"NBA HOF'ers that would've been greater if injuries hadn't robbed them..."
of a significant portion of their prime...
I know people like Grant Hill come to mind, his college career helped boost him into the HOF even though his stellar NBA career was stopped in his prime. In some ways he was LeBron before Lebron. He still had a solid second half of his career as a role player and was a first ballot HOF'er.
I was recently watching a video were Kobe was saying Tracy McGrady could do everything he could and was taller. There was a time were Kobe vs T-Mac was a legitimate argument and a lot of people were on T-Mac's side. The injuries started coming in his late 20's and he was never the same. He still was a first ballot HOF'er. What's really crazy is T-Mac and Grant Hill were supposed to team up with Tim Duncan in Orlando but Tim Duncan didn't come when Doc Rivers said his wife couldn't fly on the team plane. Talk about what would've been a "super team".
Chris Webber is another guy I think of in this category. He came into the league as an athletic freak. When he played against the 92 Dream Team as a 19y/o on the 92 Select Team Larry Bird said "If that's what's coming into the league its time for me to go!" He came in with first ballot HOF'ers KG and Tim Duncan and was their equal and in some cases better. Multiple injuries early in his career robbed him of a lot of his explosiveness but he still had a great career even though he had to wait a few years to get into the HOF.
2. "Recent guys: Dwight and Kawhi" In response to Reply # 0
To a lesser extent, I guess you can also say Durant - but even accounting for the injuries, his career didn't exactly SUFFER from injuries, he just had less time to stack even more accolades on.
26. "Unfortunately, he won’t be" In response to Reply # 8
He was on the path before the injury.
He recovered to have a long career. But he only made 3 all star teams. He’s rarely played more than 50 games since that major injury. He’s been productive and had some great games and great moments post injury, but nowhere near HOF caliber player beyond those 2-3 seasons early on.
55. "if he latched on with a contender and wins a chip while being" In response to Reply # 26 Fri May-26-23 09:38 PM by RandomFact
the first guy off the bench he's in.
i do think the people voting may have sympathy as people in the know (ie writers, supposedly) understand how dominating he truly was at that position. there's a reason why he's universally loved throughout the league.
24. "and he was always an all star and winning rings. That helped his HOF" In response to Reply # 14
resume if anything.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
27. "Coleman and Kemp too" In response to Reply # 16
Those young PF’s in the early 90s came out so strong. Coleman was never the same once the injuries started piling up after 5-6 years, and he had the irregular heartbeat issue looming throughout the rest of his career. Still remained an effective player because he was so skilled, but the athleticism was gone and couldn’t do it for 70-80 games.
LJ’s back injury took all the explosiveness away. Was still an effective player for awhile - tough defender, improved his shooting range, and adapted the best he could, but that explosiveness was what made him special early on.
Kemp got fat during the lockout and just never recovered really. He had a year or two where he was still pretty good even as a fat guy, but then he faded really quick. He probably had the longest run as a star of those 3…..he really had to fall off hard to not make the HOF - and sadly he did.
38. "An argument could be made" In response to Reply # 35
in regards to how nasty of an offensive player Chris Webber was before his injuries, I'll give you that if you want to compare him being near the caliber of Duncan and Dirk if you want to focus only on the offensive side of the court, but Chris Webber in his prime wasn't close to the defensive presence Tim Duncan was.
The Dirk and Webber comparison is might be fairly close one because Dirk was pretty lacking as a defensive player and Webber had better ball handling and slashing abilities in his prime compared to Dirk, but trying to compare him to Duncan is a losing proposition IMO.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
>in regards to how nasty of an offensive player Chris Webber >was before his injuries, I'll give you that if you want to >compare him being near the caliber of Duncan and Dirk if you >want to focus only on the offensive side of the court, but >Chris Webber in his prime wasn't close to the defensive >presence Tim Duncan was.
Duncan was the better defender but nowhere near the scorer, ballhandler and passer.
>The Dirk and Webber comparison is might be fairly close one >because Dirk was pretty lacking as a defensive player and >Webber had better ball handling and slashing abilities in his >prime compared to Dirk, but trying to compare him to Duncan is >a losing proposition IMO.
No it’s not Webb was still a solid defender and didn’t have to be hid like Dirk. Dirk was just a better shooter.
50. "“Nowhere near the scorer.” Clearly you’re still in denial about D..." In response to Reply # 39
Only in a world of alternative facts would someone believe that garbage. CWebb was an outstanding scorer and had great handles for a big guy. I loved CWebb going back to his Fab 5 days, but he was not seeing Duncan.
