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Subject: "Can an American team beat this international team? " Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-22 12:20 PM

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"Poll question: Can an American team beat this international team? "
Thu May-05-22 12:22 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR_9iQqVgAAraOw?format=jpg&name=large

Saw this going around this morning, thought I'd bring it here.

Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Luka, Bojan.

Definitely a very big team, so not in step with the switchability movement... but obviously this team would utterly destroy inside. My first thought was that spacing could be an issue, but Jokic and Embiid are both so good at mid-range (and both can work the perimeter too, Embiid less than Jokic but both can make outside shots) and everyone is such a good passer there that I don't think there's any stopping that offense.

Defense would obviously be an issue... but most of the USA's best defenders aren't very good perimeter shooters, and I don't think the USA can remotely beat this international team in a battle inside the arc.

The best I can come up with would be, like, Steph, Tatum, KD, healthy AD, and Bam. And even then, defensively, I've no real clue what they do to stop their offense. And I think they'd just play drop coverage with Jokic at the rim and let Giannis and Embiid try to blow up PnR action with their length and relative mobility (if AD and Bam want to shoot pick and pop 3s due to Jokic not switching, I think the international team would be fine with that).

The Americans can pick on Luka and Bojan, for sure, but since one of them would absolutely pick on Steph on the other end, that may not be enough of an advantage to cancel out the sheer size and skill advantage that the international team would have inside the arc on both ends.

And even if you take out one of those bigs and replace him with, like, Kawhi to add more perimeter offense and more defensive versatility... Kawhi can't truly guard, like, three of their players if they get position. If you go all versatility against this international lineup, I think you straight up have to make your game plan "win by shooting a fuckload of 3s." Which, y'know, isn't awful against a team this big... but I don't know.

So the question is two-fold:
1. Do you think that an American team, right today, can beat this lineup 5-on-5 in a 7-game series?
2. Which lineup of American players are you choosing?

Poll result (10 votes)
Team International (2 votes)Vote
Team USA (8 votes)Vote

  

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Can an American team beat this international team?
May 05th 2022
1
So which five are you taking for Team USA?
May 05th 2022
5
Americans would win. The outside shooting would be way better
May 05th 2022
2
... did you watch LeBron play defense this year?
May 05th 2022
4
      He has zero help, but is still a solid defender
May 05th 2022
7
           I think it's fair to question, at age 37 going on 38...
May 05th 2022
8
           You use offense as defense. Euro players like Luka and Jokic
May 05th 2022
9
                Tatum, Ja, Ingram, Ayton, Durant
May 07th 2022
26
           Them footsteps ain't scaring nobody (c) D. Bane
May 06th 2022
23
Shooting + Athleticism vs Physicality + Rebounding
May 05th 2022
3
Steph's definitely the biggest mismatch on both ends.
May 05th 2022
6
3 is worth more than 2
May 05th 2022
10
JJJ would be a very good option
May 05th 2022
12
      If Giannis/Embiid/Jokic are all there, JJJ is fouled out by halftime.
May 05th 2022
14
You'd need a big, athletic, versatile, two way 3pt shooting team so...
May 05th 2022
11
Klay over Booker?
May 05th 2022
13
Heads up: KAT plays for the Dominican Team.
May 05th 2022
15
KAT was born in Edison, NJ...he's eligible. Bump dual citizenship lol
May 06th 2022
17
      He played for the Dominican Team! lol
May 06th 2022
19
      If he’s from Edison he could play for India and Pakistan lol
May 06th 2022
22
I def think Draymond is worth heavy consideration.
May 05th 2022
16
My teams can run, yours can't
May 06th 2022
18
      See, I just disagree with this for the most part, lol.
May 06th 2022
20
           Embid, Jokic, and Luka would be dead tired by the end of
May 06th 2022
21
Klay as in present day Klay Thompson?? Over Booker?? Lmao
May 09th 2022
32
Yeah we hoeing em
May 06th 2022
24
I'll go AD, KD, Bron, Tatum & Steph, we'd run the internationals off the...
May 07th 2022
25
who on earth chooses Bojan over Framz Wagner?
May 07th 2022
27
lol definitely a fair point
May 07th 2022
30
Why is Embiid wearing a French national team jersey?
May 07th 2022
28
Because he's considering playing for France in the 2024 Olympics.
May 07th 2022
29
      NEOCOLONIALISM!!!
May 07th 2022
31

ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Thu May-05-22 12:40 PM

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1. "RE: Can an American team beat this international team? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

KD
Steph
Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Draymond
AD
Bam
Point Gawd
Lebron
Ja

For the most part I wouldnt try to match their bigs. You cant. Those are the best two by a gap-- so Im mostly ok leaving KAT and even BAM out.

