Three in a row is just something that basically never happens in the NBA. Larry Bird was the last to do it, then Wilt, then Bill Russell. That's it. Jordan didn't. Magic didn't. Bron didn't. So many of the guys on the literal Top 10 in NBA history didn't do it. If you give Jokic three consecutive MVPs, you are *really* vaulting him up the all-time great board in a way that I doubt most people are comfortable with, given the current lack of playoff success.

So that takes me to Tatum. If the Celtics end the season with the best record in the NBA, it feels like it's Tatum's to lose. Not even saying that he's having a better individual season than Jokic-- I just think it's a strong enough season that's clearly positively impacting winning enough that voters will get behind him.

It's like how Derrick Rose won the MVP, despite everyone knowing Bron was the best player in the NBA that season, because the Bulls finished in first in the NBA and people were tired of giving it to Bron every year, lol. And the voting wasn't close either-- like, Rose BLEW AWAY Bron in the voting.

Or in 2007, how it was pretty clearly Nash's best season to date, better than his last two MVP seasons-- but the Suns only had the second best record, the Mavericks had the first. So Dirk won in, again, relatively easy fashion. (There also may be a bit of a parallel in that people were a little angry that those Nash-led Suns teams hadn't advanced past the WCF, so how could they give three straight MVPs to a guy who hasn't shown he can win the West yet? Even though past postseason success shouldn't play a role in MVP voting, when you're discussing giving a guy historically great honors, I have to think legacy plays a role in voters' minds. And Dirk, like Tatum, had at least won his conference and made the Finals, so perhaps the idea of "he's gone further on the biggest stage," while it shouldn't play a role, could play a role here.)

So if the Nuggets end with the best record in the NBA, and Jokic is averaging a triple double?... then yeah, it'll just be too hard to ignore, I reckon. But if they *can* ignore it, and someone provides them an easy out to vote for someone else, then I think they will.

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If the Celtics fall off a cliff, I don't really know which direction they turn if the Nuggets win the West and Jokic is averaging a triple-double. The voters may just decide "fuck it, it's gotta be him," and then the world can brace itself for all the subsequent think pieces, lol.

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Looking at it from the league's standpoint, Jokic has probably proven himself to the point that back-to-back MVPs doesn't feel egregious. Three of them, though, would be almost impossible to live up to - at least for quite some time. Risking an even worse Nash situation has to scare them away.

I think the league would go with literally any other option who is even somewhat in the ballpark. And they want to crown Luka *real* bad. And if Bron keeps up his current play and the Lakers make the playoffs outright... well, that's a story most can get behind as well.

>Or in 2007, how it was pretty clearly Nash's best season to
>date, better than his last two MVP seasons-- but the Suns only
>had the second best record, the Mavericks had the first. So
>Dirk won in, again, relatively easy fashion. (There also may
>be a bit of a parallel in that people were a little angry that
>those Nash-led Suns teams hadn't advanced past the WCF, so how
>could they give three straight MVPs to a guy who hasn't shown
>he can win the West yet? Even though past postseason success
>shouldn't play a role in MVP voting, when you're discussing
>giving a guy historically great honors, I have to think legacy
>plays a role in voters' minds. And Dirk, like Tatum, had at
>least won his conference and made the Finals, so perhaps the
>idea of "he's gone further on the biggest stage," while it
>shouldn't play a role, could play a role here.)

I think with Nash he didn't really deserve it in 04-05, then the next season he actually had a better season at least statistically so they felt like they had to give it to him

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

on how much sports writers/media members care about the potential flack they'll get for giving Jokic the third straight MVP? In fact, perhaps this speaks to how little I think about the current sports media, but a part of me could see sports writers/media members giving Jokic the MVP *because* it would create a huge story in itself and give media something to blather about.

For the record, I don't care that deeply about the award, so that could play a part in my blasé response above. I care more about post-season play than regular season play.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

him not winning it.

People want to put current players among the all-time greats ignoring facts like how the rules and how they are called are vastly differed.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

And if you give Jokic three consecutive MVPs, you're saying it's his NBA the same way it was Wilt's or Russell's.

So yeah, I kinda *do* think MVP voters care about the flack they'll get. And honestly, because Jokic almost certainly *deserves* it, if it goes to Tatum, there will be plenty of ink on what all of it means regardless, lol.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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In theory, the award should be given to the player that had the best regular season on a contending or at least winning team(Russell Westbrook comes to mind when he won his MVP despite the fact the Thunder weren't all that great). If Jokic does enough to win it for three in a row, then he should get three in a row. The All-Time argument factor shouldn't play a role in the award. In this click-bait immediate response driven media atmosphere, I'd be surprised if the sportswriters/media members have that much perspective to care about Jokic's All-Time status if he gets the award for a third time. Perhaps you hold the NBA awards voters in higher esteem than I do, which we'll have to agree to disagree if that's the case.