Head to head, Duncan averaged more ppg than CWebb. When it mattered Duncan elevated his play. He played in over 250 playoff games from age 21 through 39, averaging just under 21ppg. CWebb played in 80 playoff games from age 20-33, averaging under 19ppg. He averaged 20 ppg or more 4 times, with his high being 24.4. Duncan averaged 20ppg or more 10 times and averaged 24.4 or more 4 times. To say Duncan was a more efficient scorer too. To say he was ‘nowhere near the scorer’ as CWebb is a pretty ridiculous statement to make.
57. "There are reasons why Duncan was first ballot and Webber wasn’t…" In response to Reply # 50
>Only in a world of alternative facts would someone believe >that garbage. CWebb was an outstanding scorer and had great >handles for a big guy. I loved CWebb going back to his Fab 5 >days, but he was not seeing Duncan. > >Head to head, Duncan averaged more ppg than CWebb. When it >mattered Duncan elevated his play. He played in over 250 >playoff games from age 21 through 39, averaging just under >21ppg. CWebb played in 80 playoff games from age 20-33, >averaging under 19ppg. He averaged 20 ppg or more 4 times, >with his high being 24.4. Duncan averaged 20ppg or more 10 >times and averaged 24.4 or more 4 times. To say Duncan was a >more efficient scorer too. To say he was ‘nowhere near the >scorer’ as CWebb is a pretty ridiculous statement to make.
Duncan was obviously better overall but Webber had higher highs and lower lows scoring plus the other offensive categories can’t be disputed I don’t know why people get in their feelings about this lol
58. "Tf are you even talking about lol" In response to Reply # 0
>>all the players from that era that played against him give >>him props > >oh, the college superstar, #1 overall draft pick, Hall of >Famer was good? I'm glad you're here to tell us these things!
42. "Agreed, and add Isiah to that list. " In response to Reply # 23
Injuries got to Zeke at 29 years old for his last couple seasons, and he retired at age 32. If he would have had a few more years in his prime, plus a few years of productivite post-prime, he'd be a bit higher on the all time PG list...
45. "idk man, they had nothing around him" In response to Reply # 42
they missed the playoffs even with him playing the whole season the year before the achilles and the frontcourt was in complete shambles outside of Rodman
if he goes out there and they suck, then how do we think of him?
46. "If we’re rewriting history then who knows. Zeke had a wrist injury" In response to Reply # 45
at 29 that had a big impact. If his prime was extended then at a minimum he has some career stats that would go up, and he’d have already won rings at that point. Who knows, maybe he would have gotten traded to a contender as part of the deloading moves the Pistons were making and has an impact through the 90s…
25. "Oop nvm already mentioned " In response to Reply # 0 Tue May-23-23 06:05 PM by guru0509
>of a significant portion of their prime... > >I know people like Grant Hill come to mind, his college career >helped boost him into the HOF even though his stellar NBA >career was stopped in his prime. In some ways he was LeBron >before Lebron. He still had a solid second half of his career >as a role player and was a first ballot HOF'er. > >I was recently watching a video were Kobe was saying Tracy >McGrady could do everything he could and was taller. There was >a time were Kobe vs T-Mac was a legitimate argument and a lot >of people were on T-Mac's side. The injuries started coming in >his late 20's and he was never the same. He still was a first >ballot HOF'er. What's really crazy is T-Mac and Grant Hill >were supposed to team up with Tim Duncan in Orlando but Tim >Duncan didn't come when Doc Rivers said his wife couldn't fly >on the team plane. Talk about what would've been a "super >team". > >Chris Webber is another guy I think of in this category. He >came into the league as an athletic freak. When he played >against the 92 Dream Team as a 19y/o on the 92 Select Team >Larry Bird said "If that's what's coming into the league its >time for me to go!" He came in with first ballot HOF'ers KG >and Tim Duncan and was their equal and in some cases better. >Multiple injuries early in his career robbed him of a lot of >his explosiveness but he still had a great career even though >he had to wait a few years to get into the HOF. > >Who else?
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
29. "Another "could have been in the HOF": Blake Griffin" In response to Reply # 0
Dude really looked he was going to be an absolute monster for years to come. But he's spent so much of his career dealing with injuries. It's kind of a shame that he's afterthought at age 34. I had no idea that he's on the Celtics right now.
30. "For different reasons, but basically the new Kemp" In response to Reply # 29
Pretty similar careers and career arcs, and even their games - 2 of the best dunkers ever who developed solid perimeter jumpers. In their best years, both had HOF PG’s in their primes feeding them.
33. "A lot of ppl forget he made the all star team even as a Cavalier" In response to Reply # 30
>Pretty similar careers and career arcs, and even their games >- 2 of the best dunkers ever who developed solid perimeter >jumpers. In their best years, both had HOF PG’s in their >primes feeding them.
