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Subject: "JJ Redick: "Cousy was being guarded by plumbers and firemen."" Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85327 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 12:40 PM

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"JJ Redick: "Cousy was being guarded by plumbers and firemen.""


  

          

https://twitter.com/ComplexSports/status/1516828712821530631?s=20&t=SiYn1KjekV5abjrmdC5gRw

Such an exceptional line. And not at all wrong in the context of the debate.

JJ's just smarter than a lot of these ESPN blowhards. Funnier too. He's got a great career ahead of him in media if he doesn't get fed up with the nonsense, lol.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
That dude is right in line with like 84% of white boomers
Apr 20th 2022
1
That’s because they are.
Apr 20th 2022
4
The "Havlicek stole the ball!" clip is hilarious in retrospect
Apr 20th 2022
9
      That was the skillset of that time.
Apr 20th 2022
20
That was good.
Apr 20th 2022
2
No one cares about JJ Reddick.
Apr 20th 2022
3
A whole bunch of saying something to say nothing.
Apr 20th 2022
5
If you were to send Curry back in time?
Apr 20th 2022
6
      RE: If you were to send Curry back in time?
Apr 20th 2022
8
           It would have been the same as Pistol Pete and Larry Bird
Apr 20th 2022
10
                I did think this through.....
Apr 20th 2022
28
                     No. You didn’t think this through, because you’re talking out
Apr 20th 2022
31
Kenny isn’t a hall of famer and he’s on the best sports show ever.
Apr 20th 2022
12
No one cares about All Stah.
Apr 20th 2022
23
      You would try to use my commentary against me.
Apr 20th 2022
29
           You would try to use my commentary against me.
Apr 21st 2022
49
JJ climbing up chimneys, he wants ALL the the smoke, I love it lol...
Apr 20th 2022
7
Not sure who I remove (probably Kidd or Stockton) but CP3 is there
Apr 20th 2022
13
what puts him ahead of them?
Apr 20th 2022
14
That dude is nuts. ...nuts
Apr 20th 2022
16
      You do know that Paul is number 3 all time in assists right?
Apr 20th 2022
18
      You do realize Frank Gore
Apr 20th 2022
19
           The argument you were making was based on their assist totals
Apr 20th 2022
21
                That was in combination with all their other accomplishments,
Apr 20th 2022
26
      He’s very easily on the same level as Kidd.
Apr 20th 2022
22
           Did you read what you wrote?
Apr 20th 2022
27
                Then Stockton underachieved.
Apr 20th 2022
30
                     Chris Paul is one of the biggest chokers in NBA history,
Apr 20th 2022
32
                          Chris Paul's playoff record:
Apr 20th 2022
34
                               Nice deflection there.
Apr 20th 2022
35
                               Dogg, you're arguing longevity.
Apr 20th 2022
36
                                    Yes. He is similar to Nash, but not
Apr 20th 2022
41
                                         Clippers yes. CP3 arguable.
Apr 20th 2022
42
                               all that and 2018 was his first time getting out of the second round...
Apr 20th 2022
43
                                    KG got past the 2nd round once with Minny - 12 seasons, 1 time
May 06th 2022
75
                                    Sorry, you've just brought context and nuance to an OKS conversation.
May 06th 2022
76
                                    and yet you're still mad that Stern vetoed his trade to the Lakers...
May 07th 2022
77
he really isn't though
Apr 20th 2022
17
      It’s hard to count Steph as a pure PG
Apr 20th 2022
24
RE: JJ climbing up chimneys, he wants ALL the the smoke, I love it lol.....
Apr 20th 2022
15
There's a YMCA bottling up JJ joke in here somewhere...
Apr 21st 2022
47
jj alpha'd the fuck outta them dudes this episode.
Apr 20th 2022
11
Bob Cousy is one of the greatest dribblers, finishers and passers
Apr 20th 2022
25
That's some impeccable defense at 0:40
Apr 20th 2022
33
LMAO!!!!
Apr 20th 2022
37
Bahahahah
Apr 20th 2022
38
LOL
Apr 20th 2022
39
LOL
Apr 20th 2022
40
aaaaand scene*
Apr 21st 2022
44
LMAO
Apr 21st 2022
45
      I'm saying - whole clip looks like slow motion. My mans fell
Apr 21st 2022
46
Shut up.
Apr 21st 2022
48
More clips of the impenetrable defense Cousy faced:
Apr 21st 2022
50
sure but can you imagine Cousy in the ball-palming era??
Apr 21st 2022
51
LMAO at that "screen"...
Apr 21st 2022
53
Max Kellerman had to fall back in the ESPN pecking order
Apr 21st 2022
52
JJ once again catching bodies on First Take, this time about Draymond:
May 04th 2022
54
My goodness...he crushed that...
May 04th 2022
55
Mad Dog is just Will Cain with a more subtle dog whistle
May 04th 2022
56
Here's the full clip. Peep SAS and JJ's body language
May 04th 2022
57
people were in here praising that dude a few weeks ago lol
May 04th 2022
58
      Who? That walking cartoon motherfucker?
May 04th 2022
59
      RE: people were in here praising that dude a few weeks ago lol
May 05th 2022
68
JJ and Dray for Inside when 2 of them retire please.
May 04th 2022
60
That’s a great idea
May 05th 2022
63
he turning into my favorite former duke player.
May 04th 2022
61
i dont see jj lasting long on tv.
May 04th 2022
62
      Yeah - while I'm loving it, I agree with this.
May 05th 2022
64
      He'll be fine on TV
May 06th 2022
71
JJ Reddick deserves better than ESPN, they’ll just Kellerman him event...
May 05th 2022
65
I don't think so. Max was deferential to a fault
May 05th 2022
66
Max never fit and ruined the vibe. JJ adds to it
May 05th 2022
67
      he's too logical / even keeled for SAS & Mad Dog & ruins the shtick
May 05th 2022
69
      I’ve said before I think ESPN messes up when they take guys that…
May 06th 2022
70
           The product isn't great
May 06th 2022
72
           agreed...
May 06th 2022
73
           As a DC native, I gotta love Wilbon and Tony. But you're right
May 06th 2022
74

Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
43107 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 12:51 PM

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1. "That dude is right in line with like 84% of white boomers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just sucking off white, 1950's Celtics players like they're all GOATS with absolutely no regard for the context of that era.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
7158 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 01:14 PM

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4. "That’s because they are."
In response to Reply # 1
Wed Apr-20-22 01:15 PM by allStah

          

1960s muscle cars were the first and greatest of their time. Now we
got new muscle cars with computerized features making them the best
of this era, but the original muscle cars will always be revered as classics.

Bob Cousy is a 1960s muscle car.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12868 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 02:02 PM

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9. "The "Havlicek stole the ball!" clip is hilarious in retrospect "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

dude couldn't even dribble the ball with his non-dominant hand.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
7158 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 03:09 PM

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20. "That was the skillset of that time."
In response to Reply # 9
Wed Apr-20-22 03:17 PM by allStah

          

go see what the long jump use to look like or how passing in football
was before the late 60s.

TVs didn’t have remotes. You had to get up and turn a knob to change
the channel.

Also, the rules didn’t allow for crossing the ball over or shifting the
ball. The rules were more strict. Some would say that the way
players dribble now is cheating. The ball had to constantly dribble with
ZERO pause or hesitation.

https://youtu.be/PDRQ0FYhC0U

You guys don’t know your history for shit.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42257 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 12:59 PM

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2. "That was good. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And it set him off again after he’d come around to admitting Cousy shot 40% too. Hahahah.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 12:59 PM

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3. "No one cares about JJ Reddick."
In response to Reply # 0


          

His points or perceptions are irrelevant, and don’t prove anything.
There just his takes. Period. He isn’t even a hall of famer.

I never judge eras. It’s like when people say we didn’t have the technology
of your time, of course you didn’t, but you had the latest technology of your time.
It’s evolution .

If Cousy existed in this era he would play the way players play now,
and if Curry existed in Cousy’s era he would play like the players of that
era.

Those plumbers and firefighters were the great athletes of their time,
and athletes had to work regular jobs because they weren’t paid handsomely.
That makes them even greater.....

Today’s players couldn’t imagine doing something like that. But a lot of athletes
before the late 70s/ 80s held blue collar jobs in the offseason. Just like athletes
went to war and served in the army.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:26 PM

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5. "A whole bunch of saying something to say nothing. "
In response to Reply # 3
Wed Apr-20-22 01:27 PM by blueeclipse

  

          

This is way off base.

The real argument is about athleticism and talent.

Not about who would have worked a second job or served in the military.

The standards are when were the best athletes ALLOWED TO PLAY.

When did white people allow black athletes to play in mass?

That's when everything changed and that's the only point.

If you send Steph Curry back he would dominate because he's a better athlete. Cousy today would probably be riding the end of the bench or may not even be in the league.

