back to back years, you have to be pretty irrefutably the best player in the league (like Jokic was his for his second win imo). Embiid is easily one of the three best players in the league... but he hasn't created enough of a divide that I'd give it to him yet. I'd rather see SGA win his first than Embiid win back-to-back as of this point.

All this having been said, it could still easily go to SGA or Embiid. Giannis still has a good chance, and while it's a stretch imo, I think if Luka can get the Mavs into the top four in the West, especially with how much time Kyrie's missed, he'd be right in the thick of it. But I'd bet on the top three being the three I listed in some order.

Ultimately I don't think Tatum or Edwards stuff the stat sheet to *quite* the level of these other guys-- I think their teams would have to have historically good type seasons to be in the hunt in a real way. Halliburton is less an MVP candidate than he is a First Team All-NBA fifth inclusion type candidate imo-- having a surreal season, but the league is filled with elite stars on top level teams right now. (That said, he *does* have better On/Off impact than Embiid right now, fwiw.)

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Jan-06-24 01:19 AM

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3. "RE: Today? 1. Jokic. 2. SGA. 3. Embiid."
In response to Reply # 1


          


>Ultimately I don't think Tatum or Edwards stuff the stat sheet
>to *quite* the level of these other guys-- I think their teams
>would have to have historically good type seasons to be in the
>hunt in a real way. Halliburton is less an MVP candidate than
>he is a First Team All-NBA fifth inclusion type candidate
>imo-- having a surreal season, but the league is filled with
>elite stars on top level teams right now. (That said, he
>*does* have better On/Off impact than Embiid right now,
>fwiw.)

NBA MVP is not just the “stat sheet” often “the best player on the best team” comes into play

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5285 posts
Sat Jan-06-24 01:49 AM

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4. "So you're saying Jokic got robbed last year"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

best player on best team and shit. Also he probably qualifies as one of the 4 guys this year that could be in the poll. If only the poll creator didn't have a glaring over sight.

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Jan-06-24 01:55 AM

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5. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 4


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86574 posts
Sat Jan-06-24 02:18 AM

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6. "And yet, right today, Jokic is the MVP favorite at DraftKings."
In response to Reply # 3
Sat Jan-06-24 02:19 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

Because if you're the best player on a team 1.5 games back from 1st in the West, they will not give MVP to the best player on the very top team if your stats and impact on winning are measurably higher. (You can buy a Tatum ticket at +3000 and an Ant ticket at +4000.)

Also, if you believe the most important determiner is "best player on best team," I'm interested why you included Halliburton in the poll and not Jokic or Giannis, both of whom are the best players on better teams than the Pacers.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat Jan-06-24 08:50 AM

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8. "RE: And yet, right today, Jokic is the MVP favorite at DraftKings."
In response to Reply # 6


          

>Because if you're the best player on a team 1.5 games back
>from 1st in the West, they will not give MVP to the best
>player on the very top team if your stats and impact on
>winning are measurably higher. (You can buy a Tatum ticket at
>+3000 and an Ant ticket at +4000.)
>
>Also, if you believe the most important determiner is "best
>player on best team," I'm interested why you included
>Halliburton in the poll and not Jokic or Giannis, both of whom
>are the best players on better teams than the Pacers.

Honestly they’re just some names I threw up I didn’t think Jokic was having a great year statistically compared to his other recent seasons and I knew Denver was 3rd in the West, the names I hear most for MVP are Embiid and SGA the rest are filler lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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agentzero
Member since Apr 12th 2007
1903 posts
Sat Jan-06-24 06:09 AM

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7. "i agree with this ranking"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

To people like US, a record is a piece of history. A moment in time.
Most people don't get it.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
84949 posts
Fri Jan-05-24 10:01 PM

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2. "jokic"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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B9
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Sun Jan-07-24 05:28 PM

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9. "Shai"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-07-24 05:28 PM by B9

          

Can’t believe the boards still work.

What’s up, yall.

Thunder w/o Shai would be fun but just a bit better than the Spurs.

  

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Dstl1
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Sun Jan-07-24 05:31 PM

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10. "Yo! What up, Thunder Buddy (c) lol"
In response to Reply # 9


          

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

  

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B9
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Sun Jan-07-24 06:12 PM

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11. "What’s up! "
In response to Reply # 10


          

Following this team and Presti is one of the few things giving me hope in this state. How’s everything around here?

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86574 posts
Tue Jan-09-24 02:09 AM

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12. "Now wait a goddamn minute, lol."
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Jan-09-24 02:09 AM by Frank Longo

  

          

The Thunder without Shai still have Chet Holmgren, Jalen Williams, Josh Giddey, Lu Dort. Cason Wallace would start for the Spurs. Isaiah Joe is just as good a shooter as Doug McDermott, the only shooter on the Spurs-- and Joe's a better all around player. Malaki Branham is 6th on the Spurs in minutes, and Kenrich Williams, Jaylin Williams, and Aaron Wiggins are all better than him imo. And the rotational versatility is terrific-- bad teams have a bunch of unbalanced one-way type dudes, and OKC doesn't have that problem.