One narrative that might help Tatum the MVP is the fact his head coach is probably younger than most of the people in this thread and this is also his first year as a head coach. That's assuming of course that Tatum keeps putting up comparable numbers to Jokic and the Celts remain the first seed in the East.

Like I said in my prior response, perhaps me not caring about the MVP award that deeply is why I don't care that deeply about Jokic winning it three times in a row or not. Post-season basketball gets more of my attention compared to what happens in the regular season, hence why I don't care that much. Steve Nash winning two in a row when he did years back when might also have a small part in me not caring that deeply about the award as well.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

>In theory, the award should be given to the player that had
>the best regular season on a contending or at least winning
>team(Russell Westbrook comes to mind when he won his MVP
>despite the fact the Thunder weren't all that great).

If Russ shouldn't have won it, Jokic shouldn't have either. Hell, Russ had the better case.


Anyone saying the voters wouldn't be hyped for history is being extremely naive.


Especially considering Jokic is white.


Lets be real. The NBA (including media) love a great white hope.

Its why Nash has two MVPs.

Its why we are all supposed to pretend Luka isn't fat, selfish, and lazy.


Etc.


Jokic is an incredible player...but his skin tone is the tie-breaker here. It was last year, when his team wasn't good yet he won MVP.


Now that his team is good? And they can push the "first since Bird" shit?


Jokic definitely has the edge. I'd be shocked if anyone else won, given nothing major changes.


Jokic has two things/tie-breakers on this side. He's white. And the media loves a fucking story (see the watering down of triple doubles, etc)


We all should absolutely brace for the thinkpieces about where Jokic stands, Jordan/Magic/Bron never did this, etc....it is absolutely going to be unbearable.

It's built on the back of a narrative, and it contributes *heavily* to narrative. I actually think the sportswriters/media members would absolutely immediately think of what this means for the Discourse-- this isn't me giving this credit, it's the opposite really, lol.

The MVP is not given to the best player as much as it is to the best player with the best narrative. It's why Bron didn't win like 6-7 in a row, it's why Shaq only won one, etc. I think narrative counts far more than people would openly admit. Which is why I can't imagine it's Jokic-- *unless* the Nuggets win the West on the back of a triple-double and/or the Celtics don't win the East.

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My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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the boxes over the previous years when he won it, which, in a way, invalidates
those years. So what are we doing here?

Hell, Giannis is in that Jordan category where he could win every year because Milwaukee
is always near the top and he is always near the top in stats. Plus he is carrying Milwaukee
with no Middleton, and Holiday being in and out of the lineup.

The problem with Tatum is that he plays with Jaylen Brown who is putting
up close to 30 a game and is one of the best defensive players in the league.
He is just as valuable to the team….It’s the same thing with KD. He plays with Irving.

Even though I dislike Luka, because he is lazy as shit on defense and cries all the time,
he is truly carrying that team.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

>the boxes over the previous years when he won it, which, in a
>way, invalidates
>those years. So what are we doing here?
>
>Hell, Giannis is in that Jordan category where he could win
>every year because Milwaukee
>is always near the top and he is always near the top in stats.
>Plus he is carrying Milwaukee
>with no Middleton, and Holiday being in and out of the lineup.
>
>
>The problem with Tatum is that he plays with Jaylen Brown who
>is putting
>up close to 30 a game and is one of the best defensive players
>in the league.
>He is just as valuable to the team….It’s the same thing
>with KD. He plays with Irving.
>
>Even though I dislike Luka, because he is lazy as shit on
>defense and cries all the time,
>he is truly carrying that team.

I agree Jordan, LeBron and Giannis probably could have and should have 3-peated as MVP.

As far as the Jaylen Brown argument against Tatum people ignore the fact that Tatum balls when Brown isn’t there which is often.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

No way in hell I’m giving a MVP to a player who has a teammate who has similar
averages.

Tatum: 31/8/4, 47pct FG, 1.0 stls
Brown: 27/7/3, 49pct FG, 1.2 stls

No way.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

to himself lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

others better. Murray is the PG for the team and Jokic averages more
assists!

That’s nuts.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

Who?