JJ can speak on this all he wants because he played and has a insider perspective. WTF does him not being a HOF have to do with his opinion?

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:41 PM

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6. "If you were to send Curry back in time? "
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Apr-20-22 01:43 PM by allStah

          

This isn’t a Micheal J Fox film. Speak real life.

The athletes of that era had great athleticism for
that era, black or white. Cousy was one of the first basketball magicians doing
insane passes with the ball,and that led to Pistol Pete , which led to Magic Johnson,
which led to Jason Kidd, etc

Black and white players weren’t doing crossovers or switch handed dribbles,
because the skillset didn’t exist yet, same thing with shooting threes, it didn’t exist.

Cousy skillset is based on the era he was born in and so is Curry’s.

Julius jumped high as hell, then Mike came and jumped higher,
and then Vince came and jumped higher, and then Gordon and Zach
came and jumped higher.

It’s called evolution.

Stop with the hypotheticals and science fiction to push a bullshit narrative
and to shit on someone who did something that you couldn’t and can’t do.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:55 PM

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8. "RE: If you were to send Curry back in time? "
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Apr-20-22 01:56 PM by blueeclipse

  

          

You sound salty and sensitive.

My rebuttle is based entirely on your premise of if Curry "existed" back in the day. I didn't say anything about a time machine. I'm just saying Curry as an athlete. You can put whatever stipulations on it you want. Whether he would shoot threes or know how to crossover. Whatever.

Evolution or not we will never know how black players would have dominated the early NBA because they weren't allowed to play in mass.

Putting the best players on the court is part of this "evolution" as well.

We should side eye a lot of these 1940's/50's/60's players and their accomplishments because they weren't playing in a era where the best athletes could play.

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:16 PM

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10. "It would have been the same as Pistol Pete and Larry Bird"
In response to Reply # 8


          

and Jerry West who held their own and then some against black players.

Bob Cousy’s talent was undeniable, and he had no control over who he
played against. And Bill Russell and Wilt were a part of his era. Bill
Russell was his damn teammate, and there were other black players
in the league. Bob did play against and with black players.

You making this into some type of culture war that has nothing to do with the
players.

You make ZERO sense.

Yes, black players should have been allowed to play from the very beginning,
but that has shit to do with Bob Cousy skillset and talent. Bob Cousy spoke out
against racism and befriend his black teammates

You didn’t think this through.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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blueeclipse
Member since Apr 12th 2009
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Wed Apr-20-22 03:57 PM

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28. "I did think this through....."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

You did not.

You decided to try to disrespect JJ Redick for reasons unknown and discredit his opinion which honestly probably matters more than anyone in this thread.

You then tried to make this about defending Bob Cousy against the reality that he didn't play against the most talented players. My issues is not with Cousy. I didn't say one bad word about him.

My issue is with the hypocritical measuring of athletes who played in a non inclusive era.

Out of all the arguments comparing eras......this one to me is the most important.

What JJ Redick said not only applied to the lack of talent and skilled players that Cousy was playing against but the lack of talented skilled black athletes as well.

There's no getting around it. Keep trying to talk around it if you want. It happened. And it is bullshit.

That applies to Bill Russell and Wilt as well. But I guarantee you that they acknowledge it.

There weren't more than 4 black players on any team in the NBA until the mid to late 60's. The Celtics were the first to have 5 in 1963.

Thankfully the ABA came along and blew this up.

Dream with your eyes open.....

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 04:48 PM

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31. "No. You didn’t think this through, because you’re talking out "
In response to Reply # 28
Wed Apr-20-22 04:49 PM by allStah

          

of your ass.

Do you not understand that Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and Elgin Baylor
played during that same era, as well as Chuck Cooper.

Also, similar to MLB in the 20s,30s 40s and 50s, basketball teams would do basketball
tours where they played against black basketball teams. Bob Cousy was a star
in those games!


It’s like when Babe Ruth played against negro league players in
the 20s because he appreciated black players...Bob Cousy did the same
thing.

Know your history before you open your mouth. You’re wrong and JJ Reddick
is wrong.


HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:23 PM

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12. "Kenny isn’t a hall of famer and he’s on the best sports show ever. "
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-22 03:12 PM

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23. "No one cares about All Stah."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

His points or perceptions are irrelevant, and don’t prove
anything.

There just his takes. Period. He isn’t even a professional athlete.