A healthy AD is your best option.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-22 01:50 PM

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5. "So which five are you taking for Team USA?"
In response to Reply # 1
Thu May-05-22 01:52 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

(Also KAT is an international player, fwiw.)

If you can't match their bigs, then presumably you're picking at least four perimeter shooters, right?

And does the fact that the average age for that international team is 27 play any role in your selections?

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu May-05-22 12:52 PM

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2. "Americans would win. The outside shooting would be way better"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-05-22 12:56 PM by allStah

          

plus the athleticism.

This lineup would be too fast and athletic, plus defense.

Lebron-Booker-Tatum-KD-Davis would murk.


Lebron would guard Jokic. Davis would guard Embid and Tatum
would guard Giannis ( what he is doing now). You already see what
Booker is doing to Luka.

Jokic and Embid wouldn’t be able to guard lebron/KD/ Davis.
Luka and Bogs are terrible defenders...terrible and slow

Giannis would be the only great defender for them.

Team America more athletic, defensive and skillful shooting.



HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-22 01:48 PM

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4. "... did you watch LeBron play defense this year?"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu May-05-22 01:51 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Like, I know people are still hanging on to the "he can turn the defense on when he wants" thing... but can he turn the defense on against maybe the best offensive player in the NBA today? Someone who's got at least 2 inches and 30 pounds on him? Because I absolutely do not think he can.

That doesn't mean Bron couldn't score on offense on an island against Jokic, but any smart international coach wouldn't let that happen, they'd just play drop coverage and let Bron take outside jumpers over extended hands.

Considering Bron isn't a potent outside shooting threat, you have to really consider him to be a plus defender right today to include him on this team. And I... am not sure that's true.

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allStah
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Thu May-05-22 01:59 PM

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7. "He has zero help, but is still a solid defender "
In response to Reply # 4
Thu May-05-22 02:02 PM by allStah

          

Plus he played center and dropped 30 a game, come on.

He is an auto triple double in that lineup, and he is still a big body.
Who in the hell would guard him on that team other than Giannis?


No way I’m leaving Lebron off this team, and I dislike Lebron.

30 a game on a shit ass team this year.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu May-05-22 02:11 PM

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8. "I think it's fair to question, at age 37 going on 38..."
In response to Reply # 7
Thu May-05-22 02:13 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

a) whether LeBron is a net positive defender now and going forward, and

b) if he's one of the five best players for the USA to use against a specific-matchup like this, considering the best way to beat a stacked and skilled big man team is to have a strong perimeter game and a tough defensive effort.

Bron, for as brilliant as he is at everything else, is an average perimeter shooter at best, and even if you think he's still capable of being a solid defender against elite offensive talent, he's still not one of the top, say, 15-20 defenders that the USA could include on a 5-man roster like this.

And I don't think Bron can guard Jokic. I just don't. I think the number of NBA players who could defend Jokic without help can be counted on... 2 or 3 fingers at most. And Bron's not one of those fingers. On the other end, yes, I don't think Jokic can guard Bron in space, but in the paint, Jokic could deal with Bron just fine, and no international team is going to have Jokic on the perimeter running switches anyway. They'll drop Jokic back and let Giannis and Embiid scramble around with their length to try to help Luka and Bojan in any PnR action.

Which is why I think the best options for Team USA will involve running a series of elite perimeter threats alongside someone like a healthy AD or Bam-- or maybe both-- because if they're going to pack in their defense to maximize their size and length (and protect Luka and Bojan from the inevitable blow-bys), then you have to be able to burn them over the top to force the international team to extend and create some space.

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allStah
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Thu May-05-22 02:56 PM

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9. "You use offense as defense. Euro players like Luka and Jokic"
In response to Reply # 8
Thu May-05-22 02:58 PM by allStah

          

offense turns to crap when you attack them and make them work hard on defense.

Jokic would be forced to defend which would kill his game. We saw that already
with the Lakers against Nuggets in the bubble.

We are seeing that now with Luka. The Suns are offensively attacking him, which
is tiring him out and killing his game.

As great as Luka and Doncic are they can be neutralized by attacking them,
because they aren’t two-way players.

Say want you want about American players, they are still far superior
in being 2-way players and having endurance and great athleticism.

Luka, Jokic and Embid would all be dead tired. Giannis would
be their only 2-way dog.