Post Seattle
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
37. "Greg Oden would have won multiple DPOYS and All Star games " In response to Reply # 0
Yes I know I’m biased
>of a significant portion of their prime... > >I know people like Grant Hill come to mind, his college career >helped boost him into the HOF even though his stellar NBA >career was stopped in his prime. In some ways he was LeBron >before Lebron. He still had a solid second half of his career >as a role player and was a first ballot HOF'er. > >I was recently watching a video were Kobe was saying Tracy >McGrady could do everything he could and was taller. There was >a time were Kobe vs T-Mac was a legitimate argument and a lot >of people were on T-Mac's side. The injuries started coming in >his late 20's and he was never the same. He still was a first >ballot HOF'er. What's really crazy is T-Mac and Grant Hill >were supposed to team up with Tim Duncan in Orlando but Tim >Duncan didn't come when Doc Rivers said his wife couldn't fly >on the team plane. Talk about what would've been a "super >team". > >Chris Webber is another guy I think of in this category. He >came into the league as an athletic freak. When he played >against the 92 Dream Team as a 19y/o on the 92 Select Team >Larry Bird said "If that's what's coming into the league its >time for me to go!" He came in with first ballot HOF'ers KG >and Tim Duncan and was their equal and in some cases better. >Multiple injuries early in his career robbed him of a lot of >his explosiveness but he still had a great career even though >he had to wait a few years to get into the HOF. > >Who else?
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
48. "The sample size for Oden is so small though" In response to Reply # 44
The man really did only play two seasons before being out there three straight years. And while he did show promise during those two seasons, he wasn't like some of the other "didn't/don't quite make the HOF" players like Roy or Penny. Those guys had 4-6 great seasons under the belt before the injuries derailed their careers. It's hard to extrapolate with Oden.
51. "Low key wonder about Nique and the Admiral. " In response to Reply # 0
Not an injury, but Robinson’s military obligations robbed him of at least 2-3 what could’ve been highly productive seasons. Then came the back injury in 96-97, which definitely accelerated his decline in productivity and health. Not sure how much of a difference it makes with him bc we saw his peak in the early-mid 90s - which was incredible - but ultimately not as dominant as the Dream’s, Shaq’s, or Duncan’s. Still, he was insanely well-rounded and dominant in his prime.
‘Nique gets more and more underrated as the years pass on. He had what was always a career ending rupture of his Achilles in early ‘92. Had he not gotten injured, would he have made the Dream Team. I remember being incredibly pissed Laetttner and Mullen made it over him at the time. He still came back and was a prolific scorer. But not quite the same and got bounced around before finishing out his career in Greece. He had some epic battles with Bird’s Celtics in the 80s - despite having a terrible supporting cast.
>Not an injury, but Robinson’s military obligations robbed >him of at least 2-3 what could’ve been highly productive >seasons. Then came the back injury in 96-97, which definitely >accelerated his decline in productivity and health. Not sure >how much of a difference it makes with him bc we saw his peak >in the early-mid 90s - which was incredible - but ultimately >not as dominant as the Dream’s, Shaq’s, or Duncan’s. >Still, he was insanely well-rounded and dominant in his prime. > > >‘Nique gets more and more underrated as the years pass on. >He had what was always a career ending rupture of his Achilles >in early ‘92. Had he not gotten injured, would he have made >the Dream Team. I remember being incredibly pissed Laetttner >and Mullen made it over him at the time. He still came back >and was a prolific scorer. But not quite the same and got >bounced around before finishing out his career in Greece. He >had some epic battles with Bird’s Celtics in the 80s - >despite having a terrible supporting cast.
60. "Arvydas Sabonis got here when his knees were cooked after his Red Army D..." In response to Reply # 0
I’m pretty sure he was Jokic 1.0
>of a significant portion of their prime... > >I know people like Grant Hill come to mind, his college career >helped boost him into the HOF even though his stellar NBA >career was stopped in his prime. In some ways he was LeBron >before Lebron. He still had a solid second half of his career >as a role player and was a first ballot HOF'er. > >I was recently watching a video were Kobe was saying Tracy >McGrady could do everything he could and was taller. There was >a time were Kobe vs T-Mac was a legitimate argument and a lot >of people were on T-Mac's side. The injuries started coming in >his late 20's and he was never the same. He still was a first >ballot HOF'er. What's really crazy is T-Mac and Grant Hill >were supposed to team up with Tim Duncan in Orlando but Tim >Duncan didn't come when Doc Rivers said his wife couldn't fly >on the team plane. Talk about what would've been a "super >team". > >Chris Webber is another guy I think of in this category. He >came into the league as an athletic freak. When he played >against the 92 Dream Team as a 19y/o on the 92 Select Team >Larry Bird said "If that's what's coming into the league its >time for me to go!" He came in with first ballot HOF'ers KG >and Tim Duncan and was their equal and in some cases better. >Multiple injuries early in his career robbed him of a lot of >his explosiveness but he still had a great career even though >he had to wait a few years to get into the HOF. > >Who else?
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
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