  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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29. "You would try to use my commentary against me."
In response to Reply # 23


          

You’re so original.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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49. "You would try to use my commentary against me."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

You’re so original.

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-20-22 01:47 PM

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7. "JJ climbing up chimneys, he wants ALL the the smoke, I love it lol..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

aside from that back to the convo, who are your top 5 point guards?

I have:

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Zeke
4. Kidd
5. Stockton

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:24 PM

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13. "Not sure who I remove (probably Kidd or Stockton) but CP3 is there"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:25 PM

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14. "what puts him ahead of them?"
In response to Reply # 13


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:38 PM

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16. "That dude is nuts. ...nuts "
In response to Reply # 14
Wed Apr-20-22 02:42 PM by allStah

          

He would remove Stockton or Kidd for underachieving Chris Paul.

Stockton went to the finals twice and is the career leader in assists.

Kidd won a chip and went to three finals and is number 2 in career assists

Paul ain’t even in the same vicinity as anyone in that top 5

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Apr-20-22 02:49 PM

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18. "You do know that Paul is number 3 all time in assists right?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

And that he will likely finish as number 2, right?

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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allStah
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19. "You do realize Frank Gore"
In response to Reply # 18


          

is 3rd on the all time rushing list and gained more yards
than Barry Sanders...does that make him top 5 all time?

Hell No!

So Paul hanging around to pad stats with not titles and only 1
finals appearance means nothing, as well as choking over
and over again.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Hitokiri
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Wed Apr-20-22 03:09 PM

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21. "The argument you were making was based on their assist totals"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

and finals appearances... and they're all very comparable in that regard.
So for you to go from "Stockton is number 1 in assists. Kidd is number 2. Paul (who is number 3), doesn't belong in the conversation" is just really poor logic. That's all.

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
7158 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 03:38 PM

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26. "That was in combination with all their other accomplishments, "
In response to Reply # 21
Wed Apr-20-22 03:38 PM by allStah

          

which is clearly stated.

Translation: Paul hasn’t done or accomplished enough.

And what I was also pointing out is that Stockton/ Kidd are ahead of Paul in numbers,
finals accomplishments, but he would remove them to go with Paul.

Basically, he makes zero sense.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 03:11 PM

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22. "He’s very easily on the same level as Kidd. "
In response to Reply # 16
Wed Apr-20-22 03:13 PM by Ryan M

  

          

The title that Kidd won as the 3rd best player in his twilight is not the separation you think it is.

12x all star
4x first team
5x second team
1x third team
7x first team defense
2x second team defense
5x assists titles
7x steals title
3rd all time in assists
4th all time in steals

Plus a finals appearance and a team primed to win this year…it’s a resume. You can argue CP3s team lost 1-3 series they should have won. That is not underachieving.

Kidd:

10x all star
5x first team
1x second team
4x first team defense
5x second team defense
5x assist titles
6x steals leader
2nd all time assists
2nd all time steals
1 title

And if we’re keeping it a buck? Both those resumes are better than Stocktons, Assist total aside.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-20-22 03:50 PM

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27. "Did you read what you wrote?"
In response to Reply # 22
Wed Apr-20-22 03:53 PM by allStah

          

“Plus a finals appearance and a team primed to win this year…it’s a resume. You can argue CP3s team lost 1-3 series they should have won. That is not underachieving.”

He lost. That’s underachieving and choking.

Kidd was the general of that Dallas team and the leader, Dirk
didn’t win one without him. You would down play it though.




HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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Wed Apr-20-22 04:43 PM

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30. "Then Stockton underachieved."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Anyway.

I hate getting into these arguments as far as rankings go. CP3 is in the discussion for Top 5 in the same way Lebron is in the discussion for top 3. Whether you believe it or not - it's not RIDICULOUS. It's also super subjective, obviously.

But your metrics are...not exactly logical.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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32. "Chris Paul is one of the biggest chokers in NBA history, "
In response to Reply # 30


          


Stockton had an excuse. He ran into Jordan in both title games. Paul has choked
off several times in the 1st round, and there were games where he completely
gave up.

Plus let’s look at Stockton’s iron man history. Availability matters as well.
John Stockton played in 15 seasons where he played all 82 games,
and he played all 82 games in 7 consecutive seasons

Jason Kidd had 10 seasons where he played 80 or more games

Chris Paul only has one season where he played all 82 games.....one season.
and 3 seasons where he played 80 or more games.

Like I said, he isn’t in the same universe as those guys.


HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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34. "Chris Paul's playoff record:"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

2008 vs Dallas - 4-1 Win (NO was favored)
2008 vs Spurs - 3-4 Loss (not sure who was favored here but they both win 56 games)
2009 vs Denver - 1-4 Loss (Denver was favored)
2011 vs Lakers - 2-4 Loss (LAL was favored)
2012 vs Grizzlies - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
2012 vs Spurs - 0-4 Loss (SA was favored)
2013 vs Grizzlies - 2-4 Loss (both teams won 56 games)
2014 vs Warriors - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
2014 vs Spurs - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
2014 vs Rockets - 3-4 Loss (Both won 56 - I think Clips were favored tho)
2016 vs Blazers - 2-4 Loss (Clips were favored)
2017 vs Jazz - 3-4 Loss (both won 51 games)
2018 vs Wolves - 4-1 Win (Houston was favored)
2018 vs Jazz - 4-1 Win (Houston was favored)
2018 vs Warriors - 3-4 Loss (Warriors were favored, but this was a choke even if he didnt play games 6 and 7)
2019 vs Jazz - 4-1 win (Houston was favored)
2019 vs Warriors - 2-4 loss (Warriors were favored)
2020 vs Rockets - 3-4 loss (Houston was favored)

And then his Phoenix career. So - there are 2 or 3 series you can maybe point to that he SHOULD have won, but his "underachieving" status is so beyond exaggerated.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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35. "Nice deflection there."
In response to Reply # 34


          

Just skip right over his lack of availability compared to Kidd and Stockton.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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36. "Dogg, you're arguing longevity."
In response to Reply # 35
Wed Apr-20-22 06:44 PM by Ryan M

  

          

Chris Paul is leading a team in his 17th season to a 1 seed.

He's 36 and is outside the top 50 in games played and yet this is his resume. He's had injuries - absolutely. Similar to Nash in that regard. But...look at the head to head shit. Titles and MVPs (regular season and Finals) ABSOLUTELY matter...but Kidd and Stockton have 1 title and no MVPs between them. CP3 has a similar resume and honestly...I'm not doing the Zeke comparison but his titles outweigh his longevity, clearly.

Oh, and DEFLECTION? Please argue your "one of the biggest chokers in NBA history" theory. I'm dying to know - given I actually came with facts.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
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41. "Yes. He is similar to Nash, but not "
In response to Reply # 36
Wed Apr-20-22 08:55 PM by allStah

          

Stockton or Kidd.

Choker, injury prone, and nut puncher.

Those clippers teams are known as the biggest chokers in NBA history,
but let you re-write the story.

Hell, you even talked about it as a lakers fan during those early exits.

Look at you now.

Fun Fact: Chris Paul is the first player in NBA history to lose not one, not two, not three, but FOUR best-of-seven series in which his team had a ‘2-0’ lead.

Just take the L

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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42. "Clippers yes. CP3 arguable. "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

I’ll let you argue it.

All *i* did was be mad Stern overturned that trade cause Kobe and Chris woulda been amazing

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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ThaTruth
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43. "all that and 2018 was his first time getting out of the second round..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

>2008 vs Dallas - 4-1 Win (NO was favored)
>2008 vs Spurs - 3-4 Loss (not sure who was favored here but
>they both win 56 games)
>2009 vs Denver - 1-4 Loss (Denver was favored)
>2011 vs Lakers - 2-4 Loss (LAL was favored)
>2012 vs Grizzlies - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
>2012 vs Spurs - 0-4 Loss (SA was favored)
>2013 vs Grizzlies - 2-4 Loss (both teams won 56 games)
>2014 vs Warriors - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
>2014 vs Spurs - 4-3 Win (Clips were favored)
>2014 vs Rockets - 3-4 Loss (Both won 56 - I think Clips were
>favored tho)
>2016 vs Blazers - 2-4 Loss (Clips were favored)
>2017 vs Jazz - 3-4 Loss (both won 51 games)
>2018 vs Wolves - 4-1 Win (Houston was favored)
>2018 vs Jazz - 4-1 Win (Houston was favored)
>2018 vs Warriors - 3-4 Loss (Warriors were favored, but this
>was a choke even if he didnt play games 6 and 7)
>2019 vs Jazz - 4-1 win (Houston was favored)
>2019 vs Warriors - 2-4 loss (Warriors were favored)
>2020 vs Rockets - 3-4 loss (Houston was favored)
>
>And then his Phoenix career. So - there are 2 or 3 series you
>can maybe point to that he SHOULD have won, but his
>"underachieving" status is so beyond exaggerated.
>
>

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
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75. "KG got past the 2nd round once with Minny - 12 seasons, 1 time"
In response to Reply # 43
Fri May-06-22 04:44 PM by auragin_boi

  

          

Lost in the first round his first 7 yrs in the league. Made the conference finals, lost, then missed the playoffs for the next 3 yrs.
And he ain't a 6ft point guard.