Lebron can guard Jokic better than Jokic can guard Lebron, and it’s
not even close. That would be the difference. Bam isn’t offensive enough
and he can’t shoot.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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MEAT
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Sat May-07-22 07:43 AM

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26. "Tatum, Ja, Ingram, Ayton, Durant"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I'm countering your big and lumbering with big and range

------
“There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.” -Albert Camus

  

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40thStreetBlack
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23. "Them footsteps ain't scaring nobody (c) D. Bane"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Thu May-05-22 01:26 PM

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3. "Shooting + Athleticism vs Physicality + Rebounding"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most important player on the whole floor would be Steph

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu May-05-22 01:54 PM

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6. "Steph's definitely the biggest mismatch on both ends."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

None of them can remotely guard Steph, and he can't remotely guard any of them. So if he can cook harder on Bojan than Bojan can on Steph-- and I think that's a fair assumption in the majority of games-- then that does give the USA a bit of edge, without question.

I just don't know if that's enough edge to cancel out the domination on the interior on both ends that the international team offers. USA would really have to make 3s at an impressive clip.

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Thu May-05-22 03:55 PM

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10. "3 is worth more than 2"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think a small ball type team with athleticism, playmaking, and shooting would give them fits and might be able to outscore them. Maybe something like:

Curry
Booker
Edwards
Tatum
Capela (or Ayton or maybe J. Jackson)

Now that team of foreigners would score at will and dominate the boards. Not sure they could stop a good small ball team that is rolling though.

Or maybe even play Curry with someone like Morant or even a playmaker like CP3, and drop Booker.

  

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auragin_boi
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Thu May-05-22 04:16 PM

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12. "JJJ would be a very good option"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Him vs Joker or Embiid would be a good matchup. Lead the league in blocks, athletic, can hit the 3 decently. His only issue is foul trouble but yeah. Good suggestion.

____________

  

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Frank Longo
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Thu May-05-22 04:42 PM

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14. "If Giannis/Embiid/Jokic are all there, JJJ is fouled out by halftime."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

lol

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auragin_boi
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Thu May-05-22 04:11 PM

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11. "You'd need a big, athletic, versatile, two way 3pt shooting team so..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


LeBron - Luka
Klay - Bojan
KD - Giannis
AD - Jokic
KAT - Embiid


Inside, we're gonna lose and the Internationals will probably have better ball movement. BUT, KAT is a good 3pt shooter so that pulls one of those bigs, likely Jokic out of the paint and he's gonna get killed all day there. KAT can go heads up with Embiid if necessary down low as well. AD, healthy is gonna slow Joker a little while pressuring him on the other end to make him work. LeBron CAN play D if locked in and would on this team with something to prove. Luka would be a handful but so would LeBron for Luka and I'd bet Luka is in foul trouble first. Klay>>>>Bojan. Easy. Clear cut advantage there. And KD just has to play Giannis to a standstill which I think he's more than capable of.

A secondary lineup:

Kawhi (healthy) - Luka
Tatum - Bojan
KD - Giannis
Draymond - Jokic
Ayton (yeah I know but he went to HS in AZ, it count) - Embiid

Ayton is coming into his own and with Draymond running the show, would get good rim runs and passes to him to neutralize Embiid a little. He also has the size to stay with Embiid a little bit inside. Dray won't stop Joker but as we saw in the last series, he was decent at annoying him and slowing him down a little. Again, KD just needs to neutralize Giannis. Tatum needs to destroy Bojan and I think he could and Kawhi just needs to slow Luka a bit and put lots of pressure on him on offense.

If you give it another 8-18 months, I'd be comfortable replacing Ayton or Kawhi with Evan Mobley. He plays great D already as a rookie. Next season his offensive game should take a leap. Yr 3...shoe in.

Not saying either team is a shoe in to win, but these two teams would have a very good shot at beating the international team in best of 7.

____________

  

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allStah
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Thu May-05-22 04:21 PM

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13. "Klay over Booker? "
In response to Reply # 11


          

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Frank Longo
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15. "Heads up: KAT plays for the Dominican Team."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

He's not eligible here.

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auragin_boi
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17. "KAT was born in Edison, NJ...he's eligible. Bump dual citizenship lol"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

____________

  

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Frank Longo
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19. "He played for the Dominican Team! lol"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

If you played for another country's team in international competition, you're not eligible!

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guru0509
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22. "If he’s from Edison he could play for India and Pakistan lol"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Frank Longo
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16. "I def think Draymond is worth heavy consideration."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

He can't really stop any of these guys 1v1, but he can definitely annoy, and he's just such a consummate teammate on offense. Just a proven "make the stars around you even better" guy, a perfect know-your-role kind of dude.

I only left him off because it gives the international team a break on defense. Like, Jokic can just defend the rim. Drop coverage. Easy. (And Jokic was a *very* good rim protector this season. It's just away from the rim where he found issues.) And if Jokic is at the rim, that allows Embiid and Giannis to be roving disruptors in the mid-range area and the weak side. I think that's their ideal defensive scenario. I agree that finding five guys who are at least capable of shooting 3s is going to be USA's best bet.