If you want to say the Thunder without Shai are roughly a 10-11 seed? Cool, I dig it. And like I said above, I have SGA second in my voting... but a SGA-less Thunder house the Spurs, house the Blazers, win more than the Ja-less Grizzlies, and honestly win more than the Jazz. Too smartly constructed a roster, too much emerging talent.

(But also welcome back to the boards, lol.)

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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guru0509
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13. "welcome back nm"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>Can’t believe the boards still work.
>
>What’s up, yall.
>
>Thunder w/o Shai would be fun but just a bit better than the
>Spurs.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Lach
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Sun Jan-14-24 08:00 PM

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14. "It's now Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sun Jan-14-24 09:34 PM

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15. "First two are certainly 1A and 1B in some order."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I think it's hard to count Embiid out due to the sheer volume of stats... but the Thunder and Nuggets and Celtics are all notably better than the Sixers right now.

Would obviously *love* if Tatum could get there, but he feels more like a First Team All-NBA contender than a realistic MVP contender at this point. Still, if the Celtics finish, like 5-7 games ahead of the Thunder/Nuggets, it's not impossible, I reckon.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sun Jan-14-24 11:48 PM

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16. "Shai is putting up prime Jordan numbers (stat comparison):"
In response to Reply # 14


          

and I mean damn near IDENTICAL to prime Jordan numbers: here's the comparison of Shai's stats this year to Jordan's 1990-91 season, when MJ won MVP an Finals MVP for his first championship:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=jordami01&p1yrfrom=1991&p1yrto=1991&player_id2=gilgesh01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

Overall Stats:

Player | Jordan / Shai
Season | '90-91 / '23-24
Age | 27 / 25
Games | 82 / 37
PTS/G | 31.5 / 31.5
REB/G | 6.0 / 5.9
AST/G | 5.5 / 6.4
STL/G | 2.7 / 2.4
BLK/G | 1.0 / 0.8
FG% | 0.539 / 0.558
3P% | 0.312 / 0.341
FT% | 0.851 / 0.891
eFG% | 0.547 / 0.587


Per game stats:

Player | Jordan / Shai
Season | '90-91 / '23-24
Age | 27 / 25
GM | 82 / 37
MP | 37.0 / 34.5
FG | 12.1 / 11.3
FGA | 22.4 / 20.3
FG% | 0.539 / 0.558
2P | 11.7 / 10.1
2PA | 21.3 / 16.8
2P% | 0.551 / 0.603
3P | 0.4 / 1.2
3PA | 1.1 / 3.5
3P% | 0.312 / 0.341
eFG% | 0.547 / 0.587
FT | 7.0 / 7.7
FTA | 8.2 / 8.6
FT% | 0.851 / 0.891
ORB | 1.4 / 0.8
DRB | 4.6 / 5.0
TRB | 6.0 / 5.9
AST | 5.5 / 6.4
STL | 2.7 / 2.4
BLK | 1.0 / 0.8
TOV | 2.5 / 1.9
PF | 2.8 / 2.5
PTS | 31.5 / 31.5


Advanced Stats:

Player | Jordan / Shai
Season | '90-91 / '23-24
Age | 27 / 25
GM | 82 / 37
MP | 3034 / 1276
PER | 31.6 / 31.5
TS% | 0.605 / 0.654
ORB% | 4.6 / 2.9
TRB% | 9.5 / 9.5
AST% | 25.2 / 30.2
STL% | 3.7 / 3.3
BLK% | 1.7 / 2.1
TOV% | 8.7 / 7.4
USG% | 32.9 / 32.6
OWS | 14.9 / 6.1
DWS | 5.4 / 2.3
WS | 20.3 / 8.4
WS/48 | 0.321 / 0.315
OBPM | 8.9 / 7.6
DBPM | 3.2 / 3.1
BPM | 12.0 / 10.7
VORP | 10.8 / 4.1
VORP/48 | 0.171 / 0.154


Not saying SGA is MJ of course, but it is absolutely uncanny how close those numbers are. Their stats are as close to a mirror image as you can possibly get.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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17. "Embiid if he gets enough games in"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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40thStreetBlack
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18. "Embiid should not win MVP again based on prevalent Okaysports criteria"
In response to Reply # 17


          

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Jan-16-24 10:44 PM

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26. "He’s having the best season. *shrug*"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

But yeah, don’t know if he’ll play enough games.