Then got career revitalization when he was gifted to Boston with Ray Allen.

Sometimes...it ain't the guy that's the reason. Sometimes it's the circumstance or the guys around them (front office, team mates, coaches, etc).

____________

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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76. "Sorry, you've just brought context and nuance to an OKS conversation."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

You're henceforth banned. Sorry.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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40thStreetBlack
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77. "and yet you're still mad that Stern vetoed his trade to the Lakers..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


<----- Long Live The King

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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17. "he really isn't though"
In response to Reply # 13


          


The list doesn't include Nash (who I hated but had a better career), Payton, and non-traditional PGs like AI and Steph if we are going to count them.

Then dudes I never really saw play but deserve consideration like Mo, Walt, Nate, etc.

Hell, I'd hesitate to Paul too far above dudes like Tim Hardaway, KJ, etc. I probably would but its closer then some want to admit.


Paul is nice...but he has been vastly overrated along the way. "Greatest leader in the league" has underperformed/underachieved way too any times.

At the very least it is not a given he is on the list imo

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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24. "It’s hard to count Steph as a pure PG"
In response to Reply # 17
Wed Apr-20-22 03:23 PM by Ryan M

  

          

And same with AI. So i get that.

But his injuries are the underachievement part and that’s not all that debatable. Someone like Harden has absolutely underachieved. It’s hard to say that about CP3 when his teams ran into absolute monsters.

As for Nash - he had a humongous peak but honestly his longevity doesn’t live up to these other names. He also absolutely underachieved more than the others IMO. So yes the MVPs count for a lot but it’s hard to compare to those other numbers and metrics.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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15. "RE: JJ climbing up chimneys, he wants ALL the the smoke, I love it lol....."
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Apr-20-22 02:33 PM by allStah

          

Mine is the same. Slightly different order.

Magic
Kidd
Oscar
Zeke
Stockton.

I got Kidd as the greatest PASSER of all time...from Dallas, Suns, Nets, Knicks, and back to Dallas...no one in the history of the game has as many tandems and trios
that he set up or created.

Mashburn/Jackson
Martin/Jefferson
Jefferson/Vinsanity
Matrix/ I can’t think of the other guy’s name.

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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soulfunk
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47. "There's a YMCA bottling up JJ joke in here somewhere..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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11. "jj alpha'd the fuck outta them dudes this episode."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

jj clearly takes this shit personal and doesnt sugarcoat things.

he borderline chewed out molly at one point lol.

------

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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25. "Bob Cousy is one of the greatest dribblers, finishers and passers"
In response to Reply # 0


          

of all time. He played when you couldn’t palm the ball, or crossover.
You had to really dribble with your hand on TOP of the ball. There were
no hesitations allowed. And he was one of the first little men to finish around and
under the rim through big centers and forwards

If you don’t know your focking history, just say so

https://youtu.be/5QCP6mMMH2Q

HIS NAME IS MASON MOUNT
Bulls | Bears | White Sox | Yankees | Notre Dame | Illinois | Chelsea | Real Madrid

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Wed Apr-20-22 05:25 PM

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33. "That's some impeccable defense at 0:40"
In response to Reply # 25
Wed Apr-20-22 05:29 PM by Oak27

  

          

I think I see dude's pipe cutters fall out of his shorts.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Apr-20-22 06:44 PM

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37. "LMAO!!!!"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
4379 posts
Wed Apr-20-22 06:53 PM

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38. "Bahahahah"
In response to Reply # 33


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Apr-20-22 06:53 PM

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39. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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soulfunk
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40. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6154 posts
Thu Apr-21-22 08:56 AM

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44. "aaaaand scene*"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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45. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

i saw all the lolz first then saw the 40 sec. mark. still made me bust out

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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soulfunk
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46. "I'm saying - whole clip looks like slow motion. My mans fell"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

down in half speed, grasped at Cousy's ankle, slowly got up, and still had time to make a decent play on the ball before Cousy made the pass...