Like, for real

very interesting

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

I don't think they will do it, but it really could end up making sense from a basketball perspective

it's not just that Jokic is good, but he defies so much convention. I wouldn't ever put him on the same rung as LeBron but he is pretty much as singular.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

I don’t think he’ll win, but I think he’ll be top 5.

.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

He's going to need to grab a top 2 seed. I think that's been part of the issue in the past.

<--- Big Baller World Order

.

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________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Luka may come close to it but I don't see the others reaching 70. That may come into play. Embiid is going to miss at least 20% of the season.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Tho he's been a monster.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpGPuY1aYAIdZ3j?format=jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1626231927283027970

with only about 20 games left in the season and nobody challenging the nuggets for 1st in the west...seems all but inevitable at this point.

its interesting...because at no point in the last 3 seasons would anybody call him the best player in the league. prolly not even top 3. and in their deepest playoff run...he wasnt even the best player on his team.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

If you're the best player on the best team in your conference, then no, you're not stat padding, because your stats lead to wins.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

>If you're the best player on the best team in your
>conference, then no, you're not stat padding, because your
>stats lead to wins.

if you watch Nuggets games he does seem to be seeking those assists late in games passing up open shots to do so

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>>If you're the best player on the best team in your
>>conference, then no, you're not stat padding, because your
>>stats lead to wins.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

when they played head to head.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

but it’s viewed differently depending on if you were born in Serbia, Slovenia or Long Beach

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>but it’s viewed differently depending on if you were born
>in Serbia, Slovenia or Long Beach

especially when the one born in Long Beach admits he does it and there is statistical evidence that he does it:

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2755740&mesg_id=2755740&listing_type=search#2756390

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

I put “stat pad” in quotes originally because you still have to be good to average a triple double multiple seasons, that post you linked is dumb because Russ never said that and Adams rebound’s actually went down in NO.

The players know that’s why Jovic had to basically beg LeBron to not make him be the last starter selected in the ASG

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>The players know that’s why Jovic had to basically beg
>LeBron to not make him be the last starter selected in the
>ASG

>its interesting...because at no point in the last 3 seasons
>would anybody call him the best player in the league. prolly
>not even top 3. and in their deepest playoff run...he wasnt
>even the best player on his team.

*strikes a 45 thumbs up pose*

Highest usage in the NBA— no team was more reliant on one player on offense than the Bucks were on Giannis.

Then add on top of that Giannis is the best defender in the NBA.

Then add on top of that the Bucks were the best team in the NBA.

Then sprinkle in for good measure that their second best player only played 40% of the games this season.

Yeah, I mean… to me, it’s Giannis.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

>Highest usage in the NBA— no team was more reliant on one
>player on offense than the Bucks were on Giannis.
>
>Then add on top of that Giannis is the best defender in the
>NBA.

He led the league in scoring, obviously more efficient from the FT line and 3, and was 8th in blocks and didn’t have a DPOY candidate behind him

>Then add on top of that the Bucks were the best team in the
>NBA.
>
>Then sprinkle in for good measure that their second best
>player only played 40% of the games this season.
>
>Yeah, I mean… to me, it’s Giannis.

Their both good candidates

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

And Milwaukee had a winning record without him, with
Lopez and Holidays production going up.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

A better record than the Bucks had without Giannis.

Just for the record. (Though maybe AllStah is a Jokic voter.)

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My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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he deserves it.

ALL HAIL THE KING of LOSING: LEBRON
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

Has been imo. He's played as many games as Giannis too.

and now hes most likely the mvp.

and tatum got the 2nd highest vote total and nobody mentions him in the mvp race anymore.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

I fuxk with the Joker but he looks like hes getting a parking ticket whenever he gets an award just blank expression

Hopefully he’a back on the court soon

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

On one level, it's a validation of The Process. Although Sam might feel frustrated that his vision was never held faithfully.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

Oh well Joker will have to get a different MVP trophy this year.

>Oh well Joker will have to get a different MVP trophy this
>year.


Meanwhile Giannis and Jokic played more games than East Coast Streetclothes

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

for whatever reason fell off. I don't know if voices got in his head or he just got tired.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

MJ prolly shoulda won it 9 times..

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

Joking obv but he should not have been playing

Edit, still can’t believe they chose to pay Tobias Harris over Jimmy Butler

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

Man, they HAD to keep his ass.