And fwiw, I don't think KD can play Giannis to a standstill. KD can definitely cook offensively any given game, but he ain't slowing down Giannis with Jokic on the perimeter and Embiid in the dunker spot. Maybe a healthy AD can deal with Giannis some, we certainly saw that matchup before... but then I just have no clue how you defend *both* Jokic and Embiid. Especially since Bron's strong defensive days may just be done.

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auragin_boi
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Fri May-06-22 05:23 PM

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18. "My teams can run, yours can't"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Yeah, you got those prodding bigs down low and Giannis and everyone else on your team, sans him, is slow as sh!t.

Draymond would push the ball damn near every possession and having 3pt shooters on the team forces at least one of your bigs to the perimeter where they will get killed every single time. Plus Bojan and Luka are ass perimeter defenders.

We're not going to be stupid enough to let ya'll cook in the half court for 48 minutes.

Whole reason I have Dray (and to a lesser extent, Bron) out there is they are big enough to slow down key passer/scorers on your team but athletic enough to push the ball down their throats.

We have to worry about stopping your ball movement and our own half court penetration.

Ya'll have to worry about our fast break, 3pt shooting and athleticism (another thing your team lacks dearly).

I'll have enough size and athleticism to bang down low with your bigs, even if we don't win there, it'll be a battle. You guys don't have the speed to stay with us.

In the end, this will come down to strategy. I think employing the right one would greatly increase our chances against the internationals.

____________

  

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Frank Longo
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Fri May-06-22 08:14 PM

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20. "See, I just disagree with this for the most part, lol. "
In response to Reply # 18


  

          


>I'll have enough size and athleticism to bang down low with
>your bigs, even if we don't win there, it'll be a battle.

Everything else you're saying, I completely agree with, and it's unquestionably a compelling schematic battle.

I just don't think USA has bodies to stop Giannis, Embiid, and Jokic in a halfcourt game. I think that team scores at will in the halfcourt.

You're right that USA will just want to run and gun-- but that's also a higher variance game, imo. And I think it's worth considering if playing the higher variance style will result in a more frequent 7-game series victory.

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allStah
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Fri May-06-22 08:52 PM

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21. "Embid, Jokic, and Luka would be dead tired by the end of"
In response to Reply # 20
Fri May-06-22 08:52 PM by allStah

          

the third. It wouldn’t even be fair. The speed would kill them. Those three
played have serious endurance issues.

The elite speed and skillset of Tatum, KD and Davis would
be too much. Plus Davis and Tatum are ELITE defenders.

And Luka and Bogs wouldn’t stand a chance on defense against Lebron and
Booker.

Your international team has too many weaknesses....

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Sofian_Hadi
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Mon May-09-22 10:39 AM

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32. "Klay as in present day Klay Thompson?? Over Booker?? Lmao"
In response to Reply # 11


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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BrooklynWHAT
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Fri May-06-22 11:51 PM

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24. "Yeah we hoeing em"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-06-22 11:52 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

94 ft of hell on em luka throwing up by halftime out of exhaustion and the rest of em can’t dribble the ball up the court

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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ThaTruth
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Sat May-07-22 06:50 AM

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25. "I'll go AD, KD, Bron, Tatum & Steph, we'd run the internationals off the..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

floor and destroy the individual defensive matchups in the half court creating iso's with the pick and roll. We saw CP3 hunting Luka relentlessly in the 4th quarter of game 2. Part of the reason Jokic is at home is because he's a liability defensively. Same for Bojan, he and other Utah defenders couldn't keep guys on the perimeter kept getting Gobert exploited and in foul trouble.

Defensively we'd hide Steph on the backside like GS does.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
33466 posts
Sat May-07-22 11:20 AM

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27. "who on earth chooses Bojan over Framz Wagner?"
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WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85328 posts
Sat May-07-22 01:56 PM

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30. "lol definitely a fair point"
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If you're going to make a team of Luka and three bigs, the fifth guy should probably be a 3-and-D guy instead of just a 3 guy.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat May-07-22 01:15 PM

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28. "Why is Embiid wearing a French national team jersey?"
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>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR_9iQqVgAAraOw?format=jpg&name=large

Neocolonialism!


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85328 posts
Sat May-07-22 01:56 PM

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29. "Because he's considering playing for France in the 2024 Olympics."
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https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/02/joel-embiid-could-change-nationality-play-french-national-team-report

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat May-07-22 02:08 PM

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31. "NEOCOLONIALISM!!!"
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<----- Long Live The King

  

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