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu Apr-21-22 12:39 PM

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48. "Shut up."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Thu Apr-21-22 12:57 PM

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50. "More clips of the impenetrable defense Cousy faced:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/Pokiemane/status/1516942048242417671?s=20&t=uxlPOQGSARB0LeaBFMYxDg

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
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Thu Apr-21-22 01:00 PM

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51. "sure but can you imagine Cousy in the ball-palming era??"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

  

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soulfunk
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53. "LMAO at that "screen"..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>https://twitter.com/Pokiemane/status/1516942048242417671?s=20&t=uxlPOQGSARB0LeaBFMYxDg

  

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Numba_33
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52. "Max Kellerman had to fall back in the ESPN pecking order"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>JJ's just smarter than a lot of these ESPN blowhards. Funnier
>too. He's got a great career ahead of him in media if he
>doesn't get fed up with the nonsense, lol.

because he rubbed Screaming A the wrong way if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if being smarter is necessarily a good thing in terms of JJ wanting to carve a long term lane for himself at ESPN.

Based on the Youtube clips where he'd going NBA player interviews for his podcast, that seems like a better, more nuanced, and meaningful lane than being just another sullen screaming/talking head on ESPN. Hopefully he'll carve a non-ESPN lane for himself rather than going on First Take is having to bark out his points in the rare silent spaces Screaming A and Madd Dogg will allow him to speak.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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54. "JJ once again catching bodies on First Take, this time about Draymond:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/thedloading_/status/1521874322037518336?s=20&t=TrwOmdA6D1QAtd2t7Kig_w

First Take's twitter account never tweets out the clips Redick goes viral for, lmao. They stay tweeting out SAS and Perk clips. They know JJ's so far above the level of the usual discourse on that show. Only a matter of time before they stop letting him on.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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soulfunk
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55. "My goodness...he crushed that..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

And lol @ "50 million fans who have been watching basketball for 60 years"

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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56. "Mad Dog is just Will Cain with a more subtle dog whistle"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

He speaks for boomers and mediocre, envious, spiteful white men, and little else

The fact that he had the audacity to say this has nothing to do with race was hilariously in the nose, because that’s exactly how it works with those people. They dance around the edges and avoid the key phrases- but the sentiment is there.

Just like the shit about Cousy. It’s why those guys love Bird so much- because he was a white dude in a modern era dominated by Black men, who was so brash and so good that he could talk crazy shit and back it up against those Black men Bird had the goods against a remarkable generation of athletes, in a way that They inly wish guys like Cousy could, but the kicker here is, he talked a *lot* of shit.

Never once have a I heard one of MD’s base of white boomers say Larry Legend should tone it down.

JJ rightly called out the undertones of that shit. It’s fun to watch MD get chewed up by someone who should be one of his own, just like Max used to eat up Will.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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57. "Here's the full clip. Peep SAS and JJ's body language"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

The second that piece of shit Mad Dog- and jesus, people with cornball names like that still pop?- but check the body language and facial expression of both SAS and JJ when he starts that bullshit.

Later, SAS tells MD that Dray is being unfairly crucified by the likes of him (MD), and MD says, "what, I can't have an opinion?"

That's all it takes for this fucking buffoon to feel attacked?

  

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ThaTruth
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58. "people were in here praising that dude a few weeks ago lol"
In response to Reply # 57


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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59. "Who? That walking cartoon motherfucker?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

He's what you get if Nick Dipalo had decided to be a hack sports talk radio guy instead of a hack standup comic.

  

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ThaTruth
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68. "RE: people were in here praising that dude a few weeks ago lol"
In response to Reply # 58


          

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2746101&mesg_id=2746101&listing_type=search#2758775

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
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60. "JJ and Dray for Inside when 2 of them retire please. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
17598 posts
Thu May-05-22 10:27 AM

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63. "That’s a great idea"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

And just then two of them with a straight man to keep the show moving. A lean 3 person crew. It would be really good.

  

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poetx
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Wed May-04-22 10:19 PM

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61. "he turning into my favorite former duke player. "
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

i mean, the list is grant hill and zion and jj. that's pretty much it.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed May-04-22 10:34 PM

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62. "i dont see jj lasting long on tv."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

hes just head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of knowledge and insight and he has very little tolerance for the passive ignorance you have to entertain on these debate shows to make other people come off as near-equally credible authorities on the subject.

you gotta be willing to laugh off a lot of dumb shit and treat wrong takes like valid opinions worthy of level headed challenges. you can tell he struggles to play that game tho. dude be getting red, rolling his eyes, taking shit personal, etc.

its hard for him to hide his disgust at times and not come off as looking down on these folks. i seen him almost be about to light up malika andrews once lol.