Wilson Chandler
Mike Muscala
Landry Shamet
Philly’s ‘20 protected first
Miami’s ‘21 unprotected first
Detroit’s ‘21 second
Detroit’s ‘23 second

They really thought Tobi was the final piece.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

>Joking obv but he should not have been playing
>
>Edit, still can’t believe they chose to pay Tobias Harris
>over Jimmy Butler

from what recall it wasn’t much of a choice, they traded for Tobias, Jimmy walked because he didn’t like Brett Brown

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Giannis and Jokic more deserving


>>Joking obv but he should not have been playing
>>
>>Edit, still can’t believe they chose to pay Tobias Harris
>>over Jimmy Butler
>
>from what recall it wasn’t much of a choice, they traded for
>Tobias, Jimmy walked because he didn’t like Brett Brown

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

Embiid lead the league in scoring, if Jokic had kept it up averaging the triple double like he did in the first half but he stopped padding because people were calling him out

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

>he stopped padding because people were calling him out

People = You and Perk

Or bc of a hangnail

Or bc his barber nicked him with the razor 🪒

Or bc he had a bad dream that the pudgy Serbian would spank him the way Al horford did

(I’m still shocked at how petrified he looked today , like he shit himself before the game , he’s never gonna make a conference finals but he’s complacent with his pity mvp and the watch harden got him)


>Embiid lead the league in scoring, if Jokic had kept it up
>averaging the triple double like he did in the first half but
>he stopped padding because people were calling him out

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

And a Jokic had an incredible game as well

If they played in Denver , Denver would have won in a close game

But Embid sat it out bc he’s softer than your grandmas oatmeal cookies

A nut kicking cowardly player who shrank in the big moment, threw his teammates under the bus post game despite playing like shit

Edit and he can’t blame Ben Simmons this time

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

> And a Jokic had an incredible game as well
>
>If they played in Denver , Denver would have won in a close
>game
>
>But Embid sat it out bc he’s softer than your grandmas
>oatmeal cookies
>
>A nut kicking cowardly player who shrank in the big moment,
>threw his teammates under the bus post game despite playing
>like shit
>
> Edit and he can’t blame Ben Simmons this time

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Jokic had 24 9 and 8 but most importantly he showed up to play , on the road , in a hostile environment

Your guy ducked bc of a “sore calf muscle” in one of the most blatant acts of cowardice I’ve ever seen from an mvp candidate

Jokic is a better player in every category except defense / blocking shots



>> And a Jokic had an incredible game as well
>>
>>If they played in Denver , Denver would have won in a close
>>game
>>
>>But Embid sat it out bc he’s softer than your grandmas
>>oatmeal cookies
>>
>>A nut kicking cowardly player who shrank in the big moment,
>>threw his teammates under the bus post game despite playing
>>like shit
>>
>> Edit and he can’t blame Ben Simmons this time
>

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

>Jokic is a better player in every category except defense /
>blocking shots

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Joker is WAY smarter, tougher, a better teammate, in addition to being a more skilled basketball player.


I'm still laughing at EMbid's 7 foot dumb ass shootin kobe fadeways against undersized boston defenders


and the post game conference? Yikes, dude showcased what immature clown he is, and how little he cares about anything other than that MVP.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Joker hit an and 1 game winner on Embids dumb ass and got a W too, in case you forgot (EMbid didnt, thats why he skipped the next game in Denver)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzEilNDSh-c


but anyway all that flopping didnt amount to shit in the playoffs, he's stuck at home looking stupid with that "pity me pick me pick me" MVP with no Ben Simmons to pin the blame on


embid last year
"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"

embid this year
"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"

embid next year
"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202301280PHI.html
rack'em!

>Joker hit an and 1 game winner on Embids dumb ass and got a W
>too, in case you forgot (EMbid didnt, thats why he skipped the
>next game in Denver)
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzEilNDSh-c
>
>
>but anyway all that flopping didnt amount to shit in the
>playoffs, he's stuck at home looking stupid with that "pity me
>pick me pick me" MVP with no Ben Simmons to pin the blame on
>
>
>embid last year
>"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i
>gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"
>
>embid this year
>"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i
>gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"
>
>embid next year
>"uhhh you know uhhhh we gotta do better uhhhh you know uhhhh i
>gotta do better uhhhh you know uhh"

how far in the playoffs did Jokic get in his MVP seasons?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

Not a big deal by any measure, unless you're comparing him to Joel Embiid. We're still waiting for him to make that happen once... despite playing with a ridiculous amount of help for several years going now.

Hopefully that answers your question! LMK if there's any other shameful stuff from Embiid that needs unpacking. There's quite a bit to work with right now.