  

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agentzero
Member since Apr 12th 2007
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Mon Jan-15-24 06:26 AM

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19. "i think embiid is only allowed to miss 7 more games"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon Jan-15-24 06:27 AM by agentzero

  

          

i think he will miss more...



To people like US, a record is a piece of history. A moment in time.
Most people don't get it.

  

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ThaTruth
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20. "Embiid vs Jokic tonight on TNT"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Lach
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23. "yeah this is a good night of basketball"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Can't wait to see it.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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27. "41, 10, 7, and the win"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

That’s an MVP performance.

  

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khn
Member since Jan 20th 2015
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Wed Jan-17-24 12:11 PM

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30. "Absolutely it was. Tipping the cap."
In response to Reply # 27


          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Jan-17-24 01:30 PM

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32. "Monster performance."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I ultimately think if one of the three teams can separate themselves from the other two, that person will win-- but man, they're all *neck and neck* right now, lol. Hard to call.

Again, if I were a betting man, I just think it's really fucking hard to win back to back MVPs unless you're better than everyone else by a noteworthy margin. The narratives will work more in favor of Shai and Jokic if the three of these players are all having monster seasons on teams that are more or less equally great-- whereas the narrative works against you if you're the reigning MVP, generally speaking.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Jan-16-24 04:52 PM

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21. "Anyone else finding they don't care about this anymore?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The MVP convo, while always kind of stupid, has reached the point that it numbs my brain to think about...and that's even before considering the new 65 game requirement.

At this point, if it's Jokic/Embiid/Giannis...I don't care. If we get someone coming from behind to win their first after never even coming close before? Then, yeah...I guess. But right now it's just kind of boring.

That said...because the race is boring, it's pretty obvious the league is in great hands.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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22. "I care more about it than I did the IST"
In response to Reply # 21


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Tue Jan-16-24 06:08 PM

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24. "I mean, sure?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

This isn't a slight at your post, lol.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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25. "We all have opinions..."
In response to Reply # 24


          

>This isn't a slight at your post, lol.

it's just funny when people take the time to reply to something they don't care about lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Ryan M
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Wed Jan-17-24 11:25 AM

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29. "This is very funny. I’m not sure you realize why. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Anyway…it has less to do with this very accurate poll than the MVP discussion itself.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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31. "I care about the MVP, you don't, you cared about the IST, I didn't..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

there's not a lot left to understand.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59077 posts
Wed Jan-17-24 08:12 AM

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28. "Lol"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
84949 posts
Wed Jan-17-24 01:38 PM

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33. "MVP Talk been played since they gave it to nash twice"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86574 posts
Mon Jan-22-24 06:40 PM

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34. "I'm coming around on Embiid... with one big caveat. "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-22-24 06:41 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

I knew he was putting up monster stats... but we're halfway through the season, and he's up to 35-11-6 on 22 shots a game? Playing only 34 minutes a game and putting up those numbers? Those are historical-ass numbers, lol. I think I read somewhere that he's scoring the most points per possession in NBA history. Absolutely bananas.

So I think if he can maintain, even with my reservations above that they don't want to give the MVP to a guy two years in a row if they can help it... then I think the award is his to lose. BUT, and it's a massive caveat... he can only miss something like 7-8 more games. Because if he gets under 65 games, he's not eligible for awards. So the question becomes... do we trust that? He did 66 and 68 the last two years, so maybe he'll get there... but he was under that number each of the five seasons before that. If he turns an ankle, and they've already put themselves in pole position for home court in the playoffs... do you think he'd rush to get back onto the court and risk further injury to qualify for MVP/All-NBA? I genuinely don't know the answer. Maybe?

So yeah, I feel very confident Jokic and Shai will make that cutoff unless something weird happens. With Embiid, every game counts. We'll see if he can stay on the court and keep this historic pace. If he can... then yeah, he's my #1.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86574 posts
Mon Jan-22-24 08:53 PM

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35. "Let the record show I posted this *before* today’s game, lol."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Jesus Christ, he’s absolutely on one right now.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Mignight Maruder
Member since Nov 30th 2003
7705 posts
Mon Jan-22-24 09:01 PM

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36. "59 through 3 quarters (31 mins played). Might as well let him drop "
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

a 70 or 80 piece on Wemby and the Spurs. Just unstoppable right now.

  

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makaveli
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16257 posts
Mon Jan-22-24 09:30 PM

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37. "Well, Embiid had 70 points tonight "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So that's pretty good.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Lach
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44315 posts
Tue Jan-23-24 02:10 PM

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38. "Embiid is expending a lot of energy in mid winter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's going to be interesting to see if he wears down in May. Time will tell. Cuz even the first round is probably going to be a hell of a battle for seeds 3 to 6

  

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