------

  

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soulfunk
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Thu May-05-22 12:20 PM

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64. "Yeah - while I'm loving it, I agree with this."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Only a matter of time because ESPN decides he's a bit too real with it.

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4266 posts
Fri May-06-22 08:54 AM

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71. "He'll be fine on TV"
In response to Reply # 62


          

just not on the yelling shows

  

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guru0509
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Thu May-05-22 08:05 PM

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65. "JJ Reddick deserves better than ESPN, they’ll just Kellerman him event..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          




>https://twitter.com/ComplexSports/status/1516828712821530631?s=20&t=SiYn1KjekV5abjrmdC5gRw
>
>Such an exceptional line. And not at all wrong in the context
>of the debate.
>
>JJ's just smarter than a lot of these ESPN blowhards. Funnier
>too. He's got a great career ahead of him in media if he
>doesn't get fed up with the nonsense, lol.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Thu May-05-22 09:12 PM

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66. "I don't think so. Max was deferential to a fault"
In response to Reply # 65
Thu May-05-22 09:12 PM by Cold Truth

  

          

JJ was an athlete, who competed at an elite collegiate level, followed by a respectable pro career as an important piece on a couple of contending teams.

As far as I can tell, his peers respect him.

All that to say, he has a backbone and his tone in situations show that while he's holding back a few degrees worth of heat, he's not here for the fuck shit.

So it's possible, but he comes across like the type to stand up and make you knock him down rather than roll over.

I like Max, and he very often had insightful points that relied heavily on contextual elements to make his points, but he's too jovial and was a bit of a pushover.

JJ has a competitive dog in him that Max doesn't. And while he wasn't a champion or an all star, he had a career that you can't exactly shit on, so he can speak with a fair amount of authority.

I just don't see him going out like Max.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
82941 posts
Thu May-05-22 09:16 PM

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67. "Max never fit and ruined the vibe. JJ adds to it"
In response to Reply # 65
Thu May-05-22 09:17 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

They just gotta tune him up a bit on the show business aspect of it cause he takes it too seriously and gets angry.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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guru0509
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Thu May-05-22 11:09 PM

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69. "he's too logical / even keeled for SAS & Mad Dog & ruins the shtick"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

...that they're trying to push (two loud animated guys yelling back and forth like those two Muppets that always argue...I'm forgetting their names and don't feel like googling)

Mad Dog doing his best Laura Ingraham impression with that "shut up and dribble bit" comment about Draymond was cringe though.

>They just gotta tune him up a bit on the show business aspect
>of it cause he takes it too seriously and gets angry.

Agreed

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-06-22 07:54 AM

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70. "I’ve said before I think ESPN messes up when they take guys that…"
In response to Reply # 67


          

specialize in one sport and try to present them as all sports experts and they just sound like a loudmouth at the bar.

Max is a boxing guy and sounds foolish when he talks about any other sport.

Stephen A is a basketball guy that sounds foolish when he talks about any other sport.

They try to balance it out now with separate shows and rotation sport specific co-hosts but it’s still weird.

I think the whole sportswriter yelling their opinion thing is getting played anyway. Even Wilbon and Kornheiser are annoying to me and I used to love those guys now they just come off as old men yelling at clouds.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Ashy Achilles
Member since Sep 22nd 2005
4266 posts
Fri May-06-22 09:43 AM

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72. "The product isn't great"
In response to Reply # 70


          

but somebody is watching considering how much they are paying SAS

  

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ThaTruth
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Fri May-06-22 10:35 AM

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73. "agreed..."
In response to Reply # 72


          

>but somebody is watching considering how much they are paying
>SAS

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10698 posts
Fri May-06-22 11:52 AM

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74. "As a DC native, I gotta love Wilbon and Tony. But you're right"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

The two of them are definitely Statler and Waldorf at this point, and that's fine. They were like that when George Michael had his show (RIP to the legend)

As for the ESPN personalities, you're 1000% right. Max knows an insane amount of boxing, whether he's a good TV personality or not. For sports in general, he's not good. Never has been, never will be.

SAS definitely knows his wheelhouse, and sounds foolish once the NBA playoffs are done. But he's a brand now, so somebody is listening (not me). Honestly, Shannon kinda has a similar trajectory, but it feels he does a bit more work to get knowledgeable on things (or he's just a better fit with Skip).

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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